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GMdawg #1899881 11/06/21 11:38 AM
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Ahmad Aubrey
Many black jurors dismissed
Such a shame ain’t it

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Originally Posted by Dawg Duty
Originally Posted by PortlandDawg
Swish, OCD, Pit…. Look up Brandolini’s Law.

Arguing with the likes of Dawg Duty, Super, and their ilk is a futile waste of your energy.

Don't you have a business to burn or a old lady to beat up.

That's vile.


No really, I care about your feelings. rolleyes

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That's exactly why I replied in the vile manner I did. He gets what he gives from me.


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mgh888 #1899915 11/06/21 01:49 PM
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Originally Posted by mgh888
I read the post as implying that no-one has credibility when talking about racism and that no good can come from talking about racism and that we shouldn't because 'the Left' often point to how the GOP uses racist troupes in their politics. I'll be honest and say I don't know Biden's history of giving a Eulogy to a Klansman or using the N word. But Biden is most definitely not the most racist politician out there. That's not true. And while he's entitled to an opinion - I think many people have a lot of insight and are well placed to comment on racism.

I suspect the problem is that the conversation is so old - and there are people so dug into a belief that the conversation gets distilled to a few sharp, barbed comments. I know Clem at one time stated he's taken so much time and effort to explain racial issues - and got no-where but trolled on occasion, he stopped trying (on this board). I understand that. When you see trolling and baiting posts constantly in response to constructive discussion, it's real easy to say 'screw it' and not take the time to write well-constructed posts. I know I am guilty and do that too.

We all trigger each other in here daily. Both sides. I haven't seen an honest discussion since early 2016 in here. Since then, it's all been tribal politics, poo slinging, and hate. The escalation has been gradual but steady, friends vs. friends, family vs. family, neighbor vs. neighbor... like we all have a political blood lust of some sort. You can try to smooth it over, which might last a hot minute, but then it's right back. So, we've devolved to a political cancel culture on both sides there doesn't seem to be any quick fix because we can't even agree on reality, facts, or actual events like January 6th even being acknowledged... How does anyone do or say anything productive that might heal the rift in an atmosphere designed to destroy anyone who speaks out?

Last edited by OldColdDawg; 11/06/21 01:54 PM.

No really, I care about your feelings. rolleyes

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EveDawg #1899916 11/06/21 02:02 PM
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Originally Posted by EveDawg
Originally Posted by OldColdDawg


11 white people 1 black on the jury. smh.

They should have a more balanced jury. But they don't so I look at it this way: There is no way in hell these guys are getting off no guilty. So it will build race relations when the white jury votes guilty.

It only takes one juror that thinks like them for them to get off. The judge in the Rittenhouse trial has already replaced one juror for making a joke about Jacob Blake. Odds are high that there is at least one on this jury that shares the defendants political and racial views. Of course, nobody can prove that until it rears its head and by that time it will be too late to prevent the damage.


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Originally Posted by OldColdDawg
Originally Posted by Dawg Duty
Originally Posted by PortlandDawg
Swish, OCD, Pit…. Look up Brandolini’s Law.

Arguing with the likes of Dawg Duty, Super, and their ilk is a futile waste of your energy.

Don't you have a business to burn or a old lady to beat up.

That's vile.

Find me a post of his that isn’t. Duty brings nothing to the message board of substance or quality. He’s a perfect example of a donny supporter. Vile and hollow.


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Originally Posted by Ballpeen
The lawyers pick the jury, or should I say eliminate potential jurors.
But how does the jury pool get selected? As I understand the process, potential jurors are selected based on voting records or drivers licenses or some other "random" method which should be similar to the local population. Then a larger group is called to jury duty, you report (or get out of it) and you sit there and wait, then they come get a subset of the group, take you into a courtroom, explain whats about to happen, then they start questioning and eliminating. So yes, lawyers ultimately select the jury, but how do those first 2 steps get handled? Is it all just some random process of picking numbers?

