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I caught the end of it. They were asking him about the Rooney rule and race.
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seems like a sure way to end a press conference.
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Here's part of it. (in reverse order) Cleveland Browns introduce Ray Horton as defensive coordinator | cleveland.com http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2013/01/cleveland_browns_introduce_ray.html#incart_2boxBEREA, Ohio - The Cleveland Browns introduced new defensive coordinator Ray Horton at a 10 a.m. press conference today. The press conference was covered by Plain Dealer reporters Mary Kay Cabot, Tom Reed and Branson Wright, along with columnist Terry Pluto. 10:27 a.m. Press conference ended. Be sure to check back for more coverage - stories, photos and video - from Cleveland.com later on this morning and afternoon. 10:23 a.m. More from Horton on Dick LeBeau: "If you've ever spent any time with coach LeBeau. . . he treats every person like they're the most important person in the room, and that's a gift that not everyone has. . . Players love playing for coach LeBeau, and I think that's the highest form of respect that you can have: that your players love playing for you." Horton on whether this will be a massive overhaul from 4-3 to 3-4: "What I've seen on film, . . . I love this team, the way it's constituted right now. They give effort. I saw every game, and I don't see a dropoff of effort. If you get that for 16 weeks, that's all you need." Horton on the "hybrid/multifront" approach: "I bring little guys, they blitz. I put big guys in coverage. I've got the perfect mix of big guys who can run and little guys who can hit." Horton on expectations: "It's our job to put out the best product we can . . . and the rest will take care of itself." Chudzinski on defensive roster: "As far as the roster itself, we felt from the beginning that this group of players has some flexibility. As we get into the process more. . . we'll have those discussions. But if you're a good football player, you're a good football player. I don't think the scheme is so different that good players won't be able to fit in this scheme." Horton on Billy Wynn: "I saw him make an interception on a great diving catch. . . He gives us the ability to move guys around. . . It gives me more flexibility. .. That's what we want for this defense: You can't predict what we're going to do." 10:15 a.m. Horton on concern about players having to think instead of react when learning 3-4: "I would hope the biggest change is terminology.. . . Whether you're on the guard, center or tackle, it's still football." Horton on Steelers influence: "This will be a mirror image of coach Rob and his wishes and desires, of having a multifront, attacking defense. I don't know what Pittsburgh is. I know what we will be. . . .I have had a big influence from (Steelers DC Dick LeBeau) - probably the biggest influence is how he treats people." Horton on Jabaal Sheard: "Let's not put limits on what players can or can not do. Jabaal is a guy who can rush the passer and is athletic. . . What does the offense do best and what can we take away? He might be a safety, a defensive end - I want him to tell me what he does best." Horton on T.J. Ward: "What I see in T.J. is a player that's dynamic in the run game; a player that's going to get better because he will hit. . . . He will hit you. I'm excited to have T.J. to be able to coach him and grow with him. He'll tell me what he does best by how he practices, how he plays." 10:10 a.m. Chudzinski on Horton maybe leaving in one year for a head coaching job: "I would hope that Ray and any other coaches on the staff will have their day and move up the ladder." Horton on what he liked about the Browns: "What I saw was big men that can run, and little men that can hit. If you give me those two things, we'll be a good defense. "I think you'll hear this all through spring. When you watch our defensive line, they get after the quarterback and then they turn and run down the field. Our little guys . . . they can hit. If we have those things, we will be a successful defense." Horton and whether it will be an overhaul to 3-4: "Going back, I use the word 'multiple front.' Coach Rob uses 'hybrid.' Our guys can play a multitude of things. I don't like to get pigeonholed. . . We are going to look at the offense and try to take away what they do best. One snap we might be a 5-2. The next snap we might be a 4-4. . . . The thing I'm most excited about is I have a group of athletes who can run and hit, and they're not limited to saying, 'Coach, line me up in a specific system. . . ' 10:00 a.m. Press conference started right on time. Coach Rob Chudzinski: "We want to have an attacking-style defense. . . I want an emphasis on fundamentals, tackling, covering, playing run defense. I want us to be innovative, and put our guys in a situation where they can make plays. "Ray has exhibited those things throughout his career. "From an offensive perspective, I've always felt the 3-4 defense with multiple looks have been the toughest to prepare for. . . . The flexibility of the blitz packages they can play, and basically not knowing what they're doing. "I've used the word 'hybrid' to describe that style of defense, as it has moved to the multifront, attacking defense. That's the defense I've looked at as the toughest to play against and the defense we want to be here. As we look at Ray, he meshes perfectly with the vision I have for this defense, and that's what this defense will be." Ray Horton: "First of all I'd like to say I'm excited to be here. . . . and be a part of coach Rob's team. What are we? I don't really care what we are on defense. I want to know what we're going to look like. We're going to be an attacking defense with big men that can run, and little men that can hit. . . We are a multifront attacking defense, that's what matters - not who lines up where. "I've been in the airport, been around the city, met a guy last night who said he's in the Dawg Pound. . . and I'm excited about the fans' excitement about the Cleveland Browns and what we're going to put together here with Rob and this outstanding staff." 9:58 a.m. While we're waiting, ponder these new fan-submitted Browns uniform ideas for 2014. Fans came up with some novel concepts- everything from logos on the helmet to the Dawg logo on the sleeves. Creative stuff. 9:50 a.m. One topic sure to be addressed this morning is the statements about what kind of defense the Browns will run. New coach Rob Chudzinski has called it a "hybrid" of a 3-4 and a 4-3. Horton didn't use that term last week. From a story by Mary Kay Cabot: Browns new defensive coordinator Ray Horton made it clear Thursday during a radio interview that he plans to run a 3-4 defense here instead of the 4-3 Dick Jauron ran for the past two years. "It'll be a 3-4 defense, the same defense we ran (in Arizona),'' Horton told 910 AM in Arizona. "It won't be a hybrid unless you're playing golf.'' He also said his scheme will mirror that of the Steelers, where he worked from 2004-10 under defensive genius Dick LeBeau, who runs an attack-minded 3-4. Chudzinski re-iterated Thursday night at the Greater Cleveland Sports Awards that the Browns will run both the 3-4 and 4-3, more of a hybrid of the two fronts. The reason it's an issue is become some key players, such as defensive end Jabaal Sheard and tackle Ahtyba Rubin, are more suited to the 4-3. Linebacker D'Qwell Jackson has also excelled in the 4-3.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Sheard is not "junk", but a diamond in the rough.
