DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Looking Back: Browns 17 Vikings 21 Postgame Thoughts

losers lose

Stefanski is a loser. His team loses.

This isn’t rocket science.

Another very winnable game we let get away. You could see it coming. Terrible!!!!!

Our defensive line was supposed to dominate their OL. Not so much. Ward got owned a few times. Gabriel played exactly like I expected, decent game manager. Quinn’s hon is a stud. Stefanski got badly out coached. He should play some Madden so he learns how to use timeouts.

LT and WR really stand out to me as being BAD

We scored our number. 17. Can't go beyond that number. Ever.

Even with the d setting up good FP, clean house AGAIN, all u hear is Kevin is great playcaller , when where don't see it

My biggest question is why our DL couldn’t dominate their OL? Like the defense just didn’t look dominant against a very injured OL. We got some sacks late but not when we need them most. Jefferson did whatever he wanted. Our DB’s aren’t good enough if the DL doesn’t get regular penetration. It should have been priority #1 to hit Wentz like constantly.

Gabriel looked pretty good, not spectacular, but no turnovers is a breath of fresh air. Just needed a little more.

Judkins is a stud.

Special teams weren’t terrible.

The good...Garbriel and Judkins look good. Judkins get an A, Gabriel a B+.

The bad...the LT was garbage. Judey continues to look like a lower level #2 receiver.

As far as the timeout situation, it could have gone either way. Take the 10 seconds and try to put some pressure on by running time down as much as we could, then again, saving time is what gave us at least some sort of chance at the end. Hard to say you could win with either decision.

The middle...the D in general. It wasn't a bad game by any means, but we gave up a lot of chunk plays when we could least afford to give up chunk plays.

Hope for jags to collaspe and use 2 first rounders next year for some weapons and line help

Saw nothing of the game; no streaming service or extra fees are worth following this steaming pile across the pond. Followed the NFL play tracker and here's what I know:

-Browns scored less than 20...again.
-4Q TOP in Browns favor, yet Vikings run 3 more plays than the Browns - Stinkfanski gifting clock time to the opponent makes that possible.
-Every Browns 4Q possession was a Punt (minus the final clock ran out)
-Cleveland seems to be unable to take control of a game and "impose their will" when it's needed most.

Same Stinkfanski story, different year. It seems the only status quo Haslam cares about is keeping his profit margin for his precious new bauble in Brook Park. Otherwise, he's seem OK with mediocre talent and coaching.

Well - those are my 2 Lincolns...see you all next week for our dose of dissappointment.

- A winnable game squandered against a team fielding 2nd and 3rd string offensive lineman. Browns even won the turnover battle 2-0 and still couldn't muster a win.

- I knew something was afoot when I saw Stefanski's new slicked back coif.

- Myles Garrett was not much a factor.

- Judkins is the only chance at an explosive play on offense.

- 10 penalties.

- Gabriel looked poised. Made some nice throws.

- Carson Wentz marched right down the field against the "#1 defense in the NFL"

- The offense still cannot score more than 17 points. It's pitiful.

- Maliek Collins had another nice game.

- Jeudy dropped one that would have gone for a nice gain and extended the drive. He stinks.

- Schwesinger fell for the banana in the tailpipe on the Akers TD throw.

Looking forward to Kev saying, "We own it. We'll learn from it. Players have to play better. Coaches have to coach better. We will be better."

I had to laugh late in the game when he ripped his helmet off because he was open and DG either didn't see him or chose to go another way. Hey Jerry, maybe if your hands, ability to get open and catch concentration were reliable, you might see the ball more.

There's always next year.

I'd take the other Kevin over our Kevin every single day and twice on Sundays.

3 point lead with 3 min left and nothing but run up the middle again, again, again as we did all game ---why did he not call play-action when all we need are two 1st downs??????????

Gabriel played okay. Not bad.

Defense didn't look really good, like they usually do.

Judkins was definitely worth the wait.

Jeudy drops the ball too often.

O line was sketchy again.

I'm not normally on the fire K. stefanski bandwagon, but I am today. 17 pts or less in 10 straight games? season is a bust anyways, let Schwartz finish it out, can't get any worse.

