DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2022 NFL Season 2022 NFL Draft Who to take at #44

Doctson would be awesome

I'd like either DT Travis Jones or WR George Pickens.

John Metchie anyone?

I do like McBride but don't see us taking a TE in the 2nd.

At Wr we should have a choice of Pickens, Bell, Talbot, Moore, Metchie and a few others. I doubt Dotson makes it to us, but I would love it if he dis.

At DT Winfrey, Hall, Neal could all be available.

At DE Williams, Ebiketie, and Enagbare could be available.


I have little doubt we will get a talented player at #44. The question is how complimentary the later rounds line up.

Sidney Jones fell to the 43rd pick after blowing out his achilles at a pro day.

At the moment the "dream," is getting Ojabo, then Logan Hall, then a receiver. If Watson works out, we're unlikely to have a shot at a high end edge in the draft for awhile. Of course, the dream also involves Ojabo coming back from injury like Terrell Suggs.

Watson to Watson doesn't sound bad if Ojabo's gone.

Travis Jones

This would make me happy

44. David Bell WR PURDUE

78. Perrion Winfrey, DT Oklahoma

98 . Jeremy Ruckert OSU

It's all just a guess. You could throw darts at names and be correct.

We just have to wait and find out.

1a. Pickens
1b. Bell
1c. Dotson
1d. Watson
1e. Moore

One of these WR’s will surely be available at #44 and I would be happy with any of them.

j/c,

Greedy Williams
Grant Delpit
JOK

All considered to be first round prospects at one point ... who's next?

Would like to add:

1f. John Metchie III totally forgot about him

I didn't.

David Bell is the antithesis of an Andrew Berry pick.



I think someone like Skyy Moore is much more likely.

If the Browns go WR at #44, Skyy Moore would be my pick. I'm on the Travis Jones choo choo train if he's available.

Sign me up for Christian Watson if he falls. Seems to be shooting up the draft boards, but that could just be media hype.

Would you still prefer David Bell if Johan Dotson (both wrs') were still on the board? Just asking, I reserve the right to have two different mindsets on the topic.
(" Wow a Boat!, Wait a second Lois, A boat is a Boat, but a mystery box could be ANYTHING, it could even be a boat!") Ben Solak

... What about if option 2(b) required a trade up to #27 overall? ... ( A boat is just a boat, but a mystery box could be Anything!)
( I'm goin with option B, kickin your @*!! and collecting 500 dollars.) Cousin Vinny.

A receiver I like in the 3rd round is Romeo Doubs, Nevada. I think he can be a very good NFL receiver.

Just digging a little deeper in the draft since we are starting deeper.

a slow, unathletic WR from Purdue. lmao

My top 2 guys who could reasonably available at #44 are:

1, Arnold Ebiketie DE PSU
2, Perrion Winfrey DT Oklahoma

I really really like Jahan Dotson Wr PSU but I doubt he is available at #44. If he is than I probably take him.

My favorite player in the draft is Nakobe Dean Lb UGA. Again, I doubt he is available at #44. If he is available I don't know if we should take him. Mostly because I don't know how pairing him with JOK would work. Is that combination too small at Lb? I don't know enough to know if that would work.

Depending on who goes when, I could see Nik Bonitto being the pick @44. He has an athletic profile pretty similar to Takk McKinley. Maybe even closer to Haason Reddick or a mix of those two. He could be the fastball off the edge in sub packages. Maybe even stand up and move around the defense paired with JOK.

j/c,

DE Drake Jackson is another name to watch for the 44th selection.

He came into USC pro-day weighing 273 lbs, and was at 254 lbs for the Combine.

The weight loss was due to coaching, and a position change to LB, but he is a hand in the dirt DE.

I'm pretty much out on the Texans A&M TE. He's slower than Hooper and not a good blocker.



He wouldn't seem to fit this FO's typical profile of plus athletes.

He has had some good moments, but he is somewhat like a 80's TE.

In todays game, he looks somewhat cloddish.

Possibly, but I think you might have Baker overvalued. But, by saying maybe being overvalued also opens up the possibility I have him undervalued. What matters is what some other team thinks.

What I do know is I would be all in on Jordon Davis. Hey, nothing wrong with dreaming. Everything of worth starts with a dream or idea.

Sorry. I sometimes skim a bit and missed the Buc's part.

That might make it a bit more possible. Who knows? Draft day brings events totally predictable to beyond imagination.
I suppose that would fall somewhere in between.

