|
|
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 13,701
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 13,701 |
As somebody who is high on Stefanski, and yet wants nothing to do with the talent evaluator that put together an 0-16 team (even a Hue coached team should at least one game), can someone explain the Stefanski/Berry connection? I don't get it. Is that just speculation or are they actually rumored to want to work together? Is the new working theory that Berry was the brains (part or all) behind the Sashi drafts?
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
-PrplPplEater
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 19,170
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 19,170 |
As somebody who is high on Stefanski, and yet wants nothing to do with the talent evaluator that put together an 0-16 team (even a Hue coached team should at least one game), can someone explain the Stefanski/Berry connection? I don't get it. Is that just speculation or are they actually rumored to want to work together? Is the new working theory that Berry was the brains (part or all) behind the Sashi drafts? No. The consistent, prevailing thought from people that liked what the plan was with Sashi included Berry as a very important piece. People claimed Sashi was doing talent evaluation on players, which was laughable. Sashi had final decision on whether to draft a guy or trade up/down, but the player(s) in questions was the work done by Berry and the scouting staff. This was challenged, ad nauseam, often.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 13,701
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 13,701 |
As somebody who is high on Stefanski, and yet wants nothing to do with the talent evaluator that put together an 0-16 team (even a Hue coached team should at least one game), can someone explain the Stefanski/Berry connection? I don't get it. Is that just speculation or are they actually rumored to want to work together? Is the new working theory that Berry was the brains (part or all) behind the Sashi drafts? No. The consistent, prevailing thought from people that liked what the plan was with Sashi included Berry as a very important piece. People claimed Sashi was doing talent evaluation on players, which was laughable. All I want to know is who was the guy that thought passing on Wentz, drafting Corey Coleman... so on and so forth... we're all good ideas. I want to know who that is and stay as far away from that person as possible.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
-PrplPplEater
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 19,170
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 19,170 |
As somebody who is high on Stefanski, and yet wants nothing to do with the talent evaluator that put together an 0-16 team (even a Hue coached team should at least one game), can someone explain the Stefanski/Berry connection? I don't get it. Is that just speculation or are they actually rumored to want to work together? Is the new working theory that Berry was the brains (part or all) behind the Sashi drafts? No. The consistent, prevailing thought from people that liked what the plan was with Sashi included Berry as a very important piece. People claimed Sashi was doing talent evaluation on players, which was laughable. All I want to know is who was the guy that thought passing on Wentz, drafting Corey Coleman... so on and so forth... we're all good ideas. I want to know who that is and stay as far away from that person as possible. Then you might not be happy moving forward. Still, if people would appreciate the need to accumulate extra draft capital considering the state of the organization in 2016, maybe one would think differently? It's the same group that wanted Garrett and many other players with it on this roster.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,469
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,469 |
I think Wentz was passed on as a team building effort .. to get as many draft picks as possible out of 1 pick. Coleman happened to be who we picked when our pick came up. I do not think the plan was to pass on Wentz and pick Coleman instead, he was just the highest rated WR available at that time ( pick 16 ).
but yes.. Depo was quoted as saying that he did not have Wentz rated as the #2 pick in the draft.
The Cleveland Browns - WE KNOW QUARTERBACKS ( Look at how many we've had ... )
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,901
Legend
|
|
OP
Legend
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,901 |
jc...
Try to put yourself in Dorsey's position after Haslam fired Hue Jackson. It seems the Browns had their choices for HC down to Depo's preferred choice of Stefanski and Kitchens.
Stefanski played safety for Penn earning honorable mention honors twice and after the end of the season was named as an assistant to his college coach for 2005. During the summer of 2005, the Eagles hired Stefanski as and intern.
In 2006 Stefanski was hired as an assistant to the HC, Brad Childress. Childress coached the Viking from 2006 to 2010 and Stefanski handled scheduling details and served as a liaison between Childress and the players.
In 2009 Childress considered Stefanski ready to coach on the field and named him assistant QB coach. Stefanski coached TEs in 2014-2015 and RBs in 2016. In 2017-2018 he coached QBs. Stefanski became had been the Vikings "interim OC" for the final three games of the 2018 season...the very first time that Stefanski had ever coached as an OC in the NFL.
