He seems like the perfect type of QB to run in the Wildcat formation. He is nowhere close to what you would want as a starting NFL QB at this point in time and his int. total should tell people that.
But as of now he would be prefect in the Wildcat. How much he improves from there moving forward is anyone's guess.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
BACKGROUND Taylen Green, the middle child of three in his family, was born and raised in the Dallas-Fort Worth Metroplex by his parents (Quinton and Latrice). Quinton played basketball at Collin College (north of Dallas). Taylen’s older sister (Nyah) was a McDonald’s All-American basketball player in high school and one of the top recruits in the country (she started receiving scholarship offers in sixth grade). After signing with Louisville (2019-20), Nyah transferred to Duke (2021-22).
While growing up in a basketball family, Taylen Green developed his competitiveness by going against his sister (who is 20 months older) on the court. After eighth grade, Green gave up basketball to focus on his football career. Green and his fiancée (Analisse Batista), who runs track for the Razorbacks, were engaged in June 2025.
Green started his prep career at Allen High School, a powerhouse program that’s produced quarterback Kyler Murray and dozens of other NFL players. He started to get attention as a recruit before high school and was invited to Regional Elite 11 as a 150-pound freshman. However, Green found himself blocked on Allen’s depth chart for two years, and he transferred to Lewisville High School prior to his junior year. He became the starting quarterback on varsity and helped lead Lewisville to a 7-4 record, including a close loss to bitter rival Marcus High (led by quarterback Garrett Nussmeier). Green finished his junior season with 2,217 passing yards, 445 rushing yards and 37 total touchdowns (25 passing, 12 rushing). As a senior captain, he led Lewisville back to the 6A state playoffs and finished with 2,431 passing yards, 653 rushing yards and 29 total touchdowns (22 passing, nine rushing). He shared a backfield at Lewisville with running back Damien Martinez, a 2025 NFL Draft pick of the Seattle Seahawks. Green also lettered in track (jumps and relays). He set a school record in the long jump (23 feet 5 inches) and had personal bests of 44-3.5 in the triple jump and 55.02 seconds in the 400-meter dash.
A three-star recruit, Green was the 79th-ranked quarterback in the 2021 class and the No. 185 recruit in Texas. Before he’d even become a varsity starter, he received his first FCS scholarship offer (Illinois State). His recruitment picked up after he transferred to Lewisville and earned a starting job, as he received offers from FBS schools including San Diego State, Rice, UTEP, New Mexico State and Central Michigan. The summer before his senior year, Green had a final three of Boise State, San Diego State and Wyoming, and he committed to the Broncos in July 2020. He was the third-ranked recruit in former head coach Andy Avalos’ first recruiting class at Boise State. After redshirting in 2021, Green led Boise State to the 2022 Mountain West championship game and was named the conference’s Freshman of the Year. However, his 2023 season was inconsistent, and he lost some playing time to Maddux Madsen. Despite having a strong finish to his sophomore season, Green was looking for a change of scenery and entered the transfer portal in December 2023. He considered Baylor, LSU, Miami, Michigan State and others before committing to Arkansas, a program he had visited (but from which he didn’t receive an offer) during the high school recruiting process.
Green accepted an invitation to the Senior Bowl.
STRENGTHS ● Tall, with a muscular upper body; freely carries his 225 pounds ● True dual-threat, because of his mobility and tight spiral ● Dangerous on QB draws/options, with high success rate as a scrambler on money downs ● Routinely created explosives on the ground (73 carries of 10-plus yards over past two seasons) ● Big body leaves would-be tacklers falling off him in the pocket and in space ● Slides inside and outside of pocket to buy time and throw on the move ● Can make every throw with velocity ● Aggressive passer who will challenge safeties when given the chance ● Voted a team captain in 2025 and carries himself the right way (NFL scout: “Always laughing and really sharp. … [He] wants to motivate you.”) ● Durable and tough — refuses to come off the field ● First player in school history with 300 yards passing and 100 yards rushing in a single game
WEAKNESSES ● Long body type, with thin lower half ● Funky, long delivery (too many batted passes for a player his size) ● Late getting to backside dig — needs to eliminate things more quickly in his reads ● Doesn’t throw with a ton of anticipation; late to locate lurkers ● Inconsistent mechanics and weight transfer go hand-in-hand with streaky ball placement ● Too willing to throw into traffic and needs to take better care of the football ● Didn’t show much improvement with pocket presence between junior and senior tape ● More likely to work backward or roll out than climb in pocket
SUMMARY A two-year starter at Arkansas (and four-year starter overall), Green was a dual-threat quarterback in former offensive coordinator Bobby Petrino’s balanced, spread scheme. After three years at Boise State, he blossomed in Fayetteville and in 2025 ranked No. 3 in the SEC in total yards per game (290.9). He has been one of the most productive quarterbacks in college football — over the past two seasons, he ranked No. 1 in the FBS in plays of 10-plus yards (315) and 20-plus yards (109).
One of the most physically gifted players in the 2026 draft class (at any position), Green is big, athletic and competes with NFL-required toughness. He is a playmaker outside the pocket (with both his arm and legs), and his highlight package is full of “wow” moments. However, he is inconsistent working through his reads, and you hold your breath every time he throws over the middle. He takes too many unnecessary chances — he committed a combined 37 turnovers the past two seasons (20 interceptions, 17 fumbles). Overall, Green needs to take better care of the football and refine his mechanics and passing rhythm, but he offers the physical traits and high character worth molding in a read-option, vertical passing game.
I would look to see if the guy can catch the ball. He has Calvin Johnson type physical traits. From a Browns perspective, think Josh Gordon. Six foot five, 230 lbs, 4.35 speed.
He would need nearly as much development at the QB position as he would at WR....assuming he can catch. I would explore the possibilities of a position change.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.
If he worked himself into a Taysom Hill type role, that would be fine and dandy.
So what most of us have been saying, goal line/short yardage role.
He can do that as a backup QB, he doesn't have to change to a WR to do that.
Taysom Hill didn't even start to do receiver drills until his 3rd season in the NFL. They exhausted his usefulness as a QB, THEN started to utilize him in different ways. Let's give him a chance before burning his QB career. He hasn't even had a mini-camp yet.
This isn't directed at you oober, even though I quoted your post.. it is for all those calling for a position change before he gets fitted for a uniform with a QB number on it. I know you aren't doing that.
5,868 passing yards, 34 passing touchdowns, and 16 rushing touchdowns. In his final 2025 season at Arkansas, he passed for 2,714 yards and 19 touchdowns while rushing for 777 yards.
People are acting like this guy can't throw.
I don't get it.
What he needs to do is work on speeding up his overall mechanics.
Like any quarterback coming into the NFL he has a list of things to improve.
What is uncoachable and what he can do. Nobody else can.
I mean is this guy going to pass waivers to the practice squad? Not if he looks good at all.
Honestly, I don't see it in Shedeur. I'd rather just run the Lamar offense with this guy, run the ball at a record setting level, 15 passes a game. We have the defense for ball control offense.
I mentioned Taylen becoming a WR, but it was just a thought. I would rather see us develop him into a starting QB. His skills are off the chart. You could make some plays where he occasionally catches the ball and let him use his speed but then you might be risking injury. I'll be anxious to see what he can do.
I honestly think Green is the steal of the draft and by the time Sanders is wanting Legendary money Green will be ready to step in. Green is by far the most physically gifted QB from this draft and it's not even close. The problems with his throwing motion and footwork are completely fixable. A super high character young man who knows how to keep his mouth shut. Green is going to make Sanders sweat a LOT.
You can't fix stupid but you can destroy ignorance. When you destroy ignorance you remove the justifications for evil. If you want to destroy evil then educate our people. Hate is a tool of the stupid to deal with what they can't understand.
Any word on Green from OTA's? I already like what I have heard about him. What have we seen since he signed on? SS or Lamar 2.0? I can't see him making the PS, do you? I like the measurables reported. I really don't think we can survive much bad breaks with these four. Green seems full of promise, worth developing. I like his stats; that is enough for now.
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
Yes, that's why every NFL team passed on him 5 times and some six times. Because "Green is the steal of the draft".
Let me guess. Tom Brady and Josh Purdy? Yes, Berry landed as once in a generation find! Just remember, neither of them appeared to be "the most physically gifted QB from this draft."
Browns fans always seem to think this team is getting a Ferrari at VW Bug prices.
People were saying the same thing about Sanders at this point last season. It seems some have already turned the page and repeating the exact same process they found themselves in last year at this point.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
I honestly think Green is the steal of the draft and by the time Sanders is wanting Legendary money Green will be ready to step in. Green is by far the most physically gifted QB from this draft and it's not even close. The problems with his throwing motion and footwork are completely fixable. A super high character young man who knows how to keep his mouth shut. Green is going to make Sanders sweat a LOT.
Sanders doesn't sweat, that's his Legendary Essence leaking from his pores.
I don't know what to make of Green. How much of the "issues" at Arkansas were him and how much were the rest of the team is hard to separate. He lost his top 6 WRs before this last season. His most productive WR was (transfer) O'Mega Blake. With a name like that, I'd have heard of him if he was good sometime during the draft process as I was going pretty deep at WR. (He went undrafted, may have gotten rookie camp tryout offers.) The Arkansas defense was one of the worst in all of FBS last season.
I'm hopeful Green turns into something, but we'll see.
You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
I honestly think Green is the steal of the draft and by the time Sanders is wanting Legendary money Green will be ready to step in. Green is by far the most physically gifted QB from this draft and it's not even close. The problems with his throwing motion and footwork are completely fixable. A super high character young man who knows how to keep his mouth shut. Green is going to make Sanders sweat a LOT.
You might be able to fix them at best. The problem is a college coach has no incentive to try to develop a player for the NFL. You take what the player offers and go with that, so we will see.
IMO I would see if he can catch. If so, it will be easier to turn him in to a great player at the receiver position. It's easier to teach that than the QB position. I know a few on here have said he has said he will be a QB and nothing else. He has also said he is here to do whatever it take to help the team win.
I don't care what he has said. Now that he is being paid by an NFL team, I think he will seek to continue to be paid even if the team switches his position.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.
I honestly think Green is the steal of the draft and by the time Sanders is wanting Legendary money Green will be ready to step in. Green is by far the most physically gifted QB from this draft and it's not even close. The problems with his throwing motion and footwork are completely fixable. A super high character young man who knows how to keep his mouth shut. Green is going to make Sanders sweat a LOT.
You might be able to fix them at best. The problem is a college coach has no incentive to try to develop a player for the NFL. You take what the player offers and go with that, so we will see.
IMO I would see if he can catch. If so, it will be easier to turn him in to a great player at the receiver position. It's easier to teach that than the QB position. I know a few on here have said he has said he will be a QB and nothing else. He has also said he is here to do whatever it take to help the team win.
I don't care what he has said. Now that he is being paid by an NFL team, I think he will seek to continue to be paid even if the team switches his position.
I don't see the team switching him from a position we don't have good players at to a position that we (theoretically) do now.
Not only is the going to be coached by Monken parallel there to Lamar. There's also the coached by Petrino in college. People thought Lamar should change positions. I think Green is a better QB than some give credit. He might have had better stock if he had transferred to a better team, but I think he wanted to be coached by the guy that coached Lamar. I think having generally played on the less talented team on the field last year in some ways helped his development. He had to work on craft instead of just chucking it to wide open WRs that were out athleting opponents. His WRs were the ones getting out athleted. His top WR was a 4.66 40 "deep threat" guy.
He's not exactly the same as Lamar. He's much more linear, so we'll see how that translates.
I don't see him translating as a WR. His long legs aren't built for getting in and out of breaks or quickly stopping momentum. Maybe his body type would work as a deep threat in theory, but finding/tracking the ball late and over the shoulder bucket catches aren't really things that come naturally if you don't start early. Against the greatest athletes in the world probably isn't the time to try to develop a completely new skill.
