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Quote:
I remember being impressed with Drew Stanton in a pre-season game with Detroit a couple years ago. Good size at 6-3, 240 and it seemed to me he has a pretty strong arm. I also could see Jason Campbell in a Chud offensive scheme.
To me Jason Campbell is the opposite of a Chud type QB. He is more like an Alex Smith type. He is at his best when he is protected, and asked to do no more than he is absolutely comfortable doing.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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you know what Weeden and Anderson have in common?
Both are not NFL starter material.
14 years since the return and the Browns QB position is defined by a 29 year old who had no business being drafted in the 1st RD and the possible return
of a journeyman who had a great 2/3's of one season.
until the Browns can find a replacement for Weeden,being in last place will be
common place yet again.
If either QB is taking snaps this year, that can't be good news in either case.
This franchise is better off trying to acquire someone like Phillip Rivers and drafting his replacement.
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Nah, I think Weeden has a "2007 year" in him. And if he does, Chud will pull it out of him.
The Broncos thought they solved their QB position by signing Manning.....but it turned out they signed a choking playoff QB. So, do they dump him tomorrow? They aren't as bad off as you or I think...and neither are we.
Relax. Let Chud work with Weeden while there is a QB competition. If he continues to tread water, dump him. But I'm not dumping him after one season.
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/Punchsmack/punch.gif) “...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
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The Broncos thought they solved their QB position by signing Manning.....but it turned out they signed a choking playoff QB.
LOL.. seriously?
yebat' Putin
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I think that was tounge in cheek due to all the over reacting to our QB being labled the biggest bust to ever walk onto a football field by some people after his rookie season. I could of course be way off base but thats how I took it.
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
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I was hoping that is what he meant... However.. I will say that having questions about whether or not he is the future of the Browns and whether or not he is the biggest bust to ever walk on a football field are 2 completely different things. You can ask the first without believing the second.... 
yebat' Putin
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Quote:
The Broncos thought they solved their QB position by signing Manning.....but it turned out they signed a choking playoff QB.
LOL.. seriously?
Yes, seriously (with a little tongue in cheek...go with me here).
Manning threw a STUPID pass across his body that resulted in an OT loss on Saturday, he lost the Super Bowl with his pick-6 a few years back, and most of his pre-Super Bowl win playoff games were terrible.
Yes, he did play extremely well in that comeback win against the Pats in the AFCCG. And he did play "well enough" in the Super Bowl win against the Bears. Look, I'm not calling him a bust. He's maybe one of the best QB of all time.....but really think about it. Do his regular season accolades stand up against his playoffs results? He hasn't really set the world on fire with his postseason wins and stats.
Heck, until yesterday, most of the country knew Matt Ryan as a excellent regular season QB that disappeared in the playoffs. I'd still take him on the Browns in a heartbeat....but before that FG went through the uprights, he was known as a choker.
And yes, Manning is settling back into that place where the fans and media are questioning his playoff performances (and how that affects his overall legacy). In some ways, I'm starting to view Manning and Favre in the same light....great stats, great arm, tons of regular season wins, only one Super Bowl each and a ton of flameouts in the postseason. Again, I'd take that for the Browns in a plank second but I would bet the fans of Denver didn't think they were signing a QB that would thrown ANOTHER horrible late game interception to lose the game.
“...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
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i'd add in for Peyton's performance that something seems wrong with his arm. he's got plenty of speed on the shorter throws (as the announcers made sure to point out over and over and over again), but he only attempted 2 passes over 15yds in length. the entire 5 and half quarters played. 2 passes thrown over 15yds in length. Flacco threw 10 over that distance (185yds 3TDs) http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201301120den.htm
#gmstrong
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I was hoping that is what he meant...
However.. I will say that having questions about whether or not he is the future of the Browns and whether or not he is the biggest bust to ever walk on a football field are 2 completely different things. You can ask the first without believing the second....
Im in that camp as well, of asking question 1 while wondering if 2 is the answer. Thats why I hate the jump to 2 (not by you, but some) before 1 is even remotely considered.
I'm not down on the guy and im not sold on the guy.
I'm willing to take the car for another test drive but if the person paying for the car says I want to look at other models I wont lose any sleep over it either. 
