DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Fire Joe Woods

Looking at those numbers makes me ask if this is a conditioning issue.
2nd quarter and 4th quarter.
Are other teams just better conditioned and taking advantage of our fatigue?
Maybe that fatigue is manifesting as mental errors more so than showing up in the physicality

it appears we are making halftime adjustments and we are also game planning well

we just need to do a better job of making 3rd and 4th quarter adjustments

Stating facts is not popular with some posters. The Ravens are a consistently good team who regularly make the playoffs. The situation with the Browns has been an ongoing problem for the past two seasons. Apples and oranges.

Anyone blaming the fans for their outrage is using misplaced blame on the situation. But then again victim shaming has become very popular. Trying to compare a single game to a two season pattern is not attractive.

I can give you a breakdown by season. In 2020 the Browns averaged giving up 9.0 ppg in the fourth quarter. That placed them ranked at 28th in most points allowed in the fourth quarter. Only Seattle, Atlanta, Detroit and Las Vegas were worse. In 2021 the Browns ranked 24th by giving up an average of 7.6 ppg in the fourth quarter. Neither of those averages were as high as 9.2 ppg in the fourth quarter so it seems as though one of our sources are incorrect. But either way that's not good.

2020 stats.... https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/opp-4th-quarter-points-per-game?date=2021-02-08

2021 stats..... https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/opp-4th-quarter-points-per-game?date=2022-02-14

I actually added the numbers myself and divided by 37 (I included the playoff games and the 2 games this year).

You are probably correct. I just went by a source that ranked all 32 teams by season in points allowed per game.

Pit's sources were correct... which made it easy to double-check the math.

Jfan was off by just a bit when looking back to the beginning of 2020

8.81 points per 4th quarter is still absurd.


And here's a few other tidbits:

- We've only blanked 5 teams in the 4th quarter over the last 37...

- We've given up double-digits 16 times.


- We've given up 13.25 over our last four games.

It looks like it to me as well, just going with what was being talked about

I'll take your word for it......I'm not adding all those up again. I prolly got so'm wrong wif my maffs.

j/c:

I spent about 10 minutes reviewing the long TD pass that got the Jets back in the game. I was pausing the action, rewinding, moving forward in slow motion and I think I have diagnosed the problem. Note: Not positive about all the numbers, but I think I have the guys identified correctly.

To begin with, we were in Cover 4 w/2 Deep. That is not to be confused w/Quarters where you line 4 guys across, but the depth is different--as in--there are 4 guys close to the LOS. Those are two versions of Cover 4. Again, we are in Cover 4--2-Deep.

Okay, they run their RB out to the left flat and a WR is running a deep out on the left. We have a safety covering the left flat and Emerson is running w/the WR.

The pocket is centered, but Flacco is looking middle to right all the way.

Wison runs a deep post. We have Walker in the short intermediate middle zone. JJ is moving to cover Wilson's route. Delpit is standing flat footed on the stupid logo and even hedges a bit towards Wilson, who is already being covered by JJ.

On the right side, they run #83 out to the right flat. JOK is in that zone, so Ward was not covering the flat. His job should have been to trail the WR down the sideline while watching for 83 to turn his route up. So, Ward messed up. However, he should have had deep help from Delpit because the latter should have rolled his coverage that way once JJ went w/Wilson.

The result was that both Ward and Delpit made mistakes. Not just one of them. The other guys looked to be in position.

My conclusion that this was not the communication breakdown like we saw on some other plays the last two weeks. This appears to be mistakes by both Ward and Delpit. Not sure if GM is still watching this thread, but I think I just answered his original question.

Yes, I think 6 DBS and only 1 LBer would have been a better choice.

Interesting note on that botched play. AJ Green was in on that play and it was the first and only defensive snap he's played all season.

AJ Green = bad juju!

LOL

I should add that AJ Green was on the other side of the field and he had the underneath coverage on that side of the field.

Am I misremembering seeing him in fhe Panthers game?

I think Milk is right.

He played on special teams but zero snaps on defense.

Look the Browns executed tonight!! And BTW.. the Browns played alot of man tonight. I dont know why they cannot play zone but they manned up.. again.. Players have to ezecute

Joe earned his paycheque and can stay another week (lol). We still need better play from our DT's as our pass rush tonight was not exerting much pressure on MT....

Hi bb32 hope your well my friend !

I'm going to wait , 3 years to one game in a 4th QTR

Hoping it's getting better

Seems like the key is to have 12 players on the field.

Woods get a 1 week stay of execution.

Saw that, Stefanski didn’t look pleased

Hey, my friend! Doing good, I trust that you are as well. A lot less stress compared to our previous game(s)...

Stefanski has been a bit more emotional thus far this year. You can see him peeved with the D and STs

We still have defensive issues. Our DTs are weak. Delpit is terrible in coverage and our LBers are not the best tacklers. We also did not generate a pass rush last night. But overall, things were better. And yes, we did play a lot of man last night.

DT is a big area of concern, as it has been for most of us all offseason.

I think getting a stout DT and rangy FS would go a log ways for our defense

My concern is that we've known these positions to be issues since last season...and yet here we are...still...again.