And that's what "set me off."
You pulled off your Garanimals and threw on your Captain Defender costume trying to make it sound as if I've called Sheard a bumbling bust who was a waste as a 4-3 guy. All I did was point out the silliness and reiterated the truth.
Sheard has ability but he's no all-pro. Moving him to 3-4 OLB position isn't going to ruin his ability to contribute. I've seen Dwight Freeney mentioned as a reason to question what will happen if Sheard is moved.
Talk about apples to hand-grenades.
Freeney is a squat 6'1 275. He's a prototypical 4-3 rush-end. He wasn't ever going to possess the athletic ability to do the things asked of him in the 3-4. He's also in his 30's.
Sheard is an athletic 6'3 265. That puts him right in line with what you want for a 3-4 OLB. He's athletic enough to move around and make plays, but has enough stoutness to make tackles for losses. Hell, many scouting reports said he's a perfect candidate for the 3-4.
Our big problem in the 3-4 is going to come with the ILB's. I'm beyond certain that Haslam will spend money and get us some parts. The real question is going to be whether or not we go after the other rush OLB in free agency or with the 6th pick in the draft.
There are some guys coming out that can play OLB for us and really get to the QB. I just hope we don't go after Werner. That dude quit on more plays in college than any guy I've ever seen.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Horton had a press conference today. Anyone know what he said?
It WILL be a hybrid defense, as was stated way before this thread was started. "An attacking aggressive front" with 3-4, 4-3, 5-2 & 4-4 sets.
He also said that when he looked at the roster he saw big men who could run and little men who could hit, and "if you give me those two things, we'll be a good defense."
Ray uses the term "Multiple Front" and Chud uses the term "Hybrid". They both mean the same thing.
No labels on the player regarding what they are... ie; Sheard as a pass rusher or OLB.
He's flexible regarding adapting the system to the players, not the other way around.
He likes the personnel, and likes that they give good effort every game, no drop off from game one to game 16.
Wants to be unpredictable (based on who we're playing, situation etc,) as to where the big men line up, inside, outside, rush, drop back into coverage, etc...
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Ray Horton vowed to transform the Browns’ defense into a versatile, attacking unit this morning during his introductory news conference.
Horton, who was hired Jan. 18 as the team’s new defensive coordinator, said last week during an interview with Arizona radio station XTRA Sports 910-AM that he would run a 3-4 defense in Cleveland. Browns coach Rob Chudzinski described it as a 3-4 multi-front defense today, and Horton emphasized the versatility of his system while resisting labels.
“We’re going to look like an aggressive, forward attacking defense that has big men that can run and little men that can hit, and I’ve seen that on tape,” Horton said. “That’s the most important thing to me – what do we look like, not what we line up in. We may be a 3-4 on one snap. We may be a 4-3 on another snap. I guarantee you we’ll be a 5-2 sometimes, and we’ll be a 4-4 sometimes. We are a multi-front, attacking defense, and that’s the most important thing, not what player lines up where, how he stands, what stance he’s in.”
Horton said he has studied the Browns’ roster and doesn’t envision a massive overhaul to fit his system.
“When you watch our defensive line, they get after the quarterback and they turn and run and make multiple plays downfield,” Horton said. “And then you see our little guys, who you know can run, but the thing that impresses you is they can hit.”
Browns coach Rob Chudzinski said his vision for the defense meshes well with Horton’s philosophy.
“I’ve always felt that the 3-4, multi-front, multi-look defenses are the toughest ones to play against because they show multiple looks that you have to prepare for, they can create confusion in your blocking schemes and then also in the pass game as well,” Chudzinski said. “The flexibility that [those defenses] give in terms of the blitz packages that they can play and then just not knowing basically what they’re doing, they really attack the offense. I’ve used the word hybrid to describe that as a descriptive term for that style of defense as that defense has become more common and moving away from the traditional 3-4, single-front defense. That style of defense, the multi-front, attacking defense is the defense that I looked at is the toughest to play against from an offensive perspective and the defense that we want to be here as the Browns’ defense. As I looked at Ray and studied Ray for what he’s done at Arizona, it fits perfectly and meshes perfectly with the vision that I have for this defense, and that’s what this Browns defense will be.”
Horton believes his defense will be difficult for opponents to prepare for.
