I believe you. It's one of the reasons why I have never signed up w/Twitter. There are other reasons, but that is one of them.
I don't think posting stats and showing videos that break down Baker's reads and even saying things like I believe he is holding our offense back are even close to having a "meltdown," though. And it does bother me when people who were never fans of our team come in here and start bad-mouthing our team and our fans.
Large portions of the gameday thread do exist in an alternate dimension... that is certainly true. Fandom during the heat of battle is an amazing and horrifying thing.
Who was your question directed at? Are you asking for an example of an offending tweet at Baker and/or his wife?
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
I believe you. It's one of the reasons why I have never signed up w/Twitter. There are other reasons, but that is one of them.
I don't think posting stats and showing videos that break down Baker's reads and even saying things like I believe he is holding our offense back are even close to having a "meltdown," though. And it does bother me when people who were never fans of our team come in here and start bad-mouthing our team and our fans.
I am going to apologize. I thought you meant threads like this one. I never participate in the Game Day threads once the game starts. I don't even read them later. I have read some Cavs' threads back in the day and I bet the Brown's Game Day threads probably get ugly.
I'm sorry. I honestly thought you were taking a cheap shot. I was mistaken.
So you're blaming Baker for not being perfect because he is still learning a new offense when he is on his 4th HC in 3 years, there was no offseason or preseason, and the rest of the team is trying to catch up as well.
And still we are 4 and 2.
Got it.
IMHO, Baker has already spent his rookie season credit last year, and then some. Made too many rookie mistakes that have nothing to do with the amount of coaches, he is a slow learner, untalented player that does not work more than the guys who are better than him.
He should have been benched last year at the bye week, we would have been to the playoffs and probably with a viable starting QB this year to win the division.
Baker is by far the worst Qb in the division, and we need an elite QB to stand any chance for the next 5 years.
Baker needs to be benched because we face the real danger of losing the rest of the team if we don't...
LOL.........I have seen some of the college game day threads on here. It's brutal.
When I watch the Browns or Ohio State, I stay off the board. I like to focus my complete attention on the game. I post on the "Other Games" thread sometimes when there is a night game and I miss a bunch because I'm reading and/or typing. When I watch my teams, I want all my attention on the game.
Thanks for being cool about this, but I am still going to apologize again. I incorrectly interpreted your post. That's on me. I know you are a big Baker fan and that is cool, but you might want to avoid the Game Day threads. LOL They probably get crazy!!!
Btw--------P-Dawg is a straight shooter and he says that fans are tearing Baker and his wife up on Twitter. That's so freaking wrong. Football opinions are okay, but these people should not be subjected to personal attacks on their own Twitter accounts. That's classless.
Hmmmm............I just responded to your post, but yours is gone. Oh well...
I don't think Baker is good, but I would not bench him for Keenum. The only thing that would change that opinion is if he loses the locker room.
I think the interesting thing to watch is to see if the Browns pick-up his option next year. I don't really follow that part of the game and I might not have this right, but I could see them not doing that.
Maybe someone in the know can educate us on the particulars of that.
I have no idea. I do know rational people don’t tweet at Baker and his wife about his deficiencies.
Twitter is a cesspool of idiots. Weak minded people who found a place to trash people where there is no consequence. It is destroying society and dividing people on every topic. Much of what is reported in the news is coming from this cesspool. People make stuff up and once it is repeated enough, it is believed as fact. People are ruining others lives by posting false crap about them.
I remember when tweets were not allowed on this board because they were not reliable to be factual. Now they are used as facts, even when they are not true. What is sad is that people who use twitter think that it is representative of the whole population, when in reality, it is just a small sliver of the population.
That was really harsh. But again, former NFL players are saying that Baker is not a good qb and are talking about how it's going to be a problem for those in the locker room.
I'm so sick of it. I get that evaluating collegiate QBs is like picking straws out of a hat because the games are so different, but you would think that the Browns would get lucky just one freaking time.
I think one issue is that this is Baker's 3rd offense in 3 years. As a Qb learns an offense and it becomes 2nd nature to him, he'll know much more quickly where his read is. Do I have to see what the safety is doing or the Lb?
Think about learning a foreign language. You can be pretty good at it, then you find yourself in a loud bar with a bunch of native speakers talking really fast and you can't keep up. But as you learn the language better and become fluent you can.
What am I saying? Baker can get better with his reads as he learns the offense better What I am not saying is that he will. With the language analogy, some people just never become fluent. So I think that we should give Baker the season before we judge him too harshly.
Don't blame the clown for acting like a clown. Ask yourself why you keep going to the circus.
I think one issue is that this is Baker's 3rd offense in 3 years. As a Qb learns an offense and it becomes 2nd nature to him, he'll know much more quickly where his read is. Do I have to see what the safety is doing or the Lb?
