DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Baker .....

Have you not sensed a change in attitude in Berea since the acquisition of OBJ? The coaches feel the need to get him the ball, the offense has changed, Baker’s play and persona have changed, the leaders from last year no longer hold the same voice .. he’s changed the entire dynamic. Whether it’s directly or indirectly, OBJ has certainly had his mark on the team IMO.

ehh, if you are a top candidate you are not going to take to the first gig you interview for. You know there are going to be multiple positions open AFTER the season ends. Anyone that is a THINKER knows this and will wait until they speak to other teams.

If a guy signs somewhere before interviewing anywhere else - I then don't want him to begin with, because it sounds to me hes not worried about WHERE he goes, hes just worried about getting a job as quickly as possible.

My .02

I watched closely on the TD OBJ got last week. Baker ran up to him to celebrate, and OBJ shrugged him off and ghosted him. At least that's how it looked on TV.

I think last year Baker was the man on this team. He was supposed to be the leader. Odell came in, all the focus was on him - JArvis is his boy, and the guys are gravitating towards odell instead of baker. That has an effect.

bill belichick's record at Cleveland 1st year 6/10 second yr 7/9 3rd year 7/9

You summed this up nicely.

And what the Heck is going on with Higgins? He was pretty damn good last year and has been improving every year, until this year.

I think anyone that watches enough nfl games would agree that Baker just doesn't make very many NFL caliber throws into NFL windows....his accuracy is off the charts bad this year when last year it was the opposite..alot broken right now with baker and its hard to say if its baker or the coaching. But baker's drop off has been substantial

Good article by Schudel .. he’s right, if Baker is the problem we’re screwed for a while. If he has another poor season then we have some big time decisions to make

Baker was a bully that got punched in the mouth this year.

Sometimes when bullies get bullied they lose all their confidence and never recover.

Your move, Bake.

How is Baker a bully?

What aspect of the Cleveland Browns make them bullies? lmao

We WISH were bullies. This ain't the damn playground.

Higgins, then Njoku... I'd hazard to guess that Freddie has decided to address discipline issues with players who may not have as as strong a personality as others? I'm not saying OBJ or JArvis should be benched or anything, but I find it hard to imagine guys like Higgins or Njoku smarting off to Freddie or any other coach in a worse way than those two have... and in public.

I've noticed 2 things that are obvious to my untrained eye:

1) Bakers foot work isn't like it was last year

2) He's not nearly as disciplined in his execution of plays. Meaning, we don't see those gimmicks or even play action passes where Baker is as cool as a cucumber, like he's done it before.

I suppose the second could influence the first.

I think he is still really good with his pre-snap reads. I don't think it's a coincidence that in our successful drives we often see the offense up at the line before 10 seconds.

I think Baker's career is coming up at a crossroads pretty quickly. IMO what he needs is a coach who is a hard ass, disciplinarian, who is genuinely going to develop and mentor him and turn him in to an actual professional. An expert in his game, not just someone who gets paid like one.

I almost hate to mention Gregg Williams because at this point its almost like pining after Lawrence Vickers still (but take a moment and imagine what it would be like if we had a FB like him????). Say whatever you want about his defensive schemes, the guy clearly was a student of Leadership and set the tone from the moment he met those guys about coming to work. Joe Schobert was looking like he may end up being just another guy until Gregg assessed him, directed him to get in a physical shape that better reflected his body type, even if it meant being a little lighter... and here we are stressing about the odds of Dorsey re-signing a Pro Bowler.

You may get that kind of thing from a top notch position coach, but what are the odds of having someone like that at each position?

Anyway, our RB coach seems to be doing a helluva job with Chubb and Hunt. Maybe he'll be on the short list for HC next year if the position opens up..?

It would be great if:

1) Baker could have an experienced QB Coach.

2) Baker had an experienced mentor. Tyrod flippin Taylor was not it. He needs someone legit to guide him and he does not have this. He has never had this.

It will be a huge problem if Baker is the problem. Seeing that there has been disconnect with this entire team since camp opened, I don't think he is the problem.

Even before camp, during mini's there were reports the team was having trouble installing large parts of the O. It seems they never were able to get it installed. This has been a mess since day one.

Fix that, then we will find out what we have at QB. Since we have seen better last year, I am not all that concerned at this point.

LOL....you sound like a fool. I don't think you are, but you sure carry on like one.

