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jc...
Dorsey wasn't fired.
Dorsey wasn't fired.
Dorsey wasn't fired.
Dorsey wasn't fired.
Dorsey wasn't fired.
Dorsey wasn't fired.
Dorsey wasn't fired.
Dorsey wasn't fired.
Dorsey wasn't fired.
HERE WE GO BROWNIES! HERE WE GO!!
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“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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Aha! Finally someone with access to the front office. What went down bro?
HERE WE GO BROWNIES! HERE WE GO!!
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flew to close to the sun, and crashed. too big headed for his own good.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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j/c
Is this a "Baker" thread? Or another "Dorsey-brought-in-a-ton-of-talent-even-tho-no-one-will-list-out-said-talent" thread?
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We’re topic fluid on this board.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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j/c
Is this a "Baker" thread? Or another "Dorsey-brought-in-a-ton-of-talent-even-tho-no-one-will-list-out-said-talent" thread? Not been following much since Stefanski was hired. I have noted a distinct increase in personal posts but other than that not really seen what's being said. I haven't started considering the draft yet or any of the usual off season stuff .... What's the board consensus on the talent that Dorsey brought in? Personally I'd say it's impossible to judge - the big trades that brought OBJ and Vernon here are impossible to judge. Baker - and I am a HUGE fan - is still a huge question mark at this stage. Greedy - similarly has questions. So how can anyone form a definitive "he was great" or "he was awful" conclusion? jmo
The more things change the more they stay the same.
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didn't Vernon miss half the season and Greedy missed the other half.
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j/c: Browns
Footwork? Lose weight? Find a backup? What about Cleveland Browns messages to Baker Mayfield?By Terry Pluto, The Plain Dealer ABOUT BAKER MAYFIELD Think back a year ago. Baker Mayfield was coming off a powerhouse season where the Cleveland Browns QB set an NFL rookie record for TD passes. Freddie Kitchens was named head coach, primarily because of his success calling plays for Mayfield. Digging deeper, that was the problem. Kitchens owed his job at least in part to Mayfield. And Mayfield was smart enough to know that. It created an unhealthy situation, especially when things went poorly for both men. It led to Kitchens being fired after a 6-10 season. Mayfield ranked near the bottom in several QB ratings for starters. We can debate if Mayfield fell into the trap of entitlement. He had commercials and magazine covers while the Browns hype went into what we now know was ridiculous overdrive. For whatever reason, Mayfield wasn’t the same QB as he was his rookie year. Kitchens was overwhelmed. In the end, the front office and most of the coaching staff were fired while Mayfield lost some of his rookie-year glitter. THINGS HAVE CHANGED The biggest job for Kevin Stefanski and the new coaching staff is to get Mayfield back to his 2018 form. It’s important to realize Stefanski and new GM Andrew Berry aren’t as attached to Mayfield as was Kitchens. There was a sense from some players that Mayfield wasn’t pushed as hard as needed by the former coaching staff. That won’t be the situation in 2020. With Berry in charge, the Browns are stressing the need for everyone to deliver the same message. At their introductory press conferences, Berry and Stefanski stressed their confidence in Mayfield. “The sky is the limit for Baker," said Stefanski. But the coach also said he had a “detailed plan” set for Mayfield. The same is true for other players. Part of that plan involves changing Mayfield’s footwork, as new offensive coordinator Alex Van Pelt explained at his press conference. Most fans know there were times when Mayfield was off balance when he threw the ball. “It all starts with the feet,” said Van Pelt, adding it’s important to “me and Kevin (Stefanski)” that Mayfield make some adjustments. Something was wrong as too many of his passes sailed high in 2019, especially compared to his rookie season. That also could be a footwork problem. CHANGE THE SHAPE The NFL Network’s Ian Rapoport reported the Browns want Mayfield to be “slimmer.” I was told the new Browns regime doesn’t want to leave the impression that Mayfield was horribly out-of-shape. But Mayfield’s off-season plan to add muscle and bulk to be stronger for 2019 didn’t work. The good news in 2019 was Mayfield became only the second Browns QB since 1999 to start all 16 games (Tim Couch in 2001 was the other). But he looked slower and less athletic than in 2018. I don’t know much about Mayfield’s physical condition in 2019, other than he was able to survive all 16 games. But I do like the idea the Browns want him to work on his footwork. I anticipate he will take more snaps directly under center, and that puts a premium on quick feet. Want faster feet and