DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Baker Mayfield continued

I concur. I suspect Cousins might be the Browns QB next year if Mayfield isn't in Cleveland (I'm assuming Minnesota's going to cut him since he refused to restructure his $35 million guaranteed). Still though, it's Andrew Berry's job to do his due dilligence on any potential QB upgrade from Mayfield. That's his job after all, is it not?

Derek Carr would be another name to keep an eye on should Berry be looking to make a move.

If the Raiders are looking to rebuild, they'd have $0 in dead cap space by moving on from Carr.

Huge decisions for Berry this offseason. The window is open now and could close fast.

Browns miss the playoffs next year and I begin to worry if Haslam can resist meddling and making changes.

Pittsburgh might also be kicking the tires on Carr if he's available as well - Carr is solid as a QB. And with the current team that the Browns have, aside for a need for a #1 WR and some DT/linebacker depth, solid might be good enough to get you in contention for the division and a playoff berth (injuries not withstanding). He would also cost less than say a Russell Wilson would as well.

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Rishuz, this isn’t directed at you. Just sharing my thoughts on this tidbit.

Who would want him? What kind of contract does he think he’d get if he requested a trade now? I think there are guys like Jimmy Garrapolo and Derrick Carr who could perform better than Baker.

-Look at much better Odell has looked in LA.

- We won at least 4 games this year despite Bakers poor play. - Chicago, Minny, Detroit, Baltimore 2, Houston.

- We lost 5 games this year on account of Baker’s poor play. NE, GB, Pitt, Baltimore 1, Arizona.

- Baker has proven that he can’t play in the clutch.

- He’s looked good in 3 games: KC, LA, Cincy.

- He’s surrounded by a good oline, solid running game, solid tight ends, and a former pro bowl wr.

I want it to work out for him here so that we’re not qb-less again, but I have no reason to believe that he’s an above-average qb. He certainly isn’t worth a big contract at this point.

I agree. I think Baker's camp is going to be disappointed.

However, don't sleep on NO. I think Payton liked Mayfield coming out and has the ego to believe he could get the most out of him. Gets Baker closer to Texas too.

I think Houston could be a possibility as well.

NO and HOU could certainly be possibilities in a trade scenario.

I'd add Carolina and WFT as other possibilities. Both could choose to get their QB via the draft, however.

Right now, I would rather have Allen... or I would have rather waited and tanked for Burrows... I would even give up Myles Garrett (as much as I like him) to have taken Patrick Mahomes.... in 2005 I would have rather taken Aaron Rodgers at 3 than Braylon Edwards... Back in 1995 I wish the City of Cleveland would have raised $20 million to give to Belichick to not go to Baltimore or accept another job until we had our team back and he could have coached here...

But none of those things happened so I guess I don't understand the point of this game.

We have Baker, we have limited options to move on from Baker... we have a coach, staff, and GM who have to make a decision on what Baker can be if he gets the surgery and comes back healthy. and if they decide he's not the future here, then they have to figure out which one of the limited options they would like to pursue... we have a FO that has to determine how much of our offensive woes are Baker and how much are Stefanski/Van Pelt.. we still have a lot of talent, we have some gaps.. we will see which direction we decide to go.

I seriously doubt that Sean Payton would let go of tayson hill for baker, especially due to the fact that they still have a shot at a wildcard birth.

Watson or Wilson.

I mean damn. I dunno how many gm’s right now would take even a healthy baker over hill, hurts, and even fields.

Baker is playing with one arm.

He will make yall eat crow next season.

He should play better next year, yes. The question I have is this - if Pittsburgh makes a move and gets a Wilson, or a Watson, or a Rodgers etc, wouldn't that potentially force the Browns hand with regards to the QB position? That's the worst possible thing that could potentially happen IMO.

I am not so much sticking up for Baker, but the worst-case scenario would be letting Baker go and him go on to be one of the best QB's in the league. That would cement us as Loserville with loser fans.

