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#1863372 05/09/21 08:25 AM
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How come the league is not pushing (mandate should be made but I'm sure not a realistic solution) for all coaches and players to get the vaccine. All throughout the NFL

I'm shocked that it isn't an official request to all FO and Players including Refs as well.

jmho


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eotab #1863378 05/09/21 09:46 AM
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NFL informs teams they should offer COVID-19 vaccines to rookies at minicamps
Published: May 05, 2021 at 08:55 PM

https://www.nfl.com/news/nfl-informs-tea...ign=Twitter_atn

With rookie minicamps set to commence shortly, the NFL informed all teams Wednesday night they should offer COVID-19 vaccines to all rookies, NFL Network's Tom Pelissero reported.

In addition to encouraging clubs to offer vaccinations, the league is also aiming for teams to "highlight to all players that vaccinations may help players avoid missed practices and games, and therefore may have a competitive impact for the club," Pelissero added.

It's the latest development in the NFL's ongoing efforts to encourage players and personnel to vaccinate -- along with opening stadiums and sites for the general public to do so, as well.

By May 17, all NFL clubs must transition back to regular-season COVID-19 protocols, which means players, coaches and other Tier 1, 2 and 3 individuals for teams "are prohibited from gathering outside of the club facility."

Other protocols set to start on May 17 or as early as May 14 for teams who begin rookie minicamps then will be a max of 15 players in the weight room, no in-person media interviews for players, no club-organized social gatherings and a max of five tryouts per week for teams.

Like other NFL players, rookies who get vaccinated will be privy to modified COVID-19 protocols, such as weekly testing rather than daily. Players who are not vaccinated will need to be tested daily.


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eotab #1863379 05/09/21 09:47 AM
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No cutting players because they are unvaccinated

https://apnews.com/article/buffalo-bills...m_medium=AP_NFL

An NFL team can’t release a player simply because he is not vaccinated for COVID-19, a person with direct knowledge of the league’s directive told The Associated Press on Friday.

Buffalo Bills general manager Brandon Beane hypothetically suggested this week that he’d do so if it would provide more freedom within the team facilities for meetings and offseason programs.

The person spoke on condition of anonymity because the league did not make the directive public. The NFL currently is formulating further plans and protocols for the offseason programs and training camp.

“A team may not release a player solely due to vaccination status,” the person said.

The league also is allowing vaccinated players to gather and interact with other such players away from club facilities.

The same is true for staff members. But players and staff, including coaches, may not do so at this time, according to an NFL memo obtained by the AP.

Also being considered is allowing teams to stage training camp away from their home facility. Those clubs must submit a fill medical and protocol plan “demonstrate how the club will comply with the NFL-NFLPA COVID-19 protocols at the proposed alternative location (including any hotels and transportation involved).”

A team’s plan will be subject to review and approval by the NFL-NFLPA Joint COVID Medical Committee.

One team that regularly has held a portion of training camp elsewhere is Dallas. In March, owner Jerry Jones looked forward to potentially doing so again.

“We have our plans and I assure you there’s ... a big part of you have to sometimes think, ‘Well times are going to get better,’” he said. “Do I see a more promising economic future for the NFL, maybe than others have seen or said? This tells you all you need to know about what you think about the future of the NFL. This says that loud and clear. Now we’re going to Oxnard, we’re going to have training camp, and we’re going to do it safe. And we’re going to have that stadium full and we’re going to do it safe.”

On Wednesday, Beane’s response was to a question about potentially cutting an unvaccinated player at the lower end of Buffalo’s 53-man roster. It came when the NFL is loosening its restrictions for teams whose staff and players have been fully vaccinated.

“You guys saw it in the fieldhouse, we had three and four meetings going on, and sometimes you’re talking over each other. But it was the only way to pull it off and be social distant,” he said of NFL protocols limiting the number of players who could meet at one time. “So it would be an advantage to cut a player and fall under that umbrella” of less restrictive protocols.

Last year, teams were limited to hosting most meetings via Zoom, with restrictions placed on how many players and coaches could gather at one time. Team officials and players were also required to undergo daily COVID-19 testing and wear masks.

Beane expects those restrictions to be loosened, while noting the rules have yet to be determined.

“I think there’s going to be some incentives. If you have ‘X’ number of percent of your players and staff vaccinated, you can live normal, let’s call it — back to the the old days,” he said.

“If you don’t, it’s going to look more like last year,” Beane added. “But I hope, if those are the rules, that we’ll be able to get enough people to be vaccinated and not have to deal with all the headaches.”

The NFL and NFL Players Association are encouraging, but not mandating players to get vaccinated.


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eotab #1863381 05/09/21 09:53 AM
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I think that the rookies should be vaccinated before minicamp to prevent missed days due to side effects.


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GratefulDawg #1863402 05/09/21 01:58 PM
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if I was a bubble guy id be getting vaccinated just to not give the team any reason to cut me... I know you can't get cut because you're unvaccinated... but if it's close between a guy who is vaccinated and one who is not I could see the guy who isn't getting cut because it allows more freedom in meetings and practices...


<><

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eotab #1863404 05/09/21 02:22 PM
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My thoughts.

Don't allow players to opt out this season. They can get the shots or not, but if they don't they play at their own risk.


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GMdawg #1863407 05/09/21 02:54 PM
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Originally Posted By: GMdawg
My thoughts.

Don't allow players to opt out this season. They can get the shots or not, but if they don't they play at their own risk.



I hadn't even thought of that. My guess is that won't be a option this year.


If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.

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eotab #1863417 05/09/21 06:14 PM
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The vaccine doesn't cure covid.


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eotab #1864268 05/14/21 06:42 PM
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You know my love will Not Fade Away.........


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superbowldogg #1864273 05/14/21 07:21 PM
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Originally Posted By: superbowldogg
The vaccine doesn't cure covid.


No, but it prevents you from getting it and spreading it. It's a simple thing to understand.

Steubenvillian #1864274 05/14/21 07:23 PM
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Incorrect. It doesn't prevent your from getting it, and it doesn't prevent you from spreading it.

The vaccine helps to assure you don't get as sick, or hospitalized.

archbolddawg #1864278 05/14/21 08:49 PM
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Originally Posted By: archbolddawg
Incorrect. It doesn't prevent your from getting it, and it doesn't prevent you from spreading it.

The vaccine helps to assure you don't get as sick, or hospitalized.


This is correct. I know people who have had the vaccine and have gotten covid and had symptoms but they were mild. Chances of being hospitalized are extremely small.




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While it doesn't "stop you from getting Covid", it does greatly reduce your risk of getting Covid.

Quote:
COVID-19 vaccination will help keep you from getting COVID-19

All COVID-19 vaccines currently available in the United States have been shown to be safe and effective at preventing COVID-19. Learn more about the different COVID-19 vaccines.

All COVID-19 vaccines that are in development are being carefully evaluated in clinical trials and will be authorized or approved only if they make it substantially less likely you will get COVID-19. Learn more about how federal partners are ensuring COVID-19 vaccines work.

Based on what we know about vaccines for other diseases and early data from clinical trials, experts believe that getting a COVID-19 vaccine also helps keep you from getting seriously ill even if you do get COVID-19.

Getting vaccinated yourself may also protect people around you, particularly people at increased risk for severe illness from COVID-19.

Experts continue to conduct studies to learn more about how COVID-19 vaccination may reduce spread of the virus that causes COVID-19.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/vaccine-benefits.html?


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eotab #1871873 07/21/21 02:03 PM
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Baker Mayfield indicates he’s been vaccinated since minicamp, and a high rate would give the Browns ‘a competitive advantage’


https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2021/07...-advantage.html


By Mary Kay Cabot, cleveland.com
CLEVELAND, Ohio — Baker Mayfield indicated Wednesday during his youth football camp at Gilmour Academy in Gates Milles, Ohio that he’s fully vaccinated against COVID-19 and that it’s the way to go.

“Obviously last year was new for everybody,’' Mayfield said during a media availability at the camp. “So it was a lot of learning the protocols and whatnot. It definitely poses a competitive advantage for higher vaccine rates on your team just because of the close contact [rules] and what happens if somebody does unfortunately get COVID, what can happen to the rest of the building.

“It’s a competitive advantage but it’s also way more than that. It’s about safety and just general health and well-being of human life. So I’d leave it at that.’'

During minicamp in June, Mayfield was still wearing a mask inside the Browns facility, which suggested he wasn’t yet fully vaccinated yet. But if he had any reservations, he apparently overcame them during his summer break.

Back then, the Browns were in good shape with their vaccination rate, a source told cleveland.com, but hadn’t yet reach the 85% threshold that affords teams relaxed COVID-19 protocols.

As of July 16th, 13 teams had reached the threshold, according to NFL.com, and 73.8 percent of players had at least one shot. Two teams, the Colts and the Washington Football team, were below 50%, NFL.com reported.

Cowboys owner Jerry Jones said Wednesday that only a ‘handful’ of the Cowboys 90-man roster had not been vaccinated, “and a handful is five.’' A number of NFL quarterbacks have expressed some hesitation about being vaccinated or have remained mum on it at some point this offseason, including Sam Darnold, Dak Prescott, Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson.

Several Browns players have had lingering reservations about it for one reason or another, but the Browns are hopeful their numbers will continue to increase by the time training camp begins July 28th.

Last season, they were one of the NFL teams most impacted by pandemic, with Myles Garrett missing two games after testing positive, the starting receiving corps missing the loss to the Jets because of contact tracing, and Kevin Stefanski missing the Wild Card victory over the Steelers after testing positive.

The Browns are hoping to have fewer interruptions this season, and the NFL has heavily incentivized players to get vaccinated even though it’s not mandated for them.

Unvaccinated players must continue to get tested daily, wear masks and physically distance. They can’t eat meals with teammates and can’t leave the team hotel to interact with individuals outside the club. They also aren’t allowed to use the sauna or steam room. The heavy restrictions have resulted in a big jump in the numbers over the past several weeks.


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GratefulDawg #1871890 07/21/21 03:25 PM
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Thank you for posting that. It was a really informative article.

I somehow didn't know the vaccination threshold eased restrictions as much as it did. It's not an exaggeration for Baker to claim competitive advantage.


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GratefulDawg #1871896 07/21/21 05:04 PM
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Baker Mayfield is a wise and considerate young man....


#GMSTRONG

“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
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"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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GratefulDawg #1871902 07/21/21 05:51 PM
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Glad this is posted here. We read the old saw about a team needing "to control anything we can" in competing. This is something any player on the roster can control unless medically prohibited.

Do nothing to help your opponent. Good stuff IMO. brownie


"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
eotab #1871987 07/22/21 01:26 PM
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j/c...

NFL laying down the law on Covid, wow.




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eotab #1871988 07/22/21 01:27 PM
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HERE WE GO BROWNIES! HERE WE GO!!
eotab #1871989 07/22/21 01:30 PM
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Goodell just put his balls on the table.

Get vaccinated.

cfrs15 #1871990 07/22/21 01:37 PM
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Those who aren't a part of the solution are part of the problem. You have personal choices but those choices come with consequences.


Stand up for those less fortunate than yourself. That's what Jesus told us to do.

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eotab #1871991 07/22/21 02:34 PM
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so.. do they refund the ticket cost?


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eotab #1871993 07/22/21 02:36 PM
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So.. do they refund the ticket cost?


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SaintDawg #1871995 07/22/21 03:02 PM
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Originally Posted By: SaintDawg
so.. do they refund the ticket cost?


I would assume. They can’t charge you for something you don’t receive.

cfrs15 #1872008 07/22/21 04:33 PM
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Would it be a forfeit during playoffs? What if the infected player is cut? Seems like a real incentive NOT to report honestly. Some clubs have cheated on less.

This just became a bigger deal, especially with the Tau or Omicron or Omega or Ragnarok variant. We may be in this for a longer haul than we thought with all the crowing about killing mandates. The Commish really is in this to give some guidelines. Hope he thought this through. fingerscrossed


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Man, you know Cole Beasley will be getting some side-eyes in the locker room after this latest report.


