Quote: What FDR did during the great depression is a lot of the reason we are snowballing toward socialism. He actually prolonged the depression with the things he did.
And if I remember correctly, seven years into they admitted that all the government spending did not help!
Quote: If the GOV does nothing(like bush for the past 3-4 years) that WAS his approach. Then we are going to hit rock bottom(yes we have not hit rock bottom yet) and i'm not so sure we can afford that.
Ummmm, Bush tried to turn off the mortgage factory on 2005, but Barney Frank, and Harry Reid said hell no, Fannie Mae and Freddy Mac are doing GREAT!
Quote: This country was built on the back of had working americans (most of which never went to college. The country has been going down hill NOT because people are not going to college, but because our government has let the big companies ship all the manufacturing jobs over seas
Oh, it's the governments fault? I thought they were everyone's saving grace? Was the government supposed to force a company where to set up manufacturing operations? It seems like only heavily unionized industries, like car and steel manufacturers, were strongly effected by NAFTA.
In my opinion, the unions are responsible for the manufacturing job transfer OUT of this county. The unions and their workers got greedy and forced the companies hand as the nasty, rich share holders demanded something called PROFIT! Face it, workers in other countries are much cheaper.
I am sure you'll disagree vehemently....based on your username.
Quote: I never said that all people have to or should attend, only that everyone thats wants to, shouldn't be held back by money. Knowledge shouldn't have an exorbitant price on it.
If you can read then you can learn as much as your determination and intelligence allows.
Books and the internet don't cost that much. Online education is booming. There are alternatives out there to the big schools.
Quote: If you can read then you can learn as much as your determination and intelligence allows.
A very good point, I totally agree.
Quote: Books and the internet don't cost that much. Online education is booming.
This is true, but mostly for business type of degrees at this point. Can you get a mechanical engineering degree? A fine arts degree in music composition? A degree in microbiology? Not yet. But it's definitely something to look forward to.
Maybe this is something that could make secondary education more open to masses. It's more cost effective, takes less time on a teacher's part, and allows the student to complete a course at their leisure, thus making it more cost effective and allowing for cheaper credit hours .... I like it
Quote: This is true, but mostly for business type of degrees at this point. Can you get a mechanical engineering degree? A fine arts degree in music composition? A degree in microbiology?
I am not sure about all degrees and would have to go online to check.
I do know that most software engineering / web mastering certifications/training are available through online schools. Working in the software arena myself, I know these are starting to become just as valuable, if not more so, than a computer science degree, as an employer has some sort of measuring stick to rate candidates by.
Quote: I do know that most software engineering / web mastering certifications/training are available through online schools.
Absolutely. And they are very valuable. A friend of mine did the microsoft certification one. He now gets Windows products for free while he stays certified lucky guy
Quote: This is true, but mostly for business type of degrees at this point. Can you get a mechanical engineering degree? A fine arts degree in music composition? A degree in microbiology?
I am not sure about all degrees and would have to go online to check.
I do know that most software engineering / web mastering certifications/training are available through online schools. Working in the software arena myself, I know these are starting to become just as valuable, if not more so, than a computer science degree, as an employer has some sort of measuring stick to rate candidates by.
You are absolutley right. You can have a college degree in a computer science and it is pretty much useless if you dont have certifications.
KING
You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
Quote: Defense Secretary Robert Gates is requiring officials working out the details of the next fiscal year's defense budget to keep their discussions "secret" and he's gone the extra step to ensure the secrecy.
So what.. why would they want to release any info until the budget is done. Makes sense to me. Now, if upon completion and release, they keep it secret.. that might be a concern.
However, remember something, you aren't talking aboiut the post office budget here. you are talking about our defense budget.
That's a lot different and that can't fall into the wrong hands.... so don't look for complete disclosure ever on this item
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
Ahh so If you hired an accountant to do "YOUR" budget for you...but he wouldn't let you see anything because it was "secret" until it was all "done"....I suppose you would have no problems with that????
