DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2019 NFL Season Looking Back: Browns 13 Rams 20 Post game thoughts

Hard to underestimate this point ... I agree 100% and if there was a play that personified how prepared Wilks and this D was ... the interception on 3rd and short (I think it was only 2 or 3 yards Rams needed) and the D was in the perfect D to stifle the Rams aggressive call. Admittedly, Gurley was open for a short pass and first down in the middle but Goff didn't see him.

Great post.

Just for clarification, went back and read up on some of Bakers Draft reports/scouting.. Everything he was exceptional at then, is the opposite now, accuracy, ball placement, throwing under pressure, moving in the pocket, reading defenses quickly. We saw it last year as true...he did all those things...think about some of those passes where he slid around and threw a ball that had no business being completed and it was because only his guy could get his hands on it. What changed...I think it comes down to Baker not trusting Kitchens and this scheme..I think alot of it is FK calling plays from an offense he knows nothing about. I've said before, Monken has always had successful Offenses everywhere he's gone, so why wouldn't you let him do it...Ego..sorry Freddie, you haven't proven anything to have any sort of ego. Time to let Monken call the plays and you just work on game management.. you know..managing the clock, penalties and Challenges...all the things you suck at now. Get good at those first, then worry about who's calling the plays

This defense should keep us in every game and give the offense every chance to win it. Looking at the injury report and just about every single player on it was a starting defensive player, noone would have blamed them for giving up 30+ points.. Offense doesn't have an injury excuse, hell McCray played better than Hubbard has in 2 years

Very nice post, Frank. Welcome to the board.

I enjoyed the RPO offense and the Rams didn't. It seemed like we should have been doing that all night (mix in a run or two for Mayfield as well).

Again, the timeout on 4th down, why? If we fail and still have 3 timeouts, we can still force a punt and get the ball back with 20 seconds at midfield. Is it unlikely to win there, yes, but it's another chance. Then again, they could have been going faster that drive to maximize the time left had we not scored. I didn't see that urgency.

I feel okay with the result. We played them close and I thought we would get rolled. Our defense is good. We need to keep the fast offense for Baker to get comfortable. When the opposing defense isn't expecting, then go down field.

My thoughts:

Great game by Wilks and the defense. We held one of the most high powered offenses in the NFL to 20 points with a secondary missing everyone of it's starters and that is exceptional. I will say though that #35(Whitehead) needs to be cut, the dude can't cover and most of the time when he went to tackle someone he would launch himself and hit the player with a shoulder and not wrap up and the other player would just keep going like nothing happened.

Offensively we have problems. The play calling at times leaves a lot to be desired, calling the draw play on 4th & 9, limiting yourself by having an empty backfield when you are goal to go (at least put a guy in motion to give the defense the idea that it could be an end round), running plays that require the WRs to run routes 25 yards down field when your backed up against your own end zone, etc. As for Mayfield he almost seems as though he's scared to get hit, he never seems to step up in the pocket, he always takes off to his right. I don't know if he thinks he's trying to buy more time to hit the big play or what but sometimes you just got to take what the defense gives you. O-line wise we are not bad but our OTs sure won't be confused with Pro Bowl players, we are ok as long as Freddie doesn't call long developing plays but there again that is part of the problem as Freddie doesn't seem to be calling that many quick throws. Oh well hopefully we can get it all together next week.

I keep reading from the coaches that we need to call plays that get the ball out of Baker's hand quickly...then...in the shadow of our own endzone...we call THAT play. That tells me that the 'need to get back to plays that get the ball out quicker' mantra is BS. It appears that we are pounding a square peg into a round hole.

The play-calling is poor and doesn't fit the personnel. Everything else I'm about to say follows that poor play-calling.

The OL cannot sustain blocks for long-developing plays...they simply cannot. Asking them to do something that they simply cannot do is the opposite of what FK did last year after becoming HC. Yet he/they keep doing it.

Baker is all out of whack. He's getting play-calls that don't make sense for the personnel in front of him...and when he does get the 'right' play-call he is missing the play too often. He is most-effective when he has a rhythm...and the play-calling is providing none of that. How many times is he accused of 'holding the ball too long' when the play-call takes more than 2.5 seconds to develop? See the above video.

FK harped all pre-season on wanting to see consistency out of his players...don't be great and then blah...just let me know what I'm getting.

Perhaps he needs to heed his own advice.

Very disapointed in our offensive playcalling.
Mayfield along with Kitchens have regressed from last year.
The offensive line needs help.
We need a legit tight end who can catch and block.
Chubb is my favorite player. He reminds me a lot of Mike Pruitt.
Our defense did a nice job. Our strength by far.
Still too many penalties. When does that get fixed?
I am wondering if Freddie is in over his head.

Great post, and completely agree. Which is why I pin some of the blame on Dorsey as well. He had caught lightning in a bottle last year. Like you are saying, Freddy's best selling point was the continuity of something that was working. If you knew Freddy planned on scrapping what he had and starting over, not to mention do play calling himself while acting as head-coach, then what was the point of promoting him? At that point you're saying "We want him because he works with Baker well". Okay, then hire him as a as a QB coach or OC. Not as a rookie Head Coach (risky), looking to install a whole new offense for a 2nd-year QB (bad), while also serving the job as play-caller (bad).