better balance? Have less bulk. That makes sense. For what it’s worth, at the 2018 NFL Combine, Mayfield was measured at 6-foot, 5/8th inches and weighed 215. At the end of the 2019 season, the Browns listed Mayfield at 6-foot-1, 215 pounds. So according to that, he didn’t gain any weight. But last August, Mayfield admitted he put on some weight for 2019, but declined to say how much. BAKER & CASE KEENUM Cleveland Browns quarterback Baker Mayfield and Denver Broncos quarterback Case Keenum talk after the game in 2018. Photo by Joshua Gunter / cleveland.comcleveland.com ABOUT A BACKUP Veteran Drew Stanton missed all last season because of a knee injury, meaning rookie Garrett Gilbert was the backup QB to Mayfield. I believe the Browns want Gilbert as the third QB, at least as of now. But they are shopping for a quality veteran who has the right “Tough... Smart... Accountable” attributes Berry and Stefanski have mentioned over and over. For a while, I’ve been pushing for Case Keenum, who is a free agent. The 32-year-old Keenum has been with five teams. His best season was 2017 when he had an 11-3 record as a starter for the Minnesota Vikings, with Stefanski as his QB coach. For his career, Keenum is 27-35 as a starter. He is respected for his unselfish attitude and can do a decent job if needed to start. Signing Keenum would not lead to a dreaded QB competition in training camp. But it would let Mayfield know there is a solid player behind him who can start if necessary. Also, Keenum is an example of how to survive in the NFL without outstanding physical skills. Keenum was paid $7 million last season. I’d offer him about $5 million as a backup. The Browns also are reportedly looking at Chase Daniels. He’s not as attractive. THE BOTTOM LINE The last thing the new regime wants to do is search for another starting QB. Analytics is important to the front office, and analytics loved Mayfield when he came out of Oklahoma. Had former V.P. Sashi Brown remained in charge of that draft, my guess is he would have used the top pick on Mayfield. The analytics and basic football stats were very promising after Mayfield’s rookie season. So the Browns still believe in him for a variety of reasons. The Browns haven’t said so, but I believe they want to challenge him – and they’re not afraid to do it. https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2020/02...r-mayfield.html
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Article Title: Unflattering Photo of Baker Mayfield With Giants’ Stars Has People Thinking He’s Gained Weight (PIC + TWEETS) You can read and view here: https://www.totalprosports.com/2020/01/3...ght-pic-tweets/#workinghard
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I've always been curious as to why many assume that because you pay someone that young so much money that it automatically means they know how to be a consummate professional and have a full understanding of what it takes. We don't expect that from anyone else at that age. Instead we actively teach and foster those things. As with anyone else Baker is ultimately responsible for his own actions. But when you put a guy on a team under Freddie Kitchens and John Dorsey, neither of whom placed any importance on running a disciplined, professional team, it's hard to fault the QB for not emulating a behavior his superiors themselves don't demonstrate.
"Hey, I'm a reasonable guy. But I've just experienced some very unreasonable things."
-Jack Burton
-It looks like the Harvard Boys know what they are doing after all.
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That's a valid point - different sport, but one of the things I have always said about LeBron is that I will always be monumentally impressed that at age 18 or 19 Nike signed him to a $90 million deal - and it never impacted his performance on or off the court. LeBron is one of the exceptions and should be a role model for any young athlete about to become fabulously wealthy.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
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J/C
Frankly, I was disgusted by his overall performance last year. He showed nothing. Besides the inaccuracy (throwing over the receivers - a lot), there was practically no anticipation. It looked as though he had no idea where the receivers were supposed to be at the tops of their routes. It also looked like he tended to lock on to his first read, and if that receiver was covered, he either took off running or tried to throw into an impossible window. And his magical "rabbit-out-of-the-hat" throws completely disappeared. I would tend to blame these things on a general lack of preparation and study, unfamiliarity with the playbook, and overall laziness. He said it himself, they thought it would be easy. That is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard.
Unless he can read the defenses, learn the routes, anticipate his throws, go through his progressions, read the field, and find the open man (because with our talent pool there should always be at least one) all the footwork and weight loss in the world won't matter one whit. He needs to step it up on a personal responsibility level in a major way or he is finished.