I have no problems with certain things being considered secret for matters of national security...but this looks more like a ploy to push MORE things through in a manner so people cannot know about them and raise a stink about them because they are A uneccessary, B Pork, or C just plain wasteful.
I don't like this...I don't like this one single bit....
I thought I was wrong once....but I was mistaken...
What's the use of wearing your lucky rocketship underpants if nobody wants to see them????
Quote: Ahh so If you hired an accountant to do "YOUR" budget for you...but he wouldn't let you see anything because it was "secret" until it was all "done"....I suppose you would have no problems with that????
I have no problems with certain things being considered secret for matters of national security...but this looks more like a ploy to push MORE things through in a manner so people cannot know about them and raise a stink about them because they are A uneccessary, B Pork, or C just plain wasteful.
I don't like this...I don't like this one single bit....
What part of "let's get a budget DONE before we look at the numbers" aren't you comprehending?
I guess your accountant should make you sit in his office all day while he's looking at the numbers and crunching them. Not hardly.
He'd put a budget together and THEN go over it with you.
Geesh. How desperate are you guys?
Never mind. I've been reading the thread.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Oh Pit,, I try, I really try, but there is a certain level of anger and distrust that I don't remember the folks that voted for the Democrat in 2000...
There is a level of disrespect that astounds me..
Yes, I try to laugh at it, but sometimes, the silliest thing gets blown out of whack...
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
Quote: Ahh so If you hired an accountant to do "YOUR" budget for you...but he wouldn't let you see anything because it was "secret" until it was all "done"....I suppose you would have no problems with that????
My budget and the budget for the department of DEFENSE are completely different. Openly knowing about what I plan to spend on Car payments or Rum and Cokes won't damage or harm the country..., Knowing how much we plan on spending on weapons of various types... now that's something that could hurt this country.
Your analogy was just silly.. way off base, completely without merit as it relates to the subject matter.
But Pete,,,, I still think your a great guy,, just disagree with ya.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
Distrust? I don't trust him. Of course, I didn't trust Bush, either. Matter of fact, I don't trust any of them. Why? Because they are dealing with our money.
Disrespect? You bet. All of them. Why? Because they think I am too stupid to make my own choices and decisions regarding MY life.
Quote: but there is a certain level of anger and distrust that I don't remember the folks that voted for the Democrat in 2000...
You mean like the ones who refused to accept that they lost and claimed for years after (and some still do) that the election was stolen? You actually don't remember the distrust and anger from them?
And I will add, while our country was still in the handbasket on its way to hell back then, it seemed to be moving at a much slower pace... the handbasket is now on the express train to hell.. so yeh, there is a little less trust and people are a little quicker to anger....
If it was Bush's defense secretary making people sign oaths of secrecy two days after Bush promised full budget disclosure, specifying defense in his claim...you'd go bonkers.
I do remember the resentment immediately following the election.. certainly I do, But remember I voted for Bush and even I was amazed that Gore actually won the popular vote and lost the election.. I remember saying, knowing MY guy won, that I wondered how that could happen.
But I don't remember resentment after Bush became President. I remember that Clinton Staffers took all the Ws off the typewriters and keyboards.... (actually, I remember laughing at that as being somewhat creative,, but childish at the same time)
When I first started to respond to you, I thought, maybe I'm just feeling it so much because the guy I voted for won.. then I realized, the guy I voted for in the last 3 elections won.... so thats not it.
I think there is a hatrid and distrust of this president that I don't ever remember happening before. not in my lifetime.
I'm not sure what people want from this adminstration. I mean, OK, let's not do any stimulus packages or bailouts for anyone or any company... just stop spending... I promise you, Tax cuts won't even come close to fixing things.
Jindal places a bunch of faith in the power of the people... but if they are starving and living in Fridge boxes under some inner city bridge,, how inventive and powerful do you suppose they would be.
I hear lots of "what obama is doing will kill America" But I hear little to nothing else that remotely seems likely to help the nation and for that matter, the world out of this mess.
Not sure, but to me it seems like an unconstructive way to get things done.
And I haven't even brought up about all the Republicans on Twitter DURING the presidents address to congress on Tuesday.