And it would make sense for Baker to restructure his contract to play for the Bucs. Something like 2 yrs $25 million part as a signing bonus.
He sits behind Brady this year then is the de facto starter going into 2023 with a loaded Bucs offense.

Part of a larger article. Only posted what was relevant to this thread


ESPN's Todd McShay lists defensive tackles and ends who would make sense for Browns in second round

Right now, defensive line and wide receiver are still the Browns' most glaring needs, and ESPN's Todd McShay outlined some potential fits he believes could be available for Berry at No. 44.

McShay mentioned Houston's Logan Hall, Connecticut's Travis Jones and Alabama's Phidarian Mathis as options at defensive tackle.

“Logan Hall would be intriguing there,” McShay said Thursday during a conference call. “He's kind of a tweener five-technique who can play on the edge. You can play him at three-technique. He can provide some versatility.

NFL free agency is a factor in planning, too: Cleveland Browns have 'mutual interest' with Jadeveon Clowney, Jarvis Landry

“If you're looking for a pure defensive tackle, Travis Jones is a physical freak coming out of Connecticut. You just look at what he was able to do at the Senior Bowl and then combine that with the workout numbers that he had, I think he's got a chance to be a really good player.”

An edge rusher McShay singled out as a logical second-round target is Oklahoma's Nik Bonitto.

“You just need another guy on the opposite side [of Browns All-Pro defensive end Myles Garrett] to get pass-rush pressure,” McShay said. “I think Bonitto's going to come in with the explosive workout numbers he had and the unbelievable production he's had the last couple of years at Oklahoma, I think he's going to be at least as a rookie a designated pass rusher in sub packages, and I think he's going to put up some really good pressure numbers and sack numbers as a rookie.”


As for the receivers, McShay listed Western Michigan's Skyy Moore, North Dakota State's Christian Watson, Georgia's George Pickens and Alabama's John Metchie III as candidates to be picked 44th overall.

McShay raved about Moore and Christian Watson.

“[Moore] is silky smooth,” McShay said. “He's the kind of guy in a closet you'd have a hard time wrapping him up and bringing him down. He is so good in tight spaces. Tracks the deep ball well. He ran really well at the combine. I know he's a little bit undersized, but the way he plays he's so smooth. He's 5-9½, 195. He ran a 4.41 in his 40-yard dash. I think he's got a chance to be in that range around 44.”

“[Christian Watson] was like 6, 7 yards behind defensive backs on deep balls. It was like over and over again on tape. But I wondered leading up to the Senior Bowl how is he as a route runner. He just didn't have to [be a precise route runner in college] because he was running by guys at that level.

“[He faced Auburn's] Roger McCreary and some of those really top-end corners that are going to be second, third-round draft picks, and he was working them at the top of his stem and getting out of breaks. I like Christian Watson a lot. I think he's going to be in that range and would be a really good fit.”




https://news.yahoo.com/no-first-round-pick-cleveland-100055290.html?fr=sycsrp_catchall

No matter the numbers or years, he is going to have to do that no matter who might want him. Nobody is going to take him on a 18-19 mil expiring contract.

Jeremy Ruckert OSU 6'5.5 252 LBS

Ohio State tight end Jeremy Ruckert projects as a viable threat in an NFL passing game. Ruckert’s development as the primary tight end for the Buckeyes has spanned over several seasons—he’s been an enticing complementary piece of the puzzle but never someone who was asked to serve in a starring role as a pass-catcher. Ruckert’s best season in that regard comes in 2021 as the fifth option in the offense behind star receivers Chris Olave, Garrett Wilson, Jaxson Smith-Njigba, and running back TreVeyon Henderson. But when Ruckert does allocate targets, he’s efficient in hauling in passes and with the spacing challenges posed by Ohio State’s 11-personnel grouping, Ruckert is usually isolated in a one-on-one matchup. He’s been a killer in the red zone, too (all five of his 2020 scores came in the red area). In total, he hauled in 12 touchdown receptions in 51 career catches entering into his final contest, the 2022 Rose Bowl versus Utah. Many of those scores have come out of play-action, where Ruckert’s role as a blocker and his ability to climb to the second level on seal blocks can be well hidden and allow him to burst free on delayed releases out of stalk blocks and into the open. I think that Ruckert is a plus athlete for the position, or at least he plays like one. And with more freeing roles available to him in other offenses other than an OSU one that traditionally treats tight ends like afterthoughts, I think the ceiling is there for Ruckert to be a much better pro player than he is a college receiver. In the blocking phases of the position, Ruckert is used often in split-flow fits and has the mass necessary to crack the end man on the line of scrimmage effectively. That experience will prove helpful as he looks to acclimate to an NFL responsibility that is likely to ask him to play in the box.

