DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2019 NFL Season Looking Back: Browns 3 49ers 31 Postgame Thoughts

Dan Orlovsky said it best: Shanahan looked like a college professor and Kitchens looked like a substitute teacher. Not saying Kitchens can’t improve and become a good HC someday, but he’s not even close right now. IMO we would be in a MUCH better spot as a team had we hired an experienced HC (and I think we would have been able to land a good candidate given our situation)

I admit that I was (and still am) very disappointed that we didn't keep GW as HC, and FK as he OC. There seemed to be a synergy between the two of them that boded well for the future. Oh well, too late for that so let's get behind and support what we've got and give it a fair chance. Most of us acknowledged that we might get off to a slow start due to all the changes that were made...

Took me until today to be able to think,,,,,

That game sucked.. We have a long way to go..

J/C

I have stayed off since game night out of frustrations. I am sick of the back and forth on whose fault this is - the coach, baker, the line.

Monday night was an atrocity, and I don't think you can call that effort a professional football team.

Freddie -

He is lost. He has no control over this team, and OBJ taking the team aside on the sidelines tells me he has lost them. They have checked out on Freddie and his message. Unprepared, horrible game planning albeit the Ravens game, and just poor decisions all around. So far, he has been Hue 2.0. Enough said.

Oline -

They were atrocious. Giving up a sack under 3 seconds on a 2 man rush?! Give me a break. I don't want to hear its all Bakers fault either. This line is awful. The tackles are the biggest need. Robinson is a joke, and Hubbard was a backup in Pittsburgh that we think can start.....Even Joel was getting manhandled. They have checked out.

Baker -

He has regressed. And if he doesn't turn it around FAST, I fear he may never will. I have stuck up for him, and I think deep down he is a good kid, but he needs to get his head straight. Far too often he actually HAS TIME, and he bails on a good pocket, or doesn't step up. The one Bosa sack, all he had to do was step up and he would have been fine. Instead, he tries to roll out right. Hes not going to outrun anyone (especially since he looks like he put on 20 lbs of fat). Stay in the pocket and move your feet in there. Learn to read a defense, learn to check down, and learn to move you EYES!

Wilks -

I have praised him over the last two weeks, but how the heck do you come out running a 4-2-5 against one of the most run heavy teams in the league? That may have worked against Balt. because it helped contain Lamar, but Jimmy G aint running the ball. You need LB's in there to help stuff the run. This was evident ON THE FIRST PLAY FROM SCRIMMAGE!

Myles -

I am getting sick of hearing him saying he wants to be DPOY, when he cant stop a cold in the run game.

CB -

They finally played like backups, so I wont be too hard on them. But Randall, my man - I saw you pull up on that first play. Not a good look when your trying to get a big deal.


Overall Effort -

Its one thing to be a poor tackler, but I time and time again, I saw guys not even trying. The effort of this team is what is the most concerning. They are lost. I don't believe they have any faith in the coaching staff, and are not playing hard for them.

That is the biggest concern of all to me. Ive seen better effort from the Dolphins this year.

As of right now, I see us as a Tampa Bay type team. Loads of talent, not sure about our QB as one day he looks great, one day he looks like pooh (even though Baker didn't even look GREAT against BALT, just improved), not sure about our coaching staff, just dredging along through the season looking good one week, and like poop the next.

SMH

I don't know that they checked out. OBJ pulling people to the side would be evidence to the opposite, I think. If you're saying that there are individuals that are prone to checking out, or never really bought in in the first place, I could agree with that... or that the team as a whole handles adversity about as poorly as possible, I wholeheartedly agree with that.

I'm no Kitchens fan right now, but comparing him to Shanny is totally unfair. Shanny has been preparing and groomed for this spot for his whole career. Early on, dude knew he was going to be a HC. We all knew. He's put decent offenses together with subpar talent (ours), he's put together amazing offenses with good talent (Atlanta). He's failed and learned from said failures (ex. 'skins). He took his lumps last year in San Fran leading that team decimated by injuries. Kitchens hasn't experienced a quarter of that. Kitchens wasn't going to have it all figured out straight out of the gate, and neither was this team (new pieces and coaches and a 2nd year QB).

