DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum What If?

1. If Watson wins the starting job and earned it then he deserves to be the starter. If your on the 53 then best player plays.

2. If Watson starts the season and things go bad then Sanders will again get a shot. If Watson and the team play well then Sanders needs to learn how to be #2.

3. If Watson plays good enough for an extension, then yes.

4. He would clearly be the #2 QB on the roster and if Watson and the team does well they will not be in position to draft another QB so if Sanders continues to develop and does not cause drama he can be #2. Injuries happen how long he stay #2 or when he gets another chance to start that will depend on his performance at that time.

5. If the team is bad and out of the running by the trade deadline I think Garrett will go for a ransom that the FO will use to acquire a new QB in next years draft.

That's simply too much to wade through. So I'll keep this short.

First this is a contract year for DW. His future depends on playing well. The gravy train won't be flowing to his door next year if he doesn't play well this season. If after flopping around like a fish washed up on the beach for four years he plays lights out this season, it will only confirm to me that he is who I thought he was.

Secondly, DW never wanted to be here. He had a no trade clause and took the Browns off the list if teams he was willing to be traded to until Haslam backed up the Brinks truck. He came here just for the cash to a destination he didn't want to be in you can bet your ass he's looking to get away from here now.

There are 31 other teams in the league. None of this is as simple as the Browns just giving DW an extension.

I agree on all your points, but I do think that just because 1 happens doesn't necessarily mean that 3 will happen. I think the likelihood of 1 happening is FAR higher than 3.

1. Watson would have to be pretty bad to not beat out Shedeur.

2. We may try to trade Shedeur depending upon what we see from the new kid. We still have that other guy from Oregon, too, don't we?

3. Berry (or was it Haslam?) has already stated publicly that nothing says this can't happen.

4. This all depends on what Shedeur shows relative to all the others, and if we can find a buyer.

5. If Myles was leaving, it would have happened in the last year. I think he is here for the long haul, now.

No matter how well DW plays I would part ways with him at the end of the season. I want us to develop a young QB and make him our starter for many years be it Shedeur, Green, Gabriel or a guy we draft in 2027, most likely scenario. We aren't known for developing QB's, but I feel with Monken we have a better chance than what we've had here before. Just cut the ties with DW and move on.

If Watson wins the starting spot, play him. He has been paid very well and is on the roster. If he is the best on the roster, make him earn some of the money he got. Shaduer would be the back=up, and Green can be #3. Sanders sitting and learning for another year would be beneficial to all. I don't think there is any scenario where Watson is resigned.

The most likely scenario is of course DW winning the job. It’s no secret I have no real faith in Sanders. There is a very decent shot that DW plays well. As mentioned, it’s a contract year and he has a lot more talent around him. This is a team that’s a little more than a QB away. If not this year, next. That assumes our revamped OL is middle of the pack and our WR’s and TE’s are indeed significantly upgraded.

So let’s say he plays well. Like top 10. Then we’re likely going to the playoffs and who knows what from there. (Yea I said what I said).

And then of course we’re looking at extending in that scenario. We’d just have to. A good QB is just too valuable. An hilariously awful situation to be sure. And… there’s a solid chance we offer him a deal and he walks anyway. In fact, I would almost guarantee he leaves if he has other legit starter options. Even if it means making less. I don’t even think it’d be about the Browns really, it’s about escaping his past, about leaving the last 5 years far behind, getting away from the stink. So wouldn’t that just be the cherry on top. It’s also no secret that I really have no love for DW. It will always be hard to root for him. So if he plays great AND he sticks around, it’s gonna be… interesting.

Sanders is never going to be a viable long term starter. I’m willing to put money on that. So.. assuming DW moseys we’re back to next years draft. And a late pick. So moving miles becomes a very real possibility in that scenario. In fact, after this years draft, that was my first thought about next years draft. It’s pretty much the only pocket ace we have left to get up high. If we’re where I think we’ll be, next year it’s going to be critical to solve for the QB. That’s when this whole thing comes together or falls apart.

J/C

If Watson wins out, you play him.

I really like Myles Garrett, but if it is the only avenue to getting the QB the Browns desire, then I have to look at historical perspective.

