So it sounds like to me,the following criteria to get in the RNR HOF is the following..
1.blues artist 2. rap artist 3. a band who couldn't even finish a American Tour 4. if your a singer that goes by your 1st or last name 5.Or a band that has something tragic happen in its history
Quote: So it sounds like to me,the following criteria to get in the RNR HOF is the following..
1.blues artist 2. rap artist 3. a band who couldn't even finish a American Tour 4. if your a singer that goes by your 1st or last name 5.Or a band that has something tragic happen in its history
Quote: What criteria would you use for the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame? How would you decide who gets in and who doesn't?
I'd use longevity, number of hits, record sales, concert attendence figures and gear sales. That's a pretty fair representation of what the fans think.
From a non statistical standpoint, I don't know if there is a way to set criteria we could all agree on.
First and foremost, one hit wonders don't belong in the HOF as performers. But if they were prolific music writers with a string of hits, that's pretty important.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
Quote: What criteria would you use for the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame? How would you decide who gets in and who doesn't?
I'd use longevity, number of hits, record sales, concert attendence figures and gear sales. That's a pretty fair representation of what the fans think.
From a non statistical standpoint, I don't know if there is a way to set criteria we could all agree on.
First and foremost, one hit wonders don't belong in the HOF as performers. But if they were prolific music writers with a string of hits, that's pretty important.
So we rule out Jimi Hendrix based on longevity, number of hits, and concert attendance. But a band like KISS that did nothing to form RnR (outside of GWAR, lol) gets in. OK, I knew a KISS fan in high school that had this really great mustache, and all the girls loved him.
The one criterion we should all agree on is that KISS sucks. I remember going to the record store and seeing the special "4 album" release of these untalented losers putting out simultaneous solo albums. This allowed four times as much crappy music out at the same time. Oh, boy. The close out bin was filled for months.
any act that goes in the RNR HOF Fame should have left sort of impression and influence on rock and roll music. KISS is proof that you don't have to be musical virtuoso's to be successful Paul Stanley and Gene Simmons will admit they aren't greatest musicians. Ace Frehley can't even read music. but somehow they made it work as a unit. They took the rock concert spectacle up to another level. They detested the bands that just got up on stage and and stayed in one spot and as they put it.."looked at their shoes". they felt it was insulting to the fans. KISS felt the fans deserved more at a concert. Whoever says that their music sucks..really can't back up that claim at all..its a generalization. KISS has always been about melody and punch....catchy chorouses.....they never preached about politics..they just put out music that celebrates loving music and life.....and woman.... all these over the top rock shows..it began with KISS KISS also influenced alot of bands ......and gave alot of bands their 1st tours.
I wouldn't say KISS shouldn't get in...I'd just argue a band like Chicago should get in first.
Chicago raised the bar. Their first album was in 69....the height of the psychedelic movement on one end and the Beatles exploring their creativity leading to their break-up.
All of a sudden Chicago shows up with a horn section! Unhead of...and it worked.
I know, Chicago became a top 40 ballad band as that is what sells and gets played, but those guys could rock out.
The sound quality isn't the best, but this is the original band whiched has morphed a few times.
Terry Kath was a great guitar player. I read a article where when Hendrix was asked who he listened to, he said Terry Kath was the guitar player he listened to.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.
I saw them in Berlin Germany in 1980 on their short Euro tour then afterwards Bonham died. It was Zeps last show ever I believe with the original lineup.
Quote: any act that goes in the RNR HOF Fame should have left sort of impression and influence on rock and roll music. KISS is proof that you don't have to be musical virtuoso's to be successful Paul Stanley and Gene Simmons will admit they aren't greatest musicians. Ace Frehley can't even read music. but somehow they made it work as a unit. They took the rock concert spectacle up to another level. They detested the bands that just got up on stage and and stayed in one spot and as they put it.."looked at their shoes". they felt it was insulting to the fans. KISS felt the fans deserved more at a concert. Whoever says that their music sucks..really can't back up that claim at all..its a generalization. KISS has always been about melody and punch....catchy chorouses.....they never preached about politics..they just put out music that celebrates loving music and life.....and woman.... all these over the top rock shows..it began with KISS KISS also influenced alot of bands ......and gave alot of bands their 1st tours.
I hate to get your officially licensed KISS Underoo panties in a bunch, but how old are you? Were you alive in the 70s? Seriously.
