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Originally Posted by northlima dawg
10 point plan that Iran sent

1. Guarantee that Iran will not be attacked again
2. Permanent end to the war, not just a ceasefire
3. End to Israeli strikes in Lebanon
4. Lifting of all US sanctions on Iran
5. End to all regional fighting against Iranian allies
6.In return, Iran would open the Strait of Hormuz
7. Iran would impose a Hormuz fee of $2 million per ship
8.Iran would split these fees with Oman
9. Iran to provide rules for safe passage through Hormuz
10. Iran to use Hormuz fees for reconstruction instead of reparations

Iranian Foreign Minister Abbas Araghchi has announced Iran will agree to a ceasefire "if attacks against Iran are halted".

He continues "for a period of two weeks, safe passage through the Strait of Hormuz will be possible".

Ceasefire is extremely welcome.

But nothing about regime change. Nothing about uranium. Nothing about nuclear capacity. . . . So far. Maybe that will come in further negotiations.

My gut says we'll end up with something very similar to what we had in place before Trump undid it in Term 1.

Last edited by mgh888; 04/08/26 03:06 AM.

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PitDAWG #2135851 04/08/26 05:51 AM
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Originally Posted by PitDAWG
Trump says "a whole civilization will die tonight" if no deal is reached with Iran

Washington — President Trump said a "whole civilization will die tonight" unless a deal is reached with Iran by his Tuesday night deadline.

"I don't want that to happen, but it probably will," the president said in a post on Truth Social Tuesday morning...........


Yeah, it's the dems who are radical. rolleyes

Can't you just man up for once and admit trump has gone off the deep end instead of deflecting?

It was never going to happen. Going off the deep end would have been if all that happened. Doing something like that and saying something like that are two different matters.

One would have been horrible. The other lead us to what could possibly lead to a satisfactory ending. We'll see.


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mgh888 #2135852 04/08/26 06:09 AM
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Originally Posted by mgh888
Originally Posted by northlima dawg
10 point plan that Iran sent

1. Guarantee that Iran will not be attacked again
2. Permanent end to the war, not just a ceasefire
3. End to Israeli strikes in Lebanon
4. Lifting of all US sanctions on Iran
5. End to all regional fighting against Iranian allies
6.In return, Iran would open the Strait of Hormuz
7. Iran would impose a Hormuz fee of $2 million per ship
8.Iran would split these fees with Oman
9. Iran to provide rules for safe passage through Hormuz
10. Iran to use Hormuz fees for reconstruction instead of reparations

Iranian Foreign Minister Abbas Araghchi has announced Iran will agree to a ceasefire "if attacks against Iran are halted".

He continues "for a period of two weeks, safe passage through the Strait of Hormuz will be possible".

Ceasefire is extremely welcome.

But nothing about regime change. Nothing about uranium. Nothing about nuclear capacity. . . . So far. Maybe that will come in further negotiations.

My gut says we'll end up with something very similar to what we had in place before Trump undid it in Term 1.

We'll see. I would bet it is a little stricter. I doubt they get a toll fee. That is like charging people to cross the Atlantic. They need to quit acting like they own the strait. I also doubt they get away without giving up any and all uranium and without inspections.

I could see the lifting of sanctions, but it would be in steps as Iran earns the right to have them eased. They won't go away overnight.

A guarantee they won't be attacked again? I don't see how we could guarantee we would never attack England. Who knows what the future holds?

They are also leaving out a lot of other things like no supporting and funding terror around the world. Human rights issues in their country.


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Ballpeen #2135854 04/08/26 07:02 AM
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Well everyone wants more safety no matter what route we ended up taking to get there. I surely hope that there is an agreement that covers enriched Uranium, the sponsorship of terrorism, and an end to charging ships to pass through the straights.

My concern is we aren't more safe particularly. Iran showed that without a significant military threat they could inflict enough pain to make the USA want to end the war. They have had regime change from going from an 80+ year old Ayatollah to his son - an unknown quality who is unlikely to be less tyrannical. So no nett gain. We've alienated, abused, mocked western allies and NATO members - unjustly. The NATO countries stuck to their guns and said "not our war - not our mess - not a NATO matter". The only person loving that is Putin. We also gave Putin a MASSIVE financial windfall when the Russian economy was truly hurting, helping their efforts in Ukraine.

Vance earlier claiming that the Military completed every objective is an absolute joke that no-one on the entire planet believes. Trump and the US look foolish and worse - unstable. I think in 30 years time - China will be closer to all these Middle Eastern countries than the USA. We'll see if NATO survives. I have heard several commentators ask the question - if Putin invaded, say, Poland or another bordering NATO country. Do we have complete and utter conviction that Trump would honor NATO commitments? Not any more. Probably? Sure - but it is not 100%. That's a price that this Iran conflict and the unstable, irrational way in which Trump has conducted himself has cost and it is not worth whatever gains we may make assuming the further negotiations go the way we hope.


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How Trump Took the U.S. to War With Iran

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April 7, 2026 


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I suppose you did come up with an excuse for a president to sound like a raving lunatic. "At least he didn't really do it."


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It's simply an agreement for a temporary 14 day ceasefire. It's not even negotiations for a lasting peace. I saw Hegseth on TV earlier making it sound like the war is over and we won based on that and that alone.

We all hope this will eventually lead to an end to the war. I'm tired of watching someone who said if the Democrats were elected there would be a war in the middle east but if he were elected that wouldn't happen, risk the life of our troops when it isn't needed. It's odd how they applaud him when he claims he won't start a war in the middle east then applaud him when he does. It's like they promote him lying to them out loud. They sound almost as crazy as he does.


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Just heard Iran once again blocked the strait of Hormuz because Israel bombed Lebanon. IMO Israel is willing to do anything to keep us involved in Iran to meet their own agenda and it's worked thus far.


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Originally Posted by PitDAWG
Just heard Iran once again blocked the strait of Hormuz because Israel bombed Lebanon. IMO Israel is willing to do anything to keep us involved in Iran to meet their own agenda and it's worked thus far.

Well you can debate a whole bunch of different issues regarding this war, the goals, whether we succeeded ... on this statement, I think it's almost impossible to find a counter point.

* To Add - anyone that thinks any ceasefire will immediately open up the straits to large volumes of shipping is mistaken. Insurance companies and shippers will be slow to trust the situation - made worse with Israel's actions.

Last edited by mgh888; 04/08/26 11:22 AM.

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Originally Posted by Ballpeen
Originally Posted by mgh888
Originally Posted by northlima dawg
10 point plan that Iran sent

1. Guarantee that Iran will not be attacked again
2. Permanent end to the war, not just a ceasefire
3. End to Israeli strikes in Lebanon
4. Lifting of all US sanctions on Iran
5. End to all regional fighting against Iranian allies
6.In return, Iran would open the Strait of Hormuz
7. Iran would impose a Hormuz fee of $2 million per ship
8.Iran would split these fees with Oman
9. Iran to provide rules for safe passage through Hormuz
10. Iran to use Hormuz fees for reconstruction instead of reparations

Iranian Foreign Minister Abbas Araghchi has announced Iran will agree to a ceasefire "if attacks against Iran are halted".

He continues "for a period of two weeks, safe passage through the Strait of Hormuz will be possible".

