DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Frye Traded #2

When you talk QB's that he "brought in," are you referring to Brady Quinn as well?


Anybody talking about getting rid of Savage is crazy.

He's gutted the team and increased the talent level 3 fold from what it was when he got here. I don't remember the best free agents in the league lining up to come to Cleveland prior to him coming.

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This is nothing but a low class railroading and an attempt to deflect the blame. Charlie Frye was made a scapegoat for the incompetence of the entire organization. This was a classless act. There should be other heads roll too. RAC's head should be in the guillotine if the wins don't come immediately.Sorry, but this is the harshest criticism I've ever had of the Browns in my 52 years.

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I'm with you. This is a low down move.

I liked Frye, but agree he was not going to make it as a starter. I didn't really believe that until Sunday. But to now come out and act as if Anderson, all of a sudden, is a better option, which is how he's phrasing it, is flat out bull.

If the two were so close that a coin flip was needed to see who starts, why not trade one if someone wanted him early in camp, so they have a chance of making another team or a chance to compete for playing time.

I hope Frye gets to develop under Holgren, I don't know how much he can improve in reality, but he gave his all for this organization, and they are crapping on him now.

I hope DA sees what is coming. Quinn will be playing very shortly, and DA will be gone at the end of the year. He is now the punching bag for the short term.

I pray that Quinn is ready to play soon, because it is in the cards.

I've always been behind RAC, and to tell you the truth I've hated the RAC must go crowd, but after seeing the ill prepared team that showed up Sunday, and the nonchalant way RAC is handling it, I am reconsidering.

I feel the organization again is putting the blame on one player, as they did with Couch and others. Savage has lost a little of my respect, and it hurts me to say that.

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He's gutted the team and increased the talent level 3 fold from what it was when he got here. I don't remember the best free agents in the league lining up to come to Cleveland prior to him coming.

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The talent level has increased? After Sunday, I'm not so sure about that. I watched Eason, who we cut playing a lot Sunday for Pittsburgh, a team supposedly chock full of talent. Last night I watched Myers play a very good game for Cinci. Faine is a team captain and the anchor for the Saints Oline. I'm now starting to question some of the moves made and wondering if the level of talent has really been upgraded, or just replaced.

Where did the organization put the blame on one player? They're using Frye as a scapegoat someone else said.

Show me where the hell the organization blamed Frye for our woes. Sorry, but people who are coming up with these asenine assumptions and assessments make no sense to me at all.

It's really a matter of simplicity. We draft Quinn. Quinn is the future face of our franchise. The franchise QB we all hope for. The kid, even after a holdout, has caught on quicker than expected. Both our QB's vying for the starting spot until Quinn was ready hadn't impressed. So, if the organization feels they can get something in return for one of them, they will pull the trigger and make the deal, Which is exactly what they did.

Where the hell are you people coming up with this 'blaming Charlie' crap from? He would have had pretty much no use to this team in the near future had he been here, and Anderson can probably back Brady up as well as Charlie can. The kid is not a leader, that is obvious. He probably wasn't the smartest QB in the world. So what good would it have done to keep him?

I think the writing was pretty much on the wall after Sunday's game.

I keep going back to last years, throw the ball in 3.2 seconds discussion. This year, Frye did not have the internal clock, his direction was to read the progressions and throw the ball, do not scramble to make plays.

This took away one of Fryes major advantages, the ability to be mobile and make something out of nothing with his mobility. I will draw the analogy to Garcia, where the plays do not mesh with the talent of the individuals.

I personally thought that Frye was a better QB than Anderson, however if the measure of the QB discounts/discourages mobility as part of the overall make-up, you are left with Anderson as the interim starter.

Anderson wont have the ability to demonstrate his ability, he is keeping the seat warm until Quinn is ready.

These last two posts were as insightful as most on here today.