Alice Cooper, for one, did all the "over the top" KISS stuff before KISS even had a clue. "It all began with KISS" is a huge joke. They did nothing! NOTHING! Well, they did suck in a bunch of ignorant teenage boys into believing they had good music or a unique stage presence with marketing that remains unparalleled. Oh, makeup! Oh, costumes! Oh, pyrotechnics! Oh, bad music! If the HOF is going to award a crappy band playing crappy music based on marketing, I'd sooner vote for Milli Vanilli.
Please post another "great song" like Black Diamond; I haven't laughed so hard since yesterday. KISS totally sucks, yet you want to convince me that they are a seminal band worthy of the HOF?
I was very alive in the 70's...does that shock you or offend you? Alice Cooper did a totally different show than KISS. Alice was influenced by Arthur Brown and Screamin Jay Hawkins and alot of Broadway. KISS was influenced musically by Slade,Free and Zepplin Image wise..the NY Dolls, and the Beatles. If KISS's music was so bad,then how do you explain their staying power for 38 years? Because any band can come out with makeup and pyro..that takes no talent. You probally think the Sex Pistols and Guns n Roses are worthy of the HOF
I have to say G'N'R totally deserves to be in they single handedly brought back rock with Appetite. There wasn't a bigger band in the late 80's and early 90's. There only bad album was the Great Spaghetti Incedent. Only way Sex Pistols get in is if you consider them for Godfathers of punk. But then Iggy Pop and the Stooges should be in. But if they are letting hip hop bands in then they totally deserve it
I have to say that the Sex Pistols should likely be in the HOF. They are responsible for the punk rock movement of the late 70's. Though they were not together long they were still very influential. I am a huge punk rock fan - especially 80's punk; the Sex Pistols are where most alt rock bands roots lie IMO.
Now, to comment on another part of the thread...it is an absolute CRIME that Rush is not in HOF. Like them or not, Neil Peart is one of the best, if not the best, drummer of all time. The songs they released in the 70's were like nothing else. I've seen them in concert about 15 times and they put on an amazing show - the last tour they played the Moving Pictures album in it's entirety.
Guns and Roses to me were a band that got alot of help from MTV. Grandiose videos like "Don't Cry" and "November Rain" were being played every 6 minutes. "Appetite" came around at a perfect time....people were tired of the glam look of Poison and the softness of Bon Jovi. It was a breath of fresh air. But Axl's attitude of "I'm bigger than the band" tore it down. Whats G N R done since 91...."Chinese Democracy" was the biggest failure in rock history...took 18 years to make and 9 people bought it. Heck G N R can't even sell out arenas now..they are struggling. Axl is notorious for being late to shows,cancelling gigs..unprofessinonal.
The Sex Pistols made one good record and died. So Sid Vicious gets in before Geddy Lee......that right there tells you the lack of credibility the Rock Hall has. Its a myth..the Pistols did not invent punk. The Dead Boys of Cleveland were doing it before them. talk about a band with very little talent. I was playing "God Save the Queen" when I 14 and that was within 3 months of picking up the guitar.
GNR went down in flames and broke apart because of massive egos,like most wildly sucessful rock bands do but GNR defined a whole shift of rock music away from the crappy glam rock era. The glam rock era that KISS brought around I should add. GNR deserves to go in and so does Nirvana. Both bands just hugely influential.
KING
You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
Quote: I was very alive in the 70's...does that shock you or offend you? Alice Cooper did a totally different show than KISS. Alice was influenced by Arthur Brown and Screamin Jay Hawkins and alot of Broadway. KISS was influenced musically by Slade,Free and Zepplin Image wise..the NY Dolls, and the Beatles. If KISS's music was so bad,then how do you explain their staying power for 38 years? Because any band can come out with makeup and pyro..that takes no talent. You probally think the Sex Pistols and Guns n Roses are worthy of the HOF
Yes, being born in 1979 makes you alive in the 70's, too. I asked how old you are and you said you were playing Sex Pistols at 14, enough said.
I have given credit to KISS for amazing marketing to teenage boys like yourself, wearing an officially licensed KISS backpack to high-school and wondering why all the girls think you're some creepy weirdo with bad taste in music. That is all KISS offers. Zero contribution to music. KISS belongs in the Marketing HOF, not the RnR HOF.
The Sex Pistols and Guns N Roses are just two more bands that should be inducted before KISS, along with Britney Spears - you should see what a great show she puts on! Fireworks! Costume changes! Dancers! Multimedia! The fans go wild, I tell ya. I predict she will do this for 38 years.