The top pass rushers in NFL History:
Bruce Smith, 19 years, 0 Super Bowl wins
Reggie White, 16 years, 1 Super Bowl win with Brett Favre as QB in 1997
Lawrence Taylor, 13 years, 2 Super Bowl wins with Phil Sims QB for both in 1987 and 1991
Deacon Jones, 14 years, 0 Super Bowl wins
Demarcus Ware, 12 years, 1 Super Bowl win and Vonn Miller (See below) were on the same Super Bowl winning team with Peyton Manning in 2016
Vonn Miller, 15 years, 2 Super Bowl wins, the second was 2022 with Matthew Stafford as his QB AND Aaron Donald.
Aaron Donald, 10 years, 1 Super Bowl win, with Matthew Stafford as his QB in 2022.
Julius Peppers, 17 years, 0 Super Bowl wins
Michael Strahan, 15 years, 1 Super Bowl win, Eli Manning as his QB in 2007, the last year of his career.
Kevin Greene 15 years, 0 Super Bowl wins
Chris Doleman, 15 years, 0 Super Bowl wins
Jason Taylor, 15 years, 0 Super Bowl wins
JJ Watt, 12 years, 0 Super Bowl wins

Arguably the 14 best pass rushers in the history of the league and they have 8 SB wins between them, 2 of which came in the same game and also (2) each from two players. They split these 8 wins among 5 indisputable franchise QBs (2 with Stafford). No pass rusher from this list has a Super Bowl win without a franchise QB. Half of the list has zero Super Bowl wins.

My point is, Myles Garrett is the other guy on this list above, he has 9 years under his belt and zero Super Bowls and zero franchise QBs that he has played with.


Now, we could do the same exercise with the top 10 QBs in history

Tom Brady, 23 years, 7 Super Bowl wins
Joe Montana, 15 years, 4 Super Bowl wins
Peyton Manning, 17 years, 2 Super Bowl wins
Johnny Unitas, 17 years, 1 Championship and 1 Super Bowl wins
Drew Brees, 20 years, 1 Super Bowl win
Dan Marino, 17 years, 0 Super Bowl wins
Roger Staubach, 11 years, 2 Super Bowl wins
John Elway, 19 years, 2 Super Bowl wins
Aaron Rodgers, 21 years, 1 Super Bowl win
Brett Favre, 20 years, 1 Super Bowl win

So, the top 10 QBs have won 21 Super Bowls and another NFL Championship game...Only one, Dan Marino, doesn't have a SB win. I could keep going, the rest of the top 25 QBs of all time, all but 2-3 have Super Bowl or Championship wins. MOST of the top QBs have won a championship.

I would have to give the nod to franchise QB being the most important position to find in the NFL. That being said, being a franchise QB doesn't guarantee a Super Bowl either... Eli and Phil both have (2) Super Bowl wins, but they aren't in the HOF. Teams can do half the work as well..., but you almost always need to have a better than average guy behind center to have a fighting chance.

IF they deem a QB worthy of that projection, I would have to say, they need to do whatever necessary to get that guy. If that means trading Myles Garrett to do it, then so be it.

Now, if the top team in the draft is unwilling to trade and takes that QB, don't just trade Garrett for the sake of drafting a QB. At some point, they might need to make another leap of faith like they did with Watson. I just hope they look at more than ONE YEAR of stats when choosing whether or not that player is worth a trade. It was definitely the person that made that trade fail, not the ability that he showed on film for one season.

What Ifs, they are never ending. What if Jesus comes tomorrow, NFL won't matter. I hope we never trade Miles Garrett, he's been a Super Brown, except for his driving.

Again, what if Watson lights it up with our new coach and offensive receivers. What if our new O line opens holes enough so our running backs run well and they protect the QB enough to new O weapons....we could make the playoffs, who knows......Go Browns!!!!

Super Bowl 50, I think, is the counter argument.

Von Miller was the MVP. Yes, technically Peyton Manning was the Super Bowl winning QB, but he wasn't height of his powers Peyton Manning at that point.

It's also kind of interesting how many top QBs only have one Super Bowl win. Elway kind of rode Terrell Davis and defense to one of his.

Brady is more the exception than the rule. And he's the one that went in the 6th round.

I think having a good enough QB with a great team around him is a more realistic Super Bowl path than making the team worse for the chance to potentially have a (maybe) great QB.

Obviously there is value in the QB, but I think Myles' value to the entire defense is somewhat being overlooked. Without Myles, I don't think our defense works. Putting a rookie in a shootout every week is not necessarily a recipe for success.

I'd be focused on other avenues than Myles, if possible. Like only last resort, every stone turned over, and he demands out.

Is Brady the best of all time because he's Brady, or was Brady the best off all time because he was on good teams because he didn't maximize his contracts? Would Brady have been Brady on the Hue Jackson era Browns?

Yes he would. Marcia Brady

I don't think Tom Brady or Peyton Manning are in this draft... Though, no one really knew Peyton Manning was going to be Peyton Manning when he was taken #1 overall and obviously NO ONE knew Tom Brady was going to be the GOAT.

