WASHINGTON (AP) — President Donald Trump will deliver a primetime address this week that he says will include a focus on elections, suggesting he could revisit long-debunked conspiracy theories about his 2020 defeat to Democrat Joe Biden. The speech comes as he’s escalated calls for Republicans to pass tighter federal voting rules for November’s midterm elections.
The Republican president has been guarded about what he plans to say in the 9 p.m. Thursday speech, scheduled as he confronts a collapsing deal to end the war with Iran. He also faces numerous domestic issues, including recent deadly shootings by Immigration and Customs Enforcement officers. Asked for a preview of the speech on Tuesday, Trump offered scant detail but said he has “really big news.”
“It doesn’t get bigger, because without free and fair elections, you don’t have a country,” Trump said in the Oval Office. He refused to go further, saying he wanted to “save it” for the moment, though he also hinted he would be talking about a hodgepodge of issues.
“We’ll be discussing other things, too,” Trump said, without elaborating. “It’s going to be a very big announcement.”
Trump has used the power of the primetime presidential address — typically reserved for milestones — to deliver politically charged speeches before, including one in December when he sought to blame the challenging economic climate on Democrats. But Thursday’s address seems poised to go even further, using the moment to amplify election lies before an audience of millions in an effort to boost Republican prospects before midterms that threaten to hobble Trump for the remainder of his term.
On Monday, when asked about the speech, Trump repeated baseless claims of voter fraud in the Los Angeles primary race for mayor. During the interview with conservative outlet Newsmax, Trump said Republican Spencer Pratt lost his primary bid because of fraud, citing in part California’s slow vote count.
Federal prosecutors said they were opening fraud investigations in the state last month after Trump drew attention to the claim.
The president’s preoccupation with voting fraud and election security dates back at least to 2016, when he refused to say whether he would accept defeat to Democrat Hillary Clinton. After he won, he convened a voting integrity commission to support his claims that widespread voter fraud cost him the popular vote, though the commission disbanded without uncovering any such evidence.
Four years later, after he lost the 2020 election to Biden, Trump again claimed cheating and zeroed in on the Democrat’s narrow win in Georgia. Trump called the state’s secretary of state and pressured him to “find 11,780 votes,” just enough votes to overturn Biden’s victory in the state. He, along with than a dozen allies, was indicted in the state though the charges were later dropped.
Repeated audits and reviews -- manyrun by Republicans, including Trump’s own then-attorney general -- have found no significant fraud occurred in 2020.
Before winning in 2024, Trump was again laying the groundwork to claim cheating if he lost. After returning to office, he stocked his administration with officials who back his false claims of 2020 election fraud.
Trump made voting regulation central in this term
Frequently declaring that he won the White House “three times,” Trump has made voting regulation a core issue during his second term, demanding legislation that would require voter ID and sharply limit mail-in voting. Facing midterm races that will decide control of Capitol Hill, Trump has stirred new claims to cast doubt on election results that could challenge his power in Washington.
Earlier this year, FBI agents raided elections offices in Fulton County, Georgia, seizing materials from the 2020 election. Tulsi Gabbard, then Trump’s director of national intelligence, traveled to Atlanta to oversee the execution of the search warrant.
Maryland Gov. Wes Moore, campaigning in Georgia for Democratic Sen. Jon Ossoff and governor’s candidate Keisha Lance Bottoms, smiled Tuesday when asked about Trump potentially rehashing the 2020 election in his national address.
He called it a strategy “for losers.”
“I think people are exhausted by having conversations about elections that happened six years ago, that we have the answer to,” Moore said. “He continues to bring this up because he cannot get out of his mind that he actually could have lost.”
Beyond Georgia, Trump has widely taken aim at states that allow voters to submit ballots by mail. Trump said he called a U.S. attorney in California and demanded scrutiny of the governor’s primary last month as votes were being counted.
Last week, Trump ousted the remaining members of the federal Election Assistance Commission, a bipartisan panel that resisted his efforts to require would-be voters to document their U.S. citizenship before registering.
No, I posted this to show he will be talking about and it still obsessed with the 2020 election. And as a precursor for what he will try to claim and do before the mid term election. Pay attention next time.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
It might be worth paying a little bit of attention to. It has been all over the internet and talked about on morning Joe that he might state that the two two democratic senators from Georgia were fraudulently elected and are illegitimate-I am sure he will make up some stupid reason that will be shot down in a couple court filings and then appealed to the SC.
Also, I could see plenty of lies about necessity for passing the save act, federalizing the elections.
He knows the house and possibly the senate are not looking good
I wouldn't write things off as stupid until we hear what he says and offers. If you are already sure there isn't fraud, don't watch.
I think the proofs he might offer has to do with Georgia and Fulton county and LA country in the recent mayor elections. You have to admit that in the LA elections, the vast majority went to the 3rd place candidate. Bass won the popular vote but after the late returning mail-ins she and Pratt barely got a vote. The woman in 3rd place got all, to just barely edge Pratt for the general election bid.
Statically, that is next to impossible. The later returns should have at least somewhat mirrored the initial returns. Even if they say late returns are generally for democrats(I wonder why) Bass should have still received the majority of those votes, but she didn't.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.
I wouldn't write things off as stupid until we hear what he says and offers. If you are already sure there isn't fraud, don't watch.
So just ignore the president when he goes on national TV when you think he is once again for like the 1000th time to undermine the confidence in our elections?
Quote
I think the proofs he might offer has to do with Georgia and Fulton county and LA country in the recent mayor elections. You have to admit that in the LA elections, the vast majority went to the 3rd place candidate. Bass won the popular vote but after the late returning mail-ins she and Pratt barely got a vote. The woman in 3rd place got all, to just barely edge Pratt for the general election bid.
You will see him do what he usually does. Make a lot of accusations and state things as facts while offering no actual evidence to support it.
Quote
Statically, that is next to impossible. The later returns should have at least somewhat mirrored the initial returns. Even if they say late returns are generally for democrats(I wonder why) Bass should have still received the majority of those votes, but she didn't.
You wonder why? Because it's mainly democrats who vote by mail as it usually always is. Why do you think trump is trying so hard to stop mail in voting? And if you think it's because of election fraud he has you fooled. Which it appears he does.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
You wonder why? Because it's mainly democrats who vote by mail as it usually always is. Why do you think trump is trying so hard to stop mail in voting? And if you think it's because of election fraud he has you fooled. Which it appears he does.
You missed the context of his post. He's asking how Nithya Raman got the overwhelming amount of late mail-in votes when Bass was the clear leader at the actual polls.
Bass got 65% more votes than Raman at the polls. Raman got 15% more votes than Bass with the late mail-in ballots.
These were obviously all democratic voters we're talking about, so that seems like a HUGE mathematical anomaly.
I wouldn't write things off as stupid until we hear what he says and offers. If you are already sure there isn't fraud, don't watch.
I think the proofs he might offer has to do with Georgia and Fulton county and LA country in the recent mayor elections. You have to admit that in the LA elections, the vast majority went to the 3rd place candidate. Bass won the popular vote but after the late returning mail-ins she and Pratt barely got a vote. The woman in 3rd place got all, to just barely edge Pratt for the general election bid.
Statically, that is next to impossible. The later returns should have at least somewhat mirrored the initial returns. Even if they say late returns are generally for democrats(I wonder why) Bass should have still received the majority of those votes, but she didn't.
Trump is an idiot that continually lies and promotes conspiracy theories to fit his narrative. And you could also read any ruling from any court and you will get your answer
I wouldn't write things off as stupid until we hear what he says and offers. If you are already sure there isn't fraud, don't watch.
