DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Quarterback height

The part in bold makes it pretty self explanatory.

I feel like too many people put too much stock, positive and negative, in the predictive merit of a player’s draft position. Each one of these guys is an individual player with a story for why they got drafted where they did. There’s certainly some “wisdom of the crowd”, players drafted earlier show up as starters more often than those drafted later, but there’s also group think and sometimes some traits get over valued which leads to other traits getting overlooked.

I’m not an idiot, I know physical attributes matter a great deal in this game but what’s between the ears matters more to the QB position than just about any other in major sports. I don’t know if Gabriel washes out because his body just can clear the bar but when I look at his consistency and productivity in different environments, all against elite competition, I think that’s the kind of head-set that excites me. I totally understand why he dropped and I know I have a typical Brownsian wishful thinking but I’m very excited to see this kid in action. I love an underdog!

So far it doesn’t look exactly promising Probably another valuable draft pick that’s flushing down the drain because of poor scouting.
Hight matters.

Height may matter but other QB's Dillon's size have done decently. Let's give him every opportunity and then we can make our evaluations. Same with Shadeur and KP. They all deserve a fair shot.

I've heard ppl say that Gabriel was drafted because he fits the mold of a KS type QB --- accurate, smart, on time, etc. But so far, the reports from camp don't seem to say that same thing

IMO, KS has had the most success with bigger, pocket type QBs who can be accurate and push the ball down the field off PA

He had a couple of bad practices so he's already claiming it's wasted draft pick. It's a case of having crystal balls.

Maybe a trip to the urologist is in order?

I avoid giving others medical advice other than "Maybe you should see a doctor about that."

He has similar height as Kyler Murray but without the foot works and speed.
He will never be a franchise QB, at best a back up, you can all quote me on that.

What’s Stefanski’s type?

Baker seems to do fine with almost all his coaches when healthy.
Same with Kirk Cousins.
Deshaun got significantly worse with Ski.
Flacco arrived as a senior QB who had already won a SB. Another one who probably took care of himself.
The rest must be labeled as failures…

So what kind of success do we talk about?

my only rebuttal would be that Brissett had a career type year (or half year or whatever) with KS

NO, NO, NO, NO, NO


Get with the program. Our third round pick is a 1,000,000 percent bust because he has not been elected to the HOF yet before his first pre season snap. Don't you get it.

Absolutely and there have been small improvements with almost every QB but there has also been setbacks and in some cases a clear stagnation.

It seems like he’s good with some of the technical aspects and creating schemes but looking at him on the sideline or on the training ground I have serious doubts about his human management, motivation skills and communication ability.

He failed totally in the end with both Baker and Deshaun.

It got to the point where all communication died.

It’s easy to always blame the players but when a relationship gets totally broken then the person with the most power has the ultimate responsibility to make sure that the communication continues one way or another.

It’s a huge red flag for me to me when a coach is involved in abrupt broken relationships with several star players in such a short time. How you break up is also a testament of your leadership.

I think that's where the "KS-type QB" aspect gets pumped up.

QBs that can see the D and deliver a ball accurately and on-time tend to do better than expected in Stefanski's offense. The ones that can't tend to have issues.

I have seen all snaps with DG that’s available on internet.
I have listen to multiple different opinions from various sources who has seen him live.
I combine that with the statistical data available about the importance of height, foot works and speed.

I wish him the absolute best but if I have to put my neck inside a giljotin then my answer is short and simple - NO.

The dramaturgy has been there all the time.

Combine that with pride, stubbornness and the fact that he was a 3rd round pick, above Shedeur, and the script is almost self explanatory.
The HC and GM don’t want to lose face in public, isn’t that obvious?

Throw your fourth choice out to the sharks and see what happens.
If Sanders succeeds then guess who’s going to stand in front of the media and take the credit.
If he fails the opposite will happen with smiles and “we tried “….

Flacco is so far our best option, followed by Picket and Sanders. Gabriel has huge mountain to climb to change that order if he don’t start to produce better on practice. .

Browns Training Camp: Dillon Gabriel shows poise and precision on day 1

https://sports.yahoo.com/article/browns-training-camp-dillon-gabriel-162928468.html



All you're basing that on is a couple of bad practices during the past few days. It's okay to be honest about that.

I was listening to a radio show with a Browns beat writer and they were talking about how much Gabriel has struggled in camp and why he is still getting the reps he is getting. The beat writer said what they and no one gets to see is the classroom work done behind the scenes. Says Gabriel has to be doing well in the classroom work and earning his reps by his knowledge in the classroom because his reps have not been good on the field. My own assumption from all I have been hearing is he looks so small on the field. Most think his height listed is fudged and he is shorter than listed. He seems to be too short to succeed at this level.