You can apply the blame to Mayfield all you want but that will not fix the problem the Browns face. Six of the Browns current 8 losses have been by 6 or less points. In every one of those games the Browns had the opportunity to win it on a final drive or close it out for the win. As a team, they failed in each and every instance.

Now the easy way out is to make the QB the fall guy. People are quick to point out Baker's flaws and he deserves some of the blame but if you really watched those six games there were other issues much greater IMHO that must be
addressed or it won't matter who's standing under center for the Cleveland Browns.

As a QB, you don't have to be lights out every damn game. The important factor is stay competitive and give yourself a shot at winning. Yesterday - PHI got an interception with 24 seconds left to secure a win over WAS, the LAR (Stafford) produced a 3:33 drive and scored with 1:01 left to beat BAL, Brady led TBB on a 93 yd drive in 1:57 to score and defeat the Jets with 21 seconds left on the clock, Carr led the LVR on a 60 yd 11 play drive in the final 1:56 for a 33 yd FG to beat the Colts as time expired, Mahomes and KCC put together a 12 play 5:43 drive for a FG to tie the game with 6:01 left only to have Burrows and CIN produce a 20 play drive for a game winning FG of 20 yds to win on the game's final play, and finally - after the Cowboys scored to pull themselves within 3 of ARI - Murray led ARI on a 11 play 52 yd drive to close out the game with Dallas never seeing the ball again.

Almost in every instance, the before mentioned are still in the playoff hunt and except for PHI have the ability on any given Sunday to score quickly or close out games where you never see the ball again. Add in Rodgers, Prescott, Herbert and normally a Wilson and you have about 10 QB's that you absolutely don't want to have the ball with 2-3 minutes left in a close game.

Every one of these guys (except for Murray and Wilson who missed games due to injury) have over 4,000 yds passing this year. In fact, of the top 10 passers, every single one of them are either in the playoffs or still in the hunt with 1 week to go. Baker on the other hand has thrown for only 2,825 yds rated 25th and 24th in attempts with 380. Of the top 10 rushers in the league, 6 won't be in the playoffs. 7 of the top 10 passers for yardage are on pace to win their division - that's 7 of the 8 division winners. 10 of the 10 are still in the playoff hunt. Mayfield is 133 attempts and counting less than the lowest amount of attempts by a top 10 passer.

Stefanski and the Browns scheme is all wrong for today's NFL. Now you might like the fact that Chubb and Hunt are the faces of the franchise with Stefanski's run first offense but Cincy won the division with a second year QB passing for almost 2,000 more yards than Mayfield and "YES" they also have a 1,000 yard rusher. For those nay sayers that think we can court a Rodgers, Wilson, Watson or Carr to Cleveland you better think again because no QB is coming anywhere near Cleveland to throw 150 less passes a season. No receiver worth his salt would ever consider coming to Cleveland after they've watched Hooper, OBJ, and Landry get their targets cut in half. The Browns are not an offensive minded team and to tell you the truth, I don't believe they even practice 2-minute drills or plays to score quick. They are way to disorganized when they get in those situations to make me feel otherwise. Thats a coaching problem and I'm confident that it will not change whether Baker's healthy or not. Continually playing a 3-TE offense does not build confidence in your QB either. Baker's last year in Cleveland will be 2022 unless it does change. The offense is not set up to make Baker successful. The offense is set to run the ball. Until that mindset changes, Cleveland will have a below average QB as long as Stefanski is calling the shots.

Keep in mind that Chubb and Hunt missed multiple games this year. Now some will say that is the reason for the poor season. I say it shines a bigger light on the issue because any normal thinking person would think that the passing attempts would go up during that injury period. Baker hasn't thrown for over 250 yds since week 5. Baker only has 2 games the entire season where he's thrown for over 250 yds, week 1 and 5. To take this a little further, in 2019 Baker had 534 pass attempts. Enter Stefanski in 2020 and Baker's attempts dropped to 486, a reduction of 48 pass attempts. In 2021, it's glaring as currently Bakers has 380 attempts which as on now is 154 less attempts than 2019. in yardage, Baker is 700 plus yards behind last year and over a 1,000 less than 2019. Call it what you want, Stefanski has turned Baker from a gun slinger into a game manager and his run first at all costs is going to set the franchise back a decade not to mention a new and disheartening search for another franchise QB.