3 weeks in a row we play a team with an offensive line in the bottom 3rd of the league. Our pash rush should have dominated all 3 games but has been mediocre at best.

So, WHAT DID JOE WOODS DO TO FIX HIS PROBLEM...PASS COVERAGE..!

Woods did the same thing he did last season when he got his butt in a jam with his confusing defenses that CREATED more problems than they solved...HE SIMPLIFIED HIS CONFUSING DEFENSIVE SCHEMES by simply assigning his DBs to play man to man defense, eliminating any doubt of whom was responsible for the deep threat.

This is the second time in two seasons that Woods attempted to play a confusing pass coverage that his players did not understand, resulting in blown coverage that cost the team WINS....and this is the 2nd time that Woods reverted back to MAN TO MAN coverage to fix the problem he created.

JMO, but I seriously doubt that Woods is going to a 3rd chance to EXPERIMENT with the Browns defense to the point that the defense GIVES GAMES AWAY !

TERRY PLUTO wrote the following this morning...link

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I’ve been a member of the chorus screaming, “What kind of pass coverages are the Browns playing? Why are all those receivers wide open? What is Joe Woods doing?”

The Browns defensive coordinator appears to have made things simple. He had top cornerbacks Denzel Ward and Greg Newsome II stay with their receivers – old fashioned man-to-man coverage. The safeties seem to be in the right spots.

Sure, Pittsburgh had some open receivers. This is the NFL. But they weren’t outrageously open. There was little finger pointing and waving arms from the defensive backs, seemingly blaming each other for mental mistakes.

The Browns held Pittsburgh to three points in the second half. They had trouble defending the run in the first two quarters, but shut it down after the half. Give credit to Woods and his coaches for making adjustments.

Again, Woods is not going to get a 3rd chance to make the same mistake...it will cost him his job if he doesn't tailor his defense to the talent he has on the field.

Playing man was the right decision last night. After reading a suggestion from Bull to play man against the Steelers in the Matchup thread, I posted some stats how much more Trubiski struggles against man than he does against zone. Coverages need to be mixed up. Playing straight man coverage each week would lead to teams getting killed.

It's great if you can generate a consistent pass rush with only your 4 DL, but no successful team expects to do it on each and every play, week in and week out ... even a poor OL can be effective when they already know what's coming at them.

Agreed.

But we really missed Clowney, and we often only rushed 4 (IIRC). Garrett did his job pressure-wise, though Steelers had him doubled all night.

Again, we missed Clowney.

I guess if you ignore the fact that talent wins out you would be correct. A teams OL ranking is dependent on what they can and can not do. That is usually dependent on their physical skill set. I don't think anyone is actually talking about "each and every play" or even "week in and week out". I think they're talking about the overall tendency not to get pressure against very weak opposing OL's.

The reason the Browns aren't getting pressure rushing four is the interior of the DL is horrendous. We've all know this since last season.

I'd love to be able to just rush four. Who wouldn't? LOL. However, almost no one can and that has been the case for years. We are going to have to blitz more. Not all the time, but more. I know Woods doesn't like to blitz, but we have to get pressure on the qb. Why we didn't blitz Flacco is beyond me. The guy can throw the football if you give him time. He is not good when pressured. We blitzed a bit more last year than in the preceding year, but we haven't blitzed much this year. I might look it up later.

This is what I posted the day after the Jets loss...

Quote

Problem with Ward's answer...he didn't cover the flat either...Ward was 20 yds downfield from the Jets TE who was running an out into the flat on Ward's side..AND WAS BEING COVERED BY BROWNS LB, #28, JOK who had that TE covered. Ward wasn't covering anyone..!

Common sense applied...who calls a defense that uses the Browns best cover corner to break off of a WR running a deep pattern so the Browns best corner can cover the opponents flat..? I'm not buying Ward's excuse.

Time to remove the excuses the defensive backs are attempting to use..time to establish "a rule" that takes priority over any defensive call made...when in doubt, no receiver is allowed to run by a Browns CB.

Deep coverage is the #1 responsibility for Browns CBs.

If there is any doubt, deep coverage is the #1 responsibility for Browns CBs.Last season, when the Browns worked to simplify pass coverage, they went to man to man coverage, which translated into our CBs covering deep routes man to man. That might be the best way to simplify pass coverage/blown coverages.

LIKE I SAID...COMMON SENSE DICTATES..you don't use your #1 cover corner (Ward) to COVER THE FLAT..!!..ESPECIALLY WHEN A WR is running a deep route to YOUR CB'S SIDELINE..!

AND, the Browns been through Joe Woods dream pass coverage screwups before and at least Stefanski remembers how we fixed the problem last year...CBs take the deep route on their side..!...PROBLEM SOLVED..!!!

I dont believe that is trure that talent always wins out. (If that where true then MG would get a pressure on every rush) There is not much separation in talent at this level ... what separates them at this level are their intangibles, playing with good technique and understanding the blocking and the protection schemes. Personally I dont want OL who do not play to the whistle ... and naturally it helps to have an aggressive nature.