DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Highsmith and Wolf Are Out

I think it's telling that Highsmith and Wolf wanted to move on.

It doesn’t seem like Highsmith had much of a choice. Wolf did and left. I wouldn’t be comfortable in the new setup if I were him either.

Things are different between now and then,

Mu guess is this. Depo provided Jimmy, days after the drafts the list of players he provided, round by round, in real time, which were ignored, and his list of players were better than the people we drafted. Something made Jimmy decide Depo was a voice to be heard.


Just my guess.

Blows my mind people believe this.

This isn't really a big deal. These guys were Dorsey hires and part of the old guard.

I think when it comes to NFL scouting departments there can be such thing as having too many cooks in the kitchen.

Especially if you have a number of different "cooks" with philosophies that clash.

This is almost as insane as anything mac has said.

He was joking ... your not .... that’s sad bro ....

Year 2 was the worst QB room in the history of football and u damm well know it ... how can we have a convo when you won’t admit the truth ...

Kizer, Kessler and Hogan entered the year with zero wins i believe ... they didn’t win any that year ... and i think they have 1 win since ... Cody in J-Ville and I’m not sure he threw for 100 yards in that game ... he may have been gifted two ...

And I’m not sure any of them took a snap last year ... but ya, with a rookie and two 2nd year BUMS were gonna blame Hue for 0 - 16 ... got it ...

Naaa .... nothing to see here .... the thief’s got ‘this ...

In the real world you try to collect and retain talent.

The Browns do the opposite, in the FO and on the field.

When good people don't want to be a part of what you are building that's an indictment on what you are building.

Alignment guarantees nothing. It just means there may be less arguments and people will hopefully get along. Alignment without experience means even less. The Browns are once again the laughingstock of the NFL.

I just can't shake the feeling that this will be an epic disaster.

When you start seeing they brought Hue back, that's when you can be sure you're just having a nightmare.

Sashi on the business (contract/cap) side wouldn't upset me.

EVERY team in baseball is heavy on analytics.

Literally all of them.

Ron should probably stick to what he knows.. football.

I don't see the big deal about the GM position, nor the scout/talent evaluators.

Anyone can evaluate talent. And at the end of the day, all of it is just a gamble and luck of the draw anyway.

My #1 need in the GM was ALIGNMENT with the HC. It starts there. If we have that, we're good.

Now lets go win some games!

The "football guys" cannot stand seeing the new data driven nerds threaten their livelihoods. This same thing happened in baseball 20 years ago.

Ron Wolf is upset, eh? The same Ron Wolf that gave us Mike Holmgren, who, in turn, hired a bunch of his buddies that were all associated with his agent Bob LaMonte so the good ol' boys club could all get paid.

In a 2010 conversation with The Repository, Lerner explained what led him to hiring Mike Holmgren as president of the Browns:

“The most-impactful conversation that I had was with Ron Wolf.

“He looked me right in the eye and said, ‘Randy, listen, the best guy to come in and deal with the Cleveland Browns, lead the Cleveland Browns, turn the Cleveland Browns around, is Mike Holmgren ... if you can get him.’ ”

https://www.cantonrep.com/article/20150704/SPORTS/150709715

Did he mean get Holmgren as a coach? Genuinely curious. Looking back on it, hiring Holmgren to be an executive instead of a coach was really a strange decision. He had struggled when he had powers of both but was a Super Bowl winning head coach in his own right.

JC

Things that happened the year Ron Wolf was born:


Seabiscuit beats War Admiral.

Nuclear fission discovered.

Margaret Hamilton's costume catches fire in filming of "The Wizard of Oz".

Ball-point pen invented.

War of the Worlds broadcast.

Oil discovered in Saudi Arabia.

He also helped build three Super Bowl winning teams. That's something the Browns won't see one of, as long as we insist on changing GMs and philosophies every two years - analytics or not.

I would assume and hope that Wolf knew Holmgren's intentions before recommending Lerner hire Holmgren so emphatically.

