I don't know about Charles Robinson, but something is missing in the context of his relating what Stefanski allegedly said. It almost sounds like Stefanski said it in a flippant, sarcastic way, if it actually happened at all. Its pretty interesting to me that this is out there and it has gone without comment by anyone else. No follow up by the local media, or the national media. Its also strange that Stefanski reportedly said this to Robinson last off season, and Robinson did not write about it or even mention it until an appearance on a somewhat obscure podcast after the season was over.
I don't know about Charles Robinson, but something is missing in the context of his relating what Stefanski allegedly said. It almost sounds like Stefanski said it in a flippant, sarcastic way, if it actually happened at all. Its pretty interesting to me that this is out there and it has gone without comment by anyone else. No follow up by the local media, or the national media. Its also strange that Stefanski reportedly said this to Robinson last off season, and Robinson did not write about it or even mention it until an appearance on a somewhat obscure podcast after the season was over.
I’ve thought all these things myself. I also don’t think he’s lying.
Teams are able to stay together but expensive veterans are cut every year off successful teams.
We are not a successful team, and we are not good enough to create holes and then try to fill them with cheaper, less talented replacements.
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I have faith in our current front office to manage the cap better than any other front office we’ve had.
Sorry, I'm not really as down on the team as I might be coming off here, but that is like being the tallest midget in the circus. Bottom line is success is measured in wins, not an excess of cap space.
It comes down to this, what is more valuable Jarvis Landry at his current salary or his replacement with that money being spent elsewhere on the roster (including on his replacement)?
Davante Adams, Mike Williams, and Chris Godwin will all probably stay where they are. I think you keep Landry as the slot receiver for another year, then try to sign a FA like Allan Robinson or maybe Christian Kirk, and draft the best WR available in the 1st round. But I'm just a fan, so I really have no idea what happens next.
It comes down to this, what is more valuable Jarvis Landry at his current salary or his replacement with that money being spent elsewhere on the roster (including on his replacement)?
I don't think that really applies unless we have FA targets at his position. We'll finish eating our yearly cap allowance as one year rentals and still have plenty left, Landry's "savings" does really have an effect on our cap.
I think a lot of posters are pointing out a "WR room" that will be filled with tumbleweed, a DPJ poster of his weird TD dance, and Higgins' coloring books.
You're trading: if healthy, great production / team leader / great mentor on fundamentals in a room undergoing transformation / the epitome of "smart, tough, accountable"
I have no proof or what the Browns are willing to offer, or what Jarvis is willing to except. What I do know without a doubt is that Jarvis wants to come back, and the Browns want him back.
I am not a person who thinks we should be signing players worthy of one year deals to “fox” the receiver position.
Like I said above, it’s all about value. Landry and his salary versus a player to replace Landry and the cap space. If Landry takes a pay cut then we get the best of both worlds.
Look, if we end up signing a Michael Thomas or something like that with the money we saved on Jarvis, then I'm totally good with it. With or without Jarvis, a ton of work needs to be done on the WR room, but with Jarvis gone, the amount of work gets that much bigger.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
I really love and appreciate what he did for our team. I hope he stays but i get the vibe that he doesn't even want to be here no matter what the offer is. He knows he'll get better catching opportunities elsewhere (even as a 3rd receiver). yeah i said it.
I believe Jarvis to be a good man who cares about football and how he is perceived. In that light,this is a preemptive strike to get ahead of the media circus that will come with his refusal of a pay cut. It's a shame,but analytics cant put a value on leadership or heart.
Laundry will agree to that. The question is just how much of a pay cut is he willing to take??????
Right now, he is slated to make $15 million this year in salary + bonuses. I figure he's worth $8-10 million per year, but you want to be the Good Guy and give him the money he's due for this year.
So, this year is $15 million, plus two years at $9 million (just splitting it down the middle).
