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Sorry DC,, I just got on here this morning.. as for others that think because I don't stay up all night to answer questions that I've somehow gone silent,, you are a wrong.. Your Question was: Quote:
Ok Daman... I need you to assess DA's game tonight... go for it.
PS: You aren't allowed to mention to pressure, the lack of a running game, or the stupid penalties.
How can you assess DA's game without looking at the entire offensive break down.. That's what I've been saying all along.. the variables are many..
For instance, DA Sucked last night.. but so did the Oline, the RB's, the Receivers...
That's just the O... the D wasn't any better.
I am not sure what you are driving at here DC,, but I don't believe you can accurately review a QB's performance without taking into consideration the other aspect of the game surrounding his play.
I mean, if the Oline had performed better, would DA have been able to do more? Logic says yes, but who knows for sure... nobody.
Had the Running game taken off like it was supposed to, would the Giants D been able to key on the pass defense.. logic says no, but again, who knows for sure?
So basically, I guess I can't assess his game last night accuratly without looking at the entire picture. and it was an ugly picture.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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and the crowd goes silent
What is it that you and DS44 want.. are you expecting people to sit up all night to respond.... Geez, at some point people need to sleep.,.
Ok, you have 3 minutes to respond..if you don't, then I'll assume I gotcha 
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Last edited by Damanshot; 08/19/08 09:18 AM.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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I think that you said it was the 2nd offensive series ...... and that included a hit as he threw, a loss of 1 on a run, and a 3rd and 11 which had Jaws commenting something along the lines of "The QB needs about 2 1/2 seconds to convert a 3rd and 11. Well, he didn't get it."
Jaws said a lot of things... and as I stated last night, in his opinion, nothing was ever the QBs fault. Jaws knows a heck of a lot more football than I do but I'm sorry, that 3rd down out of the endzone, the guy was open and DA bounced it to him.. he wasn't being hit, he wasn't even about to be hit, he just had an OL pushed back close to him... this is the NFL, if you can't make some throws under pressure and with the pocket collapsing, you won't be successful in the NFL
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Neither QB played well IMHO.
You can rationalize about 1st teams and 2nd teams and penalties and all of that other stuff and I will understand, but if you aren't prepared to admit that Quinn, in this one game, looked significantly better than DA... then I suppose we are done here.
yebat' Putin
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Here's what gets me ......
Statements like "We have a QB controversy here ...."
"Quinn should start" .....
"DA showed all the same stuff he did before" .....
Well .... who looked GOOD out there? Who?
I didn't think that DA did. He played reallly poorly.
I certainly didn't the the OL did. They played like crap.
I didn't think that the receivers did. No one stepped up with the 1st unit.
Our RBs didn't play well. (Unless you count a fumble for a 90 yard Giants TD as a good play)
So who exacty played well on the starting unit?
Now .... we start moving the ball .. finally .... only after the Giants go up 30-3 ..... and call even their backup dogs off.
We get one helluva play by a young WR ..... and one who I saw a poster say didn't play that well ... (which is a freakin' joke) that put a TD on the board instead of an INT. Bear in mind that the Giants' backups .. were in by then.
My list of players who played well is prety short. It does not include a QB. I didn't think that either of the top 2 guys played well. At all.
I do have to wonder what those who bash DA relentessly would have said if he had that exact same "INT picked off for a Browns TD" pass that Quinn did. I bet he'd be getting lambasted today.
One last observation ....... many of the reactions here on the board are exactly why fans don't make football decisions for an NFL team.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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but if you aren't prepared to admit that Quinn, in this one game, looked significantly better than DA... then I suppose we a}e done here.
Cow crap vs dog crap .... which one looks "significantly better"?
Like I said ... if Anderson had thrown that " picked off but turned into a Browns TD by a great effort from a WR" pass, he'd be getting his head handed to him today on the boards.
Last week I kept hearing about how all important completion percntage is ..... well without that miraculous effort from Steptoe, Quinn completes 50% of his passes for 80 yards and an INT. Do I consider that good? No. Do I consider that acceptable? No. Was there anything in Quinn's game last night that would indicate that he would have done any better at all against the Giants' starters? Nope. In fact, he had a series against them. We went 3 and out. Not really that big a deal in the larger scheme of things. Last night the Giants' outplayed the Browns in every aspect of the game.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Here's what gets me ......
Statements like "We have a QB controversy here ...."
"Quinn should start" .....
"DA showed all the same stuff he did before" .....
Well .... who looked GOOD out there? Who?
Well, let me tell you where I think that comes from... it comes from other comments like..
"DA went to the probowl last year."
"DA won 10 games last year."