Cam Robinson coming in and getting back-to-back penalties was par for the course.

The Browns have only scored 20 or more points three times in the past 22 games. Abysmal.

Judkins is a stud - thought that during the game and saw that expression used by someone above ... I felt like it was the case when we saw him last game - but he cemented that impression today.

Gabriel - first NFL start. Behind a really bad OL. Against a good D. Played wayyyy better than the 'he played OK' I've seen posted. Dude made some great plays - some of his best plays being to just not lose yards when overwhelmed. He looked good. Rushed some throws which ended up sailing high - but safe.

Jeudy - Barf 🤮 - he can be WR3 next year or not on the team hopefully.

DL - MG .. a bit perplexing how they were so thoroughly neutered. Also how the quick throws didn't get squeezed ... seemed like there was nearly always a guy ready to catch it 4-6 yards up field towards the sidelines.

Newsome flashed on some plays - but Jefferson is probably the best - if not top 3 - WR in the NFL. Wentz played well also... it's an impossible combination to prevent some chunk plays.

It was a great play call and execution on the playaction pass for a TD ... I don't understand why KS didn't use that when we were trying to eek out the clock at the end of the game. Oh - I'd have to go back and check - but did we get pass happy again in the 3rd Q after the run game was working pretty damn well?

On to the Steelers - lets punch them in the throat and hopefully be a bit more aggressive next week and get a W.

Gabriel was serviceable. He did not play bad. He did not lose this game. He did not win it either. With that said he orchestrated Stefanski's offense, did not turn the ball over, and the team still could only muster 17 pts. Pathetic. Stefanski has to be shown the door soon.

we had the ball at our own 40 yard line with 3:30 left, up by 3 and they had a loaded box. I really thought that was the time to run PA or one of our boot plays

In the 3rd quarter the Browns had 10 runs to 3 passes on their lone possession in the 3rd quarter that resulted in a TD.

I thought they might actually score 20 points at this point. Oops!

Where there you go. I looked and we threw more in the 4th Q - but nothing I would describe as pass happy. My bad.

Thrilled the Browns have him locked up for a couple more years.

Jeudy was fine before he got that contract

Berry gave Jeudy a new contract extension days after trading for him.

Kevin needs to go.......maybe we can grab Jerry Neuheisel before UCLA locks him down?
DG looked fine for a first outing. Judkins is improving each game.....

Conservative play calling and soft zone coverage to blow leads at the end of games has been our mantra for decades.

At this point just don't think it will ever change.

Actually if I remember correctly when we got him one of the the last sentences in the article I read about him said something to the effect that he drops the ball a bit too much at times.

I thought the offense played well considering that we starting a rookie QB in his first game with a sub-par Oline and no WRs that can catch a pass. Disappointed in the defense, we were playing freaking Carson Wentz and a very banged up Oline and yet we couldn't get consistent pressure, plus we seemed to have break downs at very crucial times.

especially when you consider it was Jerry Sherk's number

At least some things are coming into shape. We know we have a terrible OL. We know we have terrible WR's. We know we have a rotten coach and GM (but we already knew that). It seems every year when we have a chances to win close games our defense never makes the big play that closes out the game.

I got castrated for saying we need to trade Garrett. Well, we need to trade Garrett and get a massive haul in draft capital. We are nothing to win anything in the next few years so why not trade him?

72 is the worst OL we've ever started (and think about those names .. Roman Oben, Joaquin Gonzalez, James Hudson, etc)

Don't look now but the Steelers have a clear shot for the division title. I can't see any of the teams in our division challenging them.

nope, they'll win it now

If we trade Myles that creates another big hole that we won't be able to fix for 5 years. We need to get out from under the DW contract mess and draft better. At least this year's class looks promising.

I am about ready to be done with the Stefanski experiement. He was about as creative as one of the rocks in my landscaping in my yard. His playcalling and decision making were abysmal, especially in the final 2 minutes of the game.

I thought that Gabriel was OK, especially for his 1st game, in difficult circumstances.

OK, it's been 6 hours since the game ended, when is the draft forum opening?

yeah unfortunately we've seen the KS offense and it is kinda grown stale. It's got very little ceiling to it

"We're going back to the Stefanksi offense!"

