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Haslam has run the organization like a microwave cook.
That's a brilliant and accurate analogy. Sad but oh so true.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
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He makes a really good point about the Dline. Garrett is getting double and triple teamed, and your other guys can't win much less dominate against backups (guys that couldn't beat out some pretty poor starters).
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
-PrplPplEater
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You know my love will Not Fade Away.........
#gmSTRONG
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Vers,
I think some of the problem here is that (and I'll paraphrase Gen. Patton) "we are two peoples separated by a common language". I feel like on DT so often we all use the same words when it comes to player expectations/evaluations, but we tend to have different definitions of those words.
All season you've rightly pointed out that Baker needs to show that he can put a game on his shoulders and be clutch. You've clearly praised him for being clutch in this last game, but you are hesitant to describe it as a game where he put it on his shoulders.
If that is your position, what would a game where he does put it on his shoulders look like to you? I'm not asking because I want to tell you that you are wrong about anything, I'm just really curious to know how you would define it to better understand your position.
I would concede that the Oline playing as well as it should be expected to clearly helped. But past that, there was way more that could have gone wrong that didn't:
-If DPJ played like a 6th Rd WR
-If Bryant played like a 4th Rd project
-If Njoku decided to remind everyone why people call him inconsistent
-If Higgins played a game that made it obvious as to why he's seen so little of the field
--then Baker wouldn't have had the game he did, we lose, and we're again speculating for yet another week whether or not Baker can put a game on his shoulders and be clutch.
"Hey, I'm a reasonable guy. But I've just experienced some very unreasonable things."
-Jack Burton
-It looks like the Harvard Boys know what they are doing after all.
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Fair post. I'll reply to this part. All season you've rightly pointed out that Baker needs to show that he can put a game on his shoulders and be clutch. You've clearly praised him for being clutch in this last game, but you are hesitant to describe it as a game where he put it on his shoulders.
If that is your position, what would a game where he does put it on his shoulders look like to you? I'm not asking because I want to tell you that you are wrong about anything, I'm just really curious to know how you would define it to better understand your position. You are asking a former coach and player. So, keep that in mind when I answer. I don't think one player wins or loses the game. I never once argued w/those that said "this was a team loss." There are too many moving parts to make a claim either way. I think Baker was part of the reason for our losses. And I think he was part of the reason as to why we have won games. I praised Baker far more for Sunday's victory than anyone else o the team. I really was impressed that he came through in the clutch. However, I recognize that Stef did a good job of managing the clock, the OL blocked very well except for one play, and receivers made excellent catches and even got some separation. It's a team win just like it is a team loss. I only brought it up because I have read on here from multiple posters that Baker put the team on his shoulders after the Colts game and Bengals game, while reading how it was a team loss when we lost to Baltimore in Pittsburgh. That seems inconsistent to me. I'll sum up by saying that Baker was a huge reason why we won on Sunday, but it was still a team win. I will also say that Baker was part of the reason we lost to Baltimore and Pittsburgh, but they were definitely team losses. I do appreciate you taking the time to ask me to explain my position. I prefer that then you, and others, just allowing a few select posters to speak for me. Stay safe out there, bro. I'm still praying for you and your colleagues.
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I hope nobody said Baker put the team on his back for the Colts win. His second half was NOT brag-worthy.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
-PrplPplEater
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Fair post. I'll reply to this part. All season you've rightly pointed out that Baker needs to show that he can put a game on his shoulders and be clutch. You've clearly praised him for being clutch in this last game, but you are hesitant to describe it as a game where he put it on his shoulders.
If that is your position, what would a game where he does put it on his shoulders look like to you? I'm not asking because I want to tell you that you are wrong about anything, I'm just really curious to know how you would define it to better understand your position. You are asking a former coach and player. So, keep that in mind when I answer. I don't think one player wins or loses the game. I never once argued w/those that said "this was a team loss." There are too many moving parts to make a claim either way. I think Baker was part of the reason for our losses. And I think he was part of the reason as to why we have won games. I praised Baker far more for Sunday's victory than anyone else o the team. I really was impressed that he came through in the clutch. However, I recognize that Stef did a good job of managing the clock, the OL blocked very well except for one play, and receivers made excellent catches and even got some separation. It's a team win just like it is a team loss. I only brought it up because I have read on here from multiple posters that Baker put the team on his shoulders after the Colts game and Bengals game, while reading how it was a team loss when we lost to Baltimore in Pittsburgh. That seems inconsistent to me. I'll sum up by saying that Baker was a huge reason why we won on Sunday, but it was still a team win. I will also say that Baker was part of the reason we lost to Baltimore and Pittsburgh, but they were definitely team losses. I do appreciate you taking the time to ask me to explain my position. I prefer that then you, and others, just allowing a few select posters to speak for me. Stay safe out there, bro. I'm still praying for you and your colleagues. Thank you for your support. I don't know if its worse on the streets or what's been going on behind the scenes at the station, but I think we're in for a bumpier ride. I get what you are saying about the losses. The more I think about it, I don't think its a totally unfair critique. In games like those you hope somebody is going to step up and make a play that sparks the comeback. That could be Landry making a tough couple of catches... Chubb ripping off a 45yrd TD... a key turnover. Those are things you hope will happen. I would concede that your QB is different. I don't think its enough to hope your QB can give you a spark, I think its their responsibility to. Well, at least to try. I think 2 things can be true at once: I think it can be a team win, but also be a game in which your QB put it on his shoulders. Baker made some A+ throws and the guys he threw to made some great plays. Given who the guys were making those receptions, IMO it would not be inappropriate to credit Baker with elevating the guys around him. In the end he now needs to show this game wasn't a fluke.