Ceasefire is extremely welcome.

But nothing about regime change. Nothing about uranium. Nothing about nuclear capacity. . . . So far. Maybe that will come in further negotiations.

My gut says we'll end up with something very similar to what we had in place before Trump undid it in Term 1.

We'll see. I would bet it is a little stricter. I doubt they get a toll fee. That is like charging people to cross the Atlantic. They need to quit acting like they own the strait. I also doubt they get away without giving up any and all uranium and without inspections.

I could see the lifting of sanctions, but it would be in steps as Iran earns the right to have them eased. They won't go away overnight.

A guarantee they won't be attacked again? I don't see how we could guarantee we would never attack England. Who knows what the future holds?

They are also leaving out a lot of other things like no supporting and funding terror around the world. Human rights issues in their country.

This is just the plan that Iran submitted. I doubt we have responded to it, and so far I haven't seen a similar list come from the US side. I do kinda wonder what that list is going to look like, given the dubious reasons under which this whole thing was kicked off.


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Pakistan's prime minister urging 'restraint' amid reports of ceasefire 'violations'

Pakistan's Prime Minister Muhammad Shehbaz Sharif is urging "restraint" amid reports of ceasefire violations, he said in a post on X.

"Violations of ceasefire have been reported at few places across the conflict zone which undermine the spirit of peace process," Sharif said in the post.

"I earnestly and sincerely urge all parties to exercise restraint and respect the ceasefire for two weeks, as agreed upon, so that diplomacy can take a lead role towards peaceful settlement of the conflict," the prime minister added.

Sharif did not say specify where the violations took place.

Sharif tagged accounts for President Donald Trump, Vice President JD Vance, Secretary of State Marco Rubio and others, along with the Iranian president and the Iranian foreign minister....................

IRGC says it downed drone over Fars Province

The Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps said in a statement that it intercepted and destroyed a Hermes 900 drone over the central province of Fars, Iran, on Wednesday, according to the semi‑official Fars News Agency.

The incident was reported after Iran’s oil ministry’s news outlet said the country’s Lavan oil refinery was hit by a strike earlier on Wednesday. Israel denied involvement in the Lavan explosion.............

Trump says Lebanon not included in deal: ‘That’s a separate skirmish’

President Donald Trump said that Lebanon is not included in the two-week ceasefire with Iran, in a phone interview with PBS.

"Yeah they were not included in the deal," Trump told PBS.

Asked why, Trump said, “because of Hezbollah. They were not included in the deal.”

“That’ll get taken care of too. It’s alright," Trump said.

Asked if he is comfortable with Israel continuing to strike Lebanon, the president claimed this is a "separate skirmish.”

“It’s part of the deal - everyone knows that. That’s a separate skirmish,” Trump said, according to PBS.........................

Israeli attacks hit Beirut's 'densely populated residential' areas, Lebanese PM says

Lebanon's Prime Minister Nawaf Salam welcomed news of a ceasefire in Iran, but pushed for a similar agreement in Lebanon, saying in a post on X that Israel's strikes there continue to show "utter disregard for the principles of international law and international humanitarian law, which it has never respected in the first place."

Salam said the Israeli attacks undermine international efforts to stop the war.

"Israel continues to expand its aggressions that have targeted densely populated residential neighborhoods, claiming the lives of unarmed civilians in various parts of Lebanon, particularly in the capital Beirut," he said. "All friends of Lebanon are called upon to help us stop these aggressions by all available means."

https://abcnews.com/International/l...7nW28l9vZCZBc_aem_7vMTPE8zcFRqkEflgFP6Uw


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Originally Posted by PitDAWG
Just heard Iran once again blocked the strait of Hormuz because Israel bombed Lebanon. IMO Israel is willing to do anything to keep us involved in Iran to meet their own agenda and it's worked thus far.

89 reported killed on the strike on Lebanon. Trump says Lebanon and Hezbollah are not part of the deal-Iran said they were.
Iran has closed the straight again-

Pakistan has noted many violations of the ceasefire agreement already.
Iran has struck back in various countries including an Saudi oil pipeline

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While I was certainly hoping for better results this is going about as I had expected.


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Al Jazerra just reported that there were reports of missiles and/ or drones fired at Kuwait, UAE, Qatar and Saudi. Arabia today.

The toll from the strike 112 dead and 837 injured from the Lebanon strike

PitDAWG #2135884 04/08/26 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by PitDAWG
While I was certainly hoping for better results this is going about as I had expected.

Iran just put out a statement that if Israel continues any attacks, they are pulling out of the deal and are already preparing retaliatory attacks

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The so called cease fire didn't last long...I guess the American people shouldn't expect much from our leaders or the Iranians.


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The problem as I see it, or at least wonder is do the leaders in Iran have control over the military? My feeling is there at least some elements of the Iranian military who are rogue from whoever says they are leading Iran. The military might have the power over some 4th string diplomat.


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According to Iran's Constitution, the Supreme Leader is responsible for the delineation and supervision of "the general policies of the Islamic Republic of Iran," which means that he sets the tone and direction of Iran's domestic and foreign policies. The Supreme Leader also is commander-in-chief of the armed forces and controls the Islamic Republic's intelligence and security operations; he alone can declare war or peace. He has the power to appoint and dismiss the leaders of the judiciary, the state radio and television networks, and the supreme commander of the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps. He also appoints six of the twelve members of the Council of Guardians, the powerful body that oversees the activities of Parliament and determines which candidates are qualified to run for public office.

The Supreme Leader's sphere of power is extended through his representatives, an estimated 2,000 of whom are sprinkled throughout all sectors of the government and who serve as the Leader's clerical field operatives. In some respects the Supreme Leader's representatives are more powerful than the president's ministers and have the authority to intervene in any matter of state on the Supreme Leader's behalf.

You bring up a lot of maybe's and could be's but there's nothing to indicate that's correct. All sources are indicating that these terms are being negotiated by the actual powers of Iran. Not some 4th string diplomat.


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Originally Posted by Ballpeen
The problem as I see it, or at least wonder is do the leaders in Iran have control over the military? My feeling is there at least some elements of the Iranian military who are rogue from whoever says they are leading Iran. The military might have the power over some 4th string diplomat.



Iran's military leaders have control over Iran's government.

Iran has a military dictatorship..!


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How Trump Took the U.S. to War With Iran
In a series of Situation Room meetings, President Trump weighed his instincts against the deep concerns of his vice president and a pessimistic intelligence assessment. Here’s the inside story of how he made the fateful decision.

The decision by President Trump to give the go-ahead to join Israel in attacking Iran was influenced by a presentation by Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu in February that led to a series of discussions inside the White House over the following days and weeks.Credit...Al Drago for The New York Times

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Jonathan SwanMaggie Haberman
By Jonathan Swan and Maggie Haberman
Jonathan Swan and Maggie Haberman, both White House reporters for The Times, are the co-authors of the forthcoming “Regime Change: Inside the Imperial Presidency of Donald Trump.” This article is drawn from reporting done for that book.
April 7, 2026
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The black S.U.V. carrying Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu arrived at the White House just before 11 a.m. on Feb. 11. The Israeli leader, who had been pressing for months for the United States to agree to a major assault on Iran, was whisked inside with little ceremony, out of view of reporters, primed for one of the most high-stakes moments in his long career.