Was DA the one who had to lay out when he was wide open against the Bengals and then roll into the endzone or was he the one giving himself 5 seconds to throw or was he the one getting his head taken off catching a 5 yard crossing route because the throw was 4 feet too high or was he the one who got to feast on some of the absolute worst defenses in football? No, he wasn't... so when the DA apologists start sharing the credit, then perhaps the DA detractors might be willing to share the blame...
The whole offensive unit looked awful, DA did nothing to make it look any better because he also looked awful. Quinn looked better, not great, but better. It was one game against arguably the best defensive first team in football.. so take it for what it's worth...
yebat' Putin
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"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
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but if you aren't prepared to admit that Quinn, in this one game, looked significantly better than DA...
OK, I'll admit Quinn played better than DA last night.. I can do that because I really think he did..
But there is a caviat attached... He was not SIGNIFCANTLY better, just better. Most of the time Quinn was in with the 2's against the Giants 2's..
See, it can't be done.. it just can't be done. you can't look at a QB without taking into consideration what's going on around him.
And NOBODY looked good last night..NOBODY.. so why would anyone choose to point out the QB and say,, he sucked... THEY ALL SUCKED.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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I was not trying to bait you and for the record, I am 13 hrs ahead of your time zone hence why I post before you wake up...  ALL I wanted to hear was WHAT YOU SAW with DA... Yes the WHOLE team played like ass but I was curious on what you see with DA (besides his stat line and the fact that we went 10-6 last year) It just seems that your posting on the subject is more influenced by the fact that DA is the starter because the FO says so... You were the biggest Frye supporter last year prior to his quick exit and I am NOT saying there is anything wrong with that but clearly pointing out that maybe if you would critique specific weaknesses and watch them play out, you could understand where the so called "DA Detractors" get their opinions from... Most of the time you have more spin than a DJ booth... Sure your not in Politics? 
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OK..,, it's been more than three minutes,,, and all is quiet
I gotta prod when I can... 
Hunter + Dart = This is the way.
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Funny, Ytown, but I remember last year after the first game of the season, you claimed it was an "excuse" when people pointed out, correctly, that DA didn't get sacked because the Steelers called off the dogs when he was in the game. Now it's a valid reason why Quinn played better.
The bottom line is that everyone can point to poor play by everyone, but the simple fact is that even when DA had time, he was bad. Even on the initial drive for the FG, he threw behind Stallworth on a sure first down throw if it's on the money.
I also notice your shot at BQ for Steptoe's great play. Having watched it about 10 times, I noticed something. That pass was going to drop perfectly into Steptoe's hands. The DB made and incredible play to get his hands on the ball. That doesn't excuse BQ on the play. Hopefully he learned that he needs to lead the WR a little more on that play as these aren't college DBs he's throwing against. It would be nice if ONE of our QBs could learn from their mistakes.
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I also notice your shot at BQ for Steptoe's great play. Having watched it about 10 times, I noticed something. That pass was going to drop perfectly into Steptoe's hands. The DB made and incredible play to get his hands on the ball
I mentioned this in another thread... Thought I was the only one that noticed...
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It would be nice if ONE of our QBs could learn from their mistakes.
I agree but it would most likely take an injury to DA for RAC to start Quinn... Our schedule is WAY too tough this year to HOPE that DA's light comes on...
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I was not trying to bait you and for the record, I am 13 hrs ahead of your time zone hence why I post before you wake up...
Wow,, 13 hours,,, no wonder.. you do know I was kidding don't you,, thus the
OK,, SO, let's make something clear, I'm not involved in politics.. in fact, I hate politicians as a general rule,, But don't get me started down that path, we could be here till midnight. (or in your case, 1pm tomorrow LOL )
You are right, I was a supporter of Frye last year, the reasons were simple. In camp and preseason, he was the better QB between him and Anderson.. the problem was that neither appeared good enough.. Frye looked a little better. No way did Quinn appear ready.. But I liked how he guided his team of scrubs.. he was a leader.. and I said so a million times. Anderson was actually my odd man out if you will remember.
But since that time, and since the emergence of DA last season, I've learned my lesson. and that lesson is, to root for one QB over the other is insane.. just doesn't make sense to me. So I've changed my "rooting" thought process to one where it doesn't matter who is under center as long as we are winning.
Of course, there has to be a caviat to that as well. if the QB is sensational but our D is like a big giant hole that teams run through, then the QB isn't the problem.. So it's not even JUST about winning. There is way more to it then, "we lost, fire the QB or Coach or OC or GM or the Grounds Keeper."
We see a lot of that around here... a very respected poster on this board, one that I like a lot, put up a thread after the first Pittsburgh game last year calling for RAC to be fired.. he and I had a few go rounds about it. I thought it was Knee Jerk.. Just like I think throwing Anderson under the bus after yesterday is knee jerk...
As for DA being the starter because the FO says so,, what's wrong with that.. I mean, can you name ONE person on this board that knows more than RAC?
