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I don't think Mack played us. He was pretty upfront. He was leaving.

Schwartz is the one who played us.

Schwartz certainly upset me much more than Mack. I miss Mack much more myself. Was actually glad to be rid os Schwartz, but really not pleased with the sleds we put in place later.

I hated losing both of those guys - while understanding why they would want to leave the cluster that we had then...and continued on after they left.

I had to look up this train-wreck:

During Mack's Browns career ('09-'14) he played for Mangini, Shurmur, Chudzinski & Pettine.

The GMs were Kokinis (meaning Mangini), Heckert, Lombardi & Farmer.

Yikes.

Schwartz was here from '12-'15.

Talk about musical chairs of leadership

Not only was Mack rightfully leaving a horrible situation (no direction other than constant losing), but he was also going to a fantastic situation. He was getting pushed out of Cleveland and pulled to Atlanta.

Dude followed Shanny, who had Mack playing his best (which is saying something since Mack was so solid year-in/out). He went to a team that made a legit SB run. That offense was incredible. Oh yeah... dude got PAID.

Cleveland was a dumpster fire. Atlanta (at least their offense) was just about to go nuts. Mack knew he'd be playing in an offense well-suited to him.

Boom. End of story.

Yeah, by all intents and purposes Atlanta should have been Super Bowl champs

Can't say I was glad to be rid of either one. I just think Mack did it the right way and let it be known he wasn't going to sign here.

In general, I tend to give the players the benefit of the doubt in these situations (in general... I know every situation/person is different). Players try to walk a thin line between appearing to be loyal to fans/teams while also doing what's best for them. To me, Mack made it clear he (understandably) didn't want to be part of this mess, while dodging the 'malcontent' label.

I really think Mack handled it better. Each got what they wanted. Just not hoping to embrace these two outcomes as something to embrace as precedents going forward. With Schwartz, we didn't allow ourselves to be used as a chip for his eventual contract. That may be incorrect or invalid, but it struck me that way at the time. Mack handled it better.

I think both Mack and Schwartz handled it better than Sashi did.

Joe thomas fits that and he stayed.. I guess character doesn't matter anymore

... . Did you really have to go there? Go ahead...fan the flames. ,

Both made decisions regarding Cleveland during their careers, and I don't blame either for their choices.

It's really no different than us working at our respective jobs. Different companies/divisions/sites have their positives and negatives. I would never blame someone for leaving a bad work situation for something that's obviously better... especially when they were professional and transparent the whole time.

The Browns issues were they did not win and played musical chairs with their coaches and GM's.

Let's make sure we have the Mack facts correct. Mack wanted big money and he didn't care where he got it from. On April 9, 2014, it was announced that the Jacksonville Jaguars, who just had a 4-12 season like the Browns, offered Mack a five-year contract worth reportedly $42 million. The Browns had a maximum of five days to match Jacksonville's offer, which they did on April 11. Mack had been previously assigned the transition tag, nullifying his free agency unless a team signed Mack to an offer sheet. During Week 6 against the Pittsburgh Steelers on October 12, 2014, Mack was carted off the field due to a leg injury. X-rays tested positive that his leg had a broken fibula, forcing Mack out for the rest of the 2014 campaign. Prior to Mack's injury, he had never missed a single snap in his professional career. On March 2, 2016, Mack voided his 5-year contract with the Cleveland Browns thus making him a free agent. Yes, he eventually left for Atlanta but they were only 8-8 in 2015 even though the Browns had improved to 7-9 without his services in 2015. Yes it turned out to be a good situation with the Falcons going 11-5 in 2016 but it certainly wasn't because he wanted to be on a winner, it just happened to work out that way. After all, he was poised to go to Jacksonville. Even at that, the Browns gave him the long term deal but he wanted out and voided the deal.

Schwartz was a little different because again the Browns offered a big contract but Schwartz bolted to KC for less money. The Chiefs were 11-5 in 2015 so Schwartz did bolt to a winner and KCC went 12-4 his first year there and won the Super Bowl his 4th year in KC. The Browns might have offered more money but they didn't offer stability or the chance to win.

That said, there's no guarantees from the player or the team. It's a business period. The Browns have some big deals coming up soon - Garrett, Chubb, Ward and Mayfield. The thought is each of these players will be signed but will they? What's the mindset of the players? Do they strive to play for a winner? Do they want to test the market? Do they just want out like Mack and Schwartz or are they committed like Thomas?

I'm not so sure the Browns sign all these guys, too many variables. First will be how high the Browns have to go to keep Garrett. Second would be will the Browns pay the high dollar for a RB when recent history is showing that it would be a bad investment. Mayfield will be a no brainer if the Browns are winning but Wards deal could be contingent on what the Browns do with Garrett, Chubb and Mayfield. Lots of questions with not to many answers due to uncontrolled variables. Time will tell...….

Plus add in the length of average NFL career....don't stay in a bad situation a day longer than you need to....GO Browns!!!

Again, the Browns made Schwartz a contract offer, but his brother, who played for the Chiefs, said that Mitch should check with them and see what they would offer. Mitch did that. He didn't shop the league. He checked with the team his brother played for, before coming back to the Browns to accept their offer. The Browns then cut their offer. Bear in mind that this was during the "legal tampering period".