I think you are missing my point though. It just points out the overall importance of position strength vs success. A team can win with a franchise QB and second tier defensive players. The Browns have proven time and again, they can't win with future HOF defensive players and the lack of a franchise QB.

This draft has the potential to have a couple of Drake Maye/Justin Herbert QBs and then a few Baker Mayfield/ Sam Darnold guys, maybe a poor man's Lamar Jackson in John Mateer, but that's a real stretch. The closest guy to Lamar right now is currently 4th string on the Browns depth chart. THAT is the goal we are shooting for here, not Tom Brady.

Your Drake Maye capable type guys are:

Arch Manning, Top prospect, with a lot of high expectations tatoo'd on his Manning size forehead.
Dante Moore, Speak on him below
Jayden Maiava, one of my favorite's to watch prospects. Speak on him below.

Your Baker Mayfield capable type guys are:
Julian Sayin, speak on im below
John Mateer, Like Sayin, he is on the small side. BUT, he can get out of a lot of bad situations with his footwork.
Rocco Becht, Highly productive player at TCU that transferred to Penn State for the exposure. We will see if it pays off. He is undersized though.
LaNorris Sellers, Needs to take the big leap everyone expected in 2025
Darian Mensah, transferring from Duke to Miami will give him the high profile test we all need to see. IF that production transfers to Miami and he leads them deep into the playoff, he will catapult himself into top 5 contention and might come out this year. If he doesn't, he has another year of eligibility and will probably go back to improve his draft stock.

Then there are a bunch of guys we really want to see how they progress in 2027 like:
Nico Iamaleave
Avery Johnson
DJ Lagway
Sam Leavitt
CJ Carr
Drew Mestemaker
Drake Lindsey
Gunner Stockton
Josh Hoover
This last tier has question marks all over the place.. One year starters, transfers, not showing progress like expected in 2025, etc.


Currently my top prospects are:
Arch Manning, He is at the top of the production food chain at yards per game and TDs per game. However, his accuracy in terms of completion percentage is way off the mark. He must improve... if he does, he is the #1 overall draft pick

Julian Sayin, He is right behind Manning in production, but has done it with fewer passes and much higher accuracy. I'm not crazy about is size. Size has become more important to me over the years. If he doesn't hit 6'1", I don't think I am as interested any more.

Jayden Maiava, He actually checks most of my boxes, but he has made some really poor decisions. If he cleans that part of his game up, he might go top 5.

Dante Moore, the consensus #1/#2, he is extremely consistent. He should step in to a role at the next level and give you 12-16 rankings every year. I just haven't seen a guy that is going to crack into the top tier level. He is very good though and will make a long term starter where ever he goes.

I'm going to throw in Darian Mensah. He could be the surprise of the 2027 season..


Then the two that have me the most intrigued are CJ Carr and Drew Mestemaker. Both young, RS Sophomore's. Both could end up being in the running for the top QB in the NCAA in 2027, but still stay in school for another year to improve draft position.

It's going to be a fun college season. We have a lot of players to study during the season based on what our projected needs are.

I think another What if question to ask is what if Deshaun Watson throw's for >4,000 yards and the defense remain around a top 5 defense. Then what is this team's ceiling?

Playoff wins... That's what Watson was brought here for. He just never cared enough to be that guy. He was de-incentivized with the guaranteed contract. Well, now he is re-incentivized with it being a contract year. It could happen, if Monken lets it.

This could be a very special season if Watson plays up to potential. That is great and I look forward to having fun watching a team that wins. As soon as the season is over, reality sets in and we will then need to figure out who the QB for the next 3-10 years will be, because Watson will get a contract somewhere else and be gone from Cleveland. He might not even stop to clean his locker out. The man has zero loyalty to anyone other than Deshaun Watson. I pity his wife. I'm sure she loves money and is happy with what ever choices he makes, otherwise she wouldn't be with him...train's going off the rails here.. He will not be in a Browns uniform to start the 2027 season.

But, it will be a fun year, if the Browns are winning. I would take that over a tank year for a QB coming out in the 2027 draft.

I don't know enough to debate you about the QB's that will be entering the draft next season but I am a big OSU fan. The only thing I try to keep in mind is that Sayin was a red shirt freshman. I think he performed extremely well considering that fact. This upcoming season will go a long way in telling me at least what that kid may have moving forward. He certainly looked promising but as first year starter where he goes from there is a mystery. But hey, a lot of these kids are young and will continue to develop. Where they go from where they are is something way over my pay grade. I guess that's why NFL GM's make the big bucks and I don't.

He has (what GoogleAI describes) an "uncontrolled gambling addiction".

Calvin Ridley was suspended indefinitely (reinstated after a year) for gambling on NFL games (non-Falcons games, if memory serves).