You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
I honestly think Green is the steal of the draft and by the time Sanders is wanting Legendary money Green will be ready to step in. Green is by far the most physically gifted QB from this draft and it's not even close. The problems with his throwing motion and footwork are completely fixable. A super high character young man who knows how to keep his mouth shut. Green is going to make Sanders sweat a LOT.
You might be able to fix them at best. The problem is a college coach has no incentive to try to develop a player for the NFL. You take what the player offers and go with that, so we will see.
IMO I would see if he can catch. If so, it will be easier to turn him in to a great player at the receiver position. It's easier to teach that than the QB position. I know a few on here have said he has said he will be a QB and nothing else. He has also said he is here to do whatever it take to help the team win.
I don't care what he has said. Now that he is being paid by an NFL team, I think he will seek to continue to be paid even if the team switches his position.
I have some questions for you.
If a player can't be coached up and fix some issues within the position he has played his whole life, why do you think it would be so easy to turn him into something he isn't?
What makes teaching receiver easier than teaching QB?
How is it that an athlete in college that has been very successful at receiver, comes into the NFL and all of a sudden has very little success? Why are the top athletes at THAT position at the combine, not the top WRs in the NFL?
Being a top professional athlete has as much to do about their psyche as it does their physical and intelligence. What you are asking the team to do is blow up his psyche by telling him he isn't good enough, before he even gets the chance to see what he has. I just don't get it....
Monken and Berry made it clear he is not going to be a receiver or any other position.
They have a plan for him. They will work that plan.
Agree 100%. Let HIM show you what he is. Once he gets to this level, the exposure will let him know internally whether or not he believes if success is achievable. Give it a year, maybe two if the proper progress is made. This is a 6th round pick, he can develop a new position when/if he fails at this one, not because he has similar traits in shorts as one of the greatest to ever play WR.
We drafted Taylen in the 6th round. Very little investment with solid potential. Give him whatever time he needs to develop. He can be our 3rd stringer for the next 3-4 years if need be. With his physical attributes he's an intriguing prospect.
I honestly think Green is the steal of the draft and by the time Sanders is wanting Legendary money Green will be ready to step in. Green is by far the most physically gifted QB from this draft and it's not even close. The problems with his throwing motion and footwork are completely fixable. A super high character young man who knows how to keep his mouth shut. Green is going to make Sanders sweat a LOT.
The other thing on some of his draft reports were his eyes being in the wrong spot. Being able to execute within the offense is going to be what I'm watching closest when it comes to him. Mechanics can come with enough drilling, but being able to see/process what he needs to to make the right throw is going to be the main decider on where his career goes.
I don't think giving a 6th round QB 3-4 years to develop, unless he is making great progress, is in the cards. Potential simply isn't enough. Look at the current situation. There are three project QB's on the current roster. Are you suggesting that Sanders will end up being our #2 QB after they actually draft a potential franchise QB? Or that Green will supplant Sanders?
All three of the current QB's in house, other than Watson, are nothing more than shots in the dark. As it pertains to the future I think if they follow the NFL model, they will have a first round draft pick selected that will be the starter with a veteran backup to help with his development and insure the team not totally collapse if the starter is injured. The you have may have a Sanders/Green type as your third QB. So would that be Sanders or Green? It can't be both if either by that time.
History dictates all of the projects on the current roster are in very short windows.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
I don't think giving a 6th round QB 3-4 years to develop, unless he is making great progress, is in the cards. Potential simply isn't enough. Look at the current situation. There are three project QB's on the current roster. Are you suggesting that Sanders will end up being our #2 QB after they actually draft a potential franchise QB? Or that Green will supplant Sanders?
All three of the current QB's in house, other than Watson, are nothing more than shots in the dark. As it pertains to the future I think if they follow the NFL model, they will have a first round draft pick selected that will be the starter with a veteran backup to help with his development and insure the team not totally collapse if the starter is injured. The you have may have a Sanders/Green type as your third QB. So would that be Sanders or Green? It can't be both if either by that time.
History dictates all of the projects on the current roster are in very short windows.
The short answer is...Green would remain, Sanders will be gone.
THIS is Sanders opportunity to become the Browns QB. If this offense fails miserably enough that the Browns are able to get a first round QB in 2027, then the QB flips upside down. I think it is a very real possibility that Green would be the odd man standing come 2027.
1) Watson is gone after this season, so that is one down 2) Gabriel, I believe, is the odd man out right now. Monken mentioned yesterday that they have to add additional steps to every workout to accommodate the fact he is a lefty. I don't think he is a fan 3) Most importantly, If they invest a first round pick on a QB, it is because they believe he is the future of the franchise. Sanders will be replaced by a veteran to help him develop, just as you mentioned above.
None of these points change the fact that in today's NFL, teams are carrying (3) QBs because of the new rule with the emergency QB. Green is developmental, but in an emergency situation, I'm sure they could package enough plays to get them through one to two weeks until they find a veteran replacement if the other two are long term injuries. Green as a developmental player makes more sense than Sanders, if they spend a first round pick on a QB in 2027.
It's more a numbers game. Green is a quintessential development QB. Sanders was drafted as one, but because of situation, he is being judged RIGHT NOW, not in 3 years as a starter level. Fair or not, Sanders time for judgement is at hand. Monken didn't draft Sanders, he has no ties to him. Monken wasn't here when the trade for Watson happened, he has no ties to him. He is in the room when Green's name is written down. He has more invested time into Green at this point than any other QB on the roster.
No one cares if Green is stuck down in 3rd position developing, no one is going to question that, even ownership... However, Sanders time as a starter and now subsequent starter battle moves him into a different category. If he loses now, he loses his future with the Browns in my opinion. The veteran in 2026 is Watson... There will be another veteran in 2027, that isn't Sanders... unless he becomes a proven QB in 2026, then this is a moot point.
That's a very fanciful story but would be a very unusual story to come true given the history of the league. Few QB's which are such a late round pick are giver 3-4 years to develop.
I'm just looking at the logical outcome rather than the fanciful one.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
If Shedeur becomes our franchise QB great and I hope he does. However, if he doesn't and we have to draft a QB next year what I would do is this. Watson will be gone, trade Shedeur, because then he would become a distraction IMO, and sign a Vet. If whomever we draft isn't ready start the vet and have the rookie and Green at 2 and 3. Green at 3rd string isn't a bad option with a year under his belt. With his physical attributes Green is worth keeping around for a few years. JMO
I don't think giving a 6th round QB 3-4 years to develop, unless he is making great progress, is in the cards.
Progress or not, you KNOW he's going to start multiple games sometime this season.
If both watson and Sanders are injured at the same time I wouldn't bet against it. And the odds of it happening with the Browns seems higher than on most teams given the history of the Browns QB situation. And if that happens it may help quiet some of these unrealistic expectations.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
The other thing on some of his draft reports were his eyes being in the wrong spot. Being able to execute within the offense is going to be what I'm watching closest when it comes to him. Mechanics can come with enough drilling, but being able to see/process what he needs to to make the right throw is going to be the main decider on where his career goes.
I don't doubt some reports said it, but I'm not really sure that's what it is or perhaps they mean something different by it than what I generally take as the meaning of the phrase. I think some people see an open target and assume that's where he should be looking. The read/progression doesn't always work that way, though.
I would say he could definitely improve at looking off coverage and reading/interpreting underneath coverage, but I don't think looking in the wrong spot is necessarily the issue.
I agree processing is make or break at this level. On the plus side, his athleticism can provide a threat that can lead to "breakdowns" defensively which can somewhat make the processing easier. I.e, if someone comes up in run support for him, throwing into the void they leave is relatively simple from a cognitive load standpoint. The bigger the spaces, the less precise the calculations have to be. It looks like we have the weapons to create lots of stretch now. Whether the OL can hold up long enough to give the guy at QB time for things to stretch, we'll see.
I think how willing Monken is to use Green's legs, and really design the/an offense/package around his abilities, to try to dictate to defenses what they can do is a pretty big factor in how this works out. If they try to make him Peyton Manning, it's probably not going to work.
You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
I keep telling myself, don't communicate with him, he's never going to change, but I'm a glutton for punishment. Most things that come off your keyboard are only logical to one person, yet you argue them as if someone else actually agrees with you. That isn't logical, it's nonsensical.
Logically, if this team is going to invest in a 3rd string developmental QB, it's the one that the current coaching staff brought into the mix, not one that was from the previous regime. It's the true meaning of logical..
Fanciful is saying there is another QB that was undrafted, but invited by another team to their offseason program and somehow making it seem like a viable option to have him as your 3rd string emergency QB for the upcoming season.
Sometimes I wonder if you even know the meaning of some of the words you use... was it on toilet paper word of the day?
Go take a long look at the odds and stats then explain how that take isn't fanciful.
Fanciful describes ideas, appearances, or stories that are born from the imagination rather than reason or reality
Now you might argue the imagination part which may be somewhat debatable. But the stats and odds certainly dictate the rest of the definition of fanciful certainly applies.
I get it. People want what they hope for to become the reality and when they get faced by those who try to ground things in reality they somehow find that objectionable.
Look at the stats for QB's drafted in the 6th round rather than trying to create some made up scenario that isn't applicable here. I didn't create the history on the odds of success nor how long teams keep a sixth round QB draft pick on average.
I'm sorry that you feel some need to attack the messenger rather than debate the facts. If you're having trouble comprehending the vocabulary I'm using that's a you issue. None if it goes beyond the basics. Sorry you had trouble keeping up.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Go take a long look at the odds and stats then explain how that take isn't fanciful.
Fanciful describes ideas, appearances, or stories that are born from the imagination rather than reason or reality
Now you might argue the imagination part which may be somewhat debatable. But the stats and odds certainly dictate the rest of the definition of fanciful certainly applies.
I get it. People want what they hope for to become the reality and when they get faced by those who try to ground things in reality they somehow find that objectionable.
Look at the stats for QB's drafted in the 6th round rather than trying to create some made up scenario that isn't applicable here. I didn't create the history on the odds of success nor how long teams keep a sixth round QB draft pick on average.
I'm sorry that you feel some need to attack the messenger rather than debate the facts. If you're having trouble comprehending the vocabulary I'm using that's a you issue. None if it goes beyond the basics. Sorry you had trouble keeping up.
Thanks for the definition. Instead of arguing with you, we'll have to start complimenting you on how fanciful your posts are.
Stats tell you what happened in the past, they don't dictate the future. What are the odds of a 6'5", 236# QB with sub 4.4 speed, a crazy vert, and a big arm being given up on early when he'll be cheap for all of his 6th round contract and appears to have sub package utility with this exact surrounding team? I don't know a number, but anyone that thinks they do is using their imagination.
You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
I don't think giving a 6th round QB 3-4 years to develop, unless he is making great progress, is in the cards. Potential simply isn't enough. Look at the current situation. There are three project QB's on the current roster. Are you suggesting that Sanders will end up being our #2 QB after they actually draft a potential franchise QB? Or that Green will supplant Sanders?
All three of the current QB's in house, other than Watson, are nothing more than shots in the dark. As it pertains to the future I think if they follow the NFL model, they will have a first round draft pick selected that will be the starter with a veteran backup to help with his development and insure the team not totally collapse if the starter is injured. The you have may have a Sanders/Green type as your third QB. So would that be Sanders or Green? It can't be both if either by that time.
History dictates all of the projects on the current roster are in very short windows.
The short answer is...Green would remain, Sanders will be gone.
THIS is Sanders opportunity to become the Browns QB. If this offense fails miserably enough that the Browns are able to get a first round QB in 2027, then the QB flips upside down. I think it is a very real possibility that Green would be the odd man standing come 2027.
1) Watson is gone after this season, so that is one down 2) Gabriel, I believe, is the odd man out right now. Monken mentioned yesterday that they have to add additional steps to every workout to accommodate the fact he is a lefty. I don't think he is a fan 3) Most importantly, If they invest a first round pick on a QB, it is because they believe he is the future of the franchise. Sanders will be replaced by a veteran to help him develop, just as you mentioned above.