U.S. and Israeli officials gathered first in the Cabinet Room, adjacent to the Oval Office. Then Mr. Netanyahu headed downstairs for the main event: a highly classified presentation on Iran for President Trump and his team in the White House Situation Room, which was rarely used for in-person meetings with foreign leaders.

Mr. Trump sat down, but not in his usual position at the head of the room’s mahogany conference table. Instead, the president took a seat on one side, facing the large screens mounted along the wall. Mr. Netanyahu sat on the other side, directly opposite the president.

Appearing on the screen behind the prime minister was David Barnea, the director of Mossad, Israel’s foreign intelligence agency, as well as Israeli military officials. Arrayed visually behind Mr. Netanyahu, they created the image of a wartime leader surrounded by his team.


David Barnea, the director of Mossad, Israel’s foreign intelligence agency, Mr. Netanyahu and Israeli military officials all participated in the high-stakes meeting with Mr. Trump in the White House Situation Room.Credit...Amir Cohen/Reuters; Eric Lee for The New York Times
Susie Wiles, the White House chief of staff, sat at the far end of the table. Secretary of State Marco Rubio, who doubled as the national security adviser, had taken his regular seat. Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth and Gen. Dan Caine, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, who generally sat together in such settings, were on one side; joining them was John Ratcliffe, the C.I.A. director. Jared Kushner, the president’s son-in-law, and Steve Witkoff, Mr. Trump’s special envoy, who had been negotiating with the Iranians, rounded out the main group.

The gathering had been kept deliberately small to guard against leaks. Other top cabinet secretaries had no idea it was happening. Also absent was the vice president. JD Vance was in Azerbaijan, and the meeting had been scheduled on such short notice that he was unable to make it back in time.

The presentation that Mr. Netanyahu would make over the next hour would be pivotal in setting the United States and Israel on the path toward a major armed conflict in the middle of one of the world’s most volatile regions. And it would lead to a series of discussions inside the White House over the following days and weeks, the details of which have not been previously reported, in which Mr. Trump weighed his options and the risks before giving the go-ahead to join Israel in attacking Iran.

This account of how Mr. Trump took the United States into war is drawn from reporting for a forthcoming book, “Regime Change: Inside the Imperial Presidency of Donald Trump.” It reveals how the deliberations inside the administration highlighted the president’s instincts, his inner circle’s fractures and the way he runs the White House. It draws on extensive interviews conducted on the condition of anonymity to recount internal discussions and sensitive issues.
The reporting underscores how closely Mr. Trump’s hawkish thinking aligned with Mr. Netanyahu’s over many months, more so than even some of the president’s key advisers recognized. Their close association has been an enduring feature across two administrations, and that dynamic — however fraught at times — has fueled intense criticism and suspicion on both the left and the right of American politics.

And it shows how, in the end, even the more skeptical members of Mr. Trump’s war cabinet — with the stark exception of Mr. Vance, the figure inside the White House most opposed to a full-scale war — deferred to the president’s instincts, including his abundant confidence that the war would be quick and decisive. The White House declined to comment.

6 Takeaways From the Story of Trump’s Decision to Go to War With Iran
April 7, 2026
In the Situation Room on Feb. 11, Mr. Netanyahu made a hard sell, suggesting that Iran was ripe for regime change and expressing the belief that a joint U.S.-Israeli mission could finally bring an end to the Islamic Republic.

At one point, the Israelis played for Mr. Trump a brief video that included a montage of potential new leaders who could take over the country if the hard-line government fell. Among those featured was Reza Pahlavi, the exiled son of Iran’s last shah, now a Washington-based dissident who had tried to position himself as a secular leader who could shepherd Iran toward a post-theocratic government.
Mr. Netanyahu and his team outlined conditions they portrayed as pointing to near-certain victory: Iran’s ballistic missile program could be destroyed in a few weeks. The regime would be so weakened that it could not choke off the Strait of Hormuz, and the likelihood that Iran would land blows against U.S. interests in neighboring countries was assessed as minimal.

Besides, Mossad’s intelligence indicated that street protests inside Iran would begin again and — with the impetus of the Israeli spy agency helping to foment riots and rebellion — an intense bombing campaign could foster the conditions for the Iranian opposition to overthrow the regime. The Israelis also raised the prospect of Iranian Kurdish fighters crossing the border from Iraq to open a ground front in the northwest, further stretching the regime’s forces and accelerating its collapse.

Mr. Netanyahu delivered his presentation in a confident monotone. It seemed to land well with the most important person in the room, the American president.

Sounds good to me, Mr. Trump told the prime minister. To Mr. Netanyahu, this signaled a likely green light for a joint U.S.-Israeli operation.

Mr. Netanyahu was not the only one who came away from the meeting with the impression that Mr. Trump had all but made up his mind. The president’s advisers could see that he had been deeply impressed by the promise of what Mr. Netanyahu’s military and intelligence services could do, just as he had been when the two men spoke before the 12-day war with Iran in June.
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Earlier in his White House visit on Feb. 11, Mr. Netanyahu had tried to focus the minds of the Americans assembled in the Cabinet Room on the existential threat posed by Iran’s 86-year-old supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei.

When others in the room asked the prime minister about possible risks in the operation, Mr. Netanyahu acknowledged these but made one central point: In his view, the risks of inaction were greater than the risks of action. He argued that the price of action would only grow if they delayed striking and allowed Iran more time to accelerate its missile production and create a shield of immunity around its nuclear program.

Everyone in the room understood that Iran had the capacity to build up its missile and drone stockpiles at a far lower cost and much more quickly than the United States could build and supply the much more expensive interceptors to protect American interests and allies in the region.

Mr. Netanyahu’s presentations — and Mr. Trump’s positive response to them — created an urgent task for the U.S. intelligence community. Overnight, analysts worked to assess the viability of what the Israeli team had told the president.

‘Farcical’

The results of the U.S. intelligence analysis were shared the following day, Feb. 12, in another meeting for only American officials in the Situation Room. Before Mr. Trump arrived, two senior intelligence officials briefed the president’s inner circle.
The intelligence officials had deep expertise in U.S. military capabilities, and they knew the Iranian system and its players inside out. They had broken down Mr. Netanyahu’s presentation into four parts. First was decapitation — killing the ayatollah. Second was crippling Iran’s capacity to project power and threaten its neighbors. Third was a popular uprising inside Iran. And fourth was regime change, with a secular leader installed to govern the country.

The U.S. officials assessed that the first two objectives were achievable with American intelligence and military power. They assessed that the third and fourth parts of Mr. Netanyahu’s pitch, which included the possibility of the Kurds mounting a ground invasion of Iran, were detached from reality.

When Mr. Trump joined the meeting, Mr. Ratcliffe briefed him on the assessment. The C.I.A. director used one word to describe the Israeli prime minister’s regime change scenarios: “farcical.”
Image
John Ratcliffe, the C.I.A. director, cautioned against considering regime change an achievable objective in a Situation Room meeting the next day.Credit...Doug Mills/The New York Times
At that point, Mr. Rubio cut in. “In other words, it’s [censored],” he said.