He is no shorter than Wilson. His height isn’t going to be the issue if he doesn’t succeed. He has played behind big lines at Oklahoma and Oregon without issues.

I don't think some people really understand how important chemistry with receivers is. A lot of the time, every QB has to throw the ball without actually seeing the WR open. They're reading the defense and putting the ball where a receiver is supposed to be.

Gabriel is working more on getting the ball out on time to where WRs are supposed to be based on his read on the defense. They aren't always there. Meanwhile Shedeur is sometimes holding the ball until he sees someone open, and the ball in the air looks great, but the play would actually already be dead because it took too much time to get that open. That's not an absolute, every play thing, but that's my overall sense of the state of the rookies, at this point.

While you see the highlight throws, the processing is just as, if not more, important. Throwing the ball is the "easy" part these guys have been doing forever. Understanding when, where, and why based on the play design and what the defense is showing you is a lot more complicated.

I think all Bull was doing was describing the difference in what they want to see from a QB verses what they're seeing from these QB's. I don't see where there is anything posted would indicate they "want one to succeed and another not too."

It just seems from the observation that one has a better skill set of anticipation and reading the defense than the other at this early stage of their development. I can't think of a single team that drafts any player they want to see fail to succeed. That would be 100% counterproductive.

I agree with you on all counts. I could care less which one of them pans out. Much as yourself I just hope one of them does. I do understand that they are more of outliers than more highly rated QB's but one can hope.

But I think they set the team up well by having two first round picks next year in case neither Gabriel or Sanders pan out. I'm just glad they didn't reach for a QB in the draft by spending a high draft pick in a weak QB class. Given the options that were on the table I think they chose the lesser of the evils.

IMHO, this a research year and every bit of focus should be on that goal. At QB, every game that Flacco plays in is a lost opportunity. Every game that Pickett, Gabriel, and Sanders sit is a lost opportunity to see their growth and leadership. There are going to be mistakes, dumb errors, and head scratchers but how do they respond? Every play Flacco plays is another missed opportunity to see how your rookies and Pickett are dealing with those issues. Even if the Browns win 9-10 games with Flacco (highly unlikely), what do you have for 2026? Keep in mind, Flacco hasn't started more than 6 games in a season since 2019 or a been season long starter since 2017. I don' give a damn about what the bias press says at this moment, let me see them on the field and see who grows into the position. Otherwise, 2026 will start with bigger question marks than 2025 at QB.

If they all bomb out the first 10-12 games, then insert Flacco then and load up for a QB in 2026.

My question! What level of QB is needed?

I mean, seriously. What level?

As we have seen over the past 20 years, acquiring the ideal quarterback is challenging.

I've argued this point with many! How low do you go at QB?

I get the argument. You can't win without a franchise QB. Fine! What is the definition of a franchise QB?

I believe that we fans have such a high expectation, unrealistic in my opinion, of what the next starting QB should be.

My goodness! A part of me wants Pickett to succeed, for the sure fact that it proves that the Steelers screwed up.

Is Pickett the best QB out there? Heck NO! BUT, can you win with Kenny?

Is Pickett better or worse than Goff? We just saw Hurts win in Philly. Goff vs Hurts? Pickett? Look at our rookies, Sanders and Gabriel.

Is it really Mahomes? How are Cincinnati and Buffalo doing with Burrow and Allen?

Does it not boil down to the team? This is where I think we fans lose sight of.

I agree with this logic, but the only issue is Bitonio came back for at least 1 more year. For what? A research year. The vets on this team deserve an opportunity for a chance to win. When the season starts the QB that gives the Browns the best chance of winning must be under center. If they Browns have a 2023 season and get a wild card berth. Great. It was not a lost season. Winning games builds culture. Losing also build culture and we have built enough of that culture over the years. If the team falls out of real contention that is when the research starts. Hopefully the Jags have as bad a season as they did last year. Hopefully Pickett or Sanders takes the reigns as QB and shows they are the future. Then next year becomes a load up on new talent year and reopen the window. If not 2 1st round picks will still give the Browns a chance at a franchise QB in the draft.

Of course, it boils down to team. This Brown FO has been on a 5-year quest to find a top 5 QB with Super Bowl/Franchise capabilities though. They had that in Mayfield but wanted to upgrade in their quest. 3-years later they are still on the quest while their discarded QB continues to highlight their poor judgement. In what could eventually go down as the worst trade in NFL history and 230M lost, the Browns are no closer to a franchise QB than they were in 2018 when they drafted Mayfield. In fact, one could argue that the Browns current QB issue is in worst shape than it was in 2018 when they drafted Mayfield #1 overall.