None of these points change the fact that in today's NFL, teams are carrying (3) QBs because of the new rule with the emergency QB. Green is developmental, but in an emergency situation, I'm sure they could package enough plays to get them through one to two weeks until they find a veteran replacement if the other two are long term injuries. Green as a developmental player makes more sense than Sanders, if they spend a first round pick on a QB in 2027.
It's more a numbers game. Green is a quintessential development QB. Sanders was drafted as one, but because of situation, he is being judged RIGHT NOW, not in 3 years as a starter level. Fair or not, Sanders time for judgement is at hand. Monken didn't draft Sanders, he has no ties to him. Monken wasn't here when the trade for Watson happened, he has no ties to him. He is in the room when Green's name is written down. He has more invested time into Green at this point than any other QB on the roster.
No one cares if Green is stuck down in 3rd position developing, no one is going to question that, even ownership... However, Sanders time as a starter and now subsequent starter battle moves him into a different category. If he loses now, he loses his future with the Browns in my opinion. The veteran in 2026 is Watson... There will be another veteran in 2027, that isn't Sanders... unless he becomes a proven QB in 2026, then this is a moot point.
Originally Posted by PitDAWG
That's a very fanciful story but would be a very unusual story to come true given the history of the league. Few QB's which are such a late round pick are giver 3-4 years to develop.
I'm just looking at the logical outcome rather than the fanciful one.
Originally Posted by PitDAWG
Go take a long look at the odds and stats then explain how that take isn't fanciful.
Fanciful describes ideas, appearances, or stories that are born from the imagination rather than reason or reality
Now you might argue the imagination part which may be somewhat debatable. But the stats and odds certainly dictate the rest of the definition of fanciful certainly applies.
I get it. People want what they hope for to become the reality and when they get faced by those who try to ground things in reality they somehow find that objectionable.
Look at the stats for QB's drafted in the 6th round rather than trying to create some made up scenario that isn't applicable here. I didn't create the history on the odds of success nor how long teams keep a sixth round QB draft pick on average.
I'm sorry that you feel some need to attack the messenger rather than debate the facts. If you're having trouble comprehending the vocabulary I'm using that's a you issue. None if it goes beyond the basics. Sorry you had trouble keeping up.
Sorry for all the quotes, but to put all your fanciful ideals in one place, then ask for the odds and stats...
I went back and looked at every 6th round draft pick for the last 20 years. That is 36 QBs drafted in the 6th round.
The AVERAGE life span of that 6th round developmental QB is 4.25 years. The AVERAGE time spent on their drafting team is 1.62 years.
Only ONE QB, Tajh Boyd, washed out in their first year in the NFL.
Only FOUR QBs have gone on to 10+ year careers; Nate Sudfield, Jeff Driskel, Tyrod Taylor and Bruce Gradkowski. There are currently 10 6th round QBs dating back to 2019 that are still active in the league. With one other, Trace McSorley on a 7 year stint that could end as he doesn't currently have a contract.
More recently, 3 out of 5 6th round QBs from 2025 class are still with their drafting teams going into 2026.
The "Stats and Odds" say that Green has a pretty good chance of being a developmental QB for 3-4 years, which is what your parameters were. Chances aren't great that he's a Brown in 3-4 years, but they are better than 50/50 that he is a Brown in 2027.
Given the scenario and "Odds and Stats", my statement was pretty accurate.
You keep being your fanciful self and we will keep proving why many of us disagree with a lot of what you say... Oh and do some research...
Go take a long look at the odds and stats then explain how that take isn't fanciful.
Fanciful describes ideas, appearances, or stories that are born from the imagination rather than reason or reality
Now you might argue the imagination part which may be somewhat debatable. But the stats and odds certainly dictate the rest of the definition of fanciful certainly applies.
I get it. People want what they hope for to become the reality and when they get faced by those who try to ground things in reality they somehow find that objectionable.
Look at the stats for QB's drafted in the 6th round rather than trying to create some made up scenario that isn't applicable here. I didn't create the history on the odds of success nor how long teams keep a sixth round QB draft pick on average.
I'm sorry that you feel some need to attack the messenger rather than debate the facts. If you're having trouble comprehending the vocabulary I'm using that's a you issue. None if it goes beyond the basics. Sorry you had trouble keeping up.
Thanks for the definition. Instead of arguing with you, we'll have to start complimenting you on how fanciful your posts are.
Stats tell you what happened in the past, they don't dictate the future. What are the odds of a 6'5", 236# QB with sub 4.4 speed, a crazy vert, and a big arm being given up on early when he'll be cheap for all of his 6th round contract and appears to have sub package utility with this exact surrounding team? I don't know a number, but anyone that thinks they do is using their imagination.
Actually, if I were to argue further, it makes a LOT of sense to develop Green as the Browns future #2 QB. If he can develop into a guy that can be relied on for a couple of games a year if the starter is injured, that's great, that's what veteran backups do. However, if he can be that AND give them the sub packages you are talking about, then he becomes even more valuable as a contributing member of the roster weekly.
I don't pretend to know what Taylen Green is going to become. I also don't pretend to know what Spencer Fano, KC Concepcion, Denzel Boston, etc... is going to become. We know what their potential is right now, which is what we are discussing. We can have separate discussions about past draft picks and what they did or didn't do. No one is really interested in those discussions because they are irrelevant to the future of the Browns. Just as this current classes failure to develop players won't matter 5 years from now, they won't be part of the equation.
As I've said before, we could all stop talking about them completely since the draft is over and we can't predict what 2029 brings, but what fun is that?
I'm the one that posted we should keep Taylen 3-4 years to see what he can develop into. We need a 3rd string QB anyways so why not a guy with his skills. Irish out of those 36 QB's drafted in the 6th round over the last 20 years how many have the physical skills TG has? How many had the insane numbers he put up at the combine? I'll bet none. He's worth keeping on the roster to see what Monken can do with him. Small investment but possibly a huge upside!
Going by stats when it is in reference to individual players is as an ignorant of a view of things as there can be. Every player is different. They have different skill levels, abilities, how long they have played the position etc.... Players are worth developing. Some will develop many more won't. How much God given talent does a player have and how much ability to learn and work ethic does that same player have. That is the real difference. Taylen Green has athletic skills that most 1st round QB's do not have. Does he have the capacity and work ethic to learn and develop? Hopefully Green is a tremendously hard worker and can develop. At this point none of us know including the know it all's that site stats as opinion.
Sanders could prove to be an exception to the rule. From all indications around Berea he camped out in the facility all winter after the season watching film and working on his game and Todd Monken's playbook. He is at least putting in the work to get better. I appreciate players that work at their craft. Sounds like Watson has also put the work in as reports are he has looked really good so far both moving well and arm looks strong. Could be a very interesting camp with these 2. Green is worth developing. His raw talent is jaw dropping. Now it is up to him and the coaches.
I agree with your wisdom and insight. I like what I have heard about him. If our worst fallback option is Green at QB3, then we have some options to work with. I have been considering what ir might mean to have him on the field as a second QB for some gadget or gimmick plays. He might really challenge defenses in multiple ways. Hope to see more that will let his Combine performance translate to the NFL battlefield. Wishing all of them good luck.
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
I'm the one that posted we should keep Taylen 3-4 years to see what he can develop into. We need a 3rd string QB anyways so why not a guy with his skills. Irish out of those 36 QB's drafted in the 6th round over the last 20 years how many have the physical skills TG has? How many had the insane numbers he put up at the combine? I'll bet none. He's worth keeping on the roster to see what Monken can do with him. Small investment but possibly a huge upside!
I know you were the one that made the 3-4 comment,
I'm not going to pretend that I know every name on this list of 36. But of those I do know, I don't think any had the same athletic traits. We all know there has never been a QB like Green at the combine, so I'm going to take that as a rhetorical question.
As Bone said, Green is going to get his chance. Right now it's going to be in the shadows, but you can learn a lot observing from the shadows. If he understands that his time will come, he could set himself up to have a great opportunity.
Where did you get your data? I was exploring the historical outcomes question, too and search engine AI wasn't very good at understanding the data it was pulling from. (I asked Google for 6th round QBs that ran for over 700 yards in a college season and it spat out Gardiner Minshew as the answer along with some names of other people nowhere close)
I ask because Joe Webb wasn't on your list. He seemed like the closest athletic profile to me (though still not exact,) and he played 10 seasons, too. Yes, he eventually converted to WR/gadget guy, but he was a QB his first 3 years in MIN (and was drafted as one.)
While I don't see the WR conversion for him, I do think the "gadget" possibilities give Green a decently long longevity floor.
With the exception of Sudfeld, the guys that did last were guys that used their legs/athleticism as a significant part of their game.
Lesser athletes taken late are easier to let go of than guys with tantalizing traits. I wonder what the average career length of guys with a RAS over 9 is. MathBomb might actually have something like that somewhere.
You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
It was a rhetorical question. There probably isn’t any QB tested ever at the combine no matter what round they were drafted in that had Taylens numbers. I also think that right now with the HC we have there is a better chance of developing him than what we had previously. Monken already did it in Baltimore and Lamar while gifted, isn’t as physically gifted TG. I have my opinion it doesn’t mean i’ll be right but time will tell. TG is worth a shot. He seems like a good kid and i’ll be pulling for him.
The AVERAGE time spent on their drafting team is 1.62 years.
Thank you. I'm glad you did your research.
Lol, yeah I figured that's all you would get out of the entire post. It is still relevant to my posts message, but you can't correlate the two for some reason. I stated that he might not be on the Browns in 4 years, but there's a better than 50/50 chance he is in 2027... That number corroborates my statement, not yours. You asked the question between Sanders and Green as the #3 QB in 2027... It still supports my post that it would be Green.
If you took all the conversations accumulatively, a reasonable person would ascertain that Green has an above average chance to beat the one and done notion, simply because his attributes are so much higher than the typical 6th round draft pick, let alone the QB position.
Where did you get your data? I was exploring the historical outcomes question, too and search engine AI wasn't very good at understanding the data it was pulling from. (I asked Google for 6th round QBs that ran for over 700 yards in a college season and it spat out Gardiner Minshew as the answer along with some names of other people nowhere close)
I ask because Joe Webb wasn't on your list. He seemed like the closest athletic profile to me (though still not exact,) and he played 10 seasons, too. Yes, he eventually converted to WR/gadget guy, but he was a QB his first 3 years in MIN (and was drafted as one.)
While I don't see the WR conversion for him, I do think the "gadget" possibilities give Green a decently long longevity floor.
With the exception of Sudfeld, the guys that did last were guys that used their legs/athleticism as a significant part of their game.
Lesser athletes taken late are easier to let go of than guys with tantalizing traits. I wonder what the average career length of guys with a RAS over 9 is. MathBomb might actually have something like that somewhere.
I literally have a spreadsheet I could share if I knew how to, lol.
I looked at the historical data from the past 20 seasons of 6th round draft picks and charted the QBs. I obviously missed one, fortunately, it would have helped the cause. Then I looked at all 36 players individually to see how long they were with their drafting team, how long they consecutively played in the NFL, then put formulas in to calculate the numbers relevant to the conversation. I did NOT go through each individual players stats to find comparative players to Green. I was only interested in the average numbers a certain poster was arguing about.
You seem to have forgotten what our discussion was about......
Originally Posted by Homewood Dog
He can be our 3rd stringer for the next 3-4 years if need be. With his physical attributes he's an intriguing prospect.
I quoted the part of your post that was relative to the discussion. By your own research you provided factual information that this was likely false as I've been contending all along.
That's a you problem at this point.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
You seem to have forgotten what our discussion was about......
Originally Posted by Homewood Dog
He can be our 3rd stringer for the next 3-4 years if need be. With his physical attributes he's an intriguing prospect.
I quoted the part of your post that was relative to the discussion. By your own research you provided factual information that this was likely false as I've been contending all along.
That's a you problem at this point.
....you do realize you're replying to one person while quoting someone else's post? Homewood Dog and IrishDawg42 aren't the same person.