It's almost a little like, Damn the country, damn the people,,, we gotta do anything we can to sabotage this president so we have a shot at the next election.
Call me crazy if you want, but that's not productive and it can't be good for you and me.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
Quote: Wasn't it you that said you "give respect to everybody" a while back? Just checking......
Where did I not give respect? And for the record... I said that I give everybody initial respect, they either keep it or lose it..... it was a counterpoint to a post by somebody that said others had to earn their respect implying that on first meeting somebody, they deserved no respect....... By no means did I state that I respect everybody eternally regardless of the stupid things they do...
Quote: Oh Pit,, I try, I really try, but there is a certain level of anger and distrust that I don't remember the folks that voted for the Democrat in 2000...
Wow .... you must have a short memory.
The hatred was vile, persistent, and damn near a tangible thing ........ and hung in the air like smoke used to in Ohio bars.
Democrats weren't singing kum buh ya by any stretch of the imagination.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Quote: If it was Bush's defense secretary making people sign oaths of secrecy two days after Bush promised full budget disclosure, specifying defense in his claim...you'd go bonkers.
That all depends Phil. Are you talking about before or after we attacked Iraq? I really didn't question Bush much up until that point.
And I actually try to look at what a person says. And until such time as he refuses to show how, why or actually "hides a part of the budget", so far, he's kept his word. Now once that budget is set, I expect disclosure of the defense budget.
But I'll give you this. When and if he gives me cause to be suspicious of him, much like Bush, I will be. I don't really care what party he belongs to. Because I don't belong to either party.
It all weighs on merrit and how trustworthy a person is, regardless of party. Bush shown early that he wasn't cut out to be either trusted or compitant. Not sure exactly which one at this juncture. If I see those same traits in Obama, I will handle it the exact same way I did with Bush. Suspicious and wary.....
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Quote: And for the record... I said that I give everybody initial respect, they either keep it or lose it..... it was a counterpoint to a post by somebody that said others had to earn their respect implying that on first meeting somebody, they deserved no respect.......
You are 100% correct. I guess the biggest difference is "treating someone with respect" is far different than "giving someone respect".
To me, those are two completely seperate things independant of one another. Everyone should be "respectfull" of each other. It would be a far more pleasant planet to live on IMO
But to actually have respect "for a person", it is something that must be earned.
Quote: By no means did I state that I respect everybody eternally regardless of the stupid things they do...
So if a person "does what they say they'll do", that isn't worthy of respect? If a person lives up to their promises, that isn't worthy of respect?
Just looking for clarification. Because I know a lot of people who I disagree with, that I still respect as people. And in most cases, it's because they live up to their word.
JMHO
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Quote: Oh Pit,, I try, I really try, but there is a certain level of anger and distrust that I don't remember the folks that voted for the Democrat in 2000...
Wow .... you must have a short memory.
The hatred was vile, persistent, and damn near a tangible thing ........ and hung in the air like smoke used to in Ohio bars.
Democrats weren't singing kum buh ya by any stretch of the imagination.
The extreme folks hated Bush from the get go. I think your feelings there are a little misguided.
The marjority of the country and the world was behind him after 9/11. He screwed the pooch on that one. The best part is, he was one of the most liberal presidents we ever had, and the republicans were all about it. Now that the spending is coming from the other side its going to run the country into the ground...
It seems very apparent that the hatred towards Obama without giving him a chance is a lot deeper than the hatred towards Bush. Time will tell how it turns out.
Ytown, I think I answered this a few posts up.. I really can't add to that so please take a moment and read that one.. maybe it will make sense to you,, maybe it won't
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
Quote: Ahh so If you hired an accountant to do "YOUR" budget for you...but he wouldn't let you see anything because it was "secret" until it was all "done"....I suppose you would have no problems with that????
My budget and the budget for the department of DEFENSE are completely different. Openly knowing about what I plan to spend on Car payments or Rum and Cokes won't damage or harm the country..., Knowing how much we plan on spending on weapons of various types... now that's something that could hurt this country.