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Virginia's Winsome Sears says voters are 'tired of the Black against White'
Winsome Sears is the first Black woman to hold statewide office in Virginia

Virginia Lieutenant Governor-elect Winsome Sears, the first Black woman elected to statewide office in Virginia's history, attributed her victory to voters being sick of seeing Black and White people pitted against each other.

"They’re tired of the Black against White and the Asian against Latino," Winsome said of those who voted for her during a "Fox News Sunday" interview. "They’re tired of it, and they’re tired of politicians who won’t let the wounds of the past heal."

"I’ve just always assumed whatever room I’m in, I belong. Whatever I want to pursue, it’s mine for the taking," Winsome told host Chris Wallace. "Nobody is denying that we don’t want to hear all the history, least of all me. I certainly don’t want the sins of the past to be repeated. We don’t have to tear one person down in order to build another up. That’s no way to be. That’s not America."

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/virginia-winsome-sears-voters-tired-black-against-white

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A politician said something. Film at 11:00.


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Originally Posted by OldColdDawg
Originally Posted by EveDawg
Originally Posted by OldColdDawg


11 white people 1 black on the jury. smh.

They should have a more balanced jury. But they don't so I look at it this way: There is no way in hell these guys are getting off no guilty. So it will build race relations when the white jury votes guilty.

It only takes one juror that thinks like them for them to get off. The judge in the Rittenhouse trial has already replaced one juror for making a joke about Jacob Blake. Odds are high that there is at least one on this jury that shares the defendants political and racial views. Of course, nobody can prove that until it rears its head and by that time it will be too late to prevent the damage.

Oh, Is this the O.J. Simpson, murder trial all over again??
Look up the racial make up of the Jurors of the OJ trial, their was only one white juror at all.
Wait a second, can only people of the same race be allowed to be jurrors? That seems racist. When are we going to hold black people to accept the decisions of white Jurrors, I mean the "verdict" of white jurrors, without the racism of denying them because they are white,
the way we have to expect white people to accept the verdict of black jurrors in the OJ Simpson trial
without demanding that they have an all white Jury in the OJ simpson trial?
Nicole Brown Simpson, and Ron Goldman deserve better.
We cannot continue to allow black people, to have this "us only" attitude in Amerca. Black people need to be demanded to have multiculturalism, and that incudes the acceptance of jururs verdicts, no matter the racial make up of the jury,
because that is what multiculturalism is, it's about loving white people, and loving the white jurors, and anyone who can't do that...


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j/c

I don't get this. I didn't realize it could be this way. Link first: https://www.yahoo.com/news/jury-begin-deliberations-kyle-rittenhouse-050136183.html

From that, I have this: "The case went to the anonymous, 12-member jury after Rittenhouse himself, in an unusual move, was allowed by Judge Bruce Schroeder to draw the numbered slips of paper from a raffle drum that determined which of the 18 people who sat in judgment during the trial would decide his fate and which ones would be dismissed as alternates.

That task is usually performed by a court clerk, not the defendant."

First, I thought the 'jury' was predetermined, and alternates were also allowed to sit in on the trial. (allowed, as in, had to) So the actual 12 that will decide were unknowns? I mean, known, as they were sitting there for the trial, but no one knew who the final 12 would be?


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Yep arch, AND my understanding as of now is that out of the 18, one is a POC, and the rest are white. Yet the population of Kenosha is approximately 29.5% POC (Black and Latino). So, for a true jury of his peers, there should have been about 6 POC on the jury of 18.

"White alone, not Hispanic or Latino, percent 66.1%"

https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/kenoshacitywisconsin/PST045219

Wisconsin’s not so white anymore – and in some rapidly diversifying cities like Kenosha there’s fear and unrest
Kenosha, Wisconsin, became a national byword for racial unrest when protests in August erupted in violence.

After local police shot a Black man, Jacob Blake, seven times in the back, leaving him paralyzed, furious residents took to the streets expressing years of pent-up anger. During nighttime hours, fires were set.

