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Originally Posted by PitDAWG
"Law and Order" is just a catch phrase that holds no meaning.

no, it needs to have meaning and teeth.


If he is found guilty throw Trump in jail. end of story.


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I didn't suggest that it shouldn't have teeth. I stated that as of now it doesn't and hasn't.

The phone call where he plainly told Georgia election officials he needed to find over 11k votes is on tape. Him telling them they may be committing a crime by not doing so is on tape. Him blackmailing Ukraine in threatening to withhold funds already approved by congress to investigate Hunter Biden after they had already done so is in the phone call manuscripts. Not a peep from republicans about any of it. Let's not pretend.


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I would never generalize about large groups like republicans or all trump supporters etc.

I known both and I may disagree but that is expected and typical.

But trump has been attracting a dangerous group of violent outliers. Demonstrating at marches. Attending his rallies. etc.

Jan 6th proved what could happen as militia groups like "proud boys, oath keepers etc. get emboldened. Knuckleheads showing up in front of the FBI office in Arizona with their ar15's.

It is disgusting what has been unleashed since trump took office. Intimidation, threats of violence egged on by fox and other media outlets.

I have absolutely no problem with conservative republicans per se.

However, Jan 6th was the worst thing I have seen in my time. It amazes me that every American would not want accountabliity.

This search for documents is more proof. Claims of planting evidence etc. just absurd. The FBI has video now of the storage areas. It could be very revealing how clsssified government material has been handled.

I will be patient and wait for everything to come out of this along with the hearings.

I am afraid that this country has been ripped apart. Violence has become normalized. Rage is accepted behavior. The DOJ and all branches of Law and Order will be tested to the max. It is my hope that it ends as trump fades. However, I fear pandora's box has been opened and can not be closed.

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If you can explain to me which Republicans it was that called out him trying to blackmail Ukraine or trying to get Georgia election officials to rig the election I will happily agree with you.

You see I don't actually label them as all the same. I'm sure the vast majority of them would never storm the capital. I'm quite sure most of them would have never tried to have blackmailed Georgia election officials or Ukraine. So they're definitely not all the same. But when it comes to stepping up to the plate and calling trump out for such behavior they're pretty much all the same. It's not all inclusive as it pertains to those unforgivable actions. It's a level of degree.


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Armed Trump supporters protest outside of FBI office in Phoenix following Mar-a-Lago probe

PHOENIX - Signs reading "Honor your oath" and "Abolish FBI" were seen outside the FBI office in Phoenix on Aug. 13, just days after news broke that the agency searched former President Donald Trump's Mar-a-Lago home in Florida.

Several of those who were there were armed with guns.

https://www.fox10phoenix.com/news/trump-supporters-protesters-fbi-office-phoenix-mar-a-lago-search



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Those people disgust me. They should not call themselves Americans.

They represent themselves not this country.

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Originally Posted by bonefish
But trump has been attracting a dangerous group of violent outliers. Demonstrating at marches. Attending his rallies. etc.

um...


(Antifa/BLM) protestors were violently destroying many cities for nearly 6 months.

both extreme sides are developing some bad habits that are not good for our country.


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Originally Posted by superbowldogg
Originally Posted by bonefish
But trump has been attracting a dangerous group of violent outliers. Demonstrating at marches. Attending his rallies. etc.

um...


(Antifa/BLM) protestors were violently destroying many cities for nearly 6 months.

both extreme sides are developing some bad habits that are not good for our country.


NOPE! That's a false equivalent. Black people marching because they are being killed disproportionately by those who are supposed to protect us is not the same as a bunch of dumbasses attacking the capitol building to overthrow the duly elected government. The riots were bad and did a lot of damage, but no left winger killed anyone. Rittenhouse killed some people, a right-winger. Most if not all of the riots were incited by right-wingers too, proven after the fact in several cases. And I'm not picking on you, but this is a BS response that dismisses right-wing guilt/responsibility for their actions. Also, the left said right away, lock up the looters/rioters that break the law, while the right is still protecting these people and the traitor-in-chief.