I feel the best attribute you can have in a coach is when he can morph the offense into something that works best with the players he has. Kitchens did that beautifully last year. The worst kind of coaches are the ones that think they have a perfect system that's worked for them in the past and they just try to hammer their players into that system. And somehow that's what the coaching staff is doing now. "We want to run air-raid! ... it's not working? Well, keep running it until it does!" So frustrating, considering what we had working last year.

#6 is haunting us all.

We seemed to fix SOME of what folks have been clamoring for. We ran the ball well and we had a lot more quick release pass plays, pulled off a couple screens that worked well... the offense, at times, looked better.

Then there were the head scratchers... the draw on 4th and 9? 3 guys running 40 yards downfield on 3rd and 10 from your own goal line? empty backfield 4 times from the 4?

Between Monken, Freddie, and Baker, I'm not sure who gets what proportion of the blame for the things that aren't going well.... I guess Freddie for some of the playcalling, but Baker goes into panic if his first read isn't there and he either bails or stands there patting the ball until he's sacked.

Baker is great out of the pocket if he is moving laterally and toward the LOS.. if he's moving laterally and backwards, good things seldom happen.

I think Baker needs to run more (by "more" I mean "ever"). Multiple times the Rams DL left him a seam right up the middle by rushing hard up field on the edges and Baker steps forward, pauses, pats the ball, and forces passes downfield.. he could easily take off and run for 7 or 8 yards or more and slide and live to play another day. Their DL rushes like they have no fear of Baker running, the LBs cover and turn their back like they have no fear of Baker running... because Baker never runs... even when the opportunity is there.

Another thing about the D, Gurley was for the most part ineffective. He is a talented back.

I agree with that too. I was thinking the same during the game. Why isn't Baker scrambling more? He did it well last year. My guess is the staff told him not to run it. It's not like he would just stop doing it himself, right? On many of those "longer than 3 second" plays I was screaming at him to just run it. Instead he wants to do that bootleg out to the right and throw it out of bounds thing he's been doing all season now.

Agreed. Our O is a work in progress. Hopefully it will click sooner than later or our season will go south in a hurry.

I was at the game last night. Had an amazing experience and met several coaches. My neighbor is friends with Stump Mitchell so we got on field access during the pre game warmups.

It was great to see the whole field and actually observe different aspects of the game. I had great seats so I was really able to observe. I have a lot to say but don't have time to type a lot so here is the gist:

-Is Baker holding the ball too long and escaping too early? -Yes
-Is the OLine not keeping Baker clean and struggling at times? - Yes
-Is our offense a mess? - Yes

However, all of this is a by product of our scheme and play calling. Baker is looking like the Baker of last year when he has quick reads and has more than one quick option. On our sole TD drive, we ran quick tempo and had quick routes, Baker killed it. The problem is, most of the game we had our receivers running deep routes that took forever to develop. Baker sees this, feels the pocket collapsing, has no where to throw the ball, so he escapes the pocket. The Rams secondary was playing soft coverage all night and were giving us the short curls and outs, we just weren't calling them. Look at the video posted on the 3 and ten play from deep on our side of the field. If Landry stops and does a curl after 10-15 yards, its a completion all day. It was there all game!! Baker has no chance with that type of play calling. We were setting up play action beautifully by effectively running the ball, yet never called play action. It was infuriating!!

I hear all the Oline talk, but this line is plenty good to hold the pocket with better play calling that takes advantage of some quick slants, curls, and outs. That sets up the deep ball. With better play calling and better scheme the line would be fine.

I really like Freddie the person, and he says all the right things. I like his mentality and the way he looks at football and the role coaches play. The problem is, he is failing to execute on what he says. Freddie and our scheme is the problem right now. Plain and simple.

Our defense was amazing. Met Wilks and his family before the game. Real good dude. The defense was stout all night and played really well. There was some stuff there, like not protecting the middle of the field and letting Kupp eat us alive, but overall with the number of injuries we were dealing with, those boys were ready to play.

I might have more later, but that is my brain dump for now....

I brought this up. How many 3rd and shorts did we have where the DB were playing 7-8 yards off OBJ or Jarvis and just wouldn't throw a quick curl.....MADDENING!

This!

Here may be an idea:

Start off in an uptempo offense .. no huddle, no subs ... practice it all week and get comfortable in whatever throws/runs are easy and will get us on track.

Maybe we just need to start fast to find our rhythm and take off some pressure. I’ve had teams that need to start off pressing (even if it’s for 2 minutes) to get into the flow and have best results

Good post - with regard to the offense - whatever the reason or whoever has made the call .... the coaching is BAD. Forget the on field game day calls (as tragic as it's been) this offense completely voids our QB's strengths instead of playing to them. Add too that - while I think the OL play has been good enough, it's not a strength of the team and the long route development also puts them in a bad place, especially against stellar DL like the Rams have.