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
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Ok I can see your point. Hes like the Kosars Ryans Romos Rivers McNabb Moon Marino Fouts Stabler Shuab (sp?) now can be added to the list etc for whatever reason always will get you a ticket to the dance but hardly ever actually dance's with you for the last dance.
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
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Yes, seriously (with a little tongue in cheek...go with me here).
Oh I get where you are going... but he gave them a 7-0 lead.. he gave them a 21-14 lead... he gave them a 28-21 lead, he gave them a 35-28 lead... and the defense kept giving it back... He had the Broncos with a 35-28 lead with a minute to go and they gave up a 70 yard TD pass.... who does that?
He took a defense that averages giving up 21 and hung 35 on them and lost..... How many times do people expect him to be able to win the same game?
yebat' Putin
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Ok I can see your point. Hes like the Kosars Ryans Romos Rivers McNabb Moon Marino Fouts Stabler Shuab (sp?) now can be added to the list etc for whatever reason always will get you a ticket to the dance but hardly ever actually dance's with you for the last dance.
Essentially, yes. Except, he won one Super Bowl (though, I'd argue he managed the game just enough to give Grossman the opportunity to lose it....but whatever, a win is a win).
Ya know, of that list....I kinda miss Moon the most (2nd to Kosar, goes without saying). My memory of him seems to be of complete perfection.
“...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
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Yes, seriously (with a little tongue in cheek...go with me here).
Oh I get where you are going... but he gave them a 7-0 lead.. he gave them a 21-14 lead... he gave them a 28-21 lead, he gave them a 35-28 lead... and the defense kept giving it back... He had the Broncos with a 35-28 lead with a minute to go and they gave up a 70 yard TD pass.... who does that?
He took a defense that averages giving up 21 and hung ã5 on them and lost..... How many times do people expect him to be able to win the same game?
And that's the logical argument in return, you're right. That's reality. But perception is....Manning threw a costly interception very late in a playoff game that cost his team the win, again. That isn't supposed to happen to a QB of his caliber.
To be an NFL QB.....very rough. You get all the praise when you win, even when it's your defense that does all the work. And you get all the crap when you lose, even if you played well in the loss.
“...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
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That being said, Manning does have his issues.. he's what, 0-7 or something like that in playoff games where the temp is below 40 degrees... granted most of those came in New England but still...
That is one of the reasons people questioned his moves to the Broncos, the guy is not a great cold weather player evidently...
yebat' Putin
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Quote:
Yes, seriously (with a little tongue in cheek...go with me here).
Oh I get where you are going... but he gave them a 7-0 lead.. he gave them a 21-14 lead... he gave them a 28-21 lead, he gave them a 35-28 lead... and the defense kept giving it back... He had the Broncos with a 35-28 lead with a minute to go and they gave up a 70 yard TD ass.... who does that?
He took a defense that averages giving up 21 and hung 35 on them and lost..... How many times do people expect him to be able to win the same game?
Two of their touchdowns were scored on special teams.
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Wilbon on PTI just mentioned that Manning is 9-11 in the playoffs. I thought it was bad, but not that bad.
8 of those loses are 1-and-done losses.
3 of those were in one postseason.
Last edited by Punchsmack; 01/14/13 08:26 PM.
“...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
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Wilbon on PTI just mentioned that Manning is 9-11 in the playoffs. I thought it was bad, but not that bad.
Problem being you need 2 or 3 wins to make the super bowl but only 1 loss to be eliminated. I agree didnt think it was that bad. Thats 11 times you got in and were taken out.
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
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Wilbon on PTI just mentioned that Manning is 9-11 in the playoffs. I thought it was bad, but not that bad.
8 of those loses were in the first round.
3 of those were in one postseason.
And yet I would love to have a QB on my team with that same record in the playoffs. That would mean every year I get to watch them play meaningful football during the playoffs and have a Super Bowl ring.
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That being said, Manning does have his issues.. he's what, 0-7 or something like that in playoff games where the temp is below 40 degrees... granted most of those came in New England but still...
That is one of the reasons people questioned his moves to the Broncos, the guy is not a great cold weather player evidently...
Don't be surprised if Elway and Co., begin building the dome over Donk Stadium very quickly.