Mr. Ratcliffe added that given the unpredictability of events in any conflict, regime change could happen, but it should not be considered an achievable objective.
Several others jumped in, including Mr. Vance, just back from Azerbaijan, who also expressed strong skepticism about the prospect of regime change.

The president then turned to General Caine. “General, what do you think?”

General Caine replied: “Sir, this is, in my experience, standard operating procedure for the Israelis. They oversell, and their plans are not always well-developed. They know they need us, and that’s why they’re hard-selling.”

Mr. Trump quickly weighed the assessment. Regime change, he said, would be “their problem.” It was unclear whether he was referring to the Israelis or the Iranian people. But the bottom line was that his decision on whether to go to war against Iran would not hinge on whether Parts 3 and 4 of Mr. Netanyahu’s presentation were achievable.

Mr. Trump appeared to remain very interested in accomplishing Parts 1 and 2: killing the ayatollah and Iran’s top leaders and dismantling the Iranian military.

General Caine — the man Mr. Trump liked to refer to as “Razin’ Caine” — had impressed the president years earlier by telling him the Islamic State could be defeated far more quickly than others had projected. Mr. Trump rewarded that confidence by elevating the general, who had been an Air Force fighter pilot, to be his top military adviser. General Caine was not a political loyalist, and he had serious concerns about a war with Iran. But he was very cautious in the way he presented his views to the president.
As the small team of advisers who were looped into the plans deliberated over the following days, General Caine shared with Mr. Trump and others the alarming military assessment that a major campaign against Iran would drastically deplete stockpiles of American weaponry, including missile interceptors, whose supply had been strained after years of support for Ukraine and Israel. General Caine saw no clear path to quickly replenishing these stockpiles.

He also flagged the enormous difficulty of securing the Strait of Hormuz and the risks of Iran blocking it. Mr. Trump had dismissed that possibility on the assumption that the regime would capitulate before it came to that. The president appeared to think it would be a very quick war — an impression that had been reinforced by the tepid response to the U.S. bombing of Iran’s nuclear facilities in June.

General Caine’s role in the lead-up to the war captured a classic tension between military counsel and presidential decision-making. So persistent was the chairman in not taking a stand — repeating that it was not his role to tell the president what to do, but rather to present options along with potential risks and possible second- and third-order consequences — that he could appear to some of those listening to be arguing all sides of an issue simultaneously.

He would constantly ask, “And then what?” But Mr. Trump would often seem to hear only what he wanted to hear.
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Gen. Dan Caine, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, departing a press briefing at the Pentagon last week.Credit...Eric Lee for The New York Times
General Caine differed in almost every way from a prior chairman, Gen. Mark A. Milley, who had argued vociferously with Mr. Trump during his first administration and who saw his role as stopping the president from taking dangerous or reckless actions.
One person familiar with their interactions noted that Mr. Trump had a habit of confusing tactical advice from General Caine with strategic counsel. In practice, that meant the general might warn in one breath about the difficulties of one aspect of the operation, then in the next note that the United States had an essentially unlimited supply of cheap, precision-guided bombs and could strike Iran for weeks once it achieved air superiority.

To the chairman, these were separate observations. But Mr. Trump appeared to think that the second most likely canceled out the first.

At no point during the deliberations did the chairman directly tell the president that war with Iran was a terrible idea — though some of General Caine’s colleagues believed that was exactly what he thought.

Trump the Hawk

Distrusted as Mr. Netanyahu was by many of the president’s advisers, the prime minister’s view of the situation was far closer to Mr. Trump’s opinion than the anti-interventionists on the Trump team or in the broader “America First” movement liked to admit. This had been true for many years.
Of all the foreign policy challenges Mr. Trump had confronted across two presidencies, Iran stood apart. He regarded it as a uniquely dangerous adversary and was willing to take great risks to hinder the regime’s ability to wage war or to acquire a nuclear weapon. Furthermore, Mr. Netanyahu’s pitch had dovetailed with Mr. Trump’s desire to dismantle the Iranian theocracy, which had seized power in 1979, when Mr. Trump was 32. It had been a thorn in the side of the United States ever since.

Now, he could become the first president since the clerical leadership took over 47 years ago to pull off regime change in Iran. Usually unmentioned but always in the background was the added motivation that Iran had plotted to kill Mr. Trump as revenge over the assassination in January 2020 of Gen. Qassim Suleimani, who was seen in the United States as a driving force behind an Iranian campaign of international terrorism.
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A billboard in Tehran showing Iranian military personnel with captured U.S. aircraft and a message about the Strait of Hormuz.Credit...Arash Khamooshi for The New York Times
Back in office for a second term, Mr. Trump’s confidence in the U.S. military’s abilities had only grown. He was especially emboldened by the spectacular commando raid to capture the Venezuelan leader Nicolás Maduro from his compound on Jan. 3. No American lives were lost in the operation, yet more evidence to the president of the unmatched prowess of U.S. forces.

Within the cabinet, Mr. Hegseth was the biggest proponent of a military campaign against Iran.

Mr. Rubio indicated to colleagues that he was much more ambivalent. He did not believe the Iranians would agree to a negotiated deal, but his preference was to continue a campaign of maximum pressure rather than start a full-scale war. Mr. Rubio, however, did not try to talk Mr. Trump out of the operation, and after the war began he delivered the administration’s justification with full conviction.
Ms. Wiles had concerns about what a new conflict overseas could entail, but she did not tend to weigh in hard on military matters in larger meetings; rather, she encouraged advisers to share their views and concerns with the president in those settings. Ms. Wiles would exert influence on many other issues, but in the room with Mr. Trump and the generals, she sat back. Those close to her said she did not view it as her role to share her concerns with the president on a military decision in front of others. And she believed that the expertise of advisers like General Caine, Mr. Ratcliffe and Mr. Rubio was more significant for the president to hear.
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Susie Wiles, the White House chief of staff, in the East Room last month. Those close to her said she did not view it as her role to share her concerns with the president on a military decision in front of others.Credit...Doug Mills/The New York Times
Still, Ms. Wiles had told colleagues that she worried about the United States being dragged into another war in the Middle East. An attack on Iran carried with it the potential to set off soaring gas prices months before midterm elections that could help decide whether the final two years of Mr. Trump’s second term would be years of accomplishment or subpoenas from House Democrats. But in the end, Ms. Wiles was on board with the operation.

Vance the Skeptic

Nobody in Mr. Trump’s inner circle was more worried about the prospect of war with Iran, or did more to try to stop it, than the vice president.

Mr. Vance had built his political career opposing precisely the kind of military adventurism that was now under serious consideration. He had described a war with Iran as “a huge distraction of resources” and “massively expensive.”
He was not, however, a dove across the board. In January, when Mr. Trump publicly warned Iran to stop killing protesters and promised that help was on its way, Mr. Vance had privately encouraged the president to enforce his red line. But what the vice president pushed for was a limited, punitive strike, something closer to the model of Mr. Trump’s missile attack against Syria in 2017 over the use of chemical weapons against civilians.