This is not true. Reading coverages is reading coverages.
I think one issue is that this is Baker's 3rd offense in 3 years. As a Qb learns an offense and it becomes 2nd nature to him, he'll know much more quickly where his read is. Do I have to see what the safety is doing or the Lb?
This is not true. Reading coverages is reading coverages.
Agree to disagree
Don't blame the clown for acting like a clown. Ask yourself why you keep going to the circus.
You've tried to explain this a couple times, but I still just can't wrap my brain around how getting other things nailed down WON'T help you read coverages during the play. I would think that having to think about your footwork and other QB technique you're working on plus still getting familiar with your receivers would eat up a bunch of that finite brain processing power. Only by getting those extra things down so that they're muscle memory can a QB fully utilize their brain for reading coverages and quickly reacting during a play.
Last edited by oobernoober; 10/21/2009:01 PM. Reason: re-worded first sentence
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
Think about driving your car. When you started at age 16 your were completely reactive in your driving. A car cuts you off and you have to brake harder than what is comfortable.
Fast forward 10-15 years. You have so much more experience on the road. You see the way a car is driving and you can just tell that they are going to change lanes right in front of you without signaling, without looking. So you slow down. Now when they cut over as you can now predict, you barely have to brake.
Don't blame the clown for acting like a clown. Ask yourself why you keep going to the circus.
I don't think Baker is good, but I would not bench him for Keenum. The only thing that would change that opinion is if he loses the locker room.
I think the interesting thing to watch is to see if the Browns pick-up his option next year. I don't really follow that part of the game and I might not have this right, but I could see them not doing that.
Maybe someone in the know can educate us on the particulars of that.
They'll pick up his 5th year option after this season. It's only guaranteed if Baker is injured or he is still on the roster at the beginning of the league year of that fifth year.
It would be a complete distraction all next year if they did not. Especially, considering the likelihood the Browns make the playoffs. We know Baker can beat the bad and mediocre teams. The schedule is littered w/ such teams.
What I expect them not to do, is offer him the big contract extension even if we do make the playoffs.
That was really harsh. But again, former NFL players are saying that Baker is not a good qb and are talking about how it's going to be a problem for those in the locker room.
I'm so sick of it. I get that evaluating collegiate QBs is like picking straws out of a hat because the games are so different, but you would think that the Browns would get lucky just one freaking time.
I haven't watched this specific video, but Marcus Wiley, much like Cowherd, has a vested interest in Baker failing. They don't like him personally, and have trashed him consistently over the years. This outcome of Baker sucking validates them. They are going to beat this drum until there is no more mileage to get out of it.
Sadly, Baker could have put them in their place with his play.
Especially, considering the likelihood the Browns make the playoffs.
Hot take - we don't make the playoffs this year.
I don't know if we will or not, but don't forget the expanded playoffs this year. In a typical year probably not. But with the extra (is it 1) team per conference, we might.
Don't blame the clown for acting like a clown. Ask yourself why you keep going to the circus.
Just a general comment...I think there is a lot of validity to giving Baker more time. I even beat that drum before the beginning of the season. I said no matter what, don't turn on him. I think I had one caveat and that was all play was acceptable minus the wheels completely falling off...which brings me to this next point...
I get the feeling that people on this board either don't watch all Browns games or if they do, don't watch much football beyond the Browns. I watch nearly every game every weekend...and I can confidently say that the wheels are falling off. It's hard to put into words how bad Baker is, but it's really, really bad.
It's the kind of bad that you don't come back from. It's Trubisky bad. For those who do watch a lot of football and are familiar with Trubisky, they are basically the same player. And Trubisky is less than a year away from never being a starter again.
I hope he proves me wrong and can turn it around, but if that is even remotely possible it won't be with the Browns. It will be on another team after a couple years of sitting if he can use that time to get his brain unscrambled.
It's uber important that Berry and company have some type of plan because this team has too much talent to not get competent QB play over the next few years.
That was really harsh. But again, former NFL players are saying that Baker is not a good qb and are talking about how it's going to be a problem for those in the locker room.
I'm so sick of it. I get that evaluating collegiate QBs is like picking straws out of a hat because the games are so different, but you would think that the Browns would get lucky just one freaking time.
I haven't watched this specific video, but Marcus Wiley, much like Cowherd, has a vested interest in Baker failing. They don't like him personally, and have trashed him consistently over the years. This outcome of Baker sucking validates them. They are going to beat this drum until there is no more mileage to get out of it.
Sadly, Baker could have put them in their place with his play.
I don't think Baker is good, but I would not bench him for Keenum. The only thing that would change that opinion is if he loses the locker room.
I think the interesting thing to watch is to see if the Browns pick-up his option next year. I don't really follow that part of the game and I might not have this right, but I could see them not doing that.