Can denotes a possibility. Homewood didn't say 100% will be. If anything, the research (of IrishDawg42) showed that it was possible.
Not knowing what you're talking about or who you're talking to is a PitDAWG problem.
You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
You seem to have forgotten what our discussion was about......
Originally Posted by Homewood Dog
He can be our 3rd stringer for the next 3-4 years if need be. With his physical attributes he's an intriguing prospect.
I quoted the part of your post that was relative to the discussion. By your own research you provided factual information that this was likely false as I've been contending all along.
That's a you problem at this point.
Well, except that isn't my post....
BUT... since you brought up Homewood Dog's post, all he stated was "He could be our third stringer for the next 3-4 years" Which falls right into the average 6th round QB pick's NFL career of 4.25 years.
In what universe do you think you are winning this debate?
For one, you are trying to argue statistics with a guys hypothetical, which is ridiculous to begin with, but then you double down and his statement falls within the statistics.
Out of the 36, you have to whittle that down to 30 because 6 of those have only been in the league for 2 years, so that alone puts them outside the parameters.
Out of the 30 that are left, 7 were with their original team for at least 3 years. So 23% of the eligible QBs drafted in the 6th round were with their original team for at least 3 years... numbers are a fickle b!tch, sometimes they help, sometimes they don't. In this case they aren't helping you at all...
The unknown with Green is football IQ. That was supposed to be the strength of Gabriel, I didn't get to see it, but he also was given a very small window to show it.
You can have all the physical tools in the world, but if you don't know how to use them properly, you're never going to succeed. I am glad he is in Cleveland so we can try to observe from afar. It's going to be a fun observation, good or bad.
You seem to have forgotten what our discussion was about......
Originally Posted by Homewood Dog
He can be our 3rd stringer for the next 3-4 years if need be. With his physical attributes he's an intriguing prospect.
I quoted the part of your post that was relative to the discussion. By your own research you provided factual information that this was likely false as I've been contending all along.
That's a you problem at this point.
Well, except that isn't my post....
BUT... since you brought up Homewood Dog's post, all he stated was "He could be our third stringer for the next 3-4 years" Which falls right into the average 6th round QB pick's NFL career of 4.25 years.
In what universe do you think you are winning this debate?
For one, you are trying to argue statistics with a guys hypothetical, which is ridiculous to begin with, but then you double down and his statement falls within the statistics.
He said "He can be our 3rd stringer for the next 3-4 years if need be.
None of that has anything to do with how long he may remain in the league. Trying to flip the script isn't going to help you now. Your own research shows that is a highly unlikely scenario. Your research shows the average time a 6th rounder spends with the team that drafted him is 1.6 seasons. The numbers your research turned up are not my fault. Can and could are not the same thing either.
So can he be? Yes. Do the stats show that is a very unlikely scenario as I have stated? Yes they do. That is backed up by your own stats, not mine.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
You seem to have forgotten what our discussion was about......
Originally Posted by Homewood Dog
He can be our 3rd stringer for the next 3-4 years if need be. With his physical attributes he's an intriguing prospect.
I quoted the part of your post that was relative to the discussion. By your own research you provided factual information that this was likely false as I've been contending all along.
That's a you problem at this point.
Well, except that isn't my post....
BUT... since you brought up Homewood Dog's post, all he stated was "He could be our third stringer for the next 3-4 years" Which falls right into the average 6th round QB pick's NFL career of 4.25 years.
In what universe do you think you are winning this debate?
For one, you are trying to argue statistics with a guys hypothetical, which is ridiculous to begin with, but then you double down and his statement falls within the statistics.
He said "He can be our 3rd stringer for the next 3-4 years if need be.
None of that has anything to do with how long he may remain in the league. Trying to flip the script isn't going to help you now. Your own research shows that is a highly unlikely scenario. Your research shows the average time a 6th rounder spends with the team that drafted him is 1.6 seasons. The numbers your research turned up are not my fault. Can and could are not the same thing either.
So can he be? Yes. Do the stats show that is a very unlikely scenario as I have stated? Yes they do. That is backed up by your own stats, not mine.
I'm not flipping anything. MY post said that Green would be the 3rd string QB over Sanders in2027.. YOU are the one flipping it showing someone else's post. 2027 isn't 3-4 years, it would be year two for Green. You're question was you would have Green over Sanders for #3? My short answer was, YES. Then I went on to explain and you went into a tirade like you do frequently.
I'm beginning to think you argue with so many people, you can't keep the arguments straight.
Tssk, tssk, tssk. Please show where I ever argued with you about Green being a third stringer in 2027. Don't worry I'll wait.
I’ve already shown you 20 something posts back, look it up. We need a new subject, you’ve reached the point of boring me with the art of saying nothing productive.
QB is the most complicated position on the field, but I think you know that. WR might not be easier to teach, but it is easier to learn.
I am not saying we give up on him being a QB. He has way more talent than Shedufus. I am just saying to get him playing more this season, I would give WR a look.
I am not sure if it was you talking about long legs being a detriment, but Randy Moss had long legs too. So have a lot of other receivers. Green didn't ace all of the agility tests at the combine while stumbling over his long legs.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.
QB is the most complicated position on the field, but I think you know that. WR might not be easier to teach, but it is easier to learn.
I am not saying we give up on him being a QB. He has way more talent than Shedufus. I am just saying to get him playing more this season, I would give WR a look.
I am not sure if it was you talking about long legs being a detriment, but Randy Moss had long legs too. So have a lot of other receivers. Green didn't ace all of the agility tests at the combine while stumbling over his long legs.
I called his long legs a detriment to playing WR. Yes, Moss is the type of WR I said his body type could potentially (though still not likely to me) be as more of a straight line deep threat.
Taylen didn't do the agility drills at the combine nor his pro day. No 3 cone or shuttles.
You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
I see his "WR"-Gadget role more as fly sweeps with a run/pass option than ever running routes. His QB-"gadget" role as more wildcat and pop pass. I'd still focus on full time mobile QB with rollouts and RPOs.
You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
Tssk, tssk, tssk. Please show where I ever argued with you about Green being a third stringer in 2027. Don't worry I'll wait.
I’ve already shown you 20 something posts back, look it up. We need a new subject, you’ve reached the point of boring me with the art of saying nothing productive.
This is the perfect response when you can't back up your assertions. I expected as much.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
I see his "WR"-Gadget role more as fly sweeps with a run/pass option than ever running routes. His QB-"gadget" role as more wildcat and pop pass. I'd still focus on full time mobile QB with rollouts and RPOs.
I think Green will have to build trust in Monken that he won't turn he ball over before he starts the gadget role. I can see this as something for the latter part of the season not something they will start the season with.
Just a wee bit more to add. If you get a gadget or gimmick to work with him a few times, then you want it on tape. You show some wrinkles to force other D's to prepare for it. Complicate their calls a bit more. We have heard it said that some opponents didn't need to do much to prepare for us under Ski. I think you get him into a number of looks. Just putting him on the field should command attention and adjustments. t
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
Tssk, tssk, tssk. Please show where I ever argued with you about Green being a third stringer in 2027. Don't worry I'll wait.
I’ve already shown you 20 something posts back, look it up. We need a new subject, you’ve reached the point of boring me with the art of saying nothing productive.
This is the perfect response when you can't back up your assertions. I expected as much.
Technically, he didn't show you arguing with him about that because you mixed up names and were arguing with him (and 2027 3rd stringer was his position) but about Homewood's position.
It was discussed earlier in the thread.
It is quite fanciful for you to change someone else's argument into something that they didn't argue for then demand that they go find it. Nice deflection attempt. Way to exercise that imagination.
You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
I went back and looked at every 6th round draft pick for the last 20 years. That is 36 QBs drafted in the 6th round.
The AVERAGE life span of that 6th round developmental QB is 4.25 years. The AVERAGE time spent on their drafting team is 1.62 years.
Only ONE QB, Tajh Boyd, washed out in their first year in the NFL.
Only FOUR QBs have gone on to 10+ year careers; Nate Sudfield, Jeff Driskel, Tyrod Taylor and Bruce Gradkowski. There are currently 10 6th round QBs dating back to 2019 that are still active in the league. With one other, Trace McSorley on a 7 year stint that could end as he doesn't currently have a contract.
More recently, 3 out of 5 6th round QBs from 2025 class are still with their drafting teams going into 2026.
The "Stats and Odds" say that Green has a pretty good chance of being a developmental QB for 3-4 years, which is what your parameters were. Chances aren't great that he's a Brown in 3-4 years, but they are better than 50/50 that he is a Brown in 2027.
Someone else? Try again grasshopper.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
So you're saying you were arguing with him. And that last sentence says "50/50 that he [Green] is a Brown in 2027," so I guess you just found/made the post you were asking him for.
You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
The AVERAGE life span of that 6th round developmental QB is 4.25 years. The AVERAGE time spent on their drafting team is 1.62 years.
I am paying attention to you constantly changing your argument and quoting random selections out of context. Plus, 2027 is only one year away which supports his side of it. If he'd said 2028 that 1.62 might have been relevant.
Or do you just think he's right and want me to pay attention to him now?
It's so hard to know when you say so little. I'm not against you saying less, though.
You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
Maybe you should have been paying attention from the beginning......
Originally Posted by PitDAWG
He seems like the perfect type of QB to run in the Wildcat formation. He is nowhere close to what you would want as a starting NFL QB at this point in time and his int. total should tell people that.
But as of now he would be prefect in the Wildcat. How much he improves from there moving forward is anyone's guess.
The premise is he won't be given 3 to 4 years to develop. And his stats back that up. You can't show anywhere that I argued against the odds being favorable that he could be the 3rd string QB in 2027. At this point your tilting at windmills.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Maybe you should have been paying attention from the beginning......
Originally Posted by PitDAWG
He seems like the perfect type of QB to run in the Wildcat formation. He is nowhere close to what you would want as a starting NFL QB at this point in time and his int. total should tell people that.
But as of now he would be prefect in the Wildcat. How much he improves from there moving forward is anyone's guess.
The premise is he won't be given 3 to 4 years to develop. And his stats back that up. You can't show anywhere that I argued against the odds being favorable that he could be the 3rd string QB in 2027. At this point your tilting at windmills.
No, windmills stay in one place. But tilting at windmills is a fanciful narrative. Paying attention from the beginning doesn't really make things clearer when the other party keeps changing his position. Sticking to what's right in front of you generally works better for keeping things straight.
"He won't be given 3 to 4 years to develop" is not "the" premise, but the one you're changing to now. His stats don't back up anything 3 to 4 years from now. What he does this year will influence next year. What he does next year will influence the year after. The research IrishDawg42 conducted showed 6th round QBs do average around that amount of time. Green's uncommonly good for a 6th rounder tools lead me to lean towards thinking he'll get more than the averages.
You just yesterday quoted a post that had that on the team in 2027 position and said you were arguing with him.
I can't even entirely agree with the almost reasonable unrelated quote you included of yourself due to the over importance placed on an interceptions total statistic.
You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
The AVERAGE life span of that 6th round developmental QB is 4.25 years. The AVERAGE time spent on their drafting team is 1.62 years.
Once again you are tilting at windmills. And since it seems you have no clue what that is or means I'll help you out, this time...........
"Tilting at Windmills" is a famous idiom meaning to "attack imaginary enemies," which originated from Miguel de Cervantes' 17th-century classic novel, Don Quixote. In the book, the delusional knight-errant famously mistakes massive windmills for terrifying giants and attacks them.
The only thing you can show that I've actually argued against is that NFL teams rarely if ever give 6th round QB's 3-4 years to develop. I realize you are trying to play stupid and pretend that's not true but you're smart enough to know better. At least I hope so.
#tiltingatwindmills
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Just a wee bit more to add. If you get a gadget or gimmick to work with him a few times, then you want it on tape. You show some wrinkles to force other D's to prepare for it. Complicate their calls a bit more. We have heard it said that some opponents didn't need to do much to prepare for us under Ski. I think you get him into a number of looks. Just putting him on the field should command attention and adjustments. t
I agree unless you use him as we used Schwartz where it was obvious what the next play was going to be. If we just stick him in to run a reverse or QB option and teams know that, there isn't an element of surprise.
