DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum More Baker... the slow trek to the end

There are for sure many factors at play. It's been written about here, online, by journalists that cover the NFL ... but some want to focus on one thing and one thing only and I guess that's their right. What's not their right is then to call everyone else (of which there are many) being untruthful ... but then that's the way it goes when you can't support your talking point any other way. It's a pattern we are seeing repeatedly in many threads right now.

Who said Lock was a stud? I don't get your argument at all, although I agree that there are multiple factors at play. However, if Baker was as good as some of you claim, some team would have given up a lot for him. I can't imagine how that is debatable, but whatever...

Timing - how many teams had secured their QB by the time Watson was actually signed? Several.

The injury - Baker is still recovering.

The contract - no team is going to take on $18.9M when they don't need to. The idea that his contract is cheap for a starting QB is a fallacy [1] he's a 1 year rental at this point because he's not signing for multiple years. [2] Browns absolutely are not going to keep him on the team this year. Browns have zero leverage.

Current market - It was reported Seattle have $45M (i think that's the number) in dead cap space. They are in a nothing year. Why pay a guy as a 1 year rental when you are in a re-set year? Panthers traded up to get a guy who is a potential future QB for them. They have Darnold on the books. What team - TODAY - or at any time since the draft is desperately in need of a QB? None. If a team is looking at options - we've already seen some say they would rather have Jimmy G than Baker .... why trade for Baker when you can wait and have a shot at JG based on his recovery and health?

Wentz or Baker ? Someone asked that question in this thread and someone said they though Wentz was better because he played better than Baker in 2021. No kidding. Personally I'd take healthy Baker over healthy Wentz all day every day. What did Wentz get traded for ??? Hmmmm.

The only thing missing from that post ^ is that we are only in the middle of May. That post should be pinned for a decade.

No one thinks Drew Lock is a stud. Here's what I typed (bolded for ease of read):

"Drew Lock is a stud because another team traded for him? He's better than Wilson in the eyes of Seattle because that was the swap? That would be ridiculous to debate."


However, if the only criteria one uses is essentially that "see, no team wants the guy"...when a multitude of other factors are actually in play and known/documented...the "see, no team wants the guy" comment is disingenuous at best - as I stated.

Baker - with all his warts - is better than Wentz, Darnold, Lock, Mariota, Trubisky, Tua, D Jones, Hurts, Fields, Mills, Goff, Z Wilson, Lance and Winston...but that doesn't mean those teams should be itching to go get him or that he is a better fit than what they have now...there is a lot more to it.

That's 15 QBs on your list. No doubt some people might debate you on the merits of all those QB's - for the most part I agree. I kind of like Fields and think if he gets some time and a chance to develop he might be pretty good. Lance is unknown at this point but he couldn't beat out a pedestrian JG last year (how much was he injured? I don't recall). I kind of like Tua as well - but there's not a lot to indicate that when both are healthy he can play to the level of Bakers 2nd half of 2020 and the 2 initial games this year. I do think Tua has some intangibles and will be good.

As you say - it's May. Folks crowing about how they were right about Baker are a little premature. It might be, but the book isn't written yet, not by a long way.

We disagree on some things, but that is fine.

That was the swap? Lock for Wilson, straight up?

Switching gears a bit, going into the draft we had the 2nd most cap space. We drafted no one in the 1st or 2nd round so the cap hit from our draft class is small. Our cap situation is fine, so the Browns are under no pressure to deal Baker. Teams thinking they have the edge because of that are mistaken.

It was posted on here that if we kept Baker this season, but put him on whatever list where he doesn't play, and then let him walk, then we would get a 3rd round comp pick? Not sure if that is true or not, but if so, then why would we not do that? Pay the whole 19M (a little less) and get a 3rd round pick, or pay all but 1M and trade him for a 5th?

While that's true, the leftover cap space from this year carries over to next season and so on. The more leftover cap space you have from this year the more flexible you will be going into next year. So for the short term you are correct. For the long haul paying out 18 mil. for a player you don't intend to play hurts you.

If we cut him, we eat the $18m.
If we hang onto him, a team may get desperate and deal. If not, we still just eat the $18m.

I think Berry is just being patient. I highly doubt he's holding things up so he can work over some other GM.

Right, but we have to pay him no matter what so there wouldn't have been any carry over from Baker.. That was set in stone when we exercised his option.

I believe you have the right of it.

The only reason to cut Baker now is he is impacting the team negatively; if he were purposefully trying to undermine the team. I wonder if there is anything in the CBA about that.

