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I don’t understand what that has to do with anything. I know EXACTLY what it has to do with.  Always with the classy - non-mocking football takes that you preach all the time to others about. Nice. Another post of mine that you didn't reply to! LOL. So transparent.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
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You would have to consider a couple of things. How many points were the Ravens averaging before Lamar? See, if you can't score points and your D is playing well, most certainly an improvement at the QB position makes a huge difference. So how many points was the defense giving up at the time?
If your defense is giving up less than 20 points a game and you're still losing, you need help on the O. That doesn't mean if you start winning you have a great QB. It means you have one who is good enough to put up enough points to help your defense.
It's a team sport. Actually, if you wish to look at it, we've been giving up almost 30 points a game and are still winning. I don't think you can say that about the 2018 Ravens.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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I took a closer look at the Ravens because the narrative around here is that Lamar walked into such a great circumstance and that he had great coaches while Baker did not.
The Ravens were 8 and 8 in 2016. They went 9 and 7 in 2017. There was talk that the Ravens were not going to keep Harbaugh. Some wanted him to come here on this board and others did not. Diam really wanted. Others did not like him at all.
So, the Ravens start 4 and 5 and Lamar is inserted and they finish 6 and 1 and make the playoffs. They go 13 and 3 the following year and win the division. They did not change coaches to improve so much. They did not significantly overhaul and improve the roster like the Browns did in the last couple of years. I don't think the argument that downplays Lamar's contributions is fair.
Just my opinion. Just sticking to stats: https://www.footballdb.com/stats/teamsta...oup=D&conf=2018 - Number 1 defense in the NFL = Ravens. Giving up less than 18 points a game. 
The more things change the more they stay the same.
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I'm saying that if we are going to dismiss the Pre and Post Browns win record with and without Baker . . . regardless of how good or bad previous QB's were, it seems inconsistent at best and more like a double standard to then use the Pre & Post Ravens w/l record with and without Lamar. Ravens were a much better team overall - and the comparison at QB was to an aging Flacco who has struggled for several years and can't beat out Darnold who is playing fairly poorly. . . I don't think it's a good barometer for either QB's ability.
But it all occurred in the same 2018 season....so that’s where I have to disagree with you. I’m not comparing the 2017 ravens season or the 2017 browns season. I’m just going on 2018 til now and what has happened. Offensive efficiency skyrocketed with lamar under center. People have to remember that *part* of the reason the ravens defense was so good was that they weren’t on the field that long. The ravens would use a half of a quarter for one freaking drive. With an offense like that, you don’t need to score 30 a game. And it allows your defense to play with much more discipline.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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Maybe ... Or maybe you could argue turning around a culture of losing and a team that went 1-31 over two years is a bigger accomplishment while dealing with HC changes and everything else that was 'Browns' pre-Baker and imminently after his arrival. I don't know - it really doesn't seem that important to me. I disagree that dismissing one set of W/L while embracing the other is really that impartial. If Baker had been kept out for longer and we'd lost more game with Tyrod at QB - and then Baker came in and turned the team around and you did the 1/l analysis over a single year - it wouldn't have made Baker's initial impact more impressive in my eyes. For Lamar and his impact after he was introduced ... it's dramatic and you can see the offensive stats per game. . . https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/rav/2018.htmPassing yards went down dramatically from *about* (eyeballing) 250 per game to *about* 160 per game. So Lamar did it all with his feet. No-one could stop him. Yes he made a huge difference that year. He made significant improvement in his passing game year 2. He's doing okay this year. I've never hated on Lamar as an elite talent - he and Josh Allen improved their passing accuracy more than I expected but I still think the sample size is small. I think Lamar is special with or without the great accuracy passing he showed last year.... Josh Allen I am still highly skeptical of how accurate he can be.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
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Are there really people who would take Baker over Lamar Jackson?
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Are there really people who would take Baker over Lamar Jackson?
Take away Jacksons running ability absolutely I take Baker ...
John 3:16 Jesus said "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."
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But you can't do that.... Lamar HAS that added dimension to his game. It's who he is.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
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But you can't do that.... Lamar HAS that added dimension to his game. It's who he is. Even so when it comes to being a Better "Quarterback" I would take Baker all day, ... JMHO
John 3:16 Jesus said "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."
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Are there really people who would take Baker over Lamar Jackson?
Take away Jacksons running ability absolutely I take Baker ... LOL
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But you can't do that.... Lamar HAS that added dimension to his game. It's who he is. Even so when it comes to being a Better "Quarterback" I would take Baker all day, ... JMHO LOL
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This is an important year.