"Hey, I'm a reasonable guy. But I've just experienced some very unreasonable things."
-Jack Burton
-It looks like the Harvard Boys know what they are doing after all.
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I don't believe anyone did. Consider the source.
Congrats to Baker. Well deserved.
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This was a surprise, but good for him and his confidence. So much better after OBJ wasn't a priority. Odell has been slow to get turned around on a few routes. But BM had a string of catches, record string!
let's do it again soon!
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
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HERE WE GO BROWNIES! HERE WE GO!!
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Obviously, being good in the RZ is good.
How do we glean any further understanding from that? RZ plays feature a compressed field, which I understand doesn't play to Baker's coverage-reading ability. Are RZ plays more bang-bang, and tend to be more single-read passing plays? Are teams more worried about our RBs inside the 20?
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
-PrplPplEater
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Obviously, being good in the RZ is good.
How do we glean any further understanding from that? RZ plays feature a compressed field, which I understand doesn't play to Baker's coverage-reading ability. Are RZ plays more bang-bang, and tend to be more single-read passing plays? Are teams more worried about our RBs inside the 20? MIP if you ask me
Blocking those who argue to argue, eliminates the argument.
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Which is crazy because last year we were SO BAD in the red zone
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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Obviously, being good in the RZ is good.
How do we glean any further understanding from that? RZ plays feature a compressed field, which I understand doesn't play to Baker's coverage-reading ability. Are RZ plays more bang-bang, and tend to be more single-read passing plays? Are teams more worried about our RBs inside the 20? I think teams are legitimately worried about our RB's from at least the 20. Chubb especially has shown a knack for finding the endzone or coming pretty daggone close to hittin pay dirt whenever he touches the ball within the 20. I have to wonder though, given how productive Baker has been with this 1 read stuff... I'm having a harder time being too critical of it. If he were just hitting these 3-4 yrd passes, ok then. But he's not. He's efficient he's in control, he's making plays, he's hitting all the passes we want him to, he's scoring TDs. I know its not a blueprint for long term success, but I think it forces a serious question: Should we stop expecting him to be more cerebral and instead give him the space to be a gunslinger? Don't get me wrong, there's plenty for him to work on in terms of the skill side of things, I think he's plenty smart enough. But personality is a part of his game too. If you don't give the guy enough room for his personality to show, everything else becomes moot or even counter productive because he'll never be comfortable in any system if Baker doesn't feel like he's allowed to be... well, Baker. I don't know. Its just something I've been mulling for a few weeks because while his effort is noticeable, he's always looked like he's playing tight, not as confident as we've seen him, and not having much fun.
"Hey, I'm a reasonable guy. But I've just experienced some very unreasonable things."
-Jack Burton
-It looks like the Harvard Boys know what they are doing after all.
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Welcome on board. Funny as hell re: the name story.
SaintDawg™
Football, baseball, basketball, wine, women, walleye
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Smh
Baker was terrible last year. Lamar Jackson won the MVP. That’s it. That’s the answer.
(Also, what is the face of the league even?)
Stuff like this is purposely stupid and then people fall for it.
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If anyone is the face of the league, Mahomes is the face of the league.
Like you said, Lamar won the MVP last year because his team won big during the regular season and the Browns sucked.
This year, Lamar is not getting much love. His passing numbers are down and people are criticizing him for it. Baker just was named Player of the Week because he had an excellent game. He was previously criticized because he was not playing very well and he played awful against the top two teams in the division.
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There's a point here people will miss.
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There's a point here people will miss. That any yahoo can fire up twitter and post cherry-picked stats.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
-PrplPplEater
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There's a player on the Browns roster that has a 156 passer rating, 75% completion %, and scores on 25% of his throws... bUt He'S nOt EvEn CoNsIdErEd FoR Qb1!!!!!!!1!!!!!21!
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
-PrplPplEater
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There's a point here people will miss. I didn’t miss it, it’s just irrelevant to the argument that’s being made. (Jackson’s yards include his rushing yards.)
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and include Rushing TDs. His numbers are totally inflated here to compare them to what Baker has done.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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I didn’t miss it, it’s just irrelevant to the argument that’s being made.
(Jackson’s yards include his rushing yards.) I don't know if a big point or argument is being made. I don't think the twitter post is being used as anything more than a highlighter pen to highlight something that might be worth remembering or at least not forgetting. It's a bit like when people - amidst the talk about how badly Baker was playing and how many shortcomings he has - say, hey, let's not forget we are 5-2. No one is saying that because we are 5-2 Baker doesn't need to improve. It's like a - hey maybe the sky isn't falling as badly as some posters are talking about. Nothing more, nothing less. Just how I read it.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
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I'd be inclined to agree with you if it weren't for the last line in the tweet.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
-PrplPplEater
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I'd be inclined to agree with you if it weren't for the last line in the tweet. Bingo.
