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Jimmy is listed under Dee.... sounds like mac's angst is misdirected. ...has Whitney Haslam Johnson always been listed there? Or is that a new addition? The GM/HC being seduced by the owners' daughter/wife would be a new way to fail and entirely in keeping with our anything that can go wrong will history.
You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
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"Football guy" Dorsey got his "football guy" Freddie and it just failed spectacularly. Dorsey's worst season while in charge is still 6 X better than Depodesta's best year, in charge.
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Always liked Ron Wolf. Read his book. Has done wonderful things. I don't necessarily think that's what's happening here. Data isn't making decisions. Data assists those making the decision. I think we are closer to what he did in Green Bay more than he thinks. Maybe he's just upset for Elliot? Analytics is infiltrating the fraternity.
Last edited by devicedawg; 01/29/20 06:04 PM.
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"Football guy" Dorsey got his "football guy" Freddie and it just failed spectacularly. Dorsey's worst season while in charge is still 6 X better than Depodesta's best year, in charge. That will happen when you decide on a 3 year plan and then give the new guy year 3 with a stockpile of assets.
You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
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Ron Wolf : Times are changing, Eliot. These nerds are a threat to our way of life. Eliot Wolf : If they win the Homecoming Carnival, they'll be able to take over the Greek Council. Ron Wolf : Yeah. And we'll be up to our asses in nerd <bleep>.
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Haven't read this thread other than the title so there may be newer information but this is the most recent per cleveland.com. Most recent update was today at 2:42 https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2020/01...determined.htmlBrowns part ways with personnel execs Alonzo Highsmith and Steve Malin; Eliot Wolf’s role to be determined Updated 2:42 PM; Today 10:52 AM Alonzo Highsmith of the Browns Alonzo Highsmith is reportedly leaving the Browns front office after serving as VP of Player Personnel. (Branson Wright, The Plain Dealer) 725 324 shares By Mary Kay Cabot, cleveland.com MIAMI, Fla. -- Andrew Berry’s impact is already being felt after only one day on the job. The Browns and Vice President of Player Personnel Alonzo Highsmith have mutually agreed to part ways, Highsmith confirmed to cleveland.com. The Browns have also parted ways with Director of College scouting Steve Malin, a league source confirmed. Dustin Fox of 92.3 The Fan first reported the news. The Browns and assistant general manager Eliot Wolf are still determining his future with the club, a league source told cleveland.com. ESPN’s Chris Mortensen first reported that the Browns have also parted ways with Wolf, but later also said the two sides are still working through it. Highsmith told ESPN’s Josina Anderson that he and the Browns parted ways because of philosophical differences. "I wanted to go in a different direction because my philosophy on football is different from theirs,'' Highsmith said. "As far as football goes, I’ll just have to wait and see what happens. I love all parts of the game. I’ve never been a title guy. Working and contributing has always been my goal. So I do hope to return to the NFL.'' The moves come a day after new GM and Executive Vice President of Football Operations Berry officially signed his five-year contract with the Browns. Highsmith and Wolf were the top two lieutenants of former Browns GM John Dorsey, who parted ways with the team Dec. 31 after declining to accept a demotion. They were both brought in from Green Bay, where they spent most of their NFL careers. Highsmith, a former NFL running back, spent 19 years in Green Bay before coming to Cleveland in 2018, and Wolf spent 14 seasons there. Highsmith had a chance to join his alma mater, the University of Miami, as head of football operations, but that opportunity didn’t materialize. Highsmith’s departure has been anticipated since Dorsey was let go, but Wolf has always had a chance of remaining with the club. Dorsey and his top aides, particularly Highsmith, didn’t espouse the heavy emphasis on analytics to drive personnel decisions, led by Chief Strategy Officer Paul DePodesta. They were old-school, traditional scouts who rely on their football knowledge and not as much on statistics. It was a point of contention the entire time Dorsey was in the building. It was also the reason Dorsey overhauled the Browns’ roster, dismantling most of the work done in Sashi Brown’s two years in charge. Only five of Brown’s 24 draft picks from 2016 and 2017 remain on the roster.
Don't blame the clown for acting like a clown. Ask yourself why you keep going to the circus.
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Imagine that, someone who knows a little something about FOOTBALL agrees with me.
Tell us again, what has Moneyball/analytics done for the Browns?
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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Tell us again, what has Moneyball/analytics done for the Browns? Myles Garrett and Nick Chubb?
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1-31 is exactly what they were trying to accomplish. It is not. 1-31 wasn't the target, but it was a well-known possibility. Their plan was to jettison expensive players, trade down, and churn the bottom of the roster. You can't do that and then claim you're trying to win as many games as possible.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
-PrplPplEater
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We really don’t know why Paton’s not here ... we have no clue how much the thief affect had to do with Paton’s decision making process ...