I get that you are trying to make a joke, but both scouting ability and alignment are minimum requirements. Rank them however you want. No matter how good the scouting, it doesn't matter if the coach doesn't want the player and has no intention of using them as the GM envisions.

Berry's been well thought of as a scout and has been on the GM fast track.

One of the benefits of bringing back a guy is that the guys new GMs often dump as roster turnover because they don't fit are guys that he helped bring in.

This, right here... is why I just don't post like I used to. What's the point, until Haslam decides to commit to something? All we can really talk about is the constant churn of names coming in and out of Berea, and the individual achievements of talented standouts on a perennially losing team with a perpetually fluid roster of strangers.

Another reboot.
Just getting started- again.
I just can't care like I used to any more.

Groundhog Day has ground me into numbness. Last year was The Ultimate Browns Experience®: All the promise in the world on paper, squandered by conflicting philosophies, bad executive choices, and to top it off, incompetence with the weekly on-field product. Browns are gonna 'brown.'

New Bunch: I'll believe it from them when I see it.
Haslams are the only constant in all this. Until they commit to something- anything ... for more than 15 minutes, it's like watching one of my wife's soap operas: faces come and go, but the story lines keep getting recycled, with no football product to watch on Sunday afternoons.

____________________


"Meet the new boss- same as the old boss."
As long as The Owner doesn't change.

Any system can work. Many different ones have worked all over the league since the Browns won it all. But they all had one thing in common, despite the difference in details:
they were all systems.

JimmyDee have never given the Browns a chance at a system, because a system takes time to install. They have continued the legacy established by Junior since Al passed: rookie owners doing rookie s#. This legacy in fact goes back to the days of Art Modell, as well. Art actually began the tradition of "burn & churn" back when FO stability was the norm. In fact, the Browns/Steelers dynamic took a 180° turn when the Rooneys committed to Knoll and Art committed to nothing for more than 4 years at a time.

We can fight about 'football guys' v. 'numbers nerds' all we want, but let's face it: each NFL team carries the persona of its ownership. Our is the persona of impermanence. Transience. Stepping-stone job. Because Jimmy sets the culture.

rinse.
repeat.

________________

I'm gonna watch the carnival ride this time. I used to buy a ticket, stand in line, and jump on the ride. Carnivals, by their very nature, are a rip-off. I'll resume investing in this product when it starts to produce. That's going to take more than 18 months with "the new bosses-same as the old bosses..."

.02,
clem

How so? Something made Jimmy decide to listen, or be sure Depo had more voice. Maybe my wording was sketchy. His list was given to people pre-draft. Not during the draft.

Again, just a thought.

I get it, and I know his resume. Hearing an 81 year old complaining about analytics being "out of control" sounds like the old-timers complaining about "computers taking over the world" thirty years ago.

And then to say analytics got us 1-31? I'm thinking "only if you do it right".

But yes, he's bitter because his son didn't get the GM gig.

Yes, they where the last of the real football guys that we had.

Their leaving should raise some red flags, but then for many it will go straight over their heads.

So does Berry now bring back his boyfriend?

We have real football guys. Not sure what you are talking about.

Stefanski and Berry are football guys.

Thank god depo didn’t hire another Harvard geek to be the HC ... that may have been considered going a bit to far ...

It's 2020. He has a wife and kids. Are we really gonna use lame gay jokes to try to demean a guy?

Just as I suspected. No balance.

edit

Come on mac! The same bunch who support the 1-31 guys must know more than a guy who has three SB rings! Haven't you been listening?

If you think blows your mind, what about the people that think Baker is the best thing since sliced bread?

No, way off base. We know that Depo isn't running things and we know that we aren't in tear down mode like we were several years ago.

I think Wolf Sr. might be a bit miffed his son didn't get the job. I understand that.

If you and others want to remain in panic mode, there is noting I can do about it.

As for me, I am as calm as can be because I think we have a pretty perfect situation on our hands.

Those are the same people that don't realize that sliced bread is the best thing since Betty White, so we can disregard them as being immaterial.

That said, Baker is pretty good, but he isn't without faults and flaws in his game , for sure.