Law enforcement’s response only escalated the situation. One night an armed white militia showed up, and Kenosha officers thanked them. Then, at 11:45 p.m. on Aug. 25, a white teenager allegedly fired an assault rifle during a confrontation, killing two protesters and wounding one.

Most anti-racism demonstrations across the United States last summer were fairly peaceful.

What went wrong in Kenosha?

Our research on Wisconsin’s changing demographics suggests racial integration and political polarization are a combustible combination in Kenosha.

Diversifying Wisconsin

Nationally, Wisconsin is generally perceived as white and working class. Historically that was largely true, and the state is still 81% white.

But it’s changing fast.

In 1980 Wisconsin had 25 small cities – those with populations of 20,000 to 100,000. Only three had populations that were more than 1% Black, and only two were more than 1% Asian American, according to census data. Latinos comprised 1% or more of the population in eight small Wisconsin cities in 1980.

By 2010, the number of small cities in Wisconsin had grown to 35, and few were all white anymore. Nine were more than 5% Black, 11 were more than 5% Asian and 19 of the 35 were more than 5% Latino.

These demographic shifts were greatest early this century. Between 2000 and 2010, Black people as a percentage of total population more than doubled in a dozen of Wisconsin’s small cities. In Milwaukee – the state’s largest, most diverse city – white people now comprise just 44% of the population.

Today Kenosha is one of Wisconsin’s most racially diverse small cities. Black people make up about 11.5% of its 100,000 people, and Latinos make up nearly 18%, according to 2018 population estimates. Only three similarly sized Wisconsin cities have more people of color.

‘You protect and serve who?’

Historically, white Americans have reacted with suspicion and hostility to the sudden arrival of Black people and immigrants to their neighborhoods.

Integration is an American ideal – a high-minded recipe for combating racism that dates back to the 1950s. But research shows that even in multicultural communities, social segregation among community members of different racial backgrounds persists.

White residents who feel threatened may turn to law enforcement, as demonstrated in numerous recent nationwide incidents of white people reporting Black people to the police for barbecuing, selling lemonade and jogging in predominantly white neighborhoods.

To understand how this tension plays out in Wisconsin, the Justice Lab at the University of Wisconsin, where we work as sociological researchers, has been conducting interviews with police officers, residents and politicians in cities that have undergone such demographic and social changes.

University ethics requirements prohibit us from revealing identifying details about our study participants. But our work finds that Black residents of small cities like Kenosha, as in other large cities, overwhelmingly fear police.

“I’m afraid … they might come to the car, and just for some reason be scared that day, and any sudden movement they’ll think I’m holding a gun,” said a 29-year-old Black father we’ll call Dennis.

“You protect and serve who? Not me or mine,” he said. “Not none of us.”

A 2020 Pew Research survey found that 64% of Black American men say they’ve been unfairly stopped by the police.

‘They’re looking to stop you for anything’

In Kenosha, the police department grew as its community of color did.

In 2007 Kenosha Police Department had 192 members. In 2013 it had grown to 198, according to Law Enforcement Management And Administrative Statistics data, an expansion of 3.1%. That growth exceeds the city’s overall population growth during the same period, which was 2.6%.

Most Wisconsin police departments were shrinking at that time, even as the state’s population grew. According to the Kenosha Police Department’s 2014 annual report, the force needed more officers to meet growing demand for its services.

But violent crime in Kenosha has remained fairly stable for decades. Since 1990, the city has had three to five murders a year, according to the FBI’s Uniform Crime Report. And property crimes actually decreased by more than 25% between 2007 and 2013. Yet during the same period, the Kenosha police budget rose from about $23 million to nearly $27 million.

Scores of studies from across the U.S. have documented this phenomenon: When Black and Latino populations rise, white residents tend to respond by increasing the funding and size of local law enforcement agencies, independent of crime rate. Social scientists call this the “racial threat hypothesis.”

Putting more officers on the street to do community policing when there’s no rise in crime creates the potential for more routine interactions between police and civilians – and for people of color, more potential conflict.

