Baker ..... - DawgTalkers.net

Hey Baker .... play football and let actors do the commercials ... spend that extra time learning to NOT get tipped and NOT stare down and NOT run idiotic trick plays

Anybody watching this season has to ask themselves why baker still locks on 1 receiver and has trouble reading coverages.

That being said, we need new offensive coaches before we start wrecking baker too hard, even though he deserved to be wrecked.

Also, let’s just reflect for the entire season.

Is baker allowed to check out of plays, or anything of that nature? How much freedom does baker have in this offense?

Originally Posted By: Swish

Also, let’s just reflect for the entire season.

Is baker allowed to check out of plays, or anything of that nature? How much freedom does baker have in this offense?

These are all the same questions we've asked about every crappy QB the team has had since the return.

Not a good sign.

Baker has made some throws but it's like night and day to last year. I don't know enough about football to say why that is. All I can opine is, based on what I've watched, is I am befuddled by some of the play calling. A lot of plays look like rubbish if not executed well but what was that play with Hunt looking like he was going to pass?? It's not been an outlier either?

Baker has more talent in his pinky than all our last 10 QBs combined.

He needs good coaches, with good schemes, and an OL.

Originally Posted By: EveDawg

Baker has more talent in his pinky than all our last 10 QBs combined.

That could be true, and he could still not be any good.

Originally Posted By: EveDawg

Baker has more talent in his pinky than all our last 10 QBs combined.

He needs good coaches, with good schemes, and an OL.

And let's not forget elevator shoes and something to replace that scarecrow brain.

I don't think it helps your guy to run an empty backfield on nearly EVERY third and short or goal line play. QB has has to throw or run. Not enough options for him!
That's on Frederico!

Originally Posted By: 1oldMutt

I don't think it helps your guy to run an empty backfield on nearly EVERY third and short or goal line play. QB has has to throw or run. Not enough options for him!
That's on Frederico!

But it's worked so terribly all year, defenses won't expect it and this time ..... Oh never mind.

Originally Posted By: jfanent

Originally Posted By: EveDawg

Baker has more talent in his pinky than all our last 10 QBs combined.

That could be true, and he could still not be any good.

Thanks. That was damn funny.

Originally Posted By: Swish

Anybody watching this season has to ask themselves why baker still locks on 1 receiver and has trouble reading coverages.

That being said, we need new offensive coaches before we start wrecking baker too hard, even though he deserved to be wrecked.

Personally it’s looked to me like Baker is trying to run a scheme he doesn’t believe in. Not so much I think he thinks it’s BS, but I think there’s so much about it that he doesn’t find intuitive like he did last year.

I think Bakers mechanics have been off all season and I think part of it is that he beefed up muscle and weight. We need a QB coach to help him fix that asap. You don't go from being that accurate to throwing floaters and INTs without a reason.

big difference from last year to this year... Baker had a legit QB Coach in Zampese. and this year its ex 3rd string QB Ryan Lindley handling the duties... plus he doesn't have 2 veteran QBs behind him in Tyrod Taylor and Drew Stanton. Its just this Garrett Gilbert. Too Many commercials, mechanics went bad and you dont have a veteran coach to tell him to work on the mechanics. Plus, I think Baker is upset that both Rashad Higgins and David Njoku are not on the field. ..and I personally dont think he cares for OBJ.

Originally Posted By: woodybrownsfan

big difference from last year to this year... Baker had a legit QB Coach in Zampese. and this year its ex 3rd string QB Ryan Lindley handling the duties... plus he doesn't have 2 veteran QBs behind him in Tyrod Taylor and Drew Stanton. Its just this Garrett Gilbert. Too Many commercials, mechanics went bad and you dont have a veteran coach to tell him to work on the mechanics. Plus, I think Baker is upset that both Rashad Higgins and David Njoku are not on the field. ..and I personally dont think he cares for OBJ.

I was on board with all that except the part about the commercials. It was 2 days worth of filming.

Personally I find the commercials amusing

The commercials stick in my craw and I don't like them because [1] they are so numerous [2] Baker has not played well this year - but as was discussed in another thread, that's an emotive response and the reality is Baker probably filmed all of them inside of a few days.

Originally Posted By: OldColdDawg

I think Bakers mechanics have been off all season and I think part of it is that he beefed up muscle and weight. We need a QB coach to help him fix that asap. You don't go from being that accurate to throwing floaters and INTs without a reason.

I don't think that's beefed up muscle. . . . but hes definitely put on weight.

Originally Posted By: willitevachange

Originally Posted By: OldColdDawg

I think Bakers mechanics have been off all season and I think part of it is that he beefed up muscle and weight. We need a QB coach to help him fix that asap. You don't go from being that accurate to throwing floaters and INTs without a reason.

I don't think that's beefed up muscle. . . . but hes definitely put on weight.

I agree...I saw him a week or so ago in a white t-shirt...and while not fat per say, he didn't look like he added muscle at all. Kind of has the appearance of someone not working out (athlete wise) imho

FK Mind: "Go Empty. This time we will fool them fer shure!"

I have to wonder what is going on indoors near his brain before some of these calls. Chubb gets lost again in the offense. Mayfield can't answer again (think he should have had one or two more picks).

We looked foolish; they made us look easy. We got secondary players frozen in place as they scored on us just before the half. Shopping for shiny new safeties? Tackles?

Originally Posted By: tru_dawgs

Originally Posted By: willitevachange

Originally Posted By: OldColdDawg

I think Bakers mechanics have been off all season and I think part of it is that he beefed up muscle and weight. We need a QB coach to help him fix that asap. You don't go from being that accurate to throwing floaters and INTs without a reason.

I don't think that's beefed up muscle. . . . but hes definitely put on weight.

I agree...I saw him a week or so ago in a white t-shirt...and while not fat per say, he didn't look like he added muscle at all. Kind of has the appearance of someone not working out (athlete wise) imho

No, hes not fat, but hes put on a few LBS. I think was a few weeks ago, he was getting up on the field after being knocked down, and his stomach was hanging over his pants.

He looks like that 40 year old beer belly drunk cousin, that was a great HS football player and came back for the 15 year HS reunion. I can see that stache and a Budweiser in hand, burping and laughing about the ol' days, with wing sauce on that white Tshirt.

edit: already posted in another thread.

Perhaps his priorities changed after getting married.

Baker is a poor man's Andy Dalton

Quote:

Baker has made some throws but it's like night and day to last year. I don't know enough about football to say why that is.

Yep, I will agree that I don't know enough Xs and Os or route trees or any of that.. but we seem to have two WRs in the same area a lot.. close enough that other defenders are able to peel off their guy and help with coverage. I don't know if that's the play design/call or the receivers making the wrong reads or Baker throwing into coverage when other guys are running wide open...

I am convinced it's because he hasn't had a true QB coach to work with him in this vital sophomore year. Lindley got the job out of pure nepotism. He has no prior experience that should allow him to be in charge of a #1 draft pick, potential franchise QB in their incredibly important 2nd year. One of many poor decisions by Freddie thus far this season. And, quite possibly his worst decision, yet.

Originally Posted By: Iluvmyxstripper

Baker is a poor man's Andy Dalton

thats pretty indigent

Obviously there is a lot that needs to change.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001...my-call-to-make

The Browns as a "team" were not prepared to play this season.

Plenty of blame to go around.

I expect Haslam and Dorsey to address the issues.

Can we address it today? What are we waiting for?

What's the hurry? What difference would one game make under an interim HC that won't be here next year anyway? It would just be doing something for the case of doing something that would accomplish nothing.

Originally Posted By: PitDAWG

What's the hurry? What difference would one game make under an interim HC that won't be here next year anyway? It would just be doing something for the case of doing something that would accomplish nothing.

Agreed. WE can disagree with if Freddie should be let go at seasons end, but to let him go now is pointless.

I really won't disagree whether he is let go or not. But I would tend to believe he is gone.

You just can't end up with the results he has this season with this much talent on the roster and expect to be kept on as HC.

There's just too much money involved to let that stand.

Originally Posted By: PitDAWG

I really won't disagree whether he is let go or not. But I would tend to believe he is gone.

You just can't end up with the results he has this season with this much talent on the roster and expect to be kept on as HC.

There's just too much money involved to let that stand.

You know my opinion on him. And I was a BIG Freddie guy.

But no matter what happens in the offseason, its pointless to fire him before the season is over.

Frankly, I would be all for keeping him record aside if he was at LEAST SHOWING some improvement on things that plaqued us early. But he just is not. The crazy timeouts, bad game management, how hes treated certain things with the roster, saying one thing and doing another, etc. There has been 0 progress from Freddie, and other than Chubb, there really has been 0 players getting better or progressing under him.

Frankly he coached himself out of a job.

There is enough floating around from various sources in addition to the cold hard facts of results.

Pointless to remove with one game to go.

In the end it is up to Haslam. And Freddie has done enough in my mind to seal his fate with Haslam.

I really haven't see the progress one would hope for either.

j/c...

Still talking...

You keep hoping things will change.....

It grows VERY old to see OBJ’s antics, social media stuff from our QB, constant talk, etc when you LOSE ... if we win? Nobody cares and thinks it’s part of our edge

Originally Posted By: PitDAWG

What's the hurry? What difference would one game make under an interim HC that won't be here next year anyway? It would just be doing something for the case of doing something that would accomplish nothing.

To get conversations moving forward with prospective successors rather than allowing them to sign elsewhere.

Originally Posted By: Dawgs4Life

It grows VERY old to see OBJ’s antics, social media stuff from our QB, constant talk, etc when you LOSE ... if we win? Nobody cares and thinks it’s part of our edge

Weird....I see OBJ being minimal distraction, meanwhile I see Baker getting salty with media and having an arrogant attitude. I think OBJ is the least of our issues.

Smart candidates will wait to see which HC positions will open up and consider their offers before committing. Wanting him fired now is just a knee jerk reaction.

Originally Posted By: PDXBrownsFan

Originally Posted By: Dawgs4Life

It grows VERY old to see OBJ’s antics, social media stuff from our QB, constant talk, etc when you LOSE ... if we win? Nobody cares and thinks it’s part of our edge

Weird....I see OBJ being minimal distraction, meanwhile I see Baker getting salty with media and having an arrogant attitude. I think OBJ is the least of our issues.

Have you not sensed a change in attitude in Berea since the acquisition of OBJ? The coaches feel the need to get him the ball, the offense has changed, Baker’s play and persona have changed, the leaders from last year no longer hold the same voice .. he’s changed the entire dynamic. Whether it’s directly or indirectly, OBJ has certainly had his mark on the team IMO.

Originally Posted By: PDXBrownsFan

Originally Posted By: PitDAWG

What's the hurry? What difference would one game make under an interim HC that won't be here next year anyway? It would just be doing something for the case of doing something that would accomplish nothing.

To get conversations moving forward with prospective successors rather than allowing them to sign elsewhere.

ehh, if you are a top candidate you are not going to take to the first gig you interview for. You know there are going to be multiple positions open AFTER the season ends. Anyone that is a THINKER knows this and will wait until they speak to other teams.

If a guy signs somewhere before interviewing anywhere else - I then don't want him to begin with, because it sounds to me hes not worried about WHERE he goes, hes just worried about getting a job as quickly as possible.

My .02

Originally Posted By: Dawgs4Life

Originally Posted By: PDXBrownsFan

Originally Posted By: Dawgs4Life

It grows VERY old to see OBJ’s antics, social media stuff from our QB, constant talk, etc when you LOSE ... if we win? Nobody cares and thinks it’s part of our edge

Weird....I see OBJ being minimal distraction, meanwhile I see Baker getting salty with media and having an arrogant attitude. I think OBJ is the least of our issues.

Have you not sensed a change in attitude in Berea since the acquisition of OBJ? The coaches feel the need to get him the ball, the offense has changed, Baker’s play and persona have changed, the leaders from last year no longer hold the same voice .. he’s changed the entire dynamic. Whether it’s directly or indirectly, OBJ has certainly had his mark on the team IMO.

I watched closely on the TD OBJ got last week. Baker ran up to him to celebrate, and OBJ shrugged him off and ghosted him. At least that's how it looked on TV.

I think last year Baker was the man on this team. He was supposed to be the leader. Odell came in, all the focus was on him - JArvis is his boy, and the guys are gravitating towards odell instead of baker. That has an effect.

bill belichick's record at Cleveland 1st year 6/10 second yr 7/9 3rd year 7/9

Originally Posted By: Dawgs4Life

Originally Posted By: PDXBrownsFan

Originally Posted By: Dawgs4Life

It grows VERY old to see OBJ’s antics, social media stuff from our QB, constant talk, etc when you LOSE ... if we win? Nobody cares and thinks it’s part of our edge

Weird....I see OBJ being minimal distraction, meanwhile I see Baker getting salty with media and having an arrogant attitude. I think OBJ is the least of our issues.

Have you not sensed a change in attitude in Berea since the acquisition of OBJ? The coaches feel the need to get him the ball, the offense has changed, Baker’s play and persona have changed, the leaders from last year no longer hold the same voice .. he’s changed the entire dynamic. Whether it’s directly or indirectly, OBJ has certainly had his mark on the team IMO.

You summed this up nicely.

Originally Posted By: DevilDawg2847

Originally Posted By: Dawgs4Life

Originally Posted By: PDXBrownsFan

Originally Posted By: Dawgs4Life

It grows VERY old to see OBJ’s antics, social media stuff from our QB, constant talk, etc when you LOSE ... if we win? Nobody cares and thinks it’s part of our edge

Weird....I see OBJ being minimal distraction, meanwhile I see Baker getting salty with media and having an arrogant attitude. I think OBJ is the least of our issues.

Have you not sensed a change in attitude in Berea since the acquisition of OBJ? The coaches feel the need to get him the ball, the offense has changed, Baker’s play and persona have changed, the leaders from last year no longer hold the same voice .. he’s changed the entire dynamic. Whether it’s directly or indirectly, OBJ has certainly had his mark on the team IMO.

You summed this up nicely.

And what the Heck is going on with Higgins? He was pretty damn good last year and has been improving every year, until this year.

https://www.news-herald.com/sports/brown...e43225060b.html

Originally Posted By: Rishuz

https://www.news-herald.com/sports/brown...e43225060b.html

I think anyone that watches enough nfl games would agree that Baker just doesn't make very many NFL caliber throws into NFL windows....his accuracy is off the charts bad this year when last year it was the opposite..alot broken right now with baker and its hard to say if its baker or the coaching. But baker's drop off has been substantial

Good article by Schudel .. he’s right, if Baker is the problem we’re screwed for a while. If he has another poor season then we have some big time decisions to make

Baker was a bully that got punched in the mouth this year.

Sometimes when bullies get bullied they lose all their confidence and never recover.

Your move, Bake.

How is Baker a bully?

What aspect of the Cleveland Browns make them bullies? lmao

We WISH were bullies. This ain't the damn playground.

Originally Posted By: BADdog

Originally Posted By: DevilDawg2847

Originally Posted By: Dawgs4Life

Originally Posted By: PDXBrownsFan

Originally Posted By: Dawgs4Life

It grows VERY old to see OBJ’s antics, social media stuff from our QB, constant talk, etc when you LOSE ... if we win? Nobody cares and thinks it’s part of our edge

Weird....I see OBJ being minimal distraction, meanwhile I see Baker getting salty with media and having an arrogant attitude. I think OBJ is the least of our issues.

Have you not sensed a change in attitude in Berea since the acquisition of OBJ? The coaches feel the need to get him the ball, the offense has changed, Baker’s play and persona have changed, the leaders from last year no longer hold the same voice .. he’s changed the entire dynamic. Whether it’s directly or indirectly, OBJ has certainly had his mark on the team IMO.

You summed this up nicely.

And what the Heck is going on with Higgins? He was pretty damn good last year and has been improving every year, until this year.

Higgins, then Njoku... I'd hazard to guess that Freddie has decided to address discipline issues with players who may not have as as strong a personality as others? I'm not saying OBJ or JArvis should be benched or anything, but I find it hard to imagine guys like Higgins or Njoku smarting off to Freddie or any other coach in a worse way than those two have... and in public.

Originally Posted By: leadtheway

Originally Posted By: Rishuz

https://www.news-herald.com/sports/brown...e43225060b.html

I think anyone that watches enough nfl games would agree that Baker just doesn't make very many NFL caliber throws into NFL windows....his accuracy is off the charts bad this year when last year it was the opposite..alot broken right now with baker and its hard to say if its baker or the coaching. But baker's drop off has been substantial

I've noticed 2 things that are obvious to my untrained eye:

1) Bakers foot work isn't like it was last year

2) He's not nearly as disciplined in his execution of plays. Meaning, we don't see those gimmicks or even play action passes where Baker is as cool as a cucumber, like he's done it before.

I suppose the second could influence the first.

I think he is still really good with his pre-snap reads. I don't think it's a coincidence that in our successful drives we often see the offense up at the line before 10 seconds.

Originally Posted By: Dawgs4Life

Good article by Schudel .. he’s right, if Baker is the problem we’re screwed for a while. If he has another poor season then we have some big time decisions to make

I think Baker's career is coming up at a crossroads pretty quickly. IMO what he needs is a coach who is a hard ass, disciplinarian, who is genuinely going to develop and mentor him and turn him in to an actual professional. An expert in his game, not just someone who gets paid like one.

I almost hate to mention Gregg Williams because at this point its almost like pining after Lawrence Vickers still (but take a moment and imagine what it would be like if we had a FB like him????). Say whatever you want about his defensive schemes, the guy clearly was a student of Leadership and set the tone from the moment he met those guys about coming to work. Joe Schobert was looking like he may end up being just another guy until Gregg assessed him, directed him to get in a physical shape that better reflected his body type, even if it meant being a little lighter... and here we are stressing about the odds of Dorsey re-signing a Pro Bowler.

You may get that kind of thing from a top notch position coach, but what are the odds of having someone like that at each position?

Anyway, our RB coach seems to be doing a helluva job with Chubb and Hunt. Maybe he'll be on the short list for HC next year if the position opens up..?

It would be great if:

1) Baker could have an experienced QB Coach.

2) Baker had an experienced mentor. Tyrod flippin Taylor was not it. He needs someone legit to guide him and he does not have this. He has never had this.