Your analogy was just silly.. way off base, completely without merit as it relates to the subject matter.
But Pete,,,, I still think your a great guy,, just disagree with ya.
oh really?
This man would tend to Disagree with you
oh here is the link from the National Archives, read his speech for yourself...then again im labeled a "Conspiracy Theorist"..Rolls his eyes
Change like -- quit saying one thing and doing another, Mr. President. You are NOT for smaller government and bills free of earmarks. Does HE even read these things?
Quote: So if a person "does what they say they'll do", that isn't worthy of respect? If a person lives up to their promises, that isn't worthy of respect?
If I promised you I was going home at lunch time to punch my wife in the face and then did it, I have met your requirements for respect.
Now..
If in my campaign I state in no uncertain terms that lobbyists will have no place in my government and then my very first appointee is a former lobbyist... have I done what I said I would do?
If I declare that I'm going to have full disclosure and rid DC of corruption and bring integrity back to government but 3 of my first cabinet appointees were secretly trying to clear up back taxes to avoid scandal after being nominated... have I done what I said I was going to do?
If I state that I'm going to go through budgets and spending bills line by line and I'm going to rid them of pork and earmarks because government needs to control spending and then in my first 40 days I print over a trillion dollars of new money and pass spending bills loaded with billions and billions of dollars in pork and earmarks... have I done what I said I was going to do?
I lost a lot of respect for Bush because he ran as a fiscal conservative and failed miserably at that... it just didn't take Obama nearly as long to get there...
Oh Pit,, I try, I really try, but there is a certain level of anger and distrust that I don't remember the folks that voted for the Democrat in 2000...
There is a level of disrespect that astounds me..
Yes, I try to laugh at it, but sometimes, the silliest thing gets blown out of whack...
Honestly Daman, you can't possibly say that with a straight face. Of course, I have to remember you did this when pretending to be undecided during most of the election.
I think Obama could do anything in some of your eyes and if Bush had done the same you would have come off your rocker.
The disrespect for Bush and the hand-wringing, and whining and crying, and name calling was off the charts compared to this one. Anyone with two eyes, two ears, and half a brain can see that.....unless they just refuse to, to back "their" guy.
It was not that long ago that George Bush was President and the opinion of many was that Bush was the dumbest, most irresponsible, most Naziesque man the planet has seen since... well since Hitler.
Obama was going to be such a breath of fresh air, all things would be made new again, life... as they say, was going to be good..
Now it seems that as long as Obama just appears to be marginally better than Bush and because he gives a good speech, well that's good enough... and if he screws up we'll just say, well look what Bush did...
There is a reason Bush had the approval rating that he did, because most Republicans turned on him... we tried to support him for as long as we could with a clean conscious but slowly over time, we started abandoning him.... because he was not who we thought he was...
Unfortunately Obama appears to be EXACTLY who we thought he was...
Quote: It was not that long ago that George Bush was President and the opinion of many was that Bush was the dumbest, most irresponsible, most Naziesque man the planet has seen since... well since Hitler.
That is very true.. the difference that people like me thought some of that after Bush had been president for 7 years.. not 7 weeks.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
I don't know how long it took you.. but quite a few were of that opinion well before he ran against John Kerry.... which would have been 3 to 3 1/2 years in.. regardless, still much longer than 7 weeks...
I will also concede that Bush didn't inherit the immediate nightmare that Obama did (his nightmare occurred about 8 months later).... but Obama (and the democrats) are responding to this nightmare in the very way many of us thought they would.. spend, spend, spend... expand government control... spend, spend, spend.... and the fact that so many of his initial cabinet appointees turned out the way they did certainly didn't help his immediate credibility...
Quote: I don't know how long it took you.. but quite a few were of that opinion well before he ran against John Kerry.... which would have been 3 to 3 1/2 years in.. regardless, still much longer than 7 weeks...
I voted for Bush twice so at least 4 years for me. I think I started to turn sour on Bush when I began to see the results of his actions and how they seemed almost like a Meglomanic (sp)
I'm guessing that my feeling for him began to change in his 6th or early 7 year in office.