I'd give him $33 million for 3 years with $21 million signing bonus. It puts a fatter chunk in his pocket for this year and drops his cap hit to $11 million per year on average and keeps him here until he's 32. Heck, if we think he has 4 years left, stretch it out even further. This number can get even better by tacking on a voidable year at the end so that the bonus prorates over an extra year (so four instead of three means that each year is a $5.25 million hit instead of $7 million for the bonus money.. that gets the annual cap hits under $10 million for years he collects a salary.
Add bonuses for Pro Bowls, Playoffs, Championships, etc..
I think it could work. If his injuries aren't anything that hampers his future playing ability and he can return to form with just a little healing, then I'm totally for it and think he might go for it.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
If I didnt know any better I could have swore Landry Was a legit blow the top off the defense end zone machine Judging by some of the comments on here. Landry cannot beat number 1 CBs anymore He was never a field stretcher in the 1st place Landry would do.well in Buffalo, Kansas City New Orleans Where he could get favorable matchups. But when Landry is your number 1-WR, your WR room is weak. Some act Landry is irreplaceable. He is a average WR looking to play for a SB contending Team.
Yeah, that doesn't sound like something that Stefanski would say publicly to a reporter. It has an element of stank to it.
Agreed. I saw the report of the guy claiming it; I sincerely doubt his claim.
Stefanski is too good at saying nothing to have let that slip. I just don't buy it.
You don't go through a whole season of saying nothing other than "I need to get better" to drop a quote like that on a media person. I'm suspicious.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
If Landry actually wants to stay he will have the chance. Just not at his current salary.
On the surface out of context, that ^ sounds INSANE. (Now granted, I haven't been reading up or familiar with the situation.)
If you actually want to continue being a reporter you will have the chance but not without an enormous pay cut. If you actually want to continue being a school teacher you will have the chance but only with an enormous pay cut. If you actually want to continue being a (anything else) you will have the chance but only with an enomous pay cut. See how Insane that is. Whoa whoa whoa, he already became a Lawyer, already at the law firm, let him try the cases, (no, if Matlock actually wants to stay a lawyer he will have the chance. Just not unless---.
Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
If you actually want to continue being a reporter you will have the chance but not without an enormous pay cut. If you actually want to continue being a school teacher you will have the chance but only with an enormous pay cut. If you actually want to continue being a (anything else) you will have the chance but only with an enomous pay cut.
Except Jarvis is not a reporter, a teacher or a (anything else) - he's a pro-athlete. Pro athletes get paid on their contribution to the team they play for. Every athlete gets paid less as their contribution to the team diminishes. Especially in the NFL where contracts are not guaranteed. Insane is thinking anything other than this.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
And leadership is a big contribution. Thinking anything other than this is insane.
Having said that I don't think he's worth 15 mil. this coming year either. But it is widely known he was playing hurt. It's widely known Baker was injured which had a major impact as well. I mean in fairness I take Bakers injury into account for the terrible year he had after he was injured. I would find it hard to believe it wouldn't in any rational thinking persons mind. That's why I don't hold that against him and want to see him as our starter next year being healthy.
The thing is I look at Landry no differently. I give him the same consideration I give Baker on the injury front. Actually when you look at the fact Baker was limited due to injury and combine it with Landry playing injured, an argument could be made that Landry was hampered in his production based on both injuries.
Now you can say "He's not this and he's not that". But it has been widely reported that he's certainly the leader in the WR room. He will be coming back healthy, is the leader in the WR room having two years in Stefnaski's offense. That's a very valuable asset to have.
I don't know what his value is all things being considered. I certainly agree it's not 15 million dollars. I don't know that this FO would want to extend his contract beyond this year. All of those things are something I don't have the answers to. But those who are not considering his experience and leadership skills would most certainly come up with a lower figure than those who do.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
And leadership is a big contribution. Thinking anything other than this is insane.
Having said that I don't think he's worth 15 mil. this coming year either. But it is widely known he was playing hurt. It's widely known Baker was injured which had a major impact as well. I mean in fairness I take Bakers injury into account for the terrible year he had after he was injured. I would find it hard to believe it wouldn't in any rational thinking persons mind. That's why I don't hold that against him and want to see him as our starter next year being healthy.