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Bard Dawg #1872019 07/22/21 05:19 PM
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The tests are not done by the team so there is no way they could “not report” a positive test.

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So....you only get penalized for covid if you are not vaccinated? It seems an increasing % of positive cases are from jabbed people. Do covid positive teams get free passes as long as the sick people are vaccinated? Sick is sick....the cdc lied when it said vacinated people cant pass the disease....i have no idea why the geniuses made that claim. If you have an active bug floating in your body then you are contagious to some degree.

And penalizing the healthy team? Not sure that will stand up in court.

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Court? The NFL is a business, it can make its own policies, so why would it go to court? Hopefully they will make fans show a vax passport too.


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So you support a team that achieves 100% vaccination rates not being paid for a game forfeited for reasons beyond its control?

And why do vaxxed players get a pass on testing with 14 day windows when it has been demonstrated time and again that you will still catch the bug and be contagious if vaccinated....science man...science


If there are exemptions to any rule or law or that it gets appllied differntly in different circumstances then the rule or law is fundementally bad.

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The NFL's not putting you in that position, COVID 19 is.


And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
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"You can still get COVID if you get the vax" is the same as saying "the bullets still hit you if you wear a bulletproof vest".


And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir

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It sounds good, but I see a lot of loopholes.

Who is and who isn't can't be released by the NFL. I am not even sure if the NFL can find out who is and who isn't if the players didn't get the vaccine at the team facility or by the team medical staff. I don't believe so if the player(s) don't give expressed consent.


If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.

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j/c

When coercion doesn't work...move on to extortion.

BTW, "They" really need to stop calling the shot a vaccine...it's clearly NOT a vaccine...it's a flu shot...we all know it...just say it and move on.

IMO the NFL has zero business playing this game. Put on your big-boy pants Roger and simply dictate that in order to play you must be vaccinated - which I am personally wildly against - just like making medical professionals get the annual flu shot or they are gone. Roger is a dictator trying to not appear like one...which is laughable...we all know he is. These 'games' Roger and The Shield play are stupid theater.

Like what constitutes a catch, a fumble, or holding...a drug test in the middle of the summer for some players but not others/all...a dictate of "testing the un-vaccinated"...the NFL has added another wrinkle that creates the opportunity/illusion of favoritism - as we already know that the darling teams will NEVER get burned by the new extortion.

What happens when the party-going, flu-shoted, player gets the Corona and passes it on to the not-flu-shoted player who lives in a bubble when not at work?

Just when you think the NFL can't possibly more over-reach in their dictatorship they say "here, hold my beer".

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Originally Posted By: jfanent
"You can still get COVID if you get the vax" is the same as saying "the bullets still hit you if you wear a bulletproof vest".


not even close

it would be like:

I have this magical shield around me that usually protects me from 22mm bullets and it may or may not protect me from every single other bullet.

We don't know if there is a covid season (like the flu or cold) and if so, the number of cases drops would be similar to the flu. Which, could mean the vaccine doesn't work like they think it does.

We don't know what happened to the flu. Did covid kill it or did the flu and sars somehow combine?

There are far too many unknowns for anyone to have an opinion on the effectiveness of anything.

- In '18/'19 we had 34,000 deaths, in '19/'20 over 22,000 deaths, and in '20/'21 about 700.


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Yes, it only goes against unvaccinated players and their respective team. See, there's this little thing about doing the best you can to stop the spread of Covid and doing nothing to stop the spread.

They aren't going to punish those doing the best they can.

Vaccinated people are far less likely to contract Covid. This isn't complicated.


Stand up for those less fortunate than yourself. That's what Jesus told us to do.

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You do understand that the flu is much less contagious than Covid and that by wearing masks you greatly reduce the spread of the flu, right?


Stand up for those less fortunate than yourself. That's what Jesus told us to do.

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Originally Posted By: PitDAWG
Yes, it only goes against unvaccinated players and their respective team. See, there's this little thing about doing the best you can to stop the spread of Covid and doing nothing to stop the spread.

They aren't going to punish those doing the best they can.

Vaccinated people are far less likely to contract Covid. This isn't complicated.


Please define "Best you can". Is that like "misinformation"?

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The best way available to help stop the spread of Covid is the vaccine. That's not misinformation. As of now that's the best thing anyone can do to help stop the spread. Misinformation is when someone tries to say otherwise.


Stand up for those less fortunate than yourself. That's what Jesus told us to do.

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They are punishing players that toe the company line....if a team is 100% vacinated and scheduled to play a unvax team that has an outbreak and the game is forfeited....the vaxed teams players dont get paid.....that is punishment plan an simple.

And sick is sick....positive is positive....it doesnt matter if you got a shot or not.

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So if Hopkins tweaks a knee and tells the team Doc to just shoot it with cortisone so I can go back in and play.. is that so much different?


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So doing nothing to try and prevent it doesn't mean anything in your eyes? Doing everything you can to prevent means nothing to you? I'm glad most people don't think the way you do.

You're obviously beyond reach.


Stand up for those less fortunate than yourself. That's what Jesus told us to do.

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Vikings' Rick Dennison reportedly out as assistant coach after refusing COVID-19 vaccine

https://nz.news.yahoo.com/vikings-rick-d...-181439552.html


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Originally Posted By: PitDAWG
The best way available to help stop the spread of Covid is the vaccine. That's not misinformation. As of now that's the best thing anyone can do to help stop the spread. Misinformation is when someone tries to say otherwise.


I didn't ask you the best way to stop the spread - although your answer to that unasked question is reasonable.

Doing the "Best you can" is up to the individual...as is doing "enough". No one can define that/those FOR an individual.

"Misinformation" is the new catch-word for disagreement or difference-of-opinion...only weaponized. It's up to the individual to decide if information is useful or not.

IMO...the NFL just made a rule that is even more intrusive than simply mandating that if you want to play in the league, you have to get the shot(s).

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People do have differing opinions on things. The difference is their aren't differing sets of facts.

Employers have the same right to choose who their employees are as their employees have a right to choose whether to get the vaccine or not. Choices have consequences. And I'm pretty sure the NFL's decision will have some consequences for them as well.

Claiming players have rights while claiming the owners have none seems a bit one sided.


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Not only that. The players on the team who had the infection are also docked pay, shot or not.

I wonder what happens if a person vaccinated gets it...that seems to be happening now...who gets docked then?

As I said earlier, I don't think the NFL will know who has had a shot if the player elected to get one away from the team unless the player shares that info.

Nobody else can share it without the players approval.


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Quote:
BTW, "They" really need to stop calling the shot a vaccine...it's clearly NOT a vaccine...it's a flu shot...we all know it...just say it and move on.


I am not against personal choice, and in many ways agree, but that statement isn't correct.

The flu shot is a vaccine. All vaccines don't last a lifetime.
Maybe some do, but then again, science might be tricked a bit. Possibly the microbe that caused the illness didn't have anywhere to breed and mutate because it couldn't find a host, thus it died out.

But, something like the flu can breed in a pig or some other animal, then jump back to humans in a somewhat different form.

I suppose this man made virus will do much the same and we will be getting shots every year, or at least at some point where science can reasonably predict which variant is going to be making the rounds.

That is why the flu shot each year protects against several variants, but it isn't always spot on, or on at all, leaving some flu seasons very mild, some fairly severe. and others killer when something fairly new breaks out.

Recently, the Swine flu was pretty darn bad because it had some new twists. I remember in maybe the late 60's, early 70's, the Hong Kong flu was a real bad strain that killed millions worldwide..it was a pandemic.


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Why don't some of you guys that appear to be anti vax in this circumstance to out and look up the stats..

The states with high Vax rates are getting fewer cases of Covid..

That should tell the whole story..


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NFL vaccination data update from Dr. Allen Sills:
As of today:
-80 percent of all players have begun vaccination process.
-9 teams at 90 percent or higher.
-5 teams less than 70 percent.

Notable protocol change from the NFL is that players who had a previous confirmed COVID infection will be considered fully vaccinated once they have had one dose.

NFL exec Dawn Aponte said the "no play, no pay" in case of forfeit provision in the 2021 competitive protocols announced yesterday was agreed to with the NFLPA.

Teams had been waiting to find out about roster flexibility rules, and now there's an answer: The 2020 rules will remain in place, with expanded practice squads, easier return from IR. Both sides (teams/NFLPA) were in favor of keeping them.

The NFL and NFLPA are still negotiating on if there will be a threshold at which restrictions could be lifted on a team-wide basis. (In baseball, that number is 85%). Currently, incentives / restrictions are on individual basis only.

https://twitter.com/bylindsayhjones/status/1418607602573975560


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eotab #1872189 07/23/21 07:16 PM
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CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Thursday’s memo from the NFL to all teams regarding 2021 COVID procedures dropped a bombshell on the NFL. Within the release, there were memos on league decisions for those who choose to go unvaccinated, but there were other pieces of information important to the season ahead.

While the key point received was that that games won’t be posted or rescheduled to avoid roster issues caused by injury or illness of players “in light of the substantial roster flexibility in place for the 2021 season," the memo does not specify the substantial roster flexibility and that is key to many training camps approaching next week.

Today there has been some confirmation from the league on the guidelines. There will be a 16-person practice squad with up six of those spots being for veterans--usually unprotected on previous practice squad rules. There will also be the ability to call up one or more of them as late as 90 minutes before kickoff, in order to replace players who suddenly may land on the COVID-reserve list. There will be two active roster call-ups per week, four player protections each week to avoid stealing from other squads, and lastly, the minimum payment will be $9,200 per week.

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Also, per NFL sources there will also include a short-term injured reserve list, allowing teams to set an injured player aside for only three weeks before bringing him back. While this approach allows aggressive coaches to stash certain players, the league decided last year that the maximum availability of players outweighed the potential for shenanigans.

The Browns can now map out some of their key roster decisions knowing who can be stashed on the practice squad safely and who will be at risk to be swiped from others across the league if they fail to protect them.

https://247sports.com/nfl/cleveland-browns/Article/2021-nfl-practice-squads-168160124/


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Rick Dennison out as Minnesota Vikings assistant after refusing COVID-19 vaccine, sources say

Courtney Cronin
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EAGAN, Minn. -- After refusing to receive a vaccine for COVID-19, Rick Dennison is out as a Minnesota Vikings assistant coach, sources told ESPN on Friday.

Dennison had served as the Vikings' offensive line coach/run game coordinator the past two seasons. In a statement Friday, the Vikings said they were still in discussions with Dennison about the league's COVID-19 protocols.

Another coach in the league, New England Patriots co-offensive line coach Cole Popovich, also won't be with his team in 2021 in a decision related to the COVID-19 vaccine and NFL guidelines, league sources confirmed to ESPN.

The vaccine is required for all Tier 1 staff, including coaches, front-office executives, equipment managers and scouts. Players are not required to receive the COVID-19 vaccine but will face strict protocols during training camp and throughout the season that vaccinated players will be able to forgo.

In a memo released by the league this summer, the NFL said any unvaccinated Tier 1 staff member must provide a valid religious or medical reason for not receiving the vaccine. Losing Tier 1 status prohibits coaches from being on the field and in meeting rooms and having direct interactions with players.

EDITOR'S PICKS

NFL says COVID outbreaks could lead to forfeits
16hKevin Seifert

WR Hopkins, others question NFL's vaccine push
17hJosh Weinfuss
The Vikings noted in their statement that Dennison does not have a vaccination exemption.

Phil Rauscher has been promoted from assistant offensive line coach to fill Dennison's position, sources told ESPN. The Vikings also hired Ben Steele, who had recently been hired by Auburn as a special teams analyst, to fill the position Rauscher had held since 2019.

Dennison's departure comes at a time of transition for the Vikings' offense, which will be guided by first-year offensive coordinator Klint Kubiak. Kubiak, 34, was promoted to fill the role his father, Gary, held in Minnesota during the 2020 season.

With 27 years of NFL coaching experience, Dennison was considered a vital piece in helping bridge the gap for the younger Kubiak, given his experience calling run plays and knowledge of the scheme the Vikings have used since the 2019 season.