“I use the word multiple front,” Horton said. “Coach Rob uses hybrid. They’re the same term. They’re just different semantics of language. We are going to be a defense that gives offenses problems. Our guys can play a multitude of things. I don’t like to get pigeonholed into, ‘Well, he is this.’ Here’s what we’re going to be: We’re going to be a team that looks at the offense and tries to take away what they do best. Now that may mean one snap being a 5-2. The next snap it may be a 4-4. It will be predicated by what the offense does, and we have athletes that can stand up, that can put their hand in the ground, that can run. So that’s why I go back to the multi-front defense. I can’t tell you what we’re going to be right now. It depends on who we line up game one against. What do they do? What do we need to take away? The thing I’m most excited about is I have a group of athletes that can run and hit and they’re not limited to just saying, ‘Coach, line me up in a specific front, number system and play.’ Just run and hit.”
Some disappointment
After spending the past two seasons as the defensive coordinator of the Arizona Cardinals, Horton interviewed earlier this month for the head-coaching vacancies of the Cardinals and the Browns. The Cardinals ultimately hired Bruce Arians, and the Browns hired Chudzinski.
“I had hoped [to become a head coach], but you know it’s a process,” Horton said. “I didn’t make the saying, but you can only control what you can control. I can’t control that other than myself interviewing well.
“It’s really a reflection of your men, how they perform on the field for you. That’s really what my resume is. My resume is the players that we have on the field and how they perform. Am I disappointed? Yes. Am I excited to be here? I’m absolutely excited to be here.”
Fifteen key hires were made throughout the NFL in the last few weeks and none of the jobs went to minorities.
Horton was asked if he was disappointed for minorities.
“I wasn't disappointed at all for minorities,” Horton said. “I was disappointed for Ray Horton.”
Player evaluations
Horton shared his thoughts on several Browns players. Below are some of them.
On whether defensive end Jabaal Sheard can play outside linebacker: “I would hope my answer would be, ‘Let's not put limits on what players can and cannot do.’ Jabaal is a guy that I have seen on film that can rush the quarterback and is athletic. What we are going to do as a coaching staff is put each one of our guys in the best position. I don't want to put limits or expectations on anybody other than I know that they can run and they can hit . . . I'm looking at the offense we are playing and what they do best and what can I do to take it away. He may be a strong safety some time, he can be a linebacker, he can be a D end. I want him to tell me what he can do best and not put a label on what he is.”
On cornerback Joe Haden: “Good hands, good feet, takes good keys, can play the ball and he'll tackle. So he fits into my little men that can hit and he can catch the ball, he can play the ball.”
On other cornerbacks: “From watching it, Sheldon Brown, still 11 years in, still plays at a good high level. Buster Skrine played well last year. Trevin Wade. There's a lot of good.”
On whether the Browns want to re-sign Brown: “Today was our first meeting as a staff at 8 o’clock today. We just started watching our first game as a staff. I’ve seen them. We’re still going through our evaluation process. I don’t know what Sheldon Brown wants. It’s one of those deals where a player’s a free agent, you can’t dictate what’s going to happen in the market. I’d like to have everybody back.”
On strong safety T.J. Ward: “What I see in T.J. is a player who is dynamic in the run game, a player that's going to get better because he's a smart player that will hit. I keep going back to it. He's a little man who will hit. That's what he is. He's a smaller guy, he's not a big man, but he will hit you. I'm excited for a chance to coach him and grow with him and understand what he does best. He will tell me what he does best by how he practices, how he plays and again it's limitless what we can do with players who can run and hit.”
On defensive lineman Billy Winn: “I’ve seen Billy quite a bit during the season and he came up with a fantastic interception where he was rushing, the ball was tipped and he came back and made a great diving catch and that goes back to my point of what these big men can do. They can all run and they’re athletic and so it just gives us the ability to move guys around where as coach Rob said when you prepare for somebody, that’s the hardest thing of where they going to be because we don’t know and it just gives me more flexibility. Maybe Billy’s inside, maybe Billy’s outside, maybe he’s dropping because he’s so athletic. And that’s what we’re talking about this defense. You can’t predict what we do because we are a multiple front, multiple coverage defense and I’ve got great flexibility because of the big men that can run.”
On track
Chudzinski said linebacker Chris Gocong, who suffered a torn Achilles last summer, should be able to return for the start of the 2013 season.
“I would think ready for the season,” Chudzinski said. “Short of that, I'm not sure exactly what's going to happen.
“We're still going through the evaluation process as far as where he will fit. From a health standpoint, from my understanding from the reports I got, everything is on track. He's getting better. He's on track with his rehab. He's started running and doing some things. As far as a timetable as to when he's going to be ready, it's still a little premature for that, but everything is on target.”
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Well he said all the right things... we are going to the super bowl. 
yebat' Putin
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Well he said all the right things... we are going to the super bowl.
LOL all he wants is big men that can run and little men that can hit. We got that 
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
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LOL all he wants is big men that can run and little men that can hit. We got that
So he obviously has something against big men who can hit and little men that can run. This guy sucks. We're DOOOOOOOOOOOMED  
I am really starting to like this coaching staff. Boy do I hope they coach as good as they talk.
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Horton had a press conference today. Anyone know what he said?
He said he heard a Hoo.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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So, we hire Chud, we're going to run a 3-4, then we're not, we're gonna run a 4-3. Then we hire Horton who's a 3-4, but we're still going to run a 4-3, then he tells an Arizona media outlet the only hybrid he believes in are golf clubs, then today he says they will use multiple fronts.
Did I get all that?
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[image]http://www.quickmeme.com/meme/3srtzw/[/image]
Last edited by CanadaDawg; 01/29/13 04:47 PM.