It is stale and it has been stale.

The Browns had zero turnovers. The defenses forced two turnovers and Judkins rushed for over 100 yards and they still managed to score only 17 points.

Meanwhile, Baker is now a top 5 quarterback. These idiots couldn’t make it work with him, and we’re all supposed to just agree that he was immature and had to move on to become great. But we were there: he had one of the greatest rookie years a QB ever had. They saddled him with terrible coaches and new coordinators every year, but he still produced. And when he played hurt, they trashed him. They treated him like garbage while they went after the pervert. There is no case for keeping Berry and Stefanski.

Grab someone from the San Fran , rams coaching tree and go

Baker himself admitted it was what he needed to grow up and be who he is now

Seeing Gabriel next to Wentz after the game..

It was like a pro player next to a high school QB

Gabriel seems so much more mature than the 2018 Baker

The Browns might have a Baker who lots wish they still had

Again just one game.

There were many reasons why the Browns didn't win

I wish all games started at 9:30 am

A pot of coffee and a football game to start the day was nice

Courtesy of Tankathon.



https://www.tankathon.com/nfl

Pittsburgh in the divisional

we will draft in the top 5 IMO. If we can't win a game against a depleted team who gives us 2 TO's, a missed FG ... we won't win many

It looked like "take your kid to work" day.

Great way of saying it

Just looking at a few clips, there's no way we trot out the same LT next week. He had to have graded out at like a 0

From The Athletic:

Addison, who didn’t play in the first quarter due to a coach’s decision, finished with five receptions for 41 yards and the game-winning touchdown. Wentz finished 25 of 34 for 236 yards and a lone TD. Vikings coach Kevin O’Connell said after the game that Addison missed a walkthrough earlier in the week.

“Those types of things aren’t in alignment with our standards, and I wanted to make sure he was held accountable for that,” O’Connell said. “But at the same time, he knows that. I thought he handled it professionally. He spoke with the team to let them know that whenever I gave him the opportunity to go in the game, they could count on him, and he makes the game-winning catch.”

....

How the Browns were unable to take advantage of this is remarkable.

At one point Sunday afternoon, the Vikings were playing their third-string left tackle, third-string left guard, third-string center and third-string right tackle. Still, they managed to eke out the game.

Lol KT Leveston has to be the worst LT in NFL history.

I know Cam Robinson probably isn't any good either, no way anyone is trading a good offensive lineman away at this stage of the season. But he can't possibly be worse.

Don't remember exactly how it went, but watched him not touch anyone on a sack. The defense ran a stunt and he was dumbfounded. He has to go.

God bless Gabriel, he was pretty decent today against a good defense.

Stand him next to me. He will look like a giant

It really was a disgusting loss. A bunch of back up offensive linemen for the most part dominated our so called dominant defensive line.

We dont have any receivers that can create consistent separation. Thats why we rely so much on our tight ends.

Stefanski using our last two timeouts and giving the vikings more time to run thwre game winning drive instead of forcing them to use thier last timeout and put the pressure on them was one of the dumbest coaching decisions I have ever seen.

While we were chasing Pickett and Flacco, we could’ve signed Wentz. Not that he’s great, but he would’ve been a much better option than either of those two.

It seems like that. Then again the saved time at least gave us a chance at the end. A slim chance, but a chance.

I think that was a classic case of being damned if you do, damned if you don't. Either way he was going to have people condemning the decision unless we somehow won.

What lost the game at the end was the Viking seemingly easy TD drive.

KOC showed the right way to beat our defense (Seattle did this a few years ago, Houston did it in the playoffs, Colts did it a few years ago etc) ... misdirection, quick passes, attack the edges, use Myles against us, etc

Our defense adjusted, but as always, ran out of gas it seemed. No pressure to speak of the last drive

I know we got him from the Rams I think for a 7th round pick. Maybe we can try him at guard I heard he was an aggressive run blocker.

I said he's the worst OL we've ever had (think about how BAD some of our OL were from like 99-10 too)

Once again, we see that no lead is safe with our secondary. We are late, slow, and out of position, especially in the red zone. No press off line.
We have a handful of guys wasting efforts of this team. KS is really hurting us. Repeatedly. So, who are we tanking for?