...VS...
..., Freddie Kitchens, had experience playing QB at Alabama, starting for 3 seasons with the Tide. Kitchens started his coaching career at the college level in 1999 with Glennville State, then at LSU as a grad assist. in 2000, then RB coach for North Texas for 3 seasons and then 2 seasons at Miss. St. in 2004 as TE coach and 2005 as RB coach.
In 2006 Kitchens was TE coach for the Cowboys, then spent 10 years coaching TEs, RBs and QB coach for the Cards for 4 seasons. Then Kitchens was hired by the Browns as RB coach in 2018, taking over as OC for the last 8 games with the Browns winning 5 games and 3 losses. Kitchens worked well with the Browns rookie QB Baker Mayfield, who was named the NFL offensive rookie for 2018.
NOW, TELL ME DORSEY WAS WRONG TO CHOOSE KITCHENS OVER STEFANSKI...
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 19,170
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 19,170 |
Dorsey was wrong.
Depodesta was right not liking Kitchens.
#TrustTheGut
In this case, literally and figuratively.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 15,668
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 15,668 |
All I want to know is who was the guy that thought passing on Wentz, drafting Corey Coleman... so on and so forth... we're all good ideas. I want to know who that is and stay as far away from that person as possible. That was Hue Jackson. He can't hurt us anymore though.  How early did Hue Jackson want a receiver in this draft?
"As fast as I could get one,'' he said.
Imagine that.
The Browns, who've overlooked the position in recent drafts, took care of that with No. 15 in the first round when they draft speedster Corey Coleman from Baylor after trading down from No. 8 with the Titans.
"We were able to add a very dynamic football player to our team,'' said Jackson, who's accustomed to the likes of A.J. Green and Marvin Jones. "What a tremendous athlete and the suddenness and quickness. We plan on being very dynamic on offense. This guy truly gives us an opportunity to do that.'' ......
...."He's probably one of the most dynamic players in this draft on offense, arguably.'' https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2016/04/hue_jackson_on_corey_coleman.html
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 13,701
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 13,701 |
The question of who was behind those Sashi drafts will never be answered, will it?
I believe it was Depo that said he didn't think Wentz was a fQB. He wasn't making selections, but clearly the guy who did agreed. Then there were the picks we did make, which were, for the most part, horrendous. I don't think it's too much to ask to not have that guy doing the same job for us.
I think Sai Sashi and his group did a lot of good for this team. Overall, the players they did pick weren't among the good.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
-PrplPplEater
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 19,170
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 19,170 |
I think Sai Sashi and his group did a lot of good for this team. Overall, the players they did pick weren't among the good.] That's fair. Though, both Dorsey's and Sashi's regimes drafted two Pro Bowlers. But Dorsey did with the extra picks Sashi produced in Chubb and Ward. Sashi has Garrett and Schobert. The more picks you have, the better your chances to ht on players.mNot sure what that means, but I think it means something.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,901
Legend
|
|
OP
Legend
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,901 |
The question of who was behind those Sashi drafts will never be answered, will it?
I believe it was Depo that said he didn't think Wentz was a fQB. He wasn't making selections, but clearly the guy who did agreed. Then there were the picks we did make, which were, for the most part, horrendous. I don't think it's too much to ask to not have that guy doing the same job for us.
I think Sai Sashi and his group did a lot of good for this team. Overall, the players they did pick weren't among the good.
One of their established guidelines was gain as many draft picks as you can...that was accomplished by passing over top talent to take lower talent by trading down. It was depo who dissed Wentz and bragged about his first day draft, trading down and picking Coleman who only lasted two season with the Browns.
Coleman traded to the Bills and lasted until their final cuts.
...was picked up by Patriots and lasted just one week.
...was picked up by the Giants a month later and accumulated 5 catches in 8 games in 2018.
...first day of 2019 training camp, Coleman tore an ACL, done for the season.
That was an example of the analytics boys talent evaluation.