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Chud said he wanted a defense that would confuse people.
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I can never figure out how to get images to post.
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So, we hire Chud, we're going to run a 3-4, then we're not, we're gonna run a 4-3. Then we hire Horton who's a 3-4, but we're still going to run a 4-3, then he tells an Arizona media outlet the only hybrid he believes in are golf clubs, then today he says they will use multiple fronts.
Did I get all that?
Your over thinking it a little, but yeah, that's kinda it.
Essentially, Horton is saying, we'll look at the opponent, find out what they do best and take that away from them. However we need to do that is what we'll.
Last edited by Damanshot; 01/29/13 04:50 PM.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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Chud said he wanted a defense that would confuse people.
well, I think everyone is confused because no one knows what we are going to do lol Including the coaches
Hunter + Dart = This is the way.
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Well he said all the right things... we are going to the super bowl.
To hear him talk about the players, we should have gone this year!  
"I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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Cleveland Browns defensive coordinator Ray Horton doesn't see need for an overhaul to run his 3-4 scheme | cleveland.com http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2013/01/cleveland_browns_defensive_coo_11.html#incart_2boxBEREA, Ohio -- New Cleveland Browns defensive coordinator Ray Horton said Tuesday that he doesn't envision a massive overhaul in personnel to switch to his new 3-4, multi-front, attack-minded scheme. That's because he already has the two key ingredients he needs to power his aggressive, Pittsburgh-like defense. "I've got the perfect mix here of big guys that can run and little guys that will hit," Horton said in his introductory news conference. He repeated the "big guys that can run, little guys that can hit" credo so many times that it became a refrain during the press conference, and one that will be the hallmark of the Horton era. But that's exactly what he saw when he flipped on the film to study the Browns for what initially was a head-coaching interview. He saw guys like rookie defensive Billy Winn picking off a pass against the Steelers and making plays downfield. He saw tackle Ahtyba Rubin hustling to the ball and making plays all over the field. He saw guys like safety T.J. Ward thumping receivers and separating running backs from the ball. "I love this team," said Horton, who spent the past two seasons as Arizona's defensive coordinator. "I love the way it's constituted right now, because they give effort from the first game against Philadelphia all the way through to the last game against Pittsburgh. "When you watch our defensive line, they get after the quarterback, and then they turn and run and make multiple plays downfield. And then you see our little guys, who you know can run, but the thing that impressed you is they can hit. If you can give me that for 16 weeks like they did, you don't need anything else." Horton spent seven seasons as a defensive backs coach in Pittsburgh (2004-10) absorbing the defensive genius of coordinator Dick LeBeau. But Horton refused to get hung up on labeling his defense even though he stressed last week in an interview on 910 radio in Arizona that he will run a 3-4 front, and coach Rob Chudzinski described it as a 3-4, multi-front scheme. "I don't really care what we are on defense," Horton said. "I want to know what are we going to look like. We're going to look like an aggressive, forward-attacking defense . . . and I've seen that on tape. "That's the most important thing to me – what do we look like, not what we line up in. We may be a 3-4 on one snap. We may be a 4-3 on another snap. I guarantee you we'll be a 5-2 sometimes, and we'll be a 4-4 sometimes. We are a multi-front, attacking defense, and that's the most important thing." Likewise, Horton stressed that the current players on the roster, who spent two years in the 4-3 under previous coordinator Dick Jauron, shouldn't get concerned that they might not fit into the new scheme. "Our guys can play a multitude of things (and) we're going to be a defense that gives offenses problems," said Horton. "I don't like to get pigeonholed into, 'Well, he is this.' We're going to be a team that looks at the offense and tries to take away what they do best. "That may mean one snap being 5-2, the next snap it may be 4-4. It will be predicated by what the offense does. We have athletes that can stand up, that can put their hand in the ground, that can run, so that's why I go back to the multi-front defense. "I can't tell you what we're going to be right now. It depends on who we line up game one against and what do we need to take away." Chudzinski, who has already talked to many of his new players including linebacker D'Qwell Jackson, also urged his defenders not to worry that they'll be the odd man out. "If you're a good football player, you're a good football player," said Chudzinski. "I don't think that the scheme is so different that good football players don't fit and won't be able to play in this scheme." At the end of the season, several players, such as defensive end Jabaal Sheard, expressed concern over a switch to the 3-4, which could mean a move to outside linebacker for Sheard, at least in some fronts. "I've been playing the 4-3 the last eight years, basically all of my career," said Sheard. "Obviously, I like the 4-3 and I think it's a great defense . . . I think we should just stick to the 4-3 and keep it going." Can Sheard make the transition to outside linebacker if necessary? "I would hope my answer would be, 'Let's not put limits on what players can and cannot do,' " said Horton. "Jabaal is a guy that I have seen on film that can rush the quarterback and is athletic. What we are going to do as a coaching staff is put each one of our guys in the best position. I'm looking at the offense we are playing and what they do best and what can I do to take it away. (Sheard) may be a strong safety some time, he can be a linebacker, he can be a D end. I want him to tell me what he can do best and not put a label on what he is." Horton also noticed that players such as Winn have the versatility to play inside or out. "I've seen Billy quite a bit during the season, and he came up with a fantastic interception where he was rushing, the ball was tipped and he came back and made a great diving catch, and that goes back to my point of what these big men can do," said Horton. "They can all run and they're athletic, and so it just gives us the ability to move guys around. Maybe Billy's inside, maybe Billy's outside, maybe he's dropping because he's so athletic. And that's what we're talking about (with) this defense." In regards