DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2024 NFL Season Looking Back: Browns 16 Raiders 20 Postgame Thoughts

Disappointing

Watson played well. The rest of the team sucked. But they seemed to play better once Watson started throwing down the field instead of sideways.

Oline sucked
Dline sucked

And the refs hosed us out of 6 points, which would have possibly won the game for us.

2x Coach of the Year is 1-3 with one of the worst Offenses in the league and can't score more than 20 points a game.

The first string OL doesn’t want to play and the second string can’t play. Watson either gets killed or he makes a good play and it gets called back. This team will not finish .500.

All that is left is to watch the team unravel and turn on eachother. The train wreck has started.

- The Amari drop
- The Harris hold
- The missed XP
- The Harris bad snap

all of those, coupled with the bad tackling and penalties .. doom

We lead the league in drops and QB pressures allowed. We can’t do anything right on offense. I dunno what the hell is wrong with Cooper. Is it just bad luck? Did trade reports/rumors get stuck in his head?

All our RBs and WRs so far are uninspiring. It’s clear we need Conklin back way more than we need Wills back, as other than being massive as hell, Jones sucks at RT.

On the bright side we are doing much better with penalties. Only 5 today!!!!

Sell the team haslam.. you had the right GM and you swapped out for downgrades across the board. Dickerson should lose his job tonight. We can't keep trotting this group out there. Berry has done ZERO to address, anyone with eyes can see that Jones, Hudson and Harris don't belong anywhere near an NFL roster, Losing callahan is the worst loss of this franchise, no other coach leaving has resulted in this big of a drop in production. We need to find some else.. Hell, give JT a chance if he wants it. He absolutely couldn't be worse than Dickerson. Our recievers leave ALOT to be desired. From catching, route running, to getting separation. they do it all towards the bottom of the NFL. So many issues on the Stefanski side of the ball and our pathetic media will never call him out on it. I'm sick of watching us get outplayed, outcoached and outhustled week in and week out. This team has no spark. You never believe they are just a play or two away from seizing the game. Instead you feel they are a play or two away from a blowout loss. Its simple, we are not any better than we were when Berry and Stefanski took over, in fact we are worse in alot of ways and we have yet to draft or develop a single impact player that the team can use to establish their identity. I will tell you we had exactly that with Baker and chubb. Its just disappointing so many people give this team the benefit of the doubt only to be smashed every single year.

There is too much money and draft capital in this team to be 1-3.
1. Fire Depodesta - He's the idiot that brought in Stefanski.
2. Fire Berry - He's the idiot that let Baker go and brought in Desean. TAKE A LOOK AT BAKER IN TAMPA! 3-1 AND LOOKS LIKE A SUPERBOWL CONTENDER!
3. Fire Stefanski - Bleeping idiot called a timeout that essentially lost the game for us.
4. Cut Amari Cooper - dude is making it obvious at this point that he does not want to be here. F'in lost the game for us with that pass that he intentionally batted in the air. Not to mention his drops over the last two weeks. Get him the he## outta here.

And this idiot Haslem wants a new stadium. Take this embarassing dumpster of a team and move for all that I care.

THESE IDIOTS TANKED FOR 3 YEARS, DELIVERED A ZERO WIN SEASON, AND NOW CAN'T EVEN BEAT THE TWO WORST TEAMS IN THE NFL! THE RAIDERS WERE MISSING THEIR TWO BEST PLAYERS!

Just crying into my Mich Ultras lol

No coach has ever done less with more.

You have a bad QB and a bad head coach.

Can’t win many games that way …even when you are 6.5 pt favorites at home playing against a bottom five team and playing against another bottom five team without their two best players.

I was at the game today. The team is unprepared and uninspired. It was tough watching in person.

I may be going out on a limb here, but I think that if the Browns keep playing the way they are, a 1-16 season is within their grasp.

Call me crazy.

j/c...

- This team is playing uninspired, unmotivated and unprepared football. There are going to be some hard decisions to make this offseason.

- The Browns did not convert a single 3rd down after the opening drive.

- Cooper has turned into a headcase.

- Another week of not scoring 20 points. The offense put up 10 points against a bad Raiders team. Scored the lone the TD on the scripted opening drive.

- This is far and away the best Watson has looked this year. He cannot take a sack on that final 4th down. Just chuck it up. Maybe you get a PI call.