It seems we cannot carry him enough, even with the help we gave him. ST are still spotty on a good day. We will waste some newly-found weapons on O with KS .

ST cost us again. Lavardain letting it roll to the 1 and then Sunahara not even needing to touch it, but then having his foot in the end zone. Just dumb

Like everyone else < this was a very disappointing loss . I am over Kevin Stefanski . On a side note I had to listen to this game on the radio and I also was not impressed with Andrew or Nathan . They made it very hard to visualize the game as it was being played if that makes sense ?

I thought DG played well, considering. I finally got around to watching the second season of Quarterback on Netflix, and there were several remarks about playing a Brian Flores defense on a short week (which we essentially did with the extended travel). He had some misses, but I felt like DG showed it wasn't too big for him.... I feel like that could be a big positive as we exit this hellacious starting stretch of our schedule.

Judkins can ball. This cat is the real deal and the cherry on top would be pairing him up with another capable back to create a relentless tandem. I feel like whenever he steps off the field and Ford comes in the running game grinds to a halt.

Defense was really disappointing. Not sure how a 2nd/3rd string Oline and Wentz can put the alleged #1 NFL D on skates and march straight down the field when they need to. It's not fair, but this D is supposed to carry this team and those last couple drives just weren't it.

Oline is bad AND undisciplined. Announcers were saying we were swapping Leveston and Robinson throughout the game... I know that sucks in terms of getting settled in, but the last thing this offense needs is getting sent backwards by procedural errors. Our Oline is in a bad state and there's not much we can do about it prior to end of season.

WR room is equally bad, but at least we can lean more on our TEs. No way we can let Njoku walk with a Jeudy-led WR room. And with Tillman hurt and ineffective, he's really all we got. Bond seems to be coming along nicely. My hope is that as the season progresses the offense will start to open up with DG and we start pushing the ball downfield a little more.


The missed opportunity for a win hurts, but we have a lot going on this year. I was NOT a fan of starting a mid-round rookie against a defense like Minny on what was essentially a short week, but I gotta admit that he was pretty low on our list of issues.


Biggest takeaway of the day, however, is that my birria recipe still slaps.

They are atrocious. I remember listening last year while traveling for work and it went something like:

"He drops back, looking, touchdown. In comes the kicker to try the extra point." - Siciliano

"You just can't have that." - Zegura

Never said who caught the TD, who was in coverage, etc..

-The defense didn't provide a whole lot of pressure considering their OL injuries.
- Our LT is putrid. I cannot imagine him starting another game.
- I thought Gabriel had a good game as a rookie...something to build on and perhaps the playbook opens up a bit more as a result.
- Judkins had another good game.
- Garrett had his once-a-game offsides. It's the most consistent thing to this team.
- Rookies continue to show promise even though it doesn't result in a win.

Holy Jalisco! We need to get this man to a tailgate!


Missed the game yesterday as I was out of town. Occasionally checked the scoreboard on my phone since I figured I would watch after-the-fact to see DG's debut (in the past I would sequester myself from all info because I would be sooo excited to come home and watch the game).

After looking at the stats and reading here, probably not. Not because he sucked, mostly because my state of apathy has reached the point of looking at this charade from a sheer standpoint of investing my time.

Funny, I checked in to see us up 20-17 and saw the Vikings were getting close enough for a game-tying FG. Told my wife it was probably going to OT. Checked-in a few minutes later and lol'ed... "Nope, we figured it would probably be easier to just let them go ahead and score a touchdown". 🤣

I like that your memory took a glass-half full approach. Believing the Browns actually scored 20 points in a single game. Too cute!

Lol. Yep. Can't even recall the score correctly!

Sheesh.

Gabriel looked pretty good. Not great but for a first start I have to give him credit. No turnovers and 2 td's. DG was smart enough not to force the ball. When the WR wasn't open he threw the ball away. It doesn't look sexy but turnovers and sacks look much worse. It seems as though what I expected played out. You don't call plays that overwhelm him in his first start against a very good defense. You start out with the basic and safe as a foundation and build your way up from there. People claiming they should have opened up the playbook in this kids first NFL start against this defense are not being objective about it.

