DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Free Agency Part III

I tend to go along with your thought process of it being heavily addressed next year.

And I do think this group has done a great job assembling more talent to this point.

Yet we've seen teams built, torn apart and rebuilt several times now over the past two decades. While it has been a terrible failure I have taken one lesson from it.

No new FO can build the entire team the way they want it in one off season. It's just not possible. I do think this FO had one advantage coming into it. There was certainly more talent already on the roster for them to build on than any other FO since 1999.

But I still don't believe the roster is where they want it to be at every position. I think the LB position is one such case.

My guess is that it is a position group that the front office doesn’t value because you can sub guys in and out based on situation.

If I take just that one particular thought on it's own.

Then it means they should have given Freddie and Dorsey more time.

oh, my first reaction was, I hate the words next year.
Tryin to convince me the team will do anything "next year" is an absolute crock. The time for next year is over.

I think it is over. We were aggressive and signed some key free agents and had what looks to be a very good draft. We got lucky in a few spots where BPA was also filling some critical needs.

Or we want our LBs to play downhill and throw their bodies around. They expect them to get banged up and need replaced. No sense in paying a ton for an expensive one who "can cover" if that's not what they want them to focus on.

Focus on getting in the backfield and negative plays on early downs, so you don't need more than one LB on the field in long down and distance situations.

Mack needed seasoning last year. He got some. We'll see what he does with it.

Just thinking "out loud."

You missed the mark by a mile. It's not isolated to the Browns. Any time an entire new regime takes place on any NFL team it undergoes a lot of roster change that doesn't all take place in the first year. We will see other positions and players addressed next off season to make the talent on the roster more and more in tune with what the new coaching staff wishes to implement.

This season will be a feeling out process on where and how much will need to be done at different positions. ie... We have two very young LB'ers. Will we need to add talent there or will they progress enough to be able to avoid that? Only time will answer that question.

I'm hesitant to sign any sort of lucrative deal that would effect the 2021 salary cap. The salary cap adjusts based on the previous year's net income for the entire league. There is a high likelihood that the cap may drop next year due to the financial impact of the outbreak not only within the league but in regards to the spending money of its fans.

No doubt it will balloon in 2022 with the expanded playoffs and new television deal income, but all teams may face a hurdle to get past 2021 nonetheless.

Strange days...

Curiouser and Curiouser. . . .

That cap will be interesting to watch.

JADEVEON CLOWNEY
DL, UNSIGNED FREE AGENT

The Cleveland Plain-Dealer's Mary Kay Cabot reports the Browns "haven't given up on" signing free agent Jadeveon Clowney.

Clowney and current Browns DE Myles Garrett share the same agent, Bus Cook, and Cook has been talking with the Browns about both players' contract situations, as Garrett is seeking a long-term deal. Clowney reportedly received his best offer from the Browns earlier in the offseason, but it wasn't close to what he was looking for, which is believed to still be around $17-18 million per year. Clowney is staying patient and playing the long game as the country continues to deal with bigger issues outside of sports.

RELATED: Cleveland Browns
SOURCE: Cleveland Plain-Dealer
Jun 13, 2020, 9:08 AM ET

How much does it cost to ride the pine for a season?

Any chance the agent is holding this up? Unfamiliar with his reputation and track record. I figure the longer it goes, that may be a piece of this pie. No reason to sell the farm for him. JMO.

At this point it could be that Clowney and his agent are playing the long game. In the event that a team has a major injury of a key player at the position, is value may go up.

Maybe so. Not arguing it may happen just like that. But his value is already up, inflated by his ego as to the deal he deserves and the money he feels he can command. Waiting for an injury seems like drawing to an inside straight. He would have little control in his decision as far as club and location.

Seems to have many better choices as I see it in FA. But I still wonder how genuinely helpful his agent is being. But the wait and see leads us back to my first question, how much does riding the pine subtract from a contract after rejecting offers and having to scale back bloated expectations? Seems well on the road to a "show me" which has all the features he wants to avoid. Can't be a star if you don't suit up. Maybe he is gunning for retiring.

We don't actually see this all that differently. Maye in a couple of places and one major misgiving you seem to have on one of my opinions.

That misgiving would be Baker. I'm not one to say that Baker, "may not be" a great QB. What I do look at is the difference between 2018 and 219. While the systems and coaches were different, his accuracy was certainly starkly different. So to me the jury is out an what Baker will become. I don't make the claim that some do by either predicting greatness or a failure from him because the jury is still out. To me it could go either way but as a Browns fan I am staying cautiously optimistic.

And I do agree that talent is the driving force to success. Yet at the same time I look at it sort of like an auto race. No matter how great your car has the potential to perform, without a great driver, that car isn't going to win any races. I compare that driver to the HC.

