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Is there an echo in here?
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Is there an echo in here? WHAT WHAT WHAT WHAt WHAt WHat WHat What What whaaaaa t whaaaa t Whaaa t whaa t MAYBE Maybe Maybeeeee maybeeee mayee b eeee
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Just joking. I appreciate all the information you provide.
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At this point we’ll take literally any DT with a chance to do anything
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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Not much info on this guy, but there is this college scouting report. Seems to me that he is the exact opposite of what is required from a 4-2-5 DT. NFL Draft Profile: Ben Stille, Defensive Tackle, Nebraska CornhuskersPos: DT Ht: 6036 Wt: 296 Hand: 948 Arm: 3218 Wing: 7928 40: Vertical: Broad: 3 Cone: Bench: Shuttle: DOB: 11/12/1997 Hometown: Ashland , NE High School: Ashland-Greenwood Ben Stille Nebraska Cornhuskers One Liners Versatile defensive lineman with below average, good quickness and poor strength. Pros Versatile defensive lineman in an odd front who aligns anywhere from nose tackle to five-technique. Stille times the snap and is quick off the ball, allowing him to penetrate gaps. His timing and hand placement as a pass rusher is very good. Stille has good balance when he keeps his pads low. Against wide zone runs, he uses his get-off to shoot gaps. His push-pull move punishes leaning blockers and allows him to shed. Stille possesses good recognition skills and bats passes by putting hands into throwing lanes. Cons Lacking size, length and strength, Stille gets displaced vertically in the run game and driven off the ball by combo blocks. He is unable to absorb body blows, getting finished by them. Sille is unable to generate knockback and often sees his power rushes stall. His hands are not violent, making him unable to beat the punch of blockers decisively. He does not deconstruct from latching blockers who often out reach him. His rip move is poor. Stille tackles very inconsistently as he is unable to wrap up ball carriers.https://www.si.com/nfl/draft/news/benstille
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Legend
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Tillery is probably worth a look That doesn't make sense. Sounds like BS to me. Teams expressed interest in trading but now the Chargers opt to cut the guy? That GM should be fired is there is any truth to that.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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At this point we’ll take literally any DT with a chance to do anything Might as well over the next several weeks. Somebody out there has a DT on their practice squad who might turn in to a player.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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At this point we’ll take literally any DT with a chance to do anything Indeed they will!
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I wonder if Milk has me on ignore? LOL
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Tackles are tackles.
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I wonder if Milk has me on ignore? LOL Oops again! My bad.
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This screams another light guy that will get swallowed up by blockers in the run game. No lessons learned.
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[urlhttps://www.si.com/nfl/draft/news/benstille[/url]
I mentioned elsewhere we might be looking to go to a 3-4 type front once Woods moves on.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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This screams another light guy that will get swallowed up by blockers in the run game. No lessons learned. Agreed.
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We'll need an even bigger NT if we go to 3-4 than we do w/the 4-2-5.
Woods is almost certainly gone and I know that fans/sports talk show hosts love firing coaches, but I think it sucks. Gotta give the new guy[s] time to get "their players." Pfftttt...
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j/c...
The Chargers took our fat guy.
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I have no idea how good/bad that dude is, but I think he fit the mold of the 4-2-5 NT more than our other guys.
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PFF Grades after 10 weeks of play and 9 games. Interesting items of note: A) Chubb, Bitonio, and Garrett continue with their dominance of their positions. B) Browns OT's are in a free fall with both currently performing at a disappointing PFF Backup Level. C) Ward continues to disappoint with a PFF Grade of 44.5 and ranking of 109th out of 115 CB's ranked. D) 18 of the Browns 29 defensive players are performing at a Replaceable Grade Level - 62.1%.