I think most of that stems from the standpoint the players don't seem to know what to do. It's hard for a QB to be confidant if he doesn't know if the receivers are going to run the right routes.

This O has been a total mess long before Baker showed sighs of having problems.

We have stiffs at the tackle positions. We weakened the interior of the O-line, expecting the chump Corbett would step in rather than get traded for a sack of footballs.

We added a team wrecker in OBJ.

We have a O coordinator and head coach who mix like oil and water.

Nobody respects the head coach....yep, it's all Baker for sure...lol

And this is why I find it hard to not put so much blame on Freddie. The lack of organization from the beginning has infected every other aspect.

On top of that Freddie or Dorsey or whomever has been fighting who and what this team actually is every step of the way. Ok, so we intended to be a pass happy, sling the ball all around the field type of offense. Turns out we were better in the run game. I don't understand it, but its like the people in charge are so afraid of fully embracing that.

In a few days we are going to conclude an entire NFL season's worth of games and STILL have no idea what our identity actually is. We've trended toward getting the RBs involved more, but we certainly haven't gotten to a point where anyone can say we're run based.

-We don't use the run to control the clock.
-Our play action is crap.
-We come out empty backfield in short yardage situations. We don't even act like we might run it!

Ugh. I am so over this season. I have been for awhile. It's probably time to tune out until Week 1 of next year and watch Freddie trot out the same exact product, then come to the boards and read how anyone critical of Freddie is just being unreasonable.

Freddie got a bad deal for sure. Dorsey picked his coordinators.

It just hasn't been a good match, but Freddie has done some crazy things, and I like Freddie. After seeing what I have seen, I just don't think he is head coaching material. He knows what to say and he knows what to do, then goes out and doesn't do it.

Sometimes you can't catch that in a interview. You don't know until you see it on the field.

Freddie's problem is he wants to be the good guy. I don't think the head coach can be that. Coordinators can be that, not the head coach. That doesn't mean they have to storm around like a jerk, but they can't be buddies.

Freddie I'm sure is a decent guy and I'm willing to concede his moments of being defensive are probably more due to him finding himself with results he totally didn't expect.

But I also find it difficult to be sympathetic. Any new job has a learning curve. Even good HCs can only go as far as their roster talent will allow them. But things like preparation and organization at that level should be automatic.

I understand all the reasons why Freddie was hired. I really do. But I've seriously soured on the whole concept of bringing in rookie HCs. We bring one in and hire experienced coordinators to help reduce the load. Sometimes we even hire coordinators with prior HC experience to help "mentor". We put guys in the pilot seat who don't have even a near complete tool set, then we wonder why the same guy has little effective control over things.

Go back through the years... pick anyone of our OC or DCs who had previous HC experience... could we have done worse if we had simply brought them in to be the HC instead of the rookie they coached under?

Rookie HCs don't excite me anymore. Neither do college HCs coming up for the same reason. I'm tired of the season long "learning curve" excuse. If it's not a guy with previous HC experience and at least a slightly greater than .500 career average, I'm not even looking at the resume.

I might not close the lid as tightly as you, but I do understand the feeling.

Baker has played timid all year. No confidence in the offense he is running. He may not even believe in it.

He has hardly thrown any deep balls.

He is just managing games and plays like a turtle in his shell.

Not the aggressive Baker of a year ago.

I pray it is just this stupid Freddie offense.

We need a new experienced coaching staff stat!

Do you think counseling may help?

A year or so ago we believed we had found "our" quarterback.

I think it will take another year to see if that is still the case. There are too many variables in play this year to make a true judgement, IMHO. The offense, bar a few periods, was like a misfiring engine.

Yea, let's use yours.

Baker Mayfield says he’ll be working hard this offseason, but not with a QB tutor
https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20...ith-a-qb-tutor/

Year 2 for Browns quarterback Baker Mayfield didn’t live up to the promise of his rookie season, and he knows it’s going to take hard offseason work to get back on track in Year 3.


“I already know what exactly I need to work on and improve going forward,” Mayfield said, via the Akron Beacon Journal. “That is the exciting thing about it, it is always a continual process of getting better and improving.”

Mayfield added, however, that he will not hire a private quarterback tutor, as some passers do during the offseason.