Stay tuned.......

When a QB does not make his team in any way or form a better team, its time to move on.

I get a feeling nobody on the team supports or likes Baker. He requires too much maintenance for the player he is. We can get same or better play with much less drama from other QB's.

Time to move on, and like in most similar situations, the sooner the better.

I am convinced (have been for a good while) that we need a ball control, running QB.

That would be the perfect complement to the Stefanski offense. I'd love if we could get Tyler Huntley, but the Ravens can still control where he might go.

You make some good points, but it seems like you are dismissing a lot of losses in which Baker played poorly by saying other things went wrong and we could have won in spite of him. That is not what we are looking for.
He was badly hurt and he has poor receivers. That’s fair. But he also made terrible decisions. We now have a potentially great defense, but on offense (which a year ago was our strength), we are behind where we were a year ago on OL, at RB, at WR, at TE and most of all, at QB. We can like Baker and still recognize that this is a problem.

After reading your long post basically what you're saying is the NFL is a passing league and the Browns need to open up the offense and pass more next season. OBJ seems to be fitting in nicely in L. A., maybe the Browns should've listened to him instead of letting him go. I agree with you.

I watched some of Baker's Oklahoma highlights. He looked like a different QB back then. I can see why he was the #1 overall pick and why the Browns took him. I believe when healthy, he can be the QB he was at Oklahoma. If Berry gets Baker a true #1 playmaking WR, be it the draft or FA, then you will see a much-improved Baker.

Swapping QB's doesn't fix the issue we have no one to throw the ball to....

To this, better QB play and we make the playoffs. Better QB play the Steelers make the playoffs. Better QB play the Bills are the #1 seed. Better QB play the Ravens easily win the division. Better QB play and antonio brown doesn't retire mid-game. It goes on and on.

I imagine Sean Payton wouldn't hesitate for a second to give up Hill for Baker. Payton did chose Winston over Hill.

I don't think for a second that's what we want. At least not the running part. Hard pass on Huntley.

Not discounting Baker's decision making - what I am saying is you cannot expect your QB to perform like a 4,000 yd plus passer if he isn't getting the experience of passing for 4,000 plus yards. I too see the other issues like the obvious swing and miss at LT and weak WR's at best but if you are not focused on the passing game and your weekly game plan is focused on a "run first" mentality there is no way in hell you can evaluate your QB as a franchise player or not. It takes a whole lot more work, communication, and game experience to develop a decent 2-minute offense than the last 15-30 minutes of practice. The Browns can't have a #1 WR if you're only throwing too him 3-5 times a game. You will never develop the same thought process or read defenses the same. Let's not kid ourselves here, the top WR's are seeing the same thing the QB's are seeing. When that isn't happening you see plays like the Browns put out weekly. WR is the second hardest position to play because to be really good you need to read defenses just like your QB. The majority of the routes are run as planned but making adjustments become critical depending on what the defense is doing. Rodgers has said the best player he's ever played with is Adams because he's studied the game and sees what Rodgers sees and adjusts accordingly. That doesn't happen if you're not practicing it or applying it during game time conditions. It also will never happen throwing 150 less passes than the other top QB's. The Browns will never be a consistent contender having a QB in the bottom quarter of the league in attempts and yardage no matter how many yards they run for each week. I don't know if Baker is the answer or not but I do know that having your QB currently throwing 300 less attempts than a Tom Brady or Mahomes is "NOT" an attempt to find out if you have a franchise QB. IMHO, Stefanski has stopped Baker's growth the last 2-years and we have no idea what we have at QB and that's not Baker's fault.