The Vikings were one of the league's prominent running teams in 2020 behind Dalvin Cook, who became the first Minnesota player to rush for at least 1,500 yards and 15 touchdowns in a season. Cook was responsible for 30.5% of the Vikings' scrimmage yards, the second-highest rate in the NFL behind Tennessee's Derrick Henry (33.8), according to ESPN Stats & Information data.

In New England, Popovich coached with the Patriots through the spring, and his on-field presence stood out, in part, as he was one of the only staffers to wear a mask during practice.

Popovich, who is distantly related to longtime San Antonio Spurs coach Gregg Popovich but said in September that he has never met him, was set to enter his seventh season with the Patriots. In 2020, he had shared the offensive line duties with longtime former Youngstown State offensive line coach Carmen Bricillo, who is now expected to take on more of a leading role.

The Boston Globe first reported that Popovich wouldn't be coaching with the Patriots in 2021.

Dennison, 63, worked with Gary Kubiak for more than three decades in Denver (1995-2009, 2015-16), Houston (2010-13) and Baltimore (2014). Before joining the Vikings in 2019, Dennison served as offensive line coach/run game coordinator for the New York Jets in 2018.

Rauscher is entering his seventh season as a coach in the NFL after joining the Vikings in 2020. He coached with Dennison on the Broncos staff during the 2015 and 2016 seasons and was Washington's offensive line coach in 2019.

Steele was on several NFL rosters as a tight end from 2001 to 2007, including in Houston under Gary Kubiak. He began working in the NFL in 2013 as an offensive quality control coach for the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, a position he held until 2016. Steele was later promoted to tight ends coach for the Buccaneers before moving to the Atlanta Falcons, where he was an offensive assistant in 2019 and tight ends coach in 2020. He was hired by Auburn earlier this year.

The Vikings will hold their first training camp practice Wednesday.

ESPN's Mike Reiss contributed to this report.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/3186...ine-sources-say


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Originally Posted By: GratefulDawg
NFL exec Dawn Aponte said the "no play, no pay" in case of forfeit provision in the 2021 competitive protocols announced yesterday was agreed to with the NFLPA.


That should put an end to all of this but I bet it doesn't. You'll still have those who feel it should be your personal choice whether to take a much higher risk of helping spread a virus that effects those around you.


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Originally Posted By: PitDAWG
Originally Posted By: GratefulDawg
NFL exec Dawn Aponte said the "no play, no pay" in case of forfeit provision in the 2021 competitive protocols announced yesterday was agreed to with the NFLPA.


That should put an end to all of this but I bet it doesn't. You'll still have those who feel it should be your personal choice whether to take a much higher risk of helping spread a virus that effects those around you.


Looks like that made it the "terms of employment"!

But, if they have a legit reason for not wanting to take the Vax, (like maybe a Dr's note explaining why) is there a mechanism to allow them to remained employed?


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Originally Posted By: PitDAWG
You do understand that the flu is much less contagious than Covid and that by wearing masks you greatly reduce the spread of the flu, right?


The flu is less contagious than COVID. 100%

We don't know if the vaccine really works or not because we don't know if there is a covid season.

It sounds to me like it works and other times it does not work.


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Evidence that it does work is that 95% of the hospitalizations are unvaccinated people. Sounds like isn't evidence.


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Originally Posted By: Damanshot
Originally Posted By: PitDAWG
Originally Posted By: GratefulDawg
NFL exec Dawn Aponte said the "no play, no pay" in case of forfeit provision in the 2021 competitive protocols announced yesterday was agreed to with the NFLPA.


That should put an end to all of this but I bet it doesn't. You'll still have those who feel it should be your personal choice whether to take a much higher risk of helping spread a virus that effects those around you.


Looks like that made it the "terms of employment"!

But, if they have a legit reason for not wanting to take the Vax, (like maybe a Dr's note explaining why) is there a mechanism to allow them to remained employed?




Seems I read or heard somewhere that it is. I mean it would have to be. Legit religious reasons would also exempt a employee.


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Wrong, vaccine only gives you a better chance of not dying from covid. Check the news, a number of people have been vaccinated and still caught covid and DIED from it. We are not out of the woods. I live in FLORIDA and our governor opened everything up early AND we lead the nation in covid cases and new deaths.


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Originally Posted By: hitt
Wrong, vaccine only gives you a better chance of not dying from covid. Check the news, a number of people have been vaccinated and still caught covid and DIED from it. We are not out of the woods. I live in FLORIDA and our governor opened everything up early AND we lead the nation in covid cases and new deaths.


I don't think that is the only reason.

I think the biggest reason is the number of tourists and transients that enter the state that causes a good number of the spread.

I won't say majority, but it might be, and there is no real way to track that.


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Freedom of choice cuts both ways.

You can choose to not get vaccinated.

An employer can choose to say don't bother coming to work and getting paid.


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We've been over this time and time again. The vaccine doesn't not prevent you from getting Covid totally. But it most certainly does lessen the chances you will get Covid. Those who have been vaccinated that get Covid are called breakthrough cases.


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Originally Posted By: Ballpeen
I don't think that is the only reason.

I think the biggest reason is the number of tourists and transients that enter the state that causes a good number of the spread.

I won't say majority, but it might be, and there is no real way to track that.


I guess that makes more sense than the fact he's forbidden any place in Florida from having mask mandates or requiring vaccine proof no matter how high the infection or death rate is.


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Originally Posted By: PitDAWG
Originally Posted By: Ballpeen
I don't think that is the only reason.

I think the biggest reason is the number of tourists and transients that enter the state that causes a good number of the spread.

I won't say majority, but it might be, and there is no real way to track that.


I guess that makes more sense than the fact he's forbidden any place in Florida from having mask mandates or requiring vaccine proof no matter how high the infection or death rate is.


Isn't the death rate .3% or so?

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It's sort if a funny thing when people isolate it to "the death rate". Most people who even have healthcare have large deductibles. What would weeks in the ICU cost them? What about just a couple of weeks in the hospital?

Then there are those who it takes weeks and months to ever "get back to normal" and be able to go on with life the same as they did before they had Covid.

But when you refuse to factor in the huge financial burden and loss of quality of life for a long period of time due to Covid, it does sound better.

But hey, at least they didn't die, right?


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Yes, the death rate is low, yet ask those who are dead because they didn't get the shot how they feel about it now. The nurse who listens to desperate people on/going onto incubators-give me the shot. Lastly, the political party which smears the shot, how many of their "leaders" have the shot AND get best medical care available....football, we MIGHT have a full season, but this thing ain't over and glad the NFL has stated LOSSES if you have breakout- each team must decide what's important. JMHO, no question, get the shot.

Last edited by hitt; 07/25/21 12:49 PM.

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Just my 2 cents. Players use steroids, growth hormones and other supplements etc. Let's face it we KNOW those aren't good for you. We don't know the affects of the vaccine right now other than it will help prevent getting the Covid and if you do it will lessen the severity of the symptoms. I'd get the shot if I were the players. JMO

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The first Covid vaccine in America was administered on December 14, 2000. I'd say the impact and side effects are pretty clear after that amount of time.


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I didn't know that. That's a good point.

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This new delta variant is putting young healthy people in the hospital.

https://www.kark.com/news/health/coronav...impact-on-kids/

https://fortune.com/2021/07/08/kids-vulnerable-covid-delta-variant-vaccinated-europe/

https://www.latimes.com/science/story/2021-07-06/what-the-delta-variant-means-for-unvaccinated-kids

I wonder how many kids we will have to bury before people get their heads out of their asses? Everyone should know that by the time a person shows symptoms, it's too late for the vaccine. I can't imagine being a parent and watching my kid be intubated or die because of my stupidity...


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j/c

Browns LB Jeremiah Owusu-Koramoah placed on the COVID-19 reserve list

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Browns second-round linebacker Jeremiah Owusu-Koramoah was placed on the COVID-19 reserve list Sunday, the club reported.

Owusu-Koramoah reported to training camp on Saturday, and was placed on the list Sunday. It is not yet known if he tested positive or if he was a close contact of someone who did. If he tested positive and he’s unvaccinated, he’ll have to quarantine for 10 days.

The NFL and NFLPA haven’t mandated covid vaccinations for players this season, but have placed heavy restrictions on players who aren’t.

The NFL sent a memo to teams last week informing them that the league won’t reschedule a game outside of the 18-week window if a team has a breakout among unvaccinated players, and that both teams will forfeit that game if it can’t be rescheduled during the season.

What’s more, players from both teams won’t get paid if they forfeit a game.

https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2021/07...id-19-list.html

I guess if it had to happen better now than later.


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Just read about JOK.

That sucks. Now have await all factors then length of time will be decided.

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Hopefully he’s not a long hauler. Watching Myles suck wind after his COVID return last year was hard. You could see him struggling. He was taking breathing treatments for months after his ‘recovery’. If JOK gets hit hard he could be paying the price well into the first part of the season.

Just take the damn vaccine folks.


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Yep, hopefully he's asymptomatic.


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Agreed. Get the vaccine. Why would anyone want to put themselves and others in danger?

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Do we know if JOK was vaccinated? Hopefully it’s a wake up call for others to get it


"First down inside the 10. A score here likely puts us in the Super Bowl. Landry is far to the left as Hooper settles into the slot. OBJ is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Hunt are split in the backfield as Baker takes the snap ... Here we go."
PortlandDawg #1872437 07/25/21 07:46 PM
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He could not only miss part of the season, he could die. Who knows how long he's had covid or if, and wonder how many players were around him....ain't covid great. Hope the team caught this before we lose lots of folks.


"You've never lived till you've almost died, life has a flavor the protected will never know" A vet or cop
eotab #1872440 07/25/21 08:26 PM
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I think we'll be locked down by October, ain't covid great...


Nobody cares about your feelings.

#gmstrong

PitDAWG #1872447 07/25/21 10:05 PM
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Originally Posted By: PitDAWG
It's sort if a funny thing when people isolate it to "the death rate". Most people who even have healthcare have large deductibles. What would weeks in the ICU cost them? What about just a couple of weeks in the hospital?

Then there are those who it takes weeks and months to ever "get back to normal" and be able to go on with life the same as they did before they had Covid.

But when you refuse to factor in the huge financial burden and loss of quality of life for a long period of time due to Covid, it does sound better.

But hey, at least they didn't die, right?
It's been a while since I heard the death rate mentioned like this. I think that is an artifact from early on when we were still figuring things out. Hospitalization rate took over as that second metric.


There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.

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eotab #1872451 07/25/21 10:09 PM
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There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.

-PrplPplEater
OldColdDawg #1872459 07/26/21 06:45 AM
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Originally Posted By: OldColdDawg
I think we'll be locked down by October, ain't covid great...
unfortunately its trending back this way


"First down inside the 10. A score here likely puts us in the Super Bowl. Landry is far to the left as Hooper settles into the slot. OBJ is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Hunt are split in the backfield as Baker takes the snap ... Here we go."
oobernoober #1872487 07/26/21 09:37 AM
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Originally Posted By: oobernoober


Well, once he recovers and gets one shot, he's considered good-to-go.


Fear us, for we have Hughlett

... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.

eotab #1872507 07/26/21 11:26 AM
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You know my love will Not Fade Away.........


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Browns LB Jeremiah Owusu-Koramoah: ‘I’m feeling just fine…as in zero symptoms’ after being placed on COVID-19 reserve

https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2021/07...19-reserve.html


CLEVELAND, Ohio — Browns rookie linebacker Jeremiah Owusu-Koramoah assured his well-wishers on Monday that he’s okay despite being placed on COVID-19 reserve on Sunday.

“I’m feeling just fine,’' Owusu-Koramoah tweeted on Monday morning. “Thank you everyone. Peace be unto you all.’' He went onto add “As in Zero Symptoms.’'

If Owusu-Koramoah is unvaccinated and is on the list because he tested positive for COVID-19, he’d have to quarantine for at least 10 days, according to the collectively-bargained covid protocols for 2021 training camp and preseason.

That means he could be back on the field by Tuesday or Wednesday of next week depending on his symptoms and test results.