Leslie, a mother of two sons, told us that police once stopped her son and his friend while driving one night, “talking about his license plates don’t match his car.”

Leslie said she knows that’s not true because she and her husband had recently bought the car for their son and registered it in their name.

Her perception: “No, you pulled him over because you were hoping that you had two black kids and when they rolled down the windows you would smell weed,” she said.

Leslie advises Black acquaintances not to drive into nearby largely white neighboring cities.

“They’re looking to stop you for anything,” she says of police.

Police and politics

Racial tension may be exacerbated when a city is also marked by strong partisan divisions, our research suggests.

Kenosha has been solidly Democratic for several decades, but about a third of its residents vote Republican, according to state election records. Republicans and Democrats tend to live side by side, not segregated by partisan affiliation, community data shows.

That setup can pit neighbor against neighbor after events like police killings. Republicans are far less likely than Democrats to see racial bias in law enforcement as a problem, according to Pew Research.

Donald Trump has stoked such tensions throughout his presidency, vilifying Black Lives Matter and exalting law enforcement. The day before the 2020 election, he held a rally in Kenosha, declaring he had brought “law and order” to the city.

Trump narrowly lost Wisconsin, including Kenosha. Joe Biden’s presidency will change the national debate on police violence, but it won’t stop the seismic demographic shifts creating unease in Wisconsin’s small cities.

https://theconversation.com/wiscons...ke-kenosha-theres-fear-and-unrest-148044


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For any of you wondering what white privilege look like ...


A New York judge said it was inappropriate to imprison a 20-year-old who admitted to sexual abuse, including rape, of teens
Bill Bostock
Thu, November 18, 2021, 8:40 AM·3 min read



Christopher Belter, 20, admitted to sexual abuse, including rape, of teenagers in 2019.

A judge gave him eight years' probation Tuesday and said prison "isn't appropriate," ABC7 reported.

"He is privileged. He comes from money. He is white," the attorney of an accuser said.

A New York judge said it was "inappropriate" to imprison a 20-year-old man who pleaded guilty to raping at least one teen girl several years ago, ABC7 reported.

In late 2018, Christopher Belter, then 17, was charged with first degree rape, third degree rape, and sexual abuse involving four girls aged between 15 and 16 at his family home in Lewiston, near Niagara Falls, between January 2017 and August 2018, ABC7 reported.

State police previously said that Belter's family considered the house a "party house," and accused Belter's family and family friends of providing guests, including minors, with alcohol and marijuana, Buffalo News reported.

In 2019, Belter pleaded guilty to two counts of second degree sex abuse, third degree attempted abuse, and third degree rape, and received a sentence of two years' interim probation, ABC7 reported. The outlet previously reported that Belter confessed to multiple counts of rape, but it was unclear what specific charges he pleaded guilty to or how many of the girls this pertained to.

On Tuesday, Niagara County Judge Matthew Murphy concluded that Belter, now 20, should be sentenced to eight years of probation and must register as a sex offender, ABC 7 said.

Belter was given no prison time.

"I agonized — I'm not ashamed to say that I actually prayed over what is the appropriate sentence in this case. because there was great pain. There was great harm — there were multiple crimes committed in the case," Murphy said, ABC7 reported.

"It seems to me that a sentence that involves incarceration or partial incarceration isn't appropriate, so I am going to sentence you to probation."

Murphy had previously said that one of the teenage girls gave a "gripping statement" describing how she had to focus on a plant to distract herself while being raped, Buffalo News said.

"During the rape, he told her to stop being such a baby. She focused her attention on the leaves of the plant as she cried during the attack," Murphy said of the statement, according to Buffalo News.

"The Defendant told her that, if she stopped resisting, it wouldn't hurt as much."

Eileen Buckley, an ABC7 reporter, tweeted Tuesday that an accuser sitting in the courtroom was "clearly upset by [the] sentence."

Steve Cohen, an attorney for one of the accusers, told ABC7: "I am deeply, deeply disappointed. I expected a different outcome today."