PFF GRADES THROUGH 9 Games and 10-weeks TOTAL OFFENSIVE GRADES: ___________________________________1 player currently performing at Elite Level 90-100 Chubb - RB - 90.6 - 2nd of 63 - Georgia - 2018 ___________________________________1 player currently performing at Pro Bowl Level 89-85 Bitonio - G - 89.3 - 1st of 82 - Nevada - 2014 ___________________________________6 players performing at Starter Level 84-70 Teller - G - 84.5 - 4th of 82 - Virginia Tech - 2018 Njoku - TE - 83.5 - 3rd of 73 - Miami, FL - 2017 Pocic - C - 83.0 - 2nd of 37 - LSU - 2017 Brissett - QB - 77.1 - 11th of 39 - NC State - 2016 Cooper - WR - 74.6 - 24th of 117 - Alabama - 2016 Froholdt - G - 71.9 - 13th of 82 - Arkansas - 2019 ___________________________________11 players currently performing at Backup Level 69-60 DPJ - WR - 68.6 - 46th of 117 - Michigan - 2020 Conklin - OT - 67.7 - 36th of 80 - Michigan St - 2016 Johnson - RB - 65.9 - NR - South Florida - 2019 Wills - OT - 65.3 - 45th of 80 - Alabama - 2020 Forbes - OG - 64.7 - NR - SE Missouri St - 2019 Hunt - RB - 63.0 - 51st of 63 - Toledo - 2017 Hudson - OT - 62.5 - 55th of 80 - Cincinnati - 2021 York - K - 62.3 - 28th of 42 - LSU - 2022 Dunn - OT - 61.1 - NR - Maryland - 2017 Forristall - TE - 60.1 - NR - Alabama - 2021 Haeg - OT - 60.0 - NR - N Dakota St - 2016 ___________________________________8 players currently performing at Replaceable Level 59-0 Brown - TE - 59.2 - 41st of 73 - Oregon - 2017 Woods II - WR - 56.7 - NR - Oklahoma - 2022 Felton - WR - 56.1 - NR - UCLA - 2021 Bell - WR - 55.9 - 103rd of 117 - Purdue - 2022 Bryant - TE - 54.7 - 59th of 73 - Florida Atlantic - 2020 Schwartz - WR - 49.5 - NR - Auburn - 2021 James - TE - 42.2 - NR - Penn St - 2015 Rogers - WR - 00.0 - NR - Grambling St - 2016 TOTAL DEFENSIVE GRADE ___________________________________1 player currently performing at Elite Level 90-100 Garrett - Edge - 92.6 - 1st of 119 - Texas A&M - 2017 ___________________________________0 players currently performing at Pro Bowl Level 89-85 ___________________________________6 players currently performing at Starter Level 84-70 Walker - LB - 82.7 - NR (Injured, out for season) - Northwestern - 2017 Stille - DT - 76.1 - NR - Nebraska - 2022 Bojorquez - P - 73.7 - 10th of 32 - New Mexico - 2018 Clowney - Edge - 73.2 - 35th of 119 - South Carolina - 2014 Emerson - CB - 73.2 - 22nd of 115 - Mississippi St - 2022 Takitaki - LB - 72.6 - 18th of 82 - BYU - 2019 ___________________________________4 players currently performing at Backup Level 69-60 JOK - LB - 69.3 - 24th of 82 - Notre Dame - 2021 D. Bell - S - 64.5 - NR - West Florida Argonauts - 2022 Kunaszyk - LB - 63.1 - NR - California - 2019 Newsome - CB - 62.1 - 58th of 115 - Northwestern - 2021 ___________________________________18 players currently performing Replaceable Level 59-0 Delpit - S - 59.9 - 58th of 85 - LSU - 2020 Johnson - S - 58.3 - 63rd of 85 - Boston Coll - 2017 Thomas - Edge - 58.1 - NR - Oklahoma - 2022 Williams - CB - 56.8 - NR - LSU - 2019 Rochell - Edge - 52.9 - NR - Notre Dame - 2017 (Waived 11/12) Perry - DT - 52.4 - NR - Illinois - 2022 (Waived 11/14) Green - CB - 51.2 - NR - Oklahoma St - 2020 Bryan - DT - 48.3 - 92nd of 122 - Florida - 2018 Winfrey - DT - 45.6 - NR - Oklahoma - 2022 Fields -- LB - 45.4 - NR - West Virginia - 2021 Ward - CB - 44.5 - 109th of 115 - Ohio St - 2018 Harrison - S - 43.0 - NR - Alabama - 2018 Winovich - Edge - 42.4 - NR - Michigan - 2019 Wright - Edge - 40.3 - 117th of 119 - UAB - 2022 Phillips - LB - 36.7 - 78th of 82 (injured, out for season) - LSU - 2020 Jones - LB - 36.3 - NR - LSU - 2016 Elliott - DT - 34.3 - 114th of 122 - Missouri - 2020 Togiai - DT - 30.3 - 120th of 122 - Ohio St - 2021 NR = Not Ranked due to not having snap minimum SCALE: 100 - 90 = Elite level of play 85-89 = Pro Bowl level of play 84-70 = Starter level of play 69-60 = Backup level of play 59-0 = Replaceable level of play
Just "KICKING THAT CAN DOWN the ROAD"
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Wrong forum
Last edited by mac; 11/15/22 01:59 PM.
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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j/c...
The Chargers took our fat guy. The Chargers cut a former 2019 1st Rdr that 8-or-so teams tried to claim...and then they go and snatch a DT from OUR Practice Squad. Last I read on another site, Woods claimed that Davison wasn't ready yet. What a train wreck. Who is in charge here?
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j/c...
The Chargers took our fat guy.
It seems odd that the Chargers cut Tillery, the former 1st round pick, and 8 teams put in a claim for him and then the Chargers grabbed a guy anyone could have claimed off of our PS. It's either Tillery is a huge troublemaker or the Chargers are dumb. Maybe both are true.