So that means they could probably get him with a later round pick then, right?

In all honesty, I'd be fine throwing a 4th or 5th at him (if it's true that he's a legit 1st-round talent). Maybe a 4th is too high because you can still find value in that round.

The way I see it, we are still looking for a starting QB. I'm fine with us going after a guy that carries risk, but the cost has to be something we can move on from and not feel too much pain.

What I can say is that the scenario you laid out isn't an "everything is equal" situation. I'm not sure I would support throwing my hat into the ring to draft anyone with a huge gambling addiction that he has displayed and that is known. But if so it wouldn't be to a team like the Browns. Every team has their own situation and the moves they make in such a regard should certainly consider where they are at the time.

You certainly have a point about the Browns still being in need of a QB. I mean until you know you have a QB you need one. I don't believe anyone can dispute that. But the circumstances other than that which the Browns are currently in would be a worse case scenario to bring a QB with "issues" into.

First let's address what the best possible scenario would be. A team that is pretty much complete looking for a QB of the future a few years down the road. That team would have a well established coach with a well established system who at least already competes for their division on an annual basis. They wouldn't have a bunch of young QB's already on the roster. If a problem with a young QB arises it wouldn't be a total disruption.

The Browns are in the exact opposite position. As of today I see what I consider a list of obstacles that make this not a logical situation for the Browns. We have new HC in his first season as a HC. The offense has been pretty much a train wreck to this point. Monkin has a huge job ahead of him installing a new system.

Secondly the Browns have a bevy of young QB's already on the roster. They already added one in this past draft. I understand they could cut one of them, or maybe even two of them but that still leaves you with nothing but first and second year QB's on your roster other than watson.

So how can that be handled? As much as I hate the idea of watson even wearing a Browns jersey much less leading the Browns on the field, I understand it if you totally ignore the moral implications. He is the only QB on the roster that has started in more than one system. He is the only one on the roster to have 50 starts in his NFL career. How he will perform on the field is anyone's guess but it would make sense to conclude it would be easier to teach him a new system than kids who have virtually little to no experience in the league.

It would mean the Browns would have two rookie QB's on the roster with a first time HC installing a new system.

That just doesn't seem like a set of circumstances where drafting him would make any sense.

I was going to say 4th round pick. I think we have several in next years draft. Those picks won't do much to budge the needle in any effort to move up in the 1st round if that is what we end up trying to do.

I do believe that there are two ways to look at that.

One is if you have a player on your roster that shows such an issue. That player is under contract and you must decide whether to support your employee or not.

The second way to look at it is do you draft a player onto your team that is known to already have such an issue. Do you choose to take on an issue you don't already have?

I think Sorsby is worth taking a shot at with a 3rd round pick. He does have the tools, and he looks better than what we now have on the roster minus the experience. A gambling addiction is serious and has to be dealt with properly. I don't think it's as bad as a drug or alcohol addiction a history of domestic abuse cases and some other issues we've had to deal with. All of those addictions are serious and need to be addressed by professionals ASAP.

He took the "gamble" of throwing his life away already. It has already cost him millions upon millions of dollars. Why would a team who just drafted a young QB in this years draft and two QB's in last years draft, draft yet another QB? Especially one of questionable character?


Yes he will. Most likely by a team with a stable starting QB looking for a future QB a few years down the road, with stability and experience at the head coaching position and one that is already competitive. One who has been in the same system for years that can be taught by not only the coaching staff but the QB room as a whole. Not where you have a first year HC tryng to teach the entire O a new system. It seems you are ignoring the Browns circumstances as if all teams are created equal.


That's why taking such a gamble is a risky move even on a great team. And do you think the Braves would have signed him if they knew he was using PED's and this might be an issue? If the Braves had been given a warning before hand I doubt they ever would have signed him to begin with, do you? Much less an NFL team fumbling to find an identity with a first year HC and a bevy of first and second year QB's on their roster and drafting yet another first year QB who has lit up the warning sign already.

It isn't as if he is already under contract and and a Brown where the team has to decide whether they will support a player or not. It's deciding if you wish to add a player to the roster learning a new system who has already shown a reason to be concerned.

We can see how it turned out the last time the Browns threw caution to the wind before finding out how complicated things could be and how that story would end.

The way I see it is that you can still get starter-caliber players in the third round.... I think with where our roster is right now (still needing young talent and few starters that have their spots locked down), we can't really afford to burn a shot at a starter-level player for a guy who hasn't been able to get out of his own way.

I know. Thanks for the clarification if I was unclear. My point was we have the pick to give since we have 1-2 more in that round.