"He is privileged. He comes from money. He is white. He was sentenced as an adult, appropriately — for an adult to get away with these crimes is unjust," Cohen said of Belter.

As part of his probation, Belter has to live with parents, have no contact with anyone under 18, conduct no overnight trips, and submit to random polygraph and drug tests, ABC7 reported.


https://www.yahoo.com/news/york-judge-said-inappropriate-imprison-134012260.html

Last edited by Jester; 11/19/21 03:49 PM.

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I saw this yesterday and it's sickening. For anyone who believes there isn't two standards between "Just Us" and justice, here's all the evidence one needs to see.


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Well, I'm glad he prayed on it… rolleyes


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I want all the conservatives to answer this question:

If that dude looked like me, would he only get probation?


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I can't even begin to wrap my head around that sentencing.


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Originally Posted by Swish
I want all the conservatives to answer this question:

If that dude looked like me, would he only get probation?
Originally Posted by Swish
I want all the conservatives to answer this question:

If that dude looked like me, would he only get probation?

I believe the two America's are $$$ privileged and not color privileged. This kid wrongly got probation because of $$$ and not race. It is wrong. Completely wrong. If Kyle Rittenhouse was black and was attacked by white rioters and fired his weapon in self defense I would have felt the same way. He would have had the right to defend himself once attacked. If you don't want to get shot don't attack people. Rioters don't get special privilege just because they are involved in a protest. Peaceful protest is peaceful not violent.


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Swish #1905389 11/22/21 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Swish
I want all the conservatives to answer this question:

If that dude looked like me, would he only get probation?

No. That was a total miscarriage of justice.


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I won't disagree with you that the overriding factor is money. I do feel it's hard to believe that all are color blind though. The judge agreed to this sentence. They have the final say. Your contention seems to be that the judge would have made the same plea agreement with a black defendant with wealth to hire the same defense team. I don't know anything about this judge or his history so I can't say. But I certainly do not agree that the same plea agreement would have ended up the same way if that defendant were black.

I've never seen a black defendant get probation due to "Affuenza" either.

Use of ‘Affluenza’ Didn’t Begin With Ethan Couch Case

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/30/us/use-of-affluenza-didnt-begin-with-ethan-couch-case.html


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Originally Posted by Swish
I want all the conservatives to answer this question:

If that dude looked like me, would he only get probation?


Let me ask OJ wink


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Swish #1905581 11/23/21 07:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Swish
I want all the conservatives to answer this question:

If that dude looked like me, would he only get probation?

maybe not, but you need to look in the mirror.

Just kidding.

Who knows?

It's easy to pick out a case where all we know is what is written in a few paragraphs. A rape trial is more than a few paragraphs long, so we don't know all the information that went in to what seems like a slap on the wrist.

I am not trying to be obtuse, but it's true.

To answer your question....probably not just as it would be for most people. I don't think the race of the person was much of a determining factor and don't think this is a good comparison to point out any racial divide.


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I posted a link that shows several cases with the use of the affluenza defense working. Here's another one....

Affluenza Epidemic Rampant in Our Nation’s Criminal Justice System

https://www.prisonlegalnews.org/new...ant-our-nations-criminal-justice-system/

It includes cases like that of Robert H. Richards IV who was found guilty of raping his own three year old daughter and got probation. Richards, who stands 6”4’ and weighs over 250 pounds, is the grandson of Irenee du Pont – the patriarch of the du Pont family, which made its fortune in the chemical industry. He resides in a 5,800-square-foot mansion and owns a home in an elite North Shores neighborhood. Both residences are courtesy of his family trust fund.

There are other examples in the article. I have yet to see one that includes a wealthy black person. I don't question that a few may exist. But to pretend it's on equal footing isn't something I suspect you'll attempt to do.


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No really, I care about your feelings. rolleyes

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Your link requires a subscription. I clicked on it to see what they actually did to the house.


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This isn't from the same source but it gives you an idea. Not crazy about the actual source of the article however. Yet after reading it I would say it gives an outline of the facts.