I actually really like DA.....not as a starter...but I would love to have him as the Steelers # 3

HACK

j/k...

hopefully this trade doesnt clear the way for Ed Reed to knock Anderson out cold come our game against the Ravens... He looked like a beast last night against the Bengals..

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This took away one of Fryes major advantages, the ability to be mobile and make something out of nothing with his mobility. I will draw the analogy to Garcia, where the plays do not mesh with the talent of the individuals.

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Right here folks, you have one of the most sensible comments on this board.

It's apparent (and maybe even obvious to some) that Chud's O is designed to make use of the prototypical NFL QB... and Chaz wasn't ever gonna be that.

I suspect that a good percentage of Frye's poor performance Sunday was due to him trying to be what Chud/Sherer wanted... instead of doing what he was good at. There's also no guarantee that the results would have been any better if Charlie HAD try to play "his game," since the blocking schemes weren't set up for a scrambler.

I'm going to keep hoping for the best, where this kid is concerned, but I think his days were numbered even before the stench of last season had time to dissipate from CBS. Besides, we just spent 3 years refitting round pegs for round holes all over the team... why keep a square one at the most influential position?

I am not surprized that Frye was traded to a team that employs the WCO. It makes a lot of sense.

Seneca Wallace has similar abilities as Frye. I think that Frye has to potential to be a better passer than Seneca.

I would not be surprised if Frye were to re-emerge as a Quarterback in this type of system.

Thanks for the complements.

Just trying to make sense of this situation.

I think your question has been answered by others.

Better, is in the context of what Chud believes are important qualities for a QB, in the system that is to be run by the Browns in the future.

What exactly was it that Frye was good at? Patting the ball? 'Cause he did a damn good job of that.

The only thing that I saw of Frye that I liked was his ability to make plays on the move. Rolling him out was basically the only time he did something. But even then he didn't always make the right throws or the right decisions. And you can't deny the fact that he really made some bone-headed decisions in games. No coach or offensive system is to blame for that.

It took Holmgren 4 years to develop Hasselback into a functional QB. The documentation of this has been well cronicled.

Frye is now in a better situation for his skill set.

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Romeo wanted Frye... experience counts with him.

Romeo over ruled his staff.

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Or was it Savage who stepped in?

Just clicking on your reply...sorry if I'm duplicating somebodies opinion and also if I'm not agreeing with some...I pretty much stopped reading all the post as they got pretty tit for tat on Fans of Frye and them that aren't.

First off and foremost...I'm a fan of the Browns - I always liked Frye but he burnt out. I know it was just 2 minutes of football but it was the worst I ever saw him play. What Kosar, Savage, RAC and me for that matter saw in Frye in the past...was not there.

It might come back for him in the future. But the future for us is Brady Quinn.
I've said all along that we were going to trade one of our QBs. I know we didn't want to trade Frye cause we envisioned him as the Wally Pipp for our Lou Gehrig.

If we kept DA I thought Frye would be traded after he proved himself some what as a starter. Our return could have been more than our investment.

DA I never saw him getting more than a 6th rounder. But if we wanted to keep Dorsey I thought that was a possibility.

As it turns out - Frye -- literally fried out. He just didn't have that competitive fire and his natural talents sure couldn't carry him - his whole game is that fire. Maybe it was put out when we drafted Quinn...possibly it was.

DA - he is what he is. Very inconsistant. Very streaking. At least he has good streaks with the bad. He made some beautiful passes on Sunday...perfect touch over the LBs and into a tiny window between CB n Safety. And then there were wide open WRs 15 yds down field and he would throw a perfect spiral...to the worms. Thats DA. If he keeps those bad throws going to the worms and not to our opponents - we have a shot at winning some games with him.

Quinn - by my estimations (derived by listening to others meaning ex-GMs or coaches) BQ can catch up from missed training camp about game 4. So thats the soonest I think we would see BQ named as the starter. Now DA simply burns out which I doubt then it could be sooner. I hate using the "I" word but also DA does not appear to be the most bendable force out there - we could see BQ in for a relief spot as DA might get dinged.