So, Schwartz then went to the Chiefs .... where he won a Super Bowl. We, on the other hand, were stuck with Austin Pasztor. it's no coincidence that we allowed 66 sacks in 2016, even with Joe Thomas. (and, IIRC, we got 3 or 4 QBs crushed and knocked out that year)

I guess that depends on what you think character is. Most people think what's doing what's best for your career is doing what's best for your family. Most people think doing what's best for your family is the highest level of your character.

Then there are football fans who think what's doing best for their teams is a measurement of character. I think anyone who would value dedication to a corporation over doing what's best for their family needs to take a long look in the mirror.

People who think a player should care more about dedication to a team over their family may wish to join them.

Sorry, didn't know posting the article about players likely to be cut would totally derail this thread, haha.

That is right except that the Browns' original offer to Schwartz was a generous one to get him to sign before the Free Agency period started and his agent was told the offer would be reduced once it began.

I meant to put that in there, but forgot. Thanks for pointing that out!

And he got back to them the day before contracts could be signed.

So .... who got hurt in that deal? Schwartz? He went to a winning team, and won a Super Bowl last year.

The Browns played a year with .... Austin Pasztur at RT ... getting all kinds of QBs killed. We even had to sign some guy off the street to start a few games. We have struggled to try to find a suitable RT ever since Schwartz left. Hopefully we have done so now .... what .... 5 years later?

Really, you believe the Browns can sign Clowney to a 1-year deal for 10-million plus when he's already rejected 18.5 million over 3-years? That would never happen in a million years. The only way you get Clowney is a 2-year or multi year deal. He just came off a 1-year deal with the franchise tag of 17.12 million so he's not interested in that type of deal. He also had a no franchise tag agreement put into his deal with the Seahawks so the chance of him signing a 1-year deal was spelled out long ago.

Now maybe he signs for 17-18 million long term with a team he feels is going to win and be playoff bound but I think it's a pipe dream that he signs a 1-year deal and 10 million isn't even a viable discussion point. He has nothing to prove so a prove it deal is a dream. I agree that his price will/might come down the closer camp gets but there's a market for him - it's just the price and years and 1-year at 10 million is not even a talking point.

I don't disagree with a thing you've said about Schwartz and Mack in this thread. However, to the above that I have bolded & italicized...Schwartz lost a fair amount of money when his bluff got called.

We both lost at the moment it happened.

Another point about Clowney. He could have left the franchise tag ability in his contract with the Seahawks and been franchised this year for 120% of his 2019 franchise tag meaning he would have made 20.54 million in 2020 with another franchise tag.

Now rumor would have it that the Seahawks offered Clowney a 4-year deal that was backend loaded. Details are sketchy but it was something like 14.5-million year 1 with escalators of 2.75 million for years 2 thru 4 where he's make 17.25 million in year 2, 20 million in year 3 and 22.75 million in year 4 which works out to 18.6-million per year. Naturally, Clowney has rejected this because of the back end load and the eventual cut chances in years 3 and 4.

I don't expect Clowney to sign anywhere that doesn't have either a front end loaded deal or huge guarantees. He's turned down a 1-year deal by refusing to be tagged and he's turned down a 4-year 18.6 million dollar backend loaded deal. It's obvious that neither one of those options are going to land Clowney.

Letting Schwartz walk was CRIMINAL.

JUST LIKE SCHOBERT!!!!!!!!!

Look at the clowns we have coming back at linebacker.

INEXCUSABLE!!!!!!!!!!!!

I agree... we committed Grand Theft!

The 3rd round compensatory pick we should get for Scho will be way better than he was.

Yea, keep thinking that when our pathetic linebackers whiff all year.

I’m sure Mitch is THRILED Sashi and company were morons ... sometimes the smartest guy(s) in the room ain’t so smart ... its called being to smart for your own good ....

We said we were going to look for and retain good young players and then they messed up and bit there noses to spite there faces ... BRILLIANT!!!

Too bad we won’t get a pick back because we signed Hooper and Conklin.

I think we made a mistake by not "taking" Schwartz back after he tested the waters...but..we said the deal was off if not accepted beforehand.

Keeping one's word doesn't always pan out at the moment...but that goes a long way when trying to establish something...anything.

Schwartz lost a TON of money and we lost a terrific RT. Both sides lost. Smart or dumb or something more detailed...both sides lost.

I wonder if Schwartz, the Super Bowl Champion, thinks he lost?

I wonder if Schwartz' financial planner thinks he lost?
After all, these guys are businessmen who sacrifice their bodies and brains for the almighty dollar.

No way the agent who created that loss, believed that Alex Smith was going to be able to lead the way to the promised land and - with wins - make up for the $$$ lost.

In the real world, decisions get made based on the information available at the time the decision is made. Hindsight is always 20/20.

Both Schwartz' bank account and the Browns team lost that day.

We disagree on who lost. That's fine.

I think Sashi was a moron for pulling the offer. The Browns lost big-time. It was one of many terrible decisions he made.

Schwartz didn't lose in any sense of the word.

I've stated numerous times on this board that the Browns - Sashi and/or anyone else involved - made a mistake by playing hardball there. I understand why he/they did that, but it was a mistake.

Sashi's best act was bumbling Hue's "trade" for McCarron...and his biggest mistake was not firing Hue by the end of the win less season.

Except for what... a million dollars?

Oh, I see.

What does Hue have to do w/any of what we were discussing?

We're not really having a legit conversation. You are just looking to argue. Have a good night.