A lot has been covered so I'll just add a few observations.

Freddie's need to stick with slow-developing plays when it's clear the QB isn't getting much time is mind-boggling. A smart, experienced coach would immediately adapt to short quick throws, slants, outs, and crossing routes that would allow Baker to get rid of the ball quickly, and to get the ball in the hands of his playmakers. I cannot for the life of me figure out why he doesn't make these adjustments when confronted with aggressive D-lines. He doesn't strike me as a stupid man, but he's making stupid decisions.

We've seen a fair amount of zone coverage used to combat Freddie's scheme and confuse Baker. It's time they have a discussion and then work on finding soft spots within the zones. These are not insurmountable obstacles, yet for sixty minutes, they seem completely perplexed by what they are seeing in front of them. And it pisses me off.

Run Chubb for God's sake! I mean, WTF? This is not rocket science and the man is an excellent back. EXCELLENT! Use him! And stop running him out of the shotgun all the freaking time. He has to run over, stop, get the ball, then take off running again. It's stupid. Hand off from under center so our bruiser of a back can get a head of steam. Again, it's not rocket science.

Baker looks like he's afraid to take any kind of hit. He needs to grow a pair and stand in there once in a while. He's playing scared and everyone knows. It's not a good look.

I feel sorry for the D.

Oline: Needs work,, Lots of work.. As Collingsworth pointed out, if Baker got the ball out inside of 2 seconds, we were moving the ball.. If it took longer than that, Baker was toast.

Dline: Looked great at times, look average at other times, but still, nothing to worry about other than consistency.

Receivers: Again, if Baker doesn't have time to find them there is a problem. we sure could have used Njoku.

Chubb: This kid is the real deal

Secondary: What they showed yesterday is that they are well coached.. Good job. Worried about Ward. He gets hurt a lot.

Special Teams: I didn't see anything wrong.. The hammer did his job and so did Seibert..

Penalties: This just ticks me off. We'll probably never had a game with no penalties, but geez.. They are killing us. Gotta clean that up.

4th and 9: What the hell was that. Don't do that anymore.

j/c...

- The crowd at the game last night was great. Loud and everyone in their seats.

- Clay Matthews Ring of Honor ceremony was great.

- Hats off to Steve Wilks and the Browns defense. Especially, considering all the injuries.

- The offense is a complete mess. Completely disjointed.

- Baker missing/not seeing open receivers. He looks lost out there.

- Freddie appears completely overwhelmed. The scoreboard operator replayed the non-call pass interference on Seals-Jones seemingly as a way of begging Freddie to challenge that PI should have been called to no avail.

- A draw play on 4th and 9? I have not seen a play call this nonsensical since Pat Shurmur called a goal line handoff to TE Alex Smith whom had never taken a handoff in his life. Calls like this tell me Freddie is lost on the sidelines.

- 1st and goal at the 4 yard line and we are running empty sets? Absurd. Three timeouts and not a single run play for Chubb. OBJ not targeted either. Inexcusable.

- I'm already tired of the "I'll take all the blame for this." Instead, get it fixed.

- Baker needs to get much better and quickly.

- We have Baker, OBJ, Landry and Chubb and this offense is averaging 15.3 points per game through three games. Unacceptable.

- Freddie and Monkey need to identify the problem(s), streamline the offense and get it performing efficiently and to the teams strengths.

- Time to listen to Nathan Zegura and some Browns propaganda radio.

Someone needs to ask the league office just what actually constitutes a hold or penalty in our favor

I remember that play.

Collinsworth couldn't stop talking about how awesome Whitworth was.

Yeah. It was all game as usual. Very hard to watch the NFL these days.

I remember that play on Garrett, too ... that’s pretty blatant and out in the open too

"Being critical of myself, I do wish I would've given the ball to Nick [Chubb] one time.....some of these situations are new for me and I understand I'll get better from it, our team will get better from it" - Freddie Kitchens on those final 4 plays

A first and goal is a new thing for him?

j/c

I saw Freddie talking to the refs after the pass interference where the WR was forced out of bounds before the ball arrived. I'm not sure but I believe the play is dead after the encroachment penalty was called. Therefore no review of the play was allowed.

They interviewed the NBC officiating analyst (whichever one it is) right during that play and he said “If they challenge it, they’d just get an offsetting penalty ... basically, just a re-do of 2nd down”

It wasn't encroachment, it was illegal formation (but they signaled it like it was a false start), and that isn't a dead-play situation.

Your correct. And I believe Freddie said in the post game he didn't feel like it was worth the challenge.

I still don't think he knew what down it was after that, that's why he ran a draw on 4th.

j/c...

I think as the week progresses we will find this is not correct. Once the offense jumps, the play is dead.

That’s an interesting stat and graph ... and I also understand that we probably self scout and wanted to buck the trend a bit cuz we knew they’d key on us running left

If it was a false start yes, but it wasn't. It was a illegal formation if I remember. They let that play out and then call it.