But I'm pretty sure unless DA gets hot and on a winning streak - we will see BQ at the bye week.

Sorry to see Frye go - I'd feel a little better if we got some 6th round steals...but quite frankly we've done better with our 7th round picks so far...lol

He's going to a perfect situation for him...WCO - great QB teacher in Holmgren.

With us...ever since April its been all about BQ and what is the best situation for him - cause he is the Browns future.

The team said they wanted to see frye with an upgraded oline and a rb. I guess it didnt take too long to say it was him all along.

You know, I had been saying that all off season, and I truly think that Frye is a capable QB, obviously, the Seahawks do too.

IMO, we rushed Frye in too early, and without enough pieces in place for him to succeed--and he eventually faultered. This first game against the Steelers--I was hoping Frye would play like a guy desperate to win---instead he played like a guy trying hard not to make a mistake. I think Frye's constant double clutching and his reluctance to throw the ball, is a surefire sign that the kids confidence has been shot all too hell. He no longer had what was necessary to win---and that is confidence in yourself to make the throw. I think his confidence took a hit when he was thrown in the fire last year--and the drafting of BQ this off season. I truly wish him luck in Seattle, and I hope he can get back the confidence that he once had---and starts to get back to making a decision and going with it---In the NFL you don't have time to make the sure throw every time. You have to be confident in your ability to put the ball where only your guy can get it---and Frye showed he didn't have this any longer.

When he first started for Dilfer, it seemed that he and Edwards had some chemistry and he made his decisions faster---but the next year, he eventually lost confidence and started holding the ball longer and longer--afraid to make the big mistake.

J/C

First let me say this....

Good Luck to you Charlie Frye. I was one of your harshest critics and I have taken quite a bit of grief for it. It is well known that I did not think much of you as a football player....But I have NEVER questioned your desire, your courage, or your character. You came into a situation that you did not have the means to correct. And you worked harder than anyone in order to do just that. As a person you deserve the chance to sit back for a few years and get tutored and comfortable in a systenm that can better take advantage of your particular skills. In all honesty I really don't think you will have a great career as an NFL QB...But as a person you have my utmost respect. And I hope you prove me wrong as a QB. Good Luck Charlie Frye.




Well at least it isn't boring!!!!

You know this all would have been completely avoided if one of those two (CF or DA) would have stepped up and clearly won the QB competition.

As far as I can tell this is what happened.

We only have so many picks in the draft to fix things. The FA QB's were not much of an option at the prices being asked. (Or the QB did not want to come to Cleveland) So when it came time for the draft, we made the decision to take Thomas over Quinn. I think they thought quite heavily about QB. QB was a definite need in their eyes. But OLine and the LT spot in particular was possibly a Bigger Need and Safer Pick. So we decided right then and there that we will take our lumps this year at QB and we take Thomas.

Then something unexpected happens. Most notably, Miami takes Ted Ginn. Minnesota was a possibility...but they were investing heavily in Jackson...So while a suprise they did not take Quinn ....it was not a very big one. The Browns see their shot and they go for it. It was said many times by them that they would have had to use next years #1 pick on QB...not RB or WR or DL or anything else....They continually said QB...and that plus the fact that they had been trying to shop our 2 QB's around tells me that the believed QB was a position of great need.....

NOW...we have drafted our future QB...But there are 2 problems with this.

#1.....He is a rookie and a large investment. We can't afford to ruin his development. The priority at the QB position for the Browns is now the development of Brady Quinn.

#2.....He is a high candidate for a hold out. It was widely known that the Browns were burning up the phone lines at about pick 10. Meaning they were willing to take him at that spot. It is also known that Brady was very high on our board. Lastly Tom Condon was his agent and Tom is noted as a tough nut to crack in getting his QB's signed....

