DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Mayfield Says He "Absolutely" Doubted Himself Last Year

jc -

I've tried to watch as much of training camp as possible.

I think Baker gets maybe 20-ish 11-on-11 reps during the course of a practice. They are not always with the 1s and not always against the 1s.

Is that enough to get these guys ready for the season? Man, it doesn't seem like it.

As I was typing this, Baker just threw a laser to Odell for a TD during practice down at the stadium.

Baker to Hooper TD.

Practice seems like an awful lot of "teaching" and very little "practicing".

Ugh. This is maddening. Doesn't appear to be much sense of urgency. Would love to see a Ravens practice for comparison purposes.

Live tackling happening now!

And that's what puts teams with new coaching staffs so far behind.

When you have an established system, the veterans can pick up some of the load in helping the rookies and those just signed along. You can actually work right away with practicing an established system.

When the entire system and coaching staff is new, the new system must first be established in order to practice it.

All teams with new coaching staffs are severely behind the eight ball in a year where much of the early time when the system can be taught has been very limited. And no preseason games only amplifies the situation.

Nothing wrong w/teaching. I believe in quality of reps over quantity. I never allowed bad practice habits. If we saw them occur, we stopped and taught.

I have no idea if the teaching is good or not w/the Browns, but teaching is more valuable than a ton of reps. Especially, early on.

God bless and good luck bro ...

Thanks for the response ....

In fairness, the Ravens have a lot less "teaching" to do, which concerns me - as it should fans of any team with a new staff - regarding how well we play against teams that have had more stability in place with the type of offseason we've had.

So there are some new Mayfield Progressive commercials i stumbled upon on YouTube. Gotta admit they are pretty damn funny.

Bob the grounds keeper is awesome.

j/c...



Somewhere, Memphis' #FreeToddMonken is smiling with vindication.

Justice is served!

Additional commentary from Brent....

Funny how many people defended Freddie on here last year.

Before or after we/they thought he was bad?

j/c:

A couple of questions and comments:

--Who is Brent Slobeski? I went to his page and let's just say he doesn't look like a real journalist. Here is his description:



I think that there are a lot of so-called experts out there that are being used to further agendas.

--Who was calling the non-scripted plays during the second half of the 2018 season for Baker Mayfield?

I don't think Freddie was a good head coach. However, I think cherry-picking stats is pretty lame. I also don't think Baker's situation was all that bad last year. He had a ton of talent around him that most qbs would love to have.

I think Baker was terrible last year. I think others were terrible, too. I just don't buy all the excuses by amateurs who are painting a one-dimensional picture.

I am undecided on whether or not Baker will be good this year. I am not writing him off. I am also not blaming most of his problems from last year on others. I could see Baker having a big year. I could see Baker struggling again, although not as bad as last year. I do think that a lot of excuses have been made for the guy.

Edit: I am not answering those who try and make this about me, rather than talking about Baker, Sobo, Freddie, or the Browns.

I think how this particular stat is being interpreted is MOSTLY correct. But like most things (especially last season) there's more to the story than just coaching. That stat could just as easily speak to Baker's abilities when deviating from scripted plays. Could also speak to the preparation of the players around him when going off-script (looking at you over there in the wrong spot, OBJ...).

From the followup tweets, it sounds like this particular talking head wants to shift blame off of Baker onto Freddie. Freddie deserves blame, but so does Baker. So while I'm all for blaming Freddie for last year, I'm also not taking any of that blame off of Baker (if that makes sense).

Brent Sobleski is no different than anyone on here.... he's a poster on a website. The OBR isn't journalism, but, like here, you do get people that have a clue and do some pretty good analysis. He's generally one of them.

Brent S is an "insider" at OBR (not that that means much).

I've read a lot of his articles over the years and he knows his stuff (doesn't mean he's always correct). I've read him being critical of Baker. I've read him being critical of the whole franchise. I didn't take the above as his shifting blame away from Baker as much as him spreading the blame around.

The whole Browns QB thing is so typically exhausting for us diehards to consider/evaluate...when was the last time we had a "normal" situation in-which to evaluate our QB? I don't think that has been a thing STR.

Oddly enough, when you showed the SOBO and beer snob parts of his bio, I realized that I'm friends with him on Untappd because of a mutual friend we have. Had no idea this whole time that's who he was. Just thought it was funny.

j/c

So to sum it all up, Baker was lying about the role he played and the issues he owned up to and somehow Brent Sobleski knows more than Baker.

Well played!

Rish posted this article in the Postgame thread. It's by Jake Burns and he wrote it after yesterday's game. I have to post the link because there are a lot of videos in it. However, Burns is pointing out many of the things I have been saying about Baker for quite some time.

https://247sports.com/nfl/cleveland-brow...ield-151465806/

It was more clear yesterday everything coming out of camp about Baker, can't process, slow eyes, happy feet. He's a 1 read QB at this point and that craziness of his feet when he's "reading the field" no clue what that is. Being that OBJ is OBJ and who knows what goes on in his head, I think he's probably sick of bad QB play. It probably leads to him being less invested and taking plays off. That needs to get fixed. Baker is going to lose the team if his play keeps up as it has. I honestly think Baker is just too short and doesn't know how to move in the pocket to see the throwing lanes. If you watch brees, hes stands in pocket sometimes on his tip toes and just does subtle moves to get a better view of the field. I'm willing to let him get a few games in this new system but I think at some point you have to just try something else before bad QB play costs another HC a job, or is it bad HC costs us a QB..who knows at his point

So mac, can you provide a better breakdown than Burns did? Can you provide videos like he did? Can you explain to us why his analysis is agenda driven and your opinions are not agenda driven?