Trick plays don't work if the opponent isn't tricked. I still say it would be a good idea to tell Green report over to coach Jones with the receivers and have him work out there for a day. See if he can catch, which I suspect he can. Maybe just the last 15 minutes of a practice and any voluntary time after practice just to take a look.
I think the guy could become a star as a receiver. Note I did say "could", and obviously it wouldn't be overnight. I think his chances at QB are very limited. If Shedufus balls out, he will become our QB of the future. If not, we will draft a QB in the next draft, and he will get all of the attention the next 3-4 years. I don't see much of a window at the position for Green at QB.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.
Just a wee bit more to add. If you get a gadget or gimmick to work with him a few times, then you want it on tape. You show some wrinkles to force other D's to prepare for it. Complicate their calls a bit more. We have heard it said that some opponents didn't need to do much to prepare for us under Ski. I think you get him into a number of looks. Just putting him on the field should command attention and adjustments. t
I agree unless you use him as we used Schwartz where it was obvious what the next play was going to be. If we just stick him in to run a reverse or QB option and teams know that, there isn't an element of surprise.
Trick plays don't work if the opponent isn't tricked. I still say it would be a good idea to tell Green report over to coach Jones with the receivers and have him work out there for a day. See if he can catch, which I suspect he can. Maybe just the last 15 minutes of a practice and any voluntary time after practice just to take a look.
I think the guy could become a star as a receiver. Note I did say "could", and obviously it wouldn't be overnight. I think his chances at QB are very limited. If Shedufus balls out, he will become our QB of the future. If not, we will draft a QB in the next draft, and he will get all of the attention the next 3-4 years. I don't see much of a window at the position for Green at QB.
Taylen Green is a QB. He's always been a QB. They could put 25 plays for red zone opportunites and have him master those 25 plays instead of opening the entire playbook. The problem with this lies in the fact he would not be a viable option for a backup QB, so he would be taking another spot up on the game day roster other than emergency backup QB. So, a lineman, DB, receiver, RB, someone that might contribute due to injuries would be left out of the options.
My argument is, too many players are standing on the sidelines waiting for an injury. Taylen Green would be on the roster to maximize red zone production. HE would be more valuable than these extra bodies normally reserved for sideline cheer section.
If they determine he can successfully run 25 plays, he's in. If he can't then what are we doing anyway?
Just a note on what I said originally. Complicate opponent preparation a bit by showing them something different. A second QB, one who cab throw/catch/run during a play, especially red zone, can complicate defensive calls. Some potential offense to process and influence and hopefully complicate reactions. Limiting players on the roster isn't savvy IMO. Give the opponent more to consider, more to practice for, steal some prep time. The "surprise" offensive wrinkle is something to pursue a bit. But first the offense has to hurt the opponent in the game. But the rest of the schedule may prepare for it. Scripting Green gadgets or other players' surprises offer some dividend if they take up practice time and give the D more to process. An offense's job is to force the D to perform, to react, to adjust. Not all players are suitable for this, but this kid is.
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
Just a wee bit more to add. If you get a gadget or gimmick to work with him a few times, then you want it on tape. You show some wrinkles to force other D's to prepare for it. Complicate their calls a bit more. We have heard it said that some opponents didn't need to do much to prepare for us under Ski. I think you get him into a number of looks. Just putting him on the field should command attention and adjustments. t
I agree unless you use him as we used Schwartz where it was obvious what the next play was going to be. If we just stick him in to run a reverse or QB option and teams know that, there isn't an element of surprise.
Trick plays don't work if the opponent isn't tricked. I still say it would be a good idea to tell Green report over to coach Jones with the receivers and have him work out there for a day. See if he can catch, which I suspect he can. Maybe just the last 15 minutes of a practice and any voluntary time after practice just to take a look.
I think the guy could become a star as a receiver. Note I did say "could", and obviously it wouldn't be overnight. I think his chances at QB are very limited. If Shedufus balls out, he will become our QB of the future. If not, we will draft a QB in the next draft, and he will get all of the attention the next 3-4 years. I don't see much of a window at the position for Green at QB.
Taylen Green is a QB. He's always been a QB. They could put 25 plays for red zone opportunites and have him master those 25 plays instead of opening the entire playbook. The problem with this lies in the fact he would not be a viable option for a backup QB, so he would be taking another spot up on the game day roster other than emergency backup QB. So, a lineman, DB, receiver, RB, someone that might contribute due to injuries would be left out of the options.
My argument is, too many players are standing on the sidelines waiting for an injury. Taylen Green would be on the roster to maximize red zone production. HE would be more valuable than these extra bodies normally reserved for sideline cheer section.
If they determine he can successfully run 25 plays, he's in. If he can't then what are we doing anyway?
Who cares if he has always been a QB? I agree, it's about getting the most out of a player.
The guy is a dynamic playmaker with his legs, not his arm. If he was a statue QB, his arm wouldn't have carried him very far. I just don't see a window of opportunity for the guy to become the next great QB for the Browns for the reasons I mentioned before. If Shedufus doesn't play to the level that makes us decide we don't need to draft a QB early in the draft we aren't going to all of a sudden think Green is the guy and give him the next 4 years to be our great QB. We will draft someone who will be given that opportunity.
We will still be able to use Green for some of the situations you mention for this season, but we don't need to be grooming him to be a back-up QB. Either Sanders grabs the role this season or we will draft someone to take that role.
I agree, Green won't be a solid back-up this season. I do think Gabriel can. I think many have written him off a bit too soon. If Green is a take a roster position, I would rather see him take a roster sport from Tillman or Corley or whoever.
Heck, Cribbs was a QB his whole career before he got to the NFL. He didn't get QB snaps unless it was in a situation much as you described. Heinz Ward was a QB until a team not far away decided he needed to be on the field as a WR. That worked out pretty good.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.
He said he would only play QB and the Browns also said they drafted him to be a QB. If I were him and a team drafted me while telling me a lie I doubt I would be willing to go along with it.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
I would stick to trying to develop him as a QB. As we all know he has off the chart physical skills. It may take a while but it could be worth it. He can be our #3 for a few years.
The thing is, you keep saying over and over you don't think he has an opportunity to be a QB...but you want him to be a wide receiver. A position he admitted he has zero experience in and zero ambition to learn. What open opportunity do you see him sliding into there?
The browns starting WRs are "probably"
Jerry Jeudy KC Concepcion Denzel Boston
Those in the know are saying that Isaiah Bond is very impressive this offseason. He will be #4 with a lot of playing time. I'll be surprised if Cedric Tillman isn't the 5th Tylan Wallace is most likely the 6th guy for punt return duties
We could also go with 5 WRs on the roster, if KC is doing returns.
I could see a development WR role if he went to the practice squad, but there is no guarantee he will make it to the practice squad.
If he is going to make the actual roster this season, I only see that path through package QB plays or a lot of injuries.
I would stick to trying to develop him as a QB. As we all know he has off the chart physical skills. It may take a while but it could be worth it. He can be our #3 for a few years.
I don't know about that. 6th round QB's don't usually get three years to develop. Potential and athletic ability are not nearly enough to be an NFL QB. It takes much more than that. Actually the QB position is more about what's behind the ears than athletic ability. It's certainly an attribute in the package however. I have no idea if he has the ability to mentally process and evolve into an actual NFL QB but if that were strong possibility I don't think he would have been sitting there in round 6. But who knows?
As of now he would certainly be of value to come in on QB packages. The RPO would be right up his alley and keep opposing D's off guard. He most certainly could develop into more but I don't think you take three years to try and develop him into an actual QB.
Could he develop into more? Most certainly. But I don't believe you invest three years waiting to find out.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
I liked Green. I hyped him before the draft and probably before many on here really ever heard of the guy.
You develop by playing. I have explained it several times. I don't see and real window where he will play. Dufus gets this year. If he gets hurt, Watson is #2. We all agree there isn't much future in trying to sign Watson again. We probably wouldn't and even if we did try, Watson probably won't want to sign here again given all that has happened unless it is his only real choice.
If we draft a QB with our #1 pick, especially if we trade some picks as well to get him, he will be the starter. Plain and simple, he will be the starter for at least 2-3 seasons. I know we look to be better at receiver but don't act like we can't use another good option at the position.
I would rather see Green develop in to a solid WR over that of a back-up QB. We would get more value out of the guy. I think possibly star value. He might do that at QB. I just don't see a path where get will get the opportunity.
Where is he going to get his chance to shine at QB enough to alter any plans to draft a QB #1 next year if Shedufus falters and doesn't look like a star level player? Taking a few snaps as a Wildcat QB this season isn't going to do that. If anything it is going to bolster my position because some coach is going to say we need to keep that guy on the field for 70% of the snaps. I don't see him and a TE or running back, so what does that leave?
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.
I liked Green. I hyped him before the draft and probably before many on here really ever heard of the guy.
You develop by playing. I have explained it several times. I don't see and real window where he will play. Dufus gets this year. If he gets hurt, Watson is #2. We all agree there isn't much future in trying to sign Watson again. We probably wouldn't and even if we did try, Watson probably won't want to sign here again given all that has happened unless it is his only real choice.
If we draft a QB with our #1 pick, especially if we trade some picks as well to get him, he will be the starter. Plain and simple, he will be the starter for at least 2-3 seasons. I know we look to be better at receiver but don't act like we can't use another good option at the position.
I would rather see Green develop in to a solid WR over that of a back-up QB. We would get more value out of the guy. I think possibly star value. He might do that at QB. I just don't see a path where get will get the opportunity.
Where is he going to get his chance to shine at QB enough to alter any plans to draft a QB #1 next year if Shedufus falters and doesn't look like a star level player? Taking a few snaps as a Wildcat QB this season isn't going to do that. If anything it is going to bolster my position because some coach is going to say we need to keep that guy on the field for 70% of the snaps. I don't see him and a TE or running back, so what does that leave?
Don't take it the wrong way, I am always wanting to find a diamond in the rough, but the odds of him converting to a successful wide receiver are lower than developing into a viable QB options, as low as that may be. Just dismissing the fact he is here as a QB saying you want him to be a great WR, it just doesn't seem very logical.
I'm not trying to fit him into anything.. he's a 6th round draft pick. IF he was a diamond in the rough that 31 teams missed, that is awesome. It that doesn't happen, but the skill set jumps off the field and smacks you in the face, then you have to have the hard talk with him and let him know his roster spot is in jeopardy unless he can use his skill set at another position. Then and only then do you have that discussion. Give the man a chance to fail though. He is a long shot to succeed as a 6th round pick. Pit and I have gone rounds already about, not just the odds, but the time frame for him to improve those odds. His Best and possibly only chance to be a Brown is to show he can be a QB. They don't have time to try him out at several positions just because he ran great at the combine. He either shows something that is worth developing, or he is just another 6th rounder that failed to make a roster. Then you could try to sneak him on to the practice squad. Frankly, those 31 teams passed him over, him not making the roster probably doesn't give them any more reason to put him on their roster after preseason is done. He probably could make the practice squad.
There is no telling how and where Green will develop if you don't explore the options.
I am not talking a wholesale switch at this point. I am just talking about having him go work with the receivers for a practice or two and see if the guy can catch.
If he can't, that settles that. If he can it gives us something to think about. What's wrong with that?
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.
There is no telling how and where Green will develop if you don't explore the options.
I am not talking a wholesale switch at this point. I am just talking about having him go work with the receivers for a practice or two and see if the guy can catch.
If he can't, that settles that. If he can it gives us something to think about. What's wrong with that?