What makes Mayfield better then those QBS you listed ?
Better than Wentz...well Wentz has accomplished more than Mayfield
And his numbers with the Colts last year Are as good as any season Mayfield has put up

Darnold. Agreed. But I heard the excuses about how Baker had 27 coordinators
In tenure with the Browns and all these new playbooks to learn
Darnold had worse coaching then BM

Lock. Agreed
Mariotta. Agreed
Trubisky. He got a bad franchise to the playoffs. Again how well was
He coached up?
Tua. He is a starting QB now, Baker isn't ..so is Baker really better ?
Jones. He is worse than Baker
Hurts. He is better than Baker. He can make some thing out of
Nothing when the play goes off schedule.
Fields ...Baker should be better. Fields was a rookie last year
With the worst supporting cast in the NFL
Mills. The Texans front office feels He is better than Mayfield
Mills again was a,1st yr QB with very little talent around him
Goff. I guess but again Goff has reached a SB , Mayfield hasn't
Z.Wilson .he was a rookie with a rotation at RB and very little at WR
Other Corey Davis . Wilson beat the Bengals too.
Lance. Again a rookie. Mayfield should be better than him
Winston . He is better than Mayfield .better arm. Can throw from the pocket
Threw for 5,000 yds in a season

j/c:

As I mentioned on another thread, Jake Burns is a guy I really like as a guy who can break down the game. Here is an article w/video footage that he wrote about Baker that is pretty much dead on if anyone is interested in reading it.


https://247sports.com/nfl/cleveland...om-poor-execution-176812470/#176812470_3

It's always positive when QBs do these things...takes two - or more - to tango.

https://www.beaconjournal.com/story...in-hooper-kansas-city-chiefs/5767290001/

https://www.brownsnation.com/baker-mayfield-set-to-host-teammates-in-austin-this-week/

Imagine the deception on OBJs part to fun-along with these workouts while simultaneously asking for a trade behind the backs of his teammates.

Did you just post three separate links from MSN (weird) all using the same Nick Chubb quote as the basis for the story?

I think Nick Chubb is just a really nice guy...

I am not sure you were trying to be funny, but that made me laugh. I appreciate subtle humor.

Those two quotes reminded me of Joe Thomas. Dude never said a single bad word about any of his QBs (despite them all being pretty terrible).

Lol. I appreciate that you appreciate my subtle humor, sometimes I feel it gets lost in the message.

Baker Mayfield had the leadership skills of a ballerina as
Btowns QB. Leaders galvanize teams , set tones and examples
That equate winning
Baker failed on all counts

You mean like getting into the playoffs for the first time in years after running thru 3 different coaches?

Well you have to understand people are acting like that never happened.

Especially after that 675 LB. squat!!!!!

Well Baker had a ... ... well a baseline kind of or a "floor" so to speak in the wins vs. losses column as the Browns 'uarterback so that was not a fail on all counts, they seemed to be able to get some wins with Baker as the 'uarterback.
( Big 2nd 'uarters.) Browns? Can't win with Baker,? Can't win with Keenum.? Can't leave well enough alone, change for changes' sake, won't keep a group together for the long haul, .. always a new mix, .. never get the cake out of the oven because they always have more ingredients to add to the mix.
( I don't expect much success for the Browns in 22, which would likely mean another new Head Coach, which would likely mean another sense of starting over from s'uare one, just what this team needs?.

j/c:

What does 3 coaches have to do with Baker being the 65th best
QB in the league now ?

1. Baker was the 1st player 1st QB drafted in the 2018.
If a QB is drafted that high, he is expected to weather
Coaching changes and still play at a high level

2. When the Browns Beat the Steelers in the playoffs
I didnt hear anyone bring up how many coaches Baker has had etc
Only now that he is QB without a team ,it's brought up.

3. Baker won one playoff game in 4 years
That's his ceiling.
He will never take a team to a SB

I'm so sick of the endless, needless, bashing of Baker. Kid gave what he had, sorry OBJ and company took a dump on that. This fan base deserve DW.

Ok Baker gave it his all like Charlie Frye , DeShon Kizer, Jeff Garcia
Brady Quinn Brandon Weeden, Doug Pederson, Kelly Holcomb
Let's hand Baker the 4 year TRY HARD AWARD
We can put his plaque along side Wali Rainer, Brian Robissue
Etc

Deshaun 1 win in 5 years
Playoff rating below 90 in 3 games.
Deshaun has lost to luck and mahomes.
Deshaun has a 500 win percentage in are division
He will not win 1 Playoff game in the next 2 years.

Well, he has a lot of room to improve!!!

Let's not forget, Watson was drafted by a team that had been to the playoffs the previous 2-years. Mayfield was drafted by a team that was 1-31 the previous 2-years.

Mayfield had 4 head coaches in his 4-years in Cleveland, Watson had 1 until O'Brien was fired after 4-games in 2020.

Watson was drafted by Houston who had 4-All Pro Players on the roster (JJ Watt, Hopkins, Weeks, Clowney). Mayfield had 1 All Pro on the roster when he arrived (J. Thomas).

Facts are facts but at this stage it really doesn't matter since they acquired Watson to replace Mayfield.

So now the Browns have the assumed upgrade at QB who might not play because of the scummy accusations of mistreating women against him off the field.

Let's not forget that multiple teams were willing to give up a ton of assets and pay him big money to be their starter despite the allegations against him and Houston not having any leverage because Watson wasn't going to play there again while no one has traded for Baker despite no legal issues and a rather low QB salary. Of course, NFL execs are dummies compared to the Baker fans on this board who use phrases like "assumed upgrade at QB..."

Baker won't be back in uniform w/the Browns no matter how many times his fan base whines about it. No way can he re-enter that locker room after the statement he made about his teammates.

DeShaun Watson doesnt have to talk to lead a team
He let's his play on the field speak for him.
Total opposite of Baker