Vaccinated players who test positive are permitted to return to team after two negative tests 24 hours apart. Players can also land on the list for being close contacts of someone who tested positive. NFL teams are not permitted to reveal if a player tested positive or is a close contact, or whether or not they’ve been vaccinated.

Some teams, including the Steelers, are differentiating between vaccinated and unvaccinated players with colored wristbands. Unvaccinated players are tested everyday, while unvaccinated players and staffers are tested only every two weeks.

But the NFL and NFLPA have discussed testing vaccinated players and staffers more frequently in the wake of some breakthrough cases, ESPN’s Adam Schefter reported on Monday.

Colts coach Frank Reich announced Monday that he won’t be with the team at the start of camp because he tested positie for COVID-19. He also said he’s fully vaccinated and asymptomatic.

Schefter reported that so far this month -- and players just started reporting last week -- 13 vaccinated staffers and four vaccinated players have tested positive. There’s concern about vaccinated players spreading the virus to the unvaccinated, especially if they’re asymptomatic carriers.

The Browns are obviously hoping that Owusu-Koramoah is back sooner than later, because they have big plans for him at weakside linebacker and in many of their sub-packages.

“Things are going well with him,’' defensive coordinator Joe Woods said during minicamp last month. “A very smart player, very athletic. You can see the speed, the quickness and the change of direction. He’ll be able to match up well against tight ends. The thing we have to be careful of and I have to be careful of is you look at him, and you want to do a lot, but coming in as a rookie, you do not want to put him in those situations.

“You want to gradually bring him along, and as he gains experience and understands the defense more and more, then you will start to expand it. There are some things drawn on the whiteboard I want to do, but we probably will not get to all of them this year.”

Rookies and quarterbacks reported to camp on Saturday, and the rest of the team reports on Tuesday. The first full-squad practice is Wednesday, and the first one open to the public is Friday.

The NFL and NFLPA haven’t mandated covid vaccinations for players this season, but have placed heavy restrictions on players who aren’t.

The NFL sent a memo to teams last week informing them that the league won’t reschedule a game outside of the 18-week window if a team has a covid breakout among unvaccinated players, and that both teams will forfeit that game if it can’t be rescheduled during the season.

What’s more, players from both teams won’t get paid if they forfeit a game, and the offending club could be on the hook for financial losses of both clubs.

Several Browns players have had lingering reservations about being vaccinated for one reason or another, but the Browns are close to reaching the 85% threshold as a team. Once they do, they’ll have some team-wide restrictions lifted.

During Baker Mayfield’s football camp for kids on Wednesday, he indicated he had been vaccinated since minicamp and said he felt it was the right thing to do.

“Obviously last year was new for everybody,’' Mayfield said during a media availability at the camp. “So it was a lot of learning the protocols and whatnot. It definitely poses a competitive advantage for higher vaccine rates on your team just because of the close contact [rules] and what happens if somebody does unfortunately get COVID, what can happen to the rest of the building.

“It’s a competitive advantage but it’s also way more than that. It’s about safety and just general health and well-being of human life. So I’d leave it at that.’'

Last season, the Browns were one of the NFL teams most impacted by the pandemic, with Myles Garrett missing two games after testing positive, the starting receiving corps missing the loss to the Jets because of contact tracing, and Kevin Stefanski missing the Wild Card victory over the Steelers after testing positive.

The Browns are hoping to have fewer interruptions this season, and the NFL has heavily incentivized players to get the shot.

Unvaccinated players must continue to get tested daily, wear masks and physically distance. They can’t eat meals with teammates and can’t leave the team hotel to interact with individuals outside the club. Vaccinated players are tested every two weeks, can go out while on the road, and more. The heavy restrictions for unvaccinated players have resulted in a big jump in the numbers over the past several weeks.

NFL Network’s Judy Battista reported on Friday that nine teams are above the 90% threshold and 80% percent of NFL players have begun the vaccination process.


You know my love will Not Fade Away.........


#gmSTRONG
GratefulDawg #1872528 07/26/21 01:27 PM
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The fact this idea was even entertained is ridiculous.

Side Note: The NFLPA needs to update that early 90s logo.


"We'll see how much Brat...errr..........Baker improves w/out Hue in his way."
GratefulDawg #1872552 07/26/21 04:05 PM
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This "dang" thing Covid is a nightmare. JMHO, Coach SKI and Coach Reich would NEVER do anything to hurt their teams, yet it happened. Everyone needs to keep their distances unless playing, we will lose the season if this continues. Just when we are finally GOOD....GO Browns!!!


"You've never lived till you've almost died, life has a flavor the protected will never know" A vet or cop
GratefulDawg #1872559 07/26/21 04:42 PM
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Quote:
Some teams, including the Steelers, are differentiating between vaccinated and unvaccinated players with colored wristbands. Unvaccinated players are tested everyday, while unvaccinated players and staffers are tested only every two weeks.

But the NFL and NFLPA have discussed testing vaccinated players and staffers more frequently in the wake of some breakthrough cases, ESPN’s Adam Schefter reported on Monday.

Colts coach Frank Reich announced Monday that he won’t be with the team at the start of camp because he tested positie for COVID-19. He also said he’s fully vaccinated and asymptomatic.

Schefter reported that so far this month -- and players just started reporting last week -- 13 vaccinated staffers and four vaccinated players have tested positive. There’s concern about vaccinated players spreading the virus to the unvaccinated, especially if they’re asymptomatic carriers.

The Browns are obviously hoping that Owusu-Koramoah is back sooner than later, because they have big plans for him at weakside linebacker and in many of their sub-packages.

“Things are going well with him,’' defensive coordinator Joe Woods said during minicamp last month. “A very smart player, very athletic. You can see the speed, the quickness and the change of direction. He’ll be able to match up well against tight ends. The thing we have to be careful of and I have to be careful of is you look at him, and you want to do a lot, but coming in as a rookie, you do not want to put him in those situations.


That article made it unclear whether the Schefter reported numbers were numbers from , the entire NFL, or the Colts team only, or the Browns team only.

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Originally Posted By: hitt
This "dang" thing Covid is a nightmare. JMHO, Coach SKI and Coach Reich would NEVER do anything to hurt their teams, yet it happened. Everyone needs to keep their distances unless playing, we will lose the season if this continues. Just when we are finally GOOD....GO Browns!!!



If we didn't lose last season, I doubt we lose this season.


If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.

GM Strong




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MemphisBrownie #1872592 07/26/21 09:41 PM
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Originally Posted By: MemphisBrownie


The fact this idea was even entertained is ridiculous.

Side Note: The NFLPA needs to update that early 90s logo.


Its not so ridiculous when you realize how many people support creating second class citizens with vaxx passports.


"Hey, I'm a reasonable guy. But I've just experienced some very unreasonable things."
-Jack Burton

-It looks like the Harvard Boys know what they are doing after all.
DevilDawg2847 #1872623 07/27/21 11:32 AM
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It's even more ridiculous that people aren't getting vaccines to help protect even stronger variants from evolving and think somehow that's it's "their freedom" to risk infecting others. Having the ability to identify morons who make our world more dangerous isn't a bad thing. If it bothers you for others to know you refuse to get the vaccine, then get the vaccine.


Stand up for those less fortunate than yourself. That's what Jesus told us to do.

#gmstrong
PitDAWG #1872625 07/27/21 11:49 AM
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Originally Posted By: PitDAWG
It's even more ridiculous that people aren't getting vaccines to help protect even stronger variants from evolving and think somehow that's it's "their freedom" to risk infecting others. Having the ability to identify morons who make our world more dangerous isn't a bad thing. If it bothers you for others to know you refuse to get the vaccine, then get the vaccine.


Do you understand that the FDA has not yet approved the vaccine? That there is a 99+% survival rate? That there are effective treatments that the MSM won't tout because the Orange-Man was right about them? The clowns telling us what to do have NO IDEA if the vaccines will stop the virus...let alone any variant...masks are a joke...but now even the vaccinated should wear one? You want ridiculous...there you have it. Right there is plenty for a person to decide not to get the shot.

I chose to get the shot...it's not up to me to demand that others get one as well...especially when we know so little about the virus and the shot. If I wear a much younger man I would not have gotten it either. I wonder...you must be wildly anti-abortion as 100% of that personal choice results in death. Want what's "best for the team"? Where were you on the voluntary mini-camp issue and Camp Baker? Personal choice is not something that others can dictate for another.

The Wuhan virus a problem with less-than-perfect solutions...the individual has the right to decide for themselves what is best. It's not that hard.

WSU Willie #1872628 07/27/21 12:13 PM
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Over 163 million Americans have been fully vaccinated. If people haven't learned that vaccines are safe by now, they'll never admit it. No, there aren't "effective treatments that the MSM won't tout because the Orange-Man was right about them". Those crazy theories have been debunked over and over again. If you have any credible evidence of that, bring it to the table.

Quote:
The clowns telling us what to do have NO IDEA if the vaccines will stop the virus...let alone any variant...masks are a joke...


Ah, the word "stop". Vastly reduce yes, stop no. Masks help reduce the spread of ALL air born viruses. the vaccine make it far less likely you'll get covid and if you do, the symptom will be far less.

Science is something you choose to ignore. And yes, if someone is walking around unvaccinated, I'd like to know who the hell those morons are.

Nobody said these solution were "perfect". Just that they greatly reduce the spread. And you do understand that just surviving is a crazy thing to say. I guess those who are hospitalized, who end up on a ventilator and end up with huge hospital bills, have long term effects from covid...... None of those people really matter right? Because hey, they survived, right?


Stand up for those less fortunate than yourself. That's what Jesus told us to do.

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eotab #1872630 07/27/21 12:33 PM
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Why not take it one step further and require a wristband for any disease that one may have. A wristband for HiV, Hepatitis and so on. That way if those folks are bleeding at work or in a store you know not to help them out.

Dawg1979 #1872633 07/27/21 12:46 PM
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Yeah, those things have killed over 600,000 people since last year. tsktsk


Stand up for those less fortunate than yourself. That's what Jesus told us to do.

#gmstrong
PitDAWG #1872640 07/27/21 01:18 PM
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So only diseases that kill 600k people in a year are important enough?

FrankZ #1872644 07/27/21 01:41 PM
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While I'm not in favor of branding the unvaccinated while the FDA has yet to fully approve any vaccine, and studies are still being conducted (specifically in the younger age range), being deliberately obtuse isn't the answer either. We've been out from under lockdown for like 5 minutes and the #s are already starting to tick back up. The data available shows excellent effectiveness that (IMO) has held up remarkably well in the face of the several variants that have risen up. As for safety, the companies that have been granted EUA have proven the vaccine has a certain level of safety. To me, that roughly translates to "if you're an overall healthy individual, you should get vaccinated... if you have health complications, then you should consult with your doctor."


There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.

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FrankZ #1872645 07/27/21 01:44 PM
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Maybe you should look up the definition of pandemic to understand better. Obviously facts and statistics mean nothing to you.


Stand up for those less fortunate than yourself. That's what Jesus told us to do.

#gmstrong
PitDAWG #1872650 07/27/21 02:13 PM
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Originally Posted By: PitDAWG
Over 163 million Americans have been fully vaccinated. If people haven't learned that vaccines are safe by now, they'll never admit it.


People are following the science of FDA drug approvals and deciding not to get the shot. Why won't you follow the science?


"No, there aren't effective treatments that the MSM won't tout because the Orange-Man was right about them". Those crazy theories have been debunked over and over again. If you have any credible evidence of that, bring it to the table."

Not worth my time. You won't believe that science anyway. Why won't you follow the science?

Quote:
The clowns telling us what to do have NO IDEA if the vaccines will stop the virus...let alone any variant...masks are a joke...


"Ah, the word "stop". Vastly reduce yes, stop no. Masks help reduce the spread of ALL air born viruses. the vaccine make it far less likely you'll get covid and if you do, the symptom will be far less."

The science initially said that masks aren't effective against the COVID virus as the virus is too small. Then the science said masks=good...then science said 2 masks = good. Which science are we supposed to follow? Did the COVID virus get bigger and can now be stopped by a mask?