Last edited by OldColdDawg; 08/15/22 09:24 PM.

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Last edited by OldColdDawg; 08/15/22 09:36 PM.

Your feelings and opinions do not add up to facts.
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I know we ALL exaggerate but BLM/Antifa violently destroying cities.....REALLY, name the cities, how large were the lefts terrorist groups/ your words- not mine. Antifa stands for anti fascist....DUH, which American isn't for that...AND there is NO central group of Antifa. BLM, they mostly are peaceful- but some violence has occurred....Proud Boys and Oath Keepers- those are organized, right wing, armed, violent groups. The two opposite sides are not anywhere close to being equal= far more nuts on Republican/right side of political spectrum. It doesn't help Republicans when you have a nut as President who supports white supremacy groups.

Please, Justice Department, jail Trump so we can move on.


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Ditto, a 1000%. Add on, the white supremists who are upset about moving Confederate statues....and cause violence because they don't want the statues moved- their state history, etc. If they were black and saw statues every day in prominent place celebrating the Civil War, how can it be helpful. Virginia has BLACK citizens and they shouldn't have to see those statues very day for next thousand years. Don't destroy them, but move them to less conspicuous places. Wonder if Stone Mountain in Georgia will ever be resurfaced- JMHO, it should be. That mountain doesn't represent a large section of the Georgia population.


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Ikr. This is how I feel on here most of the time. LF nails it.

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Originally Posted by superbowldogg
(Antifa/BLM) protestors were violently destroying many cities for nearly 6 months.

I think there may be a huge difference between BLM/Antifa protestors and people who came after dark to loot and riot. And factually well over 90% of these protests across the country were peaceful. That does not in any way excuse the behavior that went on there.

Quote
both extreme sides are developing some bad habits that are not good for our country.

I agree. the stark difference is an easy one to see however. One political party fans the flames of such violence with their rhetoric. Seemingly with acceptance, deflection for their actions and "love" for those committing the violence. So please do let me know when and if you can see a difference here.......



Then there was the "good people on both sides" after some racist purposefully hit a group of counter protestors with his car killing one of them. You're a pretty smart guy and i know you can see the difference here.


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I think there must have been some conspiracy involved as for the reason Cheech & Chong mentioned the reds without a word about the greens. DEFUND CHEECH AND CHONG!


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Originally Posted by PitDAWG
Originally Posted by superbowldogg
(Antifa/BLM) protestors were violently destroying many cities for nearly 6 months.

I think there may be a huge difference between BLM/Antifa protestors and people who came after dark to loot and riot. And factually well over 90% of these protests across the country were peaceful. That does not in any way excuse the behavior that went on there.

Quote
both extreme sides are developing some bad habits that are not good for our country.

I agree. the stark difference is an easy one to see however. One political party fans the flames of such violence with their rhetoric. Seemingly with acceptance, deflection for their actions and "love" for those committing the violence. So please do let me know when and if you can see a difference here.......



Then there was the "good people on both sides" after some racist purposefully hit a group of counter protestors with his car killing one of them. You're a pretty smart guy and i know you can see the difference here.

Not sure who you are quoting here but but whoever had it right, EXTREMES on either side are destroying America. Those in Congress that are pushing it need to be ousted.

Last edited by Damanshot; 08/16/22 04:11 PM.

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Interesting Trump development....according to "Raw News"- probably fake news??? They report Trump is having trouble getting lawyers to help him with his defense- why he was OK having departmental classified intelligence in his home. They stated he's got D graded lawyers willing to help. No wonder the article continues- he stiffs lawyers, he throws them under the bus, he doesn't take advise, etc, etc, etc. Damn, I want to work for him......and he was elected to the Presidency.....WOW.


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Originally Posted by hitt
If they were black and saw statues every day in prominent place celebrating the Civil War, how can it be helpful.

It can't.
And it isn't.
Because it wasn't/isn't meant to be "helpful."