- As is typical, a missed XP haunts them at the end.

- The defense got ran over by the worst rushing team in the NFL. This defense believed its own hype.

- Emerson continues to get picked on. Sit tight on a contract extension for him.

- It's cringe worthy seeing the players on defense and their group dances when they are losing.

- Stefanski coached scared when he did not trust Hopkins to kick the 58 yard FG before the half after he drilled a 56 yarder.

Cheers: Charlie Hughlett. Great snaps.
Jeers: Jim Schwartz and his "loafs" grading system. Stop dancing.

On to Washington. Washington has scored 80 points in their last two games.

after all of the bad play, we were still going to win if Harris/Watson snap didnt occur. That didnt go unnoticed by me

I think we will be okay. I was pleased to see DW pick it up today. It seemed like sparks of last years team at moments today. Overall it was bad, but I think they’re about to hit their stride. Meanwhile, we need to win and win now. This taking 4+ games to get going seems to be a Ski&CO hallmark.

OK.. How come Stefanski's offense, even with Watson playing well, cannot get going??
How come our Offense has no identity?? The Raiders were one of the worst against the run... and we barely call run plays so that our oline can fire out the raiders.
BTW.. our run game coordinator from last year is gone!!.. What has Stefanski done??

Browns are back, doing Browns things

This list has to include Emerson at least, and possibly the secondary as a whole. More flying dives at legs, whiffs, just amazing how another team went after our weak sister a bunch. Some of our folks seem to avoid contact regularly.

You, sir, are an optimist.

This is not a good football team. There is no unit on this this team that you can point to and say, "At least we are good at ________"

I saw an article on my feed that Browns don't want the play the blame game. Well, somebody has to be blamed. 4 years ago we were praised as having one of the best rosters in football. Now we are, at best, mediocre across the board. Blame Barry, blame Stephanski, blame Watson (or the Watson trade), blame losing Callahan, blame the OL..... I don't really care but this is the most uninspiring football to watch. I was in a bar with the Washington game on right beside it and it was night/day the difference between how they have improved and how we have fallen.

It's hard to explain. Something is wrong with the teams attitude.

Maybe we have players who got a big head and just assumed last years mojo would carry over to this season. I don't know what it is but we have about 3-4 losses left to have any shot.

Punting

we are sorely missing Chubb and Hunt and Njoku's attitude IMO

"We have to do better"

We lost to two of the worst teams in the league. Both handed us a victory and we refused to take it. I watch sports for entertainment. What we've seen this year is anything but.

people felt good because we weren't dealing with Hue Jackson and the 0-16 anymore, that they seem to forget that the idea isn't to be just better than that but to actually compete to play in a super bowl. So what we have been doing is rewarding mediocrity. Sorry but i will die on the hill that we haven't gone backwards since we got rid of Dorsey and Berry and Stefasnki have done nothing to deserve an extension. Our players don't develop under KS and Berry hasn't drafted a single player that would be considered an impact player that other teams had to gameplan for. Stack that on top of mortgaging our future on a QB (not blaming watson today) that came with a metric ton of baggage and question marks when you had a QB on the roster that took you to the playoffs and then the coaching staff failed him by making him play hurt, not putting better players around him to catch the ball etc. Baker had the tools, the things he didn't have are developed by good coaching staffs. That didn't happen. Everyone talks of KS and his offense, sorry, I don't see a good offense since baker left. So here we are, stuck in the middle of not being horrible and not being good enough to compete for anything serious, while the good players that we do have are getting older and will need to be replaced soon. Its a win now league. I firmly believe unless we magically get to the second round of playoffs, this staff needs to be gone.. they have had plenty of time to field a winner. Their time is up.

Watching the Ravens games and how are they winning? RUNNING THE DAMN BALL.

This early in the season it’s pretty common for records to get out of whack. Records tend to get ironed out as the season wears on, more opportunities for a team to show who they really are. Some teams like the Ravens and Niners are clearly better than their early season records would indicate. Other teams like the Seahawks and I would say Steelers are probably worse than their record would suggest.

To me the Browns are a 1-3 team that looks exactly like a 1-3 team. They get one good quarter out of every game. They’ll probably project out to 4-5 wins in 17 games. Theyll probably project out to 22nd or 23rd best record out of 30 teams when the season concludes. Deshaun will likewise “improve” to about 20-25th best QB. They’ll end up in the bottom 25% of the division. They’re a 25% ball club.