to players such as Jackson, who excelled in the 4-3, Horton says he'll be open-minded to their input. He said Jackson contacted him right away and "was anxious." "That's one of the things I do well is I let the players tell me what to do, because they will by how they play, how they react, what they do on the field, what they do in the meeting room," said Horton. "I like to be malleable where I'm not so rigid that 'This is it. This is the only way to do it.' You've got to be flexible and let your players tell you what they do best. All I'm asking my players to do is trust us as a coaching staff that we will put them in great positions." Horton, who played 10 seasons as a defensive back for the Bengals and Cowboys and spent most of his career as a secondary coach, is excited to inherit 2010 first-rounder Haden and second-rounder Ward, who are hitting their prime. Last season, his Cardinals finished second in the NFL with 22 interceptions, including seven by former first-rounder Patrick Peterson, who also led the league with five fumble recoveries. "What I see in TJ is a player who is dynamic in the run game, a player that's going to get better because he's a smart player that will hit," said Horton. "He's a smaller guy, he's not a big man, but he will hit you. "I'm excited for a chance to coach him and grow with him and understand what he does best. He will tell me what he does best by how he practices, how he plays and again it's limitless what we can do with players who can run and hit." As for Haden, he said, "good hands, good feet, takes good keys, can play the ball and he'll tackle. A lot of (success is) predicated on how the guys next to him and in front of him play. If you're on a good team it's easy to be good. As the defense comes along, everybody will get sucked up in that jet stream of, 'Wow, this is a good defense because I can make a play.' " One thing is for sure: Horton's defenses will blitz, much like LeBeau's in Pittsburgh. Last season, the Cardinals pressured more than any other team in the league except for the Houston Texans. In his radio interview last week, Horton promised the Browns' defense will "look exactly the same" as the Steelers and mirror them. "I bring a lot," said Horton. "I bring little guys, corners, they blitz, I bring big guys, I drop big guys into coverage. I think when you put pressure on the quarterback, everybody gets better. You get more sacks. You get more turnovers. So that to me is the key, pressure on the quarterback." Chudzinski stressed that Horton's ability to show multiple looks and be aggressive makes him the perfect fit. "His pressure packages are outstanding," said Chudzinski. "He brings 'em from all over the place, different guys, but he's still sound in his schemes. It's a tribute to Ray and the job he does. He's very competitive, a fiery guy as a coach. He relates very well to the players and is an outstanding teacher, and those are all three qualities that bode well for us here and help us be the best we can be."
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Well he said all the right things... we are going to the super bowl.
To hear him talk about the players, we should have gone this year!
The three top coaches of this team, Chud, Turner and Horton are all saying the right things. if they coach as well as they communicate, we may actually have finally found our winning combination.
#GMSTRONG
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"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Horton was the chosen one to replace Lebeau. The steelers held onto him for years then finally let him go on his own. His D is fun to watch but lets not forget this is the D that gave up 58 pts to the Seahawks and really looked like crap at times down the stretch.
I am one of those that do believe most of our players will translate well to this version of the 3-4. Heckert drafted athleticism and hustle. I think Horton is able to communicate well with his players and his system is very fun for players. If a guy has athleticism and Hustle, he can thrive in this system.
Not all will succeed but there may be some surprises as well. I want to see how some of these backers react to being asked to kill the QB over and over and over. I want to see TJ Ward turned loose.
I prefer the 4-3 but if you are going to a 3-4 this is the system I prefer. Its damn near Buddy Ball.
Good stuff Mour. I also believe our current players will transition well. We have a few guys who have or can play NT and Winn IMO is a natural 3-4 DE.
I read a stat somewhere that Sheard played standing up around 22% of the time this past season and dropped in to coverage more than a few times. He's not going to 1 on 1 guys past a back out of the backfield on a swing, but in a zone I can see him protecting his area.
I myself have always liked the 3-4. Even more so today. With spread option football now in the NFL, at least the NFL version of such, my thinking is having 1 more faster guy on the field is better.
My hope is Horton is here a couple of years before he gets his call and we have some young stud in the defensive coaching ranks who can pick up and carry on the LeBeau system.
I like what I am seeing so far.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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His D is fun to watch but lets not forget this is the D that gave up 58 pts to the Seahawks and really looked like crap at times down the stretch.
They looked like crap because Arizona's offense couldn't stay on the field.
And in the Seattle game, Arizona's offense turned the ball over 8 times.
I watched Arizona's D fairly often this year ... I don't dislike the Horton hire.
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I'm thinking Cioffi (DB coach) may just be that guy you're looking for to continue on the path after Horton leaves.
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I watch every NFL game thanks to that 30 minute replay they have with sunday ticket and I gotta say our DL hustles more than any team in the league. I was actually disappointed with Jauron going even more conservative this year and trust me I am a huge Jauron fan.
I kept thinking man if Buddy had this team every quarterback in the league would be shaking in their boots and that is without the elite Rush DE. Now here comes Horton and I gotta say, he seems to be licking his chops and thinking the same damn thing. Time to take the dawgs off the chain.
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Am I the only guy who is excited about the thought of our defense next year? I would rather get burned once in a while than to sit back and watch teams march up and down the field on our D. I Love the addition of Chud, Turner, and Horton. If the Browns don't let Lombardi screw things up I like the look of our future 
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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Who would have thought Hughes and Winn would have turned out as viable starters after last years draft. Same story with Rubin.