Maybe someone in the know can educate us on the particulars of that.
They'll pick up his 5th year option after this season. It's only guaranteed if Baker is injured or he is still on the roster at the beginning of the league year of that fifth year.
It would be a complete distraction all next year if they did not. Especially, considering the likelihood the Browns make the playoffs. We know Baker can beat the bad and mediocre teams. The schedule is littered w/ such teams.
What I expect them not to do, is offer him the big contract extension even if we do make the playoffs.
You've tried to explain this a couple times, but I still just can't wrap my brain around how getting other things nailed down WON'T help you read coverages during the play. I would think that having to think about your footwork and other QB technique you're working on plus still getting familiar with your receivers would eat up a bunch of that finite brain processing power. Only by getting those extra things down so that they're muscle memory can a QB fully utilize their brain for reading coverages and quickly reacting during a play.
I started to get snarky and say you can believe football experts like Jester, device, and 888 or believe me.............but I won't go there. LOL........even though I just did.
Serious answer. Reading coverages is based off of what the defense is doing. You make pre-snap and post-snap reads. I'm not sure how much more clear Orlovsky's breakdown of Baker's pick six could be, but if you are legit in wanting me to try and explain more...........I will.
If this is just about defending Baker..........then you can side w/guys like Jester, 888, eotab, and device. And I have no problem w/that. We are all entitled to our opinions. Let me know if you want o be educated or if you are just debating me.
Especially, considering the likelihood the Browns make the playoffs.
Hot take - we don't make the playoffs this year.
I don't know if we will or not, but don't forget the expanded playoffs this year. In a typical year probably not. But with the extra (is it 1) team per conference, we might.
I think we stand a great chance of being victims of one of the NFL's poison pills because of the strength of our division.
Originally Posted By: NFL RULEBOOK
Three or More Clubs (Note: If two clubs remain tied after third or other clubs are eliminated, tie breaker reverts to step 1 of applicable two-club format.)
Apply division tie breaker to eliminate all but the highest ranked club in each division prior to proceeding to step 2. The original seeding within a division upon application of the division tie breaker remains the same for all subsequent applications of the procedure that are necessary to identify the three Wild-Card participants.
This is where beating teams like the Colts and hopefully the Raiders will be significant in tiebreaks. Owning the head-to-head win in the event of a tied record is huge (obviously).
I play ice hockey. I've played since grade school, but I was always a goalie. When I finished school and started playing mens league, I started skating out (as a forward, defenseman... not a goalie). As a goalie, you stay in your crease and stop pucks... but when you skate out, you're skating and handling the puck and passing, shooting, etc.
Playing as long as I did, I was a very good skater. It took a couple games to get used to skating in not-goalie skates, but that was fine. I was one of the fastest skaters on my team, and probably the fastest defensemen in my particular mens league. I was also pretty decent with the puck on my stick. My buddies and I would goof around in shoes passing the puck back and forth.
Then I'd get on the ice in a game, and I'd have to skate, handle the puck, and make plays. I looked like I'd never played before. All of those individual skills that I was good at (at least, when doing them independently) weren't muscle memory yet. I had to think about doing each one, and when I was trying to do all of them simultaneously, it was too much. Even skating, which was my strength, wasn't as automatic as it should've been because I hadn't been doing it that way (skating out versus moving within the crease) for very long.
That's what I think about when I see Baker do stuff like throw it right to the FS.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
This is where beating teams like the Colts and hopefully the Raiders will be significant in tiebreaks. Owning the head-to-head win in the event of a tied record is huge (obviously).
Which is why people need to understand the significance of my ^post^. We could own both tiebreakers you mentioned and miss the playoffs because ties within a division are resolved first - and the loser takes a hike.
I play ice hockey. I've played since grade school, but I was always a goalie. When I finished school and started playing mens league, I started skating out (as a forward, defenseman... not a goalie). As a goalie, you stay in your crease and stop pucks... but when you skate out, you're skating and handling the puck and passing, shooting, etc.
Playing as long as I did, I was a very good skater. It took a couple games to get used to skating in not-goalie skates, but that was fine. I was one of the fastest skaters on my team, and probably the fastest defensemen in my particular mens league. I was also pretty decent with the puck on my stick. My buddies and I would goof around in shoes passing the puck back and forth.
Then I'd get on the ice in a game, and I'd have to skate, handle the puck, and make plays. I looked like I'd never played before. All of those individual skills that I was good at (at least, when doing them independently) weren't muscle memory yet. I had to think about doing each one, and when I was trying to do all of them simultaneously, it was too much. Even skating, which was my strength, wasn't as automatic as it should've been because I hadn't been doing it that way (skating out versus moving within the crease) for very long.
That's what I think about when I see Baker do stuff like throw it right to the FS.
That's an interesting analogy, especially from my vantage point - a guy who can't even look at ice without slipping.