I also likewise now care about 25% after today. I don’t mean to just bail early but I’ve seen this movie before. Maybe just maybe we rise to mediocre, have a nice little run of games. Whatever, it won’t last. This is not their year. This team has major systemic dysfunction starting with the OL but there’s lots of poor play all around. Lots of bad juju.

I’m most disappointed in the coaching. I’m not calling for changes and won’t even if they have a full disaster season but it’s sobering to see how poorly prepared and uninspired they look. They look lost.

Cooper’s drop, getting an assist on the INT, his TD called back because of holding, the terrible snap from Harris, a missed PA, injuries piling up, punter gets our MVP of the Game Award, Flacco throws for two TDs and Baker puts up numbers.
Hello, Cleveland!!!

I've been disappointed in the defense ... yes they step up for stretches, but they seem to get soft too often and let the opponent reel off chunks

Emerson has been awful this year and it's apparent

Whatever Houston did to us last season exposed us IMO

In terms of the offense, too many self inflicted things have killed us

And I also Forgot the crap tackling by the defense!! And Jim Schwartz, everybody is running on your Defense... and other than Myles Garrett, no one else on the D line is getting any pressure on opposing QBs. There should be a wholesale, from coaches to players, cussing out for everyone!!

Our offense was so bad that Watson actually looked kinda good in comparison.

Our D got carved up by Gardner Minshew and the rest of the Raiders JV team. They had the worst running game coming into the game and they were picking up chunks. Minshew made enough good throws to win. As bad as our offense is, it's the D that has been the real disappointment. They were supposed to carry us to a couple wins, but they are trending to be mediocre at best.

Cooper - some on here said he's one of the few people that deserve the benefit of the doubt... but the guy played volleyball defense to make that INT possible.
Watson laughing with the Raiders D on his last play of the game... WOW.


Watson looked somewhat improved, but his issues are still very much present (can't find open man, and his accuracy is off). He was pretty far down the list of issues today, but I'm telling you... watch a bunch of this stuff get magically sorted out when he gets benched for Winston.

I agree except for Hunt. Hunt wasn't good last year.

Browns Offense Rankings:
29th in Passing Yards
23rd in Rushing Yards
32nd in First Downs

j/c

This team has been a disappointment from Game One... and I don't know why.

They look as lost and lackluster as they did during their 1-15/0-16 skein.


On D: What is up with the abysmal tackling technique?
Last year, we watched DDawgs stick, wrap up, and drive opponents into the turf. CLE D was This year? Whiffs, shoulder hits... the stuff we saw when squads were 'phoning it in' during the "0-fer Seasons."

On O: I get that we are depth-thin on Oline, but why are guys allowing free, un-blocked routes to the QB on passing plays? Unacceptable. Even backups need to know their assignments. Doing the least can yield better results than what we're seeing.

WTF is wrong with Amari? Dude looks like he's already retired, and just going through the motions.

Watching this year's team feels like all those years when we were going 5-11, 6-10... and I can't figure out what changed from last year to this.

__________________________

I hope it's an example of "Slow Start Syndrome," but Dawgs- we're 1/4 into the season, and this team is presenting like a sub-.500 team.
There is simply too much talent on the roster for Sundays to look like this.


This is disappointing- and distressing.


.02

The two recent quarterbacks who have led this team into the playoffs were run out of town despite giving there all. What did Berry have against them?

j/c

Loads of good and on point observations which I want to highlight or echo. In no particular order.

3 people mentioned uninspiring - that's troubling both from a talent perspective and effort and attitude perspective. Couple that with looking unprepared and while not so much this game but others - KS still getting outcoached in the 2nd half of games when other HC's have made their adjustments ... very troubling and points to a coaching issue for me. We've seen a very strong history of having a solid first drive with scripted plays - maybe a good Q1 - and then losing the rest of the game and being out-schemed.

Someone said KS coached scared - but that's something else we have seen time and again. I don't think scared - but playing not to lose, being conservative. How many games with giant leads (3 scores) ended up close? A lot. The Stefanski supporters claimed it was a well managed game to reduce risk - but look around at winning teams and top tier head coaching and when they can, they step on the throats of their opposition. I'd like to see us do that more. We're aggressive on 4th down (because the analytics says to do it) but not anywhere else within the game.