Think about what no one really wants to talk about. In 5 years, this Browns FO is no closer to a franchise QB than they were in 2018 combined with one of the worst trades in NFL history. This FO has moved on from one of the best RB's in Browns history with no viable proven replacement. This Browns FO has created the most revolving WR room in the league with still no clear #2 or #3 receivers locked in. This FO has an o-line that has aged and counting the TE has 5 of the 6 positions open next year due to contract expirations. Yet, we still have believers that this FO can turn this team around?

All of the above and Haslam has spent more money on players than any other team in the NFL the last 3-years. Excuse my negativeness, QB is only a portion of the problems this team has going on. Considering this FO record, at the end of the 2025 season, all these questions will still be prevalent. JMHO

Mayfield is better than what we had last year and this year no doubt. He is still not a franchise QB and will never be more than a capable of getting a team to the playoffs QB. He is no Joe Burrow or Lamer Jackson. Actually, the decision to draft Mayfield instead of Josh Allen is what is truely haunting the Browns.

The Browns went to 1 playoff game in the 20 years prior to this regime and now they have gone to 2 in those same 5 years. They made some mistakes no doubt. But they have earned the right to continue thru this season. I do feel that if they have a repeat of 2024 then changes must be made. The drafting of Dillon Gabriel was really telling me. The kid has no shot to be an NFL QB. Drafting him in the 3rd round was a mistake. It also tells me that if the team is picking top 5 again next season, I do not want them picking the next franchise QB. I think they would make the same mistake and take a Mayfield over a Josh Allen again. Carolina did the same thing taking the too short of a QB from Alabama over the 6'5 OSU QB. You would think team would learn.

I also think Chubb would have been an asset in 2025. Even if he was still not the same player, he once was his leadership would have been invaluable for the young RB's. Sure, looks now like Judkins needs to learn how to be a pro from someone like Chubb.

I agree with your assessment of Mayfield. I doubt he’ll ever lead a team to a Super Bowl.

You may be true about Mayfield but it's not like you're making a foolish bet. Each year there is only 1 QB winner of the Super Bowl. That's 3% of the QB's playing. In the last 10 years, there has been only 6 different QB winners and 3 of those are gone now. I keep hearing the same old adage that the Browns screwed up by not drafting Allen or Jackson instead. How many Super Bowls have they been too as of today - ZERO! They dumped Mayfield for a top 5 QB - how many Super Bowls has he produced in his career? Your expectations may be unachievable.

The difference is the talent level of those QB's. You either have a QB with the talent it takes to get you to and possibly win a SB or you don't. That's no guarantee they will lead you to and win you a SB. What it means is they possess the talent to give you a higher likelihood and good opportunity to do so.

Having a QB with lesser talent and a lesser skill set certainly decreases those odds. If you're not taking shots to try and win it all why have a team with lesser goals?

Claiming that all QB's give you the same odds of winning a SB, your 3% example is faulty. Not every QB gives you the same odds.

Believe it or not Steve I do agree with you. The Browns since the return quit on players too quickly. I applaud the organization for swinging for the fences. They thought Watson was the missing piece and they went for it. Problem is the baggage that came along with him and the price the team had to pay. I thought the Browns should have not given up on Derek Anderson until they actually found a replacement that could actually beat him out. Same for Brian Hoyer. Why replace proven players with question marks. While I applaud the FO for trying to win a Super Bowl. They had 1 year left on Mayfield's contract when they made the move. They should have rolled with Baker another year and not given up the assets they gave up. Had they missed the playoffs in 2022 with Baker, and they would have let him walk and then tried to find the next QB I don't think the fan base would be quite so upset at the results. We may very well still be sitting here with Flacco and some rookies like we are today but with 3 more 1st round draft picks on the roster and some more salary cap to play with. Maybe if they would have stayed patient Stefanski would have had his QB Cousins on the roster. They swung and missed and admitted they missed. Can't go back in time now.

I believe they need to have a much better season in 2025 or show something like Pickett or Sanders is the future or there will be a new GM and Coach in 2026. I think Haslam can handle a 6-to-10-win team with two 1st round picks next year. But another 3-win season and he will become impatient.

I have a major disconnect concerning your post. Since neither Derek Anderson nor Brian Hoyer never went on to be successful anywhere else in the league, did the Browns really give up on them too soon? How was moving ahead looking for an answer at the QB position from those two QB's that never accomplished anything else after they left here a mistake? The only thing that was proven after they left here is that they weren't NFL starters by any stretch of the imagination.

Both Josh and Lamar came out of college needing a lot of development. Does anybody honestly believe that the Browns would have developed either into what those 2 are now? Seriously, our HC was Hue Jackson

1000% spot on.

Because we replaced them with Deshone Kizer types. Derek Anderson by the way had some minimal success at Carolina after playing with the Browns.