There are a few on this board that seem to want to promote getting Rogers or someone like that is a great Idea.

I refuse to judge Baker when he's injured.. makes no sense.

j/c

I've been wrong lots and lots of times in my life - no shame there. Maybe I will be wrong again regards Baker. That said -

I think judging him on this year with his injuries is the epitome of insanity. Counting his winning drives, interceptions, missed open receivers - pretty meaningless. Pointing to a great half followed by a mediocre half and suggesting the injury is fine - pretty meaningless. jmo.

Whether posters have watched his other struggles and decided to put the nail in the coffin based the way he has played during his short career? He's had issues reading the D, processing speed and interceptions. So maybe? Add to that maybe some personal dislike for his character AND these issues and maybe it's easier to think you've seen enough.

Personally I don't think we've seen enough. Where some might call it excuses - things like 4 HC in 3 years, 4 OC in 3 years, the Kitchens disaster, the mechanics changes last year ... they are all real factors and influences. When Baker has played at his worst - he's been plenty bad, but there have been huge negative influences to look at and possibly add some nuance and explanation. When he's played well he's been the polar opposite. His rookie year setting NFL records. Last year taking the team to the playoffs and having such a high PFF grade for the final 9 games. The first 2 games this year with an 81% completion %.... before getting injured.

I'll continue to believe Baker has the talent and ability to lead this team. When healthy. Burrows won yesterday - the Bengals are in the playoffs, and Burrows played very well. Chase Young might be the best WR in the NFL. He helped a lot. The first pitch and catch TD was 90% Chase. Judging Baker against Allen, Lamar, Burrows, Herbert? I don't really see the point - Lamar and Allen in my mind both definitely would have both been damaged and possibly ruined coming to the 1-31 Browns coached by Hue. Both have gone to franchises that have brought them on and maxed their ability and talent brilliantly in a way I don't believe the Browns could have come close to. And bottom line - we are where we are. I'm absolutely more than happy to ride with Baker. Draft or acquire an Alpha WR. Lose Keenum. Concentrate on finishing pieces to the D and add a little depth to the OL. And stay healthy.

Final thought - for those suggesting we cut bait with Baker because (injured) a better QB would have won at least one more game and got us to week 18 with a chance to play Bengals for the division title ..... what do we do with Joe Wodds and Stefanski? Regardless of how you think they are overall - both have cost the Browns a minimum of 1 game with poor coaching. You want to cut bait on them too? We've certainly seen the same pattern of play calling and coaching for two years. I'm not - I'd like to keep them as well. But if the losing a game counts so heavily against Baker - then the same must apply to really poor coaching too - no?

The Browns did listen to him. He wanted out. He's fitting in nicely in LA because #1 Cooper Kupp is getting most of the attention, and he didn't have that luxury here.

and he's fitting in because he's in a place he has chosen. He never wanted to be here. Period.

You have once-again done a terrific job of getting to the heart of where the problem STARTS with the offense. The reality of your comments are very, very concerning to me. This issue permeates through not-only the few talented pass-game-talents we have NOW...but likely glare even larger with free agents who we may court to come here...including QBs for those wanting to move on from Baker. Our issues run much deeper than the QB the WRs (actually lack of WRs) and our mediocre TEs.

AB's unwillingness - or inability - to get some pass-catching help at the trade deadline is equally concerning.

Of course it's concerning, because the quality of receiver the Browns will attract (outside of the draft) is most likely to be a middle of the road lower tier receiver. No #1 or upper tier receiver is going to consider coming to Cleveland knowing that somewhere between 1,300 to 1,700 yards of receiving yardage is off the table before you step on the field and that your main offensive function will to be making downfield blocks for the running game. As stated in another post here, Landry is a good candidate to be let go this off season leaving the Browns with no #1 and no #2 WR on the roster. Unlike Cincy where they had Higgins and Boyd already in place before drafting Chase, the Browns will not have that luxury and you're throwing a rookie out there during your franchise QB's final contract year with no clear #1 or #2 WR. Add in the total ignorance of the TE and most surely the departure of Njoku combined with the obvious LT woes and the Browns are in serious trouble.

