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I think it's telling that Highsmith and Wolf wanted to move on.
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I think it's telling that Highsmith and Wolf wanted to move on. It doesn’t seem like Highsmith had much of a choice. Wolf did and left. I wouldn’t be comfortable in the new setup if I were him either.
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I keep reading about what the Browns are doing, and I'm expecting somebody to tell me that this is all a joke. Like April Fools, haha, very funny. Only it's not April first. It's January twenty-whatever.
We might as well bring back Sashi Brown at this point (and no that's not something I encourage, but what would really be the difference at this point? It's basically the crew from two years ago back together, minus Sashi.) Things are different between now and then, Mu guess is this. Depo provided Jimmy, days after the drafts the list of players he provided, round by round, in real time, which were ignored, and his list of players were better than the people we drafted. Something made Jimmy decide Depo was a voice to be heard. Just my guess.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Blows my mind people believe this.
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This isn't really a big deal. These guys were Dorsey hires and part of the old guard.
I think when it comes to NFL scouting departments there can be such thing as having too many cooks in the kitchen.
Especially if you have a number of different "cooks" with philosophies that clash.
Cleveland Browns, Space Browns
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I keep reading about what the Browns are doing, and I'm expecting somebody to tell me that this is all a joke. Like April Fools, haha, very funny. Only it's not April first. It's January twenty-whatever.
We might as well bring back Sashi Brown at this point (and no that's not something I encourage, but what would really be the difference at this point? It's basically the crew from two years ago back together, minus Sashi.) Things are different between now and then, Mu guess is this. Depo provided Jimmy, days after the drafts the list of players he provided, round by round, in real time, which were ignored, and his list of players were better than the people we drafted. Something made Jimmy decide Depo was a voice to be heard. Just my guess. This is almost as insane as anything mac has said.
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We need to bring Hue back as our QB coach. Believe it or not, 5 of the 6 qb's he coached here are still currently on NFL rosters. Maybe the qb room wasn't as bad as the Hue lovers are saying. I wasn't. It wasn't superior by any means, but we could have won some games. He was joking ... your not .... that’s sad bro .... Year 2 was the worst QB room in the history of football and u damm well know it ... how can we have a convo when you won’t admit the truth ... Kizer, Kessler and Hogan entered the year with zero wins i believe ... they didn’t win any that year ... and i think they have 1 win since ... Cody in J-Ville and I’m not sure he threw for 100 yards in that game ... he may have been gifted two ... And I’m not sure any of them took a snap last year ... but ya, with a rookie and two 2nd year BUMS were gonna blame Hue for 0 - 16 ... got it ...
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I think it's telling that Highsmith and Wolf wanted to move on. Naaa .... nothing to see here .... the thief’s got ‘this ...
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I think it's telling that Highsmith and Wolf wanted to move on. It doesn’t seem like Highsmith had much of a choice. Wolf did and left. I wouldn’t be comfortable in the new setup if I were him either. In the real world you try to collect and retain talent. The Browns do the opposite, in the FO and on the field. When good people don't want to be a part of what you are building that's an indictment on what you are building. Alignment guarantees nothing. It just means there may be less arguments and people will hopefully get along. Alignment without experience means even less. The Browns are once again the laughingstock of the NFL. I just can't shake the feeling that this will be an epic disaster.
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I keep reading about what the Browns are doing, and I'm expecting somebody to tell me that this is all a joke. Like April Fools, haha, very funny. Only it's not April first. It's January twenty-whatever.
We might as well bring back Sashi Brown at this point (and no that's not something I encourage, but what would really be the difference at this point? It's basically the crew from two years ago back together, minus Sashi.) When you start seeing they brought Hue back, that's when you can be sure you're just having a nightmare. Sashi on the business (contract/cap) side wouldn't upset me.
You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
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Tackles are tackles.
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EVERY team in baseball is heavy on analytics.
Tackles are tackles.
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HERE WE GO BROWNIES! HERE WE GO!!
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EVERY team in baseball is heavy on analytics. Literally all of them.
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Ron should probably stick to what he knows.. football.
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I don't see the big deal about the GM position, nor the scout/talent evaluators.
Anyone can evaluate talent. And at the end of the day, all of it is just a gamble and luck of the draw anyway.
My #1 need in the GM was ALIGNMENT with the HC. It starts there. If we have that, we're good.
Now lets go win some games!