The vice president thought a regime-change war with Iran would be a disaster. His preference was for no strikes at all. But knowing that Mr. Trump was likely to intervene in some fashion, he tried to steer toward more limited action. Later, when it seemed certain that the president was set on a large-scale campaign, Mr. Vance argued that he should do so with overwhelming force, in the hope of achieving his objectives quickly.
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Vice President JD Vance, the figure inside the White House most opposed to a full-scale war, described it as “a huge distraction of resources” and “massively expensive.”Credit...Doug Mills/The New York Times
In front of his colleagues, Mr. Vance warned Mr. Trump that a war against Iran could cause regional chaos and untold numbers of casualties. It could also break apart Mr. Trump’s political coalition and would be seen as a betrayal by many voters who had bought into the promise of no new wars.

Mr. Vance raised other concerns, too. As vice president, he was aware of the scope of America’s munitions problem. A war against a regime with enormous will for survival could leave the United States in a far worse position to fight conflicts for some years.
The vice president told associates that no amount of military insight could truly gauge what Iran would do in retaliation when survival of the regime was at stake. A war could easily go in unpredictable directions. Moreover, he thought there seemed to be little chance of building a peaceful Iran in the aftermath.

Beyond all of this was perhaps the biggest risk of all: Iran held the advantage when it came to the Strait of Hormuz. If this narrow waterway carrying vast quantities of oil and natural gas was choked off, the domestic consequences in the United States would be severe, starting with higher gasoline prices.

Tucker Carlson, the commentator who had emerged as another prominent skeptic of intervention on the right, had come to the Oval Office several times over the previous year to warn Mr. Trump that a war with Iran would destroy his presidency. A couple weeks before the war began, Mr. Trump, who had known Mr. Carlson for years, tried to reassure him over the phone. “I know you’re worried about it, but it’s going to be OK,” the president said. Mr. Carlson asked how he knew. “Because it always is,” Mr. Trump replied.

In the final days of February, the Americans and the Israelis discussed a piece of new intelligence that would significantly accelerate their timeline. The ayatollah would be meeting above ground with other top officials of the regime, in broad daylight and wide open for an air attack. It was a fleeting chance to strike at the heart of Iran’s leadership, the kind of target that might not present itself again.

Mr. Trump gave Iran another chance to come to a deal that would block its path to nuclear weapons. The diplomacy also gave the United States extra time to move military assets to the Middle East.
The president had effectively made up his mind weeks earlier, several of his advisers said. But he had not yet decided exactly when. Now, Mr. Netanyahu urged him to move fast.

That same week, Mr. Kushner and Mr. Witkoff called from Geneva after the latest talks with Iranian officials. Over three rounds of negotiations in Oman and Switzerland, the two had tested Iran’s willingness to make a deal. At one point, they offered the Iranians free nuclear fuel for the life of their program — a test of whether Tehran’s insistence on enrichment was truly about civilian energy or about preserving the ability to build a bomb.

The Iranians rejected the offer, calling it an assault on their dignity.

Mr. Kushner and Mr. Witkoff laid out the picture for the president. They could probably negotiate something, but it would take months, they said. If Mr. Trump was asking whether they could look him in the eye and tell him they could solve the problem, it was going to take a lot to get there, Mr. Kushner told him, because the Iranians were playing games.

‘I Think We Need to Do It’

On Thursday, Feb. 26, around 5 p.m., a final Situation Room meeting got underway. By now, the positions of everyone in the room were clear. Everything had been discussed in previous meetings; everyone knew everyone else’s stance. The discussion would last about an hour and a half.

Mr. Trump was in his usual place at the head of the table. To his right sat the vice president; next to Mr. Vance was Ms. Wiles, then Mr. Ratcliffe, then the White House counsel, David Warrington, then Steven Cheung, the White House communications director. Across from Mr. Cheung was Karoline Leavitt, the White House press secretary; to her right was General Caine, then Mr. Hegseth and Mr. Rubio.
The war-planning group had been kept so tight that the two key officials who would need to manage the largest supply disruption in the history of the global oil market, Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent and Energy Secretary Chris Wright, were excluded, as was Tulsi Gabbard, the director of national intelligence.

The president opened the meeting, asking, OK, what have we got?


Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth was the biggest proponent of a military campaign against Iran within the cabinet. Secretary of State Marco Rubio indicated to colleagues that he was much more ambivalent.Credit...Photographs by Eric Lee for The New York Times
Mr. Hegseth and Mr. Caine ran through the sequencing of the attacks. Then Mr. Trump said he wanted to go around the table and hear everyone’s views.

Mr. Vance, whose disagreement with the whole premise was well established, addressed the president: You know I think this is a bad idea, but if you want to do it, I’ll support you.

Ms. Wiles told Mr. Trump that if he felt he needed to proceed for America’s national security, then he should go ahead.
Mr. Ratcliffe offered no opinion on whether to proceed, but he discussed the stunning new intelligence that the Iranian leadership was about to gather in the ayatollah’s compound in Tehran. The C.I.A. director told the president that regime change was possible depending on how the term was defined. “If we just mean killing the supreme leader, we can probably do that,” he said.

When called on, Mr. Warrington, the White House counsel, said it was a legally permissible option in terms of how the plan had been conceived by U.S. officials and presented to the president. He did not offer a personal opinion, but when pressed by the president to provide one, he said that as a Marine veteran he had known an American service member killed by Iran years earlier. This issue remained deeply personal. He told the president that if Israel intended to proceed regardless, the United States should do so as well.

Mr. Cheung laid out the likely public relations fallout: Mr. Trump had run for office opposed to further wars. People had not voted for conflict overseas. The plans ran contrary, too, to everything the administration had said after the bombing campaign against Iran in June. How would they explain away eight months of insisting that Iranian nuclear facilities had been totally obliterated? Mr. Cheung gave neither a yes nor a no, but he said that whatever decision Mr. Trump made would be the right one.

Ms. Leavitt told the president that this was his decision and that the press team would manage it as best they could.

Mr. Hegseth adopted a narrow position: They would have to take care of the Iranians eventually, so they might as well do it now. He offered technical assessments: They could run the campaign in a certain amount of time with a given level of forces.
General Caine was sober, laying out the risks and what the campaign would mean for munitions depletion. He offered no opinion; his position was that if Mr. Trump ordered the operation, the military would execute. Both of the president’s top military leaders previewed how the campaign would unfold and the U.S. capacity to degrade Iran’s military capabilities.

When it was his turn to speak, Mr. Rubio offered more clarity, telling the president: If our goal is regime change or an uprising, we shouldn’t do it. But if the goal is to destroy Iran’s missile program, that’s a goal we can achieve.

Everyone deferred to the president’s instincts. They had seen him make bold decisions, take on unfathomable risks and somehow come out on top. No one would impede him now.

“I think we need to do it,” the president told the room. He said they had to make sure Iran could not have a nuclear weapon, and they had to ensure that Iran could not just shoot missiles at Israel or throughout the region.

General Caine told Mr. Trump that he had some time; he did not need to give the go-ahead until 4 p.m. the following day.
Aboard Air Force One the next afternoon, 22 minutes before General Caine’s deadline, Mr. Trump sent the following order: “Operation Epic Fury is approved. No aborts. Good luck.”
Jonathan Swan is a White House reporter for The Times, covering the administration of Donald J. Trump. Contact him securely on Signal: @jonathan.941

Maggie Haberman is a White House correspondent for The Times, reporting on President Trump.
https://www.nytimes.com/2026/04/07/us/politics/trump-iran-war.html

Ballpeen #2135920 04/09/26 01:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Ballpeen
The problem as I see it, or at least wonder is do the leaders in Iran have control over the military? My feeling is there at least some elements of the Iranian military who are rogue from whoever says they are leading Iran. The military might have the power over some 4th string diplomat.

