DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus Build That Wall

The threads with people complaining about Trump building the wall are archived now. I doubt they were any better than threads now.

The thing with generalizations is that you use them because they can generally be applied anywhere. Even if people don't like it. It applies, just not in the way you would like it to. Heck, I don't like that it applies. Unfortunately, it does.

I think if you looked back you would find that for some of us it is was far more about the absurdity of it all. The entire "And Mexico will pay for it!"

The crowds went wild believing that BS and have never called him to account for it then or since then.

The problem here is that the topic being discussed, people making the false claim others had posted that "the border was secure", that didn't happen. Now if you wish to guide the topic off course about how generalizations apply in terms of other things, I might tend to agree with you.

Concerning the actual context of what we were discussing, people on the board making the accusation that other posters were making the claim that the border was secure, not only is a generalization that it happened not correct it's actually false information. Or as some call that, a lie.

So while your premise has merit that many times generalizations are a summation of the overall message being sent, it does not apply in this situation.

The chronology of the week that FATE posted.

Posters didn't specify that people on the board said it. They simply stated that it had been said. Your perception was that they were saying that people on the board said it. It goes back to group psychology, I think. When someone says something about someone in a group one belongs to or empathizes with, frequently one assumes they are saying it about everyone in the group and one's self.

There is a paradox with immigration.

On one hand, uncontrolled immigration stresses the resources.

On the other hand we have essentially a very low birth rate, and growth is a by product of immigration.

So no immigration does not work either.

The great fear in the GOP is that those who would show up are more likely to democrats if they eventually received citizenship.

That is why dreamers are shut out. Texas is fighting a battle of demographics as well as philosophy. Texas turning blue would essentially end the chances of a republican ever entering the White House.

I don't agree with blanket amnesty for anyone showing up at the boarder and making a claim of religious or political persecution.

Amnesty has been a charge since Reagan.

I am all for a structured policy that allows a mix of people and skill sets, but figuring that out will eventually lead to allegations of racism, and that is why the discussion is so toxic.

We need to create a good method to citizenship for those entering legally with some punishment for those that enter illegally/

I would give anyone already in this country a limited amount of time to file paperwork to make there presence legal.
Any new border crossing need to file proper paperwork

I would then require proof of paying taxes, say for 5 years

Anyone caught entering or in this country afterwards would be deported and prohibited from initiating the process for 5 years
A 2nd offense would add an additional 10 years to begin the process.
A 3rd offense would get prison time then deportation on release.

This is just an initial thought. I am sure there is a lot more that would go into it and the timeframes would be debatable but the underlying framework is the point. Create a path to citizenship, punish those that break the rules.

Or we can finally stop acting like our neighbors south of the border are different from us, and start actually practicing capitalism and get some trade deals done.

But that’s hard work and it’s easier to just demonize everyone I guess.

That may work on planet Nirvana, but not here on planet Earth year 2023.

And no, they are different, not that it is good or bad, but different.

As posted by arch above......


You were saying?

You repeatedly posted that the border crisis wasnt a problem.

You'll have to forgive me for not going back and reading every post. (Please excuse me? "You'll have to forgive me" is an awkward phrase) The one you were directly replying to didn't seem to say it. Trying to scan through entire threads of mostly "angry 'noises' devoid of real meaning" word for word isn't something I want to spend my time doing. Didn't see it when I skimmed through looking for it. Trying to do it on a phone probably didn't help.

Random question: Do you use the entire thread viewing option? Using the word "above" made me wonder.

I read the new responses to every thread. So yes, I read the entire threads on each topic. When you look it gives you how many new responses there are to each thread. The board has a "post jumper" feature that returns you to where those new response begin so you can pick up where you left off the last time you read a thread. So when you go back to a thread you don't need to sort though or try to figure out where you left off the last time you were on that thread. I have no idea if that's the way it works on your phone or the phone of others but it's a very convenient feature this board has. Quite a time saver and you never miss a new post.

I was more asking if from the sub forum page you click the all link for particular threads. Instead of having page 1, page 2, page 3, everything shows up on 1 webpage and one can scroll through all of it. Instead of something on page 1 being "above" something on page 3, it'd literally be above it on the same page.

Just clicking on the thread title works the same way as far as new posts on mobile. It is a bit harder to write a post and check something in a different tab at the same time, though. Can't really have them both open at the same time.

Was just wondering, since I tend to think (maybe more interpret) literally by default.

I see the newest posts first in order, followed by other pages. That usually encompasses every thread that has been responded to for a few days.

Lol. Geez bro.