In there very first draft, of the 14 draft picks the A-boys made, only 5 played for 4 yrs in the NFL..only 3 as starters.
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,248
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,248 |
In there very first draft, of the 14 draft picks the A-boys made, only 5 played for 4 yrs in the NFL..only 3 as starters. [/color]
This is laughable without any context. The majority of those picks were made in Rounds 4 or later, as the overall goal of the draft was to punt draft picks to amass higher quality top round picks for later drafts. Still despite that, they got 5 players that have stuck in the NFL and 3 starters?? 5 contributors with 3 starters in one draft sounds like a pretty successful draft to me. By comparison, Dorsey in his 2018 masterstroke ... who had the benefit of all those higher round picks, managed to get 3 starters within 6 meaningful contributors. 2 of which (Calloway and Avery) don't even play for us after two years.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 34,639
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 34,639 |
I wish we knew the Avery story.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 4,818
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 4,818 |
I love the whole Corey Coleman pick as a reason for ineptitude from the front office. It's typically been we screwed up because we could have drafted Michael Thomas...
Corey Coleman, Will Fuller, Josh Doctson, Laquon Treadwell, and Sterling Shepard were all drafted before Michael Thomas.
Corey Coleman and Laquon Treadwell were predominately listed as the top WR in the draft by many scouts. Fuller and Doctson also receiving top WR votes. PFF said Coleman was the best WR in the draft leading up to draft night.
The 2016 draft was also known as one of the weakest WR drafts...
Dorsey misses on Corbett and you hear that you can't hit on every pick. However, the previous regime misses on Coleman and it's a fireable offense....
The double standard is alive and well apparently....
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 52,481
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 52,481 |
i wonder if hue and sashi would still be here if they wouldve just taken Wentz.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 2,313
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 2,313 |
Hue loved him some RG III - "The Earth moved". No way he wanted Wentz.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 23,847
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 23,847 |
The question of who was behind those Sashi drafts will never be answered, will it?
I believe it was Depo that said he didn't think Wentz was a fQB. He wasn't making selections, but clearly the guy who did agreed. Then there were the picks we did make, which were, for the most part, horrendous. I don't think it's too much to ask to not have that guy doing the same job for us.
I think Sai Sashi and his group did a lot of good for this team. Overall, the players they did pick weren't among the good.
One of their established guidelines was gain as many draft picks as you can...that was accomplished by passing over top talent to take lower talent by trading down. It was depo who dissed Wentz and bragged about his first day draft, trading down and picking Coleman who only lasted two season with the Browns.
Coleman traded to the Bills and lasted until their final cuts.
...was picked up by Patriots and lasted just one week.
...was picked up by the Giants a month later and accumulated 5 catches in 8 games in 2018.
...first day of 2019 training camp, Coleman tore an ACL, done for the season.
That was an example of the analytics boys talent evaluation.
In there very first draft, of the 14 draft picks the A-boys made, only 5 played for 4 yrs in the NFL..only 3 as starters. Dorsey made 17 picks and only 3 starters...sooo..oh and just because they start for us, doesn't mean they are starters....Mack and takitaki and redwine are pure garbage that may or may not turn into contributors..Greedy as well..they all ranked at the bottoms of their positions..especially mack, he ranked lower than UDFA
Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday. -John Wayne
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,248
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,248 |
i wonder if hue and sashi would still be here if they wouldve just taken Wentz. I get the feeling Wentz would of never succeeded here. We would of had garbage around him, and Hue Jackson pulling a Kizer on him. The Eagles team was stacked for him. Remember, he went down and Foles marched them to a Super Bowl. The last two years, outside of interceptions, Wentz has had very similar numbers to Baker: Rk Player G QBrec Cmp Att Cmp% Yds TD Rate Int Sk Y/A AY/A NY/A ANY/A
1 Baker Mayfield 30 12-17-0 627 1020 61.5 7552 49 85.9 35 65 7.4 6.82 6.54 5.99
2 Carson Wentz 27 14-13-0 667 1008 66.2 7113 48 96.7 14 68 7.1 7.38 6.21 6.52
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 73,513
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 73,513 |
I wish we knew the Avery story. this was one of the stranger things of the year
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,117
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,117 |
Do you think that we ever will? Because stopping whatever process dealt him and brought us Coleman and Kizer would save us a bunch of grief IMO.