Having a total of four QB's on the roster, two being in their second year and two being rookies makes no sense. Even if you cut one, you aren't going to cut Sanders or the kid they just drafted. So that would be two rookie QB's and one second year QB on a roster with a new HC installing a new system. I mean just a week or two ago people were claiming that Green is the best thing since sliced bread. How do you expect Monkin can teach both watson and Sanders the new system which will be your starter and backup in some order and teach two rookie QB's the new system at the same time?

That's what makes this case different and makes no sense. I mean when you look at it on a case by case basis.

You still didn't explain how you think it would be reasonably executed in trying to teach four QB's a new system at the same time while having to teach the entire offense that system as three of those QB's would be rookies or second year QB's. That simply doesn't sound reasonably feasible.

If anything, the Browns should sign some QB out there that may not even be someone the Browns would consider worth playing in the regular season who knows and is familiar with Monkin's system who can help work with and help teach the system to this bevy of young QB's that are already on the roster. That's something they don't have that wouldn't cost much to get. If only until the final roster cuts before the season starts. That would be adding a valuable and needed tool to the toolbox for peanuts.

But I am glad you took a closer look at his gambling addiction issue. It seems at this point we both agree the Browns should steer clear of him. As I stated earlier, if anyone should take a shot with him it should be a well established team that has a strong, established coaching staff who could easily deal with any problems that may arise instead of a team currently in flux.

...Plus, we're winning the Super Bowl, so ours will be lower anyways....

After reading how far into gambling Sorsby was I would pass on him too. We've had enough drama over the years.

Sorsby would be best suited to go somewhere like Green Bay and sit behind an established QB for multiple years. Learn while he gets his life straight.

I think the bottom line in the QB battle between Watson and Sanders is this. Watson must be heads and shoulders better in the end to win the starting QB job. If it is close or even Sanders will get the nod. I actually expect this result will be the end result myself. If Watson wins the battle, he worked himself into great shape knowing that this year was his last chance. I do not see a downside if that is the case. Watson worked to get healthy and worked on his craft to win the job. If it is close or even, then Sanders leads the team. What I have really liked hearing about Sanders is the reports he never left Berea this entire off season and has stayed focused on improving as a player. Bernie Kosar has actually endorsed Sanders after spending time with him and watching him at OTA's. I also see things like the Browns schedule release video that highlight their main players like Garrett, Ward, Schwesinger, and Sanders was used in that video. That does show what the club thinks of him. He was also in the Todd Monken introduction clips released by the team. I think the only way you do not see Sanders on the field this year is if Watson is really ballin and if that is the case this team could be contenders in the AFC North in 2026 and not in position to nab a franchise QB in 2027 draft. If Watson and/or Sanders are not playing well by the trade deadline Garrett will more than likely get moved to add draft capitol to help acquire a 2027 QB in the 2027 draft. The Browns will not waste the 2026 season on Watson. He either wins or is benched early like Joe was last year. At that point it will be Sanders turn and he really has until trade deadline to show who he is. If Sanders wins the job outright, he has until trade deadline either way. I do not think Haslam or Monken are thinking 2027 draft at this point they want to win. Start losing and their thoughts will change quickly.

Since this is a 'What if?' topic ---- here's my what if ----

Watson wins and continues to win throughout the season, Sanders continues to backup.

Watson flops Sanders leads us to playoff.

Through the season Green continues to improve his release, footing, etc. gets into a few games late season and shows he might be the next QB.

Do we still talk about drafting a QB or consider Sanders or Green the QB?

It way to early to continue talking next QB draft, IMO

No, we stop talking about drafting a QB in next years draft and actually draft one. Talking about drafting a top shelf QB and not having done it is why we are where we are now.

Well, I think this directly relates to, what if the Browns trade Myles Garrett? What would everyone be willing to consider "acceptable" to lose a Myles Garrett trade? The rumors are flying this morning that both the Rams and Eagle have called the Browns and made some significant offers.

Rumor is:
Rams have offered a Ricky Williams level trade

As a reminder, that looked like this:
1999 first round pick (12th overall)
1999 third round pick (71st overall)
1999 fourth round pick (107th overall)
1999 fifth round pick (144th overall)
1999 sixth round pick (179th overall)
1999 seventh round pick (218th overall)
2000 first round pick (2nd overall) **we must EXPECT this pick to be mid to late 20's, or even 31 or 32. The only way it is lower is if Stafford gets injured early in the season. He has had a long history if injuries.
2000 third round pick (64th overall) Again, probably going to be closer to 96 than 65.
That was for the 4th overall pick of the draft.

The Eagles supposedly have offered A.J. Browns along with 2027 first round and 2028 first round picks.