Really my man, what trade deals could we make with Mexico that would be anywhere near equal in benefit? Us ship more jobs south of the border so they can ship the finished goods back? That might help provide jobs for the people down there and they wouldn't be looking to swim the Rio, but it wouldn't help the jobs outlook in this country.

I understand that. If I haven't been keeping up with a thread, I don't read through 2-3 pages. Now i just add my comments. Then I may sift through some of the earlier comments.

I was addressing a question from someone else. How you decide to use the board is up to you and everyone who uses it as they see fit.

As for your comments about jobs being sent south of the border, you may wish to address the corporations doing that so they can pay cheap foreign labor and avoid our laws. At least now America is seeing an increase in new manufacturing jobs which is something positive.

Well , mayorkas testified before congress and said repeatedly that “the border is secure”. If the lefties on this board did not parrot the line it is only because they saw how really really stupid it was to say it.

Now of course Pit, you did say repeatedly that “under biden border policies crossings are at a two year low. When I thought about that I started to wonder. Given the numbers at the border what data points were you referencing when you said that? Could not have been a year , probably not a month. Was it a week, a day, a hour?? When things at the border were at a two year low? Just curious. What I think is you were being deliberately deceptive. You were trying to portray biden’s policies at the border a success. Of course they were not.

Facts are that biden’s best year for border control , 2021, had about 800,000 more crossings than trumps worst year. And the years since 2021 have been a disaster with over 2 million in 2022 and about 2.5 million this FY which is about to end.

You keep saying the only way to fix the border problem is for congress to legislate. Not true at all. I laid out a plan on here to first fix the border, then deal with legislation, not the other way around. Border control first!

It was on a per month basis shortly after Trump's "covid emergency" policy ended and Biden instituted new policies. There was a link confirming the data if you wish to go back and look it up rather than be months late to the party and try to dispute it. And once again you missed the mark. We were discussing "what people on this board had posted" not the Democratic party in reference to the border being secure.

Some people can see the BS coming from both parties. And Democrats saying the border was secure is no less BS than Mexico is going to pay for the wall.

j/c:

The walking back on this issue is hilarious to read.

Clowns and sheep.

Who is walking anything back? Statistics are either correct incorrect or not at the time they are given. They will always change or fluctuate moving forward. Nothing about my post is "walking anything back". I'm sorry you haven't been paying attention to what was posted and when it was posted and just come casually by after the fact and make claims that aren't true. That's what's hilarious.

For libs, it's been a two+ year exercise in speaking out of both sides of the same big mouth.

Who are you referring to here?

As I said... libs. But you're certainly included.

Then what you posted was a lie. Coming from people who have refused to address anything the leader of the party they support says or does by deflecting it on others who do address it is the purest form of cowardice.

Ahhh... "Trump".

Thanks for proving my point.

At least part of the wall needs built. Biden doing so isn’t xenophobic. Just as it wasn’t xenophobic when Trump suggested it. We are being overwhelmed with people from all over the globe crossing our southern border.

Yes we also need comprehensive border policies. I am all for interviewing those who want to come here and do background checks on them for the purpose of filling jobs in fields we need. Allow those people in and give them a path to citizenship. Just do it in your own country and come when approved. Institute E-Verify and throw all those illegally here out as well as fine the crap out of corporations that hire people wi th out valid work permits.

While I don't think 29 miles of additional border wall will make any difference one way or the other, I'm certainly in agreement that we need to tighten the border and reform our immigration laws. The entire "do it in your own country" would mean that immigration law would need to be rewritten. And only congress can do that.

We have seen DeSantis send National Guard troops to the border. Florida, North Dakota, Idaho, Nebraska, Iowa, West Virginia, Ohio, Oklahoma, South Carolina and Mississippi have all sent National Guard troops to the southern border. Abbott even set up razor wire on the banks of the Rio Grande and flotation devices in the river to help stop the surge of illegals entering our country. Thus far none of that has worked.

I enjoy when you join this forum, P.

Sorry Pit , but you posted on multiple occasions the “fact” that under Biden border policies border crossings were at a two year low. You said it repeatedly over a period of time. I would guarantee you that you were not saying that only during this month when you say crossings were low. You said it to support biden border policies when crossings were going thru the roof . Instead of admitting that current border policies were creating a disaster at the border you stuck with the same line when challenged about the border.

I would like you and me to drill down in this supposed two year low ostensibly due to biden border policies. I am looking at CPB stats right now for encounters. You obviously could not be referring to 2022 or 2023 because those monthly numbers range from a low of 145k to a high of 241k. Clearly there were no 2 year lows in there. In 2021 the year started with 72k and rose to 213k by the end of the FY. In 2020 the high during Trumps last FY was 58k. I see no way mathmatically for biden policies to have provided a two year low in border crossings.