I think it's a great article and breakdown of Baker's struggles. Hopefully Bake improves over the next several weeks. If he doesn't and can't we are in the market for a new QB in the off-season which would suck.

Mac, the article was very fair. I suggest you read it.

Burns is spot on in his assessment.

Unless it’s like last off-season when every QB was available.

Andy Dalton, Jameis Winston, Marcus Mariota or Derek Carr, and/or Alex Smith will all be available next off-season.

Of course this is all premature. It’s week one. Things should get better.

I read it (and enjoyed it for its info and breakdown but not its message and what it means for the team)... it does beg the age-old question, though.

Can Mayfield improve in these areas once he (and his pass-catchers) get comfortable in the offense? Once Mayfield gets comfortable with where his receivers are supposed to be, does that then free up more processing power to focus on the defense? When he no longer has to learn/focus on learning his own offense, will the extra prep-time allowed for the defense he'll be facing improve his performance?

I have tried to explain the differences in pre-snap and post-snap reads many times. I have tried to explain that it's easier to get better at pre-snap reads, but quickly reading pre-snap coverages is a completely different animal.

It's up to you on whether or not to believe those things or not.

J/c

We all want Baker to be the guy ... but simply put: he stinks. Could he improve? Maybe. I’m not a guru or evaluator. I just know that he can’t read a defense, isn’t comfortable, and seems shell shocked. His results are putrid for a #1 overall pick.

Baker does not even know how to read his own offense... Just look at how much time we need to line-up, and how Baker looks confused pre-snap with his own team.

Just bench him and let other QB do it. We actually have a good offense.

I like his chances of being the 3rd QB in NFL history to throw for 3500+ yds and 20+ touchdowns in their first 3 years.

Vers, Baker does not even know where is own offense is supposed to line-up, kid is a mess, he does not prepare.

I am almost wondering if game time just unravels him. I hope coach actually calls plays they practice. This should not be the first time he runs the play.

You can't survive on confidence, swagger, and playing with house money. We are seeing the results of someone who can't overcome when those things go away. We were all swayed by his rookie year where he had those things in abundance. Look, no one cared about how many wins we got that year or if we made the playoffs. There was zero pressure. He went out and beat up on bad teams and got us excited. He overstepped with the bravado his second year and got punched in the mouth. He has yet to make a counter punch. And at this level the counter punch becomes cerebral. He's yet to show he has it upstairs. There could be some physical limitations as well. Maybe he doesn't feel comfortable going through his progressions due to his height.

As his confidence begins to fade, his play will continue to decrease. I would pound the Bengals hard this week if you are a betting person. Burrow is playing with the same house money and zero expectations that Baker had his rookie year. He put together a game winning drive yesterday that got negated by a bogus call (the titans of the league would not have had that called against them). The Bengals are going to give the Browns all they can handle. And it doesn't look like our staff, who is supposed to be detailed and organized, has earned the benefit of the doubt that they will out coach the other side.

But can it improve (improve enough, if at all) is my question.

I don't know, oober. I'm concerned because the post-snap reads have undone many qbs. However, I'm not saying it's a done deal.

I do want to add that I am not blaming Baker for the pre-snap stuff and getting guys lined up. I don't think the not getting guys lined up is fair.

j/c

I've read Jake Burns for a long time. This is not the first time he has laid out some of Baker's issues. He's really good (Jake) at these types of breakdowns.

Some will complain about "excuses" and some see reasons...but perspective is in order here:

#1 - What Baker did his rookie year was not a fluke. It is also not a guarantee that he can continue playing like that;

#2 - Since his outstanding rookie year, he got a big head and a bad HC coach who was running a circus. HC #3 mid us.

#3 - His 3rd season - and 3rd training camp - he's on his 4th HC and limited COVID training camp.

First time HC calling plays, another new offense, a Center that didn't practice until a couple days before the game and new footwork in the mix. No pre-season games...and a #1 WR who isn't playing/hasn't-played any better than a #3.

His first offensive "system" in his rookie year suited him after the head coach was canned. His second year offensive "system" was build for something other than the 2019 Browns team. The 2020 offensive "system" is brand spanking new...again.

I mean...what could go wrong?

Lamar Jackson went to a solid, consistent, perennial playoff team with as much consistency in HC and front office as can be built. He's had (1) head coach in his NFL career going into year #3. His offense has been built to suit him from his first NFL snap.

Josh Allen went to a solid team that wasn't a playoff regular because they had Tom Brady in their division. His HC has been there before him and was able to do something with Tyrod Taylor. He's had (1) head coach in his NFL career going into year #3. His offense has been built to suit him from his first NFL snap.

Sam Darnold went to a team that was juuuuust behind us in the #1 loser department. His team and head coach are a train wreck. He looks like a rookie on the filed.

Josh Rosen went to a bad team who gave up on him in less than a year. He's toast.

If all we had to work against was COVID - like the other succeeding QBs listed above - I'd throw out that excuse. However, the situations that LJ & JA were drafted into are polar opposites from what Baker was drafted into.

We are starting over...AGAIN...but with some real talent on the team for a change. But this is going to take a minute. Starting with the Ravens did us no favors, but might be the best thing that happened to us in the long run.

In the end, we learned essentially nothing yesterday...other than we have a long way to go to complete with the likes of the Ravens.