I think the proofs he might offer has to do with Georgia and Fulton county and LA country in the recent mayor elections. You have to admit that in the LA elections, the vast majority went to the 3rd place candidate. Bass won the popular vote but after the late returning mail-ins she and Pratt barely got a vote. The woman in 3rd place got all, to just barely edge Pratt for the general election bid.
Statically, that is next to impossible. The later returns should have at least somewhat mirrored the initial returns. Even if they say late returns are generally for democrats(I wonder why) Bass should have still received the majority of those votes, but she didn't.
Trump is an idiot that continually lies and promotes conspiracy theories to fit his narrative. And you could also read any ruling from any court and you will get your answer
I wouldn't write things off as stupid until we hear what he says and offers.
If he somehow comes off his usual script that he has for elections (which is to make baseless claims that either go nowhere or make it in front of a judge only to be laughed out of the courtroom) then I will be pleasantly surprised.
If your fraud radar goes off because a MAGA Republican doesn't get votes in Los Angeles, then I feel very sorry for you. That is a STRESSFUL life to live.
Would you please report the areas the bulk of those votes came from that were counted the latest and the strength of support by each candidate in those specific areas?
General accusations with no evidence with which to support them is all the rage these days.
Bass defeated Raman which shows the polls were right all along. Pratt, the republican is who she beat. That's the only problem here.
I find it very odd how so many Republicans in general point out just how flawed and inaccurate they claim polls are. How they're rarely ever right and you can't pay attention to them. Then suddenly when something comes along to substantiate their point they call it "a HUGE mathematical anomaly".
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
You find a lot of things odd. In this case, grade school-level mathematics.
Well I must give you credit, you are trying to use grade school-level mathematics. Raw data with no context certainly qualifies.
Maybe it's that grade school level thinking that makes them ignore the facts and act so insulted by it............
Quote
I find it very odd how so many Republicans in general point out just how flawed and inaccurate they claim polls are. How they're rarely ever right and you can't pay attention to them. Then suddenly when something comes along to substantiate their point they call it "a HUGE mathematical anomaly".
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
I wouldn't write things off as stupid until we hear what he says and offers. If you are already sure there isn't fraud, don't watch.
I think the proofs he might offer has to do with Georgia and Fulton county and LA country in the recent mayor elections. You have to admit that in the LA elections, the vast majority went to the 3rd place candidate. Bass won the popular vote but after the late returning mail-ins she and Pratt barely got a vote. The woman in 3rd place got all, to just barely edge Pratt for the general election bid.
Statically, that is next to impossible. The later returns should have at least somewhat mirrored the initial returns. Even if they say late returns are generally for democrats(I wonder why) Bass should have still received the majority of those votes, but she didn't.
Anecdotal circumstance in an election 6 years after the 2020 election is not proof of anything that could be used in support of a 2020 claim.
What is whataboutism at its finest...
Welcome back, Joe, we missed you!…. That did not age well.
US networks face dilemma over whether to air Trump's election security speech
NEW YORK, July 16 (Reuters) - U.S. television networks are weighing whether to carry a planned primetime address on Thursday by President Donald Trump, who is expected to focus his remarks on election security, four months before critical midterm elections.
Networks have historically carried most such speeches on the grounds that they provide information of public importance.
The White House is considering using the speech to disclose sensitive intelligence related to China's intention or ability to interfere in the 2020 U.S. election, Reuters reported on Wednesday, which some Trump officials worry could be misleading.
During a Thursday press briefing, White House Press Secretary Karoline Leavitt said that “it is also very possible” Trump will mention the current situation with Iran and the economy at the top of the speech, and could possibly address a range of topics.
She said that is “all the more reason” for the networks to carry the speech live, and for Americans to tune in.
Trump has spent years sowing doubts about electoral outcomes, falsely claiming his 2020 loss to Democrat Joe Biden was rigged. He has also claimed without evidence that mail-in voting is rife with fraud, voting machines are vulnerable to manipulation and non-citizen voting is widespread.
Some Democrats, including U.S. Representative Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, have urged networks not to air the speech, arguing Trump is likely to repeat debunked claims.
Spokespeople for the three major U.S. networks -- ABC, CBS and NBC -- did not respond to Reuters questions about whether they planned to carry the address live. CNN and Fox News (FOXA.O), opens new tab also did not respond to a request for comment.
Declining to air the speech would risk angering an administration that has already placed unprecedented pressure on the major broadcast networks.
Walt Disney (DIS.N), opens new tab- owned ABC is facing two pending inquiries from the Federal Communications Commission, including one examining whether its daytime talk show "The View" violated equal-time rules by interviewing a Democratic Senate candidate in Texas.
Trump has repeatedly attacked NBC and its parent company, Comcast (CMCSA.O), opens new tab, which he has dubbed "Concast." Last month he stormed out of an interview with NBC political reporter Kristen Welker after calling the network "a one-sided crooked network."
Comcast last month announced plans to split into two publicly traded companies through a spinoff of NBCUniversal and Sky. Analysts have said the move could make NBCUniversal an attractive takeover target.
At CBS, the takeover of Paramount (PSKY.O), opens new tab by David Ellison, whose billionaire father Larry is a Trump ally, has roiled the newsroom and prompted the departure of senior staff from the news magazine "60 Minutes". Some employees have alleged political interference in editorial decisions, which the network has denied.
Ellison is now awaiting FCC approval for Paramount's acquisition of Warner Bros. Discovery, which could give him control of CNN, a network Trump has long criticized for what he says is unfair coverage. The U.S. Justice Department's Antitrust Division gave its blessing to the deal last month.
The conservative-leaning cable news network Fox News, owned by Rupert Murdoch, generally carries all of Trump's speeches but may also be wary of this one.
In 2023, the network had to pay out $787 million to settle a defamation suit over its airing of false claims about the 2020 election.
Trump doubles down on US election attacks in his primetime speech
WASHINGTON (AP) — President Donald Trump used a primetime address to the nation Thursday to elevate his yearslong push to raise doubts about the legitimacy of U.S. elections and dispute his 2020 loss in an appeal for more restrictive voting laws ahead of the midterms.
Trump’s amplification of debunked theories about the election six years ago and his inability to accept his loss led to one of the darker moments in American history when a mob of his supporters led a violent attack on the U.S. Capitol on Jan. 6, 2021, in the final days of his first term.
Now back in power, Trump opted to revisit the subject, despite persistent voter concerns about the cost of living, American forces escalating strikes on Iran in a conflict for which there is no end in sight, and an immigration crackdown facing bipartisan scrutiny for its sometimes deadly tactics.
His address Thursday hinged on contradictions.
A twice-elected president complained about his one personal defeat, alleged a cover-up by officials in his own first administration and surfaced claims about countries attempting to harm his own prospects while staying silent on steps taken by other nations to boost him.
Trump used the remarks to justify his push to pass a strict voter ID bill in Congress that has not advanced because it lacks enough support from his fellow Republicans.
“America is back and doing really well, but we still have a major challenge that must be urgently addressed, because no country can be great without fair and honest elections,” he said.
Trump doesn’t raise doubts about his election wins
Trump began Thursday night with a stark warning about what he described as flaws in the voting system and said he was releasing previously classified documents related to the 2020 and 2018 elections, when he lost the presidential election and when his party suffered losses.
Trump’s speech presented allegations of interference and influence in ways that lacked key context and did not produce evidence that votes had been manipulated or that the election outcome had been altered.
Notably, Trump focused on China but glossed over Russia, a country that intelligence officials have said favored Trump in 2016 and 2020 and engaged in wide-ranging influence campaigns aimed at boosting him over Democrat Joe Biden in the latter campaign.
Despite focusing on China in his speech, Trump did not criticize or issue a warning to Chinese President Xi Jinping, whom he has long praised.