A black couple 'erased themselves' from their home, its value went up

A black couple from California are suing a real estate firm after their home went up in value by 50 per cent when they had a white friend pose as its owner.

Paul, 45, and Tenisha Tate Austin, 42, who are black and from Marin City near San Francisco had their home valued at $989,000 in January, having purchased it in 2016 for $550,000.

Following a second appraisal from a different lender the following month, they were shocked to find the home's value increased by a further $500,000. The couple credit 'whitewashing' the home of all signs of its owners' identity, and asking a Caucasian friend to pose as Tenisha for the second viewing as the reason for the jump in value.

They have now filed a fair housing lawsuit against appraiser Janette Miller, her firm Miller and Perotti Real Estate Appraisers, Inc. and national appraisal company AMC Links, LLC in the $487,500 discrepancy over the two valuations they received.

AMC were tasked with handling the couple's valuation, and were also behind the second valuation which saw a dramatic increase in price, the lawsuit alleges.

Paul and Tenisha couple say the January estate agent was an older white woman - Miller - who used coded phrases like 'Marin City is a distinct area' when she valued the property which they believe was race-related.

The couple complained to their lender describing as 'a slap in the face' before the pair were finally approved for a second appraisal.

This time, the pair decided to run an experiment to see if their suspicions were right and got a white friend to pose as the owner.

They hid photographs and art work and replace it with their friend's photos.

'We had a conversation with one of our white friends, and she said. 'No problem. I'll be Tenisha. I'll bring over some pictures of my family'. She made our home look like it belonged to her.'

'There are implications to our ability to create generational wealth or passing things on if our houses appraise for 50% less,' Tenisha added.

The couple carried out $400,000 of significant renovations in the five years since buying the home including a brand new floor which added 1,000 sq feet of space, a fireplace, new appliances and an outdoor deck.

But when it came to listing the property they found it had increased in the home's value by just 10 per cent.

Paul believed the low figure was as a result of the color of their skin.

'I read the appraisal, I looked at the number I was like, 'This is unbelievable'', wife, Tenisha said to ABC7.

The couple are alleging racial bias and are seeking a jury trial and financial damages.

'We did our homework,' Austin told the Reparations Task Force in a panel on the racial wealth gap in October, as reported by the San Francisco Chronicle.

'We believe the white lady wanted to devalue our property because we are in a black neighborhood, and the home belonged to a black family.

'My stomach hurt, my head hurt, just because of what we went through,' Austin said. 'I don't wish that on anybody.

'I want to see a change. I don’t want to see my children have to deal with this,' he added.

Marin City, where the Austins live, is a historically black community.

'There are definitely things about this complaint that are uniquely strong,' said an attorney for the couple, Julia Howard-Gibbon, to the Chronicle. 'They erased themselves from the home, essentially.'

Attorneys for the Austins note: 'Marin City has a long history of undervaluation based on stereotypes, redlining, discriminatory appraisal standards, and actual or perceived racial demographics.'

Jessica Lautz, from the National Association of Realtors' vice president of demographics and behavioral insights, said the couple's case was not unusual.

'We know discrimination is in nearly every aspect of that home buying process,' she said. 'We need to be addressing it as an industry.'

Black home ownership is far less across the country with only 44 percent of black Americans owning their home in 2020 compared to 74 percent for white Americans according to areal estate firm Redfin.

In the state of California, only 34 percent of black Californians own a home, according to the National Association of Realtors.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/oth...-their-home-its-value-went-up/ar-AARuVSM

Much more available at the link.


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I'll be honest, I was half-expecting to see something like "we also just happened to paint the family room and finally took down that awful [insert weird home feature here] between the 2 valuations". The article does seem to indicate that the only thing they changed was the family photos and person.


There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.

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i have a new perspective on race relations. i traded in my M6 for an BMW X5M. now i got mentor/painesville cops in their ford explorers trying me at the light. i love this state, awesome race relations.