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and include Rushing TDs. His numbers are totally inflated here to compare them to what Baker has done. Just adding: What do you think would have been the likelihood of Lamar playing the kind of 2nd half game that was required of Baker?
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Um, they are not "cherry-picked." That's all of them.
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That's all of what? It absolutely is cherry-picked. It's Total yards, Average completion %, and total TDs and INTs.
It doesn't say anything about how both are completely different QBs (in terms of style). Doesn't say anything about the teams around either and how far along in development they are. It doesn't show how bad Baker looked when he faced Balt and Pitt (also doesn't show how Lamar was when they faced KC). To be honest, those stats really don't show anything of value.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
-PrplPplEater
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I think more of this is being made than it needs to be made - but I think the Lamar yards include all of his runs too. So in one way the stats do include a *portion* of the impact Lamar's running game and style etc has.
Bottom line is the story isn't written or finished on EITHER QB.
But the last line of the tweet ? I've never heard of the dude who tweeted. I don't value his opinion - but what I think he's referring to is that 2 weeks ago one QB was roundly being condemned across many media platforms as a bust, a guy who can't handle pressure, can't read a D .... etc .... the other isn't.
Meh - maybe it's all semantics. To be honest, as I said, I don't care what the twitter guy posted. Likewise I don't care what Cowherd or other chock jocks say - or most of the talking heads whether they played or not. Baker pre week 7 wasn't a finished product and wasn't a bum. Baker post week 7 isn't a finished product and isn't a HOF'er. He had a really good game. Next we need to beat the Raiders and Baker needs to keep improving and eliminate the dumb plays!
Last edited by mgh888; 10/29/20 02:58 PM.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
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One guy was being lambasted because he was terrible last year and hasn’t been good this year and the other won the MVP award.
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it would be pretty dope if Lamar managed to finish his 7th game with (-52) yards, 3 TD's and 4 picks, though.
People ask me what I do in spring when there's no football. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for fall
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and include Rushing TDs. His numbers are totally inflated here to compare them to what Baker has done. Just adding: What do you think would have been the likelihood of Lamar playing the kind of 2nd half game that was required of Baker? To be fair, before last weekend, I would have thought Lamar more likely at this point to have a day like that than Baker. That said, I will say this: In 2010, I felt very early in that first half of the season that Derek Anderson was Fool's Gold. I regularly called him as much; it was very clear very early to me that he was far more a product of his receivers bailing him out than anything else. While Baker asks a LOT of his receivers at times in terms of making some crazy catches, I do not feel the same way about Baker. I think he still has plenty of room to grow and improve, and I think we will see that more and more as the season progresses (and I have zero doubts we will see moments of regression as well), but I think that he is the real deal for us. I think this offense is the real deal. Our defense, however, is more like cheap brass that gets hastily polished at times; not even fool's gold, lol
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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He's shown the capability (potential) of doing all the the things people who criticize say he has to be able to do in order to keep from being replaced. He's just so dang inconsistent. Even things like accuracy and ball placement can vary widely from game to game (and within a game, as we saw in Cinci).
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
-PrplPplEater
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Sorry - I don't see Lamar ever making 22 completitions in a row. I see him being a stud and carrying his team and making extraordinary plays and doing things Baker could never do to extend plays and make plays outside the pocket ... do not see him making 22 straight completitions. jmo.
I agree 100% on Anderson. Talk about a one read QB? I *felt* like Anderson decided where the ball was going pre-snap and it didn't matter what unfolded, he was throwing it to that read.
As for Baker being inconsistent. I think we all see it, clearly he has had some struggles, and he especially struggles at the moment when there is pressure. The good news is when he's good he's been very good so far... and to be fair in terms of interceptions and not-smart plays, the new coaching and 2020 Baker has shown improvement. It's a process. I've seen enough to be encouraged.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
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The "book" on Lamar is to keep him in the pocket and - if at all possible - stay ahead of the Ravens on the scoreboard. (Tough to do with their defense.)
If the goal is to keep a QB in the pocket, that suggests that team WANT him to throw it. All the accolades early this year about how he's changed/improved his throwing prowess were wildly exaggerated. When they can't have him running it, he's very average or even below average.
Amazing talent...not amazing QB. JMO
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Definitely a different breed of QB, but almost all the QB's that have had early success have a clear mobility advantage (and not just the "he can move in the pocket" stuff).
Mobile:
Mahommes
Watson
Allen
Jackson
Murray
Not so mobile:
Trubisky
Mayfield
Darnold
Rosen
Jones
Haskins
Jackson just takes the mobility factor up about 12 notches. Hopefully, the less-mobile guys will still develop over time.
People ask me what I do in spring when there's no football. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for fall
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j/c:
I wonder who NFL GMs would prefer as their qb if they had a choice of Baker and Lamar? I wonder what the players around the league think?
I have a hunch it is very different than what some on this board think.
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