If you have to ask this as a question, that is fine. But you need to keep asking questions rather than making statements. The enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, but rather the illusion of knowledge.

You said everything is going our way in this war earlier. Let me ask, what exactly is going our way? I came on the briefly read the responses to this because it affects my day to day and I wanted to read perceptions.

So, please, enlighten all of us as to what we have achieved. So far, we have spent a ton of materiel and money, and now the Iranians have taken control of the strait, and are charging tolls. Khamenei was replaced by a younger, more aggressive Khamenei, they have handed over no uranium, we keep blowing past our deadlines, we are asking for a $200B increase, which includes weapons systems we have not had casualties on in years in warfare (MQ-9, KC-46, etc). Gas prices are ridiculous. The president tweets out Praise be to Allah on Easter and talks about annihilating a civilization…before blowing through yet another deadline to entertain a ten point peace plan that puts us in a significantly worse place than the previous nuclear deal put us. So yes, please tell us how everything is going our way.

Oh, and also please tell us how we’re going to pay for this. Tell us what financial benefit we’re gaining from all this. Let me guess, it’s more of the Boomer philosophy of “Don’t worry about it now, we’ll be dead and the younger generations can take care of the debt.” Yep…that’s conservative (smh). No, but honestly, how are you going to pay for this, because my generation already had to front two forever wars that were never paid for because y’all didn’t want to increase taxes…oh and it was our generation that had to constitute the main fighting force of both of those wars.

I mean, just ask Swish …oh wait, that’s right. He hasn’t posted here like I haven’t because we got sick of all the nonsense, ignorance and hypocrisy.

But yes…this has been well worth it. Just ask Nick Fuentes, MGT, Alex Jones, Tucker Carlson, and a host of other people who held Trump’s water…oh damn…wait, they’re upset that he not only failed a campaign promise, but literally went in the opposite direction of one.

Ain’t nothing new…keep making the messes. We’ll have to clean it up eventually…

Trash me. Lambast me. Do whatever you want. IDGAF. The tides are changing. As you all keep sun setting, the rest of us will have to deal with the realities of where you all have taken us.


Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown

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Hell of a read. It certainly sounds credible and factual - no way to verify. But based on what I know of the players it seems more that probable. The surprising thing is to hear Vance was the only adult in the room. So ... maybe the Rubio comment after the start of the military action was half right. Israel was going to do it, that wasn't the only reason Trump went ahead and joined the offensive. But - it was the Israel administration / Netanyahu pushing the narrative and pushing Trump's buttons to get to that decision. No great surprise if anyone has watched any of the endless clips of Netanyahu over the last 30 years endlessly and falsely claiming Iran was weeks or months away from nuclear capability.

Bad decisions and lack of diverse opinions is what happens when you surround yourself with sycophants. And no surprise at all Hegseth who thinks he's He-man was chief cheerleader within the US, he is such an embarrassment.


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Good to see you post again Dawglover - I was thinking of you the other day when I posted about the 44% increase in the Defense budget (or is that now the War Budget?). Seems more than a little ironic - we had Doge come in and decimate your department and impact your working life. The upshot is all the numbers Doge used and claimed were false. I read somewhere that no money was actually saved by Doge because any allocated funds that were not spent on the originally allocated areas - was returned to the coffers of the overseeing department and the monies were spent anyway, just somewhere else .... but that aside .... We know we have an inefficient and wasteful defense spending "system". You've talked about that before. I was wondering if you could spend some money on making the system more efficient - how much would you need to spend? What sort of efficiencies would you see? ..... I guess it's like having an old boiler that is wildly inefficient. If you spend the money to replace the boiler and see a *plucks a number out of the air* 18.5% increase in efficiency .... better to do that than just throw money at your old boiler asking it to heat a the new extension you have planned.

Anyway - keep posting when you can!


The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
mgh888 #2135925 04/09/26 05:46 AM
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Thanks, but I already regret it. I came back on to delete the post, but it was too late. I used to come on here in attempts to have decent back and forth conversations, but I vowed to leave after the Charlie Kirk thread last fall. The same people who used “curb stomp” metaphors and “keep it up” troll phrasing to imply that people like me were to blame for the current administration coming back into power also said I was “not serious” when I made attempts at offering an olive branch.

That made me realize it’s futile to post stuff here…or really engage in any civic discussion at all. For those of us still trying to raise a family, the state of our country has gotten so bad. Even if we manage to kick the current admin to the curb, we’re still left with AIPAC Jr party who is not serious about improving our debt and many other problems smacking us in the face.

I came back on this board in a moment of my own weakness because of info I recently received that had me wondering about current public perception. In a moment of insomnia induced compulsion, I read through the Iran stuff. Like I said, I already regret it.

To answer your inquiries about DOGE, though, it was a complete smoke and mirrors escapade. To anyone that was not willfully blind, they did almost nothing but harm. Don’t take my word for it. Take their word for it. In their video depositions, they admit to not reducing the deficit. We lost a lot of good people. And now my workload is increasing. We’re about to get swamped too because the TINA threshold is about to increase to $10M this summer. Think we were getting gouged before? Just wait… but that’s what happens when you have people who control defense index funds also running the DoD and controlling its spending.

Anyhow, take care and Go Browns.


Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown

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Originally Posted by PitDAWG
According to Iran's Constitution, the Supreme Leader is responsible for the delineation and supervision of "the general policies of the Islamic Republic of Iran," which means that he sets the tone and direction of Iran's domestic and foreign policies. The Supreme Leader also is commander-in-chief of the armed forces and controls the Islamic Republic's intelligence and security operations; he alone can declare war or peace. He has the power to appoint and dismiss the leaders of the judiciary, the state radio and television networks, and the supreme commander of the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps. He also appoints six of the twelve members of the Council of Guardians, the powerful body that oversees the activities of Parliament and determines which candidates are qualified to run for public office.

The Supreme Leader's sphere of power is extended through his representatives, an estimated 2,000 of whom are sprinkled throughout all sectors of the government and who serve as the Leader's clerical field operatives. In some respects the Supreme Leader's representatives are more powerful than the president's ministers and have the authority to intervene in any matter of state on the Supreme Leader's behalf.

You bring up a lot of maybe's and could be's but there's nothing to indicate that's correct. All sources are indicating that these terms are being negotiated by the actual powers of Iran. Not some 4th string diplomat.

Here is the link you forgot to provide for the above information you posted. You have a habit of doing that. As to the actual thought you posted, my comment was a supposition as indicated by using the word wonder.


https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/tehran/inside/govt.html


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mac #2135927 04/09/26 07:26 AM
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Originally Posted by mac
Originally Posted by Ballpeen
The problem as I see it, or at least wonder is do the leaders in Iran have control over the military? My feeling is there at least some elements of the Iranian military who are rogue from whoever says they are leading Iran. The military might have the power over some 4th string diplomat.