Someone talked about no-one being to blame - I think it's about accountability and hearing the HC talk platitudes in the post game presser and saying 'on me' 'must try harder' doesn't cut it. For all the love Schwartz got last year - for example - he's calling some questionable defensive plays or the D in general is performing under expectations. And you'd like to see some passion and fire among players and coaches .... not week in week out. Not fake stuff - but when it's so chronically bad, and the attitude is pedestrian it's frustrating.

Amari - As much as I loved the acquisition and think highly of him, his play 2024 has sucked. Attitude appears to suck. Awful drops and body language. Sort it out.

DW played well - he showed some grit - he wasn't the problem. Are we going to see more of the same every week for the rest of the year?? It would be a huge huge improvement.

As someone said, we've lost to two really bad teams - games we gave ourselves a chance to win despite playing badly - both times shot ourselves in the foot and snatched defeat from the jaws of victory. Good teams or bad teams that are well coached find ways to get the W. Can't help wonder what Tomlin would have got out of the talent the Browns have had over the last 3-4 years. They consistently find ways to overperform and finish - while we don't. Very frustrating again.

Lastly - salary cap not withstanding - I think I am at the point where I think Berry has done a terrible job. Put aside the DW trade - there's more at play there than simply Berry ... but the WR position has been badly managed. Behind Chubb who was a Dosey pick, the RB's are below average. The OL has starters with a history of injuries and woeful depth behind them. . . . There are some hits in his drafts. Newsome and JOK probably the best ... but so many misses. Check them out .... https://brownswire.usatoday.com/lis...-browns-have-made-under-gm-andrew-berry/

With the improved play from DW - we can win some games with some improvement in other areas. We might not look so bad moving forward ... but a winning record is almost impossible at this point. Playoffs no. Another year gone while we wait till next year. Ugh.

Just rewatching some clips ... Nick Harris was AWFUL. Literal turnstile at C. The Pocic injury alone is why we lost (and he's not great himself)

I'd also reiterate how bad Emerson was yesterday. He's been picked on at will all year. Like clockwork, a QB senses us bringing pressure and he just throws it to Emerson's guy regardless of situation

I don't know what Berry has for Harris, but it has to be for something other than playing football.

Harris isn't close to being a good player.

I am not good enough to recognize it as much during the game because I'm not as smart about football ... but rewatching the games I can more easily tell the OL play.

You're right: Harris is really bad lol

I too have noticed our corners especially avoiding contact . Hence all the teams going wide on us .
One more thing that drives me crazy is this wide nine defense we play . Garrett should make ten plays every game with his talent .

There is a solution.Dump some of the mathematicians and get an old school football coach.Fortunately there's one in the building.Unfortunately I have zero faith this org.would do it.

Watson getting on Jones after a horrible show of lack of effort

Was the only show of emotions I saw during the game.

Watson with Jones on the sidelines also showed some class.

Lack of effort or being prepared seems to be a problem

Not with all, enough though

We knew that last year...didn't re-sign him...then TRADED for him anyway when we needed a C. Berry doing Berry things...again.

Outside of Harris, what were our realistic options?

I honestly don't know, but I do suspect Berry has a better handle on available talent and require compensation. Some times you are limited in options.

the realistic answer is that we didnt expect to be starting Hudson, Zinter, Harris TOGETHER for a long stretch here. It's just a bad, bad OL.

Good post Bone and right to the point. It gets old but we should be 3-1. The Giants game was winnable and so was yesterdays. Too many mistakes and bad O-Line play. Last year's team had something and it's missing in this year. We have mostly the same players but it feels very different.

- OL was terrible again.
- As a result of the above, no real running game and DW running for his life.
- DW played well. Still, we need more from him considering where this team is right now.

Kevin Stefanski is a good play caller. No one will convince me otherwise and his sample size proves it. That said, there seems to be some very large disconnect between the offensive scheme and what KS calls. It's like the offense is Dorsey's and then Kevin calls plays within that system and it's not something KS is comfortable with or has experience calling. That doesn't seem to make sense to me. These two coaches don't seem in sync and I think its a huge problem to the offensive identity and cohesiveness, outside of the OL issues that is.