Anyone who's interested should read about the peak times that these statues were erected. Sword-wielding confederate generals on rearing steeds were planted in town squares to send a clear message to a very specific segment of America's population.

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Virginia has BLACK citizens and they shouldn't have to see those statues very day for next thousand years.

See my statement above. Follow the link. These dots aren't hard to connect.

Quote
Don't destroy them, but move them to less conspicuous places.

As I said in a post when these stories were still current news, these statues are artifacts of an earlier time.

We already have public places that are dedicated to preserving and displaying artifacts from times gone-by. They are called: museums. Places that people voluntarily attend. A place set aside for those who wish to examine artifacts of the past. At present, these monuments have been removed, and have been placed in storage. I think some rich racist land owner would be well-served to construct a garden park on his own private land as a place to display these monuments. (S)he could even charge admission. If I saw a story like that pop up at some point in this forum, I'd say: "Go on, with your bad self." I would not be offended or put-out in any way. 1A, free enterprise, private land... ticks off all the boxes. No problem for me at all. I can choose someplace else as my vacation destination. But if I have a concert to play in a town that forces me to drive past one of those- things in its town square, then yeah- that's a personal problem for me, Clemdawg: American Citizen.

Quote
Wonder if Stone Mountain in Georgia will ever be resurfaced- JMHO, it should be.


Ask the Lakota Sioux what they think of the defacing of The Six Grandfathers.
The US government green-lighted the desecration these peoples' equivalent of Jerusalem.
Jerusalem, my fellow Christians.

On land they stole, as defined by their own laws that they got to write.


______________


I'm writing my response to you not only because your thoughts added to the conversation, but also because it gives me a chance to add my thoughts about a broader issue: how we teach American History to our youngest citizens. Thousands of people visit Mt. Rushlimbaugh each year, without knowing how it came to be, or why it was placed where it was. It's not like the West is bereft of mountains to carve up, you know?

Millions drove past those monuments in town squares every day without understanding the significance of their prominent placements, or the message they were meant to send. These are just two examples of America's History that weren't taught to me when I was in public school. I suspect that they weren't taught to most US kids by the time they graduated high school, because mine was the stereotypical public education. History class: as good as our teachers could give us, but woefully incomplete and inadequate (one exception: Wayne Brown/Grade 10 History teacher/swim team coach/-ex hippie, who prompted us to 'go to the dusty stacks of the library to learn who America really is').

My family reunions were a yearly history lesson when I was growing up. I heard some of the same stories every year... but sometimes, I'd hear also hear stories that weren't told quite so often. Not all my forebears were the upright citizens that my Momz & Pops were. And those stories were as important as the oft-told ones, because they were true, real... and a part of the fam history we need to own. Case in point: My Dad became the kind of man he was because as a young kid, he realized that his best role models came from his mothers' side of the union that produced him. My gramps was a worthless, shallow, self-centered p.o.s. Old Roy wasn't the only Lousy Clem, but I digress from my message. The message: In order to be a true Clem, I must take on and carry ALL of what being a Clem means... and that means taking the awful along with the awesome.

Which brings me to the point I've not been talking about, up 'til now:
If America is to grow from a fledgling, adolescent society into the adult phase of our evolution, She must fully acknowledge the entirety of who She's been.

If My Family can acknowledge its total oral history on a yearly basis- the good AND the bad- I expect/demand My Country to do the same. It's what adults do. And it's how adults continue to grow. America's Fam should do the same, for Her own damned good.

There is a current movement in many states to continue the tradition of suppressing the teaching of America's total historical truths in an effort to further a particular societal end. Books are being burned/banned. Selective segments of Our Collective American History are being actively suppressed. This movement seeks to continue the teaching of a whitewashed American History that mimics the history books of 1940-1965... the last years that Confederate monument construction flourished, one half-century ago.

This is not coincidental. It is synonymous with the last death-throes of a bygone American time that refuses to die with dignity.

If I must bear the burden of carrying my grandfather's weight as part of my personal family name, America should be required to carry the same weight of the things that She f#d up.

Standards are standards.

Or they are not.


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It may take a long time Clem.