Would Mahomes have done what he has if he went to another team?
Quarterbacks are a part of an offensive scheme. Reid is a great offensive coach. Mahomes landed in a perfect spot. He was brought up in one offense.
That has meaning.
Lamer got baked into the Raven offense. To his credit he has made the most of it.
Baker needs to develop inside this offense. He is seven games in. Honestly I do not see the rush to judgement.
Let's see how this year goes.
If he remains the quarterback. Next year will be the first time he would begin a season in the same system under the same staff.
As much as that may be dismissed or minimized it is relevant.
Reading between the lines of what KS and Van Pelt have stated in press conferences. I think they like Baker.
I have no crystal ball. I just hope he is successful because that means the team is as well. My solo interest is winning.
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I have to wonder what lamar would do with the talent we have on this team.
Something tells me at the minimum, we’d have a wildcard appearance last year, simply due to his rushing.
The thing both baker and lamar do a lot is throw medicine balls. They love getting their receivers killed. I don't thing the Browns would have made the playoffs with Brett Farve (or insert name) at QB last year. Kitchens appears to have been the problem.
There will be no playoffs. Can’t play with who we have out there and compounding it with garbage playcalling and worse execution. We don’t have good skill players on offense period. Browns 20 - Bears 17.
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But you can't do that.... Lamar HAS that added dimension to his game. It's who he is. Even so when it comes to being a Better "Quarterback" I would take Baker all day, ... JMHO LOL Laugh all you want Jackson is a RB not a QB he just went to the right team that has covered his shortcomings ...
Last edited by PastorMarc; 10/31/20 06:28 PM.
John 3:16 Jesus said "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."
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Are there really people who would take Baker over Lamar Jackson?
Yes...and over Rosen, Darnold, Deshaun Watson, Josh Allen & Carson Wentz...to name a few.
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Are there really people who would take Baker over Lamar Jackson?
Yes...and over Rosen, Darnold, Deshaun Watson, Josh Allen & Carson Wentz...to name a few. Smh
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I’m a newbie from Scandinavia and forgive my ignorance but why is it so important to judge who’s better or worse? Different skill sets and totally different circumstances.
Baker has done a phenomenal job surviving in such turbulent environment. If other QBs has better stats or more wins is irrelevant. They didn’t do it with the Cleveland Browns.
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Are there really people who would take Baker over Lamar Jackson?
Take away Jacksons running ability absolutely I take Baker ... I would take Baker over Mahomes if we took away Mahomes’ arms and sight.
How does a league celebrating its 100th season only recognize the 53 most recent championships?
#gmstrong
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It is not that important, but it is a football message board. There is nothing in football that is "so important" that we have to talk about. However, some folks like to talk about football. A poster brought up a comparison between Lamar and Baker when he asked if we thought Lamar could have done what Baker did against the Bengals. That's fine. The conversation expanded and that is fine, too. I think that some folks, probably including you, don't like when Baker receives some negative attention. That's fine, but again, one of Baker's biggest boosters brought up the topic.
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Plus by the end of the week, last Sunday's game gets talked out. We really don't talk college football much until Saturday and there is only so much to discuss about the upcoming game. So we end up stretching for topics to talk about and we have been looking for a "franchise" Qb for so long that Qb discussions have become our default.
Don't blame the clown for acting like a clown.
Ask yourself why you keep going to the circus.
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I better clarify something. I was not getting on WSU for bringing the comparison up. It is a legit topic and it can be fun to discuss things like this, provided people remain civil.
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Good point. However, you will find over time that this not a "yea team" Board.
It is more of break every player down on performance and PFF grades.
Each player is graded. Then either supported or criticized.
It is not so much that the team is not supported.
It is more that it is done in a cynical way. So much losing over so long a period tends to do that.
This is the first time in so long that the team is over 500. That we don't know how to act.
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Well right now I'm acting happy about it. If it wasn't for a health issue in my family I'd be ecstatic!
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Baker played his ass off this game. receivers completely failed him today.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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So did the line with everything we invested in them we should have had 200 yards.
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Baker played his ass off this game. receivers completely failed him today. I don't feel horrible after this game which is a positive at this point. We play a lot of bad defenses coming up. Baker should get his feet under him.
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6 drives...
4 or 5 offensive penalties (3 by the rookie tackle alone)
4 drops
2 fg's and (with a 3rd missed), and...
a fumble.
A game so boring I'm almost stopped caring who was going to win...almost.
Not sure if I should give Josh Jacobs and the Raiders' O-line too much credit, our defense was pretty shaky.