You also have your pit crew and mechanics. I liken that to the coaching staff as a whole. Without them having your car in top shape, being able to adapt and perform at peak ability, your car will not win any races.

We haven't see this HC ever drive a car in a race before. While we all hope for the best and many claim they know how he will perform, we really have no idea.

So while we agree that the talent is a must have from the very beginning, I see how important other parts of this equation are. And there are a lot of questions still left unanswered.

In no world is Clowney worth more than Calais Campbell..I don't care how long he waits. I'd throw 15 mill/year at Griffen way before Clowney

Baker's issue in 2019 was not his accuracy...it was his consistency.

He didn't become an inaccurate passer in one off-season at his age.

JMO

It just seemed like he was never comfortable ... whether that was the offense, the need to get OBJ the ball, a lack of trust in the OL, etc .. he was “off” from the get go

You listed three possible reasons why he was uncomfortable. None of those reasons mentioned Baker himself. That's not very realistic or fair.

PFF's Steve Palazzolo was interviewed on local sports talk yesterday, and he mentioned Beckham "rounded off" his 18-yard dig routes (square-in) "so many times" and that it was one of the reasons for Mayfield's difficulty connecting with him. On timing routes, a receiver needs to be where the QB expects him to be, and that wasn't always the case. Maybe Beckham's injury prevented him from accelerating out of breaks like he used to?

It was a wide ranging interview, worth listening to, but the parts about Beckham were between the 5 and 7 minute mark.

https://923thefan.radio.com/articles/steve-palazzolo-no-edge-rusher-is-worth-top-money

well I ASSumed that goes without saying haha .. I mean everyone’s still in charge of their own performance

No world except the sports world. You're not paying for past production, you're paying for future production in a system where the pool of money constantly increases.

Clowney hasn't benefited from exceptional secondary play. His time in Seattle was post-Legion of Boom. Houston didn't really have a shutdown secondary, either.

I'm curious to see what he could do with QBs having to hold the ball longer.

He's the only name you mentioned that isn't over 30. In sports, that matters when it comes to cost.

If you mean his accuracy was inconsistent, then we agree. I just see that as being the same thing while you seem to see that as two different things.

You absolutely use past performance to determine value, and hes never been worth 15 million let alone the 17-20m..he's never had elite numbers and 20m a year is elite territory. I've said before, if thats where hes at, I roll with vernon/Clayborn. Or if I'm looking for a 1/2 year stop gap Griffen. If Clowney wants to be reasonable and we can get some type of package deal down with Bus then that benefits the browns long term, but if he's feeling lowballed at 15m thats just not real life. But I admit, him and a motivated MG could be scary.. Clowney needs a stud on the other side to be productive. In the end its not my money, but I don't think DE is an area we are weak enough to worry about, I'm more concerned about LB

I think we have a coaching staff who may be able to game plan around "2019 Baker" if that happens. I also agree the kid has enough talent that he can overcome the sophomore slump.

With a new coaching staff being held back from working with the players to install new systems and verbage on both sides of the ball, I think all teams, including ourselves, are put at a distinct disadvantage with the virus.

So I think that will certainly be an obstacle.

"I think we have a coaching staff who may be able to game plan around "2019 Baker" if that happens."

And that game plan would be Case Keenum.

Case Keenum is not a good quarterback.

I repeat...Case Keenum is not a good quarterback.

Case Keenum is a fine backup QB. That is all.

The injury absolutely was an issue, no way he could be effective with a serious sports hernia. I expect everyone to be on the same page this season even though it is a new offense.

Any new word son Clowney yet? Still chasing him? Gave up on him? Signed?

Holding pattern as of now

I'm not sure what you see in my opinion that was "ridiculous"?

I was simply trying to have a conversation with you about the topic. But I should have known better.

Thanks for the answer. Hadn't heard. The way this has been handled by him, his agent, or the pair of them makes me feel like this is a problem if he is signed. There are some 'dudes up with which we should not put. Get somebody else in unless The Numbers on The Deal are worth issues. Going to be hard to keep folks happy getting their prime time, a "problem" when you have depth in talent.

I am willing to risk it if he buys into playing hard here.

j/c

Random thought...I'd rather trade for Jamal Adams than sign Clowney. Adams would have a greater positive impact on our defense than adding Clowney.

What is the compensation required to get Adams versus getting Clowney?

Clowney: My guess is that it will take $18 million\yr. Likely a 2 year contract. No draft pick compensation as he is a free agent.

Adams: will need to rework his contract. My guess is $15-18 million\yr for 4 years. We also need to trade for him as he is currently a jet. We would definitely have to give up our 1st rounder next year and some additional compensation. A 3rd or a 4th most likely. Maybe Njoku instead of that 2nd pick.