The Hippocratic thang: "First, do no harm."
Browns Hypocritic oath: "First cripple the roster. . . ."
Trying to joke, but we are all out of purple ink, and the Truth in this scared the bejeezus outta me.
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 8,974
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 8,974 |
Haslam didn't really hold back on Freddie in the press conference. Whoa, whoa, whoa.....you mean coaches putting players in the best situation to succeed should be the goal? Crazy. Brings me back to this.... And yet Freddie was relentless in trying to pound that square peg into a round hole... I think you guys are thinking that a lot of these quotes are towards FK, but I think they were explicitly towards John Dorsey. JMO
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 13,701
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 13,701 |
I highly doubt that was the intention, if any.
But you bring up a fair point (I assume you're getting at Dorsey letting all of our TE talent walk?).
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
-PrplPplEater
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 8,974
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 8,974 |
I highly doubt that was the intention, if any.
But you bring up a fair point (I assume you're getting at Dorsey letting all of our TE talent walk?). When he said "its not just your way or the highway" he was referring to Dorsey. All reports from KC was he was difficult to work with and did things no matter what anyone said. Reports are he wanted to bring Freddie back - which was a mistake. Reports are he had Freddie under his thumb, who was really sitting Higgins? Who was really sitting the Chief? Monken was vocal about Freddie to other teams - you don't think he was vocal to JD? Dorsey is a football guy, I don't think he got along with the Analytics, and I think he very well could have been very defiant of any of them being presented. It was obviously FK was struggling - why not give playcalling to Monken? Etc. etc. I think a lot of the presser was about John, more than Freddie.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 4,818
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 4,818 |
I agree. These are definitely comments directed towards Dorsey.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 8,974
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 8,974 |
I agree. These are definitely comments directed towards Dorsey. Yep. John by all accounts is an egomaniac. Read the reports from KC, and put that with the "I flexed my muscles" comments. He wanted a HC he could control. He wanted to showcase his #1 QB pick, and probably told Freddie to air the ball out with Baker. I think John had a lot more to do with the disaster of this season than we will ever know.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 13,701
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 13,701 |
The question of who was behind those Sashi drafts will never be answered, will it?
I believe it was Depo that said he didn't think Wentz was a fQB. He wasn't making selections, but clearly the guy who did agreed. Then there were the picks we did make, which were, for the most part, horrendous. I don't think it's too much to ask to not have that guy doing the same job for us.
I think Sai Sashi and his group did a lot of good for this team. Overall, the players they did pick weren't among the good.
One of their established guidelines was gain as many draft picks as you can...that was accomplished by passing over top talent to take lower talent by trading down. It was depo who dissed Wentz and bragged about his first day draft, trading down and picking Coleman who only lasted two season with the Browns.
Coleman traded to the Bills and lasted until their final cuts.
...was picked up by Patriots and lasted just one week.
...was picked up by the Giants a month later and accumulated 5 catches in 8 games in 2018.
...first day of 2019 training camp, Coleman tore an ACL, done for the season.
That was an example of the analytics boys talent evaluation.