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Our DTs are about the worst of the worst, especially Togiai who as been all but the worst in the entire league all season. Pathetic.
If it's not Chaos, it's not Cleveland.
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Honestly, the entire fiasco at DT is hard to understand.
We sign Taven Bryan a 6'5" 290 athletic guy who is a 3 technique.
Jordan Elliott is 6'4" 300 guy. This is his third year. He has showed little. He beefed up and was hyped as a ready player at DT.
Tommy Togiai is 6'2" 296 a mid draft pick
Then they drafted Perrion Winfrey 6'4" 290 3 tech with issues.
Two guys who are given the starting job Bryan and Elliott and two unproven young backups.
How are these four guys suppose to hold down the middle and provide gap integrity?
I can understand wanting to develop guys. But trying to develop these four at the same time?
How about two vets in rotation with two guys you feel confident will develop.
The four we have is like playing the lottery. Then sitting back and counting on it.
I like Berry but to me this was a bad plan for DT. When it can be seen as a liability to exploit.
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As suspected, our OTs stink right now
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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As suspected, our OTs stink right now Did you mean DTs? Our OTs had one bad game. Otherwise, they have been pretty good.
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Honestly, the entire fiasco at DT is hard to understand.
We sign Taven Bryan a 6'5" 290 athletic guy who is a 3 technique.
Jordan Elliott is 6'4" 300 guy. This is his third year. He has showed little. He beefed up and was hyped as a ready player at DT.
Tommy Togiai is 6'2" 296 a mid draft pick
Then they drafted Perrion Winfrey 6'4" 290 3 tech with issues.
Two guys who are given the starting job Bryan and Elliott and two unproven young backups.
How are these four guys suppose to hold down the middle and provide gap integrity?
I can understand wanting to develop guys. But trying to develop these four at the same time?
How about two vets in rotation with two guys you feel confident will develop.
The four we have is like playing the lottery. Then sitting back and counting on it.
I like Berry but to me this was a bad plan for DT. When it can be seen as a liability to exploit. I agree. I think all GM's have some weakness when building a team....or at least many. For whatever reason DT seems to be a position where we hope to get by on the cheap. I don't know if we just don't think the position is all that skilled and the feeling is we can get by with nearly anybody at the position or we just don't do a good job of evaluating what is needed at the position. Winfrey was a guy who was hyped and had some decent tape but it is apparent the guy has mental issues which somehow should have been identified in the scouting process.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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j/c...
The Chargers took our fat guy. The Chargers cut a former 2019 1st Rdr that 8-or-so teams tried to claim...and then they go and snatch a DT from OUR Practice Squad. Last I read on another site, Woods claimed that Davison wasn't ready yet. What a train wreck. Who is in charge here? So, you have to ask yourself: How can a guy be in the league for 7-years split between 3 teams and now on a team's practice squad with the worst DT's in the entire NFL and the DC makes a statement that that the guy's not ready yet? Did the Browns have him stashed on the PC because he had "Potential?" If you have the worst DT's in the NFL on your roster, what the heck are you doing with a 7-year vet DT sitting on your PS? Don't know if Davison was any good or not but when you have the worst DT's in the league on your game day roster and another team swoops in and takes a DT from your PS - you have some serious issues going on with your team.
Just "KICKING THAT CAN DOWN the ROAD"
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Winfrey was a guy who was hyped and had some decent tape but it is apparent the guy has mental issues which somehow should have been identified in the scouting process. He was a wildcard at best. I think it's hard to identify in scouting how a player translates when handed a 1M signing bonus and a 5M contract.
HERE WE GO BROWNIES! HERE WE GO!!
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Draft picks are hit and miss as well as everything in between. The lower the round typically the closer to miss.
The way I look at defensive tackle is in the draft look for profiles to fit the scheme. Then when drafting depending on the round try to understand how long before he can start.
Have a few in the pipeline and monitor them. In the meantime augment with vets that fit the budget on short term deals.
I understand developing guys can take time up to three years. After that they are either in your plans or you move on from them.
IMO you have to look at the defensive front as a unit. How will they work as a unit?
So, you have Myles, Alex Wright looks to be the future at the other DE.
Who will fit with our two DE's starters? How do you want them to play? What profile should they fit?
The DC, HC, and GM have to be on the same page. This is how the front four should look and play. This is how the players compliment each other. These are the types stunts etc. we plan to use. These are the roles of each player in the unit.
As I look at the current front four and depth chart. I am confused. How is this a unit?
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I could not find anywhere else to put this, so I put here because we run the ball a lot. A lot of football shows are filled w/fluff, but this was actually an educational and enlightening discussion on the continued evolution of NFL offenses and defenses. No hot takes. No controversy. Just football talk w/good data to back up their claims.