Election security experts say America’s decentralized voting system, with the power over elections residing with the states instead of the federal government, is a strength. Americans vote in more than 10,000 different jurisdictions with different rules, making the nations’ elections extraordinarily complicated but safe from widespread fraud.
No credible intelligence has emerged showing that the vote count in 2020 was manipulated by foreign actors. Repeated audits and reviews -- manyrun by Republicans, including Trump’s own then-attorney general -- have found no significant fraud occurred in 2020.
Even if substantiated, Trump’s claims did not amount to conduct that would have altered the outcome of any race, let alone the 2020 race for the White House.
He also did not raise doubts about his election wins in 2016 or 2024.
As Trump spoke, the White House unveiled a website containing documents that were presented without context and included selectively released pieces of investigation files, intelligence analysis and correspondence.
Former intelligence official calls address ‘dangerous’
Sue Gordon, principal deputy director of national intelligence in Trump’s first term, called the president’s address “a dangerous speech about an incredibly important topic.” She said the intelligence community throughout Trump’s first term was alarmed about foreign interference in elections, but Trump scoffed at them, angered at the investigation of his campaign’s relationship with Russia.
“He had an entire term to deal with it and I don’t know how you can believe how the same community that told him about it, that was excoriated about it” wouldn’t warn him in 2020, Gordon said on CNN.
Conservative commentator John Solomon, who joined the White House staff last month and was seated in the East Room for Trump’s speech, later told MS NOW that “the intelligence community has zero evidence that someone has flipped – that a foreign power flipped -- a vote in 2020, ‘22 or ’24.”
But, he added, “We’re not through all the documents.”
Trump urged the Justice Department to conduct investigations and prosecutions, though it was unclear from his speech what sort of criminal conduct — if any — could be identified, proven and charged.
In a contrast with his concerns about foreign interference in elections, Trump in his new budget proposes a $707 million cut in the U.S. Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Agency, the group charged with protecting American election systems from overseas cyberattacks. Trump and other conservatives have been frustrated that the organization pushed back on election claims in 2020 and beyond.
Some networks did not air it live
In past presidencies, primetime addresses have typically been reserved for major milestones or nationally significant events.
Trump last spoke to the nation in April, giving an address on the Iran war a month after it started. He said then that the U.S. would accomplish its objectives “very shortly” and that “the hard part is done, so it should be easy.” The war, however, has dragged on and strikes between the U.S. and Iran have intensified this week.
Trump also delivered a politically charged primetime speech in December in which he sought to blame the challenging economic climate on Democrats.
ABC, NBC and CNN did not air Thursday’s remarks live but carried them in full on their streaming services.
CBS and MS NOW both cut away from Trump’s speech before he finished, while Fox News continued to carry his address.
Trump called out the media outlets for not carrying it live, accused them of being “part of a plot” and suggested their broadcast licenses be revoked.
Networks typically — but not always — carry presidential addresses to the nation live. In 2022, when Biden delivered a primetime address full of warnings about Trump and his adherents’ “extreme ideology,” the networks did not carry it live.
In 2014, the major networks chose to stick with their primetime programming instead of airing an address by President Barack Obama on his plans for immigration reform.
Democrats accuse Trump of seeking to discredit next election
Democrats warned that Trump was trying to revive false claims of past stolen elections in order to delegitimize the 2026 midterm elections, in which Trump’s Republican Party is facing headwinds.
Democratic Sen. Mark Warner of Virginia called Trump’s claims “totally bogus.”
“The fact is our intelligence agencies unanimously agreed that China did not even try to change a single vote in the 2020 election,” Warner said in a statement on X. “A single concurring opinion suggested China may have tried to sway voters’ opinions … but that’s been public knowledge since 2021.”
Rep. Joseph Morelle of New York, the ranking Democrat on the administration committee that handles federal voting issues and elections, said Trump is trying to sow confusion before the midterm elections.
“This is a pretext for the president, I think, calling into dispute the 2026 elections,” Morelle said on C-SPAN, adding that “we have secure elections.”
“I heard no concrete allegations that foreign actors actually changed the results of an American election,” Democratic Sen. Chris Coons of Delaware said on CNN.
The Washington Post has released a recording of US President Donald Trump telling Georgia's top election official to "find" enough votes to overturn the election result.
"I just want to find 11,780 votes," he told Republican Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger.
In the full recording, Mr Raffensperger is heard replying that Georgia's results were correct.
Mr Biden won Georgia alongside other swing states, winning 306 electoral college votes to his Mr Trump's 232.
Since the 3 November vote, Mr Trump has been alleging widespread electoral fraud without providing any evidence.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
So it seems according to trump when both Obama and Biden were president the 2016 and 2024 elections were fair but the election that took place while trump was president in 2020 was rigged and stolen? I'm not sure I would want to admit that if I were him. I wonder what that means about the 2026 and 2028 elections? After all, he only thinks an election was rigged when he was president.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
So it seems according to trump when both Obama and Biden were president the 2016 and 2024 elections were fair but the election that took place while trump was president in 2020 was rigged and stolen? I'm not sure I would want to admit that if I were him. I wonder what that means about the 2026 and 2028 elections? After all, he only thinks an election was rigged when he was president.
It's not even worth playing that game .... it's only Trumptards and people who seriously have no brain that believe the 2020 election was "stolen". There is overwhelming concrete proof that there is no mass voter fraud that can change the result of elections. It's scare tactic to get the MAGA tards to froth at the mouth and get all emotional about it.
Last edited by mgh888; 07/17/2611:32 AM.
The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
Or to make Jan. 6th look like a blip on the radar screen in comparison to what we will see if Democrats take back control of the House.
In all honesty I see the stage being set for Republican controlled states to refuse certifying the 2026 election results in states where they lose the election.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
In all honesty I see the stage being set for Republican controlled states to refuse certifying the 2026 election results in states where they lose the election.
I'm no fan of Trump. I think what he's done with his second term is fairly despicable. But nothing we can't recover from and move on from.
If what you just wrote came to fruition it would be the beginning of the end. Putin would be laughing so so hard we would hear him in Alaska.
The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
I don't see him giving speeches with no end goal in mind. We certainly saw how that played out on Jan. 6th. of 2021. Even in your own post you described what he was doing as getting his base to "froth at the mouth and get all emotional about it". That sounds so familiar.
I can't speak to how campaign ads are going in other states. But if I had to venture a guess I would say on the Republican side where candidates who won strongly supported trump it's most likely as it is here. Here in Tennessee their campaign ads look like they're trying to convince their voters that they're the trumpiest trumpains to have ever supported trump. I don't see it being an issue here. After the redistricting they pretty much insured no democrat could win the bid for the house and the senate. Even before that the only places to elect Democrats were heavily blue areas of the state who nobody expected Republicans to win anyway.
But in states where Republicans hold the majority of their statehouse, those purple states and districts that are heavily contested, I see withholding the certification of this election where democrats win a very real and strong possibility.
Too many times I've heard people make the claim that trump was just kidding, that nobody took what he said seriously or he was just saying things to own the libs. Then not long after those the very things he said, he did. And those riding his coattails followed his every wish. Supported his every move no matter what. Or as we see regularly on this very board, just ignored it all together.
At this point I'm not taking anything for granted.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
I wouldn't write things off as stupid until we hear what he says and offers. If you are already sure there isn't fraud, don't watch.
I think the proofs he might offer has to do with Georgia and Fulton county and LA country in the recent mayor elections. You have to admit that in the LA elections, the vast majority went to the 3rd place candidate. Bass won the popular vote but after the late returning mail-ins she and Pratt barely got a vote. The woman in 3rd place got all, to just barely edge Pratt for the general election bid.