Originally Posted By: Rishuz

https://www.news-herald.com/sports/brown...e43225060b.html

It will be a huge problem if Baker is the problem. Seeing that there has been disconnect with this entire team since camp opened, I don't think he is the problem.

Even before camp, during mini's there were reports the team was having trouble installing large parts of the O. It seems they never were able to get it installed. This has been a mess since day one.

Fix that, then we will find out what we have at QB. Since we have seen better last year, I am not all that concerned at this point.

Originally Posted By: Rishuz

Baker was a bully that got punched in the mouth this year.

Sometimes when bullies get bullied they lose all their confidence and never recover.

Your move, Bake.

LOL....you sound like a fool. I don't think you are, but you sure carry on like one.

Originally Posted By: DevilDawg2847

Originally Posted By: leadtheway

Originally Posted By: Rishuz

https://www.news-herald.com/sports/brown...e43225060b.html

I think anyone that watches enough nfl games would agree that Baker just doesn't make very many NFL caliber throws into NFL windows....his accuracy is off the charts bad this year when last year it was the opposite..alot broken right now with baker and its hard to say if its baker or the coaching. But baker's drop off has been substantial

I've noticed 2 things that are obvious to my untrained eye:

1) Bakers foot work isn't like it was last year

2) He's not nearly as disciplined in his execution of plays. Meaning, we don't see those gimmicks or even play action passes where Baker is as cool as a cucumber, like he's done it before.

I suppose the second could influence the first.

I think he is still really good with his pre-snap reads. I don't think it's a coincidence that in our successful drives we often see the offense up at the line before 10 seconds.

I think most of that stems from the standpoint the players don't seem to know what to do. It's hard for a QB to be confidant if he doesn't know if the receivers are going to run the right routes.

This O has been a total mess long before Baker showed sighs of having problems.

We have stiffs at the tackle positions. We weakened the interior of the O-line, expecting the chump Corbett would step in rather than get traded for a sack of footballs.

We added a team wrecker in OBJ.

We have a O coordinator and head coach who mix like oil and water.

Nobody respects the head coach....yep, it's all Baker for sure...lol

Originally Posted By: Ballpeen

Originally Posted By: DevilDawg2847

Originally Posted By: leadtheway

Originally Posted By: Rishuz

https://www.news-herald.com/sports/brown...e43225060b.html

I think anyone that watches enough nfl games would agree that Baker just doesn't make very many NFL caliber throws into NFL windows....his accuracy is off the charts bad this year when last year it was the opposite..alot broken right now with baker and its hard to say if its baker or the coaching. But baker's drop off has been substantial

I've noticed 2 things that are obvious to my untrained eye:

1) Bakers foot work isn't like it was last year

2) He's not nearly as disciplined in his execution of plays. Meaning, we don't see those gimmicks or even play action passes where Baker is as cool as a cucumber, like he's done it before.

I suppose the second could influence the first.

I think he is still really good with his pre-snap reads. I don't think it's a coincidence that in our successful drives we often see the offense up at the line before 10 seconds.

I think most of that stems from the standpoint the players don't seem to know what to do. It's hard for a QB to be confidant if he doesn't know if the receivers are going to run the right routes.

This O has been a total mess long before Baker showed sighs of having problems.

We have stiffs at the tackle positions. We weakened the interior of the O-line, expecting the chump Corbett would step in rather than get traded for a sack of footballs.

We added a team wrecker in OBJ.

We have a O coordinator and head coach who mix like oil and water.

Nobody respects the head coach....yep, it's all Baker for sure...lol

And this is why I find it hard to not put so much blame on Freddie. The lack of organization from the beginning has infected every other aspect.

On top of that Freddie or Dorsey or whomever has been fighting who and what this team actually is every step of the way. Ok, so we intended to be a pass happy, sling the ball all around the field type of offense. Turns out we were better in the run game. I don't understand it, but its like the people in charge are so afraid of fully embracing that.

In a few days we are going to conclude an entire NFL season's worth of games and STILL have no idea what our identity actually is. We've trended toward getting the RBs involved more, but we certainly haven't gotten to a point where anyone can say we're run based.

-We don't use the run to control the clock.
-Our play action is crap.
-We come out empty backfield in short yardage situations. We don't even act like we might run it!

Ugh. I am so over this season. I have been for awhile. It's probably time to tune out until Week 1 of next year and watch Freddie trot out the same exact product, then come to the boards and read how anyone critical of Freddie is just being unreasonable.

Freddie got a bad deal for sure. Dorsey picked his coordinators.

It just hasn't been a good match, but Freddie has done some crazy things, and I like Freddie. After seeing what I have seen, I just don't think he is head coaching material. He knows what to say and he knows what to do, then goes out and doesn't do it.

Sometimes you can't catch that in a interview. You don't know until you see it on the field.

Freddie's problem is he wants to be the good guy. I don't think the head coach can be that. Coordinators can be that, not the head coach. That doesn't mean they have to storm around like a jerk, but they can't be buddies.

Originally Posted By: Ballpeen

Freddie got a bad deal for sure. Dorsey picked his coordinators.

It just hasn't been a good match, but Freddie has done some crazy things, and I like Freddie. After seeing what I have seen, I just don't think he is head coaching material. He knows what to say and he knows what to do, then goes out and doesn't do it.

Sometimes you can't catch that in a interview. You don't know until you see it on the field.

Freddie's problem is he wants to be the good guy. I don't think the head coach can be that. Coordinators can be that, not the head coach. That doesn't mean they have to storm around like a jerk, but they can't be buddies.

Freddie I'm sure is a decent guy and I'm willing to concede his moments of being defensive are probably more due to him finding himself with results he totally didn't expect.

But I also find it difficult to be sympathetic. Any new job has a learning curve. Even good HCs can only go as far as their roster talent will allow them. But things like preparation and organization at that level should be automatic.

I understand all the reasons why Freddie was hired. I really do. But I've seriously soured on the whole concept of bringing in rookie HCs. We bring one in and hire experienced coordinators to help reduce the load. Sometimes we even hire coordinators with prior HC experience to help "mentor". We put guys in the pilot seat who don't have even a near complete tool set, then we wonder why the same guy has little effective control over things.

Go back through the years... pick anyone of our OC or DCs who had previous HC experience... could we have done worse if we had simply brought them in to be the HC instead of the rookie they coached under?

Rookie HCs don't excite me anymore. Neither do college HCs coming up for the same reason. I'm tired of the season long "learning curve" excuse. If it's not a guy with previous HC experience and at least a slightly greater than .500 career average, I'm not even looking at the resume.

I might not close the lid as tightly as you, but I do understand the feeling.

Baker has played timid all year. No confidence in the offense he is running. He may not even believe in it.

He has hardly thrown any deep balls.

He is just managing games and plays like a turtle in his shell.

Not the aggressive Baker of a year ago.

I pray it is just this stupid Freddie offense.

We need a new experienced coaching staff stat!

Originally Posted By: SuperBrown

Baker has played timid all year. No confidence in the offense he is running. He may not even believe in it.

He has hardly thrown any deep balls.

He is just managing games and plays like a turtle in his shell.

Not the aggressive Baker of a year ago.

Do you think counseling may help?

A year or so ago we believed we had found "our" quarterback.

I think it will take another year to see if that is still the case. There are too many variables in play this year to make a true judgement, IMHO. The offense, bar a few periods, was like a misfiring engine.

Originally Posted By: PitDAWG

Originally Posted By: SuperBrown

Baker has played timid all year. No confidence in the offense he is running. He may not even believe in it.

He has hardly thrown any deep balls.

He is just managing games and plays like a turtle in his shell.

Not the aggressive Baker of a year ago.

Do you think counseling may help?

Yea, let's use yours.

Baker Mayfield says he’ll be working hard this offseason, but not with a QB tutor
https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20...ith-a-qb-tutor/

Year 2 for Browns quarterback Baker Mayfield didn’t live up to the promise of his rookie season, and he knows it’s going to take hard offseason work to get back on track in Year 3.

“I already know what exactly I need to work on and improve going forward,” Mayfield said, via the Akron Beacon Journal. “That is the exciting thing about it, it is always a continual process of getting better and improving.”

Mayfield added, however, that he will not hire a private quarterback tutor, as some passers do during the offseason.

“I do not need somebody to teach me how to do a three-step drop,” Mayfield said. “I can look at film and be critical of myself. Throughout this process, I have had people help me out along the way and try and take things from different people. Any time I am around somebody, I ask questions. Do not act like I have it all figured out. There is always room to improve and take things from there and there, but I would not say that I will go on the beach and swim through the ocean and try and learn how to play quarterback by doing that.”

With one game to go, Mayfield’s stats are down across the board this season: He has fewer yards, fewer touchdowns, a lower completion percentage and lower yards per pass, while throwing more interceptions and taking more sacks. However he does it, the Browns need Mayfield to improve in 2020.

He still doesn't get it.

honestly im not sure which way this is gonna go.

i guess i have first know how many QB's have private QB coaches during the offseason to help them. i know its common, but is it really a big thing for a QB to do it or not?

the flip side is....he claims he knows what he needs to work on, but how will he know if he's actually improving or not if nobody is there to coach him during the development? this isnt going to the range and improving your shot or something like this, for example. baker might think his footwork is fine, but then come training camp, the QB coach could be like "bro its trash", and then we're back to the same questions of "what did he actually do in the offseason"?

imo, i think most QB's are too young in their first 3-4 years to be doing things completely on their own. working out, throwing passes into nets and stuff is one thing, but making sure your mechanics are sound and understanding coverages is something different.

i dunno guys. maybe it wont be a problem if we have a new offensive coaching staff. if we keep the same one...ill be worried.

Pitching guru Tom House also tutors top NFL quarterbacks

It is run by Tom House, a former pitching coach in the major leagues and at USC. That's right: Drew Brees, Tom Brady, Carson Palmer, Matt Cassel, Alex Smith and Tim Tebow have all paid a visit to USC this offseason to work with a pitching coach.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d82...fl-quarterbacks

Jared Goff working out with quarterback tutors

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/02/17/jared-goff-working-out-with-quarterback-tutors/

There are several others but I thought these were good examples.

This is where having a strong, mature HC comes in to play. Baker is too early in his career for any aspect of his game to be too trivial. A real HC would work to screw Baker’s head on right.

A coach has no say on what a player does during the off season. Freddie has his share of the blame. Baker being stubborn and thinking he doesn't need help from experts who have worked with great QB's in the past who understood the importance of that isn't the fault of Freddie's.

Not all quarterbacks have to work on the same things.

The Brady's and Drew Brees types are masters of reading defenses. They have been in the league over 20 years. So there work outs will most likely be different than others.

There is only so much that you can do. Once the season is over. The coaching staff whoever that ends being should have a full review of the season.

Each player should have a to do list.

Bakers's list should be developed by the offensive staff in particular the head coach, OC, and qb coach.

Since all that may change Dorsey will be in the loop.

The list:

1. Know the playbook inside and out.
2. Try and make sure that you can work out with key
receivers if possible.
3. Grind on film work especially within the division.
4. Pay special attention in film study to reasons behind
why plays broke down.
5. Be self critical about throwing mechanics and footwork.
If this is obvious in multiple missed throws then work
on what needs correction. If necessary hire a mechanics
coach.
6. In my mind you can never practice enough with your
receivers. Of course they have to want to practice with
you in the off season. Not always possible in cases
like injury rehab.
===================================================

I am fully aware of Tom House. I read his books on pitching many years ago. I went to coaching clinics at Ga. Tech. with John Smoltz. I coached pitching mechanics from what I learned from professionals.

There are perfect mechanics. Brady, Andrew Luck, and others.

However, not all guys can play that way. Rodgers varies away from perfection all the time. Mahomes is another. Rivers has a horrible throwing motion. I can talk this stuff for hours.

Same as hitting a baseball or a golf swing.

Baker came into the NFL as a very accurate passer. It was his strength. It was the main reason he was drafted number one. He has a very sound motion. The NFL is a different game. The speed of the game is a incredible jump from college. Bigger stronger and way faster. DE's, LB's like Myles, Miller, and Mack can run most guys down in a blink of the eye.

Baker has to slow his game down. You do that by knowledge of what you see happening post snap. It has to become instantaneous recognition. Then you slide and just move like Brady, Brees, and Rodgers.

Brady doesn't get sacked. He will toss it away quickly when things don't look right. Instant recognition.

Receivers have to run the routes right. It is about timing. Being in the right place at the right time. Coordination in sync with the drop steps.

Once OTA's begin it should not be about learning what to do. It should be perfecting what to do.

The Browns were not prepared when the season began. The first game was proof. And honestly week to week improvement was not real apparent.

The Browns rarely played as a team all year.

So, Baker has lots to work on and so does the team.

It was mentioned earlier in the thread, and I agree that it appears that Mayfield could be in better physical condition than he is. I'm aware that he's wearing a QB flak jacket, but he looks chubby to me. Not just the belly, but facially too. Sometimes guys reach their middle 20's and grow into their "man body", but IMO, he looks softer and more importantly, slower to me in his reaction to the pass rush.

I also think he needs whomever is calling the plays to get them in more quickly than has been the case this season. Too often we see the Browns approach the LOS with the clock ticking down in single digits while Baker frantically tries to get people who should know where to line up into their proper spot. Its keeping him from having time to make good pre-snap reads, and I think the stress of trying to get the play off is leaking over into his execution.

Unlike Baker, I do believe he would do well to employ a Tom House to drill him on mechanics, because I believe that mechanics are the reason for the overthrows. His footwork isn't what it was last year, and part of that might be due to his being on the heavy side.

Last, I would like the Browns to hire Bernie Kosar as a QB consultant to watch film with Baker for an hour or two per week reviewing that week's opponents' defense. I can hear the groans out there as I type this, because I have said the very same thing for every young QB we have had since '99, but dammit, BK is a frigging football savant when it comes to breaking down defenses. Hell, let the QB coach Lindley sit in if he's still here. He might learn something along with Baker.

Originally Posted By: PitDAWG

He still doesn't get it.

This.

Having a tutor isn't about someone teaching you about a 3-step drop.. it's about adding a different perspective to how you QB. Seeing things in a different light outside of your own.

Originally Posted By: bonefish

Not all quarterbacks have to work on the same things.

The Brady's and Drew Brees types are masters of reading defenses.

Baker reads defenses just fine. He reads them in Braille. So he has to wait for the defensive players to get into contact with him, then he knows what they are doing.

Just saying Tom House is a mechanics expert.

He doesn't teach x's and o's.

I have a sincere interest in new teaching technology based in virtual reality.

http://www.hopesandfears.com/hopes/future/technology/216225-vr-training-in-professional-football

I wonder if the Browns are using this?

Originally Posted By: Tulsa

Originally Posted By: bonefish

Not all quarterbacks have to work on the same things.

The Brady's and Drew Brees types are masters of reading defenses.

Baker reads defenses just fine. He reads them in Braille. So he has to wait for the defensive players to get into contact with him, then he knows what they are doing.

Originally Posted By: bonefish

Just saying Tom House is a mechanics expert.

He doesn't teach x's and o's.

I have a sincere interest in new teaching technology based in virtual reality.

http://www.hopesandfears.com/hopes/future/technology/216225-vr-training-in-professional-football

I wonder if the Browns are using this?

I'm not sure if the Browns are using this (gut feeling, probably not) but if they aren't, they should. The QB needs to be able to react, not think, and a split second can be the difference between a nice pass and a strip sack.

I seem to remember the Vikings using this a couple years back. I thought that was part of the reason for Case Keenum's breakout season that year. Kirk Cousins is quietly playing at an elite level now, despite all the criticism he has taken. I don't know if they are still using virtual reality over there, though it seems like an odd thing to start and then stop using despite it producing great results, so I'm guessing it's still in play.

The article specifically mentions the Vikings and some other teams.

j/c

Very interesting video of Baker last year...first half of this year...and second half of this year. Sheds a great deal of light on "holding the ball" stats and why the offense looks so disjointed (aka not doing enough to keep Baker comfortable).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dx8nXTjEqhI

This same guy has one on L Jackson as well but I haven't had time to watch.

This is worth the 25 minutes to watch.

We're going to have the third best QB in the division.

4th if Ben comes back.

you and 15 are really demoralizing right now.

Just calling it like it is.

And with Baker not willing to get help in the offseason it's just more confirmation that the guy's a loser.

Work hard, be professional, say little, win games.

Our QB does none of that.

And we have 98% of the board defend him.

Originally Posted By: Rishuz

Just calling it like it is.

And with Baker not willing to get help in the offseason it's just more confirmation that the guy's a loser.

Work hard, be professional, say little, win games.

Our QB does none of that.

And we have 98% of the board defend him.

I think you’re going to see that number plummet if he doesn’t start taking his career choice seriously enough to invest the time to become a better professional.

Originally Posted By: Rishuz

.

And we have 98% of the board defend him.

Oh for sure - there's at LEAST 98% of the board that say he's playing great. Future HOFer based on his play this year.

As for your claim to "call it like it is" ... nahhh - calling it like you see it with your jaundiced eyes.

I admit I am hard on Baker...and everyone knows how much he himself needs to improve in certain areas.

However considering this team is in disarray...especially this offense...considering between Freddie and Monken...this O has looked awful (exception Chubb) I wouldn't be surprised in a vast majority of QBs wouldn't struggle with this offense...I mean this offense is so behind that even in week 15 Baker was barking at OBJ to re line him up correctly...obviously it's been difficult for even a veteran to understand...let alone a QB whom was a rookie last year...

I'm willing to wait on Baker until we get an actual coach on the field...and I'm one who said Baker reminds me of Jon Kitna, Manziel, and Fitzpatrick...

And like I said, Baker himself needs to do a lot of improving as well...Or he'll end up a journeyman instead of a franchise QB.

I guess Rex Ryan doesn't look so stupid now

Originally Posted By: Iluvmyxstripper

I guess Rex Ryan doesn't look so stupid now

Or Colin Cowherd. He called everything that would happen this year from Baker on down to the team. He hedged and had the Browns in the playoffs but he called them a fraternity house with no maturity at the beginning of the year. Said last year was Baker's ceiling.

Originally Posted By: Iluvmyxstripper

I guess Rex Ryan doesn't look so stupid now

Rex Ryan always looks stupid.