So where does that leave the Browns....with Charlie, Derek, and Ken. They do this so they can develop Brady separately on his own course. They know Brady won't be in camp on time to seriously challenge the starters. So we are left with the other 3. Ken has one use and one use only. And that is to be the mentor. The other 2 would have to be candidates for the position of Babysitter of the QB Spot Till Brady is Ready, better known as BQBSTBR(yes that is an official position in football ). Ideally we can have Brady in the wings with Ken mentoring him and Charlie or Derek at the helm temporarily.

There was only one problem to this.....who do we keep????

Derek or Charlie......

Both had positives and both had flaws.

Charlie's positives were his leadership, his toughness and his fight. His negatives were his indecisiveness, and his physical skills.

Derek's positives are his quick decisions, his strong arm, and his ability to read prior to the snap. His negatives are his quick decisions, his inaccurate arm, and his post snap reads....lol

Neither are clearly better than the other. So then comes the brilliant plan....Lets have a QB Competition!!!!!!

Unfortunately for us....nobody won....

This is why Ken Dorsey was let go. Because nobody decided to step up and definitively say "I am better than you". If that would have happened in the preseason...then the loser would have been let go and Dorsey would have stayed on. But that didn't happen. So the Browns, with no clear #1...decided to hedge their bets and stick with both #2's. God forbid one of these guys were to go down and Brady be forced to play too soon. Remember....Brady's development is priority #1.

So here we are...we have our QB competition. Where the Media that keeps asking the same questions over and over that I think Romeo had enough of it and did the crazy coin flip thingy....Because remember it doesn't matter who wins the QB spot because they are just playing for the BQBSTBR (see I told you it was a position...LOL) Brady's development is priority #1

Throughout this entire process, Savage is keeping an ear to the ground about the marketablilty of either QB....He would not be doing his job if he didn't....

So then comes Pittsburgh. Charlie Frye gets the start as he was more consistant than Derek in the preseason games. He starts by default. In the mind of the Cleveland Browns....the competition is still going. I think they had it in their minds that as soon as one distanced themself from the other they can go and get Dorsey back.

Charlie goes out and lays the biggest bomb we have ever seen. His negatives were exploited and made public to the world....If you have children about...cover their eyes....Derek goes in and does not do much better...but the one thing he was able to do that Charlie wasn't was get rid of the ball and force Pitt to ease up on their pressure some. And he was able to move the ball better....albeit not by much. I think this regular season test spoke volumes for the FO and coaching staff. They knew the book on both of their QB's better than their opponants. But they had to give each guy a chance to improve on those weaknesses....Charlie was having too many problems and had to be pulled. Derek moved the team...not well....not greatly...but much better than Charlie.

So in the minds of the FO and Coaches...I think they found their winner....it may have been by default.....It may have been because there was more interest around the league for Charlie....whatever it was...they decided that Brady could handle the jump to #2 even if it was sooner than they might hav ewanted because of Brady's holdout. And they decided that Derek getting the ball out quicker was a better option than Charlie's indecisiveness....especially combined with the better offers for Charlie....

That is my take. Now granted...like the rest of you, I am making suppositions based on the little data we have. I am inferring a few things, but it is based more on the actions taken and not by outright guessing.....But I think that is what happened. Andfrankly, they might have made a few bad decisions in the long run...but I think at the time...the were probably the best decisions they could have made...so you really won't find me berating them about it....

just clicking
Good Luck Charlie Frye. I Hope you do well in Seattle. You were given a raw deal here in Cleveland and I do think you have what it takes to be a starter in the NFL. I will miss you but I love my BROWNS (even though sometimes i wonder why) so I guess I I'll have to move on to the Quinn era.
Signed:
one of your last loyal fans.

Assinine assumption? Last time I heard football was a team sport. Frye didn't drop any passes, leave Santonio Holmes uncovered, mis-handle any long snaps, make any poor coaching decisions, blow any draft picks, etc. Do you get my point now? Until now Frye has been the only one to pay the price for a TEAM FAILURE. As for getting something of value for him now?