Statically, that is next to impossible. The later returns should have at least somewhat mirrored the initial returns. Even if they say late returns are generally for democrats(I wonder why) Bass should have still received the majority of those votes, but she didn't.
There was attempted fraud... That is pretty much a Given..,, I remember one candidate asking for "11,780 votes"! That was a clear as day attempt at fraud. Other than that, Wasn't it the Heritage foundation has determined that over the last 30 or more years, there has been 77 times that a person not eligible to vote actually voted..... 77 times Out of how many millions? Yikes,,,
Having listened to Trump on Thursday, I still haven't seen any proof of significant fraud..... I do believe that China and Russia probably did try to interfere., But to what result, I'm not sure.. It could be said that the only reason Trump won in 2016 was because of outside interference.. That didn't help him in 2020 because of the shear numbers of folks that voted for Biden. As for 2024, I'd think that a Billionaire Spending upwards of $230 million on Trumps campaign might have had an effect..
By the way, That's a problem we can fix.. Stop Citizens United.. Stop the Big Donors... To Any Party or person.. While we are at it, Bring back the Fairness doctrine.,.,..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
Trump's effort to get state voter rolls hits a brick wall in courts
The opposition to the Trump DOJ's demands is bipartisan. Some GOP states are fighting to protect personal voter info and 7 of 15 District Court judges who rejected the requests are Trump appointees.
The Times, Places and Manner of holding Elections for Senators and Representatives, shall be prescribed in each State by the Legislature thereof; but the Congress may at any time by Law make or alter such Regulations, except as to the Places of chusing Senators.
By its terms, Article I, Section 4, Clause 1, referred to as the Elections Clause, contemplates that state legislatures will establish the times, places, and manner of holding elections for the House of Representatives and the Senate, subject to Congress making or altering such state regulations (except as to the place of choosing Senators).1 The Supreme Court has interpreted the Elections Clause expansively, enabling states "to provide a complete code for congressional elections, not only as to times and places, but in relation to notices, registration, supervision of voting, protection of voters, prevention of fraud and corrupt practices, counting of votes, duties of inspectors and canvassers, and making and publication of election returns."2 The Court has further recognized the states’ ability to establish sanctions for violating election laws3 as well as authority over recounts4 and primaries.5 The Elections Clause, however, does not govern voter qualifications, which under Article I, Section 2, Clause 1, and the Seventeenth Amendment must be the same as the "Qualifications requisite for Electors of the most numerous Branch of the State Legislatures."6 Similarly, the authority of states to establish the "Times, Places and Manner of holding Elections for Senators and Representatives" does not include authority to impose additional qualification requirements to be a Member of the House of Representatives or a Senator, which are governed by the Constitution’s Qualification Clauses at Article I, Section 2, Clause 2 for Members of the House and at Article I, Section 3, Clause 3 for the Senate.7
I guess my question is - is there really ANYONE on the planet that believes Trump won the 2020 election?
Everything else is posturing and trolling.
I only know what I have access to read or listen-to...but I do know/believe this:
Biden ran with an exceptionally unpopular VP choice in Kamala. Yet he received 15% more votes than did Obama running with Biden as his VP. That makes no sense.
It makes perfect sense. That was due to outrage and backlash over trump's first term. Independent voters always decide elections. All one needs to do is look at the voter rolls and the percentages. The problem became how the Democrats kept supporting Biden even after he made it obvious he was no longer fit for the office and Kamala was unpopular among Independent voters. There is also the fact Republicans did a very good job selling the idea that the inflation that was a global issue do to supply chains and businesses closing down was somehow Biden's fault.
And before you claim this isn't true I would like for you to explain one thing.
If that isn't true why do we have purple states? Why do we have states that shift back and forth from party to party on any given election if Independent voters don't decide elections?
Sure, you have solid GOP states and solid Dem states, but that won't explain states that fluctuate back and forth. And if you wish to talk about winning with a very unpopular VP candidate you forgot to mention Vance. The question isn't if both were unpopular, the question is unpopular to whom? And let's be honest here, nobody casts their vote based on who the VP candidate is.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
So to be clear - you have not said anything. You've talked about how you feel (that it allegedly makes no sense).
Facts are: There was no mass voter fraud. The voter fraud that did occur was nearly an equal split between R and D voters - the R voters actually have a narrow lead. This has been proven over and over by R states doing their own investigation and by the courts - overwhelmingly and conclusively.
As for why Biden got more votes than Trump - you only have to look at how unpopular and divisive Trump was. In addition to that, then look at VOTER TURN OUT. 21 million more people voted in 2020 than they did in 2012 ... any logical guess as to who most of them probably voted for? They didn't all vote for Biden I am sure - but in 2020 there were 22% more voters as a % of the 2012 number. . . . So it makes perfect sense if you want to actually look at it logically.
So either say something in black and white and that you think the election was stolen or accept the facts.
Last edited by mgh888; 07/19/2604:04 AM.
The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
Probably never going to get rid of the money. Getting the message out isn't cheap.
To me the easiest is to require I.D. to vote and limit the time a mail-in can be received.
"If" there is fraud, it is with undocumented voters and mail-in votes. It can create the perception of fraud. As long as the perception exists people are going to think things are rigged.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.
Perception and what people think is no reason to create new laws and new regulations. If someone mails in their ballot on election day, is that too late or is it their responsibility to make sure the post office does their job and delivers their ballot in a timely fashion?
Republicans hold the majority in both the Senate and the House and still can't pass the SAVE act.
When you have a man as president who has spent the past 10 years sewing seeds of doubt and suspicion over mail in voting, you created the situation we see now of suspicion and finger pointing. Yet after 60 court cases and multiple accusations he still can't show any voter fraud exists that makes any difference in election outcomes and is so rare that this entire thing has been manufactured.
That's no reason to have a sweeping overhaul of election laws. Unless of course you condone changing laws about most everything any time someone manufactures accusations.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
I guess my question is - is there really ANYONE on the planet that believes Trump won the 2020 election?
Everything else is posturing and trolling.
I only know what I have access to read or listen-to...but I do know/believe this:
Biden ran with an exceptionally unpopular VP choice in Kamala. Yet he received 15% more votes than did Obama running with Biden as his VP. That makes no sense.
In addition to just coming off Trump's first term, about 20m ADDITIONAL people voted in 2020 and 2024 vs 2016 and 2012.
The 2016 election was a hold your nose contest between Billery and Doofus Don. The resulted in the low turnout. 2020 was the get rid of the Doofus no matter what. 2024 was the battle of the grandpas until Joe pissed in his wheaties and Kamala became relief.
Welcome back, Joe, we missed you!…. That did not age well.
About that "magic bullet" amendment. . . . Any thoughts on it? I applauded the networks that refused to air the lies and repeated falsehoods. Continue to keep cutting him off.
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
About that "magic bullet" amendment. . . . Any thoughts on it? I applauded the networks that refused to air the lies and repeated falsehoods. Continue to keep cutting him off.
Yeah you like corrupt elections. I do not like illegals voting's, early voting's, mail in ballots, etc... It is all cheating.
About that "magic bullet" amendment. . . . Any thoughts on it? I applauded the networks that refused to air the lies and repeated falsehoods. Continue to keep cutting him off.
Yeah you like corrupt elections. I do not like illegals voting's, early voting's, mail in ballots, etc... It is all cheating.
Then you should be happy and grateful corrupt elections aren't happening. Even the Heritage foundation who actually authored Project 2025 fell flat on their face when they tried to prove those exact same accusations.
I suppose you also bought it when trump told you, "They're eating the dogs! they're eating the cats! They're eating the pets!"