Originally Posted By: Rishuz

Originally Posted By: Iluvmyxstripper

I guess Rex Ryan doesn't look so stupid now

Or Colin Cowherd. He called everything that would happen this year from Baker on down to the team. He hedged and had the Browns in the playoffs but he called them a fraternity house with no maturity at the beginning of the year. Said last year was Baker's ceiling.

And there you have it.... Colin Cowhered (Shock Jock extraordinaire) said it .... must be true! LOL and yes, Rex Ryan is a moron.

Originally Posted By: Rishuz

Originally Posted By: Iluvmyxstripper

I guess Rex Ryan doesn't look so stupid now

Or Colin Cowherd. He called everything that would happen this year from Baker on down to the team. He hedged and had the Browns in the playoffs but he called them a fraternity house with no maturity at the beginning of the year. Said last year was Baker's ceiling.

Colin Cowherd was so wrong on Baker last year that I'm surprised anyone knows what he's had to say about Baker since then.

The problem with this year - in addition to sucking - is that it answered so few questions...except where it confirmed problems.

Good answers surrounding Chubb and Hunt..Bad answers about how the OL will perform and the impact of the new coordinators...no answer on Baker's immediate future and how Landry/OBJ will co-exist inside the team dynamic.

It's a lost year on multiple fronts.

Cowherd actually said Baker was going to be the best QB of that class year 1 due to his age and number of years of college experience.

Cowherd nailed everything about the Browns this year except the Browns making the playoffs. So the one good thing he had to say he was wrong about.

Is that you Cowturd?

Quote:

https://sports.yahoo.com/browns-baker-ma...-195337203.html

Browns' Baker Mayfield declares he won't work with throwing coach in offseason

Earlier this year, in the New England Patriots’ bye week between the end of the regular season and their first playoff game in the divisional round, Tom Brady spent some time with his personal throwing coach, Tom House.

The then-41-year-old, five-time Super Bowl-winning, three-time NFL MVP had just wrapped an 11-5 regular season that saw him complete 65.8 percent of his passes with 29 touchdowns and 11 interceptions.

He told Boston radio station WEEI at the time that “football is always about technique and fundamentals and the more sound you are — in the bigger games you need to be as sound as possible.”

Brady and the Patriots went on to beat the Los Angeles Rams in Super Bowl LIII.

Brady turned to House, a former Major League Baseball pitcher who also works with Drew Brees and Matt Ryan among other NFL quarterbacks, after his longtime throwing guru, Tom Martinez, died in 2012.

Here it is: Mayfields own quotes:

“I already know what exactly I need to work on and improve going forward,”

“I do not need somebody to teach me how to do a three-step drop,” Mayfield said. “I can look at film and be critical of myself.

Time to move on....TRADE HIM ASAP

This kid has no heart, and he isn't willing to put in the time it takes to become a better QB. More importantly he isn't coachable, he already has everything figured out remember? He knows exactly what he needs to do.

Mayfield is a LOSER and we would be wise to trade him now while he still has value. He isn't coachable, he won't listen, he simply doesn't get it. He thinks he knows more than guys like Tom House that are responsible for some of the great NFL Qb like Tom Brady

Move on, get this loser out of here, he isn't willing to put in the time it takes to be a QB, we don't have time for him.

Baker not working out with a QB coach in the off-season is alarming. Peyton Manning set the standard, now everyone has to do what he did. If you don't you are falling short.

I'm not giving up on Baker, but man next year is a big year for him

Originally Posted By: Rishuz

Cowherd actually said Baker was going to be the best QB of that class year 1 due to his age and number of years of college experience.

Cowherd nailed everything about the Browns this year except the Browns making the playoffs. So the one good thing he had to say he was wrong about.

That's revisionist history and manipulation by Cowherd. Saying he's nailed everything about Baker is such a giant lie it's not funny. CC has hated everything about Baker - or least-ways he has trashed him every opportunity he has ever had. He said he was no better than a 3rd round pick .... so you suggesting CC now claims that Baker was going to be the best in his rookie season is pure fiction.

Funny, cause this season he definitely played like he was drafted in the 3rd round.

I would ask everyone to remember that Baker , at this point , is part of a very dysfunctional Organization . And he is still a kid !

Pretty sure Cowherd said Baker was undraftable.

Originally Posted By: waterdawg

I would ask everyone to remember that Baker , at this point , is part of a very dysfunctional Organization . And he is still a kid !

Baker Mayfield will be 25 in April.

At my age that is still a kid ..lol .. Only two years of Pro-Ball , yep , Youngster..

So first it was Lamar Jackson that first made the playoffs from the 2018 qb draft class.

Now it’s Lamar and josh Allen.

Who will make it next? Baker or Darnold?

Originally Posted By: Swish

So first it was Lamar Jackson that first made the playoffs from the 2018 qb draft class.

Now it’s Lamar and josh Allen.

Who will make it next? Baker or Darnold?

Don't forget Josh Rosen!

You think Flores will back Rosen? They did spend a 2nd on him, and maybe saved him from disaster this season on purpose.

Originally Posted By: Swish

You think Flores will back Rosen? They did spend a 2nd on him, and maybe saved him from disaster this season on purpose.

Replace Brady with Rosen. Prosper.

(I was joking.)

Originally Posted By: waterdawg

I would ask everyone to remember that Baker , at this point , is part of a very dysfunctional Organization . And he is still a kid !

That's why he should have been benched 10 games ago...

The kid is rattled and can't handle pressure, he is just playing awful.

Jimmy Haslam talked about utilizing Baker Mayfield properly with formations and certain play calls.

When the Browns ran a play action boot, they were successful on 73.7%, best in the NFL by a large margin (10.6%).

They ran it the 4th fewest times in the NFL

https://twitter.com/JohnKosko3/status/1213087842685112324

Originally Posted By: GratefulDawg

Jimmy Haslam talked about utilizing Baker Mayfield properly with formations and certain play calls.

When the Browns ran a play action boot, they were successful on 73.7%, best in the NFL by a large margin (10.6%).

They ran it the 4th fewest times in the NFL

https://twitter.com/JohnKosko3/status/1213087842685112324

All Fredded up...

Originally Posted By: GratefulDawg

Jimmy Haslam talked about utilizing Baker Mayfield properly with formations and certain play calls.

When the Browns ran a play action boot, they were successful on 73.7%, best in the NFL by a large margin (10.6%).

They ran it the 4th fewest times in the NFL

https://twitter.com/JohnKosko3/status/1213087842685112324

Maybe it worked so well because it was such a surprise to the defense that we used it. Caught them off guard.

When a new coach takes over, and he has a system, he has to find out what parts of his system a QB can, and cannot run.

I can't remember off hand which coach said it, I think it might have been Bill Walsh, but his point was that a QB could never learn his system (WCO, IIRC) in a year or 2. It took 3 to 4 years for a QB to become proficient. However, that wouldn't work here .... because unless the arrow goes almost straight upward, the coach is gone.

The fact this team didn't run play action, regardless of who the QB was behind center, is mind-boggling. The fact it wasn't run enough w/ Baker is, well, fireable.

Originally Posted By: cfrs15

The way I read that Tweet is that the ones that are confident in him aren't many. Also, the fact that we're already talking about fixing Baker is horrifying.

Originally Posted By: oobernoober

Originally Posted By: cfrs15

The way I read that Tweet is that the ones that are confident in him aren't many. Also, the fact that we're already talking about fixing Baker is horrifying.

It depends on how many "some" is. Some could be twenty, it could be four.

Agreed. I didn't want to make it sound like I was asserting anything, only how I, personally, read the Tweet.

This is. . . different.

Look at him next to Rex. Baker ain't fat.

May he FINALLY be maturing ... that’d be great for us and his ma ...

He hasn't been phat either.

For those that can't see tweets "Dave"

Rex Ryan and Baker Mayfield come face-to-face to address 'overrated as hell' comments | Get Up

I’m trying to find it, but someone posted on twitter a picture of Baker’s body now compared to two years ago. It was different lol

Originally Posted By: devicedawg

Look at him next to Rex. Baker ain't fat.

Baker doesn't look fat there but he doesn't look all that great, either (though much better than Rex Ryan, obviously.)

Just saying.. Baker is a 24 year old professional athlete. 30-40 year olds at the gym I go to that look to be in better shape than him are a dime a dozen. In some cases, even older. At 24 it should be pretty easy.

It does look like he's trimmed up some since the end of the season.

Thanks, GD.

He's saying all the right things. I hope he means it.

Nick Wright and James Harrison are joined by Cleveland Browns' quarterback Baker Mayfield in Miami for Super Bowl week. Baker holds himself accountable for his part in the Browns' disappointing season, and details the steps he's taking to focus and become a better quarterback for his team.

baker really did well with these interviews.

Not in Kansas anymore.

The NFL will humble you. And Baker got a heavy dose.

I like what he is saying. I expect him to improve.

The Browns need him to play better in order to win.

I have never doubted his intent. It is just the the path the has been questionable.

Well said. He’s gotta get back to work and fine tune his preparation

I agree... Took all the punches and placed the blame squarely on his shoulders.

We're starting to see a trend, between the interviews with Baker, Jarvis, OBJ and others. Although they're all being pretty PC and not throwing anyone under the bus, the overriding theme is "not being on the same page". Take it for what it's worth I guess, but I'm starting to think the relationship between Freddie and Monken, and how weekday preparation translated to game day, were major culprits to our lack of success. May seem obvious as a problem but the "problem" may have been more of a "disease".

I'm hoping for more of a clear-cut approach to scheme, and the necessary approach and discipline to execution, with this new staff... From day one if at all possible.

Not fat!?
Not fat compared to Rex Ryan.
He sure as hell doesn't look like a world class athlete either.

Quote:

I’m trying to find it, but someone posted on twitter a picture of Baker’s body now compared to two years ago. It was different lol

Might be Freddie was telling Baker you have to be thick skinned to be a QB...Baker looked at Freddie and... Well... Thick it is...

...they do say dogs (Browns reference) take after their owners.

Forget dad bod, he's subconsciously going for the rich, white, grandpa/oil baron bod.

Look back at Tom Brady's combine photos. Look at Brady Quinn's. What matters for QBs is what is between their ears and can they sling the football.

This This!!

Originally Posted By: FATE

I agree... Took all the punches and placed the blame squarely on his shoulders.

We're starting to see a trend, between the interviews with Baker, Jarvis, OBJ and others. Although they're all being pretty PC and not throwing anyone under the bus, the overriding theme is "not being on the same page". Take it for what it's worth I guess, but I'm starting to think the relationship between Freddie and Monken, and how weekday preparation translated to game day, were major culprits to our lack of success. May seem obvious as a problem but the "problem" may have been more of a "disease".

I'm hoping for more of a clear-cut approach to scheme, and the necessary approach and discipline to execution, with this new staff... From day one if at all possible.

For starters, it would be good if Odell knows where to line up for the various play calls. It would give Baker a little more time for pre-snap reads if he didn't have to move Beckham to the right spot while the play clock ticks down. It would also help if the play caller gets the play in to Baker with more than 10 seconds on the play clock.

Originally Posted By: devicedawg

Look at him next to Rex. Baker ain't fat.

But why'e he wearing his pajamas?

Originally Posted By: Swish

baker really did well with these interviews.

Whomever prepped the talking points set it up well.
Let's hope it's something real and not just "good TV" that's part of a little PR blitz.

Originally Posted By: PrplPplEater

Originally Posted By: Swish

baker really did well with these interviews.

Whomever prepped the talking points set it up well.
Let's hope it's something real and not just "good TV" that's part of a little PR blitz.

Even if it's just "good TV" he's at least pretending to not get caught up in the much, which is different than before. We'll know if he's really changed if we get an Instagram story of George Whitfield chasing him around with a broom on the beach.

Originally Posted By: cfrs15

Originally Posted By: PrplPplEater

Originally Posted By: Swish

baker really did well with these interviews.

Whomever prepped the talking points set it up well.
Let's hope it's something real and not just "good TV" that's part of a little PR blitz.

Even if it's just "good TV" he's at least pretending to not get caught up in the much, which is different than before. We'll know if he's really changed if we get an Instagram story of George Whitfield chasing him around with a broom on the beach.

Or did Baker just fool everyone this morning on Get Up!?...

He also used this phrase during the FS1 interview.

Creating plausible deniability. Well played, Baker!

Originally Posted By: devicedawg

Look at him next to Rex. Baker ain't fat.

Originally Posted By: cfrs15

Wow. Well, I thought it would be zombies, maybe it still will be... Obviously the world is coming to an end!

Shooting more lame commercials? Glad to hear he handled it well. Did he pay Cowherd off?

The "Baker's fat" thing may be one of the dumbest things to roll through Cleveland in quite some time (insert Freddie joke there).

I defy any one of you to honestly say you would not have done the commercials if they came up to you and said, “Here’s a couple million, we need you for three days in the off-season.”

Shut up about the commercials. It’s his life and if he wants to do them, it’s his choice.

Those days meant nothing. Nothing.

I sincerely hope that in one of Stefansky’s first meetings with the whole team he not-so-gently suggests that players just stfu this season and do their talking on the field. Especially when Mary Kay is anywhere in earshot. We gladly painted a big ol’ target on our own backs last year and the rest of the league and national press was more than happy to add any extra jabs they felt compelled to spare. Let’s maybe take the quiet approach this year, thank you very much.

Originally Posted By: 10YrOvernightSuccess

I sincerely hope that in one of Stefansky’s first meetings with the whole team he not-so-gently suggests that players just stfu this season and do their talking on the field. Especially when Mary Kay is anywhere in earshot. We gladly painted a big ol’ target on our own backs last year and the rest of the league and national press was more than happy to add any extra jabs they felt compelled to spare. Let’s maybe take the quiet approach this year, thank you very much.

If there is any truth to the old saying that teams take on the personality of their HCs, then we will see a quiet, focused, and hard working team. When Stefansky was being interviewed, they ask him what kind of team people can expect with him as coach. His answer was “tough and smart”. It was quite impressive that these were the first words out of his mouth. And he answered quickly.

Originally Posted By: Hamfist

I defy any one of you to honestly say you would not have done the commercials if they came up to you and said, “Here’s a couple million, we need you for three days in the off-season.”

Shut up about the commercials. It’s his life and if he wants to do them, it’s his choice.

Those days meant nothing. Nothing.

Yep - as much as the commercials got under my skin because we were losing and Baker's play wasn't good .... it really is his life, and a couple days shooting them is not going to make ANY difference to his performance next year. And everything I see, hear and read about with Stefanski, I am so far impressed. Sure it means nothing till they play meaningful football - but it's better than being unimpressed and thinking he doesn't sound up to the job.

Originally Posted By: Haus

Originally Posted By: devicedawg

Look at him next to Rex. Baker ain't fat.

Baker doesn't look fat there but he doesn't look all that great, either (though much better than Rex Ryan, obviously.)

Just saying.. Baker is a 24 year old professional athlete. 30-40 year olds at the gym I go to that look to be in better shape than him are a dime a dozen. In some cases, even older. At 24 it should be pretty easy.

It does look like he's trimmed up some since the end of the season.

Baker to me looks like someone who has lost an appreciable amount of weight in a very short time.

Part of that weight may have been named Freddy. Do the commercials. Your life to earn your dime.

Just win, baby. Might as well argue that the honeymoon wrecked him. Just win. baby!

Originally Posted By: Bard Dawg

Part of that weight may have been named Freddy. Do the commercials. Your life to earn your dime.

Just win, baby. Might as well argue that the honeymoon wrecked him. Just win. baby!

One thing I really did like about Baker's interview and his humility.. either he's already had 'the talk' with Stefanski and is falling in line (which is great that Stefanski can establish himself like that) OR maybe Baker's got enough self awareness and maturity and realizes he needs to put his best foot forward with the new coach coming in. OR a combination of both.

In any event I found Baker's tone pretty impressive.

Originally Posted By: DevilDawg2847

Originally Posted By: Bard Dawg

Part of that weight may have been named Freddy. Do the commercials. Your life to earn your dime.

Just win, baby. Might as well argue that the honeymoon wrecked him. Just win. baby!

One thing I really did like about Baker's interview and his humility.. either he's already had 'the talk' with Stefanski and is falling in line (which is great that Stefanski can establish himself like that) OR maybe Baker's got enough self awareness and maturity and realizes he needs to put his best foot forward with the new coach coming in. OR a combination of both.

In any event I found Baker's tone pretty impressive.

Agreed. He was pretty humbled in late-season interviews +...he knows he missed the mark for 2019.

His wife probably told him to quit being a jerk because his future kids will be able to find all his interviews on YouTube.

Quote:

His wife probably told him to quit being a jerk because his future kids will be able to find all his interviews on YouTube.

I'm soooo glad that My Twenties happened decades before the internet.

Even so, there are still 'analogue folks' around who know s# about me from back then.... and they can transfer even Polaroids to digital now-

Ugh.

It's pretty much the reason behind why I'll never run for public office...

Originally Posted By: Clemdawg

It's pretty much the reason behind why I'll never run for public office...

Why not? I expect your 'transgressions' were likely of a lesser sort than some of those politicians currently in office...

Actions speak louder than words. Let's hope he can walk the walk.

Originally Posted By: bbrowns32

Originally Posted By: Clemdawg

It's pretty much the reason behind why I'll never run for public office...

Why not? I expect your 'transgressions' were likely of a lesser sort than some of those politicians currently in office...

I wouldn't be so sure about that.

Are we talking about a lot of Polaroids, Clem? I mean, I am retired, but I only have so much time available for this. Maybe I could just do enough for a highlight reel. I would have to buy a bigger computer maybe.

Kidding.

How bad could any of our 20's be? No, really?

Originally Posted By: bbrowns32

Originally Posted By: Clemdawg

It's pretty much the reason behind why I'll never run for public office...

Why not? I expect your 'transgressions' were likely of a lesser sort than some of those politicians currently in office...

Suffice it to say, I'll neither confirm nor deny the validity of that observation...

Originally Posted By: Clemdawg

Originally Posted By: bbrowns32

Originally Posted By: Clemdawg

It's pretty much the reason behind why I'll never run for public office...

Why not? I expect your 'transgressions' were likely of a lesser sort than some of those politicians currently in office...

Suffice it to say, I'll neither confirm nor deny the validity of that observation...

...

,

. Probably best not...

Originally Posted By: Clemdawg

Suffice it to say, I'll neither confirm nor deny the validity of that observation...