No question in a 3-4 front that this squad has some significant depth. If Sheard works out as a tweener we're golden.
I'm excited that we're going from about as vanilla as possible on O and D to about as aggressive as possible. Should be fun to watch moving forward.
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Ytown, I have sat back and waited for this day to come and now that its here, I will call it like it is... BULLS**T!!!.. Hybrid = BULLS**T!.. the only hybrid i want to hear about is a cobra 5 iron hybrid/25 degree/ stiff flex.. other than that.. Crap!! The reason I saw that is when you are trying to run a 3-4, you have to have 2 LBs that can fill holes, take on and beat a guard and make the tackle?? Will some one tell me who is that on our roster??? Because DQ is a 4-3 backer, not a 3-4 backer!! We do not have enough good outside LBs and or DEs are build for a 1 technique 4-3, not the 2/3 technique needed for a 3-4. I am so tired of coaches( and I like Horton, just wrong person for the personnel we have) talking about they are leaders of men but can only teach ONE SCHEME!! We all knew he was going 3-4, why, because that is what he knows!. Mind you, how about looking at your personnel( BTW - we have been building a 4-3 for 2 years) and designing a defense around them... 
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Who would have thought Hughes and Winn would have turned out as viable starters after last years draft. Same story with Rubin.
Do you mean besides me?
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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One hope that I have is that this coach will get the time to build this team over several years without going through the constant changes we have gone through over the past decade plus. I am growing less concerned about having every player we currently have fit the offense and defense, than finding a system that can consistently win, and if we have to change a player here or there, then so be it.
I like DQ. I think that he's a quality player. However, he will be 30 in September ...... and building a defense simply to fit a 3 year old MLB/ILB makes little sense. I want a system that we can build upon. I don't care whether it's a 4-3 or a 3-4. I want the team to be able to build over the years, and add players who are the best fit. That means finding a system, and remaining consistent to the basics of that system.
My hope is that this team will do something now that we have failed to do for the past decade, and that's settle on a system on each side of the ball, and then be able to go find players who are an excellent fit for those systems.
If Chud is still here in 5 years, and we are still a 3-4 team in 5 years, then I believe that we will be on a successful path. If we are on a successful path, then individual players who may have fallen by the wayside won't matter as much.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Getting the right people in place is the most important thing. If you do that everything else will fall into place.
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Horton had a press conference today. Anyone know what he said?
It WILL be a hybrid defense, as was stated way before this thread was started. "An attacking aggressive front" with 3-4, 4-3, 5-2 & 4-4 sets.
He also said that when he looked at the roster he saw big men who could run and little men who could hit, and "if you give me those two things, we'll be a good defense."
Ray uses the term "Multiple Front" and Chud uses the term "Hybrid". They both mean the same thing.
No labels on the player regarding what they are... ie; Sheard as a pass rusher or OLB.
He's flexible regarding adapting the system to the players, not the other way around.
He likes the personnel, and likes that they give good effort every game, no drop off from game one to game 16.
Wants to be unpredictable (based on who we're playing, situation etc,) as to where the big men line up, inside, outside, rush, drop back into coverage, etc...
This single post should close the thread, as far as I'm concerned....
....because it puts to rest ALL the issues discussed (in overwrought detail) by well-maning (and decidedly rabid) Dawgs.
Read this post. It will tell you all you need, regarding Our New Direction.
We won't be a pure, textbook 3-4.
We will use sets that don't even have a designation.
We will look different from down to down.... and for that matter:
We will look different than any other D in the NFL.-
We WON'T be vanilla, plain and predictable.
As a fan of The Game... and lifelong Cleveland Browns fan, what more could you ask for your entertainment dollar on Sunday afternoons?
IMHO, a Chud/Turner- run offense, combined with an attacking, unpredictable Horton-led D is gonna give Browns fans all the weekly excitement their tired, shriveled hearts can stand....
...and, in the end- don't we ALL want to be entertained?
I, for one, am starting to look forward to what we might see. I don't give a hang about new uniforms.... give me an O and D that makes pro teams look befuddled, and I'll take the final score of each game as it is- for better or worse.
Just give me some {GD) excitement, won't ya?
"too many notes, not enough music-"
#GMStong
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Ytown,
I have sat back and waited for this day to come and now that its here, I will call it like it is... BULLS**T!!!.. Hybrid = BULLS**T!.. the only hybrid i want to hear about is a cobra 5 iron hybrid/25 degree/ stiff flex.. other than that.. Crap!!
The reason I saw that is when you are trying to run a 3-4, you have to have 2 LBs that can fill holes, take on and beat a guard and make the tackle?? Will some one tell me who is that on our roster??? Because DQ is a 4-3 backer, not a 3-4 backer!! We do not have enough good outside LBs and or DEs are build for a 1 technique 4-3, not the 2/3 technique needed for a 3-4.
I am so tired of coaches( and I like Horton, just wrong person for the personnel we have) talking about they are leaders of men but can only teach ONE SCHEME!! We all knew he was going 3-4, why, because that is what he knows!. Mind you, how about looking at your personnel( BTW - we have been building a 4-3 for 2 years) and designing a defense around them...
LOL. Well Mr. Talent Evaluator. Let's set up a meeting so you can tell Horton he's full o' crap.
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Yeah, you cherry-picked a couple of pro-bowlers. Nice. 
A VERY poor and transparent attempt if I've ever seen one, and not worthy of debate.