People ask me what I do in spring when there's no football. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for fall
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Where the hell were our LBs and DBs. Matter of fact our Dline wasn't great either. I'm afraid to look up time of poss and number of drops.
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Where the hell were our LBs and DBs. Matter of fact our Dline wasn't great either. I'm afraid to look up time of poss and number of drops. dont even do it, bro. you're gonna throw up if you do.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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Where the hell were our LBs and DBs. Matter of fact our Dline wasn't great either. I'm afraid to look up time of poss and number of drops. dont even do it, bro. you're gonna throw up if you do. Iknow Berry has to do something and soon.
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As fans, we must be craving more of the same after the bye week. Wasn't a gimme win, and we can explain it away with a bunch of sour-grapes excuses, but we should have been it more. This D is not good and doesn't seem really concerned about it. The LB and secondary work was shameful. And a drive would help. Can't wait for the snappy explanations.
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
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Where the hell were our LBs and DBs. Matter of fact our Dline wasn't great either. I'm afraid to look up time of poss and number of drops. dont even do it, bro. you're gonna throw up if you do. Iknow Berry has to do something and soon. He won't be doing anything until March.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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#gmstrong
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Looks like more of an inflammatory headline than actual substance. This is the problem with editors and writers that have to write catchy headlines to get clicks.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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So, on the ESPN QB ranking, Watson scored 7 points against the Browns who give up an average of 27 points per game and moved UP ONE SPOT. Throwing for 160 yard and no INTS... Mayfield throws for 130 yards and no INTs.. should have scored 17 points and he fell 3 spots in the QB rankings... Oh well.
yebat' Putin
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But you can't do that.... Lamar HAS that added dimension to his game. It's who he is. Even so when it comes to being a Better "Quarterback" I would take Baker all day, ... JMHO LOL Laugh all you want Jackson is a RB not a QB he just went to the right team that has covered his shortcomings ... More teams will take Baker over Lamar than some think. It is definitely not unanimous that 32 teams would take Lamar over Baker today. The reasons why Baker was drafted #1 are the same reasons why someone would still take Baker over Lamar. I mean, you may think those GMs are wrong, but that's ok and a different story.
Last edited by devicedawg; 11/19/20 07:39 AM.
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Browns offensive line gave Baker Mayfield more time to throw than any other QB got in Week 11 https://brownswire.usatoday.com/2020/11/...got-in-week-11/Baker Mayfield didn’t exactly light up the stat sheet in Sunday’s win over the Philadelphia Eagles. But Mayfield attacked the Eagles pass defense effectively, and he got some help from his offensive line and pass protection to make it happen. Mayfield completed just 12 of his 22 pass attempts in the steady rain on Sunday. Those completions netted 204 yards and included downfield strikes to KhaDarel Hodge and Rashard Higgins that set up the Browns offense nicely. Per Next Gen Stats, the Browns gave Baker Mayfield the longest average time to throw of any quarterback in Week 11. Mayfield had 3.56 seconds on average to throw. Some of that comes from play-action fakes and a couple of designed rollouts and downfield throws as well. He was sacked three times by the Eagles. Mayfield also had the best “air yards to the sticks” of Week 11. That means the Browns threw the ball beyond the first down marker on pass attempts better than anyone. Having the time to let those longer routes develop depends a lot on the pass protection, and the Browns passed the test there.
You know my love will Not Fade Away.........
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Mayfield also had the best “air yards to the sticks” of Week 11. That means the Browns threw the ball beyond the first down marker on pass attempts better than anyone. Having the time to let those longer routes develop depends a lot on the pass protection, and the Browns passed the test there.
SWEET LIBERTY! I've been waiting patiently for us to start actually throwing at the sticks on 3rd down. The 2-3 yard tosses on 3rd and long were confirmed, re-confirmed, and re-re-confirmed to NOT work.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
-PrplPplEater
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j/c
The last 3 weeks have been so tough to gauge how Baker is progressing - weather has been brutal. Someone else posted in the Post Game thread, one of the better barometers on how Baker played during this 3 game stint is to simply say that he out performed both Watson and Wentz who are two QB's that many folks who are down on Baker often refer to as being much better than Baker and are referred to as Franchise QB's while trying to insinuate Baker is a bust. . . I am sure that the 3 game bad weather skid decimated Baker's quarterback rating and ranking and I am sure the statistics will be used against him without context by some in the near future. But I still believe we are winning WITH our QB and not "despite" our QB. Just how I see it.
One major trend - I think in many games this season we have seen Baker progressing through his reads ... we've seen him move the safeties with his eyes a few times. Hope it continues.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
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