He didn't run at the combine, so I don't see his RAS yet. It should be much higher than Wydermyer.

I'll repeat what I said around the senior bowl. McBride reminds me of Kittle

Jordan Davis would be a nice addition. I thought about this a little. There is one more player that Berry has not resigned and he is Denzel Ward. Minnesota is sitting at #12.

Getting Davis and adding Clowny means you can play 3-3-5:
DL: Clowney; Davis; Garret.
LB: Phillips; Walker; JOK.
DB: Hill; Newsome; Greedy; JJ; Delpit.

Play Phillips and Walker in the middle. Hill and JOK as the slot corner and WOLB.

You can add, mix, and match to play different schemes, but that is still a solid group without Ward.

Oh God No! I think many of you are way over-rating Davis.

Is it many over-rating, or is it a few under-rating?

Ward is a interesting mention. He very well could be a player we use as trade bait. He could be a player we use to move in to the 1st round because I have a feeling we aren't going to sign him.

I'd trade Ward for Davis.

I am 100% opposed to trading Ward. He is an excellent player and I am always miffed when other posters give him crap. You two are not doing that, but others have. The guy is an excellent corner and the Browns put him in some difficult circumstances. The draft is exciting and sexy, but proven NFL stars are hard to find. Ward is an elite corner and any thoughts of trading him are counterproductive.

I also think folks undervalue Hunt. Chubb is my favorite Brown's player. However, I think Hunt is a more complete back. He is a better receiver than Chubb and is a superior blocker. Chubb is a better, more explosive runner if he has a hole at the first level, but Hunt runs better in traffic. I love both of those guys and wish to keep both. Hell, I really like D. Johnson, as well. Now, that we have a good qb.......the running lanes will open back up and our trio is going to be a huge force.

I have to fess up, I have called him Hospital Ward on more than a few occasions.

I agree he is an excellent corner. My feeling is he may not fit the cap profile we will be seeking. That isn't to say we won't sign him, or he will want a larger slice of the cap pie than we want to allocate.

I just find it hard to believe at this point we don't have some idea of what his agent is looking for, and if it is too high, i could see him being traded. Better than having to cut the kid.

I don't want to trade him, I just see it might become one of those necessary evils.

Most Draft sites had the guy rated as an early 2nd round pick before the combine now people are talking about him as a top 15 pick. I've watched a few of his games and while he's got some talent he sure doesn't come anywhere close to being dominating. He played in 41 games in his college career and averaged 2.2 tackles a game, 0.28 tackles for loss a game, and 0.17 sacks a game. His career college numbers are less than what Aaron Donald and Danny Shelton put up in 1 year. Now the guy is going to the NFL and will face better Olinemen then he did in college and people think he's all the sudden going to be a stud. I just don't see it.

I agree. That is why I have mentioned trading Hunt for a while now. He has trade value, and the time is now(ok....up until the trade deadline)

I hope Berry doesn't trade Ward, although if he does you can probably get a #1 for him now, I could live without Hunt even though I would rather not, what do you think we could get in return for Hunt, or do we throw him in with Baker to Seattle?

I honestly don't see Davis being a big factor against Lamar, Trubisky, or even Burrow really. If the league were entirely filled with Baker Mayfield at QB, maybe I'd be more on board. Even at 44 I'd be much more comfortable with taking a guy with documented weight control issues in college. Didn't play a ton of snaps. One play chasing Jackson and he might sit out the rest of the quarter. Maybe something clicked and he's going to get into great condition. More likely, getting paid will just make him more of who he has shown in college discipline wise. He's not a guy I'd trade up for. I think it's unlikely this FO would move that far up for a guy that isn't in one of the important positions from the guardrails (QB, CB, Pass rusher, OT.)

He could end up being a great player. I'm just not sure it is a gamble that I would pay a premium to make.

It's been said and stated several times by several posters that it's very hard to build or maintain a competitive roster after signing a QB to huge money. The salary cap dictates that we will now have to sacrifice talent at other positions in order to compensate for the cost of the QB position. Of course if you sign a QB who you drafted, at least you have first round draft picks with which to attempt to replace players you can no longer afford to extend due to your QB eating so much of your cap space. And then sometimes you place yourself in a position where you can't even do that.

You do. You also have to stretch your imagination to consider that QB not only has to perform well, he'll have to compensate for weaknesses in other departments of the team because those departments will end up lacking in top level talent to help pay his salary.