If you do that, you are dooming his career. It is probably less than 5% chance he succeeds at any position. If you take him away from concentrating on one to "explore" another. He will never catch up to any of his competition at any position. This isn't college, these are now professionals fighting for a precious spot on one of 32 teams. I can guarantee you, as sure as I am sitting here, if you throw Green in with the WRs, he is going to look lost and his chance to win a spot as a QB will be gone. He will not look as good as the worst WR we currently have competing, not because he isn't a great athlete, because he has never played the position. Throw him a ball, maybe he can catch it, maybe he can't.. but as soon as you put him in 7 on 7 drills, he is going to look like an ass. He has never run a route and that doesn't come to you by working with the WRs for 1/2 hour a day or even two full practices with them for evaluation. All it would do is take away from his work with the QB room, which is where Monken wants him and that is where he wants to be as well.
Now... if he does not make a roster spot at the end of all of this and is relegated to practice squad, that's when you have that conversation. Let him know what your opinion is about future success at QB and that you would like to give him an opportunity to explore other options on the practice squad. Then he is free to get signed to another team's 53 man roster, or explore those skills on the practice squad to see where it goes. As for the present, he and they need to pour all efforts into seeing if he can be a QB in this league.
The thing is about the practice squad, a team can't just sign him away to be on theirs. If he signs a PS contract, other teams actually have to sign him to a 53 man roster spot to take him away from the Browns.
I would give Green a good amount of time to develop as a QB. I did mention 3 years. If after a certain amount of time he isn't making the progress the coaches want to see I would just tell him if you want to try and make it in this league, you'll have to play another position whatever they determine it to be. For now, give him every opportunity to be a QB.
There is no telling how and where Green will develop if you don't explore the options.
I am not talking a wholesale switch at this point. I am just talking about having him go work with the receivers for a practice or two and see if the guy can catch.
If he can't, that settles that. If he can it gives us something to think about. What's wrong with that?
I suppose nothing is wrong with that if you don't mind the team lying to him when they drafted him. He said he was only going to be a QB and the team said they drafted him to be a QB.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
There is no telling how and where Green will develop if you don't explore the options.
I am not talking a wholesale switch at this point. I am just talking about having him go work with the receivers for a practice or two and see if the guy can catch.
If he can't, that settles that. If he can it gives us something to think about. What's wrong with that?
I suppose nothing is wrong with that if you don't mind the team lying to him when they drafted him. He said he was only going to be a QB and the team said they drafted him to be a QB.
Once drafted he becomes a player on that team. He has been given a chance to play QB. If that does not work out the Coach has every right to move that player to another position.
I would give Green a good amount of time to develop as a QB. I did mention 3 years. If after a certain amount of time he isn't making the progress the coaches want to see I would just tell him if you want to try and make it in this league, you'll have to play another position whatever they determine it to be. For now, give him every opportunity to be a QB.
You are kidding yourself about developing him over 3 years. Waste of time and talent. The only way that happens is if Shedufus wins the job and excels to the point we decide we don't need to take a QB with our 1st round pick. If we take a QB in the draft, it's over for the other guys. That selection will get all of the developmental time over the next 3-4 years.
I don't see it as dooming the guys career to work him some at receiver to see if a switch down the road is possible.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.
There is no telling how and where Green will develop if you don't explore the options.
I am not talking a wholesale switch at this point. I am just talking about having him go work with the receivers for a practice or two and see if the guy can catch.
If he can't, that settles that. If he can it gives us something to think about. What's wrong with that?
I suppose nothing is wrong with that if you don't mind the team lying to him when they drafted him. He said he was only going to be a QB and the team said they drafted him to be a QB.
Once drafted he becomes a player on that team. He has been given a chance to play QB. If that does not work out the Coach has every right to move that player to another position.
Why am I not surprised you promote them telling Green one thing and then doing something else? He said he wasn't going to play another position. Green has the right not to play as well. Then you either cut him or trade him. Let me guess, you think they should just keep him, pay him and him not play him at all just to "teach him a lesson"?
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
There is no telling how and where Green will develop if you don't explore the options.
I am not talking a wholesale switch at this point. I am just talking about having him go work with the receivers for a practice or two and see if the guy can catch.
If he can't, that settles that. If he can it gives us something to think about. What's wrong with that?
I suppose nothing is wrong with that if you don't mind the team lying to him when they drafted him. He said he was only going to be a QB and the team said they drafted him to be a QB.
Once drafted he becomes a player on that team. He has been given a chance to play QB. If that does not work out the Coach has every right to move that player to another position.
Why am I not surprised you promote them telling Green one thing and then doing something else? He said he wasn't going to play another position. Green has the right not to play as well. Then you either cut him or trade him. Let me guess, you think they should just keep him, pay him and him not play him at all just to "teach him a lesson"?
.
They are trying him at QB. If that does not work out, they will then move him. He is under team control for 4 years.
And it was agreed upon when he signed that contract he would be playing the QB position. Both he and the team agreed to that and said so publicly. I understand that many people don't believe that a corporation has a duty to honor their word. Only regular people seem to be held to that standard it appears.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Lots of people talk aout LeNorris Sellers as a 1st round draft pick in 2027 How is he any different than Green? Both great runners and great athletes Both questionable decision making and too many turnovers
Is buttcheeks one word? Or should I spread them apart?
Lots of people talk aout LeNorris Sellers as a 1st round draft pick in 2027 How is he any different than Green? Both great runners and great athletes Both questionable decision making and too many turnovers
Sellers has one more year of eligibility to break out? If it stays status quo, there won't be much difference. He showed a lot of promise his second year, but didn't build on it his third year. If he doesn't show VAST improvement, the talk of first round will go away quickly.
What you're saying is true Irish. I think a lot of the hype with Sellers is that he reminds people of Cam Newton. He will have to turn his play completely around for talk of him being drafted in the 1st round.
Lots of people talk aout LeNorris Sellers as a 1st round draft pick in 2027 How is he any different than Green? Both great runners and great athletes Both questionable decision making and too many turnovers
Sellers has one more year of eligibility to break out? If it stays status quo, there won't be much difference. He showed a lot of promise his second year, but didn't build on it his third year. If he doesn't show VAST improvement, the talk of first round will go away quickly.
The young man has a lot to prove.
Jester: LeNorris doesn't wind up like Tim Tebow to throw a pass. His arm is elite with no asterisks. He fires a ball 30 yards with a flick of the wrist.
'Rish: Disagree. Won't have to be VAST, won't even have to improve much. If he's healthy, he's top 15. He ran for his life last season and faced as much pressure as anyone in the game. Fans may be blinking, scouts are not, and for good reason. jmo
I wasn't implying that you did. I was telling you difference. I guess my wording fell short. I was saying that while they're similar; one looks like Tebow when he's throwing the ball.
Taylen Green winds up to throw the ball, much like Tim Tebow. He has terrible form. So bad he reminds me of Mike Clevinger.
Runs like the wind! That throwing motion worries me. It's one thing when a young QB needs some obvious tweaks (Josh Allen came a long way quickly), it's another when they need a full mechanical rebuild. Green is closer to the latter, imo. Upside is through the roof though; it's definitely worth the experiment.
I think that about sums it up. He'll get every opportunity to be a QB, but if he isn't getting it done, they'll have the hard talk: You can either have a future as a WR and collect NFL paychecks for a long while, or you can go start your second career outside the NFL.
I expect the bar will be fairly low this year. See if he can run some Lamar-esque plays and function at the NFL level at all. After that, it's all on him and whether or not he can grow into something more.
Last edited by PrplPplEater; 06/17/2604:23 PM.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
Well,itcan't hurt him to get on the jugs and catch. I would think it makes him a better sales target for trade bait. He wanted to show his stuff in Combine, so why not get paid for it. That hard talk better happen before cuts.
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
What would you like to discuss, how Brailsford is slightly on the lighter side?
All other picks have a roster spot besides our 7th round TE Ryan. He is really the only other pick on a bubble.
Once training camp hits, the others will start evaluations based on performance against their competition.
Right now Green is in competition with himself to show he can change his mechanics. That’s what everyone is jumping the gun on, he probably isnt getting judged on a group of plays, they are probably working with him one on one to fix his major issues. That is something a few months of work should show vast improvement, otherwise it’s going to be a waste of time for the 53/54 man roster. He would def become a practice squad candidate.
As for judging Browns fans, you are right there with us. You aren’t posing questions on any of the other players threads, you are commenting in this one.
Well,itcan't hurt him to get on the jugs and catch. I would think it makes him a better sales target for trade bait. He wanted to show his stuff in Combine, so why not get paid for it. That hard talk better happen before cuts.
I agree. I don't think we will be able to get him to the practice squad. .
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.
Pretty sure we couldn't keep him. Run him then. Play him. I can't believe he is calling the shots. Be thankful if you can be part of The Bigs!
My point entirely, and he isn't calling the shots. If we told him to spend one practice with the wide receivers, he would gladly do that. He wouldn't pout and whine like a baby thinking we lied to him.
I think the guy is a competitor and if seeing the field is at some other position, he would be all for it. I would gladly swap Green for Tillman assuming Green can catch. Tillman had what, maybe 20 receptions for 300 yards last year? That is dime a dozen production. Green might surpass that yardage total in 4 games with his running ability.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.
I feel better rolling the dice on Green. The other QB may be worth checking out, and a number of posters seem tp want that. I believe it would muddy the situation more. We haven't got the measure of that room under Monken yet. Not comparing apples to apples yet or anytime soon. Developing Green in two or three capacities that help the browns make sense and good use of his roster spot. If we take Sorsby(?) it feels like drawing to an inside straight (again). I am more comfortable picking him up if we "weed" the QB room or have a reliable sense of how he can work out. I will be clear: I feel no pressure to check him out, become part of this gambling taint, and import his baggage and issues on fans' sayso. MKC seems to want some QB controversy again, and annual failing. Just say no. Cheap picks with problems are not bargains for the roster or the ;locker room chemistry. As I have stated before, I am not that curious.
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
I feel better rolling the dice on Green. The other QB may be worth checking out, and a number of posters seem tp want that. I believe it would muddy the situation more. We haven't got the measure of that room under Monken yet. Not comparing apples to apples yet or anytime soon. Developing Green in two or three capacities that help the browns make sense and good use of his roster spot. If we take Sorsby(?) it feels like drawing to an inside straight (again). I am more comfortable picking him up if we "weed" the QB room or have a reliable sense of how he can work out. I will be clear: I feel no pressure to check him out, become part of this gambling taint, and import his baggage and issues on fans' sayso. MKC seems to want some QB controversy again, and annual failing. Just say no. Cheap picks with problems are not bargains for the roster or the ;locker room chemistry. As I have stated before, I am not that curious.
Given the flux in the current QB room I don't think we will take Sorsby, or at least with anything but a late pick....say 6th round. He has already missed enough time this year to make him useless for this season, not counting anything the NFL docks him.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.
Well,itcan't hurt him to get on the jugs and catch. I would think it makes him a better sales target for trade bait. He wanted to show his stuff in Combine, so why not get paid for it. That hard talk better happen before cuts.
I agree. I don't think we will be able to get him to the practice squad. .
I’m curious why? No other team wanted him before the SIXTH round. These end of draft picks don’t always make a roster. Why do you think all of a sudden one of them would want to sign him to their 53 man roster without even working him out? They can’t sign a player off a practice squad to another practice squad, they have to sign him directly to their 53 man roster.
If the Browns don’t see enough to have him on the 53, I just don’t think other teams would either at this point. If they aren’t going to sign him, don’t play him in the preseason.
Well,itcan't hurt him to get on the jugs and catch. I would think it makes him a better sales target for trade bait. He wanted to show his stuff in Combine, so why not get paid for it. That hard talk better happen before cuts.
I agree. I don't think we will be able to get him to the practice squad. .
I’m curious why? No other team wanted him before the SIXTH round. These end of draft picks don’t always make a roster. Why do you think all of a sudden one of them would want to sign him to their 53 man roster without even working him out? They can’t sign a player off a practice squad to another practice squad, they have to sign him directly to their 53 man roster.
If the Browns don’t see enough to have him on the 53, I just don’t think other teams would either at this point. If they aren’t going to sign him, don’t play him in the preseason.
The player has to clear waivers before he can be placed on the practice squad. He can be signed as a FA.