"Science is something you choose to ignore. And yes, if someone is walking around unvaccinated, I'd like to know who the hell those morons are."

I shouldn't have to say this by now...but I will...Which science are we to follow? Who are the morons who smoke and end up using resources to survive? Does it matter that they live? Who are the morons who drink alcohol and get organ transplants and use up resources to live? Where are the morons whose personal choice results in the death of a baby?

"Nobody said these solution were "perfect". Just that they greatly reduce the spread."

Reasonable. That's why I CHOSE to get the shot. Well done. Should have stopped there.

"And you do understand that just surviving is a crazy thing to say. I guess those who are hospitalized, who end up on a ventilator and end up with huge hospital bills, have long term effects from covid...... None of those people really matter right? Because hey, they survived, right?"

Smokers, drinkers, over-eaters all say "Hold my Beer."

WSU Willie #1872655 07/27/21 02:26 PM
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Once again you obviously haven't been keeping up. The Delta variant is hitting younger people with no mitigating health issues. No, it's what you claim when you have nothing. "You wouldn't believe it anyway". But if you mean I won't believe isolated people over the CDC, NIH and the WHO, you're right. I look to experts when it comes to the risk of life.

New COVID Delta variant hits young people harder

https://www.13abc.com/2021/06/15/new-covid-delta-variant-hits-young-people-harder/

The total process of full approval takes time. That doesn't change the evidence of the millions upon millions of people that have shown it to be safe. But I guess anyone can use that to excuse not doing the right thing.

Once again you use the word "stop" in regards to masks. It helps prevent the spread, it doesn't stop it. It seems the concept of the more you learn about something, the more you know about it. Covid 19 was a completely new strain of vaccine. As time has gone on, the more they have learned. As such recommendations have changed. It's not a complicated concept.


Stand up for those less fortunate than yourself. That's what Jesus told us to do.

#gmstrong
PitDAWG #1872662 07/27/21 03:24 PM
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Not keeping up? rofl Is that like "misinformation"? You don't even acknowledge the examples I've given you over and over again...why should I give you more that don't follow your mantra?

What if a person decides to believe the FDA EXPERTS over the CDC, WHO, etc.? Whose science do you follow? Who gets to decide what constitutes "not doing the right thing?"

Masks don't work on COVID...it's a proven science. Why won't you do the right thing and follow that science?

We aren't talking about the science of gravity or physics here. We are - right now - talking about the kind of science that in the 70's told me (tried to scare us all) we would all be frozen ice cubes by now...and the same science bloviating for the last 10-15 years that the world will incinerate in the next 12 years (trying to scare us all) if we don't stop having bovine farts in the atmosphere. Follow the science...look at the stats...yeah...right...then make your own decision.

I made my choice...you made yours...others should be allowed-to as well. If someone asks me why I got the shot, I tell them. If someone asks whether I think they should get the shot, I tell them yes.

A good friend of mine is the the hospital with COVID right now. It's not looking promising at the moment. He is 61...has comorbidity...he was vaccinated very early on. When people see that...and see that "masks-are-back" even for the vaccinated...and the FDA has STILL not approved squat...you'll get people that make a choice to skip the vaccine...er...flu shot...or flu shot Delta variant.

WSU Willie #1872666 07/27/21 03:51 PM
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Yep, that's why the CDC has come out with new guidelines for school just today, because they don't work.

What "FDA experts" are you talking about that say vaccines or masks don't work? Are you just trying to say that just because the full approval process has not yet been completed that somehow means something?

The flu is far less infectious than the Delta variant. That's not even worthy of discussion. And the Delta variant is far more infectious than any other Covid variant.

Nearly all COVID deaths in US are now among unvaccinated

https://apnews.com/article/coronavirus-pandemic-health-941fcf43d9731c76c16e7354f5d5e187

That's a little better than "I know a guy".

Statistics show the stark risks of not getting vaccinated against COVID-19

COVID-19 has become a "pandemic of the unvaccinated."

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/statistics-show-risks-vaccinated-covid-19/story?id=78845627

Use Masks to Slow the Spread of COVID-19

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/diy-cloth-face-coverings.html

I don't care who gets vaccinated. But I sure as hell want to know who they are so I can stay away from them. Some things deserve a warning label.


Stand up for those less fortunate than yourself. That's what Jesus told us to do.

#gmstrong
WSU Willie #1872674 07/27/21 04:35 PM
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The only thing the FDA has said about the vaccine is that the 3 to receive EUA proved a basic level of safety and effectiveness, and the benefits outweigh the risks. Them not approving as of yet does not constitute a rejection. It is believed that at least the vaccine makers that have been granted EUA should have a pretty secure path to full approval. The only thing I'm watching out for is any added contraindications/warnings when they go for full approval. For example (and please correct me if I'm wrong because the last time I looked this up was back when I first got my own vaccine), I don't think the data is there yet for pregnant women looking to get the vaccine. There has also been the rare side effects that have popped up since authorization.


There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.

-PrplPplEater
oobernoober #1872676 07/27/21 04:40 PM
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Several experts have come out and said that final approval is eminent and that the vaccines are safe, effective, and it's only a matter of time for full approval. But people's feelings and beliefs tainted by politicization of covid won't let them see the forest for the trees.


Nobody cares about your feelings.

#gmstrong

eotab #1872710 07/27/21 10:14 PM
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Nobody cares about your feelings.

#gmstrong

eotab #1872751 07/28/21 11:57 AM
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Nobody cares about your feelings.

#gmstrong

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Quote:
Masks don't work on COVID...it's a proven science. Why won't you do the right thing and follow that science?


Because your science is ill thought. Masks do work for COVID. If it weren’t the case I’d have gotten COVID by now from all my exposure working as a nurse.
Now your hunting neckgaiter, or a bandana, isn’t a mask. It’s a temper tantrum. If people took COVID seriously they would have bought better protection for themselves. I purchased KN95 masks for personal use shortly after the outbreak happened. I still wear one in indoor public settings. I wear KN95 masks for all patient visits, or N95 for known positive cases.
Personal responsibility needs to come into play… but we see where that has gotten us…. A bunch of mask Karens, neckgaiters, bandanas, and exposed noses. So… here we are. Welcome to the Delta variant. It’d love to take up residence to those not willing to protect themselves properly through vaccinations, better masks, and such.
Good luck out there.


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OldColdDawg #1872783 07/28/21 03:35 PM
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Play stupid games...

...also, didn't he have COVID last year??


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PortlandDawg #1872792 07/28/21 03:56 PM
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Couldn't agree more thumbsup

Homewood Dog #1872818 07/28/21 07:57 PM
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PortlandDawg #1872837 07/28/21 10:54 PM
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Originally Posted By: PortlandDawg
Quote:
Masks don't work on COVID...it's a proven science. Why won't you do the right thing and follow that science?


Because your science is ill thought. Masks do work for COVID. If it weren’t the case I’d have gotten COVID by now from all my exposure working as a nurse.
Now your hunting neckgaiter, or a bandana, isn’t a mask. It’s a temper tantrum. If people took COVID seriously they would have bought better protection for themselves. I purchased KN95 masks for personal use shortly after the outbreak happened. I still wear one in indoor public settings. I wear KN95 masks for all patient visits, or N95 for known positive cases.
Personal responsibility needs to come into play… but we see where that has gotten us…. A bunch of mask Karens, neckgaiters, bandanas, and exposed noses. So… here we are. Welcome to the Delta variant. It’d love to take up residence to those not willing to protect themselves properly through vaccinations, better masks, and such.
Good luck out there.


I think this is a fantastic illustration of what I've been talking about.

I'd agree that that the N95 masks are effective.

So why is Fauci out there saying BS things like one mask, two mask, etc? Why after over a year and a half even with the potential return of mask mandates has there been no push to get N95 masks out to the public? Its not like any of this is a surprise. Why are the authorities who are touting 'the science' telling people and demonstrating through their own usage of the same nonsense? At least when the cameras are on.

These are largely rhetorical questions, but again it just illustrates a source of hesitance. You're in the med field, perhaps you can answer this for me? Why do hospitals and other corners of healthcare, along with organizations like NIH, CDC, etc have such hard time with breaking that 60% vaxxed rate themselves?

I'm not asking this to be obtuse but I don't have to turn the channel too far to see local reports of vaxx rates on par, or little better than the public average. I haven't had to travel far to experience first hand that the 3 large hospital systems in my area each had/have differing COVID protocols.

So listen to the 'experts'?


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DevilDawg2847 #1872883 07/29/21 11:13 AM
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95% of the hospitalizations are of the unvaccinated and 99% of deaths are as well. So no, I'd say we listen to the people who know less about this virus? It's been working so well thus far. Right?


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DevilDawg2847 #1872897 07/29/21 01:46 PM
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Originally Posted By: DevilDawg2847
Originally Posted By: PortlandDawg
Quote:
Masks don't work on COVID...it's a proven science. Why won't you do the right thing and follow that science?


Because your science is ill thought. Masks do work for COVID. If it weren’t the case I’d have gotten COVID by now from all my exposure working as a nurse.
Now your hunting neckgaiter, or a bandana, isn’t a mask. It’s a temper tantrum. If people took COVID seriously they would have bought better protection for themselves. I purchased KN95 masks for personal use shortly after the outbreak happened. I still wear one in indoor public settings. I wear KN95 masks for all patient visits, or N95 for known positive cases.
Personal responsibility needs to come into play… but we see where that has gotten us…. A bunch of mask Karens, neckgaiters, bandanas, and exposed noses. So… here we are. Welcome to the Delta variant. It’d love to take up residence to those not willing to protect themselves properly through vaccinations, better masks, and such.
Good luck out there.


I think this is a fantastic illustration of what I've been talking about.

I'd agree that that the N95 masks are effective.

So why is Fauci out there saying BS things like one mask, two mask, etc? Why after over a year and a half even with the potential return of mask mandates has there been no push to get N95 masks out to the public? Its not like any of this is a surprise. Why are the authorities who are touting 'the science' telling people and demonstrating through their own usage of the same nonsense? At least when the cameras are on.

These are largely rhetorical questions, but again it just illustrates a source of hesitance. You're in the med field, perhaps you can answer this for me? Why do hospitals and other corners of healthcare, along with organizations like NIH, CDC, etc have such hard time with breaking that 60% vaxxed rate themselves?

I'm not asking this to be obtuse but I don't have to turn the channel too far to see local reports of vaxx rates on par, or little better than the public average. I haven't had to travel far to experience first hand that the 3 large hospital systems in my area each had/have differing COVID protocols.

So listen to the 'experts'?




Some valid questions. I’ll answer a few.
I don’t know why the federal government didn’t push for mass mail outs of KN95 masks after the manufacturing got amped up enough to keep those of us on the frontlines well stocked up. They mailed out checks. A mask or two could have been sent too. I think the federal government was being run by a moron of epic proportions that turned mask wearing political. Sadly by the time the manufacturing caught up there were already mask Karen’s galore. So I doubt it would have been much help.

As to why many in healthcare aren’t yet vaccinated…. I don’t know but have my guesses. Even in my field there are antivaxxers, and more than a few idiots. I guess that falls around 40%.

As to anything else said or not said by the talking heads… I don’t need those people to tell me what I witnessed, or how to protect myself in society. I looked around, did my research, and masked up. I made my own decision to close my social circle. I did what I did, what I continue to do, without outside suggestion or mandate. No one is allowed in my house. I enter no ones house. I mask in indoor public settings. Period. In a couple of years when this thing hopefully burns off or we have incredibly effective treatments I’ll relax my protocols. Until then I don’t want the Delta variant, or any of the coming variants being stewed up in the lungs of science denying dunderheads, in my body. Vaccine or not.


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PortlandDawg #1872911 07/29/21 03:34 PM
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Originally Posted By: PortlandDawg

As to why many in healthcare aren’t yet vaccinated…. I don’t know but have my guesses. Even in my field there are antivaxxers, and more than a few idiots. I guess that falls around 40%.