#GMSTRONG
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Wilbon on PTI just mentioned that Manning is 9-11 in the playoffs. I thought it was bad, but not that bad.
8 of those loses were in the first round.
3 of those were in one postseason.
And yet I would love to have a QB on my team with that same record in the playoffs. That would mean every year I get to watch them play meaningful football during the playoffs and have a Super Bowl ring.
No offense because a SB win trumps all but watching 8 1st round outs isnt my idea of watching meaningful football during the playoffs. If Romo wins one 6 years from now would Dallas fan have been happy watching all the losses?
Elway got there 3 times and lost (the SB) and Kelly got there 4 times (having never won) I would have taken that over being 1 and done year after year. I want to go deep into the playoffs not just be a team that makes it.
Again Im only taking about the 1 and done seasons.
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
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back to the topic at hand......
Did DA's touch improve any since he left Cleveland? I loved it when he would rifle the five yard pass, a blaze of fire that nobody could catch. He had no touch on the short stuff, and no accuracy on the long stuff.... why is he being talked about again?
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back to the topic at hand......
Did DA's touch improve any since he left Cleveland? I loved it when he would rifle the five yard pass, a blaze of fire that nobody could catch. He had no touch on the short stuff, and no accuracy on the long stuff.... why is he being talked about again?
Because he got old and cant throw that hard anymore? 
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
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Legend
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Quote:
Wilbon on PTI just mentioned that Manning is 9-11 in the playoffs. I thought it was bad, but not that bad.
8 of those loses are 1-and-done losses.
3 of those were in one postseason.
How many of those losses were to New England?
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Easier this go one and done when you always skip would card weekend
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but hey. it's not like he also took to twitter to further mock and criticize Browns' fans. oh wait, nevermind.
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Your right. It was a much better experience watching the Browns and all of our great QB play in the playoffs every year. Those poor Colts fans that had to deal with the crappy win loss record of Peyton Manning.
Do you even read the stuff you type? You're really complaining about his record in playoff games. Mind you that he has played in 20 more of them than the team we cheer for has.
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Your right. It was a much better experience watching the Browns and all of our great QB play in the playoffs every year. Those poor Colts fans that had to deal with the crappy win loss record of Peyton Manning.
Do you even read the stuff you type? You're really complaining about his record in playoff games. Mind you that he has played in 20 more of them than the team we cheer for has.
That's not the argument. OF COURSE any Browns fan would gladly trade the past 15 years of Cleveland football for the last 15 years of Colts football. Do you really think that's up for debate? Come on.
When you're comparing the all-time QB greats.....Montana, Brady, Manning, Marino, Favre, Graham, etc. When looking at Manning, somewhere in the first or second paragraph you're going to see his below average playoff record (when held up against the others). And yes, that's going to "hurt" his legacy (assuming he doesn't win another Super Bowl in the coming years).
Come on, his own brother has an additional Super Bowl, played better in those Super Bowls and has a better overall record in the playoffs and he's been in the league a lot less time. If you're comparing the two, I would guess most would take Eli in the playoffs.
 And technically, Peyton has played in 20....the Browns played in 1 since 1999. So it's only 19 more than us. 
“...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
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[If you're comparing the two, I would guess most would take Eli in the playoffs.
agreed. but, most would also take Peyton to get them to the playoffs. Peyton is the more consistent QB, but Eli has been able to rise up to the challenge better.
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i'd add in for Peyton's performance that something seems wrong with his arm. he's got plenty of speed on the shorter throws (as the announcers made sure to point out over and over and over again), but he only attempted 2 passes over 15yds in length. the entire 5 and half quarters played.
2 passes thrown over 15yds in length.
Flacco threw 10 over that distance (185yds 3TDs)
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201301120den.htm
Aha
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000126494/article/was-peyton-mannings-arm-strength-a-problem
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Steve Wyche of NFL.com relayed from one Ravens source that safety Ed Reed played in the deep center field the entire game. The Ravens were daring Manning to go deep, but he didn't test them.
Ravens cornerback Corey Graham, who picked off Manning twice, said Manning's patience to dink and dunk gave Baltimore confidence.
"Graham said that the Ravens' defensive backs became more brazen as the game went on, since they weren't being challenged deep," Wyche wrote. "As the possessions increased in importance, it seemed as if Denver was more intent on moving the chains than taking chances."