“I do not need somebody to teach me how to do a three-step drop,” Mayfield said. “I can look at film and be critical of myself. Throughout this process, I have had people help me out along the way and try and take things from different people. Any time I am around somebody, I ask questions. Do not act like I have it all figured out. There is always room to improve and take things from there and there, but I would not say that I will go on the beach and swim through the ocean and try and learn how to play quarterback by doing that.”

With one game to go, Mayfield’s stats are down across the board this season: He has fewer yards, fewer touchdowns, a lower completion percentage and lower yards per pass, while throwing more interceptions and taking more sacks. However he does it, the Browns need Mayfield to improve in 2020.

He still doesn't get it.

honestly im not sure which way this is gonna go.

i guess i have first know how many QB's have private QB coaches during the offseason to help them. i know its common, but is it really a big thing for a QB to do it or not?

the flip side is....he claims he knows what he needs to work on, but how will he know if he's actually improving or not if nobody is there to coach him during the development? this isnt going to the range and improving your shot or something like this, for example. baker might think his footwork is fine, but then come training camp, the QB coach could be like "bro its trash", and then we're back to the same questions of "what did he actually do in the offseason"?

imo, i think most QB's are too young in their first 3-4 years to be doing things completely on their own. working out, throwing passes into nets and stuff is one thing, but making sure your mechanics are sound and understanding coverages is something different.


i dunno guys. maybe it wont be a problem if we have a new offensive coaching staff. if we keep the same one...ill be worried.

Pitching guru Tom House also tutors top NFL quarterbacks

It is run by Tom House, a former pitching coach in the major leagues and at USC. That's right: Drew Brees, Tom Brady, Carson Palmer, Matt Cassel, Alex Smith and Tim Tebow have all paid a visit to USC this offseason to work with a pitching coach.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d82...fl-quarterbacks

Jared Goff working out with quarterback tutors

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/02/17/jared-goff-working-out-with-quarterback-tutors/

There are several others but I thought these were good examples.

This is where having a strong, mature HC comes in to play. Baker is too early in his career for any aspect of his game to be too trivial. A real HC would work to screw Baker’s head on right.

A coach has no say on what a player does during the off season. Freddie has his share of the blame. Baker being stubborn and thinking he doesn't need help from experts who have worked with great QB's in the past who understood the importance of that isn't the fault of Freddie's.

It was mentioned earlier in the thread, and I agree that it appears that Mayfield could be in better physical condition than he is. I'm aware that he's wearing a QB flak jacket, but he looks chubby to me. Not just the belly, but facially too. Sometimes guys reach their middle 20's and grow into their "man body", but IMO, he looks softer and more importantly, slower to me in his reaction to the pass rush.

I also think he needs whomever is calling the plays to get them in more quickly than has been the case this season. Too often we see the Browns approach the LOS with the clock ticking down in single digits while Baker frantically tries to get people who should know where to line up into their proper spot. Its keeping him from having time to make good pre-snap reads, and I think the stress of trying to get the play off is leaking over into his execution.

Unlike Baker, I do believe he would do well to employ a Tom House to drill him on mechanics, because I believe that mechanics are the reason for the overthrows. His footwork isn't what it was last year, and part of that might be due to his being on the heavy side.

Last, I would like the Browns to hire Bernie Kosar as a QB consultant to watch film with Baker for an hour or two per week reviewing that week's opponents' defense. I can hear the groans out there as I type this, because I have said the very same thing for every young QB we have had since '99, but dammit, BK is a frigging football savant when it comes to breaking down defenses. Hell, let the QB coach Lindley sit in if he's still here. He might learn something along with Baker.

This.

Having a tutor isn't about someone teaching you about a 3-step drop.. it's about adding a different perspective to how you QB. Seeing things in a different light outside of your own.

Baker reads defenses just fine. He reads them in Braille. So he has to wait for the defensive players to get into contact with him, then he knows what they are doing.

I'm not sure if the Browns are using this (gut feeling, probably not) but if they aren't, they should. The QB needs to be able to react, not think, and a split second can be the difference between a nice pass and a strip sack.

I seem to remember the Vikings using this a couple years back. I thought that was part of the reason for Case Keenum's breakout season that year. Kirk Cousins is quietly playing at an elite level now, despite all the criticism he has taken. I don't know if they are still using virtual reality over there, though it seems like an odd thing to start and then stop using despite it producing great results, so I'm guessing it's still in play.