In there very first draft, of the 14 draft picks the A-boys made, only 5 played for 4 yrs in the NFL..only 3 as starters. Dorsey made 17 picks and only 3 starters...sooo..oh and just because they start for us, doesn't mean they are starters....Mack and takitaki and redwine are pure garbage that may or may not turn into contributors..Greedy as well..they all ranked at the bottoms of their positions..especially mack, he ranked lower than UDFA Ugh... where to start with this... The LBs (and Redwine) were pressed into service due to injury. Injuries to several starting caliber SSs and Kirksey (the safeties were all brought in by Dorsey, and performed well). Yes Redwine played fairly poorly, but he was also a rookie and was a backup. I think Greedy played just fine for a rookie outside CB. He will get better over his first full offseason. Ward has his durability concerns, and took steps back this season, but he's also young. He'll be fine. I think both of these guys have the talent to round out into a premier starting duo. If not, we also have the other guys (Carrie, Mitchell) to fill in, who I believe were also brought in by Dorsey. Carrie is nothing to get too excited about, and his contract sucks, but Mitchell was a steal. Randall, for all his headaches, was an absolute jackpot when we landed him. Yes, he's a headcase, but honestly... if our OC was acting like people said he was, then that kinda lowers the bar as far as players' attitudes. Long story short, Berea was a mess, and everyone was off their rocker. Randall is a near-premier FS talent that we got for a guy that was basically already cut. Dorsey drafted Baker, Ward, Chubb, Corbett, Greedy in the top 2 rounds of his 2 drafts. That's 3 starters and one major bust. He also drafted Seibert and Chad Thomas (a starter and a guy that got plenty of playing time). Then there's Taki and Mack, Redwine, Calloway, Avery, Ratley. Those are good picks. Avery was a good player that wasn't getting playing time from our looney coaching staff, and Calloway was a 1st round talent that was had in the 4th (didn't work out, but a good gamble pick).
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
-PrplPplEater
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 13,701
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 13,701 |
I highly doubt that was the intention, if any.
But you bring up a fair point (I assume you're getting at Dorsey letting all of our TE talent walk?). When he said "its not just your way or the highway" he was referring to Dorsey. All reports from KC was he was difficult to work with and did things no matter what anyone said. Reports are he wanted to bring Freddie back - which was a mistake. Reports are he had Freddie under his thumb, who was really sitting Higgins? Who was really sitting the Chief? Monken was vocal about Freddie to other teams - you don't think he was vocal to JD? Dorsey is a football guy, I don't think he got along with the Analytics, and I think he very well could have been very defiant of any of them being presented. It was obviously FK was struggling - why not give playcalling to Monken? Etc. etc. I think a lot of the presser was about John, more than Freddie. I agree with this latest post. I just thought that specific tidbit about usage of formations as they contribute to Baker's effectiveness was reserved for Kitchens. Unless you're talking about who we let go in the offseason.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
-PrplPplEater
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 8,974
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 8,974 |
I highly doubt that was the intention, if any.
But you bring up a fair point (I assume you're getting at Dorsey letting all of our TE talent walk?). When he said "its not just your way or the highway" he was referring to Dorsey. All reports from KC was he was difficult to work with and did things no matter what anyone said. Reports are he wanted to bring Freddie back - which was a mistake. Reports are he had Freddie under his thumb, who was really sitting Higgins? Who was really sitting the Chief? Monken was vocal about Freddie to other teams - you don't think he was vocal to JD? Dorsey is a football guy, I don't think he got along with the Analytics, and I think he very well could have been very defiant of any of them being presented. It was obviously FK was struggling - why not give playcalling to Monken? Etc. etc. I think a lot of the presser was about John, more than Freddie. I agree with this latest post. I just thought that specific tidbit about usage of formations as they contribute to Baker's effectiveness was reserved for Kitchens. Unless you're talking about who we let go in the offseason. I think ( and this is pure speculation) that John gave a directive to Freddie to feature Baker. John wanted to prove he was the smartest guy in the room, and wanted his pick to be the face of the team. I think he was telling Freddie to feature the passing the game. I also would not be surprised if John was telling Freddie to go against analytics. Look at what we say from Freddie last year in his calling of games, compared to this year. SOMETHING changed, and that was John Dorsey having his thump on Freddies career. Last year, there was no guarantee for Freddie to be here. he could call a game anyway he wanted, and did. This year, he had a boss to worry about going forward. . . . Just a theory.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 4,818
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 4,818 |
I still think Dorsey's #1 concern was getting Kitchens to remain with Baker.
When no one wanted to have Kitchens forced on them, Dorsey was left with only the decision to promote Kitchens to HC.
I have to admit, I felt Kitchens and Baker had a great feel those final 8 games. I didn't necessarily want him to leave either. However, I didn't interview Kitchens. I couldn't tell you if Kitchens was ready or not. Dorsey should have known. Dorsey either knew he wasn't ready but hired him anyway, or Dorsey had no idea how to hire a HC.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 8,974
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 8,974 |
I still think Dorsey's #1 concern was getting Kitchens to remain with Baker.