Keep in mind that this doesn't even begin to address the needs on defense. Offensively, the only chance the Browns have to salvage this unit is to either a) fire Stefanski which I doubt happens or b) fire Van Pelt and hire a new experienced pass first offensive coordinator to run the offense that has free rein to call the game as he sees fit with no input from Stefanski. I say fire Van Pelt because he's done nothing except double down on Stefanski's scheme when he was out the couple of times with COVID. If the Browns bring in the right coordinator and publicly state the offense runs through the coordinator, the Browns might be able to lure some quality talent. If they don't do this and I mean almost immediately after the final game against Cincy, it's going to be a long and very ugly off season. Now I'm pretty sure Stefanski won't stand for this and walk but the decision process boils down to this - keep Stefanski and never know if Baker is a franchise QB and probably playing his last year in Cleveland creating a total rebuild or find out if Mayfield is the guy by adjusting the scheme. Something has to give and one way or another - at the end of 2022 the Browns will be looking for a new head coach or QB - AGAIN!

Maybe it won't be the HC,the OC or the scheme that keeps top flight players away.Maybe it's the QB.

Well OBJ didn't want to be in Cleveland period - so while it's tempting to use him, that's probably unfair. We can use Stefan Diggs as a very clear example of a top tier WR who was desperate to get away from a KS offense and thrived in Buffalo ... I think it's abundantly clear that the 'top' WR in the Browns is not going to set flashy yardage or TD numbers regardless of who is QB. It's more than fair to suggest a #1 WR free agent is not going to want to be a Brown unless they are very much on the end of their career.

I think it's safe to speculate that nobody is going to want to come here.But,money always talks the loudest.

Plenty of free agents wanted to come here after Baker led us to the playoffs and a playoff WIN just last season. Defensive players like to play on a team that scores points...and we were that kind of team the last half of last year. See Clowney, Takk, T Hill, JJ3, M Jackson (DT), McDowell (DT), A Walker.

Offensively we picked up...well...no one. The stat lovers will say that the WRs and TEs are the same as last year. Watching the game one will see that they clearly are not. Landry got a year older and has been dinged...Hooper somehow got even slower...Njoku stayed his unreliable self...Higgins went back into the dog house...Schwartz missed games...Njoku missed games...Bryant missed games. JoJo made the 53 over Higgins for a week and he's now gone to the PS....J Bradley was on the PS...on the 53...cut..and back on the 53. Wills regressed and got hurt and COVID...Conklin was out more than he was in. Ski doubled down on his stubbornness after getting the big head from COTY.

There is virtually nothing from last year that carried over to this year other than stud RBs, a terrific interior OL and unreliable kickers.

j/c...



https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id...r-mayfield-cleveland-browns-headed-split

I agree about changing the game. I also agree about running until they can't.

The deal is all of these younger QB's have been running since middle school football. A Lamar Jackson or Josh Allen taking off and running isn't the same as Peyton Manning or Dan Marino running.

Like I said, they have been running since they were 14 years old, so they know how to take hits, when to slide, how to slide, and the rules, even when they start to run, favor them. I don't worry about them running as much as if Bernie took off running. It is just a part of today's game and coaches who don't really have that as a part of the game are playing a weapon short IMO.

I think Stefanski needs to open it up a lot more with the formations. We run a lot of bunch formations. That works for the backs, but it doesn't do anything for the passing game.

Just to support that about WRs possibly avoiding Stefanski, check out Diggs' and Thielen's stats in 2018 vs 2019 when KS took over as OC in Minn. In 2018 Thielen and Diggs had 113 and 102 receptions, respectively. The next year with DeFillippi gone and KS in, Diggs had 63 receptions and Thielen had 30 (in 10 games). In the same time period, Dalvin Cook's rush attempts nearly doubled (133 in 2018 and 250 in 2019). Diggs became disenchanted and wanted out, not unlike Beckham did here.