Judkins is running well. He broke 100 yards. That's a positive that will bode well moving forward. With the lead late in the game the D seemed to just roll over. The Vikings marched right down the field with what seemed to be of little effort. I have no idea what happened there. This vaunted D-line overall got very little pressure on Wentz.

Zac isn't wrong - but he was a very vocal proponent for ousting Baker ... at the time he wrote many articles essentially saying the Browns and Kevin Stefanski were only being held back by one thing - their (injured) QB.

I feel like there's a lot of that going on (romanticizing Baker's time here).

To an extent, I agree....I'm not going to rehash the Baker now vs then argument.


I think putting this loss on the offense is an odd take. We had the lead going into the last drive and we allegedly have the top defense in the league. Despite the line being a mess and a rookie QBs first start, we were just 1 defensive stop away from getting a win against a good team.

Yes, the offense sucks and the offense is KS's baby... but the reality is this year is going to go exactly how far the defense can carry us.

The league scoring average is 23 points a game. The Browns defense gave up 21 points. Under the league average. I just don't believe you can pin this loss on them for giving up the late drive. How much more can we ask of them. If the Browns offense was just average and scored 23 points a game the team would be 3-2. The 1-4 start is all on Stefanski's offense.

They gave up 2 points less than league average to an offense led by Carson Wentz and backup and 3rd string Oline. The "#1" defense did that.

The #1 defense had the lead and needed 1 stop vs largely backups and got walked down the field. They didn't even hold them to a field goal.

Yet the Browns D was rated #1 going into the game. That isn't "league average".

Zoinks!

They held their opponent under the league scoring average. That is what great defenses do. The sorry offense could only muster 17 pts. even off two forced turnovers from the defense. I guess you want the defense to start blocking and catching passes now.

Well now he isn't here, he's kind of like the back up QB... much easier to love the player that isn't starting syndrome. I've always liked him as a Brown, thought despite the immaturity he was a good QB and sort of epitomized the character of the city with his play. The Bottom line he is gone.

I think KS / Offense gets a good portion of the blame for so many short series making it harder on the D ... Zac clearly questioned some of the play calls (as did the announcers to be fair)... but again, bottom line is that the D had a chance to stop them on the final drive and didn't. Kudos to the Vikings - per these stats, they had an excellent game plan to overcome their OL situation and executed.

Good coaching!!!

That might be ok for an average/mediocre defense. Are you subtly trying to say the defense is not as good as most people are saying? I would argue that the personnel the Vikings had pass-blocking and throwing, just barely doing better than league average would be bad for even an average defense.

They blew a late game lead. Simple as that. Maybe that's just a little bit too simple for you. The Vikings marched right down the field on them with little resistance. You know, by that offensive genius QB Carson Wentz.

It happens. Just like you blame the offense when they can't make a late game scoring drive to win. Or does it only work in one direction for you?

If not for the defense the Browns offense would have only posted 3 pts. The offense scored the other 14 off turnovers forced by the same defense you say lost the game. Without the defensive effort there is not late game drive.

So when they don't score it's the fault of the O and when they do score you give the defense credit for it. I see and so does everyone else.

The only touchdowns the offense had were off of the two turnovers produced by the defense. Why is that so hard to figure out? The Browns offense only scored 3 points driving the length of the field. Gabriel was Stefanski's handpicked QB according to sources around Cleveland. He did not turn the ball over. That was good. He did not lose the game, but he did not win it either. He really did not throw the ball down the field either or over the middle. If he is going to be QB, he must throw the ball down the field and over the middle. Also, the offense could not get a first down when they got the ball late. Blaming the defense for this loss is ridiculous. They held their opponent under the league scoring average and set up the majority of points the offense achieved. The offense scored well under the league average, but you don't blame them. I get it through. The Browns have scored under the league average 21 of last 25 games except with Jamies Winston was at QB so it is your expectations to be average.

So you're saying this defense is average. Weird take.

How am I saying it is average? I am saying they held an NFL football team offense under the league scoring average. That is not easy to do. Look at the scores. Unless you're defending a Kevin Stefanski offense then it is a little easier to accomplish.