DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum The Watson Trade continued

Defense definitely wins Championships.

In fact, defense gets you to the playoffs. Our season is a great example of that with all of the early-season crapfests our defense had that cost us.

In the game last night, the team that last was able to stop the other offense went on to win. In games where you get into a shootout, the team that has the defense that can turn a 7 into a 3 even just once will win.

Offense gets the glory these days in todays Pinball NFL, but that actually further highlights the value of defense.

Defense is the only side of the ball that can keep the opponent from score, and put up point themselves.

If your defense can't stop the opponent from scoring TDs it doesn't matter how good your offense is.

Exactly! That is why I gave our organization so much credit for making the trade. Despite other teams wanting Watson, we were the ones who won the Watson Sweepstakes and came away w/a great qb when there seemingly was no hope. Great job by the Browns leadership in getting us a great player in the most important position in sports.

He certainly was a great player. We'll see what the future holds. Other teams didn't make the offer the Browns did. Only one team complained they didn't get the opportunity to match. It seems like when it comes right down to it, only one other team was willing to pay the hefty cost the Browns were willing to pay. The Browns gave watson what they thought was a fair offer. He rebuked them and crossed them off of his list. Then in a last minute desperation move, they sold the farm to get him. Desperation doesn't usually work out very well. Maybe this time that will end differently. Let's hope so.

We had to trade for DW whether it was popular or not. We weren't going to the Super Bowl with Baker. I realize that now. We needed a big upgrade at QB. Hopefully we got it.

We had to trade for Watson because Baker threw a temper tantrum and demanded to be traded after we met with Watson.

I'm no fan of the trade, but I'm nervous about the part in white. Others say he has shown he is elite, but I haven't seen it... And him flopping would 100% be the browns-iest thing that could happen. But I heard what he said at the end of the season, and I see zero sense in wasting the offseason fretting about Watson. He will either be more of what he was this year or much improved. I can't imagine his pride will let him play that badly again, and I do think most of it was rust, the new team/situation/coaching, etc. So, we need to hit a pause on bashing the trade and see how next year plays out. If we finish under 500 next year, heads need to roll. And if we don't make the playoffs, the Watson deal becomes a nightmare (like the part in blue), and people will be talking bust. Finally, before certain people respond with spite, I would like to clarify that I am not hoping for DW to fail; on the contrary, that is what I fear with this whole situation and hope like hell we avoid.

Additionally, I'm still not ready to throw away 50 years of fandom over the Watson deal. But man, if we get a full season of what he did this year or something better but nowhere near elite and miss the playoffs again... I'd have to think long and hard about sticking around. I'm tired of feeling like we are almost there. Many of us thought this would be our year before this trade. What we ended up getting was another dose of battered Browns Fan material to stew on all season. go browns...

My question for everyone regarding the Watson deal is: Putting aside any bias for or against Watson and providing specifics, please define your expectations for next season and what would qualify for a Boom, Solid, Meh, and Yuck season to you. This should lead to more constructive conversation and less trifling pettiness.

My expectation for this team is to become a perennial playoff contender. I don't think it is realistic to expect the team to make the playoffs every year. But like the Steelers and Ravens have proved. With consistency and following a plan a team can be a constant threat to be in the post season and when healthy and a few breaks fall your way a serious threat to get to and win Super Bowls. I expect nothing less from this team. For 20+ years the franchise tried unsuccessfully to acquire a franchise QB although, I thought they gave up on a few too soon before they found adequate replacements (Derek Anderson and Brian Hoyer). They finally went all in to acquire a franchise QB and now they must install a plan to achieve consistency. I don't want to see us pull a Rams let's put all our eggs in 1 basket season and then back to the bottom of the totem pole. Although, if it was a near certainty, they would win 1 Super Bowl I would be all in. Problem is the Rams barely won that SB last year and if they had lost that all in gamble would have been for naught. Follow the Steelers Big Ben plan. Find the QB and devise a plan to contend year after year. Much like Marty did in the late 80's before Modell got impatient. Knock on the door year after year. Knock long enough and you will eventually kick it in.

I don't have expectations for things I can't control. I like the move of trading for Watson for the reasons I stated not too long ago in this thread. I think we have a chance. There are no guarantees, but we have a better chance w/Watson than we did w/any other qb options that were available to us at the time we made the trade. I hope we win. But, I'm not drawing lines in the sand and say this has to happen or that has to happen because again......I have no freaking control over what happens and no one of importance gives a rat's ass what I think.

And that's true. None of us can control it and that's certainly one way to look at it. But the other, and what I think is a more realistic way of looking at this is the reality that football is a business. Each team is a billion dollar corporation that is in a conglomerate of 32 teams that make up a very large corporation. The NFL.