When no one wanted to have Kitchens forced on them, Dorsey was left with only the decision to promote Kitchens to HC.
I have to admit, I felt Kitchens and Baker had a great feel those final 8 games. I didn't necessarily want him to leave either. However, I didn't interview Kitchens. I couldn't tell you if Kitchens was ready or not. Dorsey should have known. Dorsey either knew he wasn't ready but hired him anyway, or Dorsey had no idea how to hire a HC. Option 3, Dorsey is so power hungry, he hired Kitchens so he could control him - and go against the analytics department all at the same time. He knew he wasn't ready, he knows how to hire a coach, but hired him anyway for the above reasons.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 23,847
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 23,847 |
The question of who was behind those Sashi drafts will never be answered, will it?
I believe it was Depo that said he didn't think Wentz was a fQB. He wasn't making selections, but clearly the guy who did agreed. Then there were the picks we did make, which were, for the most part, horrendous. I don't think it's too much to ask to not have that guy doing the same job for us.
I think Sai Sashi and his group did a lot of good for this team. Overall, the players they did pick weren't among the good.
One of their established guidelines was gain as many draft picks as you can...that was accomplished by passing over top talent to take lower talent by trading down. It was depo who dissed Wentz and bragged about his first day draft, trading down and picking Coleman who only lasted two season with the Browns.
Coleman traded to the Bills and lasted until their final cuts.
...was picked up by Patriots and lasted just one week.
...was picked up by the Giants a month later and accumulated 5 catches in 8 games in 2018.
...first day of 2019 training camp, Coleman tore an ACL, done for the season.
That was an example of the analytics boys talent evaluation.
In there very first draft, of the 14 draft picks the A-boys made, only 5 played for 4 yrs in the NFL..only 3 as starters. Dorsey made 17 picks and only 3 starters...sooo..oh and just because they start for us, doesn't mean they are starters....Mack and takitaki and redwine are pure garbage that may or may not turn into contributors..Greedy as well..they all ranked at the bottoms of their positions..especially mack, he ranked lower than UDFA Ugh... where to start with this... The LBs (and Redwine) were pressed into service due to injury. Injuries to several starting caliber SSs and Kirksey (the safeties were all brought in by Dorsey, and performed well). Yes Redwine played fairly poorly, but he was also a rookie and was a backup. I think Greedy played just fine for a rookie outside CB. He will get better over his first full offseason. Ward has his durability concerns, and took steps back this season, but he's also young. He'll be fine. I think both of these guys have the talent to round out into a premier starting duo. If not, we also have the other guys (Carrie, Mitchell) to fill in, who I believe were also brought in by Dorsey. Carrie is nothing to get too excited about, and his contract sucks, but Mitchell was a steal. Randall, for all his headaches, was an absolute jackpot when we landed him. Yes, he's a headcase, but honestly... if our OC was acting like people said he was, then that kinda lowers the bar as far as players' attitudes. Long story short, Berea was a mess, and everyone was off their rocker. Randall is a near-premier FS talent that we got for a guy that was basically already cut. Dorsey drafted Baker, Ward, Chubb, Corbett, Greedy in the top 2 rounds of his 2 drafts. That's 3 starters and one major bust. He also drafted Seibert and Chad Thomas (a starter and a guy that got plenty of playing time). Then there's Taki and Mack, Redwine, Calloway, Avery, Ratley. Those are good picks. Avery was a good player that wasn't getting playing time from our looney coaching staff, and Calloway was a 1st round talent that was had in the 4th (didn't work out, but a good gamble pick). Greedy was very bad this year...all those picks you named were not good picks and two of them didn't even last a season...so how were they good picks? I was talking about draft picks, not FA or trades..Chad thomas was ranked in the bottom 10 of all edge defenders...like I said, just because they were starting for us doesn't mean they should or that they are starters...Siebert shanked how many XP? 5...he missed 9 kicks this season, but I'll give him a pass because I think he'll get better. He just needs more exp. My point in all this Dorsey was given a bunch of capital and didn't build much with it, while people are comparing him to being better than Sashi when Sashi was trying to acquire assets for a rebuild..two different directives, yet Dorsey didn't do that much with all he was given.. Sure he added some shiny pieces but forgot to get the glue that holds those pieces together, our depth sucks
Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday. -John Wayne
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,469
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,469 |
I wanted Williams to stay as head coach, and liked Freddie with Baker, but thought that Ken Zampese should stay with Baker as QB coach. A part of the dilemma was who should be OC around Baker. Freddie or Ken. Flip a coin. Freddie had the highest visual impact because he was the OC who made the calls. We now know that Ken Zampese was the power behind the scenes. Live and learn ...