What if he went 9-21 instead like Big Ben...who won a SUPER BOWL with that stat line? That one more completion in one less attempt really turned the tide. Calloway catches the TD throw instead of handing to the defense and his stat line was 9-22...same as Big Ben's SUPER BOWL with one more attempt. How oh how did the Steelers win a SUPER BOWL with essentially the same stat line from the QB? It's a mystery.

The more you harp on that stat...the more you show who stats are for...and it highlights an appearance that you don't understand that there is much more to winning a game than what the QB stat line says.

I thought the same thing when I saw some kid do it at The Shoe.

Karma is a biotch.

I don't think either instance was bad, imo. I enjoy some rousing by other players. I think the if Ohio State didn't want the flag planted, they should have played better. I think if Baker didn't like Bosa planting the flag on him after getting knocked down - he should have played better.

That's the type of stuff that creates rivalries. I love it. To each their own though, I like trash talking a little bit between teams. Makes the game more fun to watch. We were on the bad side of it both times though, which is insanely odd lol.

The art of sportsmanship is officially dead according to some.

And even when sportsmanship is shown, all it takes is 1 person to lie - despite video - and SOME people go off on our qb.

Yep...one of the guys who did that did so as a college player after leading his team to victory over arguably the best team in the nation...certainly one of the best teams...on the road...after getting smoked at home the previous year.

The other guy did it as a "Professional" after beating a team his was 'supposed' to beat...at home...after a 15 day vacation to prepare (and fired up by a teammate who is a proven liar). That same guy quit on his team just last year to enhance his draft stock/status.

This is too easy.

It was just as easy to do both times.

Hmmmmm...........we have 3 people who actually "like" a post that refers to another poster a loser.

Actually, Nick Bosa did it with :04 left in the 2nd quarter. For all Intents and Purposes the game was over, but not really.

Without a doubt.

Sherman lies and the Baker haters use it to attack Baker.

Sherman is shown to be lying with video evidence... instead of retracting those attacks they basicakly said " well it could have been true so I don't need to apologize"

As i said ... as a Brown, Baker has stared down the ex HC who went on a media tour blaming everyone but himself for his 1-31 record .... and he made a comment about Duke when asked about Duke seeking a trade. THAT comment got blown out of all 0roportion and some haters even went as far as to basically lie and claim Duke left because of Baker .... pretty sad.

You can still be a sportsman with having a good rivalry talking a little smack, its not one or the other.

Mmmm hmmm. Trying to plant your flag on an opponents field is so sportsmanlike. Just not when somebody does it to us.

One guy was a college kid...one guy was a "Professional". Kind of a difference there.

How's that Sherman apology working for you and Vers? What about Vers' ESPN video?

YOU are butt-hurt about someone saying the "stats are for losers" mantra?

How are you liking Richard Sherman now? Sherman is set to apologize for being a liar. You have anything to say about that "video" now that you've lost yet-another agenda item?

Really? And one is still shooting his mouth off on a fairly regular basis.



You may wish to go back and look. I don't recall really saying anything about the hand shake. Make sure when you take a jab you have a target to swing at.

Yeah, Sherman still is, even in his apology. Glad you noticed that.

Well he certainly isn't alone in that department.

Uhhhh...no. No...he's not.

Don't bother him with facts. He's a keyboard expert on anything and everything.........and still burning fossil fuels to do it.

And you run around from forum to forum carrying over debates you continue to lose.

earth to arch. This is the pure football forum.

You seem to think that less than a month ago is ancient history. It's not.

Pit, when mayfield planted that flag on the block o I was looking for Andy katzenmoyer or James laurenitis to appear on the field and take his head off. that was then when baker was a sooner, this is now when baker is a brown. What bothers me is not what bosa did but how some so called browns fans seem to be reveling in the fact that bosa made baker’s life miserable during the game and got baker his comeuppance with the flag. For these folks it is like bosa is the hero and baker the villain. Baker is our qb.

I do think bosa’s gesture was meaningless since it was his home field. Now if he had planted it on the orange helmet I hope someone would have taken his head off.

I remember years past when we got on QBs for checking down too early and too often.. but this isn't then. We have a good running game and, for the most part, a pretty good defense.

I would much rather see Baker look at the checkdown half a second too early than half a second too late... get the 5 yards and run another play.

Could you name any “ shooting off the mouth” that baker has done as a brown that resulted in bulletin board material for our opponent. Anything else is just fluff. Well, that and an excuse for a small group of people on here to complain about baker. I honestly believe the sashi obsession has been replaced by the baker obsession.