What passes as "history" can still be bias because of who and when it was written.

The American story maybe written accurately by someone from somewhere else.

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Fake news is usually reserved for FOX.. Brietbart,,, OAN.,, and the like.. Kinda like the fake news that Trump actually won the election which any thinking person can tell you is a flat out lie. Think I"m wrong, well, watch the number of those that are questioned under oath for touting the Trump win.. All are taking the 5th.. They don't want to tell the lie under oath,.,,

Today, Rudy is set to testify under oath in Georgia... Any bets he pleads the 5th about 100 or more times?

Lindsay Graham will have to testify,, ,any bets on how many times he pleads the 5th on anything to do with the "STEAL" that trump and his minions keep talking about.


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Assume your Indian- join the real world- all immigrants abused- Irish, Poles, Catholics, Muslims, Africans...on and on. Indians lost land because they were the weaker civilization- that is world history. America- at her best- threats everyone equally better than anywhere else. The world ain't fair.

Trump's Truth Social....what a joke. He says mobsters only ones who take the fifth, then takes it hundreds of times, says the Feds planted evidence and releases names of agents who carried out the raid-why? He wants them punished or intimidated.

The "normal Trumpite" wanted him as president because he was a businessman/ a non-politician. Whoopie, now we know he's a crooked businessman/ cooked his books over and over....and he's never been Presidential- he's a complete con man....contras...you got what you wanted. Hope American survives.

Lastly, Liz Cheney for President- her concession speech was perfect- watch it please- she may be a RINO in Trumpites eyes, but a true patriot. Jail Trump.


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I know many won't bother to take 25 minutes, but you should watch this. All of it. I think many points are brought up that all of us should at least think about and consider. It's pretty compelling stuff that should at minimum get you thinking, and this isn't a diatribe against the President. For me it is more about the state of affairs. I don't know how factual all the information might or might not be, but I do know the general thrust of his commentary is spot on mark.

We are living in some interesting times, and times that could have drastic implications on our future as citizens and our country.



If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.

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A lot of things should have us all thinking.....



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If the last 23 minutes are anything like the first 3 minutes, then watching that is a waste of 26 minutes.

I do try and give even the likes of Tucker Carlson the benefit of the doubt every once in a while to see if they are getting any better. If nothing else, I get to periodically re-confirm my assumptions... so I guess I can check that box again and not watch anything from him for a period of time.


There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.

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Originally Posted by oobernoober
If the last 23 minutes are anything like the first 3 minutes, then watching that is a waste of 26 minutes.

I do try and give even the likes of Tucker Carlson the benefit of the doubt every once in a while to see if they are getting any better. If nothing else, I get to periodically re-confirm my assumptions... so I guess I can check that box again and not watch anything from him for a period of time.


I think he brought up a lot of questions that we should be asking over the course of the video.


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Originally Posted by oobernoober
If the last 23 minutes are anything like the first 3 minutes, then watching that is a waste of 26 minutes.

I do try and give even the likes of Tucker Carlson the benefit of the doubt every once in a while to see if they are getting any better. If nothing else, I get to periodically re-confirm my assumptions... so I guess I can check that box again and not watch anything from him for a period of time.

Well, sorry I wasted your time. I think had you watched with a open mind you might feel different....but then again, maybe not.


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Like I said, let's see what is claimed to be held. If it deserves prosecution, I will be all for it.

Since when are you so trusting of what the government says?


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Originally Posted by Ballpeen
Like I said, let's see what is claimed to be held. If it deserves prosecution, I will be all for it.

Since when are you so trusting of what the government says?

I'm not always so trusting of the government. But when making a decision on which side of an issue I feel has more credible, I look at the players involved. I've witnessed trump tell lie after lie for years now. I've watched him suck up to people who do his bidding and attack everyone who doesn't.

I heard him say something stupid like "everyone ends up having to bring home their work from time to time."

News flash! You're not entitled to keep those documents for a year and a half after you've been fired! They don't belong to you.