That certainly sounds like something a politician would say to me.

From the Van Pelt news conference:
1. He's going to work with Baker's feet A LOT.
2. He's not encouraging Baker to seek an "off-team" QB specialist in the off-season. Van Pelt wants to be the one to give Baker off-season direction, of course not directly.

I've never understood why Baker has his left foot so radically far back when he's under center. As a former QB, it would seem to severely restrict his motion to the right.

Quote:

He's not encouraging Baker to seek an "off-team" QB specialist in the off-season.

This is going to upset A LOT of people here.

Originally Posted By: devicedawg

Quote:

He's not encouraging Baker to seek an "off-team" QB specialist in the off-season.

This is going to upset A LOT of people here.

probably not. because of the second half of what he said

The second part has been said, but there is a contingency here that believes Baker MUST work with an "offteam" QB specialist in the offseason.

Baker is a hard working individual, even in the offseason despite what some will lead you to believe. For some, there's still a lingering hangover from the Johnny Era that we have to endure.

Originally Posted By: devicedawg

Baker is a hard working individual, even in the offseason despite what some will lead you to believe.

Please inform the board of what he was doing during the off season last year that validates this.

Originally Posted By: devicedawg

there is a contingency here that believes Baker MUST work with an "offteam" QB specialist in the offseason.

Never seen a post from those folks.
I've seen plenty from people saying that it is perfectly fine to workout with a coach outside of the team. I've also seen - and made - posts regarding strength & conditioning that your "offteam" coach can be a LOT better than the one on the team. In general, the only statements I've seen are ones debunking that a player is always best served by staying with the team coaches.... and that has not changed at all.

Originally Posted By: PitDAWG

Originally Posted By: devicedawg

Baker is a hard working individual, even in the offseason despite what some will lead you to believe.

Please inform the board of what he was doing during the off season last year that validates this.

He got married last offseason .. depending on your fiancee, that can be one helluva lot of work ..

From Van Pelt:

"3. But Van Pelt said Mayfield needed to put his best foot forward — his left foot — when he is in the shotgun. Van Pelt said Mayfield has his right foot forward right now, and that needs to change. “That allows the quarterback to play with more rhythm.”

4. Van Pelt said he’s already talked about the change with Mayfield. He stressed footwork “is extremely important to me and Kevin (Stefanski). It all starts with the feet.”

5. Something was wrong with Mayfield last season. His completion percentage dropped from 63.8 as a rookie to 59.4, the lowest of any NFL starter except Buffalo’s Josh Allen (58.8). Van Pelt said 64 percent is a goal for Mayfield.

6. Does Mayfield need to be challenged? I think so. Stefanski likes his QBs to play more under center than Mayfield did in the past. He prefers to run more play-action fakes to running backs to set up passing plays. Van Pelt said the proper footwork is especially important on those short, timing throws that will be a big part of the new offense."

Baker's numbers off play action were better than when not in play action.

When you watch Brady and Peyton in the past run play action their play action footwork is flawless. Their fakes flawless in execution.

Baker has had three head coaches and coordinators and a number of qb coaches.

It would be a good thing to have a single message.

The plan apparently is more play action. Footwork is critical.

It will be interesting to see if Baker improves under a new system with emphasis on play action and short timing throws? Also with coaching that places a premium on quarterback footwork in order to execute?

Baker in the past has always had a reputation as a hard worker.

I expect him to put in the work. I expect him to be teachable and take on this new challenge.

I am hopeful that Van Pelt and Stefanski can get the best that Baker has to offer.

Appropriate emoji. Since I don't do them.

That actually was pretty pretty funny.

Originally Posted By: Halfback32

Originally Posted By: PitDAWG

Originally Posted By: devicedawg

Baker is a hard working individual, even in the offseason despite what some will lead you to believe.

Please inform the board of what he was doing during the off season last year that validates this.

He got married last offseason .. depending on your fiancee, that can be one helluva lot of work ..

It was rough enough he ended up in a Cheesecake Factory parking lot!

Good post.

Quote:

4. Van Pelt said he’s already talked about the change with Mayfield. He stressed footwork “is extremely important to me and Kevin (Stefanski). It all starts with the feet.”

There was this one poster who talked quite about about how important footwork is for a QB and how Baker should work on it during the off-season. He even said that when Baker was inaccurate on some of his passes in his rookie season it was due to some issues w/his footwork.

Of course, that poster was ridiculed [not by you] and was told he had an "agenda."

You are a sports guy. I know you understand just how important your footwork is in every sport.

In coaching baseball, I always watched for stride length and hip rotation. A long stride usually tended to increase velocity, but limited hip rotation. If the rotation was limited too much, the ball would tend to sail (depending on other mechanics ). If the stride was too short, velocity would go down. You had to find the right stride, and hip rotation for the pitcher. Once you found that, it is a matter of repetition and muscle memory ( also depending on other mechanics ).

Good post.

Hip rotation is huge for increasing power, whether it be throwing a ball, hitting a baseball or golf ball, kicking soccer style, etc.

You also mentioned muscle memory. I've always found that to be huge. It's hard to learn to undo bad mechanics/habits, especially in the heat of competition. That is why it is so important to work out on your own on the improving the little things.

Sounds like you're trying to change your story. I recall you insisting he needed to work with a QB Guru in the offseason. You were not ridiculed for saying he needed to work on things in the offseason, you were ridiculed for making crap up about Baker not working on his craft in the previous offseason, and acting like he did nothing to better himself when you had no idea.

I don't recall anyone saying he didn't need to work on things in the offseason. That's more made up BS.

If you're going to attempt to belittle posters and make yourself look good, at least get your facts right and stop misleading people in typical fashion.

Thanks much.

Originally Posted By: Halfback32

In coaching baseball, I always watched for stride length and hip rotation. A long stride usually tended to increase velocity, but limited hip rotation. If the rotation was limited too much, the ball would tend to sail (depending on other mechanics ). If the stride was too short, velocity would go down. You had to find the right stride, and hip rotation for the pitcher. Once you found that, it is a matter of repetition and muscle memory ( also depending on other mechanics ).

Hip ( core) rotation is imperative if you want to increase velocity, the faster the spin of the core the faster the arm can move through the throwing motion and the increase in velocity. A longer stride can in fact limit velocity if the twitchig muscles are limited in their motion and overwhelmed by the larger back and hip muscle groups. That's said, without that explosion started with the twitch velocity will not increase no matter the stride length.

It seemed to me that BM's stance was too wide when he planted his back foot at the end of his drops, that in itself will limit the turn of the core and create more difficulty in trying to gain power ( velocity) from the arm only, this is what will put excessive strain on the shoulder and elbow on a pitcher and while the motions are a little different the general physiology still applies. If a pitcher opens up when landing the result are pitches high and usually to the ball side ( right side on a RH). JMO

Originally Posted By: devicedawg

Sounds like you're trying to change your story. I recall you insisting he needed to work with a QB Guru in the offseason. You were not ridiculed for saying he needed to work on things in the offseason, you were ridiculed for making crap up about Baker not working on his craft in the previous offseason, and acting like he did nothing to better himself when you had no idea.

I don't recall anyone saying he didn't need to work on things in the offseason. That's more made up BS.

If you're going to attempt to belittle posters and make yourself look good, at least get your facts right and stop misleading people in typical fashion.

Thanks much.

And yet, Baker pretty much admitted that he didn't work hard enough/take it seriously enough heading into last season. Also, dude got married last offseason. Common sense says he had other things going on that took up significant time that didn't directly improve him as a QB.

I'm a Baker fan, but that doesn't override what I see/hear. When you hear "I didn't think it would be this hard" from the horse's mouth, that should be pretty clear message.

You may have a point if that's what was in question.

If what was in question is the slap-fight going on, then yes. I ignored that.

He had workouts set up with teammates during the offseason but I do think two things did come into effect.

HE GOT MARRIED that took up a lot of the offseason time for him and that transition.

He got mega TV Ad deals which had to be a distraction.

He will get back on track also remember this what leadership do we have on the team??? A rookie, A 2nd year QB in a new system and now a 3rd year QB in another NEW SYSTEM and coach. Remember we just don't have any stability for a young QB to learn this is how we do things here.

jmhobservation

Bro ,,, bake himself said during the year ,,,,

I DIDN’T THINK IT WOULD BE THIS HARD ,,,

Thats not a statement someone who worked hard would say ,,,

I think he will work his arse off this season cause he EMBARRASSED HIMSELF last year ... Possibly the BIGGEST piece of humble pie ever ,,,,

Here’s to next year ,,,

I certainly agree with you about the stability factor. Hopefully this time around the coaching staff and FO will be successful enough to be here for a while. It could only help Baker establish some continuity and repetition which would help any young QB.

And I would say his demand for endorsements has probably diminished some since the 2019 season is complete.

You can work hard and still say, "I didn't think it would be this hard.

It would have been easier with better coaching as well.

Carry on.

Originally Posted By: oobernoober

If what was in question is the slap-fight going on, then yes. I ignored that.

I am not part of that fight. I ignore him and a few others. I have asked them if it would be okay if we didn't speak anymore because it ruins threads when we bicker. I just want that to be clear.

More on Baker: Hey Diam: I think Baker actually said something like "We thought it would be easy." There were also the things about "taking time away from football." There were quotes about not working w/a guy who was sweeping a broom at his feet by the ocean or something like that.

I do think he should have worked on his mechanics last year and I think he should this year, as well. I don't care if that chaps someone's butt. My opinion on that won't change. And I don't like the term "QB guru." I like the term "QB coach."

The greatest golfers in the world have swing coaches. There are private hitting coaches. Shooting coaches. Speed coaches. Most of the greatest players in all of sports hire private coaches to help them improve and fine-tune their game. I'm not going to feel bad for thinking Baker should do the same, no matter what anyone says w/their personal comments.

Originally Posted By: devicedawg

You can work hard and still say, "I didn't think it would be this hard.

It would have been easier with better coaching as well.

Carry on.

Ya, I’m sure that was the case here Mr. Mayfield ...

U sure it wasn’t the overpaid ones fault ....

...

I wonder who the menZa was that liked your post ... I’ll guess it was your fellow sashiette Memph ....

Click the link and read the name, menZa

LOL............I don't know why, but I adore the "menZa" moniker. Some might even say I am one of them.

Originally Posted By: PrplPplEater

Click the link and read the name, menZa

Naaa ...then I’d be a dolt ...

...

I want to clarify something from my last post about Baker working out in the off-season. I was not angry about him not working w/a coach and his fundamentals last year. I just think it was a mistake not to. I think it will be a mistake if he doesn't do it this year, either. I'm not angry about it.

I'm just saying that is how you get better. I don't know how many of you have played competitive sports, but it's far more for most folks than just showing up and working w/your coaches. You learn from your coaches in practice. You also learn to understand what they expect from a positional aspect and from yourself. You talk to older guys and try to glean information as to how to get better at what you do. If you have the money, you hire a private coach whose freaking livelihood is centered around building a rep for improving players. That is how House got so big. Jordan Palmer's stock as a private coach has rapidly escalated the past several years. Players talk. They stuff like "this guy is good." Or, "man, this dude made a difference." Did you know that D. Watson travels w/his personal QB coach. It's not just about drills. It's about all kinds of things. Nutrition. Mindset. Film study. Nuances of the position.

It's all about gaining a competitive advantage and that is what most athletes desire more than anything. If you have not heard about this, y'all should research the relationship that Tom "Freaking" Brady has w/some of his support guys. He has had multiple guys helping him over the years and a ton of them have worked w/him AFTER he won multiple Super Bowls.

So no, I am not angry about Baker choosing to not work w/a personal coach, but I will express my opinion in regards to I think it would be a wise decision for his career while benefiting the Browns, as well.

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Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog

More on Baker: Hey Diam: I think Baker actually said something like "We thought it would be easy." There were also the things about "taking time away from football."

I've seen a lot of posts about truth and accuracy and being critical when an opinion is posted as fact etc. A lot of attention to things people assume or repeat without validity .... So I'm curious on this point. If Baker EVER said he thought anything about the NFL was going to be easy, then he'd go down several notches in my opinion .... That would be a moronic thing for Baker to say or to suggest. So the question is - is there any truth to this ? Or is this one of the speculation? Any link or quotes available ?

Baker's various statements to the media last year isn't exactly a master course in how you conduct yourself with a camera/mic in your face.

Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog

LOL............I don't know why, but I adore the "menZa" moniker. Some might even say I am one of them.

Originally Posted By: mgh888

Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog

More on Baker: Hey Diam: I think Baker actually said something like "We thought it would be easy." There were also the things about "taking time away from football."

I've seen a lot of posts about truth and accuracy and being critical when an opinion is posted as fact etc. A lot of attention to things people assume or repeat without validity .... So I'm curious on this point. If Baker EVER said he thought anything about the NFL was going to be easy, then he'd go down several notches in my opinion .... That would be a moronic thing for Baker to say or to suggest. So the question is - is there any truth to this ? Or is this one of the speculation? Any link or quotes available ?

From September 25, 2019:

“We expected to have success early on,” Mayfield said. “That is the frustrating part is we wanted it to be easy but now we really know. It is not. People are going to game-plan, they are going to have a certain strategy for us and we need to be able to adapt. Talent is not going to take us there, and we just have to do our job.”

He went on to say that the team needs to take preparation much more seriously...

“We are very close. We are very close to putting together the game that our offense needs to have,” Mayfield said. “That is why we have to be even more focused on the little details. Details are what really matters.”

Sounds like an indictment of the entire operation. Justifiably so, we were 1-2 and staring at the Ravens. Four days later, we punched them in the mouth, 40-25.

https://www.brownszone.com/2019/09/25/fr...omment-asinine/

Wow. I agree and indictment on the entire organization, but man what a ridiculously stupid thing to think and a stupid thing to say. SMH. He better come back more motivated than ever.

I guess I can see why a lot of people may feel that way. It seems to me that the reason is because it's not PC, though. Part of the list of "Things Baker shouldn't say ~ just because". I mean, he didn't say anything that wasn't true, did he? He spoke candidly, accepted his blame, and challenged his team to take a look in the mirror.

I'm fine with facts, just tired of stupid excuses. For a young man that has regularly made dumb and immature statements, I really had no problem with those ones.

What you say is completely fair, my frustration was with the one sentence or comment saying they wanted it to be easy. I mean they might have been referring to scheme, keeping things simple ... Maybe a few things. It equally could mean that after success and his rookie season they thought things would come easily. Sort of ambiguous but I still think it's a little naive to make that kind of comment.

At this point none of it really truly matters, what have you done for me lately? When the season starts, his play at that time will be the only thing that counts.

Yep. It was the mindset that started the snowball. It came from the top down (in my opinion) and spread throughout the entire NFL. Fans and talking heads alike thought it would be easy.

And now it's up to Baker to shoulder the load. Regardless of scheme, coaches, or other personnel, it's his performance going forward that's the real litmus test.

That said, if the entire organization didn't learn the lesson, we're in big trouble. Winning football requires a lot of moving parts and people to synchronize them so that they move and perform like a world-class ballet. Part of that ballet is learning what to say and what not to say, Baker needs to show some improvement in that aspect as well.

Ironically enough, those comments came on the same day as the response to Rex Ryan... A clear example of what not to say.

Originally Posted By: YTownBrownsFan

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I would not trust that link. MenZa is spelled wrong.

Good discussion and relevant points.

It made me wonder "if" Baker would have had the fortunate opportunity that Mahomes had.

Drafted to a mature team with a great proven head coach. A head coach who knows how to develop a quarterback. The benefit of sitting for a full season behind a very good quarterback.

Playing in the same system with the same coaches for the entire time.

Baker came from success in college in a college system. Drafted numero uno. Was expected to sit behind a veteran. Then all that has happened since then.

Not exactly the blueprint for developing a quarterback.

Baker needs coaching. But that coaching needs to be proper coaching and consistent. Van Pelt comes in and says right off the bat I need to change his footwork out of shotgun?

Where was Ryan Lindley, Haley, Monken and Freddie?

So Baker comes from success in college to the Browns and right away changes happen during the season and after the season. Then new players new schemes.

Jarvis and Odell didn't practice with Baker as much as what needed to take place.

Now both are recovering from surgeries.

Perfect practice makes perfect. Not just practice.

In addition maturity with the media takes maturity.

You don't get to practice that. You learn by putting your foot in your mouth a number of times.

When the 2020 season begins we will find out what how much learning has been retained.

Originally Posted By: mgh888

What you say is completely fair, my frustration was with the one sentence or comment saying they wanted it to be easy. I mean they might have been referring to scheme, keeping things simple ... Maybe a few things. It equally could mean that after success and his rookie season they thought things would come easily. Sort of ambiguous but I still think it's a little naive to make that kind of comment.

At this point none of it really truly matters, what have you done for me lately? When the season starts, his play at that time will be the only thing that counts.

I interpreted a bit different. I read it as they wanted the new system/staff/roster to come together and start working well without too much difficulty. That’s simply my take on that one sentence.

No offense, bro..........but, I don't agree w/part of this take.

I certainly don't agree w/the Mahomes comparison. Baker had two very good QB coaches in Hue and Haley. They both had success w/multiple qbs.

I think the difference is that Mahomes was willing to sit and learn and Baker was incredulous that he had to sit. I think he disliked both guys because of it. Even before he was drafted, it has been my contention that his personality has been a problem. You read stuff about guys like Lamar working so hard to get better during the off-season and then read stuff from Baker saying he doesn't need help w/his 3-step drop or a guy sweeping a broom at his feet.

I'll never forget watching the victory celebration after the Browns beat Baltimore early on in in the 2018-19 season. Hue was talking the team up and almost everyone was so happy and excited. Guys were jumping around and Peppers almost knocked Hue down because he was so excited. And then there is Baker, wearing a white ball cap and walking around saying crap to guys. The looks on their faces told me what his message was even though I couldn't hear him.

Baker wanted Freddie and Lindley. That's not a secret except on this board. I believe that he resented his coaches because he was not handed the starting job. Mahomes didn't pull that kind of crap. Neither did Lamar.

Leadership isn't something that is given. It must be earned.

There is a chance Baker learned from his mistakes and realizes his potential. I am not saying he is a bust. I am saying his attitude is an issue. I think folks blaming the people around Baker are barking up the wrong tree.