Here's the thing, we haven't heard much from Myles as he has spent most of the off season in Asia. For all we know, the day after Schwartz resigned, he might have demanded a trade. The Browns could have told him no, to appease him, but will listen to offers until they get one that makes sense to them.

IF they trade Myles, I think it is very telling in what Monken has evaluated up to this point in the QB room. Myles will never be more valuable than right now. If they feel confident they are going to need to draft a QB, I am sure that Berry would value the right trade over keeping a single player that just turned 30 last December. He PROBABLY has another few years of monster Myles, but after that dreaded 30, you never know.

Personally, I think a Rams offer would look closer to:
2027 First and Second
2028 First
2029 First

That would probably get it done for me.

My thought process on this is that I have endured what trading away your future looks like. IF they could get a trade like that done, they should be able to maneuver into a viable spot to get one of the QBs coming out, without damaging their entire future. They could use the Rams future to get it done.

If they could trade

2027 First, Rams First and Second
2028 Rams First.

They could come out of the draft with one of their top candidates and still have their entire future intact, including an extra first in 2029 to go along with that QB.

I think a Myles sacrifice would be worth that type of deal.

I have no interest in an A.J. Brown and two picks from the Eagles. Not enough to distance our relinquishment of our future and we now have a lot of potential in the WR room. I don't think a 29 year old AJ Brown elevates the offense enough to justify losing Garrett.

The Rams are looking at their immediate future with Stafford's window closing soon. They want to load up as much as possible to try to win trophies between now and his contract that has him in LA for the next two seasons. Myles Garrett contract on the other hand would keep him in LA through the 2030 season.. A year removed from the final first rounder they would give up for him.

Again, I think this comes down to how disgruntled Myles Garrett is. I didn't think much of his absence until Monken revealed the other day that he hasn't even talked to the top player on the roster yet. I think that is telling. If Garrett goes, what stops them from moving on from Denzel Ward, who could fetch another 2027 first round pick as well.

I think Myles absence is more about his current intimate relationship status than it is about his relationship with the Browns. Plus, I think Myles believes he can get more done on his own than what they are allowed to do at these voluntary OTAs. As far as I've heard, the defensive front is being asked to do the same things as last year. I could be mistaken, but that's the impression I get.

I think the Rams are more likely to be picking 32nd in the next three drafts (even more so with Myles) than picking in the top 10, so I don't see them as that attractive of a trade partner.

I'd also like to see more of the potential QB draft class before going all in on one.

It isn't about his not being at OTA's, that has become normal for him. It's about the fact he never talked to Monken after he was hired.

As for the Rams, it goes as far as Stafford's health goes. In 2022 when he only played 9 games due to injury, he had 10 TDs along with 9 INTs and the Rams finished 5-12. It could go down hill fast if one year older means his back is that much worse.

Unless the Browns get a lot out of Watson, they might not need a high pick from the Rams to help them move up....

I believe there's a difference in getting "a QB" verses getting one of or possibly one of the two QB's you actually believe in and want. Drafting somewhere between 4th and 6th in next years draft may not be enough to accomplish that even if that happens. What I wouldn't want to see happen is the Browns end up being in a situation where they feel cornered into drafting a QB just to draft a QB by being stuck into drafting the 3rd or 4th QB in the draft out of desperation and need.

It's true that they have to hit on the QB they draft no matter which one they draft. But at the same time, when attempting to address the franchise QB position and using such a high investment, you don't want to end up with a participation trophy.

My counter to that is, I'm waiting to see the growth of the QBs this season. As of right now, I have as many as 7 QBs that are high possibility draft commits that would have been the #1 draft pick the past 3 drafts.

2026 Fernando Mendoza
2025 Cam Ward
2024 Caleb Williams

2023 was Trevor Lawrence and he could arguably be in the talk with any of the 2027 prospects...

However, with the previous (3) years, I could see the following candidates being rated higher than any of the #1 overall picks:

Arch Manning, it is inevitable
Dante Moore. Had he came out this year, it's possible he would have been taken before Mendoza. Another year of improvement could cement that rating argument
Julian Sayin. If he improves AT ALL in 2027, he will be in the talks for the #1 overall pick this draft despite his size deficiency.
CJ Carr could vault himself into the #1 overall talk if the Irish go deep in the playoffs.
Drew Mestemaker has been a stud at North Texas. If it translates to Oklahoma State and he prepels them out of football purgatory, he will also be argued as the the top guy.

Those are my probable top 5 and can arguably be talked about as further ahead than the previous (3) #1 overall picks before 2027 season even happens. If they have the seasons many are predicting, it will be hard to argue for any of them being higher rated when they came out of school.