So yes, in the end I trust an actual lifetime Republican who was appointed by Trump, Christopher Wray, who we all know it went through him on its way up the chain of command, than I do trump. There are valid reasons for that.

I witnessed over 140 capital police officers get hurt by protestors sent to the capital by trump. Rather than stand by and support the police that were injured, trump told those people he understood and he loved them. Republicans now are attacking the FBI. So it's the same as it's ever been with trump. He only supports the law enforcement he feels has his back and to hell with anyone he feels doesn't. Then there's the phone call to Georgia election officials. His call to the leaders of Ukraine. The list just goes on and on. Anybody with an ounce of common sense knows you can't believe a word that comes out of his mouth.

You seem to be saying you're willing to see what they actually found first. Even though posting that Tucker nonsense suggests otherwise. You do understand that trump could say the thing and easily call off the dogs, right? Yet he won't.

All of these things factor into which side of this I choose to trust at this point. Which in this case makes which side I choose to believe a very easy choice.


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Originally Posted by PitDAWG
[quote=Ballpeen]


I witnessed over 140 capital police officers get hurt by protestors sent to the capital


wait... you were there?



I have seen things like this
https://www.police1.com/officer-saf...jured-in-capitol-siege-NSi5xcpt1sIELYvJ/

According to The Post, 65 D.C. police officers suffered concussions, swollen ankles and wrists, bruises, and irritated lungs from pepper spray.


"81 Capitol police officers were assaulted during the siege, but the extent of their injuries was not detailed in reports." - meaning probably nothing serious


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So since the extent of their injuries were not listed they didn't happen? Seriously? How hurt do you need to be in order to be hurt? Jesus Christ.


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Originally Posted by PitDAWG
So since the extent of their injuries were not listed they didn't happen? Seriously? How hurt do you need to be in order to be hurt? Jesus Christ.


I guess if you count the vast majority of injuries which were abrasion, swollen ankles and wrist, lung irritation, and bruises as carnage...


were there serious injuries? absolutely. not as many as the news is pushing out there

Was it right? heck no.


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Originally Posted by hitt
I know we ALL exaggerate but BLM/Antifa violently destroying cities.....REALLY, name the cities


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Floyd_protests
arson, vandalism, and looting that occurred between May 26 and June 8 caused approximately $1–2 billion in damages nationally, the highest recorded damage from civil disorder in U.S. history, and surpassing the record set during the 1992 Los Angeles riots.[6][43]

At least 200 cities in the U.S. had imposed curfews by early June 2020, while more than 30 states and Washington, D.C. activated over 96,000 National Guard, State Guard, 82nd Airborne, and 3rd Infantry Regiment service members.[33][34][35][36] The deployment, when combined with preexisting deployments related to the COVID-19 pandemic and other natural disasters, constituted the largest military operation other than war in U.S. history.[37] By the end of June 2020, at least 14,000 people had been arrested.[4][38][39] By November 2020, 25 people had died in relation to the unrest.


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Originally Posted by Ballpeen
I know many won't bother to take 25 minutes, but you should watch this. All of it. I think many points are brought up that all of us should at least think about and consider. It's pretty compelling stuff that should at minimum get you thinking, and this isn't a diatribe against the President. For me it is more about the state of affairs. I don't know how factual all the information might or might not be, but I do know the general thrust of his commentary is spot on mark.

We are living in some interesting times, and times that could have drastic implications on our future as citizens and our country.


It only took his first remark for me to immediately see he's full of crap. It was 100% legit and absolutely necessary. Trump is a scumbag. It's not hard to grasp when you quit defending him and actually look at who he is and what he's done. I told y'all he was a crook and a scumbag from the jump. You called me radical. Well now all people still supporting him are the RADICAL EXTREMIST. The dude is a douche, I don't get why anybody protects him. Same for Tucker. Absolute trash, fascist ass bigot, and liar extraordinaire.


Your feelings and opinions do not add up to facts.
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First I never used the word carnage. Secondly you have zero evidence that their undescribed injuries were limited to "abrasion, swollen ankles and wrist, lung irritation, and bruises". But you just keep doing you.