I guess we will find out if we try to move him off the roster at cut downs.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.
Well,itcan't hurt him to get on the jugs and catch. I would think it makes him a better sales target for trade bait. He wanted to show his stuff in Combine, so why not get paid for it. That hard talk better happen before cuts.
I agree. I don't think we will be able to get him to the practice squad. .
I’m curious why? No other team wanted him before the SIXTH round. These end of draft picks don’t always make a roster. Why do you think all of a sudden one of them would want to sign him to their 53 man roster without even working him out? They can’t sign a player off a practice squad to another practice squad, they have to sign him directly to their 53 man roster.
If the Browns don’t see enough to have him on the 53, I just don’t think other teams would either at this point. If they aren’t going to sign him, don’t play him in the preseason.
The player has to clear waivers before he can be placed on the practice squad. He can be signed as a FA.
I guess we will find out if we try to move him off the roster at cut downs.
Exactly, a team would have to sign him to the 53 man roster. If they didn’t want him after 6 rounds, who is going to replace one of the slots with a QB that the Browns don’t even want on the 53?
Any team who wants a gadget QB and who is thin at the bottom of their roster.... or, any team that decides they want to try him at WR, or KR. He's in the NFL now; if we waive him, any team can claim him off waivers for free and they then own his rights. Green would have to refuse to sign any contract for the full season to get free of that.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
Agreed, and I feel there is absolutely zero chance of it happening.
Unless he is a complete flop and implodes, he is on the roster. We drafted him to develop him - or to see if he can be developed, I guess. If tons of work and lots of coaching can help him improve his throwing/accuracy, the kid will have a legit chance to be something. is athleticism buys him the ticket to stay and will almost certainly ensure that he gets on the field for some gadget plays this year (think Lamar's early days).
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
...all the best marks by a QB since 2003 ...posted an Athleticism Score of 97
IMO, it would be a foolish risk for the Browns management to attempt to place Green on waivers...he would be claimed in a heart beat.
If the Colts cut Deion Burks, would it be foolish not to claim him? One of the best performers of the combine overall, taken in the 7th round....
I think some people are reading way too much into combine statistics.
If he's a QB, he's a QB and is usually taken way higher than he should have been. He was passed by every team for 5 full rounds. That tells me no one really thinks much of him as a QB.
Originally Posted by PrplPplEater
Any team who wants a gadget QB and who is thin at the bottom of their roster.... or, any team that decides they want to try him at WR, or KR. He's in the NFL now; if we waive him, any team can claim him off waivers for free and they then own his rights. Green would have to refuse to sign any contract for the full season to get free of that.
This is the NFL, if roster spots were plenty, everyone would have a gadget QB on the roster. As it is, until they made a new rule for emergency QBs, NO ONE carried (3) QBs on the roster. Ask yourself why that is and it will explain why I feel he might not make this roster.
How many teams that are "thin" at any position is going to use that spot on a gadget QB?
For the record, he can't just refuse to sign with the new team. He has already signed his rookie contract, so any team that wants to claim him will get him at the 6th round rookie deal he has already signed. If he refuses to play, he is most likely out of the league for good.
College has players designated as athlete. I look at Green that way. Plus, I see his future as something other than QB...
I don't know that you are talking about. If he gets waived by the Browns, he is a free agent without an NFL contract. At that point every team in the league could offer him a contract with him free to sign with anybody he wants and negotiate any terms he wants.
It is much like UDFA players. You see some signed with a signing bonus. That means other teams were trying to sign the guy so teams started bidding above any beyond standard rookie deals.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.
College has players designated as athlete. I look at Green that way. Plus, I see his future as something other than QB...
I don't know that you are talking about. If he gets waived by the Browns, he is a free agent without an NFL contract. At that point every team in the league could offer him a contract with him free to sign with anybody he wants and negotiate any terms he wants.
It is much like UDFA players. You see some signed with a signing bonus. That means other teams were trying to sign the guy so teams started bidding above any beyond standard rookie deals.
No, he is only a free agent after he clears waivers. If he is claimed on waivers, the team that claims him assumes his current contract and MUST put him on their 53 man roster.
If he clears waivers, the Browns will be responsible for the guaranteed portion of the rookie contract, and also can then sign him to the practice squad if they both agree. He can also decide to sign with a different teams practice squad if he clears waivers, but once he signs to the Browns practice squad, another team would also have to sign him to the 53 man roster, they can't just move him to their practice squad.
Clear as mud??
At the end of the day, I am sure he will understand he has the best chance at a 53 man roster spot on the Browns practice squad eventually in 2026. He still has the best opportunity to grow and not only make a roster, but play, by staying with the Browns.
I think the only way the Browns would lose him is if someone claimed him off waivers, which I don't think will happen.
I think some people are reading way too much into combine statistics.[/b]
[b] iris...the combine numbers are simply a tool that can be used to judge a players athletic ability.
Clearly Green's combine numbers say something about the young man that caught Monken's eye.
Given Monken's recent coaching history prior to being named the Browns HC... ...Monken was the Ravens OC and his QB was Lamar Jackson (2023–2025) ...Monken should know how to judge the potential of "dual threat" qbs ...hopefully Green has the ability to learn and progress ...I trust the judgement of Monken and his staff..!
Those who use combine numbers to judge the individual posting the numbers are focusing on the wrong subject matter, imo..!
If you're going to try and factor things in. Factor in they felt safe leaving him on the draft board until the sixth round and a sixth round investment was all they were willing to make for him.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
If you're going to try and factor things in. Factor in they felt safe leaving him on the draft board until the sixth round and a sixth round investment was all they were willing to make for him.
Exactly!
Not just a 6th round pick either, the NINTH of Ten draft picks. He wasn't just ignored through 5 rounds, the Browns ignored him 8 times before pulling the trigger. That's 8 players that probably have a better chance to make the final roster. IF he came in like a bolt of lightening, he would be getting reps in camp. Since the vets arrived, he has received zero reps in 7 on 7 or 11 on 11. That's telling also.
Maybe they are just trying to hide him from the world, but I don't think it is that simple.
I think he fits the mold of "gadget QB" well in an emergency QB role the way Taysom Hill did for the Saints if he can be developed enough. But I see that more as a possible ceiling than I do the floor.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
I think he fits the mold of "gadget QB" well in an emergency QB role the way Taysom Hill did for the Saints if he can be developed enough. But I see that more as a possible ceiling than I do the floor.
Hill is part of the Saints 48 game day roster. The emergency QB dresses, but does absolutely nothing unless the medical team deems both QBs out for the game. He would have to take one of the 48 spots on game day to be used as a gadget QB.
You are confusing players already on the practice squad and those who are cut before or at the final cutdowns.
I agree. He keeps the signing bonus and there is a per diem for time spent with the team through camp. I doubt he has any guarantees above and beyond that. I also agree that if he clears waivers, we could sign him back to the practice squad. He can also elect to sign elsewhere.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.
You are confusing players already on the practice squad and those who are cut before or at the final cutdowns.
I agree. He keeps the signing bonus and there is a per diem for time spent with the team through camp. I doubt he has any guarantees above and beyond that. I also agree that if he clears waivers, we could sign him back to the practice squad. He can also elect to sign elsewhere.
I'm not the one confused, you are the one that said if he is waived he is a free agent with no NFL contract... That is inaccurate. During the waiver process, his contract follows him to the new team if they claim him off waivers. There is no negotiating, nor can he refuse to "sign a contract". He already signed the contract, he would just be playing on another team.
The rest would come if he clears waivers...THEN he becomes a free agent and can sign anywhere he pleases to the 53 man or the practice squad. Once he signs to a practice squad he can't be taken by another team for their practice squad, he would have to be signed to the 53 man roster.
If you're going to try and factor things in. Factor in they felt safe leaving him on the draft board until the sixth round and a sixth round investment was all they were willing to make for him.
Now you also have to factor in that they weren't willing to wait for the 7th round or to wait and hope to just get him as an UDFA. They spent a pick when they did to ensure they got him because they felt there was a very real likelihood they would not get him otherwise.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
Yes they did. All full well knowing that a 6th round QB selection in the draft has close to a zero percent chance of ever becoming a starter. We both know any sixth round draft pick is not a good bet to pay off well. And least of all a QB selected in the sixth round.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Lately I have been playing around with google's AI Gemini.
If you ask for specific analytical data. You get it.
So, I asked to rank the 2027 quarterback class using all the possible available data.
Dante Moore (Oregon)
Julian Sayin (Ohio State)
John Mateer (Oklahoma) — Adjusted for Healthy Baseline
Arch Manning (Texas)
Darian Mensah (Miami)
C.J. Carr (Notre Dame)
Trinidad Chambliss (Ole Miss)
Jayden Maiava (USC)
*At first Mateer was not listed in the top eight until I asked to factor in his numbers and adjust to before and after he broke the thumb on his throwing hand.
Interesting. One stat that carries heavy emphasis is throwing under pressure.
I doubt that this will be the order that ends being drafted.
Evaluating quarterback prospects through data analytics has drastically evolved over the last decade. NFL front offices have largely moved away from "box score scouting" (like total passing yards or college wins) because those stats are heavily inflated by a team’s scheme or the quality of their wide receivers.
Today, analytics departments use predictive, isolated metrics—numbers that measure how a quarterback performs when the design of the play breaks down, or how much value they generate relative to what an "average" quarterback would do in the exact same situation.
The modern NFL analytics criteria for evaluating draft prospects and predicting their potential to succeed is ranked below, from most influential/predictive to least predictive.
The NFL Analytics QB Evaluation Hierarchy 1. Advanced Efficiency & Value Metrics These are the gold standards because they correlate most strongly with future NFL success. They measure efficiency on a per-play basis rather than total volume.
EPA per Play (Expected Points Added): Measures how much a quarterback’s actions increase his team's chances of scoring on a given play. For example, a 5-yard pass on 3rd-and-4 has a massive positive EPA, while a 5-yard pass on 3rd-and-10 has a negative EPA. Teams look at how a college QB's EPA translates against high-level defenses.
CPOE (Completion Percentage Over Expected): Using tracking data, artificial intelligence calculates the probability of a pass being completed based on receiver separation, pass rush distance, and depth of throw. CPOE isolates a quarterback's actual accuracy from how "wide open" his college coach schemed the receiver. NFL.com
2. Situational Splitting (The "Noise Filters") Analytics departments will take a quarterback's total profile and strip away the easy plays to see how they perform when the playing field is leveled.
Performance Under Pressure: How does the QB perform when the pocket collapses? Passing efficiency clean-pocket metrics can be fluky, but a quarterback who maintains a stable EPA and low turnover rate under pressure is highly coveted.
Performance Outside the Structure (Off-Platform): This tracks what happens when the primary scripted play fails. Front offices track EPA on plays lasting longer than 4 seconds, where the QB must create with their legs or throw on the move.
True Scramble Rate: Teams look for a collegiate scramble rate of 7% or higher when the pocket breaks. A quarterback who can manipulate the pocket and gain first downs with his legs provides a stable analytical "floor" for an offense. Jets X-Factor
3. Deep Ball Aggression & Volatility Modern data has shown that being too safe in college is actually an analytical red flag for the NFL.
Deep Pass Attempt Rate: Analytics reveal that first-round quarterbacks who succeed in the NFL almost always threw deep (20+ air yards) on at least 15% of their college dropbacks. This is highly predictive because it proves a quarterback has the confidence, arm strength, and cognitive processing to attack professional-style vertical windows. Jets X-Factor
Turnover-Worthy Throw Rate (TWT): Tracked by data companies like PFF, this replaces raw interceptions (which can be caused by dropped passes or lucky deflections). Fascinatingly, data shows a slight positive correlation with NFL success if a college QB had a TWT rate above 3%—it means they were willing to test tight windows rather than just throwing safe checkdowns to superior college athletes. Jets X-Factor + 1
4. Adjusted Traditional Passing Metrics If teams look at standard box scores, they radically adjust them using specific mathematical weights to penalize negative plays properly.