Personally, I would trade this year's first and second and next year's first for a shot at Burrow, trade Baker to the highest bidder, and never look back because I question his ability to put in the work, and get the job done. I am deeply disappointed in his lack of performance this past year and question whether he has what it takes. It was shocking how bad he was. The only reason there is any hope at all is that he did show something his first year, and he must know his career is on the line. JMHO
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/hfMNC7T.jpg) "I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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Coming out, I thought Baker was one of the most accurate passers I'd seen in years. And he displayed that often his rookie year. But I agree with you to the extent that I was baffled by his lack of accuracy last year. I couldn't decide of it was the bulk he added, the plays, or the scheme... I don't think it's not fixable, but I won't be happy if it's not fixed by the end of camp this year.
I'm not going to comment on the coaching/FO changes but right now I'm feeling pretty uninspired to follow the Browns... I hope this feeling changes by the time the season starts because I have never followed another team, but I'm struggling to continue being a diehard fan.
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Coming out, I thought Baker was one of the most accurate passers I'd seen in years. And he displayed that often his rookie year. But I agree with you to the extent that I was baffled by his lack of accuracy last year. I couldn't decide of it was the bulk he added, the plays, or the scheme... I don't think it's not fixable, but I won't be happy if it's not fixed by the end of camp this year.
I'm not going to comment on the coaching/FO changes but right now I'm feeling pretty uninspired to follow the Browns... I hope this feeling changes by the time the season starts because I have never followed another team, but I'm struggling to continue being a diehard fan. It was all three, plus (and the biggest factor) other teams had tape on him. The tape is the key. The treat ones adjust their game to overcome the tape.
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I'm not going to comment on the coaching/FO changes but right now I'm feeling pretty uninspired to follow the Browns... I hope this feeling changes by the time the season starts because I have never followed another team, but I'm struggling to continue being a diehard fan. I'm sorry to say it, but I feel the exact same way.
"I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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Safety is a huge need and a major hole on the defense. I am loving Xavier McKinney S from Alabama. He reminds me of Ed Reed. Major ballhawk and can blitz and is a major playmaker the Browns Defense is sorely lacking. Take him at 10.
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Here are the Browns picks in the 2020 Draft assuming, Berry doesn't trade down:
1st round 10
2nd Round 41
3rd Round 74
3rd Round 90
4th Round 115
6th Round 187
7th Round 237
7th Round 245
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At 41, TE is also a major need. They need to move on from Njoku. I really like Cole Kmet TE from Notre Dame
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At 74, I am liking Noah Igbinoghene CB from Auburn. Greedy had a disappointing year, and Ward is too injury prone and gets burned too many times to keep around.
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At 74, I am liking Noah Igbinoghene CB from Auburn. Greedy had a disappointing year, and Ward is too injury prone and gets burned too many times to keep around. Really 
John 3:16 Jesus said "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."
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J/C
I think the new staff is right to challenge Baker ... I feel like he wasn’t coached or taught last season. He needs to seriously dive into film study, mechanics, and an individual plan for improvement.
In terms of a backup, I like the idea of a Keenum or Chase Daniel if we could manage it
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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At 41, TE is also a major need. They need to move on from Njoku. I really like Cole Kmet TE from Notre Dame Since Njoku is still on his rookie deal, it’s cheap to keep him and see if there is anything there. He may have that elusive “third season epiphany” people talk about. I wonder if/how his skills will match the new scheme, blocking-wise.
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I think ideally we’d make him a WR/TE type and acquire/draft more of a blocking TE (that’s a position that we sorely missed last season)
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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Refs, um, yeah... if you could move the draft talk to the draft thread that'd be great.
"I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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I agree. I have said several times the kid looked heavy. I also chalked it up to the long process from winning the Heisman, all the stuff leading up to the draft, the season. He also got married. The long season as explained and getting married makes for a lazy off-season. I can give a pass for that. This season is different. He needs to come back in a more chiseled form. He had his full off season off. Now, if he wants to be a good qb, he gets a month off after the season and maybe a few weeks before camp. It's a big year for Baker and the Dorsey draft legacy.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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My bad, didnt see the Draft Message Board.
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Browns have a very tough schedule this year. To have a winning season, the defense needs massive upgrades, Mayfield needs to put in the work, personally, I would tank for Lawrence next year, and the play calling needs major improvement. Mayfield will not lead any team anywhere. He folds in the clutch, he doesnt read defenses well, his footwork is not good,and he puts his receivers in bad positions. He isn't the answer at QB.