That is just my opinion and I will discuss this further w/you and some other reasonable posters, but I will NOT respond to those who come at me w/the usual insults. Hell, I posted Baker's stats twice and you think I had called him the worst names in the book by the comments from some of his biggest defenders.

One last thing.............why is it okay to question/criticize other Brown's players and not Baker? Aren't they ALL part of the team?

How it all went down we don't really know.

We can only speculate.

The fact is it happened. Hue wanted Baker to sit behind Taylor. Baker was forced into play by injury. Hue and Haley were gone soon after. So Van Pelt comes in now and says he needs to change his feet position out of the gun. They have not been on the field together yet. How come none of the above made that change? Hue and Haley had him from OTA's. Then Freddie and Monken had him.

Did they try and Baker said I am not changing. I doubt that. He came from a spread in college. Not much if any under center.

The changes happened. How? Why?

It doesn't matter.

My point is simple it went down and it is not the formula to develop a quarterback.

If Baker had gone to the Chiefs or a situation that was similar; the results may well have been different. Even under those changes he set the rookie record for TD's.

Hue, Haley, Monken, Lindley, Freddie all may have had different opinions. No matter the problem is too many coaches and nothing consistent.

Big Ben, Mahomes and others were not faced with all the crap that has taken place since Baker became a Brown.

I am not going to rehash the whole Baker thing. It has been beaten to death.

In the past quarterback development was a thought out process. The route that went down with Mahomes was the norm. Hue wanted that. It just didn't happen.

We disagree. I think it's pretty obvious to see that Baker's accuracy was much worse in his second season than his first. If you can't see that, than I don't know what to tell you.

Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog

I'll never forget watching the victory celebration after the Browns beat Baltimore early on in in the 2018-19 season. Hue was talking the team up and almost everyone was so happy and excited. Guys were jumping around and Peppers almost knocked Hue down because he was so excited. And then there is Baker, wearing a white ball cap and walking around saying crap to guys. The looks on their faces told me what his message was even though I couldn't hear him.

I'm not following. What are you saying here?

Watch it for yourself. It was on YouTube.

Originally Posted By: Rishuz

Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog

I'll never forget watching the victory celebration after the Browns beat Baltimore early on in in the 2018-19 season. Hue was talking the team up and almost everyone was so happy and excited. Guys were jumping around and Peppers almost knocked Hue down because he was so excited. And then there is Baker, wearing a white ball cap and walking around saying crap to guys. The looks on their faces told me what his message was even though I couldn't hear him.

I'm not following. What are you saying here?

Baker = bad. Sends negative messages through osmosis.

Even if I watch it how am I supposed to tell what he is saying? What do you think he was saying?

Pretend you are a grown-up and make up your own mind. Btw......I just read that crap you wrote on another thread. Take a freaking hike.

Why can't you just answer the question?

You made a generic claim to paint someone you don't like in a bad light and are being asked for clarification. You don't have to give it but why make the claim if you're not willing to discuss it or go into more detail?

And I would take a hike but rain is in the forecast today.

There is no disputing his drop in performance. That is not what I am saying.

I don't think anyone would dispute that starting on your fourth head coach and OC in three years is not how you develop a quarterback.

Originally Posted By: CapCity Dawg

Originally Posted By: YTownBrownsFan

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I would not trust that link. MenZa is spelled wrong.

Best bartender ever .... thanks for the

bro ...

Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog

We disagree. I think it's pretty obvious to see that Baker's accuracy was much worse in his second season than his first. If you can't see that, than I don't know what to tell you.

It's not that people disagree on his accuracy, it's the why his accuracy was worse. You kind of seem overly focused on Baker.

How much does confidence play into accuracy?

Between bad drops and running plays they hadn't practiced, lack of confidence seemed to creep in some. It's hard to throw with authority when you're not sure what your pass catchers are going to do. Throw in two bad, banged up OTs, a rotation of RGs, and it's not a good mix.

Here's hoping we can get everyone on the same page and see better results.

j/c

I've come to this party late, so I haven't read the whole thread. Many times in football when trying to analyze offensive failure there is a lot of focus on the QB. To me that's tricky. There are a lot of variables in this equation. I don't think winning hinges on personality alone. Unitas, Brady and good Ol' Payton Manning are just a few who were known to have an edge about them.

The problems come from a sense of entitlement. I don't know if that's what I'm seeing in Mayfield or if it's just an enormous resentment (chip) built up from being doubted throughout his career.

This year will tell us a lot. He must change his game for the team to get better. That's obvious. He's going to have to take more snaps under center. He needs to take the QB coaching and whatever that entails. I hope the offense will truly be "run first" and he'll need to accept that for the sake of the team's success and his own success. I want him to take the underneath, six-yard completion on 2nd and 9 or whatever. Instead of trying to throw a dart through a tight window between two defenders 20 yards downfield.

Also, I want him to do what he said in his interview with Rex Ryan. Don't be overly clever, cute or confrontational with the media. Keep your head down Baker, keep grinding every day and internalize your motivations. Lead the team to sustained success on the field then you can talk all the shizzle you want.

Quote:

One last thing.............why is it okay to question/criticize other Brown's players and not Baker? Aren't they ALL part of the team?

There is no problem criticizing any player on the team. But in your case you provide no evidence to support your claims. You add a narrative to an incident and posit that must be the truth based on your predetermined notions. You further say you're not going to provide evidence to your stance, but everyone should just go find a video or article for themselves and come to the same conclusion as you or they're not being truthful.

Originally Posted By: devicedawg

Quote:

One last thing.............why is it okay to question/criticize other Brown's players and not Baker? Aren't they ALL part of the team?

There is no problem criticizing any player on the team. But in your case you provide no evidence to support your claims. You add a narrative to an incident and posit that must be the truth based on your predetermined notions. You further say you're not going to provide evidence to your stance, but everyone should just go find a video or article for themselves and come to the same conclusion as you or they're not being truthful.

If you don't watch the clip and come to the same conclusions you are being deceitful!

What a moron Vers is ... focusing on Bake on why Bake was so inaccurate this year ... silly man ...

...

Originally Posted By: DiamDawg

What a moron Vers is ... focusing on Bake on why Bake was so inaccurate this year ... silly man ...

...

I'm trying to calmly and rationally point something out and you go riling people up for no reason.

Yes, Baker was part of the problem, but pointing at him to the exclusion of everything else is seemingly a bit biased.

You know better than to come here without an agenda.

Short version: Hard work wins when Talent doesn't put in the Hard Work.

j/c:

There are a group of posters here who do not debate fairly. They misrepresent what some others say. I have PMed them and asked them on the board that we shouldn't talk to one another because it ruins threads and turns into stupid bickering. They can't accept that.

For the record............I NEVER once said that Baker was the "exclusive" problem. That is just a lie. I am also not going to reply to folks who are clearly trying to start a fight.

I will respond to folks like bonefish. He and I obviously disagreed, but he can speak his mind w/out hurling insults and twisting my words around. I have ZERO problem w/him and others who disagree w/my opinion. Differences of opinion are a good thing. Lies and bullying are not.

I really liked your post. It was honest wand well stated, but I do want to address this quote:

Quote:

Also, I want him to do what he said in his interview with Rex Ryan. Don't be overly clever, cute or confrontational with the media. Keep your head down Baker, keep grinding every day and internalize your motivations.

Not so sure Baker was being contrite. Check out this post from Milk Man. Look at the link and watch Baker's reaction. Not sure what you think, but it seems like Baker is making fun of Rex. I think the dude is a total ass!

Quote:

Or did Baker just fool everyone this morning on Get Up!?...

Milk said something like this was "well played" by Baker.

And then, there is this.

https://www.barstoolsports.com/blog/1769...-under-his-nose

Thanks for the props for my post. I respect your opinion on Mayfield. I haven't made my final determination on him. If he continues to conduct himself as he has up to now and the team doesn't improve he will cement his reputation.

I recall it was at least a year ago that you made it known that Mayfield rubbed you the wrong way. You have been consistent in your position and have been willing to defend it. Even in the face of considerable push back. Again, I respect your conviction. That stuff you last posted reflects on Baker as juvenile and immature. I don't see Mahomes or Lamar or Watson or Goff or other young QBs placing themselves or their teams in these compromising situations. The risk involved is that other peoples' interpretation could become a distraction for the team. And if the team is underperforming by extension the QB, "the Face of the Franchise" will get muddied up in the process.

Somebody purposely put those two clips together. It wasn't Mayfield but by being goaded into some snide quip he looks bad. I'm not aware of the context about the feet thing so maybe if I understood it, I'd feel more strongly.

Social media and today's "gotcha" culture set traps. Mayfield has to be smart enough to not fall into them.

I agree w/you about the clips. I watched Baker on Get Up and I was impressed. He seemed to have matured. Then, Milk posted that video and I wasn't sure what to make of it. I'm still not sure, but it's bad news if he did that intentionally. Hopefully, it was a coincidence.

If the narrative of the other clip led to the Get Up clip... I'm still fine with it. I don't really have a problem with Baker giving it back to the media, especially clowns like Rex and Tony and the like. That's as long as he has his on-field stuff squared away. I do believe that he'll use the humble pie he got this past season appropriately.

Does it win or lose games? I think not.

If it does not, then it is just media and audience being busy with what they choose to be embroiled about. This social media is mostly manufactured noise to me.

Meh. I hope BM and his under-performance last season helps to get this season off on the right foot (ouch — too soon?).

ESPN Cleveland suspends reporter for using 'derogatory slur' to describe Baker Mayfield
Chris Cwik
Chris Cwik
Yahoo SportsFebruary 25, 2020, 2:59 PM EST
An ESPN Cleveland host was suspended after using a derogatory slur to describe Cleveland Browns quarterback Baker Mayfield. (AP Photo/David Richard)
An ESPN Cleveland host was suspended after using a derogatory slur to describe Cleveland Browns quarterback Baker Mayfield. (AP Photo/David Richard)
An ESPN Cleveland radio personality has been suspended by the station after using “a derogatory slur to describe Little People” when talking about Cleveland Browns quarterback Baker Mayfield. Tony Grossi, who has gotten into it with Mayfield in the past, was caught using the term on a hot mic.

Grossi, 63, believed he was off the air when he made the comment. After being presented with all the quarterbacks the Browns have passed on in recent years, Grossi responds by saying, “And who do we got? A f---ing midget.”

ESPN Cleveland suspended Grossi indefinitely following that comment. In a statement, ESPN Cleveland said it “will not tolerate derogatory language that demeans others or groups of people.” The station also apologized to “our fans, our partners, the Browns and Baker Mayfield.”

ESPN Cleveland
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Good Karma Brands — which is listed at the bottom of the statement — is a media conglomerate that manages several ESPN affiliates, including ESPN Cleveland.

The term “midget” is considered a derogatory slur, according to the Little People of America. The organization asked people to abolish the term in 2015.

Following the suspension, Grossi apologized “to anyone who was offended by my remark.”

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It’s far from the first time Grossi has expressed displeasure with Mayfield. Grossi has been one of Mayfield’s biggest critics, and the reason Mayfield stormed out of an interview during the season. While the two have butted heads a couple times, Grossi’s comments Tuesday crossed the line.

It’s unclear when — or if — Grossi will return from his suspension. Mayfield has yet to comment on the issue.

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/espn-clevel...-195907353.html

The twitter comments from the story did not copy .. the link is included

I hope Mayfield takes the high road and just let it go.

But I doubt he does.

Originally Posted By: FloridaFan

I hope Mayfield takes the high road and just let it go.

But I doubt he does.

A "no comment" would be very nice.

Originally Posted By: Rishuz

Originally Posted By: FloridaFan

I hope Mayfield takes the high road and just let it go.

But I doubt he does.

A "no comment" would be very nice.

That would KILL Grossi if he said that.. Sometimes saying less.. hurts people more.

I died laughing with this Benjamin Albright tweet.. He hates Tony.

People need to quit being offended about everything. Now Midget is a bad word?

What Grossi said was an accident. Who cares except a bunch of sissies. He dropped a F-bomb, so what. Are your ears bleeding?

Goldhammer offends me everytime he opens his mouth. Everybody I know hates Goldhammer's guts but Grossi gets suspended for a F-bomb.

Originally Posted By: Rishuz

Originally Posted By: FloridaFan

I hope Mayfield takes the high road and just let it go.

But I doubt he does.

A "no comment" would be very nice.

Unfortunately, he'll probably say,"no comment, I'm going to be the bigger man."

LMBO

I'll be sending my $8.50 to Baker.

Grossi is a jerk and keeps on proving it.

I would've preferred he got suspended indefinitely for being terrible at his job.

I love what Grossi said about Mayfield. He shouldn't apologize for it either. He is absolutely right. Mayfield IS a midget by NFL QB Standards. Furthermore, so what? who would be offended by midget?

I have never liked Mayfield, as Triple H would say "He is guy who is over-rated and buys a bit too much into his own hype"

He is a one hit wonder, he will never have a season anywhere close to what he did as a rookie. NFL DC have figured Mayfield out, He is a short guy with limited athletic ability and an above average arm...NFL has had a lot of those kinda guys over the years...some of them not as short as Mayfield, but Mayfield checks all the boxes for an average NFL QB...He is a poor man's Case Keenum at best.

Browns fans of course will cling to this bum for years, if Berry had any brains at all he would try and sign Teddy Bridgewater, and if he can then he trades Mayfield while he still has value. If we go into the season with Mayfield again he is going to tank his value completely and we will be lucky to get a sandwich for him.

You don't play as god awful as he did last year if your any good in this league. Last year wasn't a "sophomore slump" You have sophomore slumps, and then you got a whole other level of suckage that Mayfield showed last year. Mayfield didn't have a sophomore slump last year, he completely bombed! That was some of the worst QB play in the NFL in the last 20 years. He mechanics were awful, inability to throw guys open, inability to throw deep despite having time, and he was flat out scared back there.

He talks a big game, but in reality he is just a decent college QB and a sucky NFL QB who can't shut up and refuses to humble himself.

I pray that Stephanski gets ****** at his refusal to put in the extra work needed, and sours on him in the next month or two and ships is arrogant *** the **** out of here so we can move on.

There are many viable NFL starter quality Qb out there this year that would be UPGRADES over Mayfield that are FA such as:

Teddy Bridgewater
Tom Brady
Drew Brees
Dak Prescott
Case Keenum
Ryan Tannenhill
Phillip Rivers

Yeah some of those guys are a pipe dream(Brady & Brees) but ya know...i'd take Phillip Rivers over Mayfield in 2020 any day...old or not, im tired of losing...I want to win and Mayfield isn't it. Rivers makes us a 12 win team with OBJ, Beckham, Hunt and Landry.

I'd also like Keenum he already knows Stephanski system, and had a pretty good year with the Vikes with Stephanski, and by all acounts is a good hard working guy that has had some success. Last year in 8 games with Washington he had a 64.5% 11 TD to only 5 INTS thats not bad considering Washington was a mess last year with no OL

We have enough talent on this team that we CAN barter the future by bringing in a guy like Rivers. We could very likely win a Super Bowl next year with a guy like Rivers, guys rally around the dude. He isn't done. I'd even go so far as if we could get Brady sign him, even if its only 1 year, who cares about Mayfield, sit down and shut up, we need to win before Landry, Hunt, OBJ, and Chubb are gone, the Window is closing fast and we don't have time to waste it with a bum like Mayfield.

An important focus for the #Browns heading into 2020: QB Baker Mayfield’s fitness and body makeup. From what I understand, he put on some weight last year to bulk up and lost some quickness. His plan is to be slimmer & faster this year, with an emphasis on being in better shape.

https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/1232654295146913794

Originally Posted By: Dawg Duty

People need to quit being offended about everything. Now Midget is a bad word?

What Grossi said was an accident. Who cares except a bunch of sissies. He dropped a F-bomb, so what. Are your ears bleeding?

Goldhammer offends me everytime he opens his mouth. Everybody I know hates Goldhammer's guts but Grossi gets suspended for a F-bomb.

To little people, midget is their 'N' word. And that is the reason for his suspension, the F bomb was just a side penalty.

I think we all noticed it, but he needs to trim some of that weight. He looks like he aged 15 years on 1 year .... and when you start messing with body comp too much it can throw you off

Quoting Triple H?

Nice.

You're Tony Grossi!

WE DIDN'T EXPECT IT TO BE EASY was the quote...then said something like they wanted it to be easy and it wasn't.

Footwork...Stefanski already said they will be working on it.

Mark me as one who was wrong in the expectations with Kitchens as HC...he was terrible.

But quite frankly you don't need an off season coach...keep in mind I don't think the NFLPA allows them to be coached in the off season which I think is stupid.

But most off season camps is arranged by the coaching staff..not the individuals from what I remember.

He's a hard worker again coaching last year was so Laize-fare they all thought they were just going to produce like no other and of course the media stroked them in that direction.

the kid always was a hard worker our present coach seems to be a perfectionist he will hopefully put the entire offense back on track. Baker will once again prove to all that he is one of the most accurate passers in the NFL and he has a natural gun. All should be good, we did miss Njoku and Coleman for sure. OBJ had none of his great speed last season due to injury. But Baker from what I saw was consistently HIGH on his throws....don't know what that was about except I thought his drops were not deep enough.

jmho

From Summer School to the Super Bowl for Brady, Ryan

Matt Ryan and Tom Brady didn’t get to Houston by accident. Here’s the story of how offseason work with a couple baseball pitchers benefited both QBs. Plus items on Dan Quinn, the Indy mess and six draft storylines

https://www.si.com/nfl/2017/01/26/matt-ryan-tom-brady-super-bowl-51-nfl-notes

Good read on how much these guys have worked with and helped some great QB's. Then there are those that are so good they simply don't need them.

Re OBJ:

I think Odell's injury affected his speed about the least of his physical abilities. It was more his ability to change direction, bend, stretch, and twist that were severely hampered.

OBJ hit the 11th fastest top speed in the league last year at 21.7 mph. That was faster than Tyreek Hill hit all season.

https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/top-plays/fastest-ball-carriers

Baker is not the kind of player that takes failure and ridicule lightly. I think he will go back to working hard to be successful. He now has a coach that will be right there with him and knows what he is doing. I have a feeling he will be much better this year. JMO

Jc

As the resident baker mayfield fence rider on this board, we have a new FO, new coaching staff, and hopefully better O line.