Now to add to that, Jayden Maiava has shown a lot already. If his decision making takes a leap, he could leap any or all of these 5 guys right to the top. Then, John Mateer, Rocco Becht and Darian Mensah have all put themselves into position to improve their draft stock drastically if their decisions to move up in competition to top schools improve what they have already put on film.

This is lining up to be an epic draft of proportions we have never seen before.

I'm not arguing your comment in any way. It is usually not beneficial to "accept" the 3rd, 4th or worse choice at any position, let alone QB. If all the stars align though, we are in a position to see so many QBs that will have people arguing who is even the best one coming out and deserving of the #1 overall pick. Not out of need, but because of their actual talent level.

Sayin is one of the keys here... Manning has the pedigree, the optimal measurements for success and Dante Moore is right there with him. Sayin could be the best of the best, but still drop to the 3rd overall pick only because he measures at 6'1" instead of 6'3"-4".

If the Browns ended up in the 6th pick.. Moving up to the #3 pick might be very doable, depending on who is picking 4th and 5th.

So many dominoes to fall. If the Raiders are the #1 overall pick again, they will probably be LOOKING to move down. If the Titans and/or Giants are still in the top 5 draft picks, there may be a lot of teams to trade with.

Obviously this is just conversation fodder at this point, way too much information to fill in between now and April 2027. I'm just giving some information as to why taking the 3rd or 4th QB in 2027 may have a drastically different meaning than it ever has in the history of the league.

That's fine and that can be debated to death. The thing is it's quite rare for any team not to have a specific QB target in mind if they're choosing in the top 5 which between our record and the Rams pick is what I'm sure they're hoping for. Possibly two choices at the most. It's hard to imagine an "insert name here" scenario.

Coaches and organizations have a scheme in mind they will be running and certain QB's fit that mold much better than others. They evaluate varying strengths and weaknesses according to the tools they feel are most valuable.

The Declaration of Independence doesn't say that all QB's are created equal.

That's simply not the way NFL draft boards are assembled.

There certainly are a bevy of possibilities depending now how this college season plays out.

What I can add is that there isn't a Lamar Jackson in this draft. So if you are wanting to drill it down to Monken's "scheme", that guy isn't in this draft. They are all conventional QBs. A few can scramble and use their feet to gain first downs/TDs, but they aren't 1,000 yard rushers. If you want to talk about the closest to a dual threat guy with traditional size, you are looking at LaNorris Sellers. If size doesn't matter, you can start talking John Mateer.

If you aren't talking about that... then there is absolutely no way to know what they are going to pound the table for, so we might as well not talk about it.

What I am talking about is looking at their overall player worth. I would think that a team would want the best overall, not if he runs better than others, but has a deficiency in passing. If you get the best player, you need to have the best coordinator to bend the offense around him.

I get there is going to be a pecking order... That doesn't mean a team won't have 6 QBs in their top 6-8 prospects on their board. If they are the best players, they are the best players. Adding the QB position to the equation and it is even more pronounced.

We will have to agree to disagree. I don't see a team saying, "There are six good QB prospects. Just give me one of those guys". If there is it will be the first time in my life I've ever seen it.

That is EXACTLY what I am saying. This draft class is showing signs of being something no one has ever seen before, I don't care how old you are. It could be historic. I am generally very hard on QBs coming out of college. This class could break all records and change the landscape of the NFL.

Obviously it is too early to make any real statements, but it isn't just me that is recognizing this probable draft class, it's everywhere. Everyone is talking about it. It just happens to be during a time when the Browns need a QB worse than just about every team in the NFL.

Typically if a QB is a first round grade, they get elevated to a top ten pick. We are realistically looking at a class that could have 5 or more QBs, not just with a first round grade, but rated AND ranked as top ten players in the draft. There will obviously be some guys that will be argued as being rated higher, like Jeremiah Smith, but the QBs could dominate the rankings because they are that good, not just because they are QBs.

It realistically could have 5, It realistically could have one or none.

I don't know that they are all that good. I think evaluators think that they could be that good. They could also regress, get hurt, just not develop as expected, develop a gambling addiction, or any number of random detrimental things. They could all (most aren't seniors) decide to stay in school and be big man on campus for longer. College is fun. The NFL is work, and now they can get paid excessively to do either one.

Nussmeier, Allar, and Klubnik were projected to potentially go high before last season. So were Sellers and Moore.

You just never know how its going to play out.

This is all also true. I'm not arguing that it WILL be that, just that it has the college football world very excited for the upcoming season.

History has told us that your post will be closer to reality, but I don't recall a year with so much potential in draft eligible prospects.

Well, it has been our Super Bowl since the return...

It doesn't mean that another option couldn't present itself outside the realm of the draft...or one of these guys on the roster can't somehow overnight become a franchise guy.