As with all businesses they make investments and the expected return on that investment is very real. Corporations don't invest this heavily in anything without factoring in the risk/reward portion. So I think it's quite understandable that people ask what that is. At what point would the reward of watson be equal or greater to the investment?

I understand those who wish to look at it purely from the fan perspective and not wish to hold the reward portion accountable in relationship to the investment. But that's not quite how the real world works.

Football is a business. It's a business that guys like me don't run. Like all consumers, I have a choice to buy the product or not. That is my choice.

I can guarantee you that Haslam doesn't care what expectations Vers from Dawg Talkers has. He runs his business as he and his trusted advisors want to. I can pretty much guarantee that they do prioritize winning and are trying their best.

I just get a chuckle when folks come on here and say things like "I don't want to hear anymore excuses." I say.........."Or what?" Their just idle words spoken by people who think they are more important than they really are. The only thing that they can really do is stop supporting the team. Fine. Stop supporting them and move on to something else. Who cares?

Nobody said he cared what any of us thought. But he cares what he expects from his investment. As I said in my previous post......

It's a figure of speech. It's how people talk when they are having a discussion about things. In reality no-one on this board, for the most part, actually talks about and reveals personal things in their lives that they do control and can/do influence. Pretty sure people have used the same expressions about plenty of other players on the team since 1999 that were supposed to be good and struggled. Drafted high and struggled. Got injured or had other things going on and then struggled. . . just normal conversation.

And what does that have to do with "our" expectations? Absolutely nothing.

We get it; you have no expectations. I DO have expectations as a fan, and it's cool if you think that is stupid. What do you know about being a fan? I think everyone is a fan in their way. Some buy Jerseys and go to games, others watch with friends and get together, and others watch from the comfort of home with or without company. I don't think it's even possible to define "what a fan is or does" in a way that would cover all the variations. You can see a bunch of variations right here every day. So, I get how you feel, Vers, but I think the conversation is big enough for two views.

I am not trying to stop you from having your own opinion. I was just answering your question honestly from my point of view.

Well I guess that is a comfortable position to be in. I mean if you have absolutely no expectations you can never be disappointed with the outcome. It also holds nobody accountable should things go poorly. I mean they tried and spent a lot of money so that makes everything good.

Why do you care about my position? My position doesn't affect you in any way. It's my own. The only reason you would care is that you feel some need to control the opinions of others.

WTH are you talking about? The least of my concerns are your opinions. I just find it a very convenient opinion so as not to hols anyone responsible if the Browns do poorly.

You may wish to consider how this started out if you wish to actually look at who tried to control the narrative here. It was you who asked posters so what when they did have high expectations. That nobody in this FO or coaching staff cared about their expectations. Or did you forget about that? How did their opinions affect you in any way? You just love to start crap and then whine it's somebody elses fault when it gets turned around on you.

And yes, this FO does care about the expectations of the fan base. Why else would they pay a kings ransom for a QB? Unless of course you think it was done only to please their own goals. As with any corporation pleasing their consumer base is of great importance to them.

You have serious issues.

Back at ya.

Why did they pay a king's ransom as you say for a QB. In 2020, they saw this team as close and went and added pieces in 2021 and felt they had the best roster in the NFL. They arguably did! Then got passed up by the Bengals because the Bengals had a far superior QB to what they had. They felt then and still feel today they have a window to win and needed to get a QB that was equal to their competition. Did they do it for the fan base? I don't know. There were quite a few Baker fans. So, I would say they made an evaluation, and the decision was made popular or not because they want to win.

I see you missed the point by a country mile. The point is they do care about what the fans think. The fans are their customer base. That's why they went that far to sign watson and pay that much money to make it happen. Of course the owner and FO care about the fans. They can't do so to the point they control their every move. But people shouldn't fool themselves into believing they aren't at the very least trying to appease the fan base.

They ”felt they have the best roster in the NFL”!?!?

Deshaun Watson will never win a Super Bowl with the Cleveland Browns. Those who want can quote me on that.

This post isn’t criticizing you Day of the Dawg. Your post is spot on but in a weird way it also highlight why the leadership in this organization is incompetent. Not even 230 millions can hide the lack of good leaders and cure an unhealthy culture.

"Deshaun Watson will never win a Super Bowl with the Cleveland Browns. Those who want can quote me on that."

That is like saying you know what the weather will be for four years.

Yes. The winter will be cold as usual and the summer will be warm. The same way DSW will not be good enough to win a SB. Not exactly rocket science to predict that.

I think you are full of it and are only saying this because you don't like Watson.