Only included the part of the article that is relevant to Adams. Click the link at the bottom for the rest of the article

What about Jamal Adams? How will offense work? Let’s talk Cleveland Browns!
Today 5:32 AM


By Terry Pluto, The Plain Dealer
WHAT ABOUT JAMAL ADAMS?

Some Browns fans have been wondering about the Browns dealing for Jamal Adams. After all, he is a big time safety. The Browns need a safety, right?

Adams reportedly is demanding a trade from the Jets. He makes $7.7 million this season, and $9.9 million in 2021. Adams wants to be the highest-paid safety in the NFL, meaning more than $15 million annually.


Adams is a fierce tackling safety, especially effective in the Gregg Williams blitzing system. He had 6.5 sacks and 13 QB hits in 2019. The Jets supposedly turned down a first- and third-round pick from Dallas for Adams last season.


Here’s what the Browns have to be thinking:

1. Is Adams worth at least one first round pick and other stuff?

2. Along with the picks, is he worth a new contract that would raise the bar for other Browns young stars coming up for extensions?


3. Is safety where you want to put your big money? Why haven’t the Jets signed him? The Jets have $24 million in salary cap space, according to overthecap.com.

One of the big arguments for an Adams trade is the Pittsburgh Steelers ... as in their 2019 deal for Minkah Fitzpatrick. They sent a 2020 first-rounder to Miami for the Alabama safety, and he delivered five interceptions and was an All-Pro selection. There were swaps of other lesser picks, but the key was the Steelers trading a first-rounder – something that organization hates to do.

Why did they do it?

1. When the Steelers traded for Fitzpatrick, he had been in the NFL for only one season. He had three years and a modest $6 million left on his original deal. He received a $10 million signing bonus.

2. Fitzpatrick isn’t even eligible to start talking about a contract extension until the spring of 2021. The Steelers have an option to keep him through the 2022 season.

3. Unlike Adams who wants a new deal and is eligible for that now, Fitzpatrick came with no contractual complications.

THE BIG PICTURE

The Browns have the NFL’s most salary cap room with $37 million. They also know they aren’t going to win the Super Bowl this season, although they don’t say it.

Let’s think about the situation:

1. The Browns have a new coaching staff, new offensive and defensive systems. No matter what they say, COVID-19 knocking out the on-field workouts is a huge setback. Zoom is one learning tool, but so much of football is muscle memory.

2. The Browns are talking about a massive contract extension for Myles Garrett. You’d rather put money into a pass-rushing defensive end than a safety.

3. This season is a chance to find out about QB Baker Mayfield. He isn’t eligible for a contract extension until 2021. But if he has a big year, Mayfield will be expensive at some point.


4. Nick Chubb and Denzel Ward also are eligible for extensions in 2021. Ward has to show he can stay healthy and be the Pro Bowl cornerback he was as a rookie in 2018. Chubb is simply the best Browns running back I’ve seen since the Jim Brown/Leroy Kelly days of my youth.

5. Larry Ogunjobi is eligible for an extension. The new front office likes him and values defensive linemen.

6. It’s hard to imagine the Browns putting huge money into a safety such as Adams. The Browns want and expect improvement over the 6-10 record in 2019. But they also need to find out about some of their younger players and plan for contract extensions.


THEN THERE’S THE DRAFT


The Browns were thrilled to get Grant Delpit in the second round. I’m told they had a first-round grade (or at least a very high-second round grade) on Delpit. They think the LSU safety can be an impact player while on a rookie contract.

After the draft, Kevin Stefanski gushed about Delpit: “You can play him in every job in the back end (defensive backfield) except corner. He can be in the post. He can be down low. He can play the nickel. He can play the dime. A guy who can play across the defense is impressive.”

Lots of football jargon, but point is the Browns were already imagining different ways to use Delpit.


“He is a playmaker and something we’ll stress is making plays on the ball,” added Stefanski.

There are issues with Delpit’s tackling beyond the fact he played with a high-ankle sprain part of last season. But the Browns believe that will improve. GM Andrew Berry loves Delpit’s “toughness ... he played with that injury that would have put a lot of players out of commission.”

Delpit was the Jim Thorpe Award winner as the nation’s top defensive back.

“He’s a very accomplished football player,” said Berry. “His skillset is very difficult to find. It allows you more flexibility as a defensive coordinator.”

FACT: They want Delpit to play and believe he will make an immediate impact at safety.

The Browns signed veterans Karl Joseph and Andrew Sendejo. Joseph is a hard-hitter, best against the run. They have Sheldrick Redwine left over from the 2019 draft. He showed a bit of promise. They signed Elijah Benton (Liberty) as an undrafted free agent. I heard he was one of the Browns’ top targets in that market.


https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2020/06...and-browns.html