I do have to imagine that there will be a lot of safety movement in our next few games, post-snap. It's an area where Baker has really struggled. He threw the INT to Fitzpatrick when he moved from his cover two spot into the box after the snap.
He also threw an INT against the Bengals when the safety (can't remember his name) did the opposite, and that was all pre-snap, so it should have been easier to notice.
I do suppose one could make the argument that Baker is not as familiar in this new offense and needs to devote more focus on his receivers and where they are going, versus the defender and where they are going. However, defenses are going to disguise their coverage and move DBs around in hopes of removing his primary read because it greatly increases the chances of him throwing an INT. If he wants to keep them honest, he will need to identify this. It could come down to how he scans the field, but I have to say that it concerns me that we haven't seen much progress on this front.
That's not to say I'm writing him off or don't think he should be the starter or given the chance. I'm just very anxious about his development in this area.
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
Hey 05, knowing the offense isn't related to reading pre and post-snap coverages. The issues created by having a new O are in regards to timing and anticipation. Reading coverages is completely different. Also, I don't think the concerns about the newness is even relevant at this point in the season. Hell, we've seen this offense execute crisply many times. The problems always come when Baker isn't reading defenses, whether it be pre or post-snap.
I've mentioned this a couple of times, but it doesn't seem to be getting much run. Expect teams to start blitzing us a lot because Baker is doing a poor job of recognizing and defeating the blitz. This is a copy-cat league and Pittsburgh exposed yet another weakness. Look for the OL to receive the brunt of the blame.
I would expect teams to TRY to replicate what Pittsburgh did, but not all of them have the horses to do so. Teams can try to do that, but won't be able to contain the run game.
Taking that and looking ahead, we end up being a team that looks fantastic against bad-mediocre teams, but then struggles mightily when we have to face someone tougher (like most of our division).
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
Also, I don't think the concerns about the newness is even relevant at this point in the season. Hell, we've seen this offense execute crisply many times.
I think this is one of those things that sounds really simple/obvious, but needs to be said. We've been arguing the whole new offense thing, but in terms of this season, the longer we go the lesser this argument is relevant.
Guess I just wanted to say I had to read that in order to realize it.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
Hey 05, knowing the offense isn't related to reading pre and post-snap coverages. The issues created by having a new O are in regards to timing and anticipation. Reading coverages is completely different. Also, I don't think the concerns about the newness is even relevant at this point in the season. Hell, we've seen this offense execute crisply many times. The problems always come when Baker isn't reading defenses, whether it be pre or post-snap.
I've mentioned this a couple of times, but it doesn't seem to be getting much run. Expect teams to start blitzing us a lot because Baker is doing a poor job of recognizing and defeating the blitz. This is a copy-cat league and Pittsburgh exposed yet another weakness. Look for the OL to receive the brunt of the blame.
Hey Vers, I agree with you. I was trying to frame it in a way where I tried to identify the logic I think others were using when they were making assertions about the offense affecting Baker's motions in reading the field, but I didn't communicate that clearly. Him trying to watch how the routes develop and where the receivers are going was the only remotely tangible way I could see the new offense affecting Baker not appropriately reading coverage, but to call it a stretch would be an understatement.
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
I wasn't chastising you, but instead, simply using your commentary as a vehicle to try and clarify my position on all of this. I think both you and oober are two of the most open-minded and fair posters on the entire board. Just conversating, bro.
I started to get snarky and say you can believe football experts like Jester, device, and 888 or believe me.............but I won't go there. LOL........even though I just did.
Yeah - so this isn't about just scoring points and winning an argument? Yeah - you never get personal. LOL You like to mix enough football talk in so you can keep framing your agenda and try to needle people - or simply be an outright hypocrite. Same old same old.
Maybe explain what the different FOOTBALL TAKE on Baker you have as an "Expert" than the "POSTERS" you mentioned? Because from my memory each poster you mentioned in your post have ALL acknowledged Baker's struggles. But instead of fixating on them and gnawing on them EVERY chance like a dog with a bone - or a poster who despises Baker The Person ... we've also talked about other elements that impact Baker. smh.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
I think Baker has done a much, much better job of staying focused on himself and the team rather than getting into talking about others or allowing the media to rile him up.
The other day, Mary Kay asked Baker about all the criticism he has been facing and she brought up Stephan A. Smith's tirades. In the past, Baker would have taken the bait and lashed out. Instead, he said:
Quote:
"I don’t give a damn what they say,'' he said. “It’s within this building. We know we can do better. I know I can do better. That’s how it is going to be handled. The outside noise doesn’t matter. They get paid to talk. We get paid to do our work. That is how it is going to be handled.”
I think he has been displaying a growth in maturity and focus this year. I respect that and it gives me more of a reason to hope he gets it on the field, too.