...Actually, this is the "Looking Back..." forum.

It would be nice if everyone kept it to football, though.

You should have read my follow-up to Vers's follow-up, when I told him I thought it was classless when baker did it,

I said the same thing of Hue Jackson, that just because you call great plays, or that you have a great offensive/defensive mind, doesn't mean you are qualified to run the whole show.

The 53-man, practice squad, coaching staff, etc.. It's a lot.

Now, I'm not saying Freddie is Hue Jackson, but Jackson prior to the Browns was the hot candidate. And indeed, he does have a great offensive mind, but he failed in so many of those extra areas that appear when you become head coach.

Some of Freddie's play calls both last year and this year have been downright awesome. The shovel pass play to Landry. Mixing in both a successful pass and rush play with Odell Beckham Jr in the same half? Pretty innovative. He clearly can call plays.

But there is definitely a learning curve that is really getting to him, and I really hope he figures it out, because with that offensive mind, it would be an awesome thing to see, but there is no guarantee of that.

I think you have to really trust your coaching staff, and I don't think he's quite there yet. Hue Jackson failed there miserably. All the other coaches we've had pretty much failed there with maybe the exception of Romeo Crennel who completely understood the concept of leaning on your coordinators.

I said it before the season, that this was quite the jump, to go from a positional coach to an NFL head coach in less than a year. I think we need to be a little more patient with him. We're going to have some turd games this year, we've already had 2. We're going to have games like the Baltimore game where we look like actual contenders.

But man, he's gotta help his young QB out a hell of a lot more. He's doing him no favors right now.

j/c:

Thanks to Sperg for talking football. But just look at all the posts that have absolutely nothing to do w/football or the game itself and how many posters constantly attack and lie about other posters.

I really wish the Refs would put a stop to these guys ruining thread after thread because they have to resort to personal insults and character attacks instead of just making their points about the game and/or football.

Btw Sperg. I disagree w/almost every one of your takes in that particular post. But, that's okay. Because at least you are trying to talk about the game and football and are not resorting to the personal attacks and lies that so many others are engaging in.

I think having different opinions like you and I do in this particular situation is a good thing. It paints a more complete picture and there is no need to disparage the other poster to "win" an argument.

So, here is where I disagree w/you.

I think the biggest problem that Hue Jackson had was a team that lacked talent. Do you know how hard it is to keep a team playing hard and believing when your front office is tanking and getting rid of good players? Players on teams like the Dolphins gave up BEFORE the season. The players loved Hue. A couple didn't, but most of them did. His faults were that he talked too damn much and he was too easy on the guys. The penalties were on him. But, the guy was a great motivator and his play calling was actually good.

I also disagree that Freddie is the reason why Baker is not performing well. He's the same dude who turned around Baker's season last year. We are asking Baker to do more, but I think teams are catching up to Baker. He might very well be a system qb. I also think he plays hero ball, and guys like Steve Young are saying the same thing. Guys who have played the position in the freaking NFL. Not some guys on a message board like me.

Now, I don't know if Freddie is a good coach or not. Hell, one guy on here says I "hate Freddie." LOL I'm just saying that it's too early to write this guy off.

But again, I like your post and it's cool to debate w/out all the childish insults that dominate so many of these thread. Thanks for the discussion and I would actually welcome another post from you telling me why you disagree w/my takes.

His teams weren't talented, that I will give you, but not once when he was head coach, did I ever feel like he was getting everything out of his guys.

There's also that whole 3-36-1 thing. I can't blame talent on that. It's the NFL. Each of these guys is a unique talent. This wasn't a playoff roster, but I just never felt like he was getting everything out of his guys, and a lot of games, it felt like they were not prepared to play.

Okay. Thanks for keeping it to football.

You commented how the players loved Hue.

I don't think the players loved Hue nearly as much as you claim. I'd call it the opposite, maybe a couple loved him, but most did not.

I think the only player I can say definitively who loved Hue was Joe Thomas.

https://youtu.be/7O5W5su_vGo

Its not all Baker. Is there some on him, of course. The scheme, play calling, and execution is making him look bad.

I was just watching that video. Just so you know, bro...........it's a really bad take. There were guys open underneath on those plays. Baker "chose" to force the ball.