Now it is true that the first two months of FY 21 were November and December of 2020 and were under trump policies. They were also the lowest numbers for 2021.

I just cannot see a way for what you said to be accurate but I also think what you said is irrelevant. The overwhelming data shows biden border policies to be a complete failure, and even the administration is admitting it now.

I posted during the time period that it was true only. If you have any evidence to the contrary please bring some evidence of that. You are either wrong or you're lying.

Illegal border crossings dip to lowest level in over 2 years

https://www.politico.com/news/2023/07/18/illegal-border-crossings-drop-00106934

That was Jun of 2023. It's not my fault you came late to the party claiming things that aren't true.

The border now certainly is a complete disaster. Even after Florida, North Dakota, Idaho, Nebraska, Iowa, West Virginia, Ohio, Oklahoma, South Carolina and Mississippi have all sent National Guard troops to the southern border. Abbott even set up razor wire on the banks of the Rio Grande and flotation devices in the river to help stop the surge of illegals entering our country. Thus far none of that has worked.

If you plan to just keep repeating the same incorrect rhetoric, bring some evidence next time. It wasn't that long ago.

Ah, I see what you did. June of 2023. I never even looked at 23. Why?? Because numbers ranged from 145k (the month you were so excited about) to 200k+ for the entire 12 months. Ghastly numbers throughout the year. Much like 2022 wasn’t it. We know you were not just citing a month though. You were trying to send a message to everyone. Look Joe Biden border policies are working!! The question in my mind is “did you actually believe that or were you attempting to deceive?

Another question. In any of these posts did you specify the number of crossings or did you just say they were down? Also did you do a follow up post that august crossings had gone back up by 40-45k and September was up to over 200k. Answer to that was is of course because that would defeat the purpose of your misleading posts wouldn’t it. That would have shown that biden border policies were not working, were in fact, a disaster. But you did not want people to see that did you?

So you cited a one month stat that flew in the face of all the data. Really deceptive. Btw if people want to know, that one month low was of 145k. The last 3 months of trumps final FY averaged about 50k. 50k and you are trumpeting 145k as some sort of victory for biden border policies.

Btw, talk about late to the party, we are three years into this mess and you admit that under biden border policies the border is a disaster. Where have you been? Never mind that bidens second month in office we broke the 100k barrier and it has done nothing but go up since. Yes it is a complete disaster and Biden policies are to blame. It is too bad you lefties spent three years in denial instead of picking up your phone and calling your congressperson (if a dem) and tell to work with the repubs to get our border under control. The fact that everything these governors have done to help out has not fixed the problem should tell people like you how horribly bad it has gotten under biden border policies.

So you think I'm going to go back through months of posts because you want your questions answered? Do your own homework. It seems even now that I have proven that in June of 2023 that the numbers were the lowest in two years you still protest. Why would me posting the actual numbers be an attempt to deceive anyone? Is that what you call stating actual statistics now? There was nothing misleading about stating that fact.

Let's talk about what's misleading shall we? Trump era border policies did not end until the second week of May in 2023. All of those huge numbers you have stated since Biden became president prior to June of 2023 were the very same policies that trump set, not Biden. Those trump immigration polices were "emergency Covid policies" that gives a president more leeway to enact stricter policies that are actually counter to immigration laws due to it being a national health emergency. So why are you blaming Biden for the failure of trump's immigration policies? Are you trying to deceive people? Why are you leaving out those facts? It seems you are guilty of the exact thing you're blaming me of.

The FACT is that the first full month under the new Biden border policies, those numbers went down drastically. You didn't like that FACT. That's not a me problem.

Secondly, as I pointed out, Florida, North Dakota, Idaho, Nebraska, Iowa, West Virginia, Ohio, Oklahoma, South Carolina and Mississippi have all sent National Guard troops to the southern border. Abbott even set up razor wire on the banks of the Rio Grande and flotation devices in the river to help stop the surge of illegals entering our country. Thus far none of that has worked.

Why is it you only point the finger at biden while not admitting that even with all of these Republican states making efforts to help stop the flow of immigrants, none of their efforts are helping anything either?

We all know why you refuse to mention that it was actually under trump's immigration policies those numbers were skyrocketing. We all know why you refused to say that even Republican efforts have failed to help. It's because through all of your bluster it's you who are trying to deceive people.

I have been right here. Where have you been? It was a disaster under trump's policies. It's been a disaster for decades. Sometimes a little better and sometimes worse. But it's you who seems unable to see that. Prior to May of 2023 it was trump's policies that were failing. Man up and stop blaming everyone else but yourself because you can't accept the truth.