“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”

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Sorry, I'm trying to understand. What are they doing to you at the light?


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Originally Posted by dawglover05
Sorry, I'm trying to understand. What are they doing to you at the light?

revving the engines at 1 in the morning. mentor cops cool as hell up here.


“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”

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That is actually far different than what I was expecting.


Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown

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yea bro ever since i got the hell up out of oklahoma and back up north, cops have been super chill. i cant speak for everyone but as ive said before, when i get pulled over up here, i KNOW why i got pulled over. im just hoping the last person that the cop pulled over didnt tick them off prior to stopping me. but some of the mentor cops know me because of the M6, and when they saw the X5M they knew it was me. always asking me about the ride and stuff, cause some of them guys got hellcat chargers camaro SS's at the crib and such. im far more worried about the aggressive minivan drivers or teenagers texting and driving than i am about the cops.

wish i could make that claim across the entire country. but ya know...


“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”

- Theodore Roosevelt
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Originally Posted by Swish
i have a new perspective on race relations. i traded in my M6 for an BMW X5M. now i got mentor/painesville cops in their ford explorers trying me at the light. i love this state, awesome race relations.
And then?

Did you light 'em up, or what?? naughtydevil


HERE WE GO BROWNIES! HERE WE GO!!
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They actually both got beaten out by Jed Wills and Hollywood Higgins who pulled up next to them.


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Originally Posted by oobernoober
Your link requires a subscription. I clicked on it to see what they actually did to the house.

A Black couple ‘erased themselves’ from their home to see if the appraised value would go up. It did — by nearly $500,000

Paul Austin thought things were going well when the appraiser came to his Marin City home last January.

The appraiser complimented the views of the San Francisco Bay, and he was sure to point out all the improvements, Austin recalled at an Oct. 13 meeting of a state reparations task force. So he and his wife Tenisha Tate-Austin were shocked when the appraisal valued their home at $995,000 — nearly half-a-million dollars less than another appraisal 10 months earlier.

The couple, who are Black, got a second opinion last February. This time, they asked a white friend named Jan to sit at the kitchen island and pretend to be the homeowner. They also “whitewashed” their home by hiding art and family photos. That appraiser said their house was worth $1,482,500.

The $487,500 discrepancy between the two 2020 appraisals pushed the couple to file a fair housing lawsuit in federal district court this week against appraiser Janette Miller, her firm Miller and Perotti Real Estate Appraisers Inc., and national appraisal company AMC Links LLC. It’s the latest escalation in a series of similar cases of alleged racial bias in the home appraisal process as California property owners move to reap financial gains from record home prices.

“We did our homework,” Austin told the Reparations Task Force in a panel on the racial wealth gap in October. “We believe the white lady wanted to devalue our property because we are in a Black neighborhood, and the home belonged to a Black family.”

Miller’s firm and AMC Links did not respond to requests for comment.

Researchers at the Brookings Institution have found that owner-occupied homes in majority-Black U.S. neighborhoods are undervalued by an average $48,000 per home, representing some $156 billion in cumulative losses — a dynamic that has prompted calls for policy reform to automate more of the home valuation process and otherwise minimize bias. Some in the appraisal industry, meanwhile, contend that the process is inherently subjective and driven by extreme pressure to increase home values, opening appraisers to unfair personal liability when homeowners disagree with the results.

In the case of Austin and Tate-Austin, the large appraisal discrepancy illustrates how even Bay Area residents able to purchase a home in one of the nation’s most expensive real estate markets can be shut out of some of the massive wealth generated by increasing property values.

The Austin family bought the home in late 2016 for $550,000, according to the lawsuit, and Austin said they spent around $400,000 expanding the footprint, renovating the interior and adding features like an outdoor deck and an in-law unit with bay views. With the higher second appraisal designed to take race out of the equation, the home is now worth nearly triple what they paid five years ago.

“There are definitely things about this complaint that are uniquely strong,” said the couple’s attorney, Julia Howard-Gibbon of Fair Housing Advocates of Northern California. “They erased themselves from the home, essentially.”