The Cleveland Browns - WE KNOW QUARTERBACKS ( Look at how many we've had ... )
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 13,701
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 13,701 |
Avery and Calloway were picked in last year's draft. So they did last over a season. I understand if you argue that Calloway was a bad pick because attitude ended up getting him cut loose, which was his MO pre-draft, but I think gambling on 1st-round talent in the 4th is a fine use of the pick. If you don't, I understand but disagree.
Avery did nothing but good things while he was here. Then he was left off the gameday roster until he was traded. Our coaching staff misused a lot of our young talent, and that doesn't make them bad picks/players. Avery made plenty of positive plays, so I'm sticking with a thumbs up for him. Would love to know the story behind him, though... in case I'm wrong.
I'm not sure what you expect out of a rookie CB starting on the outside. I expected a bumpy road but also talent to show through. That was exactly the case with both of our CBs, despite playing in a scheme that might not have fit what they do best. Obviously just 1 season looking at them isn't enough, but he started as a rookie and didn't lose his job. He'll go in as the incumbent next season, with only Mitchell has a potential challenger. He'll be fine.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
-PrplPplEater
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 8,974
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 8,974 |
Avery did nothing but good things while he was here. Then he was left off the gameday roster until he was traded. Our coaching staff misused a lot of our young talent, and that doesn't make them bad picks/players. Avery made plenty of positive plays, so I'm sticking with a thumbs up for him. Would love to know the story behind him, though... in case I'm wrong. IDK. Dorsey traded Hyde to start Chubb. Dorsey refused to reach out to Joe Scho, Higgins on the bench for Ratley and Hodges, etc. Dorsey is about his guys over team. I don't think I can see a coach not playing one of his picks, and Dorsey not having a say about that. Dorsey easily could have told them to play Avery. There is a weird story behind this one.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 19,170
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 19,170 |
Dorsey misses on Corbett and you hear that you can't hit on every pick. However, the previous regime misses on Coleman and it's a fireable offense....
The double standard is alive and well apparently.... 
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 19,170
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 19,170 |
j/c:
bUtT hE gOt fIrEd bY tHe PaDrEs!
#NotVerified
#GoodOleBoyClub
#TheCocoon
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 13,701
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 13,701 |
That would be 1 extreme.
Are you saying we should go get the smartest hockey talent guy, smartest baseball personnel guy, smartest basketball coach, and that'll work?
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
-PrplPplEater
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 19,170
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 19,170 |
People who think it is extreme are extreme.
Smart people can figure out an industry. We have people in the NFL for their whole careers that are getting it wrong or at best aren't efficient in it, both in coaching and personnel.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,901
Legend
|
|
OP
Legend
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,901 |
Give me someone with 20 yrs Baseball experience attempting to learn the NFL for 4 seasons...
VS...
Someone with decades of experience in the NFL...
...this is a no brainer memp.
Besides, depo is showing that he is not a team player working in the front office, willing to play 'BUTT-BOY'...crying to owner when he doesn't get his way.
The Browns have had nothing but problems in the front office vs the coaching staff since Haslam hired Depo.
Depo record as a NFL talent evaluator speaks for itself.
Last edited by mac; 01/03/20 12:33 PM.
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 19,170
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 19,170 |
Using a homosexual slur is very "adulting" of you.
You.
Are.
A.
Joke.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
|
|
|
DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Depodesta needs to GO...
|
|