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

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Originally Posted by Ballpeen
Originally Posted by oobernoober
If the last 23 minutes are anything like the first 3 minutes, then watching that is a waste of 26 minutes.

I do try and give even the likes of Tucker Carlson the benefit of the doubt every once in a while to see if they are getting any better. If nothing else, I get to periodically re-confirm my assumptions... so I guess I can check that box again and not watch anything from him for a period of time.

Well, sorry I wasted your time. I think had you watched with a open mind you might feel different....but then again, maybe not.


I tell ya what 'peen., You watch the last session of the jan 6th hearings with an open mind, then I will watch this with an open mind. Deal?


People who lack accountability think everything is an attack
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Originally Posted by superbowldogg
Originally Posted by oobernoober
If the last 23 minutes are anything like the first 3 minutes, then watching that is a waste of 26 minutes.

I do try and give even the likes of Tucker Carlson the benefit of the doubt every once in a while to see if they are getting any better. If nothing else, I get to periodically re-confirm my assumptions... so I guess I can check that box again and not watch anything from him for a period of time.


I think he brought up a lot of questions that we should be asking over the course of the video.

The first time I watched I stopped after his "well, documents are classified that shouldn't be all the time" argument. So, according to ol' Tucker, whoever has access to Classified info can decide whether or not they need to treat them as classified or not. When 'peen responded to me I felt bad and watched the whole thing. What I summarized above was the highpoint of his rant.


There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.

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Originally Posted by Ballpeen
Originally Posted by oobernoober
If the last 23 minutes are anything like the first 3 minutes, then watching that is a waste of 26 minutes.

I do try and give even the likes of Tucker Carlson the benefit of the doubt every once in a while to see if they are getting any better. If nothing else, I get to periodically re-confirm my assumptions... so I guess I can check that box again and not watch anything from him for a period of time.

Well, sorry I wasted your time. I think had you watched with a open mind you might feel different....but then again, maybe not.

I went back and watched the whole thing with an open mind.

I accept your apology.


There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.

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Here is the problem with civility. Civility only works when both parties practice it.

No one expected that the president of the United States would consider a white supremacist "very fine people"

No one expected the president of the United States of America to incite a riot.

No one expected the former president of the United States of America to take home confidential property of the government when they left office.

Respect, deference, trust and all other normal things that are expected of being "civil" generally comes with positions of authority, however it can be lost if the actions of the person in the position of authority abuse it.

Which has happened time and time again over and over again.

For anyone to feign surprise that the government is breaking the norms of expectations is totally disingenuous as the norms were broken by the former president, and someone has to clean up after the White House has been trashed by the most uncivil of people.

This is a character flaw in Trump and his entitled upbringing. No one ever would dare smack him down, because rules, well they just don't apply to him.

Tucker can say what he wants, but as a person who considers myself as being honest, I can totally believe that what went down. and the reason it happened is because Trump broke the rules of civility.

Or as my dad would say, "you lay in the bed that you make". That too does not apply to Trump.


There will be no playoffs. Can’t play with who we have out there and compounding it with garbage playcalling and worse execution. We don’t have good skill players on offense period. Browns 20 - Bears 17.

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Your feelings and opinions do not add up to facts.
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"Protect classified information. Nobody is above the law."

Perfect.

There has never been a person more deserving of prison.

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Originally Posted by Ballpeen
I know many won't bother to take 25 minutes, but you should watch this. All of it. I think many points are brought up that all of us should at least think about and consider. It's pretty compelling stuff that should at minimum get you thinking, and this isn't a diatribe against the President. For me it is more about the state of affairs. I don't know how factual all the information might or might not be, but I do know the general thrust of his commentary is spot on mark.

We are living in some interesting times, and times that could have drastic implications on our future as citizens and our country.


Carlson again jumping to conclusions. Sorry, but the guy is a total ass... if you chose to believe anything that comes out of his mouth,, good luck.... You won't find me falling for his BS


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“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan

"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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