Having to answer for all the different pro's in an industry isn't fair, so I'm not trying to get on your case at all. But it was an honest question asked honestly... and your response of up to 40% of the industry being idiots doesn't exactly bolster the argument of 'trust the experts'. Hesitancy (sincere or not) feeds off of this type of confusion and even mistrust.


There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.

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PortlandDawg #1872915 07/29/21 03:45 PM
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Opinion piece... but some interesting nuggets within. The first one I found to be interesting. There are other breakdowns of the numbers in the article that may or may not be interesting. I also put a quote from UPMC in there that I found surprising.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/judystone/2...sh=2af3dc72589e

The rate of vaccination is pretty much inverse of the education level of staff. Among practicing physicians, 96% have been vaccinated.* The rate drops to <50% among nurses and even more among aides, especially in nursing homes, even though outbreaks and deaths have been the worst in that setting. Did you know that 40% of COVID deaths were in nursing homes? More than 1500 nursing home staff died as well; an op-ed in the Washington Post says caregivers have the most dangerous job in America. Will mandates backfire and cause an exodus of staff, when there are already shortages?

....

Interestingly, UPMC (University of Pittsburgh Medical Center, a vast chain which has bought up rural hospitals throughout PA ), which now owns a hospital in Maryland, declined to do so, stating, “UPMC awaits more data on the efficacy of the vaccines in preventing transmission of COVID-19 before requiring the COVID-19 vaccine for employees.”


https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/why-wont-some-health-care-workers-get-vaccinated-2021021721967

This Health Harvard article is excellent. If I limited to the interesting point I'd still be copy-pasting the whole article.


There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.

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PortlandDawg #1872929 07/29/21 04:23 PM
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I know that we ramped up production for N95s because I was actually a part of that when DoD helped out DHHS with the acquisition process, because they were overwhelmed.

I don't know if production has been optimized yet. Maybe it has.

You also have the flipside of it where you could essentially buy someone a Ferrari to get them to drive, but they still decide to just walk anyhow.


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dawglover05 #1872931 07/29/21 04:48 PM
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My understanding is that N95's also require some skill/training to use properly. If not, then there's not much benefit to the user beyond what our normal surgical mask would provide.


There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.

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oobernoober #1872938 07/29/21 06:02 PM
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Originally Posted By: oobernoober
My understanding is that N95's also require some skill/training to use properly. If not, then there's not much benefit to the user beyond what our normal surgical mask would provide.


The ones I use at work are fit to me. But before we got those we were using ‘one size fits all’ types. There’s nothing fancy about donning one the first time. Wash your hands. Place it on. Wash your hands. To take it off you only touch the strings. We use Tupperware containers. Putting our face/mask into the Tupperware then pulling the elastic strings over our heads and under the bottom side of the Tupperware. Put the lid on the container. Wash your hands. To put it back on remove the lid from the Tupperware and place your face into the mask. Pull the elastics over your head. Adjust by touching only the edge of the mask. Wash your hands.

KN95 masks are simpler to put on. Just use your clean hands. Touching only the ear loops. These masks we place carefully into small brown paper bags. This way they stay ‘clean’ and any moisture from wearing it can evaporate.


I know I was a little hyperbolic with my 40% in the healthcare field are idiots. But as was later posted the numbers go up as the education level in the field goes up. Doctors are vaccinated at a higher rate than nurses. And nurses at a higher rate than CNAs.
I’ll side with the more highly educated.


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I thought N95's made a seal around your face, which is how they give the benefit of protecting the wearer. I've never worn one, so I'm just parroting a couple 'N95-for-dummies' type articles that are out there (so FWIW).

While wearing one isn't rocket science, the fact we still see a a whole lot of surgical masks with exposed noses tells me that putting a bunch of N95's out there probably wouldn't help much.


There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.

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eotab #1873050 07/30/21 02:20 PM
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You know my love will Not Fade Away.........


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eotab #1873058 07/30/21 03:16 PM
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100% of coaching staff is vaccinated


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GratefulDawg #1873104 07/30/21 06:38 PM
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Good for the Browns, nice to see the majority being responsible.

JulesDawg #1873325 08/01/21 12:00 PM
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Peer pressure in the old days. JMHO, if the NFL league statement that teams not playing games because of covid breakouts- team loses game AND MORE IMPORTANTLY- million dollar a game players not getting PAID for BOTH teams- WOW, that sure puts pressure on every player. These guys aren't bagging groceries, they make more money in couple of game than I've ever made. Money talks, they are really dumb NOT to be vaccinated. Go Browns!!!!


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Over 610,000 Americans have died of Covid-19 and that number is going up every day. Being vaccinated while continuing to take precautions is the smart thing to do. I was glad to hear 90% of the Browns players are vaccinated, but I wonder what the other 10% are waiting on? If just one of them brings the Delta variant into the facility it could cost the team dearly.


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eotab #1873474 08/02/21 02:24 PM
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You know my love will Not Fade Away.........


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GratefulDawg #1873480 08/02/21 02:44 PM
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ASAP

This is the guy I really want to see.

eotab #1873493 08/02/21 03:18 PM
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Oh great... I just heard a covid specialist doctor say the 10 day period was for the original strain and that the delta variant requires 18 days. Eventtually the NFL will pick that up I bet.

Last edited by OldColdDawg; 08/02/21 03:18 PM.

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JMHO, people expect the docs to know everything and do the exact right thing ever time....duh!!! They are human and make mistakes, this virus and its variants are still teaching everyone new things daily. Did you see the NC hospital workers refusing the shot....stupidity rules, we are just human. Hope for best, plan for the worst. Thank God we have Ski as coach, imagine Kitchens running the show- not. Pray for good things, Go Browns!!!


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hitt #1873721 08/03/21 03:40 PM
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j/c...


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The NFL is doing a great job compared to the general population.
9/10 is an A in today's grading. A use to require a 94 percentage. Wish the general population was smarter about everything, especially covid....GO Browns!!!


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eotab #1874036 08/05/21 11:38 AM
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Amid Delta variant and with almost 50% of NFL positive COVID-19 tests among vaccinated players and staff, union calls for daily testing for all

Updated Aug 04, 2021; Posted Aug 04, 2021
By Mary Kay Cabot, cleveland.com

BEREA, Ohio — In light of the surging Delta variant and the fact that almost 50% of positive COVID-19 tests in the NFL occurred among vaccinated players and staff in the first week of training camp, the NFLPA will recommend to the NFL daily testing of vaccinated players and staff, same as for the unvaccinated, according to a memo obtained by cleveland.com.

Currently, vaccinated players and staff only have to be covid tested every two weeks.

In addition, the NFLPA is recommending reducing the number of tiered staff allowed into the locker room.

The memo states that although vaccines have shown a greater than 80% effectiveness against all variants, “vaccinated people can both contract and spread the Delta variant.’’

The union emphasizes that “based on the guidance of our medical experts and what we know about this new variant, this is the best defense we have to prevent infections and protect you and your families, while also executing a full season. We will recommend BRL PCR testing for vaccinated staff and players each day you/they enter the facility, the goal of which is to detect positive cases quickly and prevent the spread of the virus.

“You will not have to wait for a test result and we will NOT recommend testing on your off days or bye week.’’

It states that “based on our experience from last year, the number of positive tests in the first week of training camp (data below) is cause for concern.’’

The memo says that “we have tested 2,528 players and 4,549 staff since training camps began (July 25th-August 1st) and have had more than 65 positive cases. 32 of these cases are among vaccinated individuals (again, while vaccines lower the risk of infection, they do not prevent infection; they are proven to prevent serious illness and death).’'

Browns linebacker Jeremiah Owusu-Koramoah is one of the unvaccinated players who tested positive and was activated off COVID-19 reserve on Tuesday. He said he remained asymptomatic throughout his 10-day quarantine.

“These ‘breakthrough’ cases are consistent with what our COVID Taskforce and the CDC have learned about the Delta variant in recent weeks, This Delta variant is NEW and is 50% more contagious than the original strain of the coronavirus.

“Individuals infected with Delta can also spread the virus to more people, spreading it to 5-9 people as opposed to the 2-3 with the original virus.’’

The memo adds that “we have had two outbreaks inside club facilities (Atlanta and Miami) in the first week of training camp this year when we had no team facility transmission until week 3 last year. We have consistently stated that football will go the way of our communities, and multiple cities and states are experiencing record surges in infections and hospitalizations due to the Delta variant.’’

The union makes it clear that it had to pivot throughout last season to adjust to the changing COVID-19 landscape.

“Last year, our NFLPA COVID Taskforce, staff and player leadership worked together to recommend a game plan for how we would play a full season while also keeping everyone as safe as possible,’’ it read. “We had to adjust that plan throughout the year given what we learned about the virus, and we achieved our goals thanks to your flexibility, understanding and dedication to the protocols.’’


https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2021/08...ng-for-all.html


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As nice a guy JOK is...and talented, I hope the Browns isolate him if he isn't vaccinated. Life is a team sport, I don't want him infecting other Browns, we need daily testing and keep players as safe as possible.


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If he's already had Covid and is no longer contagious, he's safer to be around than anyone else, including those who have been vaccinated.


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Why COVID-19 Vaccines Offer Better Protection Than Infection

https://www.jhsph.edu/covid-19/articles/...-infection.html


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I think common sense prevails in the case of JOK. He just had Covid, he's no longer contagious. It's just sheer fear that would lead someone to assume that he's more of a danger to get Covid again (this quickly) and pass it on to others at a higher rate than any other player... particularly considering that 32 of the 64 recent infections are among players that are fully vaccinated.

And let's be honest, even "science" has become a lot of "he said, she said" lately. Is my source better than your source? Nobody really knows... This is a very recent article on Reuters talking about the possibilities and efficacy of "booster shots".

Quote:
Among fully vaccinated people who never had COVID-19, getting a third dose of an mRNA vaccine from Pfizer (PFE.N)/BioNTech or Moderna (MRNA.O) would likely increase levels of antibodies, but not antibodies that are better able to neutralize new virus variants, Rockefeller University researchers reported on Thursday on bioRxiv ahead of peer review. They note that in COVID-19 survivors, the immune system's antibodies evolve during the first year, becoming more potent and better able to resist new variants. In 32 volunteers who never had COVID-19, they found that antibodies induced by mRNA vaccines did evolve between the first and second shots. But five months later, vaccine-induced antibodies were "equivalent" to those seen after the second dose, with "little measurable improvement" in the antibodies' ability to neutralize a broad variety of new variants, said coauthor Michel Nussenzweig. Therefore, he said, giving those individuals a third dose of the same vaccine would likely result in higher levels of antibodies that remain less effective against variants. "At the moment, the vaccine remains protective against serious infection," Nussenzweig said. "Should we learn that efficacy is indeed waning for serious infection, which is not really the case to date," then a booster dose of "whatever is available" might become appropriate, he added. Should an updated vaccine become available that protects against specific variants, "then that would be the choice."

https://www.reuters.com/business/healthc...ine-2021-08-02/


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If I already had Covid-19 and recovered do I still need to get vaccinated with a Covid-19 vaccine?

Yes, you should be vaccinated regardless of whether you already had COVID-19. That’s because experts do not yet know how long you are protected from getting sick again after recovering from COVID-19. Even if you have already recovered from COVID-19, it is possible—although rare—that you could be infected with the virus that causes COVID-19 again. Studies have shown that vaccination provides a strong boost in protection in people who have recovered from COVID-19. Learn more about why getting vaccinated is a safer way to build protection than getting infected.

If you were treated for COVID-19 with monoclonal antibodies or convalescent plasma, you should wait 90 days before getting a COVID-19 vaccine. Talk to your doctor if you are unsure what treatments you received or if you have more questions about getting a COVID-19 vaccine.

If you or your child has a history of multisystem inflammatory syndrome in adults or children (MIS-A or MIS-C), consider delaying vaccination until you or your child have recovered from being sick and for 90 days after the date of diagnosis of MIS-A or MIS-C. Learn more about the clinical considerations people with a history of multisystem MIS-C or MIS-A.

Experts are still learning more about how long vaccines protect against COVID-19. CDC will keep the public informed as new evidence becomes available.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/faq.html

You go with the authors of a report based on 32 people, I'll go with the CDC.