The thing is I look at Landry no differently. I give him the same consideration I give Baker on the injury front. Actually when you look at the fact Baker was limited due to injury and combine it with Landry playing injured, an argument could be made that Landry was hampered in his production based on both injuries.
Now you can say "He's not this and he's not that". But it has been widely reported that he's certainly the leader in the WR room. He will be coming back healthy, is the leader in the WR room having two years in Stefnaski's offense. That's a very valuable asset to have.
I don't know what his value is all things being considered. I certainly agree it's not 15 million dollars. I don't know that this FO would want to extend his contract beyond this year. All of those things are something I don't have the answers to. But those who are not considering his experience and leadership skills would most certainly come up with a lower figure than those who do.
Great post.
And no argument needs to be made. It should be evident to all Browns fans that the "negative synergy" those two injuries presented did more to affect our offense than anything else. Besides that, those dominos fell very early, and just made all other injuries and problems exponentially negative.
And I can 100% co-sign with the "He's not this and he's not that" statement and add my own back-end. What is with this rush to plant Landry on some imaginary PUP list? Dude had a bad knee injury and came back to bust his tail... while fighting other injuries. I can't just ignore a "slack" in reliability and production, but Jarvis Landry still is who we think he is, if's he's not, our FO already knows that and there's not that much for us to be concerned with anyway.
It's funny, when all this discussion started I was finally prompted (begrudgingly) to take a hard, painful look back at the season. The first smack in the face was watching Landry injured on the first play of Week 2.
So I watched his highlights from Week 1...
That's the Landry I know and love. And that's basically his expected resume on a week to week basis. That, plus team leader and "smart, tough, accountable" for 8-10M a year?
Sign me up.
From the FO point of view, an extension that equals 3/30 really means 7.5 in years two and three. I'd call that a great answer to keeping good talent you already have.
I think everyone acknowledges he struggled with injuries. I know I have mentioned that several times. Obviously Baker was hurt too which was an additional factor - I mentioned that too. Seems everyone appreciates he's not going to get $15M per. 3/30 .... that seems more than fair based in comparison to some deals out there ... be interesting to see. And again - learning from Sheldon Richardson and what we did last year, hoping for a better conclusion. That said, there's a point when paying an extra ($5 or $6 million ?) per and getting Allen or Goodwin becomes a tremendous upgrade.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
There is a point, and that's at the top of the flowchart. We'll make a low-ball offer to start things (I predicted 3/24) and put he and his agent on the back burner while we explore the possible upside to an upgrade in free agency. That's why smart organizations structure contracts this way. You can have exit plans and options instead of doors slamming on your fingers.
My only real negative response is to those that claim the first box on the chart should be "Cut Jarvis / save money / he's too expensive"
The least desirable path is still a possibility: Pay Jarvis 15M because you couldn't nail down that FA receiver and don't want to start "The Year You Really Need To Find Out" with a wild-card, a rookie and DPJ's funky TD dance. That would make the cap gurus set their hair on fire, but wouldn't make me sell my season tickets.
Hooper and Jarvis probably jump out when you look at their scheduled salaries next year. But they are wholly different - Jarvis has been very productive, he's been a leader and instrumental in attitude change (I'd say attitude specifically - culture change might be too big a label for him). I think it was you that posted his numbers - they are good numbers for a #2 guy. First box chart should/needs to say - save money, keep Jarvis and renegotiate. Hooper is a different kettle of fish and probably needs a different analysis.
Last edited by mgh888; 02/23/2209:04 PM.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
I think it's sometimes easy for "homers" to get "spoiled". LeBron wasn't wrong, even if he sounded a bit conceited.
80 catches for 1000 yards is nothing to sneeze at. There are a lot of NFL team's fans hoping they can lure Jarvis and his talents to their city.
I think.in this day and age of volume passing 80 catches 1000 yards is more norm than The exception. That really equates to what, 5 catches and 66 yds a game. Thats ok production. The.thing is, Jarvis isnt really a end zone threat though His TD to catch ratio has never been good.
Now decades again when Ozzie Newsome or a Steve Largent had a 80/1000...that was a real achievement