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Winfrey was a guy who was hyped and had some decent tape but it is apparent the guy has mental issues which somehow should have been identified in the scouting process. He was a wildcard at best. I think it's hard to identify in scouting how a player translates when handed a 1M signing bonus and a 5M contract. Maybe it is just me. Scouting is more than watching tape and going to a game or practice. Once you start to identify players you also need to talk to coaches, players. For top type picks I'd even follow them around....see where they go, who they hang with, how they act. All of that is important.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Winfrey was a guy who was hyped and had some decent tape but it is apparent the guy has mental issues which somehow should have been identified in the scouting process. He was a wildcard at best. I think it's hard to identify in scouting how a player translates when handed a 1M signing bonus and a 5M contract. Maybe it is just me. Scouting is more than watching tape and going to a game or practice. Once you start to identify players you also need to talk to coaches, players. For top type picks I'd even follow them around....see where they go, who they hang with, how they act. All of that is important. I agree 100. He was an early round prospect with 1st round hype. Most thought he would be gone by the late second at the latest. We knew 'above the shoulders' was a crapshoot, we gambled and (seemingly) lost. I'm not going to complain. It was a good stab at upside in the 4th round. My comment is merely stating that when there are questions with attitude, off-field issues, it's hard to forecast how real money may play a role. Let's be honest, we've had problems working with players that have off-the-field issues, I think we handle them with too much leniency and use 'kid hands'. We've also set precedent with allowing players to basically force their way out of Cleveland and allow them to flex their strong personalities. These are two areas where I feel Berry needs to grow... and the attitude needs to follow downline through the staff.
HERE WE GO BROWNIES! HERE WE GO!!
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j'c:
Interesting stat on DPJ:
Tackles are tackles.
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Originally Posted by Ballpeen Winfrey was a guy who was hyped and had some decent tape but it is apparent the guy has mental issues which somehow should have been identified in the scouting process. I haven't read Perrion Winfrey's name in the police blotter and there are no reports of him flipping his car 10 times to avoid an imaginary deer...just what has he done to be benched for the entire 2022 season...???
Why do the Browns have to be the "Goody Two Shoes" of the NFL..?
Put Perrion on the field..in practice and in the games and let him burn off some of that excess piss and vinegar he seems to have trouble getting out of his system by letting him bust his butt on the field..!
Every roster has a few who have trouble conforming to the NFL...maybe the Browns should challenge him to produce on the field...just a thought..!!
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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Originally Posted by Ballpeen Winfrey was a guy who was hyped and had some decent tape but it is apparent the guy has mental issues which somehow should have been identified in the scouting process. I haven't read Perrion Winfrey's name in the police blotter and there are no reports of him flipping his car 10 times to avoid an imaginary deer...just what has he done to be benched for the entire 2022 season...???
Why do the Browns have to be the "Goody Two Shoes" of the NFL..?
Put Perrion on the field..in practice and in the games and let him burn off some of that excess piss and vinegar he seems to have trouble getting out of his system by letting him bust his butt on the field..!
Every roster has a few who have trouble conforming to the NFL...maybe the Browns should challenge him to produce on the field...just a thought..!!This is what happens on a team devoid of leadership.
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Thanks for posting that Vers.
For the most part I have given up on tv talk because it has turned into a mic fight to say something clever.
That discussion had substance.
In a way it explains why the Browns are playing a 4-2-5. Athletes in space. Linebackers are no longer 255 trained in stack and shed.
They have to cover in order to stay on the field. That is why I was hyped on JOK because he is a new wave player.
Why are all of our DT's 3 tech's? Because they wanted penetration rather than gap integrity. What happened? McDaniels ran it right up the gut.
I have been watching pro football since 1960. I have seen all the changes. Every offensive and defensive adjustments to trends.
There really is nothing new. Everything just gets recycled. I knew the run game would come back.
When I figured out what Woods vision was. I agreed because the pass was becoming dominate. The run game was stagnant.
When Stefanski was hired. I saw his background. I was in favor of the Shanahan scheme. I believe in the WZB scheme and play action.
Woods has not adjusted because he can't. The roster can not adjust right now.
I want to run a true 4-3. The only difference is I want the OLB's to be like JOK. I want the mike to be able to stack and shed. I want big agile DT's.
Guys who can plug but can also push the pocket.
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I figured that not many would watch that video, but I also thought you would be one of the very few to check it out. Some like to learn. Others not so much. I love discussions like that one. It's pure football. I found it interesting that so many defenses were designed to slow down the Shannahan/Kubiak scheme and that now Shanny is at the forefront of introducing more "power" running plays. We should be in good shape w/the two guards we have. It is also an absolute must that we get better in the middle of our defense. This is not going to take over the league, but it's another wrinkle that defenses will once again have to game plan for.
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