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The "football guys" cannot stand seeing the new data driven nerds threaten their livelihoods. This same thing happened in baseball 20 years ago. Ron Wolf is upset, eh? The same Ron Wolf that gave us Mike Holmgren, who, in turn, hired a bunch of his buddies that were all associated with his agent Bob LaMonte so the good ol' boys club could all get paid. In a 2010 conversation with The Repository, Lerner explained what led him to hiring Mike Holmgren as president of the Browns:
“The most-impactful conversation that I had was with Ron Wolf.
“He looked me right in the eye and said, ‘Randy, listen, the best guy to come in and deal with the Cleveland Browns, lead the Cleveland Browns, turn the Cleveland Browns around, is Mike Holmgren ... if you can get him.’ ” https://www.cantonrep.com/article/20150704/SPORTS/150709715
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Did he mean get Holmgren as a coach? Genuinely curious. Looking back on it, hiring Holmgren to be an executive instead of a coach was really a strange decision. He had struggled when he had powers of both but was a Super Bowl winning head coach in his own right.
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JC
Things that happened the year Ron Wolf was born:
Seabiscuit beats War Admiral.
Nuclear fission discovered.
Margaret Hamilton's costume catches fire in filming of "The Wizard of Oz".
Ball-point pen invented.
War of the Worlds broadcast.
Oil discovered in Saudi Arabia.
Last edited by FATE; 01/29/20 10:56 PM. Reason: made a boo-boo
HERE WE GO BROWNIES! HERE WE GO!!
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He also helped build three Super Bowl winning teams. That's something the Browns won't see one of, as long as we insist on changing GMs and philosophies every two years - analytics or not.
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Did he mean get Holmgren as a coach? Genuinely curious. Looking back on it, hiring Holmgren to be an executive instead of a coach was really a strange decision. He had struggled when he had powers of both but was a Super Bowl winning head coach in his own right. I would assume and hope that Wolf knew Holmgren's intentions before recommending Lerner hire Holmgren so emphatically.
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I don't see the big deal about the GM position, nor the scout/talent evaluators.
Anyone can evaluate talent. And at the end of the day, all of it is just a gamble and luck of the draw anyway.
My #1 need in the GM was ALIGNMENT with the HC. It starts there. If we have that, we're good.
Now lets go win some games! I get that you are trying to make a joke, but both scouting ability and alignment are minimum requirements. Rank them however you want. No matter how good the scouting, it doesn't matter if the coach doesn't want the player and has no intention of using them as the GM envisions. Berry's been well thought of as a scout and has been on the GM fast track. One of the benefits of bringing back a guy is that the guys new GMs often dump as roster turnover because they don't fit are guys that he helped bring in.
You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
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He also helped build three Super Bowl winning teams. That's something the Browns won't see one of, as long as we insist on changing GMs and philosophies every two years - analytics or not. This, right here... is why I just don't post like I used to. What's the point, until Haslam decides to commit to something? All we can really talk about is the constant churn of names coming in and out of Berea, and the individual achievements of talented standouts on a perennially losing team with a perpetually fluid roster of strangers. Another reboot. Just getting started- again. I just can't care like I used to any more. Groundhog Day has ground me into numbness. Last year was The Ultimate Browns Experience®: All the promise in the world on paper, squandered by conflicting philosophies, bad executive choices, and to top it off, incompetence with the weekly on-field product. Browns are gonna 'brown.' New Bunch: I'll believe it from them when I see it. Haslams are the only constant in all this. Until they commit to something- anything ... for more than 15 minutes, it's like watching one of my wife's soap operas: faces come and go, but the story lines keep getting recycled, with no football product to watch on Sunday afternoons.____________________ "Meet the new boss- same as the old boss." As long as The Owner doesn't change. Any system can work. Many different ones have worked all over the league since the Browns won it all. But they all had one thing in common, despite the difference in details: they were all systems.JimmyDee have never given the Browns a chance at a system, because a system takes time to install. They have continued the legacy established by Junior since Al passed: rookie owners doing rookie s#. This legacy in fact goes back to the days of Art Modell, as well. Art actually began the tradition of "burn & churn" back when FO stability was the norm. In fact, the Browns/Steelers dynamic took a 180° turn when the Rooneys committed to Knoll and Art committed to nothing for more than 4 years at a time. We can fight about 'football guys' v. 'numbers nerds' all we want, but let's face it: each NFL team carries the persona of its ownership. Our is the persona of impermanence. Transience. Stepping-stone job. Because Jimmy sets the culture. rinse. repeat. ________________ I'm gonna watch the carnival ride this time. I used to buy a ticket, stand in line, and jump on the ride. Carnivals, by their very nature, are a rip-off. I'll resume investing in this product when it starts to produce. That's going to take more than 18 months with "the new bosses-same as the old bosses..." .02, clem
"too many notes, not enough music-"
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I keep reading about what the Browns are doing, and I'm expecting somebody to tell me that this is all a joke. Like April Fools, haha, very funny. Only it's not April first. It's January twenty-whatever.