I’m moving on from bakers past comments. I liked what I saw from the interviews he did during SB week, and I have no reason to believe he won’t take this off season seriously.

People need to let it go.

Originally Posted By: Swish

Jc

People need to let it go.

On this board?

People still have agenda and personal rifts from 10 years ago that infiltrate every topic.

We still talk about Sashi, like he's in the building for Pete's sake.

Bro it’s just that I was looking at the Vikings offense and....I mean hopefully all of us are in agreement that baker is better than Kirk cousins.

So I gotta think that stefanski might have the easiest transition out of any new HC.

He’s going from cousins to mayfield.

From diggs and theilen to Landry and OBJ

Rudolph to Njoku

And cook to Chubb and hunt.

Upgrade the o line, and we actually have a decent chance this year to be the team we’re supposed to have been last year.

Hopefully baker learned his lesson and looks at the Vikings O and gets excited and motivated.

2018 Baker was better than Kirk Cousins. 2019 Baker wasn't. We'll just have to see what we get with 2020 Baker.

Originally Posted By: FloridaFan

Originally Posted By: Swish

Jc

People need to let it go.

On this board?

People still have agenda and personal rifts from 10 years ago that infiltrate every topic.

We still talk about Sashi, like he's in the building for Pete's sake.

There's actually a hidden shrine to Sashi in the building that the analytics guys go to pray to for divine guidance. His martyrdom led to his being granted sainthood from the church of analytics.

Quote:

I mean hopefully all of us are in agreement that baker is better than Kirk cousins.

I think that is a stretch. Baker might turn out to be the better qb, but I don't think you can say that at this point.

Cousins stats were far superior and PFF had him ranked 12 spots ahead of Baker.

Yet folks use to make fun of me for saying (give them three years)before you start passing judgement.

Originally Posted By: GMdawg

Yet folks use to make fun of me for saying (give them three years)before you start passing judgement.

We thought you were saying "give it three beers!"

Oh come on that's only 15 min.

Cousins was way better than Baker last year.

Cousins is like Alex Smith a underappreciated quarterback. Maybe not the highest ceiling but solid players who can win with a decent cast behind them.

The 2019 season for the Browns was a case of talent not reaching their potential. There were many factors at play that pushed the end results. Plenty of blame to spread around.

At this point I am ready to put that season behind us. Freddie dug his own grave. Although the record was a failure there were some good things that did happen.

Landry was a baller. Odell played hurt and was not what he can be. Chubb proved what he is. Myles was ready to dominate until that game ended his season. Schobert was very good. Mack Wilson showed potential. Greedy looks like he will be a good player. The kicking game improved. Baker did not play well but he had his moments and I still believe in his potential.

Personally I have not payed attention to this years draft and will probably not get into it till it is over. At that point I will research the players drafted.

I have little expectations regarding the new regime. That is not a negative statement. I have no idea what to expect so I am very open and will judge them once the season begins. After going through so many regime changes I am numb to anything coming out of Berea regarding what to expect. If I hear "we're exciting about the direction of the team" again I will puke.

"Prove it" is my motto this year. That goes for the new regime, Baker, Odell, Myles, and every part of the team.

You are your record. When I see them play real games I will know what we have.

General reply to the "Baker vs Cousins" sub-conversation...

I do think Cousins was better than Baker this past year. I also think that Baker's ceiling is MUCH higher than Cousins. I would be really disappointed if I went forward in time and found out that Baker only got to be as good as Cousins.

Lastly, I don't think having Cousins in the Browns offense would've made a significant difference. Yes, Baker played poorly, but the problem was much MUCH bigger than 1 player.

Originally Posted By: GMdawg

Yet folks use to make fun of me for saying (give them three years)before you start passing judgement.

I agree w/that. I think it is fine to talk about what the player is doing at the current time and to make observations, but it's smarter to wait until about half-way through a dude's third season.

I thought folks were off their rockers [or trying to win an argument] when they were talking about the HOF, multiple Super Bowls, and the best qb in the game. I tried to point out that a lot of QBs regress in year 2. Of course, that was ridiculed.

I also don't agree w/those who say that Baker is a bust. There is talk that Dorsey failed because he is linked to Baker.

I think Baker has a chance to be good. I think it is dumb to proclaim him a bust or a franchise qb at this point in his career. I will say that I believe this is a huge year for him.

Originally Posted By: bonefish

Cousins was way better than Baker last year.

Cousins is like Alex Smith a underappreciated quarterback. Maybe not the highest ceiling but solid players who can win with a decent cast behind them.

The 2019 season for the Browns was a case of talent not reaching their potential. There were many factors at play that pushed the end results. Plenty of blame to spread around.

At this point I am ready to put that season behind us. Freddie dug his own grave. Although the record was a failure there were some good things that did happen.

Landry was a baller. Odell played hurt and was not what he can be. Chubb proved what he is. Myles was ready to dominate until that game ended his season. Schobert was very good. Mack Wilson showed potential. Greedy looks like he will be a good player. The kicking game improved. Baker did not play well but he had his moments and I still believe in his potential.

Personally I have not payed attention to this years draft and will probably not get into it till it is over. At that point I will research the players drafted.

I have little expectations regarding the new regime. That is not a negative statement. I have no idea what to expect so I am very open and will judge them once the season begins. After going through so many regime changes I am numb to anything coming out of Berea regarding what to expect. If I hear "we're exciting about the direction of the team" again I will puke.

"Prove it" is my motto this year. That goes for the new regime, Baker, Odell, Myles, and every part of the team.

You are your record. When I see them play real games I will know what we have.

In some ways, I am glad last season played out like it did. One can only hope it was a learning experience from expectations, attitude, maturity, self-control, etc.

Upon further examination:

https://www.yardbarker.com/nfl/articles/..._13132_31410824

People can take this article as they see fit. I am just posting it. At least the guy backs up what he is saying.

My take was Baker had his moments and they were not all bad.

I believe in his potential.

Great article. Thanks for passing it along.

I wish there were more clips justifying the takes, but it is what it is.

I disagree with some points he makes, but overall I think he's fair. He's clearly in Mayfield's corner, and doesn't hide it.

I think he accurately communicated what was going on with a portion of those interceptions (bounced off/ripped out of the receivers hands), but I think it's a bit misleading to highlight that and not mention the plenty of passes that should've been picked but weren't. Also, he glosses over passes that were caught but should've been more accurate.

Agree...

I've said this numerous times, not only here but to my friends outside of here...

Quote:

I would bet the house on Mayfield seeing a big decline in his interception total in 2020.

For those insistent that coaching wasn't a factor...

Quote:

Kitchens, fired in the offseason, did a poor job making the most of his offensive talent. He was too reliant on a screen game that was not effective and ill-suited to the skills of his quarterback. His passing concepts were regularly unproductive, often leaving Mayfield with few options.

And I love and agree with this.

Quote:

He should continue on the path he set for himself in 2018, and become a top-10 quarterback with MVP potential.

Originally Posted By: devicedawg

Agree...

I've said this numerous times, not only here but to my friends outside of here...

Quote:

I would bet the house on Mayfield seeing a big decline in his interception total in 2020.

For those insistent that coaching wasn't a factor...

Quote:

Kitchens, fired in the offseason, did a poor job making the most of his offensive talent. He was too reliant on a screen game that was not effective and ill-suited to the skills of his quarterback. His passing concepts were regularly unproductive, often leaving Mayfield with few options.

And I love and agree with this.

Quote:

He should continue on the path he set for himself in 2018, and become a top-10 quarterback with MVP potential.

I'm actually with you on this. Overall, I think it was a good, overall fair, and accurate article. I also like that he doesn't attempt to hide his being in Mayfield's corner. I agree with the article as a whole even though I want to argue specific points.

Originally Posted By: FloridaFan

In some ways, I am glad last season played out like it did. One can only hope it was a learning experience from expectations, attitude, maturity, self-control, etc.

Are you referencing the team, the fan base, or both?

Originally Posted By: devicedawg

Agree...

I've said this numerous times, not only here but to my friends outside of here...

Quote:

I would bet the house on Mayfield seeing a big decline in his interception total in 2020.

For those insistent that coaching wasn't a factor...

Quote:

Kitchens, fired in the offseason, did a poor job making the most of his offensive talent. He was too reliant on a screen game that was not effective and ill-suited to the skills of his quarterback. His passing concepts were regularly unproductive, often leaving Mayfield with few options.

And I love and agree with this.

Quote:

He should continue on the path he set for himself in 2018, and become a top-10 quarterback with MVP potential.

There is no underestimating how bad the Kitchen/Monken marriage was. Reports out of camp is it wasn't going smoothly.

They were right.

I feel bad for John. He has to be kicking himself for those hiring decisions.

Dorsey's decision to hire Freddie cost him his job.

A job he wanted and put his heart and soul into.

Coaches are hired and fired all the time. Hiring one bad coach does not usually equate to losing one's job as a GM.

Compounding the problem, Dorsey took a trash roster and turned it into one of the most talented in the league in just two years. Yes, he had ammo to work with, but he also made a lot of other great moves. Firing Dorsey was ignorant and unfair.

In this case it cost him his job.

If the team won 10 games or more Freddie would still have a job and obviously Dorsey.

No doubt Dorsey feels horrible about how it all turned out. It was a perfect deal for him to resurrect the franchise. Make his mark and highlight his career. He spent a lot of time preparing himself for the opportunity. He wrote a book on it. It is easy to question after the fact. The Zeitler Vernon deal at the time it made perfect sense. It just did not work out. Vernon was injured and Corbett bombed.

He put a bunch of talent on the team and it was no accident.

Bro, my point is that it shouldn't have cost him his job. Was Kiem fired after he fired Wilks in AZ after one year? Was Gettleman fired in NY after firing a couple of coaches? I could go on and on and on and on...

The problem is that Haslam never got rid of the rest of Sashi's crew and they knocked heads w/Dorsey and his guys. I don't blame them. They had a plan. I also don't blame Dorsey and his guys because why would they want to listen to a bunch of guys who made so many poor roster decisions?

Bro, it was a manufactured [not intentionally] disaster waiting to happen. As soon as the Browns started to struggle, you can bet your bottom dollar that Depo was on the phone from SD w/Haslam about what a mistake it was to give Dorsey so much power. Haslam took a back seat when Freddie was hired and you can guarantee that he did not like it. He sided w/Depo and company and forced Dorsey and company out.

We are now stuck w/the dumb guys yet again and the guys who improved our roster by leaps and bounds are gone.

I believe there's more to it than just a poor coaching hire and a few losses.

You know Dorsey was my guy and I feel he got shafted.

However, I am willing to give Stefanski and Berry their chance. Even though Berry and Depo were there.

I won't judge them till I see what they do and the results.

Even though it doesn't mean a thing at this point I like Stefanski and Berry. They both seem like bright guys with a good solid background.

But when you have been witness to failure from people like Holmgren and our revolving door policy you just become numb.

Like all of us I just want success.

I get it. I wasn't arguing w/you. Just venting at how wrong I think the Browns were again. Firing Dorsey and losing the guys that came w/him is the single most confounding decision the Browns have made since their rebirth.

Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog

Bro, my point is that it shouldn't have cost him his job. Was Kiem fired after he fired Wilks in AZ after one year? Was Gettleman fired in NY after firing a couple of coaches? I could go on and on and on and on...

The problem is that Haslam never got rid of the rest of Sashi's crew and they knocked heads w/Dorsey and his guys. I don't blame them. They had a plan. I also don't blame Dorsey and his guys because why would they want to listen to a bunch of guys who made so many poor roster decisions?

Bro, it was a manufactured [not intentionally] disaster waiting to happen. As soon as the Browns started to struggle, you can bet your bottom dollar that Depo was on the phone from SD w/Haslam about what a mistake it was to give Dorsey so much power. Haslam took a back seat when Freddie was hired and you can guarantee that he did not like it. He sided w/Depo and company and forced Dorsey and company out.

We are now stuck w/the dumb guys yet again and the guys who improved our roster by leaps and bounds are gone.

John Dorsey wasn't fired for hiring Kitchens. He wasn't even fired for the team's record. He wasn't fired/forced out at all. They asked
him to accept a change in role because his job title was General Manager and not just Top Talent Evaluator. They wanted him to stay top talent evaluator, but he had shown that he was terrible at managing people through both seasons.

It would have been great to keep him as head scout. He wasn't down for that. If someone is great at 1/4 of their job, but bad at the other 3/4 a company isn't going to leave them in that position if they want to be competitive. They're going to try to put him in a position where he can focus on the things he's great at.

We actually have smart guys now. Calling them dumb seems poorly aimed. Questioning Haslam is fine, but implying that Berry is dumb is beneath you.

Calling someone like Berry with his CV “dumb” is dumb.

jc...

Dorsey wasn't fired.
Dorsey wasn't fired.
Dorsey wasn't fired.
Dorsey wasn't fired.
Dorsey wasn't fired.
Dorsey wasn't fired.
Dorsey wasn't fired.
Dorsey wasn't fired.
Dorsey wasn't fired.

might as well have been.

Originally Posted By: Swish

might as well have been.

Aha! Finally someone with access to the front office. What went down bro?

flew to close to the sun, and crashed. too big headed for his own good.

j/c

Is this a "Baker" thread? Or another "Dorsey-brought-in-a-ton-of-talent-even-tho-no-one-will-list-out-said-talent" thread?

We’re topic fluid on this board.

Originally Posted By: WSU Willie

j/c

Is this a "Baker" thread? Or another "Dorsey-brought-in-a-ton-of-talent-even-tho-no-one-will-list-out-said-talent" thread?

Not been following much since Stefanski was hired. I have noted a distinct increase in personal posts but other than that not really seen what's being said. I haven't started considering the draft yet or any of the usual off season stuff ....

What's the board consensus on the talent that Dorsey brought in?

Personally I'd say it's impossible to judge - the big trades that brought OBJ and Vernon here are impossible to judge. Baker - and I am a HUGE fan - is still a huge question mark at this stage. Greedy - similarly has questions. So how can anyone form a definitive "he was great" or "he was awful" conclusion? jmo

didn't Vernon miss half the season and Greedy missed the other half.

j/c:

Quote:

Browns

Footwork? Lose weight? Find a backup? What about Cleveland Browns messages to Baker Mayfield?

By Terry Pluto, The Plain Dealer

ABOUT BAKER MAYFIELD

Think back a year ago.

Baker Mayfield was coming off a powerhouse season where the Cleveland Browns QB set an NFL rookie record for TD passes. Freddie Kitchens was named head coach, primarily because of his success calling plays for Mayfield.

Digging deeper, that was the problem.

Kitchens owed his job at least in part to Mayfield. And Mayfield was smart enough to know that.

It created an unhealthy situation, especially when things went poorly for both men. It led to Kitchens being fired after a 6-10 season. Mayfield ranked near the bottom in several QB ratings for starters.

We can debate if Mayfield fell into the trap of entitlement. He had commercials and magazine covers while the Browns hype went into what we now know was ridiculous overdrive.

For whatever reason, Mayfield wasn’t the same QB as he was his rookie year. Kitchens was overwhelmed. In the end, the front office and most of the coaching staff were fired while Mayfield lost some of his rookie-year glitter.

THINGS HAVE CHANGED

The biggest job for Kevin Stefanski and the new coaching staff is to get Mayfield back to his 2018 form.

It’s important to realize Stefanski and new GM Andrew Berry aren’t as attached to Mayfield as was Kitchens. There was a sense from some players that Mayfield wasn’t pushed as hard as needed by the former coaching staff.

That won’t be the situation in 2020.

With Berry in charge, the Browns are stressing the need for everyone to deliver the same message. At their introductory press conferences, Berry and Stefanski stressed their confidence in Mayfield.

“The sky is the limit for Baker," said Stefanski. But the coach also said he had a “detailed plan” set for Mayfield. The same is true for other players.

Part of that plan involves changing Mayfield’s footwork, as new offensive coordinator Alex Van Pelt explained at his press conference. Most fans know there were times when Mayfield was off balance when he threw the ball.

“It all starts with the feet,” said Van Pelt, adding it’s important to “me and Kevin (Stefanski)” that Mayfield make some adjustments.

Something was wrong as too many of his passes sailed high in 2019, especially compared to his rookie season. That also could be a footwork problem.

CHANGE THE SHAPE

The NFL Network’s Ian Rapoport reported the Browns want Mayfield to be “slimmer.”

I was told the new Browns regime doesn’t want to leave the impression that Mayfield was horribly out-of-shape. But Mayfield’s off-season plan to add muscle and bulk to be stronger for 2019 didn’t work.

The good news in 2019 was Mayfield became only the second Browns QB since 1999 to start all 16 games (Tim Couch in 2001 was the other). But he looked slower and less athletic than in 2018.

I don’t know much about Mayfield’s physical condition in 2019, other than he was able to survive all 16 games. But I do like the idea the Browns want him to work on his footwork. I anticipate he will take more snaps directly under center, and that puts a premium on quick feet.

Want faster feet and better balance? Have less bulk. That makes sense.

For what it’s worth, at the 2018 NFL Combine, Mayfield was measured at 6-foot, 5/8th inches and weighed 215. At the end of the 2019 season, the Browns listed Mayfield at 6-foot-1, 215 pounds. So according to that, he didn’t gain any weight.

But last August, Mayfield admitted he put on some weight for 2019, but declined to say how much.
BAKER & CASE KEENUM

Cleveland Browns quarterback Baker Mayfield and Denver Broncos quarterback Case Keenum talk after the game in 2018. Photo by Joshua Gunter / cleveland.comcleveland.com

ABOUT A BACKUP

Veteran Drew Stanton missed all last season because of a knee injury, meaning rookie Garrett Gilbert was the backup QB to Mayfield.

I believe the Browns want Gilbert as the third QB, at least as of now. But they are shopping for a quality veteran who has the right “Tough... Smart... Accountable” attributes Berry and Stefanski have mentioned over and over.

For a while, I’ve been pushing for Case Keenum, who is a free agent. The 32-year-old Keenum has been with five teams. His best season was 2017 when he had an 11-3 record as a starter for the Minnesota Vikings, with Stefanski as his QB coach.

For his career, Keenum is 27-35 as a starter. He is respected for his unselfish attitude and can do a decent job if needed to start.