I dont see too many wins this year. Cowboys and Redskins got major Head Coaching upgrades. They have the Colts, Titans, Texans, and Jags. Bengals should be getting Burrow, which they only split last year vs the Bengals. Raiders will be most likely a loss. Jets is a potential win, Giants are a potential win, other than that, I think there will be a lot of losses next year
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j/c Imagine what Baker could have done as a rookie if he was a hard-worker. He might have even won the all-time rookie QB TD record. As a hard-worker in college he may have been able to rise from walk-on to starter to Heisman winner. If only..  Imagine if as a rookie he would have been able to compete for the starting job in TC...and played a few more games to try and win the all-time rookie TD record. Imagine if Freddie would have called plays (beyond the first-scripted batch) that the team had actually practiced during the week...imagine if the entire team knew how to line up timely and knew what was the play. Sorry...Baker didn't go from chip-on-shoulder, hard-worker to lazy fat donkey in one off-season...no way. Did he prep as much/well as he could/should have? Probably not. Being able to actually practice with your starting WRs and running plays (in games) that were practiced during the week would have been a big help though. 2019 will go down as yet-another lost season for the Browns. The only things we learned were bad/awful things - except for Chubb. Dysfunction, ego, strife, etc. We learned nothing about the future on many young players (Baker, Ward, Njoku) and burned up another prime-time year of guys like Bitonio, Tretter, Landry, S Richardson, Shobert, etc. Poor job-performances forced yet-another coaching overhaul and GM replacement. Any evaluation of anything - other than Chubb - has to include a caveat that 'things' were so screwed up on so many levels that it's almost unreasonable to draw a conclusion/evaluation on much of anything.
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Imagine if he had done that last season. We all know that his HC made him less accurate and worse than he was in 2018.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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I think it is a mind boggling decision to let Van Pelt call plays in the pre-season, to see whether he or Stefanski are going to call plays. It's mind-boggling decisions like this, that results in non-stop losses for this organization.
Last edited by Browns2020; 02/29/20 01:29 PM.
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Totally agree with your comments on Busterfield
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Imagine if he had done that last season. We all know that his HC made him less accurate and worse than he was in 2018. Imagine what? That Baker called the plays that they actually practiced during the week? Or that he actually COULD have practiced with his starting WRs in TC? Or even during the week? When one understands just how poor was the coaching and thick was the dysfunction it's easy to conclude that no one player on the team - perhaps in the league - could overcome the BS. When Landry publicly states that he had no idea where the plays were coming from - after the first-scripted batch - there is no amount of off-season, QB-specific 'work' that could fix that problem.
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What he is getting paid is irrelevant to the quality of player he is and so you are going to keep a bad player because he is cheap. Explain how that translates to winning. He is inconsistent, and has very questionable hands
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They need 53 players like Nick Chubb. He goes to work, keeps his mouth shut, and is an elite player. Love watching him play. He stands out big time on this team
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What he is getting paid is irrelevant to the quality of player he is and so you are going to keep a bad player because he is cheap. Explain how that translates to winning. He is inconsistent, and has very questionable hands He's 23 years old...he's played two seasons and about 3 games...he's a freak athlete...he needs to improve on his hands. That - plus a cheap contract - are the exact and perfect reasons why you give him another year. Not to mention the dearth of options behind him.
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We will agree to disagree. I think he stinks
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You mentioned a lot of things. How did any of those things make him less accurate when he threw the ball?
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Deshaun Watson was sacked the most times last year of any QB at 55x. He produced 26 TDs and 12 INTs. Russell Wilson was sacked the 2nd most times at 54 and he produced 31 TDs and 5 INTs. Kyler Murray and Matt Ryan were tied for 3rd most times sacked at 48. Kyler Murray had 20 TDs and 12 INTs, Matt Ryan had 26 TDs and 14 INTs.
Mayfield was tied for 9th most times sacked with Jimmy Garoppolo and Ryan Fitzpatrick at 40. Jimmy Garoppolo had 27 TDs 13 INTs, and Fitzpatrick 20 TDs 13 INTs, as compared to 22 TDs and 21 INTs for Mayfield
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j/c:
Personally, I would not give up on Baker and tank for another player. I would not trade Baker. I would keep him and demand more accountability. I still think he has a chance to be good.
I also don't buy all the excuses that are being made for him. I think his issues are pretty easy to recognize.
Ultimately, I think this upcoming season is going to go a long, long way in shaping Baker's career. It's time to put the work in, evolve as a person, and concentrate more on football and less on outside influences.
Just my opinion on the different takes that have occurred since I posted the two articles this morning.
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Baker .....
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