Though similar cases with extreme differences in appraisal values have also surfaced in Oakland, Stockton and other California cities with large Black populations, the new lawsuit revolves around the North Bay’s unique racial dynamics.

Austin knows firsthand that Marin City, an unincorporated area wedged between affluent Sausalito and Mill Valley, grew out of the pre-World War II migration of tens of thousands of Black workers seeking employment around the Sausalito shipyard. His own grandparents lived and worked there.

Though they saved money to move to other areas of Marin County, Austin said in his October testimony, they were unable to buy property elsewhere because of exclusionary practices like discriminatory bank lending and racial covenants.

The fact that his family encountered what seemed like a new version of the same old problem more than a half-century later, he said at the October meeting, made him feel ill.

“My stomach hurt, my head hurt, just because of what we went through,” Austin said. “I don’t wish that on anybody.”

Attorneys for the couple argue in the new lawsuit that “Marin City has a long history of undervaluation based on stereotypes, redlining, discriminatory appraisal standards, and actual or perceived racial demographics.”

By focusing the first appraisal only on the small number of homes sold in the immediate Marin City area, Howard-Gibbon said the appraiser “built an invisible barrier” around the home by comparing it only to other sale prices in a long-marginalized area — a result she called “recycled discrimination.”

The plaintiffs are seeking a jury trial, financial damages and a court order directing the appraisers to take action to ensure the issues in the complaint are not repeated.

Austin said at the October meeting that he is also focused on ongoing issues like recent desegregation orders issued for Marin County schools. He still can’t help but notice that neighbors’ homes on smaller lots have already crept up to values around $1.6 or $1.7 million.

“Yes, I do want to see a change,” Austin said. “I don’t want to see my children have to deal with this.”


https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/Black-Marin-City-couple-sues-appraiser-for-16672840.php

There you go.


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Originally Posted by Swish
yea bro ever since i got the hell up out of oklahoma and back up north, cops have been super chill. i cant speak for everyone but as ive said before, when i get pulled over up here, i KNOW why i got pulled over. im just hoping the last person that the cop pulled over didnt tick them off prior to stopping me. but some of the mentor cops know me because of the M6, and when they saw the X5M they knew it was me. always asking me about the ride and stuff, cause some of them guys got hellcat chargers camaro SS's at the crib and such. im far more worried about the aggressive minivan drivers or teenagers texting and driving than i am about the cops.

wish i could make that claim across the entire country. but ya know...

Yep. It would be a different story if you planned a trip to trace the stops of the underground railroad and or the 60s events of the civil rights movement in your new ride.


No really, I care about your feelings. rolleyes

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Originally Posted by dawglover05
They actually both got beaten out by Jed Wills and Hollywood Higgins who pulled up next to them.

NOPE. But Schwartz beat him on foot in the quarter... wink


No really, I care about your feelings. rolleyes

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I am familiar with the "white washing" effect in real estate. My only thoughts on this article are that they had an appraisal done with their art and their family photos and it seems to have been the right ballpark for value... then they had another one done with their art and photos and it was significantly less... then a 3rd one with a white woman and white family photos and it went back up.... so how do we know the second appraiser wasn't just wrong or incompetent? They had 2 appraisals done that were pretty close, one with black family photos, one with white family photos?

And second, an appraisal value is just an estimation, at the end of the day, something is "worth' whatever somebody else is willing to pay for it. So the only true assessment of value would be determined if they sold it, what would they get for it compared to other homes in the neighborhood?

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How can the homeowners be sure? I don't know about you, but I can usually tell if I'm dealing with a bigot. Sometimes I'm surprised to find out somebody I know or work with is a bigot, but it's rare. Bigots have tells.


No really, I care about your feelings. rolleyes

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Originally Posted by Swish
i have a new perspective on race relations. i traded in my M6 for an BMW X5M. now i got mentor/painesville cops in their ford explorers trying me at the light. i love this state, awesome race relations.

Congrats on your new ride!


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