Can you name me one person on this board that has been to every practice and has seen, first hand, who does what in the classroom?
Don't stress here.. of course there isn't anyone on this board that knows more about Football in general or the players on this team than RAC.. It was rhetorical.
But are there people on here that THINK they know more than RAC and will knock a guy like me that knows he DOESN'T know as much as RAC? You bet there is.. want thier names? Just kidding.
And what basis do they use to measure a QB? Let's see,, Footwork, handsize, throwing motion. Hell, if it were really always that cut and dry, Kosar wouldn't have ever been in the NFL..
I get called (lately) a guy that follows the company line. That's pretty interesting since I don't know the company line at all anyway.
But I do know this.. RAC, Savage, Lerner, Chud, etc etc.. know a hellava lot more than I do. And they've earned my trust by deeds and actions..NOT WORDS.
So if they are saying that DA is the better fit for today, then I"m good to go with that.. Why some think that's a bad thing is beyond me...
If that makes me sound like a politician.. sorry,, but donate to my campaign fund please
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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bottom line: take what the D will give you. i see no problem with this.
![[Linked Image from s84.photobucket.com]](http://s84.photobucket.com/albums/k4/okphi1124/th_untitled.jpg) WOOF!WOOF!WOOF!WOOF!WOOF!WOOF!WOOF!WOOF!WOOF!WOOF!WOOF!
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Hey Daman, I would tend to agree with many of your view points. (I'm sure your threilled! LOL)
I would not fault DA for the offenses dreadful performance I would, in fact, slam the OL. One that has cost us quite a bit of money and needs to play up to their potential instead of being tossed around like rag dolls.
Hell, I don't even blame Lewis for the fumble, though it was a bad play, then again, he doesn't fumble very much so I'll relax on a preseason blooper, LOL.
The OL rarely gave DA a chance to plant his feet and make a solid pass, he had pressure coming from everywhere on just about every play. It was insane and humiliating. I'm confident that our OL is better than what they showed Monday night.
Our DL did the same thing and their inept performance trickled down to the LB's. So we got steam rolled by the Giants running game. W'e're lucky to have gotten that last possesion, if NYG keeps running the ball we probably don't get a shot.
Ok, looks like DA will be out for most of, if not the rest of, preseason. Quinn will get a great chance to show what he can do with the 1st team. So, I'm wondering if a stellar showing by Quinn will get him a chance aat starting against Dallas? I think it would but RAC, Savage are sticking behind DA, and I'm not giving up on him just yet. I just see an overall crisper offense when Quinn is in! (of course it would help DA if the OL would protect him.)
Oh, I think Quinn proved last night that he's not a dink and dunk passer, just rebutting the thread title. LOL
![[Linked Image from i89.photobucket.com]](http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k233/marctheshark1969/thrandelelisafaggot.jpg)
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Even on the initial drive for the FG, he threw behind Stallworth on a sure first down throw if it's on the money.
Yep...Another one of those WTF WAS THAT tosses...
YAC left on the field...AGAIN...   
Nothing pisses me off more than those throws...
Go Browns!!!
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I think that Quinn played well. I don't think he tore it up out there, but he played well. He put points up for us.
Kind of surprised someone would say that he didn't play well.
Steptoe was probably the highlight of the game, though.
![[Linked Image from pic18.picturetrail.com]](http://pic18.picturetrail.com/VOL905/3216203/6567769/349897772.jpg) "The Browns' defense is kicking mucho dupa."
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Ahh Rabid.,.. I get your drift, But I can't lay all the blame on the Oline.. It's pretty much a totally screwed up performance by the entire Offense... plenty of blame to go around I think.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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I mean,, DA puts 6 passes in to Braylons edwards hands and he drops them all... That's 6 incompletions,,, no matter how you slice it it's 6 incompletions.. looking at that, maybe the thought is, DA is Falling apart.. but upon further review.. it's not DA..
That's why you look at "DA". If he hits BE in stride and BE drops it, you have to say that DA "did a good job" on those passes. Just like when Bernie would throw one away instead of taking a sack. That's the entire point Damon.
And at the opposite end of the spectrum, if BE or KW2 make "acrobatic grabs", you don't give the credit for "accuracy" on those passes, but give the recievers credit for making a tough grab.
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So, you just qualified your response... As long as he's not the reason, then you would keep him in.. but you don't want me to do that, you want me to respond to your ifs without considering the variables..
Qualified or not, I would have appreciated those answers rather than some "vague concept". You just refuse to say you can evaluate a player without looking at "the team". And I say you can evaluate "what each player does" in and of themself.
So yes, if a QB is "accurate", that doesn't mean all of the balls will be caught. But he either hits them in stride most of the time, or he doesn't. When the OL collapses? He can either scramble, use his head and throw it away or get that "deer in the headlights look".