Trump told you to your face that smart people didn't like him and he also told you he thought most Americans were so stupid most of them didn't know the word dumb ended with a B. Yet you still believe his unsubstantiated BS. Some of you just never learn.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
About that "magic bullet" amendment. . . . Any thoughts on it? I applauded the networks that refused to air the lies and repeated falsehoods. Continue to keep cutting him off.
Yeah you like corrupt elections. I do not like illegals voting's, early voting's, mail in ballots, etc... It is all cheating.
Then you should be happy and grateful corrupt elections aren't happening. Even the Heritage foundation who actually authored Project 2025 fell flat on their face when they tried to prove those exact same accusations.
I suppose you also bought it when trump told you, "They're eating the dogs! they're eating the cats! They're eating the pets!"
Trump told you to your face that smart people didn't like him and he also told you he thought most Americans were so stupid most of them didn't know the word dumb ended with a B. Yet you still believe his unsubstantiated BS. Some of you just never learn.
The elections have been corrupted plain and simple.
About that "magic bullet" amendment. . . . Any thoughts on it? I applauded the networks that refused to air the lies and repeated falsehoods. Continue to keep cutting him off.
Yeah you like corrupt elections. I do not like illegals voting's, early voting's, mail in ballots, etc... It is all cheating.
I don't like it either, and the fact that it's exceedingly rare that it happens makes me feel a little better.
About that "magic bullet" amendment. . . . Any thoughts on it? I applauded the networks that refused to air the lies and repeated falsehoods. Continue to keep cutting him off.
Yeah you like corrupt elections. I do not like illegals voting's, early voting's, mail in ballots, etc... It is all cheating.
Then you should be happy and grateful corrupt elections aren't happening. Even the Heritage foundation who actually authored Project 2025 fell flat on their face when they tried to prove those exact same accusations.
I suppose you also bought it when trump told you, "They're eating the dogs! they're eating the cats! They're eating the pets!"
Trump told you to your face that smart people didn't like him and he also told you he thought most Americans were so stupid most of them didn't know the word dumb ended with a B. Yet you still believe his unsubstantiated BS. Some of you just never learn.
The elections have been corrupted plain and simple.
If we are talking about what's actually happening in reality (vs easily debunked narratives meant only to stir controversy), I would say that the moves to strip funding/staff to groups that were tasked with ensuring the integrity of our elections is something we should be worried about.
Then where is your evidence? Do you believe in actual evidence based facts or what trump tells you and your "feelings"?
Here is what the most right wing source possible found. This was just prior to the 2024 election. You know the one trump won so of course there couldn't have possibly been any cheating, right?
These are the states trump often claims were "stolen" from him......
Arizona: Out of the last 36 elections held they found 36 cases of voter fraud.
Georgia: Out of the past 34 elections they found 24 cases of election fraud.
Michigan: Out of the last 26 elections they found 19 cases of voter fraud.
Nevada: Out of the last 14 elections they found 8 cases of voter fraud.
North Carolina: Out of the last 39 elections they found 58 cases of voter fraud.
Pennsylvania: Out of the last 32 elections they found 39 cases of voter fraud.
Wisconsin: Out of the last 28 elections they found 69 cases of voter fraud.
Then where is your evidence? Do you believe in actual evidence based facts or what trump tells you and your "feelings"?
Here is what the most right wing source possible found. This was just prior to the 2024 election. You know the one trump won so of course there couldn't have possibly been any cheating, right?
These are the states trump often claims were "stolen" from him......
Arizona: Out of the last 36 elections held they found 36 cases of voter fraud.
Georgia: Out of the past 34 elections they found 24 cases of election fraud.
Michigan: Out of the last 26 elections they found 19 cases of voter fraud.
Nevada: Out of the last 14 elections they found 8 cases of voter fraud.
North Carolina: Out of the last 39 elections they found 58 cases of voter fraud.
Pennsylvania: Out of the last 32 elections they found 39 cases of voter fraud.
Wisconsin: Out of the last 28 elections they found 69 cases of voter fraud.
Election integrity is a simple fix. Polls open at 6am and close at 7pm. Show up and show your ID and you vote, if you do not then you do not get to vote. If your out of town go to the courthouse and show your ID and get a mail in ballot. If you do not show your ID you do not get a ballot. Anything other than that is cheating!!!
So in response to the evidence I've given you, your answer is to fix something that doesn't exist? To create more barriers and laws attempting to stop something that isn't happening? There is no need for a "simple fix" for something that isn't broken in the first place.
There is no mass voter fraud. One half to one and a half votes per election in states is not in any way deciding elections. See, that's the problem. Evidence doesn't matter to you. Facts do not matter to you. trump knows that and takes advantage of it while you play right along with it. Your "feelings" don't matter.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Wrong, DofD. I hate corrupt government. Ours now is the worst I have seen. I always vote. This illegal stuff is anti-democratic. We should require voting and lock up those who want to manipulate elections, disallow votes and voting, are ripe to forfeit office if they break their oath.
I did want discussion of the amendment for succession as a way to address a myriad of wrongdoing and actions crippling America. Our failure to mete out consequences has led to this horrible opinion of courts, politicians, this PINO, and lawyers. The amendment is simply self-defense for life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness (there are other rights assured as well if you check on it). I have a high opinion of America and what it should be. Just wondering about you all.
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
So in response to the evidence I've given you, your answer is to fix something that doesn't exist? To create more barriers and laws attempting to stop something that isn't happening? There is no need for a "simple fix" for something that isn't broken in the first place.
There is no mass voter fraud. One half to one and a half votes per election in states is not in any way deciding elections. See, that's the problem. Evidence doesn't matter to you. Facts do not matter to you. trump knows that and takes advantage of it while you play right along with it. Your "feelings" don't matter.
Early voting is voter fraud. Mail in ballots is voter fraud. No ID voting is voter fraud!!!!
So in response to the evidence I've given you, your answer is to fix something that doesn't exist? To create more barriers and laws attempting to stop something that isn't happening? There is no need for a "simple fix" for something that isn't broken in the first place.
There is no mass voter fraud. One half to one and a half votes per election in states is not in any way deciding elections. See, that's the problem. Evidence doesn't matter to you. Facts do not matter to you. trump knows that and takes advantage of it while you play right along with it. Your "feelings" don't matter.
Early voting is voter fraud. Mail in ballots is voter fraud. No ID voting is voter fraud!!!!
The total lack of critical thinking that goes into making a post like this is astounding.
At worst, early voting, mail in voting, etc COULD allow for fraud. Generally, making a link between any of those types of things and fraud requires evidence. A complete lack of evidence calls into question the intention behind questioning election integrity where there is no actual reason to do so.
Early voting is voter fraud. Mail in ballots is voter fraud.
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In a legal context, fraud is the intentional deception of another person to cause them financial or personal injury. Perpetrators use trickery or false information to gain an unlawful advantage. Victims typically suffer the loss of money, property, or legal rights.
Misrepresentation: The offender made a false statement of fact.
Knowledge of Falsity: The offender knew the statement was false when they made it.
Intent to Deceive: The offender intended the victim to rely on the false statement.
Justifiable Reliance: The victim reasonably believed the statement and acted upon it.
Millions upon millions of legal votes are cast in each presidential election through either mail in voting or early voting by registered, legal U.S. voters. Both are legal methods of voting. With early voting you go to a standard voting poll location and the exact same steps are taken as on election day. It seems you fail to grasp what the word fraud even means. It doesn't mean something you just made up in your brain. Maybe in your own little world but not to normal people.