IF its true about Wolf and we really tried to get him to stay ... that’s a real black eye on what the thief’s done to the credibility of this franchise ...
The kool aid drinkers will say its no biggie .... they’ll just be lying to themselves ...
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"Football guy" Dorsey got his "football guy" Freddie and it just failed spectacularly. Dorsey's worst season while in charge is still 6 X better than Depodesta's best year, in charge. That will happen when you decide on a 3 year plan and then give the new guy year 3 with a stockpile of assets. Ya, anyone would have done what KJ did as far as bringing in talent ...
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I agree. Not worried about Alonzo leaving but I was really hoping we would find a way to keep Elliot. Oh well Lets see what the future holds for us.
“It doesn't make sense to hire smart people and tell them what to do; we hire smart people so they can tell us what to do.” -Steve Jobs.
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"Football guy" Dorsey got his "football guy" Freddie and it just failed spectacularly. Dorsey's worst season while in charge is still 6 X better than Depodesta's best year, in charge. That will happen when you decide on a 3 year plan and then give the new guy year 3 with a stockpile of assets. Ya, anyone would have done what KJ did as far as bringing in talent ... Probably not. Some would have done better.
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Theo Epstein was hired in 2011 by the Cubs. He proceeded to lose 197 games in two seasons as he took an analytical approach in stripping down the team, hoping to build up a solid foundation, by using assets he compiled in those first two years.
Fortunately the Cubs got rid of that numbers-nerd and replaced him with a guy that actually knew baseball ... in Theo Epstein, and that guy proceeded to win a World Series 3 years later.
Anyone who tries to compare the 1-31 years to any other years is just putting their complete ignorance about the subject on full display.
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Tell us again, what has Moneyball/analytics done for the Browns? Myles Garrett and Nick Chubb? ... Thats as logical as macs post ... congrats ... *L* ...
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Imagine that, someone who knows a little something about FOOTBALL agrees with me.
Tell us again, what has Moneyball/analytics done for the Browns? Someone who has forgotten more about football than you'll ever know Football changes. Keep up with or ahead of the changes or get left behind. Some things stay the same. Unfortunately, they're the obvious things that even a "football guy" can figure out. How you get to those things (toughness, etc) has had to change due to changes in the CBA. "Football guys" have struggled with that part.
You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
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IF its true about Wolf and we really tried to get him to stay ... that’s a real black eye on what the thief’s done to the credibility of this franchise . diam...If Haslam really wanted Eliot Wolf to stay in Cleveland, he would be here, imo.
It's Haslam's checkbook...
Now, if Haslam is simply trying to get ahead of that "blackeye"...you float the story that we tried to keep him.
Ron Wolf has already commented on how screwed up teams are that rely heavily on analytics. He didn't say that he knew the Browns were once again a mess...but he didn't need say that...everyone knows that Ron Wolf was talking about Haslam, Depodesta and the Browns.
Last edited by mac; 01/29/20 06:43 PM.
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Reminds me of a quote in ... gah, I have to say it ... Moneyball: For $41 million, you built a playoff team. You lost Damon, Giambi, Isringhausen, Pena, and you won more games without them than you did with them. You won the exact same number of games that the Yankees won, but the Yankees spent $1.4 million per win, and you paid $260,000. I know you are taking it in the teeth, but the first guy through the wall... he always gets bloody... always. This is threatening not just a way of doing business... but in their minds, it's threatening the game. Really what it's threatening is their livelihood, their jobs. It's threatening the way they do things... and every time that happens, whether it's the government, a way of doing business, whatever, the people who are holding the reins - they have their hands on the switch - they go bat**** crazy. I mean, anybody who's not tearing their team down right now and rebuilding it using your model, they're dinosaurs.
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Why not? Just continue on your dead end road.
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I agree. Not worried about Alonzo leaving but I was really hoping we would find a way to keep Elliot. Oh well Lets see what the future holds for us. Takitaki was the pick most closely tied to Wolf and he didn't exactly set the world on fire. (Liked the player well enough for the record, not sure about the draft slot) If Wolf wasn't fully on board with Berry and Stefanski, it's probably best that he's gone. Good player, wrong fit kind of deal.
You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
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What did Eliot Wolf's dad say...
Hall of Fame GM Ron Wolf said the @Browns and others who embrace an analytics-driven model are "out of control." Wolf: "When something goes wrong, who takes responsibility? "Their answer: `Well, that's what the data told us.' What a crock. That's what got 'em 1-31.""