And you can judge that on "his reactions" not the teams.
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It's nonsense...
Back at ya!
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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How can you assess DA's game without looking at the entire offensive break down.. That's what I've been saying all along.. the variables are many..
So basically, I guess I can't assess his game last night accuratly without looking at the entire picture. and it was an ugly picture.
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My guess is that the critique will be vague and look earily similar to a middle of the road opinion...
Nailed it!
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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You really are ticked at me for not playing your game aren't ya WOW,,
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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You really are ticked at me for not playing your game aren't ya
WOW,,
Not really. I didn't expect you would. That would take some "commitment" in your true beliefs and wouldn't leave you "wiggle room" later.
That would have been quite "unDamonlike".
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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So you are saying it's better to make bold, unsupportable statements as if they were fact and then argue with people that don't agree..
Yup, you are correct, to do that would be very un ME like!
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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but making bold, unsupportable statements is what being a Dawgtalker is all about!
WOOF!WOOF!WOOF!WOOF!WOOF!WOOF!WOOF!WOOF!WOOF!WOOF!WOOF!
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but making bold, unsupportable statements is what being a Dawgtalker is all about!
Okie Dokie...
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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but making bold, unsupportable statements is what being a Dawgtalker is all about!
Hardly think so .. We have some very football smarts folks on the board ... Oh yea , Hard headed and stubborn too Just ask me ..
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#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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oh my bad. . . [/sarcasm] there. that should do it.
WOOF!WOOF!WOOF!WOOF!WOOF!WOOF!WOOF!WOOF!WOOF!WOOF!WOOF!
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honestly I wouldn't care who the QB is, if he can win games. The OL didn't give DA much time but when he did have time he threw bad ball's. I think the Cleveland Browns got punch in the mouth in the first quarter and didn't know how to take it with being the talk of the conference this year. Everyone says well Quinn is in the game when the 2nd string was in there, well that is what he is use to playing, he is the 2nd string QB. No excuses, they got their butt whipped. Could be a good thing and bring their heads out of the clouds. GO BROWNS
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oh my bad. . . [/sarcasm] there. that should do it.
Much better : Thank you  ... ( Serious )
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So you are saying it's better to make bold, unsupportable statements as if they were fact and then argue with people that don't agree..
Yup, you are correct, to do that would be very un ME like!
You know as well as I do that if a pass is "accurate" it will hit a WR in stride. If not, it's not accurate.
But if you wish to speak in semantics, rather than football, that's fine too..............
So you have "no measurables" that you are looking for to gauge DA's progress or lack there of? I sure hope the FO has...........
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Pit,, give it up, I'm not going to play your game.. it's getting old and boring already.. I said what I'm going to say and you can sit here and twist it anyway you want... have fun
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Which means you've given "no measurables" that you have to indicate DA's progress or lack there of.
If you have any, you refuse to give them.
How is that "innacurate" or "spinning" anything?
I saw his weaknesses and look for improvement in those areas. That shows a player is "growing".
You don't seem to share that view. That's fine...........
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Hall of Famer
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Which means you've given "no measurables" that you have to indicate DA's progress or lack there of.
If you have any, you refuse to give them.
How is that "innacurate" or "spinning" anything?
I saw his weaknesses and look for improvement in those areas. That shows a player is "growing".
You don't seem to share that view. That's fine...........
I can't read this "Dink/Dunk" crap...
Is anyone still moanin' about Quinn bein' a "Dinker"?
He layed a couple nice ones to the deep sidelines Monday night...
Go Browns!!!
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Legend
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Legend
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I don't hear a lot about that in this thread...........  But we'll see a lot of him this week.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Legend
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Legend
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I don't hear a lot about that in this thread...........
But we'll see a lot of him this week.
That we will. The Lions are a good team to start out against....pretty weak. Anything less than a great game will be a disappointment.
In a way, almost a no-win situation for the guy. Playing well against the lions isn't any great feat.
Kind of sucks when the shoe is on the other foot.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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All Pro
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All Pro
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Anything less than a great game will be a disappointment. . . In a way, almost a no-win situation for the guy. Playing well against the lions isn't any great feat.
exactly. he'll be picked apart no matter what. he could have a 400+ yard game with a trio of TD passes and still get bashed for it having been against the kittens up north, not to mention the crap it'll stir up with those that still believe there's a QB controversey.
WOOF!WOOF!WOOF!WOOF!WOOF!WOOF!WOOF!WOOF!WOOF!WOOF!WOOF!
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I'll bet we see an INT by Bodden and a monster game from Rodgers. It's just how these things work.
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but making bold, unsupportable statements is what being a Dawgtalker is all about!
and there's no better example than this thread.
"too many notes, not enough music-"
#GMStong
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Quinn a dink and dunk passer?
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