Again, I implore you to name one good KISS song. I need a big laugh, and it will be tough to top the classic Black Diamond. You make my sides hurt from laughter.
Never mention KISS in the same sentence as Led Zep or The Beatles again. Thank you. KISS is much closer compositionally to the genius of Mozart.
oh no..Divot sounds like you are trying to resort to "bullying" tatics "never mention KISS in the same sentence as the Beatles or Led Zepplin ever again....." You know what..you are right...I should never do that..how stupid of me. Divot make me go sit in the corner or give me "time out"...
Guns and Roses was glam before they adapted the look familiar on the back of the "AFD" album. It wasn't exactly a genius move to go away from glam to a refined street level look. GNR had a very smart management team behind them.
Quote: I asked how old you are and you said you were playing Sex Pistols at 14, enough said.
Just for arguements sake, There is a lot of older music I didn't get into and started listening to til i was much older.
So you hate Kiss, we get that, but your arguement of "they suck" isn't proof enough of why they don't fit the listed criteria by the RnR HoF for not at least being nominated.
Music is a very subjective and personal opinion arena, and that is why they made a criteria list that doesn't include, "does Divit think they suck?" 40 million records sold says that someone likes the music Kiss produces, just like there are people that think Michael Jackson sucked even though he sold 100 million records, or Elvis sucked, or the Sex Pistols, U2, Metallica, Led Zepplin, etc.
Welcome to the world, you're not the only one in it.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
No, you don't rule out Jimi Hendrix at all. Why would you think that?
Hendrix had hits,, hendrix had record sales, he had concert attendence... What in the hell are you talking about?
Are you saying this because of your hatrid of KISS? I mean, really, That's just not right.
Like I said, I don't care for the Stones either,, I was more of a Beatles fan for sure.
But that doesn't stop me from seeing the value of the Stones and what they've meant to RnR as a whole...You are blinded by hating KISS so much that you make stupid analogies.
Last edited by Damanshot; 12/13/1110:02 AM.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
Quote: I think he was making a point about longevity,using Jimi as an example of lack of longevity.
KING
Yes, it's longevity for Jimi. He was a visionary that changed the music.
There are a lot of bands I don't like that belong in the HOF. The Stones - HOF, Hendrix -HOF, Clapton/Cream - HOF, Elvis - HOF, Springstein - HOF. I don't like any of them but can appreciate the contribution, and more importantly can name a good song from each.
The point with KISS is a) they suck. b) it was all marketing. Springstein was marketing, too, be he didn't suck.
I don't understand anyone thinking "Hey, you know what? KISS should be in the HOF. They sell out concerts and sold lots of albums."
The Wiggles sell millions of albums and concerts. HOF?
Yanni sells millions of albums and concerts. HOF?
Kenny G sells millions of albums and concerts. HOF?
You need to consider something other than album sales and concerts. Mostly you should not suck.
So there has to be some sort of consideration given to impact to the industry.. Jimi Hendrix has a very long career. Longer than anyone gives him credit for. All anyone seems to remember is his "Jimi Hendrix Experience" .
This guy was considered one of the best, if not the best rock guitarist of his time..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
To be honest, never cared much for Hendrix's music either, but I understand his position in rock history puts him in the HoF and rightfully so.
KISS, while not musical virtuosoes have influenced many musicians that came after them, and had an effect in the musical landscape, and you can claim they sucked, but record sales prove that your opinion is just that, YOUR opinion. Yanni and Kenny G sell a lot of albums, I don't like them, but someone does. I don't claim they suck, I just claim I don't care for their music.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
So millions of Yanni and Kenny G album sales don't count, but KISS does?
Yanni and Kenny G in HOF based on concerts/album sales?
Barney the Dinosaur sells more than all of them (trust me, I worked for the company and I know). Concerts, CDs, DVDs. HOF?
Let's not pretend it's about how much you can sell to get into the HOF.
Please cite the bands that credit KISS as their influence, other than maybe Gwar.
While I also don't like Yanni or Kenny G, at least they have talent, unlike KISS. And I haven't seen anyone waking up one day and saying Kenny G should be in the HOF. KISS wouldn't make my top 100 of bands I would induct next.
Still waiting for that one, only one, good KISS song. Black Diamond was already suggested, apparently for the sake of humor.
Your missing the point he was trying to make. He wasn't suggesting that Hendrixx should not be in HOF. He was making a point of, if you were just going by longevity of career then you would have to exclude Jimi. Jimi died at 28, but of course his mark on RNR has lived on for many,many years.