We might as well bring back Sashi Brown at this point (and no that's not something I encourage, but what would really be the difference at this point? It's basically the crew from two years ago back together, minus Sashi.) Things are different between now and then, Mu guess is this. Depo provided Jimmy, days after the drafts the list of players he provided, round by round, in real time, which were ignored, and his list of players were better than the people we drafted. Something made Jimmy decide Depo was a voice to be heard. Just my guess. This is almost as insane as anything mac has said. How so? Something made Jimmy decide to listen, or be sure Depo had more voice. Maybe my wording was sketchy. His list was given to people pre-draft. Not during the draft. Again, just a thought.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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Careful Fate I'm pretty old.
Not as old as Ron but old.
Wisdom is gained with age as long as you continue to search for it.
Ron Wolf is in the HOF.
But his son is the guy who did not want to stick around.
Analytics is used by every team that does not mean that it is the sole provider of information. Every team also maintains a scouting department.
Ron is probably more upset because Eliot was not offered the GM position. =============================================
I have no idea how this will all turn out??
My choice if I had one was to keep Dorsey and hire McCarthy if that could have happened. At the same time I have no idea if Dorsey would have wanted McCarthy. McCarthy spent the year off looking for ways to get better. One of the avenues he pursued was analytics.
Here we are with most of the hiring done.
Owner - Haslam Head coach - Stefanski GM - Berry CSO - DePodesta. OC - Van Pelt DC - Woods
================================================
When you look around the league and see the hires over the last two years. I don't think what has been here is somehow outrageous.
This group could fail miserable.
At the same time what we had last year didn't do all that well. And from the candidates we looked at for the jobs needing to be filled. I don't see any combination that somehow would have been guaranteed to succeed.
So I am willing to sit back and just see what happens without any expectations.
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I get it, and I know his resume. Hearing an 81 year old complaining about analytics being "out of control" sounds like the old-timers complaining about "computers taking over the world" thirty years ago.
And then to say analytics got us 1-31? I'm thinking "only if you do it right".
But yes, he's bitter because his son didn't get the GM gig.
HERE WE GO BROWNIES! HERE WE GO!!
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Sorry to hear but understandably Berry wants his own guys in here.
Thank you Elliot and Zo...all the best.
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off! Go Browns! CHRIST HAS RISEN! GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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I was hoping Highsmith and Wolfe would both stay Yes, they where the last of the real football guys that we had. Their leaving should raise some red flags, but then for many it will go straight over their heads. So does Berry now bring back his boyfriend?
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We have real football guys. Not sure what you are talking about.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Stefanski and Berry are football guys.
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Thank god depo didn’t hire another Harvard geek to be the HC ... that may have been considered going a bit to far ...
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I was hoping Highsmith and Wolfe would both stay Yes, they where the last of the real football guys that we had. Their leaving should raise some red flags, but then for many it will go straight over their heads. So does Berry now bring back his boyfriend? It's 2020. He has a wife and kids. Are we really gonna use lame gay jokes to try to demean a guy?
You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
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Just as I suspected. No balance.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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edit
Last edited by PitDAWG; 01/30/20 11:47 AM.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Imagine that, someone who knows a little something about FOOTBALL agrees with me.
Tell us again, what has Moneyball/analytics done for the Browns? Come on mac! The same bunch who support the 1-31 guys must know more than a guy who has three SB rings! Haven't you been listening?
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Blows my mind people believe this. If you think blows your mind, what about the people that think Baker is the best thing since sliced bread?
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Come on mac! The same bunch who support the 1-31 guys must know more than a guy who has three SB rings! Haven't you been listening? No, way off base. We know that Depo isn't running things and we know that we aren't in tear down mode like we were several years ago. I think Wolf Sr. might be a bit miffed his son didn't get the job. I understand that. If you and others want to remain in panic mode, there is noting I can do about it. As for me, I am as calm as can be because I think we have a pretty perfect situation on our hands.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Blows my mind people believe this. If you think blows your mind, what about the people that think Baker is the best thing since sliced bread? Those are the same people that don't realize that sliced bread is the best thing since Betty White, so we can disregard them as being immaterial. That said, Baker is pretty good, but he isn't without faults and flaws in his game , for sure.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Highsmith and Wolf Are Out
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