Let me ask you something. The claim is there was cheating in the 2020 election and that's how Biden won. Trump was president in 2020 during that election. Trump was elected in both 2016 and 2024 when democrats were president. If democrats are that good at cheating why did they let trump win both times? And if there was cheating in 2020 to help Biden win was there no cheating in 2016 and 2024 to help trump win?
For God's sake think for a change man.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Maybe you should take a look at New Jersey. The issue was created by doing exactly what you claim you want. It wasn't caused by mail in voting. It wasn't caused by early voting.
It was caused by a software glitch at the DMV. You know, where they were getting that "picture ID" you want in order to vote so badly. The DMV itself was registering them to vote. So when they went to vote they already had a picture ID and were registered. You know, that thing you say should be required to vote in order to stop voter fraud?
In you rush to get your gotchya moment, you used a moment that actually got you.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Maybe you should take a look at New Jersey. The issue was created by doing exactly what you claim you want. It wasn't caused by mail in voting. It wasn't caused by early voting.
It was caused by a software glitch at the DMV. You know, where they were getting that "picture ID" you want in order to vote so badly. The DMV itself was registering them to vote. So when they went to vote they already had a picture ID and were registered. You know, that thing you say should be required to vote in order to stop voter fraud?
In you rush to get your gotchya moment, you used a moment that actually got you.
Beyond that, you've gotta deliberately forget that there are fake IDs that are fairly easily available.
I have zero issue requiring govt ID in order to vote, I still don't understand how that solves any of our problems... especially imaginary ones.
It's not that I actually have a problem with it per se myself. But I don't think it's quite as simple as "you need a government issued photo ID to vote" and let that stand on its own. Having to pay for something to qualify to vote I find to be a step too far. Now if you plan to issue those for free that's a different matter. And I know it doesn't cost much. But still why should you be forced to pay money so you can vote? In the south alone almost 1700 polling places have been closed. Mostly in poorer rural areas. This is a direct obstacle to people without transportation which are strongly democratic voting strongholds from easy access to vote.
I'm just not sure I can advocate that a certain party is doing all it can to put obstacles in the way of the poorest of Americans voting. I believe the ID's required to vote should come at no cost if they are required to vote. If you choose to close polling locations in poor areas forcing people to travel much longer distances to vote, transportation should be provided to help make up for that.
If people wish to do away with early voting, election day should be a national holiday so people that can't afford to miss work won't be financially penalized for voting.
I mean I get it. A lot of people have a really hard time putting themselves in the shoes of others. For them, as well as myself all of these things are easy tasks and is of no financial burden to us nor does distance pose an obstacle. Where I vote is less than five minutes from where I live. I've never waited in line for more than thirty minutes to vote.
Early voting gives you the choice to vote at your convenience. You go to a standard polling location and go through the exact same procedure you do on election day. But as we can see in this thread even that isn't acceptable to some people. They call the normal voting procedure fraud because it's done on a different day.
So yes, I believe photo ID being required to vote is fine if you allow for certain caveats.
However I do believe it's more than obvious that from closing polling locations to trying to restrict voting to election day only are certainly intentionally placing obstacles in the way if voters. As an example, even the DMV office in my own country is over twenty minutes away by vehicle and that includes mostly interstate and four lane roads. As I said, that isn't a problem for me. The $28 dollar fee for that ID isn't a problem for me. How a person in an impoverished neighborhood with no vehicle would accomplish that same task is a different animal all together. So yes, transportation is yet another factor to be considered in getting that ID.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
One of the larger problems with the whole voter ID thing is for a woman to prove name changes.
My wife and sister went through the wringer to get a real id. It is not as simple as it seems and took several iterations to get it resolved.
So what we have is a bit of a challenge... It seems plausible that everyone should have a state issue ID. It just will not match the birth certificate which is also an acceptable form of ID.
Welcome back, Joe, we missed you!…. That did not age well.
And when considering the whole of the SAVE act that's the biggest obstacle I see in it. I don't know the specifics but my daughter chose to get a passport rather than the REAL ID. She said it was easier and less complicated. But yes, my wife is in her 60's like i am. Her first husband passed away while she was still in her 20's. Then later she got a divorce. So not only will she need her divorce papers, which she does have, she would need to get a copy of her first husbands death certificate from 40+ years ago along with her birth certificate and proof of residency.
A man requires only his birth certificate and proof of residency unless he had his name changed legally. It's just more obstacles put in the way and in this case makes it harder for women.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
To your point, it should NOT be as much of a pain to get your govt-issued ID as it is now... though I think COVID actually helped push this in the right direction. Currently, you can renew your passport online if you meet certain criteria (one of which, notably, is that you're not changing your name or other personal info). I highlight that because we're not there yet, but it's very possible and we are moving in that direction. It's been argued in one of these threads that the cost of obtaining a state ID is actually not very high.
Over time I have become increasingly curious how many illegal drugs you did in your youth. And if the answer is none you may be one of those rare exceptions where doing them may have helped.
So no response about New Jersey then I take it?
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Over time I have become increasingly curious how many illegal drugs you did in your youth. And if the answer is none you may be one of those rare exceptions where doing them may have helped.
So no response about New Jersey then I take it?
New Jersey proves how corrupt the election processes have become. Well over 6,000 illegals registered. That is alarming. They should stick to fundamental rules. You register. You get ID. You should your ID and it is checked off vs the register. You vote between 6am and 7pm at your registered polling place. If your out of town you get an absentee ballot at the courthouse by showing your ID and being checked vs a register. Everything else. Early voting, Mail in ballots, drop locations, etc... are all forms of cheating. NFL games are played in a time span. Teas can only score points during that time span and only by members of their teams by a roster of legal players. You cannot use illegal players. Cannot score points before or after the game is played. Keep it simple. Everything else is cheating.....
Yes, I'm set to get my license renewed in September. It's $28 here in Tennessee. Not much at all.... to me. My dad taught me something when I was younger. Of course things were much less expensive then. I wanted a new basketball and told him it was "only $12.99". And his response was "That doesn't sound like much unless you only have $10."
It's not that he didn't have the money. In fact he bought me the basketball. But he helped me to learn about putting things things into perspective. What's cheap or inexpensive is relative to how much money you have. My point was only that it shouldn't cost anyone money to have the right to vote. Some argue that's the form of a poll tax and while a small amount to most of us, I still don't think that justifies someone having to spend money out of pocket in order to qualify to vote.
I need a license to drive. Which is a privilege and not a right. So it's not an issue for me. But if a person must get an I.D. strictly for voting purposes that's a different animal to me.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Over time I have become increasingly curious how many illegal drugs you did in your youth. And if the answer is none you may be one of those rare exceptions where doing them may have helped.
So no response about New Jersey then I take it?
New Jersey proves how corrupt the election processes have become. Well over 6,000 illegals registered. That is alarming.
The election process? This was the process to get the photo ID you claim voters should have. The DMV isn't in charge of or run the elections.
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They should stick to fundamental rules. You register. You get ID. You should your ID and it is checked off vs the register.
So you should be able to register to vote before you get your ID?
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You vote between 6am and 7pm at your registered polling place.
Why? To vote early you go to a legal polling place and go through the exact same process you do on election day. What is your fixation with this?
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Everything else. Early voting, Mail in ballots, drop locations, etc... are all forms of cheating.
You have been shown time and time again that you are just plain wrong. Millions upon millions of Americans cast legal and valid votes through both early voting and voting by mail. Casting a legal vote is not cheating. Why do you think legal votes are cheating?
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NFL games are played in a time span. Teas can only score points during that time span and only by members of their teams by a roster of legal players. You cannot use illegal players. Cannot score points before or after the game is played. Keep it simple. Everything else is cheating.....
Voting is a constitutional right and not a game. Your example is ridiculous. There is no game clock and nobody is "using" illegal players.