But.... Watson leaving in 2027 adds a great deal to the cap in 2027 and 2028 still.. so, going through the draft, with that rookie cap scale is much easier to maneuver than finding a free agent or trade scenario for a veteran. It is the best option for cap reasons for sure in 2027.


Here's the thing, a lot will depend on where we end up at the end of the season.

Since Baker and pre-Baker, it was inevitable that the Browns were going to go through at least (3) QBs in a season. If that happens again in 2026, then we will have a top 10 draft pick, more likely top 5. If we have a top 5 pick.. There is a better than real chance that the Raiders or Titans end up with the #1 overall pick. Both of which have their QB of the future. Browns will need to get in front of the Dolphins, Jets, Cardinals to get their guy. Right now, if they are in that top 6 range, they should be able to get to the #1 overall spot without mortgaging their future like they did with Watson. If they are NOT in the that top 6 range, hopefully that means the Sanders stepped into the role and all this is moot.

Now, the scenario where Miami or Arizona are that top spot.. well, then you have to assess where you are with all the prospects. If you have a clear cut winner, they might still be willing to move, depending on where the Browns are so that they can still get a QB, but also have extra assets to help that QB succeed.

In other words, no one knows where we will be leading up to the 2027 draft, but yes, I agree, they probably have a lot riding on that draft specifically.

If that's the case, then fantastic. I swear I've heard this at one point or another about the last 2 draft classes, though.

What it seems you're arguing is that you think this QB class may very well be historic by leaps and bounds. I do admire your exuberance. What I've learned over many years is that these so called "draft gurus" and media types all have a story to sell. It's in their best financial interest to keep people reading and clicking on their links. And nothing generates more interest than QB's.

As a recent example I present to you Shedeur Sanders. #firstroundgrade

I don't know where from. The 2026 draft class has been talked about for two years about how it is going to be one of the deepest, but starless drafts in a long time. That was more about having 2nd round ratings into the 3rd round and 3rd round ratings going in the 4th round.. But, there were only about 20 or so first round ratings. It definitely was talking overall players though, not QBs. It was debated whether or not Cam Ward was a legitimate #1 overall pick.. that's about it. Then there was a lot of talk about Sanders being a first round grade, but there was MORE juice from those saying he wasn't.

The only real consensus was that Fernando Mendoza was worthy of the #1 overall pick... in a lackluster draft class.

Don't listen to the talking heads, actually WATCH college football. It is actually better than the pros in a lot of ways. I watch at least 5 games a week. I also watch a lot of game film on certain players. I agree 100% that their job depends on clicks and most of what they have is fluff.

I speak out against hype, if I feel like there is something to speak out about.

I'm not claiming to be anything other than a fan of football, but I spoke AGAINST the talking heads when it came to Sanders in 2025. I gave him a third round grade and said, if they traded back in the second, or even traded up from their 3rd, I wouldn't be disappointed because he is a QB. I was amendment that he is not a first round pick and I don't think he is worth a second either. Doesn't mean I don't want to be wrong once he becomes a Brown, especially when he was there in the 5th. That is good value to take a chance on.

In a world where there is a lot of hype behind guys like Diego Pavia, it is refreshing to finally have a year to evaluate multiple QBs in the same season, knowing that it is possible multiple will be in the same draft.

As many have said, it doesn't mean they are going to end up being good. I was high on Drew Allar 2 years ago and still think he was the second best QB in this draft, but he hasn't shown the growth you want to see year over year. I try to stay away from one and done to the draft guys because in a lot of cases THEY don't even believe they could repeat what they did. There are some of those guys in the upcoming season as well. Some will digress while hopefully some will show the signs you are looking for when evaluating for the draft.

All we have at the moment is hype and story lines. We won't be able to start evaluating until August. But, I can still be excited because I love college football.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/draft2025/...aft-qbs-know-top-prospects-sleeper-picks

2024
Caleb Williams
Jayden Daniels
Drake Maye
Michael Penix
JJ McCarthy
Bo Nix

2025
Cam Ward
... etc.


If you look at the link, that was written right after the 2024 draft... so opinions were presented without benefit of hindsight, but also without QBs' final college season. They were hyping Beck, Ewers, and Shedeur. If memory serves, there was another QB or two that would've contributed to the class but elected to stay in school.

Which I believe is the gist of what I've been saying. As I said, I do admire your exuberance.

What I wonder is .. was this trade promised to Garret before he signed his extension last year. Was he given the no trade clause so the Browns could not trade him to Atlanta or Arizona. He wanted approval over any trade, but he wanted to be traded. He obviously agreed to the trade. The Browns wanted to find the best way to get a top draft pick .. two first rounders plus a second should do it.