What is the chance of any of our future 6th round draft picks even making the team? What is Phil's track record on that?

If you are going to make the case for addition by subtraction, then there needs to be some other subtractions too. Can you honestly say that the team is better today than it was yesterday or that the 6th round pick will get us to a championship?

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In a very simplistic sense, I think it has to do with his arm strength, the percieved ability to stay in the pocket and make all the passes in the playbook,

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I suppose that's as good an explaintion as any,,, This whole thing stinks of something,,,

As far as this while issue,, Someone else said it and I kinda wondered about it, but I wonder if Frye blew up in the locker room after the game and it caused a rift with the team....

He just doesn't seem like that kinda kid,, never has..

Then on the 11pm news on Channel 5 last night, a TV reporter, complete with camera, caught up to Frye at the airport where he was heading to Seattle.

He seemed calm, and said all the right things... Im really confused by this whole thing.

Then again, it could be as simple as Savage says, time to move on and it's better for us and charlie both...

Just clicking...

I said some time ago, the Browns have too many QBs...

Many, including me, thought that Anderson might be the one on the block after watching him in preseason games. Turns out, the "official" Browns line is that both QBs were on the block.

Here is a sentence from one article that confirms, both were on the block... Savage said he's been fielding talk about both QBs since drafting Quinn and that more teams were interested in Frye.... web page

I think the team did the right thing in moving one of these QBs but it sure is rare that it's done after the first game of the season. Usually, deals are struck in the preseason. I do sense some "mismanagement from upstairs" in that NFL teams usually don't trade their starter after the first game of the season.

It's obvious that the Browns are focused on Quinn's development 100% and I have my doubts they are looking at a next season. If Anderson goes down next week, who is gonna go in?

To some degree, the Seahawks forced the Browns hand by showing interest in Dorsey. Had the Seahawks signed Dorsey the Browns would have lost the one guy most responsible for helping Quinn catch up after the hold out. Add to that, the Chud/Dorsey connection and Dorsey's ability to teach Chuds offense, and it's is obvious, the Browns needed Dorsey's knowledge of the offense more than their #1 or #2 QBs.

The Browns organization is again exposed as not having it together as this had to be one of the strangest trades I have seen the Browns pull off. Savage should have made the trade in preseason and if no deal could be made, cut the odd man out and keep Dorsey. Trying to milk the situation for a late round draft pick just is not worth the embarrassment to the organization...jmho.

Did Frye get screwed?....sure he did...but welcome to the NFL, which stands for Not For Long. Had Frye played well last week, it would have been likely that this week's Browns News would have been Anderson being cut and Dorsey resigned.

I told my wife after the Browns game, Frye may have played himself out of a starting job.

Little did we know, Frye played himself out of Cleveland...lol.

To Charlie, I say good luck and thank you for doing your best for the Browns.

Peen...both were on the block and no one was interested in Anderson.

Read above as I lay out a few facts...bottom line, the Browns had too many QBs and someone was determined to get a draft pick for one of the two....mac

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Did Frye get screwed?....sure he did...but welcome to the NFL, which stands for Not For Long. Had Frye played well last week, it would have been likely that this week's Browns News would have been Anderson being cut and Dorsey resigned.

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did Charlie Get screwed, I see your point but I'll disagree with that to some degree, Charlie got a fair shot and it didnt work, now he's going to a stable organization, where he wont have to learn a new system every 6 months, he's going to sit behind a True Veteran ( not one pick-up to keep a spot Warm after nobody else wants him) Charlie is going to a Systems he's better suited for and will have a Head Coach kown for developing QB's. So what looks like a sad or screwy situation for now, will work out in Charlies favor down the road, will he ever start in Seattle only if there is a injury..But Charlie is a solid back-up QB who can come in and do a good job for ya. Dont ask him to perform miricals as did RAC & Savage but ask Charlie to direct the Off for a game or Two he will do just Fine.