Good points, Dave.

First let me say I'm not trying to say which of us are right or wrong here. I do think we have very differing perspectives however. I think often times people over generalize things. In other cases I think people try to oversimplify things. But to give you the perspective of where I'm coming from, allow me to explain.

As many have pointed out Baker has been hurt almost the entire season. That does explain a lot. But far from everything. It doesn't really explain how he has thrown into double coverage. Or how he at times hasn't been able to read the safeties. I don't think it explains the regression of his footwork. I've watched people who try to say the WR's aren't open when PFF who breaks games down shows we rank high in having the most WR's open on pass plays.

Let's look at some of the results after the injury.

In week 5 we put up 42 points against the Chargers. Baker was 23 of 32 passing with 2td's and no int's.

In week 9 we put up 41 points against the Bengals. Baker was 14 of 21 2td's and 0int's.

Even in week 14 against Baltimore Baker was 22-32 with 2td's and one int.

Yet just two weeks later we saw this

Against the Packers we saw Baker go 21 -32 2td's and 4 int's.

And even in that game it was almost the tale of two Bakers. In the first half he threw 3int's. It's as if he couldn't recognize the coverage at all. It looked as though he was just totally lost out there. Then in the second half he did none of that. While it wasn't a stellar half by any means and I certainly contribute the injury in part to at lesst part of that, he wasn't making those same mental mistakes he was in the first half. In fact the defense shut the Packers to just a single FG and Baker contributed to the comeback. Even that last int. was a pass that was right on the money. The defender knew it and I certainly don't blame Baker because the WR was mugged on a no call. Four quarters of play like the "second half Baker" delivered would have made that a different game.

Now don't get me wrong here. I'm not saying the harness isn't impacting his accuracy. It clearly is.

So we've actually seen "good Baker" after the injury. We've seen he can play well enough we should win games and poorly enough that he is certainly having an impact on us losing games. While I can't speak for anyone else, that's the thing that has me wondering. It's the thing that keeps nagging at me.

What I also understand is about pain. I don't like sharing a lot of personal information, but to sum it up I live with varying levels of pain at all times. And pain doesn't impact everyone the same way. It's something that some people learn to deal with over time where they can still process things and something that persistently impacts the the thinking process of others. People have a different pain tolerance which can impact that greatly.

Hopefully that may help you understand why I have misgivings on just how much his injury impacts "every facet" of his game. Because that is seemingly what is happening here. From his decision making to his footwork. As PFF has pointed out, no matter what anyone thinks of our WR's, they are getting open. It just seems as though he isn't finding them a lot of the time.

Now you may have a different take. In fact I'm pretty sure you do. But I'm giving you my perspective. I'm giving you the reasoning for it.

But let me tell you also what conclusion that has led me to. I want to find out. I want to find out if this injury is the cause of most of the problems and I actually have a hard time believing that it is. But I also keep in ind that pain impacts people differently. I understand that it can impact peoples thought process.

We have Baker under contract for another season. Far too often I've watched fans who base their opinions on nothing but raw emotions. They refuse to take other contributing factors in mind. I'm not ready to do that. I want to see a healthy Baker come back in 2022 in order to answer the questions.

I just want you to understand that I'm not basing Baker's performance on W's and L's. I don't believe a rational person can do that. You have to base your opinions of a QB on the basis of what a QB does. There are certainly games, most of which were earlier in the year, that the O produced enough to win some games we lost. But there are far more cases where the D played well enough to win where the O didn't produce enough to win.