I voted for Bush twice and I've explained why before so I won't bore you with those details again, but basically, along the way, I didn't agree with every single thing he did, just like I'm not agreeing with everything that this adminstration is doing at the moment either. I have my concerns....
But in all fairness, I think some of these things need to play out. I will never contend that I know everything... nobody on here does. So I try to hold any anger towards things until they have a chance to play themselves out.
There is ALWAYS a faction that will want immediate results from a new adminstration. It's totally true that you can't please all of the people all of the time. So it's expected that some folks will clamor about ANY move made.
Yes, there were detractors that really were trying to crush Bush.. But 9/11 came along and almost to a person, people united behind his leadership. JMO, but I thought he did a pretty decent job of handleing things at that moment in time.
Quote: I will also concede that Bush didn't inherit the immediate nightmare that Obama did (his nightmare occurred about 8 months later)....
I'm glad you said that DC... it's really true. That's not to say that Bush had no real challenges when he first took office.. but nothing like this economic mess on his first day anyway...
Our nation is headed for disaster if we don't do something.
Ahh, but that "something" is the where folks disagree.
So to that end, I'm doing the same thing I did with Bush,, I'm letting Obama make the moves he finds necessary and do the things he thinks are best for the country. That is NOT to say that I agree with every single move, But I intend to let it play out before I judge him and his actions.
When people jump on me for supporting Obama cause I voted for him, I kinda get a kick out of it,, I did the same thing with Bush. If nothing else, I'm consistent.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, if both sides of the isle don't come together soon on a plan, then we are heading straight to hell and it won't be JUST obama that drove us there. (some will blame him anyway)
Republicans need to fight for what they think is right without all the Bull and the efforts to excite the masses into hysteria and Democrats have to put the power they have aside as well.. Dems have to stop just pushing things through without regard to what the other side is saying. They need to put aside thier differences and get the job done right. Until they start to act like partners,, this isn't gonna work.
The above is just my opinion....
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
Bush didn't inherit the mess we're in today ..... but he did inherit an economy careening towards a recession, and a stock market that had taken a beating.
The problem today us partially that the tactics used by the government back then worked. It was like a person getting shot in the chest ..... and having someone else pours some liquid bandage in it ...... tape it up really good .... pump them full of pain killers and calling them cured. They might live a while ...... might even feel better ...... but that chest wound is still there ..... and will never heal properly .... and ultimately the patient winds worse off than before because their condition which could have been treated, never was.
So ... here's where we are today ......
We are baling out and stimulating things to the tune of roughly $2 trillion that we don't have, and that the government just printed up out of thin air .........
Last year's estimated tax receipts were $2.85 trillion .....
The federal budget was somewhere in the range of $3 trillion .......
Adding this to the effects of running deficit after deficit for years now creates a total government debt of roughly $10 trillion dollars .....
Next year's projected budget is $3,5 trillion ....... and it's more than likely that tax receipts will decline substancially .... adding to the deficit for next year ......
We still haven't accounted for the $2 trillion we just spent on stimulus and baliouts .....
The Fed used monetary policy manipulating interest rates as a hedge against inflation .....
The Fed rate is now at .25% .... and once we hit zero, there's only one way to go ...... and there goes our main weapon against inflation ......
Unemployment has hit the highest level since the 80s ......
Our main economic indicator, new home sales, has slipped something like 10%, which is well beyond the worse case senarios set forth by the "experts" .....
So .... sooner or later we're going to have to buck up and accept some pain as a consequence of healing this broken economy of ours. Unfortunately, no one on either side of the aisle wants to allow that to happen ...... so they collaberate on ways to extend and worsen the patients condition, while trying to pump it full of feel good drugs so it won't notice its own demise.
I'm not blaming Democrats or Republicans. I'm blaming BOTH. They both worked quite hard getting us to this point where major surgery is now necessary for the patient to recover. Instead of having a relatively short convalescence, now we're in for a long, painful, and arduous ordeal.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
lucky guy 