Only congress can make laws. Only congress can rewrite our nation's immigration laws. Stop helping play the political football game and address the people actually responsible for our immigration problems for a change.

Well, with the exception of one question those were all rhetorical questions. And you need to get off the bologna about needing congress to control the border. We need congress to pass long term immigration reform, not to bring the border under control. I will say that the biden policies you love so much have made it way more difficult to bring the border under control. Thanks for that.

No pit, you did not post the number because you knew that anyone reading 145k crossings in June would know that your attempt to paint biden border policy was pure phony. That is why you did not show a number.

If biden border policies caused this drop it did not last long because 2 months later there were over 200k. Hmm.

Out of time for now.

Yes, let's...

By "Trump era border policies" you mean Title 42. Something that you said should be made permanent law... Now, because it brought illegal border crossings down for one month, you conveniently blame the entire mess on Trump. Only a fool would believe that rubbish, here's why:

These are the "Trump era policies" that Joey removed on his first day in office:


DEFERED ACTION FOR CHILDHOOD ARRIVALS
Biden reaffirmed DACA, an Obama-era program that Trump had long sought to dismantle that shielded undocumented immigrants who arrived in the U.S. as children from deportation.

BORDER WALL
Biden terminated the construction and funding of the wall at U.S. southern border — a key promise of the Trump administration that has drawn backlash for its environmental impacts and is being litigated at the Supreme Court for the allegedly improper use of funds.

EXECUTIVE ORDER REVISING IMMIGRATION ENFORCEMENT POLICIES
Revoking a Trump-era policy that cracked down on communities shielding undocumented immigrants from deportation, Biden vowed to “protect national and border security” and “address the humanitarian challenges at the southern border.”

FAMILY REUNIFICATION
Biden on Tuesday created a task force to reunite migrant families who were separated at the U.S.-Mexico border by Trump’s 2018 “zero tolerance” border strategy.

The task force, which will by led by U.S. Department of Homeland (DHS) Security Secretary Alejandro Mayorkas, will consider the possibility of issuing visas or using other forms of immigration relief to reunite separated families.

ASYLUM AND REGIONAL MIGRATION
Biden on Tuesday issued three executive orders dealing with asylum at the U.S.-Mexico border, legal immigration and reunifying families.

The asylum-focused order mandated a review of the Migrant Protection Protocols (MPP), a controversial program that pushed 65,000 asylum seekers back to Mexico to wait for U.S. court hearings.

LEGAL IMMIGRATION
Biden’s executive order on legal immigration called for a review of a Trump-era rule that made it harder for poorer immigrants to obtain permanent residency in the United States.

The review of the so-called “public charge” rule is expected to start the process to rescind it, according to two people familiar with the plan.

INTERIOR ENFORCEMENT
Biden on his first day in office repealed a 2017 Trump executive order that intensified U.S. immigration enforcement within the country.



But none of that has anything to do with the disaster, right? It's just "Trump's" Title 42.

YES.

It's been a near three year disaster, but that one month -- things were looking good!

It's been a disaster for decades under both republican and Democrat presidents. Why don't you just own up to that? So it was "less of a disaster" under trump.

I see you aren't a fan of the fact that in June of 2023 there was a two year low either. Of course in a world where facts no longer matter I'm not surprised by that.

I see not being cruel to children is once again no problem for republicans. Because after all, it's after they are born and they are brown children.

You want me to own up to that? I have, and so has everyone else for twenty years.

Why not just can the paper, scissors, rock arguments and accept the fact that this president has exacerbated an existing border mess and created a crisis that gets worse everyday?

And your "June 2023" falls directly in line with you celebrating gas prices when they fell to $4, celebrating inflation dropping one month after rising for 20, etc, etc...


And yes, let's finally conclude with the race card and "evil GOPers" schtick. Let's spend millions bringing the previously deported parents here to reunite with children that should have never been left.

Hell, let's make it billions and offer the families $450,000 per person for those who were "separated". Separated because the parents (if there were actually parents present) never came back to pick them up after they were ordered to be deported.

5600 children that they can't seem to "reunite", when more than 152,000 arrived at the border in 2022 alone without a parent even present.




Biden's Border Policy in a nutshell:

Come here, you will get in. The chances of you not getting in are miniscule.

Bring your kids, they're basically a free ticket, and you may even receive a hefty payment if we forget to wipe their ass while you're away.

Worst case scenario? You'll face a day in court... some day, current estimates are like 5 years. In the meantime, you're free to roam! Better yet, (hell, there's so many of you!), just promise to report to ICE within 90 days, okay? Go over there and grab your care packages -- a bus will be here soon to take you to the city of your choice!

If things are still amiss, don't worry, there are 3000 loopholes and we're busy creating more daily!