Signing Keenum would not lead to a dreaded QB competition in training camp. But it would let Mayfield know there is a solid player behind him who can start if necessary. Also, Keenum is an example of how to survive in the NFL without outstanding physical skills.

Keenum was paid $7 million last season. I’d offer him about $5 million as a backup. The Browns also are reportedly looking at Chase Daniels. He’s not as attractive.

THE BOTTOM LINE

The last thing the new regime wants to do is search for another starting QB.

Analytics is important to the front office, and analytics loved Mayfield when he came out of Oklahoma. Had former V.P. Sashi Brown remained in charge of that draft, my guess is he would have used the top pick on Mayfield.

The analytics and basic football stats were very promising after Mayfield’s rookie season. So the Browns still believe in him for a variety of reasons.

The Browns haven’t said so, but I believe they want to challenge him – and they’re not afraid to do it.

https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2020/02...r-mayfield.html

Article Title: Unflattering Photo of Baker Mayfield With Giants’ Stars Has People Thinking He’s Gained Weight (PIC + TWEETS)

You can read and view here: https://www.totalprosports.com/2020/01/3...ght-pic-tweets/

#workinghard

Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog

Article Title: Unflattering Photo of Baker Mayfield With Giants’ Stars Has People Thinking He’s Gained Weight (PIC + TWEETS)

You can read and view here: https://www.totalprosports.com/2020/01/3...ght-pic-tweets/

#workinghard

I've always been curious as to why many assume that because you pay someone that young so much money that it automatically means they know how to be a consummate professional and have a full understanding of what it takes.

We don't expect that from anyone else at that age. Instead we actively teach and foster those things.

As with anyone else Baker is ultimately responsible for his own actions. But when you put a guy on a team under Freddie Kitchens and John Dorsey, neither of whom placed any importance on running a disciplined, professional team, it's hard to fault the QB for not emulating a behavior his superiors themselves don't demonstrate.

That's a valid point - different sport, but one of the things I have always said about LeBron is that I will always be monumentally impressed that at age 18 or 19 Nike signed him to a $90 million deal - and it never impacted his performance on or off the court. LeBron is one of the exceptions and should be a role model for any young athlete about to become fabulously wealthy.

J/C

Frankly, I was disgusted by his overall performance last year. He showed nothing. Besides the inaccuracy (throwing over the receivers - a lot), there was practically no anticipation. It looked as though he had no idea where the receivers were supposed to be at the tops of their routes. It also looked like he tended to lock on to his first read, and if that receiver was covered, he either took off running or tried to throw into an impossible window. And his magical "rabbit-out-of-the-hat" throws completely disappeared. I would tend to blame these things on a general lack of preparation and study, unfamiliarity with the playbook, and overall laziness. He said it himself, they thought it would be easy. That is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard.

Unless he can read the defenses, learn the routes, anticipate his throws, go through his progressions, read the field, and find the open man (because with our talent pool there should always be at least one) all the footwork and weight loss in the world won't matter one whit. He needs to step it up on a personal responsibility level in a major way or he is finished.

Personally, I would trade this year's first and second and next year's first for a shot at Burrow, trade Baker to the highest bidder, and never look back because I question his ability to put in the work, and get the job done. I am deeply disappointed in his lack of performance this past year and question whether he has what it takes. It was shocking how bad he was. The only reason there is any hope at all is that he did show something his first year, and he must know his career is on the line. JMHO

Coming out, I thought Baker was one of the most accurate passers I'd seen in years. And he displayed that often his rookie year. But I agree with you to the extent that I was baffled by his lack of accuracy last year. I couldn't decide of it was the bulk he added, the plays, or the scheme... I don't think it's not fixable, but I won't be happy if it's not fixed by the end of camp this year.

I'm not going to comment on the coaching/FO changes but right now I'm feeling pretty uninspired to follow the Browns... I hope this feeling changes by the time the season starts because I have never followed another team, but I'm struggling to continue being a diehard fan.

Originally Posted By: OldColdDawg

Coming out, I thought Baker was one of the most accurate passers I'd seen in years. And he displayed that often his rookie year. But I agree with you to the extent that I was baffled by his lack of accuracy last year. I couldn't decide of it was the bulk he added, the plays, or the scheme... I don't think it's not fixable, but I won't be happy if it's not fixed by the end of camp this year.

I'm not going to comment on the coaching/FO changes but right now I'm feeling pretty uninspired to follow the Browns... I hope this feeling changes by the time the season starts because I have never followed another team, but I'm struggling to continue being a diehard fan.

It was all three, plus (and the biggest factor) other teams had tape on him. The tape is the key. The treat ones adjust their game to overcome the tape.

Quote:

I'm not going to comment on the coaching/FO changes but right now I'm feeling pretty uninspired to follow the Browns... I hope this feeling changes by the time the season starts because I have never followed another team, but I'm struggling to continue being a diehard fan.

I'm sorry to say it, but I feel the exact same way.

Safety is a huge need and a major hole on the defense. I am loving Xavier McKinney S from Alabama. He reminds me of Ed Reed. Major ballhawk and can blitz and is a major playmaker the Browns Defense is sorely lacking. Take him at 10.

Here are the Browns picks in the 2020 Draft assuming, Berry doesn't trade down:

1st round 10
2nd Round 41
3rd Round 74
3rd Round 90
4th Round 115
6th Round 187
7th Round 237
7th Round 245

At 41, TE is also a major need. They need to move on from Njoku. I really like Cole Kmet TE from Notre Dame

At 74, I am liking Noah Igbinoghene CB from Auburn. Greedy had a disappointing year, and Ward is too injury prone and gets burned too many times to keep around.

Originally Posted By: Browns2020

At 74, I am liking Noah Igbinoghene CB from Auburn. Greedy had a disappointing year, and Ward is too injury prone and gets burned too many times to keep around.

Really

J/C

I think the new staff is right to challenge Baker ... I feel like he wasn’t coached or taught last season. He needs to seriously dive into film study, mechanics, and an individual plan for improvement.

In terms of a backup, I like the idea of a Keenum or Chase Daniel if we could manage it

Originally Posted By: Browns2020

At 41, TE is also a major need. They need to move on from Njoku. I really like Cole Kmet TE from Notre Dame

Since Njoku is still on his rookie deal, it’s cheap to keep him and see if there is anything there. He may have that elusive “third season epiphany” people talk about.

I wonder if/how his skills will match the new scheme, blocking-wise.

I think ideally we’d make him a WR/TE type and acquire/draft more of a blocking TE (that’s a position that we sorely missed last season)

Refs, um, yeah... if you could move the draft talk to the draft thread that'd be great.

Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog

Article Title: Unflattering Photo of Baker Mayfield With Giants’ Stars Has People Thinking He’s Gained Weight (PIC + TWEETS)

You can read and view here: https://www.totalprosports.com/2020/01/3...ght-pic-tweets/

#workinghard

I agree. I have said several times the kid looked heavy. I also chalked it up to the long process from winning the Heisman, all the stuff leading up to the draft, the season. He also got married. The long season as explained and getting married makes for a lazy off-season. I can give a pass for that.

This season is different. He needs to come back in a more chiseled form. He had his full off season off. Now, if he wants to be a good qb, he gets a month off after the season and maybe a few weeks before camp.

It's a big year for Baker and the Dorsey draft legacy.

My bad, didnt see the Draft Message Board.

Browns have a very tough schedule this year. To have a winning season, the defense needs massive upgrades, Mayfield needs to put in the work, personally, I would tank for Lawrence next year, and the play calling needs major improvement. Mayfield will not lead any team anywhere. He folds in the clutch, he doesnt read defenses well, his footwork is not good,and he puts his receivers in bad positions. He isn't the answer at QB.

I dont see too many wins this year. Cowboys and Redskins got major Head Coaching upgrades. They have the Colts, Titans, Texans, and Jags. Bengals should be getting Burrow, which they only split last year vs the Bengals. Raiders will be most likely a loss. Jets is a potential win, Giants are a potential win, other than that, I think there will be a lot of losses next year

j/c

Imagine what Baker could have done as a rookie if he was a hard-worker. He might have even won the all-time rookie QB TD record. As a hard-worker in college he may have been able to rise from walk-on to starter to Heisman winner. If only..

Imagine if as a rookie he would have been able to compete for the starting job in TC...and played a few more games to try and win the all-time rookie TD record.

Imagine if Freddie would have called plays (beyond the first-scripted batch) that the team had actually practiced during the week...imagine if the entire team knew how to line up timely and knew what was the play.

Sorry...Baker didn't go from chip-on-shoulder, hard-worker to lazy fat donkey in one off-season...no way. Did he prep as much/well as he could/should have? Probably not. Being able to actually practice with your starting WRs and running plays (in games) that were practiced during the week would have been a big help though.

2019 will go down as yet-another lost season for the Browns. The only things we learned were bad/awful things - except for Chubb. Dysfunction, ego, strife, etc. We learned nothing about the future on many young players (Baker, Ward, Njoku) and burned up another prime-time year of guys like Bitonio, Tretter, Landry, S Richardson, Shobert, etc. Poor job-performances forced yet-another coaching overhaul and GM replacement.

Any evaluation of anything - other than Chubb - has to include a caveat that 'things' were so screwed up on so many levels that it's almost unreasonable to draw a conclusion/evaluation on much of anything.

Imagine if he had done that last season. We all know that his HC made him less accurate and worse than he was in 2018.

I think it is a mind boggling decision to let Van Pelt call plays in the pre-season, to see whether he or Stefanski are going to call plays. It's mind-boggling decisions like this, that results in non-stop losses for this organization.

Totally agree with your comments on Busterfield

Originally Posted By: PitDAWG

Imagine if he had done that last season. We all know that his HC made him less accurate and worse than he was in 2018.

Imagine what? That Baker called the plays that they actually practiced during the week?

Or that he actually COULD have practiced with his starting WRs in TC? Or even during the week?

When one understands just how poor was the coaching and thick was the dysfunction it's easy to conclude that no one player on the team - perhaps in the league - could overcome the BS.

When Landry publicly states that he had no idea where the plays were coming from - after the first-scripted batch - there is no amount of off-season, QB-specific 'work' that could fix that problem.

What he is getting paid is irrelevant to the quality of player he is and so you are going to keep a bad player because he is cheap. Explain how that translates to winning. He is inconsistent, and has very questionable hands

They need 53 players like Nick Chubb. He goes to work, keeps his mouth shut, and is an elite player. Love watching him play. He stands out big time on this team

Originally Posted By: Browns2020

What he is getting paid is irrelevant to the quality of player he is and so you are going to keep a bad player because he is cheap. Explain how that translates to winning. He is inconsistent, and has very questionable hands

He's 23 years old...he's played two seasons and about 3 games...he's a freak athlete...he needs to improve on his hands.

That - plus a cheap contract - are the exact and perfect reasons why you give him another year. Not to mention the dearth of options behind him.

We will agree to disagree. I think he stinks

You mentioned a lot of things. How did any of those things make him less accurate when he threw the ball?

Deshaun Watson was sacked the most times last year of any QB at 55x. He produced 26 TDs and 12 INTs. Russell Wilson was sacked the 2nd most times at 54 and he produced 31 TDs and 5 INTs. Kyler Murray and Matt Ryan were tied for 3rd most times sacked at 48. Kyler Murray had 20 TDs and 12 INTs, Matt Ryan had 26 TDs and 14 INTs.

Mayfield was tied for 9th most times sacked with Jimmy Garoppolo and Ryan Fitzpatrick at 40. Jimmy Garoppolo had 27 TDs 13 INTs, and Fitzpatrick 20 TDs 13 INTs, as compared to 22 TDs and 21 INTs for Mayfield

j/c:

Personally, I would not give up on Baker and tank for another player. I would not trade Baker. I would keep him and demand more accountability. I still think he has a chance to be good.

I also don't buy all the excuses that are being made for him. I think his issues are pretty easy to recognize.

Ultimately, I think this upcoming season is going to go a long, long way in shaping Baker's career. It's time to put the work in, evolve as a person, and concentrate more on football and less on outside influences.

Just my opinion on the different takes that have occurred since I posted the two articles this morning.

so, after 16 posts...

Safeties suck
Defense sucks
Njoku sucks
Greedy sucks
Ward sucks
Schedule sucks
FO decisions suck
Our QB's name is Busterfield

At least you like Chubb!

Welcome aboard (you'll fit right in) and Go Dodgers!

BTW... you should change your name to SuperBrowns2020

Love Landry, Chubb, OBJ, Hunt if he gets his act together. Tretter is solid, Bitonio is ok, Sheldon Richardson, Mack Wilson too LOL

Originally Posted By: CalDawg

Personally, I would trade this year's first and second and next year's first for a shot at Burrow, trade Baker to the highest bidder, and never look back because I question his ability to put in the work, and get the job done. I am deeply disappointed in his lack of performance this past year and question whether he has what it takes. It was shocking how bad he was. The only reason there is any hope at all is that he did show something his first year, and he must know his career is on the line. JMHO

I would be fine with losing every game this year so we could draft Lawrence next year. Lawrence might be the best QB prospect since Elway … that's almost 40 years of time that has passed. I'm ok with Baker over Burrow, for now.

If Baker lights up it this year, then roll with him. But he has a lot to prove...starting with his maturity and attitude to his work ethic to his play on the field. He has to be willing to learn and take to coaching.

The only thing redeeming about his season last year is he didn't lose his penchant for trying to push the ball downfield. I just don't think that can be taught, and I think plus level throws are the difference between contenders and pretenders. Check down charlies and playing it safe will only get you so far. Stellar QB play that includes plus level game changing throws are vital. If you can't get a guy to even attempt those, you've got no chance. Mayfield, for all of his awfulness last year, didn't lose this aspect. It just needs to be honed in.

My own personal opinion is the Browns will be looking for another QB in 2021. And if Keenum is signed, I expect Mayfield to be benched at some point this year in favor of Keenum. I saw all I needed to see from Mayfield against UGA in the CFP. I forgot all of that after his rookie season, but lost sight that he was playing with house money. When the house money dries up and the odds are the longest, he folds. I expect the same this year. Add in his craptastic attitude, and I believe he will fold.

(Now everyone bookmark this post and make a mental note of it. If Baker has an MVP caliber season, bring it back to life and point out how wrong I was. I would be more than happy to eat mounds and mounds of crow if it meant that Baker was playing well and the Browns were winning. It's all I care about.)

I just don't see it. Some guys are winners. I haven't seen anything from Baker that says he's a winner. He was an overachiever fueled on an unrelenting confidence and belief in himself and that took him very far. Once you reach the pros, that no longer matters. You either got it or you don't and even if you got it, you still have to be willing to put in the work. I just don't see it.

I also think Baker plays best when he is the unquestioned top dawg playing with followers. Many leaders are great leaders when they are leading followers. It's hard to lead other leaders. That takes a different type of mentality and leadership.

Originally Posted By: CalDawg

Quote:

I'm not going to comment on the coaching/FO changes but right now I'm feeling pretty uninspired to follow the Browns... I hope this feeling changes by the time the season starts because I have never followed another team, but I'm struggling to continue being a diehard fan.

I'm sorry to say it, but I feel the exact same way.

Me three.

you the man. My sentiments exactly. They should tank for Trevor. Totally agree on Mayfield vs Georgia in the Playoffs. He chokes under pressure.

Bears talking to the Bengals about trading for Dalton. Dak still looking to get paid. Cowboys are my other team. I think he was crazy for turning down $34 million. The Brady situation is still ongoing. Lots of issues unresolved including the CBA in the NFL

Originally Posted By: Rishuz

I would be fine with losing every game this year so we could draft Lawrence next year. Lawrence might be the best QB prospect since Elway … that's almost 40 years of time that has passed.

No no no no no .... I agree with others that talk about the culture of losing and how hard it is to change ... we've got two back to back nearly .500 seasons and you'd be fine with a roulette wheel spin on a QB about to play a college season where literally anything might happen including a #1 pick refusing to sign for a franchise that just went 0-16 again? No thanks! Baker doesn't need to be Elway for us to win games and go to the playoffs and win in the playoffs. If we "only" got the Rookie Baker back - it'd be good enough. I'm hoping his ceiling is higher.

Originally Posted By: Browns2020

Bears talking to the Bengals about trading for Dalton. Dak still looking to get paid. Cowboys are my other team. I think he was crazy for turning down $34 million. The Brady situation is still ongoing. Lots of issues unresolved including the CBA in the NFL

Bears are a much more balanced and touch team to beat with Dalton in there instead of Tribisky

Originally Posted By: Browns2020

Browns have a very tough schedule this year. To have a winning season, the defense needs massive upgrades, Mayfield needs to put in the work, personally, I would tank for Lawrence next year, and the play calling needs major improvement. Mayfield will not lead any team anywhere. He folds in the clutch, he doesnt read defenses well, his footwork is not good,and he puts his receivers in bad positions. He isn't the answer at QB.

I dont see too many wins this year. Cowboys and Redskins got major Head Coaching upgrades. They have the Colts, Titans, Texans, and Jags. Bengals should be getting Burrow, which they only split last year vs the Bengals. Raiders will be most likely a loss. Jets is a potential win, Giants are a potential win, other than that, I think there will be a lot of losses next year

You are all messed up Browns2020 hating most of our players/FO and then on top of that being a Dodger fan ... GO GIANTS!!!

Quote:

If we "only" got the Rookie Baker back - it'd be good enough.

I'm not sure if that's possible. Baker may come back around. But watching QB's fail around this team doesn't give me much hope he will.

I wasn't..then I was and now I'm not big on Baker. Baker ruined last season for me. He ruined it so bad that I'm not paying for season tickets anymore. I don't even want to pay for one game.

I'm not even sure about a guy like Burrows. To me he is like Cardale Jones. He had a great team around him. The team was going to win no matter who was QB.

I liked what Justin Herbert did in the Combine .. He was throwing some nice long passes with a nice arc . The Receivers could run under the ball. Baker he just throws that hard rifle ball all the time.

I don't know what it is about Heisman winning QB's .. But most don't pan out...Guys like Staubach..Plunkett won SuperBowls and had successful careers..Maybe Cam Newton could be mentioned as one. Other than that most of them had okay or below careers in the NFL.

I'm not sure how Drew Brees never won it but what he did in Purdue and the NFL surely shows an outstanding career... Brady ...Roethlisberger... Farve.. they have shown great success.