What I do know in terms of QB sacks is that we have 2 QB's in our own division that have been sacked more than Baker. One of them being Burrows. But I know that doesn't tell the whole story. I would be interested to know which QB's have taken the most pressures and where Baker ranks in taking pressures. While I do understand our OL has suffered injuries and have not been the best OL by far, I'm not sure how much that has impacted the amount of times opposing D's have pressured him as a passer in comparison to other QB's. That would certainly help put some focus on one of the questions I have. Like i said at the beginning, sometimes people generalize things and sometimes I think they oversimplify things.

And one last topic I wanted to address. That is Stefanski. I feel very much the same way about him. People seem to quickly forget that he's the exact same HC that worked with Baker to win 11 games last season. No less than Baker was the QB that helped lead us to 11 wins last season by working with Stefanski. And here's what I find most confusing about what we are seeing on the board. And before this gets confused, no, I'm not saying it's you that are making these comments.

What I see a lot are things like "Stefanski wants his own QB". So that would mean that a HC who has a QB that helped lead this steam to the playoffs last year doesn't want that QB? I don't see any logic in that.

And what I see them basing that on is pretty much this. "He trying to change Baker's game and who Baker is."

So in order to buy into all of that one would have to believe that a HC shouldn't change up the game based on a QB some of those very same people claim is so injured that it greatly impacts his accuracy? Why wouldn't a HC want to limit his starting QB who is wearing a harness on his shoulder? I understand when the game is going in the direction of us seeing "good Baker", like we did in the second half of the Packers game why you would lean more towards passing the ball because your QB is doing better. But in the games where he's obviously off, why would you open up the game to your injured QB?

I don't believe Stefanski is trying to reinvent Baker at all. The success we had last season makes that idea seem foolish to me. I think he has simply limited Baker by taking the injury into account.

Having both of them back next year will help answer that question too.

What you said about the injury might make some sense ... but yes we disagree. The whole issue with Baker playing through the injury wasn't that he just couldn't do some stuff or was always off target, it is the fact that it made him wildly inconsistent. And while the medication and a week of no hits might of leant itself to early success in some games, getting nailed a couple times undone all of that in an instant. I'll stick with the injury causing a massive issue for Baker's level of play. How else do you attribute two injury free games at 81% coompleition? 9 games last year as the 5th best QB in the NFL according to PFF?

I'm not going to argue or debate something so subjective. We disagree. It's not a problem.

I've said before - many seem to want to judge Baker at his best. He's been plenty good at his best. Others want to judge him at his worst, and he's been plenty bad. There's a wealthy of "in between".

There's a lot of things you touch on... we'll wait and see. I agree KS isn't trying to re-invent Baker. I think the injury limited the play book for Baker more than anything this year. I think the deep shots mostly come off play action and a roll out - which might get Baker killed with the injury he's had. And I think injury across the whole team impacted us and play calling more than we want to acknowledge at the moment. A good example is DPJ - he seemed to regress this year after so much promise. I actually think he's still got the ability to be a good #2.

Last point in general - I've seen MKC "report" on some Baker/Browns conflict and some hint that Baker doesn't want to be here. Based on - nothing substantial. I've seen the dude Rish post another media guy refer to the MKC story - without adding any substance. Now we have Jake Trotter with an article that seems built on .... Nothing. I'll believe that story when there's something to it. Currently it seems like media contrived controversy. jmo

I believe Totter came over from Oklahoma a year after Baker's rookie season. They were at Oklahoma together. Hard to believe there's not a line of communication there. The best way I've seen it summarized is Baker isn't pushing for a trade but is open to a change of scenery should that materialize itself. Give or take various degrees of nuance and that could lead to Baker wanting out depending on KS and the FO.

As for the 82% completion rate through 2 games, who cares. He threw a game sealing interception on his final drive. It's hard to be impressed with 82% completion rate when he played his worst when it mattered most.

No one on this team plays their best when it matters most, including Garrett who again finishes another season on a weak note.

This is correct. ESPN re-assigned Trotter to the Browns beat because of Baker Mayfield. Now, I don't know if it means that Baker shares info with him, but his journalistic career has followed Baker's career so far, that's for sure.