This defense is a shell of its former self. Not a ton or pressure, they don't seem to play fast, and poor tacking continues to plaque this team.

Very frustrating to see and the last two games we should have won.

Dorsey stinks. That's been proven and the hire was ridiculous IMO.

I'm not saying he's the reason our offense is bad. He's one of the reasons though.

The marriage between KS, Dorsey, Watson, coupled with the injuries and penalties ... really bad offense

It is a solution my friend.
A solution for uninspired,lacka-daisical play.
While we're at it,JOK is proving me wrong.he played well.He still takes some bad angles,but he gives great effort.

This defense was so over rated going into the season
But everyone forgot it played chump QBs last year
Jim Schwartz scheme was overhyped
The Raiders did what they wanted wanted to on offense
JOK and Garret was the only signs of life on defense
The Browns yet again have put a offense on the field
With the slowest WR room in the league
The offense has no identity through 4 games
The defense has no teeth after 4 games

Cooper might be traded to KC ... Schefter didnt report it for nothing

If anything the sample size proves he isn't a good playcaller. After the first drive we are rudderless. Situational playcalling is some of the worst I've ever seen. Being aggressive and costing sure points when he didn't need to, then going soft and predictable when we need to be aggressive. Not doing anything with packages or playcalling to slow down an aggressive defense. Sorry, go watch Shanahan or reid call plays, hell even Daboll is able to make adjustments in dealing with a subpar QB. Sorry but KS is not it for me. He's not shown anything that says he can get this team to the next level.

Easily the dumbest thing I've ever read on here. To watch what we have watched and not look at what the coaches have done is just obtuse beyond belief

Cooper is old, that is why we tried to trade him for youth. He's never been a WR that gets separation.. He gets even less now.. I think I read almost last in the NFL. Get some WR talent in here and you will see improved QB play period. This is not a good pass catching group

Couldn't agree more. Tackling by our secondary has been a off and on problem for a while. No one wraps up the ball carrier. Just throw your shoulder at them and hope they go down.
Our offensive line was going to be questionable before the season started. Conklin, Jones, and Wills all had surgery last yr. Not many start a new season 100% recovered and we should have anticipated that.
I thought Watson looked a little better this game but this team in general is regressing IMO. We just have too many injured or playing hurt guys so early in the season.
I know our corners can't play man coverage all the time but I'm getting tired watching them set up 8-9 yards off the receiver for an easy catch and YAC.
From what I've watched these last 4 games I just don't expect much this yr.

j/c...

So let me see if I get this straight. He was wrong for being aggressive in his play calling and then he was also wrong for soft play calling. Got it.

If you wish to talk about slow WR's check out Jerry Rice's 40 time at the combine.

In all but one of his last five seasons Cooper has caught for over 1100 yards. He doesn't look like he has in the past but trying to claim he never was a WR to get open is a pure falsehood.

I'm not on here much anymore....But this team is flat out bad. IMO I'm sure this new offensive scheme and format isn't clicking within the players and coaches...

But I do have an issue with Berry (and whomever makes decisions with him) The DLine is not thriving like one would imagine having Myles on one side...Zadarius looked over the hill last year imo, and he is getting completely washed out of plays...after they went ahead and resigned him. Okro we know gets washed out due to his small frame, he too has been near invisible. Our DT room are over the hill, and play like it anymore...there isn't much havoc at all presented by Tomlinson, Harris, or Jefferson. Michael Hall looks like another disaster pick by Berry (though I understand why adding a youth influx to the DT room was needed, as all of our players in that room are old...and the prior busts Berry selected left that room ridden of talent...Togai, Ika, Winfrey)

LB core neglected again...JOK and Hicks, and absolutely nothing behind them. Second level is showing its issues again, pray that Hicks isn't out...as its only going to get worse there.

Secondary issues...Emerson has no swivel in his hips, reason why he was available in the 3rd round...and teams are targeting him more, and its leaving a lot of field between him and the WR. Newsome has always been soft, and looks like he's more interested into choreographing the teams dance moves. Denzel...normally and sadly our best tackler, you can kinda tell he's trying to preserve his head and body from another concussion or injury. Juan Thornhill has been a FA wiff, McCleod is terribly old (however thankful for his spark yesterday) Delpit looks very mediocre, and not the player the fat contract has handed to.