I do certainly agree with you that it's an odd thing to think JOK would become infected again this soon after having Covid.


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PitDAWG #1874085 08/05/21 03:07 PM
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So, in other words, "yes, because we don't know why".

Science is largely based on hypothesis, that's why 95% of these stories are based on a scientists or health officials "best guess".

You know what doesn't lie? MATH.

There have been 201M Covid cases worldwide. Do you know how many documented reinfections there have been? 169. It would be foolish to even extrapolate the percentage there. Even if you take worldwide suspected reinfections, the percentage is .0004. And that percentage has been going down while cases continue to go up. The most extensive study in the world has been going on since last August in the Netherlands. 8278 participants, 1.4% reinfection rate... among healthcare workers... individuals who are around Covid every day of their lives and tested every two weeks.

Furthermore, most reinfections are in nursing homes, among healthcare workers, or among people with compromised immunity.

I guess you can take the "well, what harm could it do" approach. That's fine... and that's also why most health officials are saying to go ahead and get the vaccine even if you've had Covid... because the vaccine has shown to be relatively safe.

Bottom line: The odds of getting reinfected with Covid are much, much lower than Covid penetrating the vaccine wall. FACT.


https://bnonews.com/index.php/2020/08/covid-19-reinfection-tracker/

https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2021/04/previous-covid-19-may-cut-risk-reinfection-84


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Which basically reinforces everything I said and even points to the same site I posted a link for. That website also documents all suspected cases... which, again, points to a reinfection rate of .0004 (that's assuming ALL suspected cases are actual reinfections).

So, while there are reasons why all theses cases can't be documented as "confirmed", even the inflated suspected cases are very rare. Basically, no matter how you want to extrapolate numbers, even basing them on "guessing"... reinfection is very rare.

Meanwhile, 50% of the recent cases in the NFL are among players that were fully vaccinated.

We can't keep pushing data that vilifies a certain set of people with numbers that do absolutely nothing to support a case for it (oh, wait, we CAN... we can and we will).


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Data is only as good as what is being reported. If you had recovered from Covid and got it again, yet were A syptomatic, would you be going in for a Covid test? No, you wouldn't even know you had it again. What about mild symptoms? Probably not. You certainly wouldn't think it was Covid related.

So there is absolutely no way to gauge, even close to how many people have been reinfected. Without a second test it will never be recorded. And as the article I posted shows, even then many states aren't able to actually gauge it among those who have been tested twice.

It's also why actual cases of Covid are undereported. Many weren't sick enough to even get tested. So despite your assertion based on what you call "facts", it's obvious they have no idea.


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One thing that article does not tell us. When were the players vaccinated? A lot of NFL players have been gotten their shots recently so I wonder how many got covid within two weeks of receiving their second dose?


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JMHO, I'm living in a retirement community in FL. We had dance at clubhouse- large number of breakouts of covid with vaccinated. we aren't having anymore dances. Your 169 is from WHEN and who's counting. Math does lie. Better safe than sorry.
Sure hope we have a football season....GO Browns!!!


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LMAO. Which points directly back to my second link. Healthcare workers that are around Covid everyday and tested every two weeks regardless of symptoms... The largest organized and longest running Covid study on the planet. They were reinfected at a rate of 1.4%.

Never mind though, it's easier to just say you're right and move on, this is an NFL thread anyway.


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hitt #1874101 08/05/21 04:15 PM
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Originally Posted By: hitt
JMHO, I'm living in a retirement community in FL. We had dance at clubhouse- large number of breakouts of covid with vaccinated. we aren't having anymore dances. Your 169 is from WHEN and who's counting. Math does lie. Better safe than sorry.
Sure hope we have a football season....GO Browns!!!

The "169" is from the defecto site for tracking reinfection... even Pitt's post pointed directly to it.

It's updated every week. And yes, "better safe than sorry" is the best definition for the "science" being used to tell the previously infected they need to be vaccinated. wink


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Originally Posted By: FATE
LMAO. Which points directly back to my second link. Healthcare workers that are around Covid everyday and tested every two weeks regardless of symptoms... The largest organized and longest running Covid study on the planet. They were reinfected at a rate of 1.4%.

Never mind though, it's easier to just say you're right and move on, this is an NFL thread anyway.



As a healthcare worker I’m curious about that number. I’ve had peers catch COVID. Primarily their vectors were those within their home. A spouse or child. At work we’re all required to wear KN95 or N95 masks. Lessening both my likelihood of work related initial, and subsequent reinfection. So while there’s a 1.4% reinfection rate I wonder how that extrapolates out to say a grocery store worker that doesn’t wear as good of protection in their work place.?

Like legitimately I’ve been around COVID hundreds of times at work since this all started. Always with proper PPE. If I were a grocery clerk I’d have gotten sick for sure with similar exposure numbers.

Just thinking out loud.


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Originally Posted By: PortlandDawg
Originally Posted By: FATE
LMAO. Which points directly back to my second link. Healthcare workers that are around Covid everyday and tested every two weeks regardless of symptoms... The largest organized and longest running Covid study on the planet. They were reinfected at a rate of 1.4%.

Never mind though, it's easier to just say you're right and move on, this is an NFL thread anyway.




As a healthcare worker I’m curious about that number. I’ve had peers catch COVID. Primarily their vectors were those within their home. A spouse or child. At work we’re all required to wear KN95 or N95 masks. Lessening both my likelihood of work related initial, and subsequent reinfection. So while there’s a 1.4% reinfection rate I wonder how that extrapolates out to say a grocery store worker that doesn’t wear as good of protection in their work place.?

Like legitimately I’ve been around COVID hundreds of times at work since this all started. Always with proper PPE. If I were a grocery clerk I’d have gotten sick for sure with similar exposure numbers.

Just thinking out loud.

Man. Tough to compare the two situations. Me? I'd rather be in the grocery store and responsible for my own protection in a situation with way less chance for infection. You guys brought new meaning to the word "hero" for good reason.

As far as that study goes, there were 17,383 participants that were uninfected and 9.8% became infected over a seven month period from June 2020 to January 2021. Pretty interesting study... So many factors make all of these scenarios hard to compare. These were healthcare workers in another part of the world during the height of contamination... with everyone in the world learning "on the fly".

https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2021/04/previous-covid-19-may-cut-risk-reinfection-84


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GMdawg #1874113 08/05/21 06:23 PM
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Originally Posted By: GMdawg
A lot of NFL players have been gotten their shots recently so I wonder how many got covid within two weeks of receiving their second dose?


That would be more concerning because the first few months after getting your second dose is when the vaccine is supposed to work the best.


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superbowldogg #1874114 08/05/21 08:31 PM
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You need two weeks after your second shot before you get the full effect of the vaccine.


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Well you know how it works. 80% of players are vaccinated. So according to fate, only 20% of the players getting half of the covid cases makes a point. Only one fifth of the players had 50% of the cases.

Then there's the crazy accusation that somehow society is "vilifying" those who already had covid that haven't gotten the vaccine.

The fact is over 90% of all people hospitalized and dying of covid are unvaccinated and we still have people acting like telling those facts means your "vilifying" people.


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https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/25/business/covid-vaccines-second-doses.html

From Way back in April 2021.

From the Article Millions of Americans are not getting the 2nd dose. 5 million.

top 3 reasons.
Fear of the side effects
Feeling one shot is protection enough
The 2nd shot is not available of the correct brand at their 2nd appointment.


My opinion again,
This is underreported in the American Media vs the other aspects of the pandemic.
The US big Media in bed with the government and big corporations doesn't want corporations to look bad, the Wal-marts and the vaccine companies.

In Law, In disaster and in economics, big business comes before people, like it or not.

Why I would recommend the single shot no chance to miss the 2nd one.

:last line of the article, But the trend is nonetheless troubling to some state officials.

Underreported I say.

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Numbers matter. Tell the numbers and let people figure it out for the themselves.

I can tell you and you know that millions of lives have been saved by vaccines it's a fact we all should know, or at least I thinks so.

This is a vaccine designed to help protect your life it's really that simple or at least I think it is. It's not that a very small percentage of people will have a violent reaction to it, but beyond that I never ever thought I would see the silliness surrounding the reasoning behind why so many people are saying no to the vaccine.

There are people that believe the government is injecting tracking devices in them thru the Covid-19 vaccine. Of all the silliness I have ever heard this takes the cake it really does. That means the vaccine makers are actively involved, it means that their 100's of thousands of employees are actively involved in a conspiracy to spy on you. For what reason would the government want to spy on you? It's not that they don't already have the ability to spy on you, without injecting it into you via the vaccine. They have ways to spy on you, they simply do. If you have a cell phone you can be tracked. I just don't understand how anyone could ever be convinced that something so silly is so true.

But put the numbers out show the science behind the vaccine and let people decide for themselves, it's all IMO that can be done. I sure do hate seeing people engage in so much silliness but hey they get too.


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This from July 2nd.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/07/02/missed-second-dose-covid19-vaccine/

15 million by June of 2021, had missed their 2nd shots, and this delved into other issues as why.

Including some earlier speculation on the need of 2 shots effectiveness leading some to falsely believe it's not necessary and
others (from the article) falsely believing that covid recovered people would only need one shot for immunity.

And again folks worried about the side effects, it does say people with severe or allergic reactions to the first shot shouldn't get the 2nd. Duh!

but delved into the portion that were just delayed in the time window, (4 weeks after Modernas' or 3 weeks after Pfizers') and had been counted as not getting the
2nd shot
if 42 days had passed, adding that there just wasn't yet data on the effectiveness of those who received their 2nd shots after more time had passed.

IMO the underreported part of the pandemic currently.

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Originally Posted By: FATE
If he's already had Covid and is no longer contagious, he's safer to be around than anyone else, including those who have been vaccinated.



Says Who!

(We know Lamar Jackson had Covid twice, in Nov. of 2020 and July of 2021, was he safer to be around himself.. I don't know his vaccination status.)

edit: ! The First! widely reported drop in transmiss-abillity, iirc. was circa February of 2021, when, The nation of Israel, reached near 50% of their population vaccinated,
which is a large case study into the effectiveness of vaccination, vs. contagiousness imo.

(and millions across the world had died or recovered after testing positive, in the months prior, with no widespread report of reduction of virus spread in any large area of recovered people.

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https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/the-va...dhp&pc=U531

"One of the best-known outbreaks among vaccinated people occurred in the small beach town of Provincetown, Massachusetts, as thousands of vaccinated and unvaccinated alike gathered on dance floors and at house parties over the Fourth of July weekend to celebrate the holiday -- and what seemed like a turning point in the pandemic. About three-fourths of the 469 infections were among vaccinated people."


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superbowldogg #1877336 08/22/21 05:38 PM
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Originally Posted By: superbowldogg
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/the-va...dhp&pc=U531

"One of the best-known outbreaks among vaccinated people occurred in the small beach town of Provincetown, Massachusetts, as thousands of vaccinated and unvaccinated alike gathered on dance floors and at house parties over the Fourth of July weekend to celebrate the holiday -- and what seemed like a turning point in the pandemic. About three-fourths of the 469 infections were among vaccinated people."


I was up there with the family a couple weeks later. Did a week in Cape Cod (Chatham area) and spent a day in P-Town after climbing the dunes in Truro.

We dodged Covid, but saw some humpback whales and ate some great lobster!



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JMHO, we, Americans, have been spoiled for decades- no big health issues- Aids, small numbers, but polio, small pox- society, kids in 50s had gov. shots ALL THE TIME.
Now we have those who think gov is injecting micro dots/tracking devices--the information age has given us too much info and lots of it stuff on your shoe.
My big concern for population and football season- those who have shot think they are bullet proof. Wrong again, the real experts are now talking booster shots. Lastly, thank God our QB isn't like Cousins of Vikings, who's doing his "own research"....dan, millions have had the shots and what have been the results- those with shots mostly live/ don't get hurt as much.....come on people, use your brains.


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I don’t see how teams wouldn’t privately discuss vaccination status. Stating it publicly might be another issue lol


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Ballsy move by Urban. I hope others follow suit.