Hey, they were you examples off of your list. Next time, if you wish to make a point, maybe you should cherry pick the list you post a little better. They were both names you listed as examples that 3-4 DE's don't make that much money and aren't big investments.
If you don't like it, maybe you should be more careful next time. Your list was to prove your point and not mine. Epic fail. Don't blame me for your screw up.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Well he said all the right things... we are going to the super bowl.
To hear him talk about the players, we should have gone this year!
The three top coaches of this team, Chud, Turner and Horton are all saying the right things. if they coach as well as they communicate, we may actually have finally found our winning combination.
I'm excited about the coaching staff, nervous as hell about the FO. 
"I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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That kinda worries me a little too, I mean about the constant changing. then I remember that for better or worse, Banners history is to hang onto people and let them work through the tough things that come along.
Haslem seems to be the same type of guy in his other business venture. so, maybe I'm concerned about nothing. Maybe they'll get the time it takes.
Really, so far, the only thing I don't like at all is the Lombardi hire..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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The Same Old Argument By Dave Kolonich OBR Browns Reporter Posted Jan 29, 2013 With the introduction of Browns new defensive coordinator Ray Horton this week, the team is also switching back to a 3-4. DK writes that the change isn't as daunting as some Browns fans have portrayed.I touched on this topic briefly last week, but I feel it’s again worth stating how ridiculously dated fan comments have become around the Browns’ little corner of the Internet. The latest example comes from Cleveland.com (where else?) and poses the following directive to the new Browns’ regime: Cleveland.com – Comment of the Day “I liked the way the 4-3 D was working last year. Now we’ll have to draft lots of LB’s. Hopefully he can get the NEW D to jell very quickly. I’m tired of all these constant changes.” Thanks, C-Town. So…exactly how many linebackers do the Browns need? “Lots.” Like, more than one or less than an entire locker room? “Lots.” We might be here for a while. I don’t mean to exclusively pick on one virtual Browns’ fan, but C-Town is not alone in thinking that somehow the Browns are going to have to completely overhaul their current roster to accommodate Ray Horton’s new 3-4 “hybrid” defense. This type of thinking is warranted if only based on our recent experience in watching Phil Savage and Eric Mangini make clumsy attempts at doing such a thing. However, this evidence is either 4 or 7 years old – which in NFL terms may as well be two decades. It’s certainly not worth revisiting all the failed draft picks and free agent signings of supposedly 3-4 specific types of players – the majority of which didn’t pan out in Cleveland. Instead, let’s briefly visit the most basic numbers of the situation. Last season, the Browns carried 6-8 linebackers on their roster and depending on a given game, dressed anywhere from 5-7. These numbers are excluding Emmanuel Acho and Chris Gocong, who spent the season on injured reserve. And if you choose to do so, you can throw in Scott Fuita, who extended his retirement for a third year in 2012. This amount of linebackers reflected the team’s 4-3 alignment and Special Teams needs. For a review, here are the team’s 2012 linebackers: MLB – D’Qwell Jackson, James Michael Johnson, Tank Carder OLB – L.J. Fort, Craig Robertson, Kaluka Maiava IR – Chris Gocong, Emmanuel Acho It’s likely that every linebacker except Maiava (free agent) will at least compete for a roster spot in 2013. Depending on cap concerns and the actions of the new personnel people in charge, Gocong can be added, which would bring the skeletal list to 7. If you want, go ahead and throw Jabaal Sheard in as a “linebacker” – at least if you’re a stickler for categorizing defenders. For a comparison, the gold standard of 3-4 defenses – the Steelers – carried anywhere from 8 to 10 linebackers in 2012 and regularly suited up 6 to 8 per game. Horton’s Cardinals carried 7 to 9. So, to move on from a simple numbers argument, the Browns basically need to draft one linebacker and probably find another in free agency. Lucky for the Browns, they have 6 draft picks (7 if you include the conditional David Sims pick) and some 40 million dollars in cap money. In other words, I think the Browns are going to be okay in this regard. More important is another idea that has been lost on the majority of Browns’ fans. Simply put, the question of 3-4 or 4-3 is becoming a dead argument. In case you haven’t noticed over the last fifteen years, the NFL has become a passing league. The majority of teams (both good and bad) pass nearly 60% of the time and regularly line up 3 to 4 wide receivers. This has become more than just a trend – despite some teams adopting more college zone read/spread attacks. Naturally, the league’s smarter defenses have stocked up on defensive backs and have adopted more flexible schemes. But if you really consider the amount of plays run in a game (60 to 80), then the 3-4 or 4-3 argument further weakens. Adding obvious short yardage and goal line situations to the already high number of Nickel and Dime packages, how many plays truly justify defenses using a base 4-3 or 3-4? Maybe 30-40% of the time? If you follow my logic here, then why are we still having the same tired 4-3 or 3-4 conversation? Have people not noticed that NFL base defenses have become Nickel packages? At least one guy has. Here’s new Browns’ Head Coach Rob Chudzinski on this subject: “Sometimes, you are in your base defense only on first down. After that you morph into what the offense is doing.” So now, the question becomes – how do NFL defenses best cover and best rush the passer – after first down, that is? Or, how does an NFL defense help a team win a Super Bowl? I’m not sure the answer is to load up on linebackers. Again, for the sake of a familiar comparison, even the Steelers’ linebackers only produced 20 total sacks. Instead, the idea is to make a defense flexible enough to cover, adaptive enough to stop the occasional run-heavy team and