I'll grant you one thing. If nothing else you are hilarious!
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Over time I have become increasingly curious how many illegal drugs you did in your youth. And if the answer is none you may be one of those rare exceptions where doing them may have helped.
So no response about New Jersey then I take it?
New Jersey proves how corrupt the election processes have become. Well over 6,000 illegals registered. That is alarming.
The election process? This was the process to get the photo ID you claim voters should have. The DMV isn't in charge of or run the elections.
Quote
They should stick to fundamental rules. You register. You get ID. You should your ID and it is checked off vs the register.
So you should be able to register to vote before you get your ID?
Quote
You vote between 6am and 7pm at your registered polling place.
Why? To vote early you go to a legal polling place and go through the exact same process you do on election day. What is your fixation with this?
Quote
Everything else. Early voting, Mail in ballots, drop locations, etc... are all forms of cheating.
You have been shown time and time again that you are just plain wrong. Millions upon millions of Americans cast legal and valid votes through both early voting and voting by mail. Casting a legal vote is not cheating. Why do you think legal votes are cheating?
Quote
NFL games are played in a time span. Teas can only score points during that time span and only by members of their teams by a roster of legal players. You cannot use illegal players. Cannot score points before or after the game is played. Keep it simple. Everything else is cheating.....
Voting is a constitutional right and not a game. Your example is ridiculous. There is no game clock and nobody is "using" illegal players.
I'll grant you one thing. If nothing else you are hilarious!
The same process that millions of voters vote legally also allows illegal votes to happen. You can put your head in the sand and act like elections have not been stolen but they have. The process is broken. Keep it simple.
I at no point put my head in the sand. You have been shown just how few illegal votes were cast. And there hasn't been a single case of it shown to having occurred because of early voting. Rather than actually addressing those points you just drone on and on making false accusations and call millions upon millions of legal votes cast as cheating.
Trump's tactics don't work on everyone. Repeating the same thing over and over doesn't make it true. It does however seem to have worked on you.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Over time I have become increasingly curious how many illegal drugs you did in your youth. And if the answer is none you may be one of those rare exceptions where doing them may have helped.
So no response about New Jersey then I take it?
New Jersey proves how corrupt the election processes have become. Well over 6,000 illegals registered. That is alarming.
The election process? This was the process to get the photo ID you claim voters should have. The DMV isn't in charge of or run the elections.
Quote
They should stick to fundamental rules. You register. You get ID. You should your ID and it is checked off vs the register.
So you should be able to register to vote before you get your ID?
Quote
You vote between 6am and 7pm at your registered polling place.
Why? To vote early you go to a legal polling place and go through the exact same process you do on election day. What is your fixation with this?
Quote
Everything else. Early voting, Mail in ballots, drop locations, etc... are all forms of cheating.
You have been shown time and time again that you are just plain wrong. Millions upon millions of Americans cast legal and valid votes through both early voting and voting by mail. Casting a legal vote is not cheating. Why do you think legal votes are cheating?
Quote
NFL games are played in a time span. Teas can only score points during that time span and only by members of their teams by a roster of legal players. You cannot use illegal players. Cannot score points before or after the game is played. Keep it simple. Everything else is cheating.....
Voting is a constitutional right and not a game. Your example is ridiculous. There is no game clock and nobody is "using" illegal players.
I'll grant you one thing. If nothing else you are hilarious!
The same process that millions of voters vote legally also allows illegal votes to happen. You can put your head in the sand and act like elections have not been stolen but they have. The process is broken. Keep it simple.
It's hard not to laugh at this. You are telling people they have their head in the sand while parroting a narrative that has been debunked over and over and over again.
For the cost part, there are programs to mitigate or defer the financial cost of getting a license or state ID.
There certainly is help in some states but not neatly all. The issue is this will be, if passed, law across the nation. In many states such policies do not exist. I believe if you are going to pass a law nationwide the same should hold true in deferring the cost of the "required I.D." nationwide as well.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
It has not been debunked. Just because some media member says the narrative that no illegals have voted does not make it true.
Not media. Actual court cases and investigations. Usually led by Republicans.
You are missing a key distinction of the actual debate by your phrasing above. IMO, that's the only reason why this nonsense is still going on. Nobody has said that no illegals have voted. There are documented cases of people (not just illegals) casting votes when they shouldn't. What is being argued is whether this has happened on a large enough scale to have any sort of effect on election outcomes. This is what has been alleged by Trump and which is verifiably false. Despite numerous allegations and investigations, this has been consistently debunked over and over. This is largely because there is no credible evidence of widespread and/or coordinated voter fraud. Similarly, there is little to no disagreement on the idea that non-citizens should NOT vote. Go ahead and scrape the far corners/bowels of the internet for a 'gotcha' video, but nobody (at least on here) is trying to argue that non-citizens (legal or illegal) should vote.
Voter fraud is a non issue in real terms. We all agree fraud is bad, it should be prevented wherever possible. But the FACT is there is no widespread fraud. It is not happening on a scale to even register as a REAL issue.
Looking at the seven closest states, we find for instance that in Arizona, Heritage had to go back 25 years, over which there were 36 elections held and 42,626,379 ballots cast, in order to come up with 36 cases of fraud. The percentage of fraudulent votes was a minuscule .0000845%, and no election outcome was altered by ballot fraud throughout that time period. In the highly contested state of Pennsylvania, Heritage data goes back 30 years and covers 32 elections with over 100 million votes cast and found only 39 cases of voter fraud. As the table indicates, this is the case with all the other states where the vote is likely to be close. There were a handful of reported cases of fraud amongst millions and millions of ballots cast, and none of them shifted the election outcome.
Voter fraud is serious, which is why there are many protections built into the system to protect against fraud. In an effort to “pre-bunk” the inevitable accusations of fraud, election officials around the country are working hard to inform the voters on how voting actually works.
[b]And—in one of the least well-known aspects of the vote count—Democrats and Republicans have teams of lawyers, armed with depositions, that are allowed into the rooms where counting is going on. To assume massive amounts of voter fraud, you also have to assume that the Democrats or the Republicans have lawyers who are really dumb or just lazy, and neither is the case.[/b]
My 2 cents: Anyone believing this is a real issue has blindly and faithfully bought into lies spread and maintained and deliberately perpetuated by Trump and his sycophants. The facts are not hard to ascertain, to not want to grasp them is idiotic.
Last edited by mgh888; 07/24/2604:04 AM.
The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
For the cost part, there are programs to mitigate or defer the financial cost of getting a license or state ID.
I wish people would quit making the affordability claim. Anybody who wants an ID can afford to get one. They cost maybe $20 and are good for a number of years.
It's a stupid argument. Civic responsibility is real. As long as some states allow voting without ID, their election results should and will always be questioned. People who think that no ID required is a good thing have no problem with rigged election results.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.
[quote=oobernoober]People who think that no ID required is a good thing have no problem with rigged election results.
The issue of voting requirements and the need for ID's is a separate issue. At it's heart it is driven by fear and emotions that do not reflect the facts: As has been pointed out - there is no mass election fraud. There is are not and have not been rigged elections.
Using the ID argument to try to undermine the integrity of the elections is a fallacy.
The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
For the cost part, there are programs to mitigate or defer the financial cost of getting a license or state ID.
I wish people would quit making the affordability claim. Anybody who wants an ID can afford to get one. They cost maybe $20 and are good for a number of years.
It's a stupid argument. Civic responsibility is real. As long as some states allow voting without ID, their election results should and will always be questioned. People who think that no ID required is a good thing have no problem with rigged election results.