If Baker wants to have a successful career as an NFL QB then he needs to grow up and act like he wants it now or it's going to be over and another wash for a Cleveland QB. I wouldn't care if Baker stays or goes. But he better get it together before I can feel comfortable about the Browns turning it around.

Originally Posted By: PitDAWG

You mentioned a lot of things. How did any of those things make him less accurate when he threw the ball?

LOTS of things made him less accurate last year. Poor footwork with no coaching. Poor preparation for the week - matched by poor coaching. Zero confidence in the plays being called and his teammate's ability to know and execute the plays. An OL that was as consistent as the sunrise...at being very unreliable.

He could have had a "PERECT" offseason and been his usual accurate self...and that STILL wouldn't overcome the cluster that was the 2019 season.

I know you want it to be one thing - all Baker's fault - but it's simply not.

Originally Posted By: DeisleDawg

If Baker wants to have a successful career as an NFL QB then he needs to grow up and act like he wants it now or it's going to be over and another wash for a Cleveland QB.

I agree - but I have a lot more confidence in the young man than you do ! I also think last year's performances were as much as result of Kitchens and the scheme as it was about him. Yes - he was much less accurate and yes he brought a large slice of that on himself by his off season choices. But to me Kitchens will always be a regression from Hue - and Hue was one of the worst ever all by his good self.

I will make this prediction. Justin fields will be the first qb off the board next year.

Originally Posted By: keithfromxenia

I will make this prediction. Justin fields will be the first qb off the board next year.

Trevor Lawrence?

check their season stats last year. very close but a slight edge to fields. that was his first year with the team so he will improve next season. we shall see how it plays out.

Originally Posted By: mgh888

Originally Posted By: Browns2020

Bears talking to the Bengals about trading for Dalton. Dak still looking to get paid. Cowboys are my other team. I think he was crazy for turning down $34 million. The Brady situation is still ongoing. Lots of issues unresolved including the CBA in the NFL

Bears are a much more balanced and touch team to beat with Dalton in there instead of Tribisky

That's probably because they would be able to pass the ball.

Dalton is sooooooooooooooooo much better than Trubisky.

Quote:

I also think last year's performances were as much as result of Kitchens and the scheme as it was about him. Yes - he was much less accurate and yes he brought a large slice of that on himself by his off season choices.

Well said and I agree.. What scares me is the off season choices part.. I honestly feel like this is JM all over again...

I really hope Baker can turn it around...I'm really going to miss tailgating with Columbus Saint Peen Lurker Fate and all the others who are there .. I sound like a band wagon fan. For years I went to the games and was always so excited and hopeful and overly positive about the seasons. But last season did it for me.. I can no longer justify paying what I did for tickets parking and all other costs.

Peen and Columbus made it possible for me to make all the games. I'm actually excited about not being committed to going this season. It came to a point where I would wake up Sunday morning to head up to the game wishing I wasn't. missing them guys tailgating sucked..Even worse was walking out after a game watching the team lose yet again.

I met so many wonderful people from this board because of the Cleveland Browns... over 30 friends I made because of the Browns off this board.. All I want is what they want ..what all Fans want... A team that wins Championships and Super Bowls...

I'm not even that ambitious anymore, I just want a team that wins more than loses. Is 9-7 too much to wish for ?

j/c:

A few thoughts...

--I feel bad for guys like Diesel who don't want to go to the games anymore. I will tell you that this team has a ton of talent. They can win big w/the talent on hand. I think it comes down to the same thing as last year. 1. Baker 2. HC 3. Chemistry/Team Attitude.

--I still question Baker's personality. Hell, he challenged a fan to a fight right before a game last year. He criticized a teammate. He criticized all sorts of folks. He made fun of former players and coaches. He mocked working w/a QB coach both last year and this year. That pick of him that I posted earlier w/the Giant players was embarrassing. He looks more like a guy in a Monday night bowling league than a professional football player. He didn't work out--other than one time--w/his teammates last off-season. I just have not seen proof of him being a "hard worker."

However, I think he has real arm talent and has a lot of moxie. Thus, I think he still has a chance to be good. Giving up on him would be a mistake at this point in time.

--This one is kind of off the wall, but I couldn't help but think during the coaching search that bringing in McDaniels as HC and him, in turn, bringing Brady w/him......this team could have had a legit shot to win the Super Bowl next year. I'm sure that Brady would have loved playing w/this talent even though some on here knock that talent.

--Now, it's up to Baker and Stefanski to lead this talented roster to great heights. I think they have a chance. I cautioned people last year about all the high expectations. This year, I see a lot of negative expectations. I'm not predicting the great heights that many had for last year's team, but I believe they have the talent to be a very good football team.

I agree, but as talented as we are, the talent is clumped together. We have to add to the Oline and on D we need to add to 3 of the 4 position groups. DL, LB, And S are weak IMO.

We will need to address some of that in FA because we won't be able to add that many starters in the draft.

If you have to watch your #1 overall pic like a hawk and demand he not act like a delta bravo, you need a new QB because he isn't the one.

I didn't say they need to watch him like a hawk. I just think he needs to "evolve" as a person. It would be ignorant to give up on him. He could end up being good.

The only thing he does well as a QB, is throw hard passes. You cannot change who a person is, and frankly, he was a delta bravo at Oklahoma and has been a delta bravo since he's been here.

I mean seriously what NFL QB has shaved 3x in one day, and got tackled into a wall by the police before he was ever in the NFL. He isn't clutch, he folds under pressure, and was complaining the fans were too loud, and was arguing with a Bengals fan in the stands.

All that evidence suggests he isn't the 1.

But you are 100% entitled to your opinion

I think a great TE will help any QB. This is a glaring need on the Offense. Austin Hooper for the Falcons would be a major upgrade. I think the Packers are interested in him, not sure why the Browns wouldn't go after him. If not, Cole Kmet TE from Notre Dame looks good at 41.

Unfortunately, Mayfield likely peaked his rookie year. Haslam condones losing, so that is a major problem with this organization. It should be impossible to go 32-88-1 the way the NFL is set up. Almost only counts in horseshoes and hand grenaes

Chubb is fantastic and has been underutilized his 1st 2 seasons. Hopefully Stefanski is smart enough to change that. Love OBJ and Landry. Higgins, not sure if it was a Freddie issue, or he was thinking he was better than he is.

Tretter is solid at C. OL isn't as bad as everyone thinks it is. Defense took a major step back after the Garrett suspension. I think the DL is pretty solid, but the LBs, CBs, and S were flat out awful, and need major upgrades

Originally Posted By: Browns2020

If you have to watch your #1 overall pic like a hawk and demand he not act like a delta bravo, you need a new QB because he isn't the one.

Is your last name Bosa

Imagine if bake didn’t come in looking like he needed to go to fat camp ....

Imagine if bake would have worked with a broom sweeper ...

Imagine if bake didn’t throw so many inaccurate passes especially high ...

Imagine if Bake didn’t panic and roll out right on 50% of our pass plays ...

Imagine if bake wasn’t a one read qb ...

Imagine if bake didn’t throw so many picks ...

There’s a lot to imagine about last year ... Lots of Blame to go around ... But god forbid we place blame where it belongs ...

So you're saying we should blame Dorsey and Kitchens for the mess around Baker?

It's no wonder Baker got fat with Kitchens always on his mind and his GM always chewing on something.

LOL. That is one of my favorite quotes.

Originally Posted By: DeisleDawg

Quote:

I also think last year's performances were as much as result of Kitchens and the scheme as it was about him. Yes - he was much less accurate and yes he brought a large slice of that on himself by his off season choices.

Well said and I agree.. What scares me is the off season choices part.. I honestly feel like this is JM all over again...

Ouch ! That's a low blow !
Of course - if you set your expectations that low you can only (I hope) be pleasantly surprised!

I never liked or wanted JM. I wanted Baker. So I already have some baked in reluctance to equate the two.

JM came from money, had talent, but was given a whole lot as an athlete, and while he ran around a bit an could throw the ball on the run we saw in the NFL he took hits and got hurt 'easily'. Compared to Baker who, while coming across as arrogant and immature in college, worked his tail off for everything he got and wasn't handed anything. He's not a lot taller than JM but that 1" still counts and he seems to me to be significantly more solid than JM. . . . . I don't know how JM's team mates truly felt about him, but Baker's team have always rallied around and to him.

Bottom line Baker needs to change from what he did and was last off season. Hope he learns and matures and surprises you more than a little

Baker, and the entire team, will be better schematically than last year.

the big question mark now is heart. not just for Bake but the entire team.

last year they showed a lot of mental weakness. thats a hell of a lot harder to overcome than scheme and play calling.

Originally Posted By: DiamDawg

Imagine if bake didn’t come in looking like he needed to go to fat camp ....

Imagine if bake would have worked with a broom sweeper ...

Imagine if bake didn’t throw so many inaccurate passes especially high ...

Imagine if Bake didn’t panic and roll out right on 50% of our pass plays ...

Imagine if bake wasn’t a one read qb ...

Imagine if bake didn’t throw so many picks ...

There’s a lot to imagine about last year ... Lots of Blame to go around ... But god forbid we place blame where it belongs ...

He could have done all of those things and Kush still couldn't block for crap, Robinson would still get benched for being a dink, Hubbard would still be oftentimes mistaken for a folding chair, OBJ would still not know where to line up, the team would still get to the line with less than 8 seconds on the playclock and Landry would still not know where the plays came from beyond those first scripted.

Baker didn't help the situation much...but what 2nd year QB could? I don't think there is a single poster on this board or Browns fan I've ever met in person who thinks that Baker had no fault in the 2019 failures.

The first paragraph of your post clearly shows u want to deflect a VERY HIGH % of bakes issues on everyone but bake ..

Kinda makes the last paragraph meaningless .... The way i take your posts lately ...

KJ stunk and Bake’s issues had way more to do with others than him ...

Thats what your posts (the parts of the ones i read) say to me ....

J/C

I think this is the biggest offseason of Baker’s career. If he still has the same inaccuracy and results next season we’re in big trouble

Originally Posted By: DiamDawg

The first paragraph of your post clearly shows u want to deflect a VERY HIGH % of bakes issues on everyone but bake ..

Kinda makes the last paragraph meaningless .... The way i take your posts lately ...

KJ stunk and Bake’s issues had way more to do with others than him ...

Thats what your posts (the parts of the ones i read) say to me ....

I suggest you re-read those posts. I've stated numerous times that Baker didn't do what he needed to do...not sure if I should put it in caps or what...or maybe just misspell a bunch of words to make it clearer.

Maybe this makes it better: If the dysfunction and poor coaching and crap Oline were better/acceptable, Baker would have not likely have been in position to take advantage of the opportunity to win more games and get to the playoffs because he didn't do what was needed to improve and be ready for teams that now/then had/have tape on him.

KJ? He did some good things...he failed at some things...he got rid of guys that weren't HIS guys, he brought in some guys who weren't any better than the guys he released and he spent some money on some disappointing talent and gave out some bad contracts. He was a part of the dysfunction. He wasn't the worst GM we've ever had and he might have been the best...but that's a crazy-low bar. In th eend, he simply wasn't good enough...just like every other GM STR.

Originally Posted By: Browns2020

Browns have a very tough schedule this year. To have a winning season, the defense needs massive upgrades, Mayfield needs to put in the work, personally, I would tank for Lawrence next year, and the play calling needs major improvement. Mayfield will not lead any team anywhere. He folds in the clutch, he doesnt read defenses well, his footwork is not good,and he puts his receivers in bad positions. He isn't the answer at QB.

I dont see too many wins this year. Cowboys and Redskins got major Head Coaching upgrades. They have the Colts, Titans, Texans, and Jags. Bengals should be getting Burrow, which they only split last year vs the Bengals. Raiders will be most likely a loss. Jets is a potential win, Giants are a potential win, other than that, I think there will be a lot of losses next year

They have the 4th easiest schedule in the NFL in 2020.

Lol yeah they had an easy schedule when they wentt 1-31 too. This is much harder

Jags should be a win, Jets and Giants maybe, and maybe a split with the Bengals. Thats 4 wins best case

2020 Schedule

Week 1 - at Tennessee ... LOSS
Week 2 - Baltimore ... LOSS
Week 3 - at NY Giants ... LOSS
Week 4 - at Cincinnati ... WIN
Week 5 - Indianapolis ... WIN
Week 6 - at Dallas ... LOSS
Week 7 - Oakland ... WIN
Week 8 - BYE
Week 9 - at Baltimore ... LOSS
Week 10 - Philadelphia ... LOSS
Week 11 - at Pittsburgh ... LOSS
Week 12 - Washington ... WIN
Week 13 - Houston ... LOSS
Week 14 - at NY Jets ... LOSS
Week 15 - Pittsburgh ... LOSS
Week 16 - at Jacksonville ... WIN
Week 17 - Cincinnati ... WIN

6-10 per the usual

There arent beating the Texans, Titans or Colts, they arent beating the Ravens, they arent beating the Steelers, they arent beating the Cowboys, or Giants. So where is this easy schedule you are talking about? They arent beating the Raiders.

I know you want people to believe that a guy who throws a football his entire life and loses his touch makes it the HC's fault.

You might wish to remember that same QB made it plain when he said, “I do not need somebody to teach me how to do a three-step drop,”

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20...ith-a-qb-tutor/

Maybe you should understand that you can't teach a student that doesn't want to learn.

I know you want people to think Baker should have zero accountability for his regression. It also sounds like you believe that a HC should only call plays that "Baker believes in", rather than run an offense and expect Baker to step up and preform in that offense.

Hey maybe they got your guy now who will let Baker call the offense so he's comfortable in it.

i dunno if we can beat indy. they have a stacked squad.

Yeah i was saying win now based on their unknown QB ... We’ll see if Rivers ends up there

Originally Posted By: PitDAWG

I know you want people to believe that a guy who throws a football his entire life and loses his touch makes it the HC's fault.

Either you missed it or didn't read it or didn't comprehend it...I pointed out that Baker was also at fault. If anyone is trying to make Baker's issues the result of a singular thing it is you.

Quote:

You might wish to remember that same QB made it plain when he said, “I do not need somebody to teach me how to do a three-step drop,”

That says so very little that it doesn't surprise me that you typed it.

Quote:

Maybe you should understand that you can't teach a student that doesn't want to learn.

Based on your rants and refusal to see the whole picture, I would say it is you who doesn't understand that.

Quote:

I know you want people to think Baker should have zero accountability for his regression.

If that's what you've comprehended from my comments, then you have a serious cognitive issue...very serious.

Quote:

It also sounds like you believe that a HC should only call plays that "Baker believes in", rather than run an offense and expect Baker to step up and preform in that offense.

Again, you have a serious comprehension issue if that is what you think I typed. OBJ couldn't get lined up properly without being directed and Vice Grips himself stated that he had no idea where the plays were coming from after the first scripted batch. It's not about running plays that "Baker believes in"...it's about running plays that you actually practice during the week. I expect you still won't understand that as I've typed it numerous times to no avail.

Quote:

Hey maybe they got you guy now who will let Baker call the offense so he's comfortable in it.

Again...if that's a conclusion that you have drawn, you need to see a neurologist.

Quote:

Zero confidence in the plays being called

Yeah, it was all me.

So your HC should be limited to calling only plays "Baker has confidence" in?

Maybe you should proof read your posts rather than claim someone else needs to see a neurologist.

I bet a ton of QBs would have loved to play w/the all the "problems" Baker had to endure last year.

Dude had more offensive talent than any team in the league at his disposal. The analytic grades were out there all year on the OL. Time to throw, winning one-on-one blocks, etc, etc. Those numbers were ignored and folks said things like "I don't care what they say, the OL sucks."

I have maintained for decades that casual football fans don't understand how long an OL should hold their blocks and how important the QB is in the process.

People hated DA, but we went from "having the worst OL in the league" w/Frye to having a "great OL" w/DA. In a matter of weeks. LOL

Baker faced some pressure and some of it was quick. Then again, name a QB who doesn't? Baker often dropped too deep and in the area where the tackles were supposed to guide the Edge rushers. He often bailed clean pockets instead of stepping up. He mostly bailed to his right and into trouble.

Look, I haven't given up on the guy. I don't think he is a bust. I think he has a chance to be good. But, he sucked blank last year. What upsets me the most is his arrogant attitude about it. He doesn't need to work w/broom sweepers. He knows how to take a 3-step drop, Dude, you do need to work on your footwork. Work on your damn game and stop taking on the world!

Originally Posted By: Dawgs4Life

2020 Schedule

Week 1 - at Tennessee ... LOSS
Week 2 - Baltimore ... LOSS
Week 3 - at NY Giants ... LOSS
Week 4 - at Cincinnati ... WIN
Week 5 - Indianapolis ... WIN
Week 6 - at Dallas ... LOSS
Week 7 - Oakland ... WIN
Week 8 - BYE
Week 9 - at Baltimore ... LOSS
Week 10 - Philadelphia ... LOSS
Week 11 - at Pittsburgh ... LOSS
Week 12 - Washington ... WIN
Week 13 - Houston ... LOSS
Week 14 - at NY Jets ... LOSS
Week 15 - Pittsburgh ... LOSS
Week 16 - at Jacksonville ... WIN
Week 17 - Cincinnati ... WIN

6-10 per the usual

Talk about gloom and doom...I say we get 7 wins...BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

J/C..

Brady Quinn and Nathan Zegura Talk QB and Draft

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4E0OuZyfLZ4

Totally agree. I dont think hes anything more than a backup QB.you are exactly right on his attitude and work ethic

I would have no problem if they drafted Justin Herbert at 10. Mayfield is very limited as a QB and he is not a good athlete. And mayfield acts like a punk

Originally Posted By: Browns2020

Totally agree. I dont think hes anything more than a backup QB.you are exactly right on his attitude and work ethic

No offense, but I wasn't saying he is a backup qb. I still think he has the chance to be good. I have always questioned his personality and some things I never got to see him do in college due to his offense.

However, I think there is no doubt he should be our starter this year and I think there is a decent chance he can be a good NFL qb.

I just get tired of all the excuses that some make for him.

Originally Posted By: Browns2020

I would have no problem if they drafted Justin Herbert at 10. Mayfield is very limited as a QB and he is not a good athlete. And mayfield acts like a punk

Your answer is Herbet.

LOL