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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If you can’t operate a TI-84 then you don’t matter.
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If you can’t operate a TI-84 then you don’t matter. He's not going to know what that is.
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Tell us again, what has Moneyball/analytics done for the Browns? Myles Garrett and Nick Chubb? Rubbish!
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Tell us again, what has Moneyball/analytics done for the Browns? Myles Garrett and Nick Chubb? Rubbish! What round did we draft him in, I don’t remember him.
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The point is we were "right there" and Dorsey failed. With everything he had to work with, he couldn't build a winning team and there are some people who think he did a good job. Dorsey was very good. He might have missed on Freddy but you can't win them all. What Haslem did was criminal. Get ready for trade downs for crappy players.
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Eliot came on board in 2018.
In 2020 the GM position was open for hire.
He did't get a whiff. Was not considered for the position?
And now Berry is hired as the GM and the Packer connections are gone.
When a new regime is brought in most of the time the old regime is let go.
That is what happens. Coaches are let go as well.
I don't think this some giant surprise.
Maybe Stefanski/Berry and Depo will suck eggs.
But when I look back it is not like we are breaking up Chuck Knoll's Steeler's teams.
If I recall correctly it's not like we even had a winning record.
Freddie dug a grave and Dorsey put him in it.
So here we are.
Ron Wolf, Eliot Wolf or not.
When September rolls around we shall see what happens.
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Actually none of us do including you. This could be a great thing or a failure of epic proportions. To act as if there isn't two sides to this coin and it could land either way is preposterous. You are getting old bub...my comment was about "evachange" saying our scouting department was gone. It's not gone. The director of college scouting is gone. If this is the way you are going to continue, we don't even need to talk. As to another post, you said I ignored something in your post about frequent flyer miles. Either I don't know what you are talking about or deemed the comment something that didn't need my comment. Probably I don't know what you are talking about.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Sounds like Eliot Wolf felt that same way Paton did. Could see what's going on and didn't want to be here. Probably so...that is why people leave. It's why Berry left last year, he could see what was going on and decided to leave. What did Elliott Wolf do for us? I wish we could have kept him, but obviously he wasn't going to have the same pull as he had with the Dorse. It happens all the time at the top of a business. You can't tell me you expected everything to stay the same did you?
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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You are correct. The old regime,the coaches and alot of players. That's just how it always works.
Indecision may,or maynot,be my problem
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We need to bring Hue back as our QB coach. Believe it or not, 5 of the 6 qb's he coached here are still currently on NFL rosters. Maybe the qb room wasn't as bad as the Hue lovers are saying.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul. - John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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Sashi,Depo and Berry led us to 1-31.And there are some people(Haslam is one)that think they did a good job. HUE! Hue led us to 1-31. HUE! HUE! HUE! Why is this so hard? spin away, but the only people who crowed about tearing the Browns to the studs were Depodesta and Sashi.
The Browns low point in franchise history, the 1-31 record, will forever be linked to the Moneyball boys and no one else.
The GM provides the talent, then it is up to the coach to try to develop a team with the talent provided. Drink!
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We need to bring Hue back as our QB coach. Believe it or not, 5 of the 6 qb's he coached here are still currently on NFL rosters. Maybe the qb room wasn't as bad as the Hue lovers are saying. I wasn't. It wasn't superior by any means, but we could have won some games.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Imagine that, someone who knows a little something about FOOTBALL agrees with me.
Tell us again, what has Moneyball/analytics done for the Browns? Drink!
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I mean sour grapes from the past does not foretell the future. This is hysterical for how ironic it is.
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J/c
Not a surprise IMO ... i dont think it’s a big deal
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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J/c
Not a surprise IMO ... i dont think it’s a big deal It isn't. It's business at the top. When the top person changes, they are going to bring in their people, just like Dorsry and all the others did. Human nature. I liked Wolf. Not sure why, probably because of his Dad, but I never knew much of him in a first hand way. At least it sounds like Berry tried to find a slot for the guy and it just didn't mesh. Move on
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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I keep reading about what the Browns are doing, and I'm expecting somebody to tell me that this is all a joke. Like April Fools, haha, very funny. Only it's not April first. It's January twenty-whatever.
We might as well bring back Sashi Brown at this point (and no that's not something I encourage, but what would really be the difference at this point? It's basically the crew from two years ago back together, minus Sashi.)
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1-31 is exactly what they were trying to accomplish. It is not. 1-31 wasn't the target, but it was a well-known possibility. Their plan was to jettison expensive players, trade down, and churn the bottom of the roster. You can't do that and then claim you're trying to win as many games as possible. Winner!
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Highsmith and Wolf Are Out
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