Only a couple of the names you mentioned cost those teams multiple first round draft picks to acquire in upcoming seasons. Most were drafted by their teams. That allows those teams to draft fisrt round talent to try and supplement the talent they will lose. Of course I already mentioned that part.

I don't know what we could get for Hunt. Maybe a 4th round pick? Maybe a 3rd? Maybe a 5th?.

As for Ward, we probably could get a 1st. I can't imagine less than a 2nd rounder.

Again, I don't WANT to trade either, but I also don't want to get nothing for them if we can't keep them. Before I made any move to trade them I would know what it would take to keep them. That would be option A. If I didn't know that or they turned down a offer, then I would have to look at different plans, and a different plan would include the possibility of a trade.

A GM's job is to act in the best interest of the team. If the GM knows he isn't going to be able to extend a player for whatever reason, letting them walk with nothing in return isn't acting in the teams best interest.

As fans we primarily focus on the roster for this season. A GM is also focused on the roster a year or three down the road. They know all the moving parts. As fans we don't get that view.

It's odd how so many here pointed out just how much paying huge money for a QB hampered teams from building talent around them due to salary cap restraints. Now you pretend it isn't an issue. It most certainly is. It's simply the trade off you decide to make. How most of the scenarios you mentioned hasn't even had time to play themselves out yet. So we'll see.

Of course if one only looks in the opposite direction it's easy to see that just as many teams value the draft picks more than their QB's or these trades would never happen.

No doubt that for the Ying, there is the Yang.
Teams and people have to make those decisions every day.

I agree.

This will be a difficult decision either way. Keep him and you are making him the highest paid CB for four or five years. You must consider what you will do with Greedy and Newsome in the coming years. Trading Ward and you are giving up arguably the best corner in the NFL today.

My question to Berry why haven't you extended Ward yet?

I will almost bet Davis goes to Baltimore or Pittsburgh.

Interesting cap debate on whether you pay Ward or not. Easy to say "yes" but it will mean sacrifices elsewhere.

Kareem Hunt is another interesting debate. He is 26 years old. Is he tradeable? Can a team do reasonably well drafting a RB in the middle rounds? As you say we have a good QB. Do we need a high end RB? Is it better to spend the money on receivers? Don't get me wrong I like Hunt. I'm simply looking at it from a GM's perspective.

I think the discussion about whether to keep or trade Ward and/or Hunt has been good. Both sides are making good points. I would like to add one more factor to the Ward discussion. In today's NFL, you need multiple corners. There are many times you need three on the field. Teams are throwing the ball all over the place and often trot out 3 WR sets. Corners also tend to get nicked up during the season. Most tend to be slighter built guys and they are going against much thicker men in the TEs, downfield offensive linemen, and stout running backs. Hell, even some of the WRs are huge. Guys like Brown in Tennessee, Metcalf in Seattle, etc. Another thing to consider is that the AFC is loaded w/really good qbs who can beat you w/their arms and their legs. I am the belief that you can't have too many good corners.

Good point. Having Newsome and Ward is definitely a bonus. But, it comes at a cost. Can Berry continue drafting/FA supplementing the DL and safeties? Paying corners means you have limits elsewhere. Not saying that is good or bad it's simply the nature of the beast.

This is the same debate I had about whether Linderbaum was a good selection at #13. Tough bypassing the best seen at a position in 10 years. Kyle Hamilton is another good player. I know a center and safety is not the same ranking as a corner. Still, you want to draft the best.

Deciding where the money is spent keeping good players in something we'll have to watch Berry these next few years. Technically, we really don't know what Berry and Stefanski value the most. They have talked about it but talking and doing are two different things.

There is no way I intended to say I want to Trade Ward he is a top 5 CB in this league, and as Vers pointed out team play 3 CB's a lot, The NFL is a pass happy league and the AFC is loaded with great QB's, but as some have said and they are right also, the cost, Miami just signed their top CB to $25 mil a year, so you know Ward's agent is looking to cash in also and who can blame him, I think we are paying Ward around $13 mil this year so I expect him to play here and hope we can work something out for 2023. And thats the reason for the trade talk, teams just don't want to lose great players to FA which Denzel will be next year.

I think we are all making valid points. It's a good discussion and it's nice to read different takes w/out all the BS. I don't know what the Browns will do and I think the money factor that some of you have brought up is a very valid and strong point. I hope we keep Ward because excellent outside corners are really hard to find, just as bonefish pointed out. However, I won't be surprised if we don't keep him. I just hope we do.

Vince Wilfork played 964 snaps (80% of NE's defensive snaps and some ST) in 2012 (the earliest pro-football reference has snap count info for him.)