NOW at OT and RB...this FO knew Chubb, Conklin, Wills were all probably leaning to be doubtful to start the season 100%. So to service the RB spot, they brought in Nyheim Hines who was on IR, and guess what....he's still on IR...They brought in Foreman...and thats it...FO wanted to believe Jerome Ford is the answer...he however is a big question...Dances around more than P. Diddy in his videos, lacks any vision or patience...and I'm godly afraid he's going to fumble every touch. So at OT, they bring in some street FA journeymen, make no efforts in the draft for OT....Just boggles my mind (I know Zinter was drafted, and I see the need there....I was just utterly shocked we didn't go OT high....especially with such a disappointing FA approach )

TE...Adkins plays in Houston were a by product of being wide open....he's a solid blocker and that's it...We have some street FA's and that's it...core is very weak behind the injured Njoku

I mean there's other issues present, as our WRS creating poor separation and drops (heck we thought David Bell couldn't separate lol) Watson has some major flaws, scheme looks nightmarish, regression from all facets of the offense (skillset, conditioning, lack of focus) Team just looks awfully slow and old, looks like the Mangini team lol

Team looks timid, coaches seem timid...lack of fire is transparent...Players coaching on the sidelines more than the coaches are, the whole team is off. I watched the Colts/Steelers game prior, and on both sides of the sidelines...you see coaches getting into it with their players (Tomlin laid into Broderick Jones pretty good, then again with his RG) Steichen did the same with his secondary...Idk, our team just looks like a Kimble landfill right now.

worst offense since 2000 .. that's alarming

Just wondering what the narrative would be like this week if the Nick Harris hold doesn't get called...

Browns win
Cooper with a TD and 121 yards receiving
Watson 257 yards and 2 TDs

Our 1-3 record is a cumulative team effort as well as the coaches. If that TD to Cooper was allowed to stand the talk on this board would be very different now. That one hold on Harris has made all the difference.

Last year with a defense much stouter than this, and a nastier streak, the DC stated what he wanted was more aggressiveness, what he called "badassery" as far as identity. I loved reading it and it was kinda fun to type as well. This group, and if we throw in offense as well, it is different. I'm thinking it would have to be more like "halfassery" thus far. And there are a number of contributors to claim the shame of our game.

Agreed. We need a tough guy coach!!!! Hire Rex Ryan!!!!!

I like Ds that blitz. But I don't think we have the DL to pull it off. All that blitzing was hurting us yesterday.

Looking at the PFF grades so far this season, our Dline/Oline are atrocious and not even backup numbers. Most everyone of them are in the "replaceable" category. Thats a problem. Watching bad teams gouge us up the middle tells you our Dline aren't doing the job and the linebackers aren't doing much better. But I think the linebackers could be a lot better if they weren't constantly having to shed blocks because the dline can't get off the ball. The only one on D that consistently makes plays in the run game is Delpit. But he's so bad in everything else, I don't know how they keep him out there.

I agree .. our blitzing is atrocious. We are so predictable and teams use it against us

Great teams find a way to win. Terrible teams find a way to lose!

I had a saying when coaching baseball. "You play like you practice".



Now that in season, practice has to be scaled back. We are getting what we deserve. The players are playing like they practiced.

I agree. Practice is NOT overrated like some people believe. It creates habits and allows you to play more freely/correctly if your mind and brain are more prepared

It's too bad, that was a hell of a throw/play (sighs).

it would have been Watson's moment as a Brown QB

It's just funny how some teams can successfully adapt to those restrictions and limitations. You'd think that by the way KS worked the COVID hurdles he'd figure this out.

thats my thing too ... the Vikings didnt seem to have a problem with it?

It's not actually a problem at all. It does limit the hours of practice a team can conduct using contact and other hours allowed. What these rules do not do is restrict the ability to practice intensely and hard during the hours allotted. All teams have the same amount of allotted hours but it appears not all teams use those hours in quite the same way.

I think we're in trouble, and are going to be hard pressed to find a win in the next 7 weeks. We will, hopefully, beat the bye ..... but I have very little hope of even that happening.

At Washington
At Eagles
Bengals
Ravens
Chargers
Bye
At Saints

If we can add another step to last weeks progress, we could win our share.