DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns Fire Offensive Coaches

So the 2023 regular season record of 11-6 isn't an improvement over the 2023 record of 7-10?

I really liked Stump. Not happy with this firing.

And Bryan Burney the QB coach.

That would be time to head to the 480 bridge!

It is but it was not enough to win the division. If they want a deeper playoff run, they have to win the division get a home field advantage and make a run. I believe the FO made this move to improve the offense to get where they want to get. Not that they failed in 2023 but need to be improved in 2024 and make the same kind of jump the defense did this past year. Not saying it will work but what I think they are trying.

You're not going to win the AFC North having to rely on four starting QB's when two out of three on the roster going into the season stink and you had to get one off the couch along with playing the fourth and fifth OT on your roster and losing Chubb. And that doesn't even begin to mention the injuries this team suffered this year. If this FO can't figure that out they very well may be in the wrong business. I think they are lacking the ability to see the forest for the trees here.

I don't think anyone lost their job for failure. I think the FO will agree with your assessment of the 2023 season. I also think the FO feel a change in offensive philosophy is needed to win the North. They changed the defense this year and found a defensive coordinator that took the defense to another level. I believe they are hoping for the same with the offense by adding a new coordinator that has had some kind of proven results in the past. Again, if you're not improving you're getting worse. Continuous improvement.

That was fast regarding a Staley visit. So fast.. as if the team had this firing decision laid out for a bit now.

The decision is pro active and that’s what an ambitious organization should do if they want to catch up with the teams in front of them. From that standpoint this move seems correct but it all depends on who they replace the fired coaches with. That’s my short evaluation.

The backside of firing so call “scapegoat’s” is that it creates a little bit of instability and speculations.

If Watson has anything to do with these changes then the support for him can quickly dry up if he don’t deliver some sort of success next season. Maybe he’s totally innocent and if that’s the case maybe this move can be successful because we need to be more unpredictable and protect our QB better to avoid further injuries.

From Stefanski’s perspective is a bold move. The room for errors decreases and if the Browns don’t starts to win their division or make a good run in the play offs then I think his days are numbered.

I don't believe watson had anything to do with it. At this point his resume' in Cleveland doesn't constitute that amount of leverage.

According to some Stefanski's days have been numbered for at least a few seasons now.

When a HC starts to fire coaches around him without taking any own accountability (so far) he set himself up for heavy criticism if he doesn’t vastly improve his teams result. That has nothing to do with Stefanski specifically it’s just how a result oriented business works.

I like the move btw but that part got unnoticed from you

would love to see an OC who runs more pre-snap motion

Heavy criticism by you and your ilk. He took a hospital ward to the playoffs. The only people who think that needs to be held accountable for that are people who are aren't being objective and have it out for him. Giving him a mass amount of credit for it is what you should be saying.

A name to watch for perhaps?

https://247sports.com/nfl/cleveland...dates-kevin-stefanski-225604846/#2348857 (full list of potentials from this site)

Kelly's bio on Titans website
https://www.tennesseetitans.com/team/coaches-roster/tim-kelly


Klint Kubiak is interesting from a name perspective considering Stefanski's connection to his father and SF offense doing very well.

As fans we can speculate all we want and that’s fine. Bottom line, IMO, is the FO is trying to make us a better team and that’s perfectly fine with me. I can’t wait to see whom we hire. That should tell us a lot about our future passing game.

No! Absolutely not and I going to tell you why.

I will never forgive his handling with Mayfield when he let TJ Watt sack our injured QB too many times. That’s the opposite of good leadership and I will always hold him accountable for such a mishandling of HIS player.

His record so far with a roster full of talent is good, this season is better than good, maybe close to very good. If he had won against the Texans I will call it a great season but that didn’t happen so “close to very good” is what I think is a fair judgement.

His play calling has gone from unacceptable to sometimes very good. His ceiling is high but the floor is sometimes at the basement level. The improvement this season gives me at least hope. Maybe he can also develop a part of his leadership a notch or two so he don’t throw any other of his players and coaches under the bus when it suits him.

I don’t know enough to fully judge who he’s but from the outside he doesn’t exactly look like a natural born leader, more a feminine beta type then a alpha who get respect with his pure presence. I’m old school so maybe my expectation's are different to the younger generation. These new Harvard type of managers isn’t my cup of tea. Claudia Gay. Alissa Heinerscheid. They all make me want to puke and my daughters also has this liberal soft crap attitude that I hate.

The problem with this is if you're looking for an equivalent impact like what you got from the Schwartz hire, then the scope of coaching changes on the offensive side of the ball should somehow include Stefanski. This is his system and he calls plays. If he retains playcalling duties and/or brings in coaches that aren't bringing anything to the table as much as they're just doing what they're told... then these changes amount to just a bunch of hand-waving. I used the phrase earlier "rearranging deck chairs on a sinking ship". I don't mean the ship is sinking, but rather that these coaching changes could be totally ineffective to address what they're intended to address.

He was my son’s oline coach at BW back in 2014.

Improvement = yes, meeting expectations = nope

Keep in mind, in 2020, the Browns were 11-5 with a playoff appearance of 2 games making them 12-6 for the year. Now, if we were to believe the story that the 2020 team with Mayfield as QB wasn't good enough to get the Browns to the Super Bowl, then there had to be changes. Haslam opened up his checkbook and gave Berry the funds to get this franchise to a level where they were a league threat for the Super Bowl.

In 2021, the Browns and Berry had the highest cash spend (not cap) in the NFL for that season. Yada yada yada, the Browns put together an 8-9 season and finished tied for last place in the AFC North.