Iran's military leaders have control over Iran's government.

Iran has a military dictatorship..!

Thats what I am wondering. At least in part. It's been reported we have knocked out several layers of Iran's religious leadership. It makes we wonder how deep in to the pool the " leadership" can dip before various generals start to feel they hold the power? As Pit noted, Iran has a constitution of sorts, but that might not be worth the paper it is written on once various layers of existing leadership has been eliminated. This might explain why the truce if off to a rocky start. It is also worth noting that in any truce, just because it is announced doesn't mean the word gets out down the line instantly. I am sure that Iran is experiencing at least some sort of communication delays. It goes back to stories of Japanese soldiers who were abandoned on some Philippine island post who never got word of the end of WWII and were still fighting the war in to the late 50's.

We'll see where it all leads.


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Damanshot #2135928 04/09/26 08:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Damanshot
Originally Posted by Ballpeen
Originally Posted by mgh888
I know that Hegseth and Trump like to think they are above any norms or international laws that govern conflict and war - but much like a country itself, a world without laws ... and more importantly a world where the countries that have signed up and agreed to those international laws do not obey them - then anarchy reigns.

If the US attacks and obliterates infrastructure, electric power plants etc - it is not a military objective. Those attacks would be classified as war crimes. All it does is hurt the people more. The ones that at one time Trump claimed to be going to help.

I am not in favor of knocking out utilities in mass. Maybe one here and there just to make the point. Just keep hammering away. Obviously, they have a few resources hidden away. Keep the eyes open and hammer them when they show up. They don't have many.

We need to get the other Nato countries involved in opening the strait. I do understand their reluctance; they are infested with radical Muslims in their countries. They have a big Muslim problem and are afraid they will rise up internally.

We need to get NATO involved,,, WHY THE HELL WOULD THEY HELP US? Tell me Peen,,, WHY?

We have an IDIOT in the white house that constantly berates them to no end. He places TARIFFS on them that they JUST laugh at because they know they are going to pass those tariffs on to the Americans that buy their products.

He's constantly threatening to take over Greenland. A country I might add that has said time and time again, that we have all the freedom we need to use them as a base of Military Operations... But this dumb moron can't figure out what that means.

If I'm a NATO nation, I tell Trump that he started this, you fix it.

As for Muslims, Most are peace loving folks... It's just the radical among them that are a problem as you said.... Much like the Republican Party in America. The MAGA wing is largely less smart... I know that because Trump himself said, Smart People Don't Like Him! so those that support him aren't all that smart.

Just to go back, we help in Ukraine. That is more a European problem. We helped in Chad, Croatia, the Faulklands, and those just come off the top of my head. There are probably others if I bothered to look it up. Even if those countries didn't want to help directly, I get it, they have major radical Muslim problem in their countries, there is no reason why they should deny us the ability to land at NATO bases or fly over their airspace.

I think there are 32 countries in NATO. Maybe we need to say we are going to pay our 1/32nd share of the cost to maintain our membership and start looking for other partners. What does Canada provide? Maybe we should say we will provide what Canada provides.

As for peaceful Muslims, no doubt many are peaceful, millions to be more on point, however that doesn't mitigate the millions who aren't. I don't think any of these conflicts are aimed at peaceful Muslims, only those who aren't.


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Ballpeen #2135929 04/09/26 08:08 AM
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There is every reason why they denied access for preemptive strikes from their bases.

If I am planning to do a bank robbery and you know that, and I ask you to use your garage to store my car before the event, do you let me?? Or does that make you an accessory to a crime?.

NATO countries clearly believe that according to international law, the strikes against Iran were illegal. They don't want to be part of or an accessory to actions that break international law. . period.

It's black and white and really simple.


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Well - I hear you and understand your frustration. Sad that you don't post here anymore because you're one of the more thoughtful posters. I could add more to support your observations of others but there is no need.

And yes - what you say about DOGE and being gouged makes sense and really exactly what I expected. The beat goes on....

Last edited by mgh888; 04/09/26 08:26 AM.

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mgh888 #2135932 04/09/26 10:09 AM
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Originally Posted by mgh888
There is every reason why they denied access for preemptive strikes from their bases.

If I am planning to do a bank robbery and you know that, and I ask you to use your garage to store my car before the event, do you let me?? Or does that make you an accessory to a crime?.

NATO countries clearly believe that according to international law, the strikes against Iran were illegal. They don't want to be part of or an accessory to actions that break international law. . period.

It's black and white and really simple.

We just disagree. It's that simple.


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Not going to lambast. OK, it is all our fault.

Seems the country is lost, so as you say, IDGAF. Have fun in the next generation of country. Hope it works out for you.


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Ballpeen #2135934 04/09/26 10:24 AM
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Australian spy plane operators in Middle East not sharing intel with US for offensive operations, defence boss says | US-Israel war on Iran | The Guardian https://share.google/ovLIWUxhY9TkMY3Cu

There's nothing to disagree about. It's absolutely the other NATO countries position that this is an illegal war and they will not aid and abet, an illegal war. You can try and disagree with facts if you like but you know, you do you. Maybe you can start calling all those NATO countries communists or something?

Last edited by mgh888; 04/09/26 10:31 AM.

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Ballpeen #2135935 04/09/26 10:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Ballpeen
Originally Posted by PitDAWG
According to Iran's Constitution, the Supreme Leader is responsible for the delineation and supervision of "the general policies of the Islamic Republic of Iran," which means that he sets the tone and direction of Iran's domestic and foreign policies. The Supreme Leader also is commander-in-chief of the armed forces and controls the Islamic Republic's intelligence and security operations; he alone can declare war or peace. He has the power to appoint and dismiss the leaders of the judiciary, the state radio and television networks, and the supreme commander of the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps. He also appoints six of the twelve members of the Council of Guardians, the powerful body that oversees the activities of Parliament and determines which candidates are qualified to run for public office.

The Supreme Leader's sphere of power is extended through his representatives, an estimated 2,000 of whom are sprinkled throughout all sectors of the government and who serve as the Leader's clerical field operatives. In some respects the Supreme Leader's representatives are more powerful than the president's ministers and have the authority to intervene in any matter of state on the Supreme Leader's behalf.

You bring up a lot of maybe's and could be's but there's nothing to indicate that's correct. All sources are indicating that these terms are being negotiated by the actual powers of Iran. Not some 4th string diplomat.

Here is the link you forgot to provide for the above information you posted. You have a habit of doing that. As to the actual thought you posted, my comment was a supposition as indicated by using the word wonder.


https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/tehran/inside/govt.html

Did it or did it not answer your question? It explains exactly how their government structure works. Maybe if you did that much homework trying to find the answers to your own questions as you did looking up my sources I wouldn't have to provide the answers for you. But yeah, that's my fault. rolleyes

You're welcome BTW


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

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Ballpeen #2135936 04/09/26 10:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Ballpeen
Not going to lambast. OK, it is all our fault.

Seems the country is lost, so as you say, IDGAF. Have fun in the next generation of country. Hope it works out for you.

That seems par for the course. Our generation has left future generations with a filthy planet and debt that goes beyond repayment and you DGAF.

At least I railed against those things because I did and do GAF. Let me guess, you still don't GAF. Nothing about that surprises me.