I agree with you, but I think there's still work to be done. IMO, it should be relatively painless for someone that should have a state/federal ID to get a state/federal ID. That's pie-in-the-sky type stuff, but it should be what the relevant agencies should be working towards.
But you are right (IMO). Civic responsibility should outweigh personal inconvenience.
Voting is a constitutional right. Any financial obstacles put in the way restricts that right. As I said, it's a 20 minute drive for me to get a state ID. It's less than about a 10 minute walk for me to vote.
Why would you call requiring someone with no transportation to travel 15-25 miles to get an ID their "civic responsibility"?
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
For the cost part, there are programs to mitigate or defer the financial cost of getting a license or state ID.
I wish people would quit making the affordability claim. Anybody who wants an ID can afford to get one. They cost maybe $20 and are good for a number of years.
It's a stupid argument. Civic responsibility is real. As long as some states allow voting without ID, their election results should and will always be questioned. People who think that no ID required is a good thing have no problem with rigged election results.
I agree with you, but I think there's still work to be done. IMO, it should be relatively painless for someone that should have a state/federal ID to get a state/federal ID. That's pie-in-the-sky type stuff, but it should be what the relevant agencies should be working towards.
But you are right (IMO). Civic responsibility should outweigh personal inconvenience.
I have no problem with that, nor making them really inexpensive if not free.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.
I guess my question is - is there really ANYONE on the planet that believes Trump won the 2020 election?
Everything else is posturing and trolling.
I only know what I have access to read or listen-to...but I do know/believe this:
Biden ran with an exceptionally unpopular VP choice in Kamala. Yet he received 15% more votes than did Obama running with Biden as his VP. That makes no sense.
Maybe I missed it, but I don't remember Kamala being Exceptionally Unpopular... I think that's a nutty Right Wing talking point that doesn't have legs....
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
For the cost part, there are programs to mitigate or defer the financial cost of getting a license or state ID.
I wish people would quit making the affordability claim. Anybody who wants an ID can afford to get one. They cost maybe $20 and are good for a number of years.
It's a stupid argument. Civic responsibility is real. As long as some states allow voting without ID, their election results should and will always be questioned. People who think that no ID required is a good thing have no problem with rigged election results.
I agree with you, but I think there's still work to be done. IMO, it should be relatively painless for someone that should have a state/federal ID to get a state/federal ID. That's pie-in-the-sky type stuff, but it should be what the relevant agencies should be working towards.
But you are right (IMO). Civic responsibility should outweigh personal inconvenience.
I have no problem with that, nor making them really inexpensive if not free.
I have one of those Drivers Licenses that have the star on it. I had to show my Birth Certificate and some other items to Verify who I am.
The Birth Cert I showed had the stamp on it... It was an Original.
Did you know that that is not an acceptable form of ID for the Save Act?
I'm convinced that the Save Act is nothing more than a way to suppress the vote. I thought that was illegal!
Last edited by Damanshot; 07/25/2607:50 AM.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
For the cost part, there are programs to mitigate or defer the financial cost of getting a license or state ID.
I wish people would quit making the affordability claim. Anybody who wants an ID can afford to get one. They cost maybe $20 and are good for a number of years.
It's a stupid argument. Civic responsibility is real. As long as some states allow voting without ID, their election results should and will always be questioned. People who think that no ID required is a good thing have no problem with rigged election results.
I agree with you, but I think there's still work to be done. IMO, it should be relatively painless for someone that should have a state/federal ID to get a state/federal ID. That's pie-in-the-sky type stuff, but it should be what the relevant agencies should be working towards.
But you are right (IMO). Civic responsibility should outweigh personal inconvenience.
I have no problem with that, nor making them really inexpensive if not free.
I have one of those Drivers Licenses that have the star on it. I had to show my Birth Certificate and some other items to Verify who I am.
The Birth Cert I showed had the stamp on it... It was an Original.
Did you know that that is not an acceptable form of ID for the Save Act?
I'm convinced that the Save Act is nothing more than a way to suppress the vote. I thought that was illegal!
The SAVE America Act defines acceptable forms of documentary proof of U.S. citizenship for federal elections as:
Real IDs indicating that the applicant is a U.S. citizen Valid (unexpired) U.S. passports Military identification cards along with service records indicating place of birth in the U.S.
A valid government-issued photo ID presented together with one of the following documents: a certified birth certificate a Record of Birth extract an adoption decree showing a U.S. place of birth a Consular Report of Birth Abroad a Naturalization Certificate or Certificate of Citizenship an American Indian Card with the classification “KIC” Many of these documents are relatively uncommon in the general population. For example, only five states issue Real IDs that indicate U.S. citizenship.
For the cost part, there are programs to mitigate or defer the financial cost of getting a license or state ID.
I wish people would quit making the affordability claim. Anybody who wants an ID can afford to get one. They cost maybe $20 and are good for a number of years.
It's a stupid argument. Civic responsibility is real. As long as some states allow voting without ID, their election results should and will always be questioned. People who think that no ID required is a good thing have no problem with rigged election results.
I agree with you, but I think there's still work to be done. IMO, it should be relatively painless for someone that should have a state/federal ID to get a state/federal ID. That's pie-in-the-sky type stuff, but it should be what the relevant agencies should be working towards.
But you are right (IMO). Civic responsibility should outweigh personal inconvenience.
I have no problem with that, nor making them really inexpensive if not free.
I have one of those Drivers Licenses that have the star on it. I had to show my Birth Certificate and some other items to Verify who I am.
The Birth Cert I showed had the stamp on it... It was an Original.
Did you know that that is not an acceptable form of ID for the Save Act?
I'm convinced that the Save Act is nothing more than a way to suppress the vote. I thought that was illegal!
You need two forms of identity. One proof of citizenship and one proof of residence. Both are very easy to obtain.
I do agree the Save Act is to suppress voting...illegal voting. Illegal voting can encompass many forms. It's not just about people in the country illegally.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.
The save act is so he can disrupt and control elections. Nothing else. Its not about IDs. Its about creating a fake reason to disrupt elections. Voter fraud is not a problem.
by the way Can you specifically name one rigged election result.
Yet as has been proven many, many times, illegal voting is so low and so rare it has never impacted an election. Not even anywhere close.
So please explain how a married woman must prove she is who her birth certificate says she is? Her last name isn't the same as her birth certificate. That means she certainly need more than "two types" of ID.
Don't blame anyone else that even at your age, trump has gotten you to believe the boogeyman still exists.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
The save act is so he can disrupt and control elections. Nothing else. Its not about IDs. Its about creating a fake reason to disrupt elections. Voter fraud is not a problem.
by the way Can you specifically name one rigged election result.
I do agree the Save Act is to suppress voting...illegal voting. Illegal voting can encompass many forms. It's not just about people in the country illegally.
This illegal voting that the SAVE Act is trying to suppress is the same voting that MAGA can't seem to prove is actually happening.
If they don't have the data on those voters, how do they know that 6,600 non citizens were added to the voter rolls in new Jersey? Maybe that's why the governor clams they have no legal basis?
And can they show where any non citizens voted?
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
The save act is so he can disrupt and control elections. Nothing else. Its not about IDs. Its about creating a fake reason to disrupt elections. Voter fraud is not a problem.
by the way Can you specifically name one rigged election result.
Repeat a lie often enough..... And here you are repeating it
This Falls squarely under the remit of spreading excrement per Steve Bannon
Last edited by mgh888; 07/29/2610:49 AM.
The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
This particular story has already been discussed in this forum. Only 400 out of those 6600 actually voted. No New jersey election was decided by 400 votes. Actually none where closer than several thousand votes.
So him posting that in response to "Can you specifically name one rigged election result" is just pure BS. But then again that's to be expected.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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