In 2022, the checkbook was still open, and the Browns had the second highest spend in the NFL that season. This was also the year they acquired their elite top 5 QB that was going to take them over the top. A 230M guaranteed 5-year contract for the player that would take them over the top but sadly, he would miss 23 3/4 games in his first 2-years. The team regressed though in 2022 finishing 7-10 and another last place finish in the AFC North.

Enter 2023, the checkbook is still wide open, Berry and the Browns have the highest spend in the NFL again this year. In addition to the spend on players, Berry and the Browns also invested heavily in replacing the DC and special team's coach to get the team to the that evasive Super Bowl level. The Browns improved in 2023 going 11-6 and qualified for the playoffs as a wildcard. The Browns were thumped in the first round 45-14 losing to a team led by a rookie QB and rookie HC. The Browns finished 11-7 for the season which is clearly an improvement over 2023 yet still not as good as the 2020 season where they were 12-6. Three years with the highest average cash spend in the NFL and still chasing the 2020 season even after spending all that money.

https://bucswire.usatoday.com/2023/...eers-salary-cap-cash-spending-tom-brady/

NFL Cash Spending 2021 - 2023 💰

The Browns spent $80m more than 2nd place & $168m more than league average in 2023. The Browns spend equals $820.2M over the last 3-years and $204.7M more than the NFL set cap over that period.

2021 salary cap = $182.5M - 2021 Browns spend = $239.4M
2022 salary cap = $208.2M - 2022 Browns spend = $276.3M
2023 salary cap = $224.8M - 2023 Browns spend = $304.5M

So, did the Browns improve in 2023? Yes, they did. Have the Browns come close to meeting expectations considering all the player and coaching changes while spending $204.7M more than the cap over the last 3-years (more than any other team) and still cannot equal or better the results from 2020 which has been deemed unsatisfactory?

Oh boy. Here come the cap hell updates.

It's hard to say. We don't know the dynamics behind the scenes. Sometimes people get tired of each other. Maybe there was some friction in the coaching room?

Why would we fire Stump...who knows and who really cares(other than the human element)? The guy has been around for a long time. Maybe he is just slowing down and we wanted something fresh?

TE coach seems a bit surprising given a great year by Njoku, but we don't know he had anything to do with that. Maybe Njoku"s previous lackluster seasons were because of the guy and some other coach became more involved this season and actually made the impact?

AVP..maybe he just got tired of not calling plays? How may OC's who didn't call plays get a chance to be a head coach? If you aren't doing that you almost start to be viewed as the coaching flunky. Maybe he and Stefanski started butting heads enough that Stefanski got tired of it?

And, as some have speculated before, maybe we are in for a totally new offense with a play calling OC.??

Hate to see Stump go We already interviewed Duce Staley to replace him)

McCartney did a good job IMO but the Browns think they can improve our TE coach.

AVP... well no loss IMO

Gotta say, I don't get it. But it is what it is. My hope is that Berry and KS have people in mind to replace them. Having Duce Staley in is a good sign. Will the next OC call the plays? Wouldn't surprise me is Barry came to KS and say, we gotta get the play calling off your Van Pelt isn't the answer. Lets get someone else. Of course, I don't know that, just speculating.

In maybe somewhat of a foreshadowing moment, right before the Bengals game when the Browns announced they would be sitting their starters, someone asked Kev if he would let AVP call the plays. In an uncharacteristic way of answering for him, he was somewhat demonstrative and condescending when he said no. It was an odd moment I thought but it is obvious these plans have been in the works for some time.

Could be. It is all speculation. We don't know the why's. In the end, I don't really care who is doing it as long as the "it" is getting done.

Wonder if AVP makes his way to the Jets somehow.

Watch AVP go to the Steelers and build a successful offense there! That's not a criticism of getting rid of him or that I think he'll do it. Just one of those "It's so Browns" things that wouldn't surprise me!

It seemed to me that one area on offense that did not improve much was the interceptions. From what I saw most of which were receivers not being where Flacco thought they should be and throwing to the spot only to find noone there ( maybe a DB). Perhaps, the organization placed more of the blame upon the young receivers and an inability to get them to the right spot at the right time. I did not see most of the Houston playoff game and do not know what caused the interceptions ( I also do not have any desire to go back and watch). It just seems odd to fire guys after a successful season and I thought that they had someone specific in mind. The Titans OC seems like a guy that team may have had sights on. Not sure about Andy Dickerson, never heard of him.

Dickerson was here with Mangini in 2009 and 2010.

Dickerson could also be considered a backup plan should Bill Callhan decide to join his son's staff if he lands a head coaching job. He also meets the Rooney Rule requirement.

There's a Rooney rule req for OCs and DCs?

Bruce Arians approves of this post.

Hey, at least you manned up and admitted it's a personal beef with you and not how well he is doing now. Now we all know your motivation has nothing to do with how well or poorly he is doing and nothing he does short of a SB will ever be good enough for you. You just answered the "why" you hate him and it has nothing to do with his current performance as the Browns HC.

Thanks for giving us a better understanding. It's all about Baker. And here I thought "The Baker Bros." was nothing more than an urban legend.

Yes. In 2021 the Rooney Rule was updated to include the requirement of interviewing at least one external minority candidate for coordinator positions and QB coaching jobs. Two external minority candidates are required to be interviewed for head coaching jobs.

https://operations.nfl.com/inside-football-ops/inclusion/the-rooney-rule/