Jordan Davis played 1127 snaps his entire college career. (47 games) Even in his best conditioned year (2021) he's only playing ~40% of Georgia's defensive snaps. His measurables were impressive. I have questions about his ability to play up to those measurables consistently without wearing down. He generally was replaced in 3rd down situations. His highlights and cut ups don't show all the time he was over on the sidelines. Half his TFLs were in September as were 1.5 of his whopping 2 sacks. He looked pretty good in the playoffs but he had almost a month off between the SEC championship and the playoff game against Michigan, then a Friday to Monday "long" week to the NCAA championship. How will he hold up over an even longer season against better competition?

I don't know who will be available at #44, no one does or if we will even stay there. JMO I believe we will take the BPA at #44 at a position of need. Edge rusher, DL,LB and WR I would guess. Right now it could be anyone at those positions. Of course that may change after FA. Remains to be seen.

I am with you on this. Davis is a run stuffer in a passing league. His snap counts will be limited. He's ineffective on passing downs.

Like you mentioned, once he gets paid, I could see him really letting himself go, physically.

His highest graded year per PFF was this past season with a grade of 79.8 which rated him 80th of 861 graded defensive interior lineman.

From PFF:

Pros

Comically large. As powerful a defensive tackle as we've seen in recent college football.
Surprising range for a man his size. Can make plays on wide runs.
Sinks his anchor very well against double-teams. Rarely moved at all.

Cons

Wore down very easily. Had such a low workload, even when games weren't blowouts.
Lateral agility nowhere near his linear explosiveness.
Has a bull-rush and pretty much nothing else as a pass-rusher.

I agree that corner is a important position. You need numbers and you need good. You still have cap allocation to consider.

Earlier someone wondered why we haven't inked Ward to this point.

First, I think his injury history plays a role. For whatever reason, he has been hurt a lot. More than the dings you mentioned.

The other reason is I think the Browns and Ward are waiting for the new cap figures to come out. And this was before signing Watson. Right now we probably don't have room to extend Ward.

I wonder if Watson's contract is a factor. Not capwise, but simple cashflow. The Haslams have money, but how much of it is liquid? Almost a quarter billion of it just got set aside with the whole NFL guarantees/escrow deal.

I don't know, but when you have that much, you are also smart enough to keep more than nickels and dimes in your pocket.

No matter, I am sure they could have several million in maybe a week if needed. Even minus the Browns and the escrow amount they are still worth near 2 billion. It doesn't take your broker or whoever that long to raise some cash if needed. I am sure they will be able to put groceries on the table for the next week or so.

It's not grocery money I'm thinking about. If Ward wants ~$50M in guarantees, that's not exactly nickels and dimes. An older Xavier Howard just got $36.3M guaranteed. If Clowney wants upwards of $20M guaranteed, that adds up quick. They just took $230M out of their pockets.

The speed with which you can raise cash depends upon where your assets are allocated. I don't know the cashflow of the annual TV deals. Is that spread out monthly or is it in one big annual chunk? Could they be waiting on a large scheduled inflow?

Warren Buffett paid $2.76 billion for its 38.6% stake in Pilot Travel Centers in 2018. I think Jimmy is fine in the "cash" department.

And scheduled to buy nearly 60% more, maybe this or next year. I think the Haslams are keeping a 30% stake.


As for Ward....I think the high guarantees will be reserved for the QB position for a while. Maybe always. Any problem with signing Ward will be a function of cap space.

Another thought. Is it even true the money has to go in to escrow? It makes some sense, but I have never heard about this with a contract that has some other amount guaranteed.

link

That may not be the most unbiased source, but it does a decent job of explaining a potential situation that I was trying to get at.

Jimmy has a lot of wealth. It's probably not just sitting around in cash form, though.I don't know this, it's just a possibility. He could have swimming pools filled with hundred dollar bills just lying around, but I doubt it. It's probably not just sitting in a checking or savings account, either.

Marshon Lattimore whose overall contract has a similar value as spotrac puts on Ward got ~58M guaranteed.

Cool. If we can't sign Ward, we can't sign him. I don't think it will be a problem unless Ward wants too much. Then we move on, but that is next year.

I understand people of great wealth don't have millions sitting in a checking account. Even people of modest wealth don't. I'd say most people's wealth isn't liquid. If a average person owns a home, it is probable most of their wealth isn't liquid.

I also looked up the escrow situation. I didn't copy a link, but it said we had to put 169Mil in escrow based on some formula the NFL uses.