Tuesday's quarterback shuffle that saw Charlie Frye traded to Seattle and Ken Dorsey return to the Browns leaves Anderson as the likely starter for this week's game against the Bengals. Browns General Manager Phil Savage said it was his understanding that Anderson would start Sunday with Quinn, the third quarterback last week, serving as the primary backup.

"We've had those discussions upstairs," Savage said. "We've talked about it a lot.


I believe this was discussed Monday..and Phil was on the phone while the guys were at practice..

He's been regarded as the Browns' quarterback with the strongest arm, and Savage said the Browns coaches and scouts believe Anderson's ability to make every throw allows them to use the entire playbook.

Several thoughts..it was even mentioned about our departed OC that he lacked confidence in Frye..there were questions about his arm even though they SAID Frye could make the throws..
It's why certain routes weren't being run with CF in ..

I did read somewhere were Chud said DA was a good fit in this offense due to his arm.

Now my counterpoint..Mr.Anderson may have strength..but he can't control it..this is where his leash is short..he'll make 3-4 passes in a row, then throw a pick..
He cannot read coverages very well , nor is his raw arm capable of throwing touch passes when need downfield..
These inabilities are going to hurt us bigtime..

While he has a arm he doesn't have the instincts or the smarts to be successful..oh sure he can sense a blitz and has good pocket awareness..but when going through his reads he can't identify the coverage..U have to be able to do that quickly..

great now we have an even worse QB starting for us

DORSEY, DORSEY, DORSEY

To me it is pretty simple. RAC wanted Charlie because he was the experienced guy. RAC got his way, played the guy and it blew up in his face.

I think large portions of the staff and brass viewed Anderson as a better option as the LT back-up on this team.

Then WHY DID RAC ALLOW the competition IF HE WANTED Frye all along?
If Frye was his man he wouldn't have said last year that DA would allowed to compete for the job..
Same thing I been telling Pit..
It really is simple but maybe too simple for U.
It's known Rac HAS LOYALITIES..and he did like Frye..and experience does play a part but not the vital issue..

Fact is the Browns(from what I just heard) had this deal for Frye on the table after the draft...
I already knew the Browns had been shopping both QB's well before this..

THEY WANTED Anderson to win the competition HANDS DOWN..had he done that they would have moved Frye before the season started ...probably during TC..
But since you are on the hunt for Rac's job thats ALL U can see.

Toad,

I'm not sure what to think of the whole Frye situation, and I certainly think this whole situation makes us "look" bad. But, I'm not ready to give up on RAC yet, and I'm certainly not ready to give up on Savage. I think, like you said, Savage has laid some eggs. However, he has also done a lot to shore some things up on this team that have lacked for a long time, like a good, if not potentially great, OL ,and he's also hit on some undrafted free agents and brought in a punter who has done really well.

The reason I'm not giving up on RAC yet is because I truly feel that the Cincinnati game will be the most telling for me. If the team comes out fired up and plays like we all expect them to play, I think a lot of us would feel better about RAC, especially if we play that way for the rest of the year, even if we lose our share of games for no other reason than the other teams are just plan better than us.

But, if we come out and perform against Cincy like we did against the Squeelers, I'll really start to question RAC in my own mind.

JMHO

Wow look who decided to come out and play.

I don't think it mattered who they decided was the starter that guy was doomed to fail. Neither one has the talent to be an NFL starter. It was just a matter of time before one was gone and Quinn was in.

As far as the fire RAC crowd I'm not sold he is the answer yet but I don't see anyone else out there who could win more games with this team. Yes there are some talented INDIVIDUALS on the team but it isn't a very talented TEAM. Every prognosticator in the country is picking the Browns to be one of the worst teams in the country. The odds makers in Vegas are picking us as one of the worst team but for some reason fans of this team expect a miracle.