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i'd add in for Peyton's performance that something seems wrong with his arm. he's got plenty of speed on the shorter throws (as the announcers made sure to point out over and over and over again), but he only attempted 2 passes over 15yds in length. the entire 5 and half quarters played.
2 passes thrown over 15yds in length.
Flacco threw 10 over that distance (185yds 3TDs)
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201301120den.htm
Aha
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000126494/article/was-peyton-mannings-arm-strength-a-problem
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Steve Wyche of NFL.com relayed from one Ravens source that safety Ed Reed played in the deep center field the entire game. The Ravens were daring Manning to go deep, but he didn't test them.
Ravens cornerback Corey Graham, who picked off Manning twice, said Manning's patience to dink and dunk gave Baltimore confidence.
"Graham said that the Ravens' defensive backs became more brazen as the game went on, since they weren't being challenged deep," Wyche wrote. "As the possessions increased in importance, it seemed as if Denver was more intent on moving the chains than taking chances."
So, in so many words, Manning's career as "Peyton Manning" is over. He's now "Peyton Manning the Dink N's Dunk Game Manager". Right (assuming this wasn't just the offensive gameplan by the coaches but their gameplan because Manning either doesn't have the confidence in his arm OR his arm IS indeed crap)?
I did find it odd that Denver ran the ball so much, especially on a few 3rd downs. We were all saying, "You're one of the greatest QBs in the history of the game....and you're checking out of a pass into a run on 3rd and 6 in the playoffs? Come on, trust your stuff. You're "Peyton Manning". Sling it braj!"
And that weak ass kneel down with 30-something seconds left and 2 timeouts was the worst! While Matt Ryan had to sling it in the same situation because he was down a point, he proved you can score in that amount of time. Manning, and his coaches, had so little faith in his arm that they thought the odds of him throwing a pick-6 were probably higher than him driving for a winning score. Too bad.
And again, I'd take Manning over the crap we've had the past 15 years. Heck, I'd trade Weeden for him right now.....even knowing he's "done". He's still one of the best QB in the game right now. But on the biggest stage with the biggest pressure on the biggest drive, the dude just doesn't have it anymore (and didn't really have it much to begin with - all those 1-&-done playoff exits).
“...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
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And this is why I hate perception...
If Denver doesn't play the WORST defensive play I've ever seen with 30 seconds and 70 yards to go (seriously, where did they think Baltimore was ganna throw it?)
We're talking about how Manning has still got it and it's Manning vs Brady...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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You're right. This isn't golf or tennis. Some things are completely out of your control.
You can have the game of your life and still lose.
My favorite example of this is Tom Brady a few seasons back. It was a regular season game, before the new OT rules took effect. Anyway, the opposing team won the toss and received. They drove the length of the field and kicked the FG for the win. So the network quickly jumps to Brady walking off the field and says, "that kick means Brady is now 0-3 in OT games on the road" (something to that effect). Tom never had a chance to touch the ball in OT and the media was so quick to mark the OT loss on his record, not the coach or the team.
So yes, Manning was a bad prevent defense away from being a hero in Denver. So was Bernie in 1986. We can only argue or debate what happened, not what should or could have happened.
After that stupid defense by the Broncs, Manning did quit on the last 31 seconds and also threw the game-ending interception.
“...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
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Hell the new OT rules came into play because Manning lost to SD in the playoffs without being able to touch the ball...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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He has an MVP caliber season and we're talking that his arm sucks now.
LOL.
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He has an MVP caliber season and we're talking that his arm sucks now.
LOL.
he's a mid-30s QB who wasn't the strongest deep arm thrower in the first place and is coming back from 4 neck surgeries. it was also suggested (before the game) that the cold could affect his grip on the ball w/ his nerve endings.
the Broncos threw deep twice the ENTIRE game of 5.5 quarters despite the Ravens being in an alignment with only one deep safety (so he could have gotten single coverage deep to one side and he has Decker/Thomas who are bigger than anyone the Ravens have to cover them).
he had a fabulous regular season. heck, he had a pretty decent game on those shorter throws vs. Baltimore. but, why does that mean it's not fair to question if he had issues in that game with the deep ball?
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