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

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Ballpeen #2135937 04/09/26 10:53 AM
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Here is a helpful hint Peen.

Russia attacked Ukraine. Ukraine didn't attack Russia. Those things are opposites. Did that help?

You sound exactly like the U.S. did before we were forced to enter WW2. We sat back and did nothing until eventually we were attacked. By then Hitler was nearly impossible to stop.

When you attack a nation that's an offensive move. When yo have to defend yourself from an attack that's a defensive move. NATO is for defensive purposes. If you want to build an alliance you do that before you attack. Not wait until you create a mess and then tell them, "I broke it now you fix it."


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Army survivors of deadly attack in Kuwait dispute Pentagon's account, say unit "was unprepared" to defend itself

Survivors of the deadliest Iranian attack on U.S. forces since the war began have disputed the Pentagon's description of events and said their unit in Kuwait was left dangerously exposed when six service members were killed and more than 20 wounded.

Speaking publicly for the first time, members of the targeted unit offered CBS News a detailed account of the attack and its harrowing aftermath from the perspective of those on the ground.

The members CBS News spoke to disputed the description of events from Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth, who described the drone as a "squirter" — in that it squirted through the defenses of a fortified unit inside Kuwait.

"Painting a picture that 'one squeaked through' is a falsehood," one of the injured soldiers told CBS News. "I want people to know the unit … was unprepared to provide any defense for itself. It was not a fortified position."

That service member, who like others spoke on the condition of anonymity because of rigid media restrictions within the military, said that in spite of the carnage that ensued, those inside the charred and splintered compound responded with swiftness, ingenuity and valor that saved lives.

"I don't think that the security environment or any leadership decision diminishes in any way their sacrifice or their service," the member of the Army's 103rd Sustainment Command said in an interview. "Those soldiers put themselves in harm's way and … I'm immensely proud of them, and their family should be proud of them."

These first eyewitness accounts, along with photos and videos of the attack's aftermath obtained exclusively by CBS News, offer the first descriptions of what occurred March 1 at the thinly fortified Kuwaiti port facility on the day of the Iranian drone strike.

In the hours before the attack, incoming missile alarms had signaled to a crew of about 60 troops to take cover in a cement bunker while a ballistic missile flew overhead. But around 9:15 a.m., an all-clear alert sounded. Officers removed their helmets and returned to their desks in the wood and tin workspace, about the width of three trailers.

From there they resumed managing the movement of equipment, munitions and personnel across the Middle East.

About 30 minutes later, "everything shook," one soldier told CBS News. "And it's something like what you see in the movies. Your ears are ringing. Everything's fuzzy. Your vision is blurry. You're dizzy. There's dust and smoke everywhere."

Dazed, the service member surveyed a grisly scene: "Head wounds, heavy bleeding, lots of perforated eardrums, and then just shrapnel all over, so folks are bleeding from their abdomen, bleeding from arms, bleeding from legs."

A video shows smoke billowing from the building, fires smoldering. The blast killed six — the deadliest attack on U.S. troops since 2021 — and injured more than 20 others.

It was a direct hit.

"Get off the X"

About one week before the launch of Operation Epic Fury, most American soldiers and airmen stationed in Kuwait were relocated to positions in Jordan and Saudi Arabia and further away from Iranian missile range. Some soldiers said leadership advised them they wouldn't be gone long — to pack for 30 days and leave behind most personal equipment, including their military-issued computers. The goal: don't be a target.

"The way it was described was 'Get off the X,'" meaning away from the danger zone, one soldier who just returned from deployment explained.

But for several dozen members of the Army's 103rd Sustainment Command at a major U.S. base south of Kuwait City, there were a different set of orders: pack up everything and relocate to Port of Shuaiba, a smaller military outpost off Kuwait's southern coast.

The tactical operation center was similar to structures commonplace during the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan — before the rise of drone warfare. Steel-reinforced concrete barriers known as T-walls surrounded the building. These types of barriers are designed to shield service members from the blast of a mortar or rocket but offer no protection from aerial attacks.

"It's just kind of a classic, older military base," one soldier recalled. "Some small barriers. There's a bunch of little tin buildings where we can set up makeshift offices."

From there, a logistics staff would manage the operational and informational flow of munitions, equipment and personnel across the Middle East theater. Still, the soldiers told CBS News, they had questions about why they remained well within range of Iran's missiles and drones. One soldier said they saw intelligence showing the post was on a list of potential Iranian targets.

"We moved closer to Iran, to a deeply unsafe area that was a known target," the soldier said. "I don't think there was a good reason ever articulated."

He said they were protected by little more than a thin layer of vertical standing blast barricades that did not provide cover from above.

"From a bunker standpoint, that's about as weak as one gets," he said.

Asked to describe the degree of fortification, he responded: "I mean, I would put it in the none category. From a drone defense capability … none."

A Pentagon spokesperson declined to comment on the soldiers' claims, citing an active investigation into the Port of Shuaiba attack.

In a post on X addressing prior CBS News reporting on the incident, Assistant Secretary of Defense Sean Parnell said "every possible measure has been taken to safeguard our troops — at every level" and that "[t]he secure facility was fortified with 6-foot walls."

"It was chaos"

As the war got underway, it became clear that Iran would be moving away from a conventional defense and leaning more heavily on cheap and plentiful drones — an arsenal that has changed the battle calculus in places like Ukraine.

It was one of those Iranian Shahed drones that detonated directly at the center of the U.S. soldiers' worksite.

"It was chaos," another injured soldier described. "There was no single line of patients to triage. You're on one side of the fire or you're on the other side of the fire."

The soldiers, according to witnesses, triaged themselves with makeshift bandages, braces and tourniquets. They commandeered civilian vehicles to drive the wounded to two local Kuwaiti hospitals in the Kuwait City suburb of Fahaheel.

"One of the hardest things for me is that I know we didn't get everybody out, so I know that at this point there are still soldiers inside there that still haven't been identified and evacuated," one survivor said of the tense moments en route to the hospital before other teams extracted the remaining fallen.

"Telling the truth is important"

Word of Hegseth's description of the events at a press conference in Washington did not sit well with some of the survivors. The secretary had described the drone as a "squirter" that "happened to hit a tactical operations center that was fortified, but these are powerful weapons."

And while several of those familiar with the events on the ground did not agree with the description, they did not want their remarks to be misconstrued.

"It's not my intent to diminish morale or to disparage the Army or the Department of War more holistically, but I do think that telling the truth is important and we're not going to learn from these mistakes if we pretend these mistakes didn't happen," one soldier said.

Asked if the attack was an inherent reality of engaging in combat, he agreed.

"That's true," he said.

Asked if this attack was preventable, the soldier added: "In my opinion, absolutely, yes."

"I am very sad for their loss and it's something I'll carry with me for the rest of my life," he said. "But I'm also immensely proud of them and their sacrifice, and their family should be too."

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/iran-war-kuwait-drone-attack-survivors-us-army/


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Supposedly, there is no plan that was printed out and agreed to/signed by the parties.

A little explanation about the different plans. Somebody/everybody is lying their asses off.
And the fighting continues today with only a few ships getting through

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2026/4/9/has-irans-10-point-plan-changed-as-jd-vance-claims

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