King
You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
So millions of Yanni and Kenny G album sales don't count, but KISS does?
Yanni and Kenny G in HOF based on concerts/album sales?
Once again, your hatred for KISS is clouding your ability to comprehend what pretty much everyone has been saying.
1. I NEVER said Kenny G and Yanni Did or did not belong in the HoF. So bad retort on your part.
2. KISS HAS done more than record sales and longevity. Almost any current rock musician will list KISS as one of the reasons they chose to get into music. That makes them an influence. They have also altered the rock concert concept.
3. Sure Alice Cooper was doing outlandish things, but Alice Cooper had a select audience, where KISS took it to the masses with simplistic and catchy songs. Beta vs VHS they did the same thing, one just reached farther.
On a side note, Im still trying to understand what Richie Valens did for rock that got him in, besides being the initiator of forcing spanish on this country.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
Quote: Your missing the point he was trying to make. He wasn't suggesting that Hendrixx should not be in HOF. He was making a point of, if you were just going by longevity of career then you would have to exclude Jimi. Jimi died at 28, but of course his mark on RNR has lived on for many,many years.
King
I wasn't missing anything. I NEVER said that the only criteria was longevity..
I said it was ONE of the criteria. And besides, Hendrix career spanned about 10 years.. it's not like he was here today and gone tomorrow (although it kinda feels that way). He was born in 1942, spent time in the military and his career began in earnest once he got out of the service.. about 1960 or so.. he died in 1970.
Again, Longevity is just ONE criteria. You have to look at other things as well.. and I never said otherwise
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
I think there are too many artists in the RNR HOF. Having rap and Motown artists make very little sense. How come they don't have a seperate institution for rap? any act that impacts the landscape of RNR should be in. Stones,Beatles, The Kinks, Cream,Zepplin, Alice Cooper, KISS,Black Sabbath, Van Halen,Ike Turner.Little Richard..... how ABBA,Sex Pistols, or Grandmaster Funk got in just shows you how ignorant Jan Wenner and David Marsh is.
Again, list the artist/band, other than maybe Gwar, that credits KISS as being an influence. Since "almost every current rock musician" claims this, it should be easy.
The goal-line keeps being moved. First it was innovation, not something KISS did. Then it was the "great" songs you didn't hear on FM radio, and that's out in favor of "catchy songs". Then album sales, now that's out. Now it's the legions of other artists that credit KISS as their inspiration. I'm waiting.
I don't hate KISS. I think they're hilarious (although I don't like Gene Simmons and the way he treats women.) I just don't think they are worthy of the HOF. They are like The Monkees, but with less talent.
LENNY CRAVITZ It was in Los Angeles that Kravitz was first introduced to rock music, listening to Led Zeppelin, Kiss, Aerosmith, Jimi Hendrix, Pink Floyd, Cream, and The Who. LINK
Quote:
GARTH BROOKS A recent hit for Garth Brooks, that's The Change. That song was a little controversial, but Garth isn't one to hide from controversy. Coming up, Garth takes on the music of his influences. George Jones, Billy Joel, Bob Seger, and KISS, as The Garth Brooks Story continues. LINK
Quote:
MARLILYN MANSON Early musical influences for him include: The Beatles, KISS, Alice Cooper, AC/DC, Iggy Pop, Black Sabbath, David Bowie and Gary Numan LINK
http://www.kisskollector.com/history/ This website at the bottom shows the list of artists who were influenced by them and it also has quotes from other artists-
Here's the list- Lenny Kravitz; Metallica; Warrant; Faster Pussycat; Garth Brooks; Motley Crue; Pearl Jam; Poison; Soundgarden; Hootie And The Blowfish; Anthrax; Skid Row; Extreme; Stone Temple Pilots; Megadeth; Alice In Chains; Venom; Nuclear Assault; WASP; Bon Jovi; Weezer; Mozart; Nine Inch Nails; Danger Danger; Sepultura; Marilyn Manson; and many, many others
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
Divot can you prove the Monkess have more talent than KISS? as far as the songs in KISS's catalog...they are like any other band thats been around for 38 years..they have great..okay and bad songs.... but I guess being around for 38 years is due to their stage shows and outfits. The songs don't equate into it.
this is for Divot..if you don't think its well composed and well written...so be it. this is KISS in a tiny club..no pyro..no lasers...just the band in a Brooklyn club
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