I think he may return to his 2020 form. He also may not. Trying to predict that is something that nobody can accurately do. Even if he does that doesn't insure a SB win or even a SB appearance. Everyone has to wait and see how that pans out.

We don't have to wait and see anymore, it is pretty clear what the Browns are and they aren't getting any better. I have no confidence in reports/things you read that the offense will be "totally different" next year. HILL>ARIOUS that is.
I don't think the Browns could fix the offense at this point if... if anything, anything at all.

and, but, Watson? "return to 2020 form?" What the #****? Did he win league MVP or something in 2020? I don't think he has won 2 playoff games in his career, I doubt he wins 2 on a Browns team that the league hates and discriminates against because they play in Ohio.

The Browns,,, can't develop anybody into a better player, not since Depo opened his office with the team, and, are they going to count on Woods, and Bell, and ... Harrison> for the love of goodness > Bryant to win games and make plays for you in crunch time in next year./. This years games??? Yeah, YA heck ya yep they are.
It's not going to work out, it's not hard to see, they aren't good, this isn't the league where , well...
It appears to be more of the same.
If ANYTHING new has been tried by the Browns since 20I7 I wonder what it is because it looks like nothing but the same old losing recipe
especially on offense
trying to hope "leftovers" can win a cooking contest. Twelfth place in the AFC and seven and ten, it's analytics ya'll, welcome to the same.

Yes my friend I'm whatever you want me to be and being full of something is probably better then just being empty.

But to clarify a little bit the prediction that the Browns not winning a Super Bowl in the near future this rant isn't a question at Deshaun Watson's talent or ability. He's a freaking awesome QB when fit, healthy and in a mentally stabil condition. Not as good as Mahomes or Burrow but probably top 10 among all NFL QBs.

The thing we don't know is his future ability. Will he ever come back to his 2020 season form? i don't think so for various reasons. I think he's mentally drained after all the media circus surrounding his sex allegations. Im not sure about his character. When a highly respected female judge label him as a lier and a sexual predator then its only normal to question what kind of person he is. Two years without a competitive game is also a handicap I took into account.

All of that above raise question marks but I totally agree that we don't know exactly what kind of player we get in 2023. We can only make a qualified guess made on assumptions.


The much much bigger problem is the Browns owner, GM and HC. Not to mention our cap space. That's why I'm totally sure the Browns don't win the SB in the near future.

The Haslam's record speaks for itself. Feels free to convince me I'm wrong when I say they're one of the worst owners you can ever get.

Andrew Berry has done almost nothing so far to convince me he has what it takes. His drafts and FA are hit and misses. His handlings of high profile players is mediocre to bad at best. His press conference when he introduced DSW was a total fiasco, and that is to put it mildly. So far there's nothing in his CV that screams that he's an elite GM.

Kevin Stefanski is at best a top 15 HC in the NFL. Probably closer to top 20. Same with him there's nothing in his CV that tells us he's a elite HC. After 3 years his results speaks for itself. Mediocre. Boring.

None of Berry or Ski has elite leadership qualities. 3 years with them is enough to give me the information I need to make such a bold and harsh statement. I'm almost 60 years old with many many years experience in management so I'm quite sure I can spot the difference between an average and an elite leader.

If we had a better owner. If we had a HC like Andy Reid or Kyle Shanahan and a DC worth his salt then my prediction would have been different but with current set up including the misfit Paul DePodesta I'm totally convinced and relaxed when I'm saying the Browns will not win a SB in the next couple of years. Not nice being so negative but this's IMHO what a weak leadership do to a talented group of players.

Kevin Stefanski. Three years of mediocre results. A downward spiral. Losing winnable games. Talk talk talk… Do you need more?
Andrew Berry. Three years of mediocre results. A downward spiral. Controversies. Talk talk talk… Do you need more?

In the three seasons including 2019 you are referencing with the Bengals they won more games each year, not less games each year. And even more in the fourth year. In that third year you are speaking of they actually advanced to the SB.

Expectations of Continuous Improvement from our FO and Coaching Staff - what a freaking novel idea! Too bad going the other way has also been deemed as just as acceptable on this forum and by ownership.

I'm not nor have I advocated for anyone in this FO nor Stefanski to be fired. I do however think there should be no more excuses given nor accepted if next season isn't very successful. Supposedly this team was only a great QB away from being great and supposedly this FO got Stefanski that QB. If they didn't it's a mistake of epic proportions considering what they gave up to get him. So accountability is on deck and will be up to bat in the 2023 season.

I wasn't referencing you as wanting Berry or Stefanski fired. My point was that continuous improvement year over year has been nonexistent. Now entering year-4 you state:



Some of us here believe accountability should have been occuring since year 1.