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Originally Posted By: Dawgs4Life
I don’t see how teams wouldn’t privately discuss vaccination status. Stating it publicly might be another issue lol
Even the stating it out loud part... with how the NFL came in hot regarding COVID rules and punishments... and with guys already getting busted by the hall monitors... how anyone can get their pants in a wad over a coach making this part of their decision-making is fake, IMO.

If you have a problem with this, it's the NFL you should be whining at.


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Hopefully we don't have any COVID reserve players heading into the first game. Hope all the players are smart this long weekend.

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CLEVELAND, Ohio — Browns center JC Tretter, president of the NFLPA, issued a stern warning Tuesday that all NFL players should be tested for COVID-19 daily — either vaccinated or unvaccinated — or risk not getting through a full NFL season amid the ongoing pandemic and raging Delta variant.

Currently, unvaccinated players are tested every day, and vaccinated players are tested once every seven days — recently changed from once every two weeks at the start of the season.


The NFL is opposed to daily testing for vaccinated players and staff members who work closely with players, and has only agreed so far to the once-a-week cadence. But according to Tretter — and a few vaccinated players such as the Cardinals’ Justin Pugh who have tested positive — once a week isn’t good enough.

They don’t believe it’s safe or effective, and have the numbers to back up their claims. In fact, Tretter states unequivocally that the league is in “a worse spot” than last year because of the lack of daily for testing for all, and has been calling for it since at least Aug. 5.

“Clubs have been instructed to test fully vaccinated players and staff over the course of three days each week,’’ Tretter wrote on the NFLPA website. “This then leaves 4-6 days where we don’t know if a vaccinated individual is positive for COVID and shedding virus to those around him. If that happens -- as we have seen it happen repeatedly during training camp -- it could lead to these two bad scenarios:

“Scenario 1: For up to six days, the virus spreads throughout the facility with no one knowing. When it gets to the following Monday, the team resumes testing and 10+ players and staff test positive. Those 10+ people now are in doubt for the following game. Some may be able to get cleared before, but some won’t; and that team will be missing key players.


“Scenario 2: An individual becomes symptomatic on a Friday, which causes additional testing of high-risk close contacts (HRCCs). We find a cluster of positives, which wipes out multiple players a day before the game.’’

Tretter stressed that the league has seen significantly more incidents of transmission inside the building this year than last year, including an outbreak among the highly-vaccinated Titans.

“Transmission within our building is what kills us,’’ he wrote. “When we don’t have our finger on the pulse of what’s going on inside our buildings, we set ourselves up for failure,’’ Tretter wrote. “We’ve seen scenarios like these happen multiple times over the last month. Recently, Tennessee finished up with 14 positives – and the team was 97% vaccinated at that time. It’s not hard to realize how devastating that would be during a week of the regular season. Yet, incidents like this have flown under the radar because players missing training camp practices or preseason games isn’t big news. That will not be the case moving forward and a few teams are already without, or at risk of being without, key starters heading into this opening weekend.


“A weekly testing cadence doesn’t just increase the likelihood that the games suffer because players are missing from the field; it also increases the likelihood of a game being cancelled altogether. If a game gets cancelled, nobody gets paid – including the owners – for the revenues lost from that game. The players lose out, the fans lose out, and the owners lose out. It’s the worst-case scenario that we should all be actively working to avoid – and the fact that we aren’t continues to be a source of frustration for our union.

“We are all tired. No one likes that this is the world we are living in still this season. No one likes mitigation methods. But we cannot do what is easy over what is right. We cannot do what is cheaper over what is right. We have been warned by our experts that, because of our current testing cadence, we are at more risk of missed games this season than last season. If we continue to go down this path, I need everyone in the football community to be aware of what lies ahead.’’

Tretter and the union call for daily testing of vaccinated players, as well as the unvaccinated

Already this week, vaccinated players such as Cowboys starting left tackle Zack Martin could miss the opener against the Bucs after testing positive, and a fully vaccinated Chiefs safety Tyrann Mathieu hasn’t been activated for the Browns game after testing positive last week. Pugh, the Cardinals’ fully-vaccinated guard, called for daily testing for all last month after testing positive when they were still on the once-every-14-days cadence.


“Hey @NFL we need daily testing for vaccinated and non-vaccinated players,” he tweeted then. “I was vaccinated and still got covid. As of now vaccinated players test every 14 days. That’s not enough! Who knows how long I walked around the building with it or whoever I got it from! Fix this ASAP”

NFL Teams also had to sweat out COVID testing this week after players had a mandatory three-day break. Unvaccinated players had to remain in town and be tested every day, while vaccinated players were permitted to enjoy the long weekend. But teams feared they’ve have some positive tests heading into opening weekend. Unvaccinated players who test positive must quarantine for 10 days, while vaccinated players can return to the field after two negative tests in a 24-hour period.

The Browns have about 90% of their players vaccinated, and only second-round linebacker Jeremiah Owusu-Koramoah has been placed on COVID-19 reserve since training camp began.


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I think based on what the Union is saying we are headed for trouble. I sure hope the coaches have had some long talks with the players along with Tretter and the Union.


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One of the things I was told last year when we were in the thick of things was that testing shouldn't be used as a crutch or an 'out' to cover for lax distancing, masking, etc. At this point, with NFL vaccination numbers being what they are and the NFL hall monitors doing their thing, I think they would get far more bang for their buck (in terms of safety) to hammer on other preventative measures and look to testing when it's impossible to stay out of someone else's un-masked face.


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I have to agree to an extent, you can't have two different testing protocols based on Vaccination status when its been proven that being vaccinated doesn't reduce your viral load or ability to transmit despite your resilience to have the virus affect you. So its simple, everyone in the buildings and sidelines should mask and they should test every day. Its the only way to build in an extra layer of safety that will cut down on missed games due to exposure or close contact.


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j/c...


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Daughter and Son-in-law just went to a concert over the weekend where they had to show proof of vaccination or a negative test from that day. They ARE NOT vaccinated so they did the tests. Kroger did the tests, they got the negative results, and entry to the concert went smooth for them, but they said many were turned away... Everybody better get used to this new normal.


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I’ve got an art/music festival gig in Vegas this weekend. I believe all attendees must show proof of vaccination or a negative test within 72 hours or something. For me and my crew to get into the crew/talent catering tents we have to be fully vaccinated. Period. Two on our crew are not... having had only their first jab. So the rest of us will have to schlep food out of the catering tents for them all week. I’ll be wearing a KN95 in those tents regardless. Eat outside.
I’m glad festivals are doing this. Large crowds need these safety measures.


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eotab #1883765 09/15/21 05:52 AM
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Here we go, it starts already. Saints are first victims. Honestly I agree with tretter. Tests should be done every day, it may not be as bad as last season but o fully expect that every nfl team will deal with multiple positive tests at least once


" Now here you are running these dirty old streets tattoo on your neck fake gold on your teeth, got the hood here snowed but you can't fool me, we both know who you are"
OldColdDawg #1883771 09/15/21 07:41 AM
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Originally Posted By: OldColdDawg
Daughter and Son-in-law just went to a concert over the weekend where they had to show proof of vaccination or a negative test from that day. They ARE NOT vaccinated so they did the tests. Kroger did the tests, they got the negative results, and entry to the concert went smooth for them, but they said many were turned away... Everybody better get used to this new normal.


"Show me your papers" has never been normal in this country. I don't think telling people they better get used to it is as sure of a thing as you hope. Stuff like your example is going to catch up and then the question is going to be can these venues afford to be so discriminatory just as a matter sufficient customers. Maybe they can, maybe they won't. My wife and I will be in a similar situation here a few weeks as your daughter and son in law.

Last spring I bought concert tickets for an act she's been wanting to see for years up in D.C. They play in October, 2 weeks after her birthday so I looked like a hero hoping to surprise her. The show was sold out back then so I ended up paying 3x the ticket cost from a third party, got the hotel reserved.

A couple weeks ago I checked and found out the venue is going to start requiring proof of vaxx or neg test the week before the show. The board should know how I feel about this already lol. Anyway, I had to break the surprise to her and gave her the option as I'll already have to be getting a weekly test for my job. She said to go ahead and cancel it on the off chance one of us pops POS the week before and end up wasting the money.

So I go to sell the tickets... or try to. They're locked. The ticket insurance won't cover cancellations related to Covid either. On top of that, tickets for that show were available again through the primary vendor, AT their original price. However, if you bought those tickets they would not be eligible for a refund. Essentially they lock you in to the transaction.

I suspect what happened was they started to see an increase in people returning their tickets and had to slow the bleeding. We'll see how it goes. If for some reason we can't get in to the show, D.C. is still a place we like to visit.

The comedian Jim Bruer announce he's cancelling any of his shows where the venue is demanding proof from patrons. I guess that's half of his tour? My guess is that he probably won't be out much money if at all because I don't think he'll have a hard time replacing tour dates in the places that don't require proof.

It'll be interesting to see how this plays out in Buffalo for sure.

I'd also warn against being too cocksure when encouraging people to embrace a new normal. Its easy to say that when you are talking about entertainment. I don't think its as easy to be so glib when we see reports of hospitals losing 10-40% of its nursing and medical staff through resignation over vaxx mandates and being overworked because of all the unnecessary layoffs over the course of the pandemic. It looks like decreased access to medical care is going to be the new normal too.


"Hey, I'm a reasonable guy. But I've just experienced some very unreasonable things."
-Jack Burton

-It looks like the Harvard Boys know what they are doing after all.
DevilDawg2847 #1883858 09/15/21 02:17 PM
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Dear Lord.


Stand up for those less fortunate than yourself. That's what Jesus told us to do.

#gmstrong
DevilDawg2847 #1883862 09/15/21 02:29 PM
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Get the vaccine and the issues end. smh. Or just keep being you and deal with whatever comes down the pike like it is a conspiracy against YOU instead of a viral pandemic.


Nobody cares about your feelings.

#gmstrong

DevilDawg2847 #1883871 09/15/21 02:36 PM
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Assuming you paid with a credit card, you can pursue your refund via them. If you bought the tickets and then changed the terms of using said tickets, I imagine it shouldn't be hard to get your money back.


There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.

-PrplPplEater
OldColdDawg #1883878 09/15/21 02:40 PM
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You're telling others to get the vaccination while your daughter and son in law haven't.

archbolddawg #1883885 09/15/21 03:02 PM
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As Strother Martin said, "Some people you just can't reach."


Stand up for those less fortunate than yourself. That's what Jesus told us to do.

#gmstrong
OldColdDawg #1883925 09/15/21 04:55 PM
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Originally Posted By: OldColdDawg
Daughter and Son-in-law just went to a concert over the weekend where they had to show proof of vaccination or a negative test from that day. They ARE NOT vaccinated so they did the tests. Kroger did the tests, they got the negative results, and entry to the concert went smooth for them, but they said many were turned away... Everybody better get used to this new normal.


NEW NORMAL??????????? Hell if I'm going to roll over to the Tyrannical Global Elite!


"There's a gleam men. There's a gleam. Let's get the gleam." Marty Schottenheimer

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SuperBrown #1883932 09/15/21 05:15 PM
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Well there's always Covid. You could just roll over and not be playing dead.


Stand up for those less fortunate than yourself. That's what Jesus told us to do.

#gmstrong
DevilDawg2847 #1883944 09/15/21 06:31 PM
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Quote:
"Show me your papers" has never been normal in this country.


And even today it's unusual unless your in a pandemic, which we are. 650,000 Americans are DEAD from it... Can't be denied.

Quote:
The comedian Jim Bruer announce he's cancelling any of his shows where the venue is demanding proof from patrons.


What kind of performer wants to risk the lives of his/her fans. Who is dumb enough to do that. I don't know who Jim Bruer is and I don't care. If all he wants to do is be political instead of proactive, I don't want to know who he is.


#GMSTRONG

“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan

"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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Damanshot #1883958 09/15/21 07:23 PM
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You should stop listening to Eric Clapton's music, too.


Fear us, for we have Hughlett

... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.

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