ANY/A (Adjusted Net Yards per Pass Attempt): Far more predictive than standard passing yards. The formula heavily weights touchdowns and strictly penalizes interceptions and sacks:
Collegiate Career Completion Percentage: While scheme-dependent, historical models show that quarterbacks who fail to hit a 60% baseline over their college careers face an incredibly steep statistical uphill battle to find accuracy in the faster NFL.
5. Physical & Performance Thresholds These are treated as baseline filters rather than linear predictors. Once a quarterback clears the minimum threshold, additional points don't necessarily equal more success.
Age and Sample Size (Experience): Analytics models favor "young breakout" players (e.g., a 20-year-old dominating college) over 24-year-old "super-seniors" who took five years to break out against younger college competition.
Height & Weight Thresholds: While historical baselines required a QB to be 6'2"+, modern analytics have relaxed this due to outliers like Kyler Murray or Bryce Young. However, height remains a minor statistically significant baseline in regression models to ensure clear vision over NFL offensive lines.
The Scouting Combine (Athletic Testing): Things like the 40-yard dash or vertical jump carry the lowest predictive weight for standard quarterback success. While a fast 40-time is great for a dual-threat asset, it has almost zero statistical correlation with a prospect's ability to operate successfully from the pocket in the NFL.
The Analytical Takeaway: If an NFL front office is building a predictive draft model today, they weigh a quarterback's EPA/CPOE composite, their deep-ball intent, and their efficiency under pressure far above their physical size, 40-time, or raw college win-loss record.
Yes they did. All full well knowing that a 6th round QB selection in the draft has close to a zero percent chance of ever becoming a starter. We both know any sixth round draft pick is not a good bet to pay off well. And least of all a QB selected in the sixth round.
Posting exceptions to the rule does not change the rule.
You included Russell Wilson who was a third rounder, Kirk Cousins who was a 4th rounder and had to reach all the way back to the 1990's to even find names that do fit actual 6th round selections. You even included Purdy who was not a 6th round selection either just to try and increase your list. Here are the actual results of 6th round QB draft picks since Brady was drafted in 2000......
6th round backup selection from the 6th round.
Perennial Backups some of which were stop gap starters.....
1. Tyrod Taylor
2. Gardner Minshew
3. Tanner McKee
4. Derek Anderson
5. Bruce Gradkowski
6. Riley Leonard
6th round Clipboard Holders
7. Jeff Driskel
8. Jim Sorgi
9. Jordan Palmer
10. Curtis Painter
11. Zach Mettenberger
12. David Fales
13. Garrett Gilbert
14. Joe Webb
15. Ryan Lindley
16. Brandon Allen
17. JT O’Sullivan
18. Joe Milton
19. Sam Ehlinger
20. Jake Luton
21. Drew Henson
22. Brooks Bollinger
23. Nate Sudfeld
24. Kliff Kingsbury
25. Luke Falk
26. Rusty Smith
27. Brad Kaaya.....Never Played (No Regular-Season NFL Snaps)
28. Jake Rudock
29. Keith Null
30. Tony Pike
31. Tom Brandstater
32. Colt Brennan
33. Josh Harris
34. Dan LeFevour
35. Tajh Boyd
36. Keith Wenning
37. Josh Booty
38. Andre Woodson
39. Jeff Smoker
40. Trace McSorley
41. Josh Heupel
42. Reggie McNeal
43. Mike Teel
44. Steve Bellisari
45. Andy Hall
46. Devin Leary
47. Tanner Lee.....##Too Soon
48. Will Howard
49. Cam Miller
50. Graham Mertz
51. Kyle McCord
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Lately I have been playing around with google's AI Gemini.
If you ask for specific analytical data. You get it.
So, I asked to rank the 2027 quarterback class using all the possible available data.
Dante Moore (Oregon)
Julian Sayin (Ohio State)
John Mateer (Oklahoma) — Adjusted for Healthy Baseline
Arch Manning (Texas)
Darian Mensah (Miami)
C.J. Carr (Notre Dame)
Trinidad Chambliss (Ole Miss)
Jayden Maiava (USC)
*At first Mateer was not listed in the top eight until I asked to factor in his numbers and adjust to before and after he broke the thumb on his throwing hand.
Interesting. One stat that carries heavy emphasis is throwing under pressure.
I doubt that this will be the order that ends being drafted.
However, lots can change and I am sure will change after this season ends.
Moore was clearly the top guy based upon the data used.
My opinion which is the opposite and analytical data.
I really like Mateer. He reminds me of Baker but he is a better athlete overall. Mateer is a really good runner. Both can spin it. They are similar in personality and leadership.
They both have that grit and determination.
I am actually looking more forward to the college season which is highly unusual. Normally I pay hardly any attention to college.
However, our future quarterback is most likely going to be in the draft.
Do me a favor, if you can still open that chat. Ask why Sellers wasn't ranked in the top eight and for any specific reasons why. I would be very interested in that answer.
The main reasons draft analysts currently have him projected just outside the elite tier (often hovering as a Day 2 pick) include:
Passing Regression: While his dual-threat running ability is elite, Sellers took a noticeable step back as a pure passer. His accuracy has been hit-or-miss, and he has struggled with consistency under pressure.
Field Processing & Decision-Making: Film evaluation shows that he routinely locks onto his first read, rarely looks off safeties, and struggles with processing speed and anticipation. Against high-level SEC defenses, holding onto the ball too long and trying to force late, layered throws has led to costly turnovers.
High Ceiling, Low Floor: NFL scouts view him as a volatile "traits-over-production" prospect. While other 2027 prospects like Arch Manning, Dante Moore, and C.J. Carr showed more refined pocket mechanics and progression reading, Sellers is still considered quite raw.
The Outlook:He chose to stay at South Carolina to work under a less complicated offense geared toward boosting his stock. If he can clean up his footwork, speed up his internal clock, and cut down on the "hero ball" mistakes, his physical tools could easily rocket him back into the top-tier conversation.
1. Cameron Ward (Miami)The Analytical Edge: Ward was an analytics darling in 2024, posting an FBS-best 92.9 PFF offensive grade. His 6.3% Big-Time Throw rate proved he wasn't just a product of a safe system; he actively generated explosive, high-value plays out of structure. He combined elite volume with top-tier efficiency metrics across the board.
2. Jaxson Dart (Ole Miss)The Analytical Edge: Dart actually finished as the highest-graded pure passer in the draft class. His analytics excel due to elite downfield accuracy and highly stable metric grades when throwing from a clean pocket. His EPA per attempt on "created plays" (plays extended past the initial design) ranked near the top of the entire country.
3. Shedeur Sanders (Colorado)The Analytical Edge: Sanders owned some of the safest analytical floor metrics in the class, highlighted by a staggering 81.8% Adjusted Completion Percentage (accounting for drops) and a microscopic 1.3% Turnover-Worthy Play rate. The main anchor on his analytical profile was his high pressure-to-sack conversion rate, meaning he held onto the ball too long, but his pure distribution metrics were pristine.
4. Tyler Shough (Louisville)The Analytical Edge: While age (25) and injury history weighed down his traditional draft stock, analytics looked at his on-field efficiency in a vacuum. Shough posted a career-high 87.7 PFF passing grade in 2024. His internal clock and EPA per dropback on third downs were both highly translatable NFL traits.
5. Jalen Milroe (Alabama)The Analytical Edge: Milroe is a fascinating analytical case. His overall PFF grade was strong (87.0+ over two seasons), driven heavily by an elite rushing EPA and dynamic deep-ball metrics. However, his intermediate-depth accuracy and standard success-rate metrics under pressure dragged his ranking below the top three.
6. Dillon Gabriel (Oregon)The Analytical Edge: Gabriel is a massive size outlier (under 6-foot), which hurt his draft slot. However, his data mastery is undeniable: he secured PFF passing grades of 80.0 or higher in five of his six college seasons. He ranked near the top of college football in quick-game EPA, completion percentage over expectation (CPOE), and post-snap diagnostic speed.
7. Will Howard (Ohio State)The Analytical Edge: Howard benefited heavily from operating an efficient offense, putting up a strong 79.6% Adjusted Completion Percentage. What elevated his analytical profile into the top eight was his 96.3 deep passing grade, meaning when he did push the ball 20+ yards downfield, it was exceptionally accurate and safe from defenders.
8. Riley Leonard (Notre Dame)The Analytical Edge: Leonard edges into the top eight largely because of his dual-threat metrics. His rushing success rate and EPA on designed quarterback runs were elite. While his throw-by-throw passing consistency and standard CPOE numbers were lower than the pure pocket passers above him, his overall expected points contribution per game remained highly competitive.An Analytical Takeaway: Notice the contrast between this list and traditional media mock drafts. Players like Tyler Shough and Dillon Gabriel rank much higher analytically because metrics evaluate efficiency per play without punishing a player for being older or undersized.
Lately I have been playing around with google's AI Gemini.
If you ask for specific analytical data. You get it.
So, I asked to rank the 2027 quarterback class using all the possible available data.
Dante Moore (Oregon)
Julian Sayin (Ohio State)
John Mateer (Oklahoma) — Adjusted for Healthy Baseline
Arch Manning (Texas)
Darian Mensah (Miami)
C.J. Carr (Notre Dame)
Trinidad Chambliss (Ole Miss)
Jayden Maiava (USC)
*At first Mateer was not listed in the top eight until I asked to factor in his numbers and adjust to before and after he broke the thumb on his throwing hand.
Interesting. One stat that carries heavy emphasis is throwing under pressure.
I doubt that this will be the order that ends being drafted.
Ummm... where is LaNorris Sellers??
Where is Brendan Sorsby?
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
I did read that at the Manning Academy CJ Carr was way above all the others at the Camp according to Todd McShay. The Camp had Arch Manning and many of the other top prospects.
McShay said his footwork and mechanics were flawless and he was super accurate.
I could be wrong but I think Sorsby will end up being really good. He will have a year of professional therapy. He has a strong family who support him. He knows what he has to do.
He is a gifted athlete with a bag full of quarterback tools.
Young people make mistakes. Some like Manziel stay as a mistake. Others can turn it around and become the best version of who they are.
I did read that at the Manning Academy CJ Carr was way above all the others at the Camp according to Todd McShay. The Camp had Arch Manning and many of the other top prospects.
McShay said his footwork and mechanics were flawless and he was super accurate.
I could be wrong but I think Sorsby will end up being really good. He will have a year of professional therapy. He has a strong family who support him. He knows what he has to do.
He is a gifted athlete with a bag full of quarterback tools.
Young people make mistakes. Some like Manziel stay as a mistake. Others can turn it around and become the best version of who they are.
CJ Carr is probably my favorite prospect, but inner circles are saying he plans to stay in school until 2028. If he stays, great chance he will be the #1 overall pick. Manning gets points just for being a Manning. This is going to be a crowded QB class, even if Carr stays in school.
I did read that at the Manning Academy CJ Carr was way above all the others at the Camp according to Todd McShay. The Camp had Arch Manning and many of the other top prospects.
McShay said his footwork and mechanics were flawless and he was super accurate.
I could be wrong but I think Sorsby will end up being really good. He will have a year of professional therapy. He has a strong family who support him. He knows what he has to do.
He is a gifted athlete with a bag full of quarterback tools.
Young people make mistakes. Some like Manziel stay as a mistake. Others can turn it around and become the best version of who they are.
All I know is that college football is going to be a lot of fun tracking how these QBs perform over the course of the season.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
I could be wrong but I think Sorsby will end up being really good. He will have a year of professional therapy. He has a strong family who support him. He knows what he has to do.
He is a gifted athlete with a bag full of quarterback tools.
Young people make mistakes. Some like Manziel stay as a mistake. Others can turn it around and become the best version of who they are.
He had that same strong family when his gambling was going on too.
And some team will take that "flip a coin" gamble. I just hope it isn't the Browns.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
![[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]](https://i.ibb.co/fkjZc8B/Bull-Dawg-Sig-smaller.jpg)