creative enough to rush the passer in all types of situations. If you’re basing your argument in traditional 3-4 or 4-3 schemes, then you’ve already lost. Of course, since we’ve only experienced more traditional 1980's based 3-4 schemes (Romeo Crennel and some Eric Mangini) and a dated 4-3 variety (Dick Jauron), it’s easy to fall in line with past experience. Or, even if you’ve really studied this season’s playoffs, you may not even be aware of the base defenses that each team runs – simply because the better defenses have more specific game plans and/or NFL offenses tend to dictate defensive packages. However, if you’re truly interested in the type of scheme the Browns may run, here’s a quick primer. (Thanks to Zack Luby). In the Browns’ specific case, maybe the only real taste of contemporary defensive thinking to occur during the expansion era came with Rob Ryan’s brief 2010 run against the Saints and Patriots. The “Amoeba Defense”, flexible line formations and multiple blitzes seemed to counter traditional alignments, but again were based more on specific game plans (and really a lack of quality defenders) than a base defense. Anyway, the game has evolved and a team’s personnel needs have similarly changed – making the following positions vital for a successful team: 1. Pass Rushers Be it a down lineman or outside linebacker, the point is that teams who rush the passer tend to win championships. The best evidence can be found in the Giants’ two Super Bowl wins and the Patriots’ most recent Super Bowl losses. 2. Slot Cornerbacks The slot cornerback has evolved into a value that’s likely greater than a solid “number two” corner. In fact, a lot of teams (the Ravens) have masked their cornerback depth by placing their third best corner on the outside – something that was unheard of in the past. However, players like Wes Welker, Victor Cruz and Danny Amendola are now in positions to dominate games. And considering that Horton likes to use elements of Dick LeBeau’s zone blitz scheme, the Browns’ corners are going to playing more man coverage – which yet again, is pretty much becoming the norm around the league. 3. Hybrid Safeties On Sunday, we’ll watch a dying breed in Baltimore’s Ed Reed. The more prototypical NFL safety today is basically more of a linebacker than anything else. Or, just keep an eye on San Francisco’s safeties – players who are basically interchangeable between run defense and over the middle coverage. Luckily in Cleveland, the Browns have one of the league’s better versions of this new kind of safety in T.J. Ward. Certainly, Horton’s defense gives Ward even more opportunities to do what he does best – which is play close to the line of scrimmage. And speaking of changes, the following positions aren’t as valuable anymore: 1. Middle Linebacker Naturally, the Super Bowl presents a counter to this argument in regards to Navarro Bowman, Patrick Willis and Ray Lewis. However, the league-wide trend is a de-emphasis on the position in favor of finding more versatile linebackers who can rush the passer and cover running backs and tight ends. Regardless of a real or perceived lack of linebacker depth, it doesn’t make a lot of sense to load up linebackers during April’s draft. A quick check of the last few drafts shows how teams have mostly stayed away from drafting non-pass rushing linebackers. 2. Free Safety It seems unnatural, but with a rise in passing, the role of an NFL free safety has actually been reduced. Given the increasing number of defensive backs on the field, there is little job description beyond “playing center field” left for a free safety. After all, the dearth of talent left at free safety means that a knucklehead like Usama Young is actually considered proficient (sometimes). And if we’re again talking about what has become a “third down on every down” league, then base defenses aren’t as important as the value a lot of us attach to them. Defenses need to figure out who their top four or five pass rushers are and line them up in the best positions. If that means the Browns’ 3-4 defense calls for Sheard to line up as a 4-3 defensive end – so be it. Or, if Billy Winn rotates from tackle to end, great. Anything else is just a dumb attempt to categorize players into familiar boxes. Or, if the Browns’ new personnel people are realists, they will quickly figure out that this is a team that needs to create pressure from the outside. Naturally, in the hands of some fans, this topic will regress into whether a college defensive end can play outside linebacker or vice versa – or whether there is a Cleveland Browns’ time machine stuck in 2005. But again – the idea is simple. The Browns need to pressure opposing quarterbacks in order to consistently win games – something that hasn’t regularly occurred in 14 seasons. A similar principle relates to coverage in the secondary. In a league where multiple receiver sets necessitate more man coverage, the value attached to any solid coverage cornerback has appreciated. And much like a season ago (or even two years ago), the Browns are still thin at corner beyond Joe Haden. Regardless of any 3-4 talk, the new Browns’ defensive philosophy appears to be blitz heavy – which requires solid coverage all over the field. And some talented defensive players. Or “lots” of linebackers. Either way. OBR
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Yeah, you cherry-picked a couple of pro-bowlers. Nice.
A VERY poor and transparent attempt if I've ever seen one, and not worthy of debate.
Hey, they were you examples off of your list. Next time, if you wish to make a point, maybe you should cherry pick the list you post a little better.
Ahhh...except I didn't "cherry pick" my list. I, unlike you, played it straight and said the following: "Here, I'll help you out. Here's a list of all the starting 3-4 DE's I can think of."
I listed all the names I could think of. You pretended to use only...how did you put it..."two names I'm familiar with." 
I guess if you're only familiar with those two names that you aren't qualified to speak on the subject. 
If you're going to pick out the pro-bowlers who make big bucks, at least admit it instead of pretending you were being fair.
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They were both names you listed as examples that 3-4 DE's don't make that much money and aren't big investments.
I didn't say that. YOU said that.
See how that works?
I listed all the names I could think of to show how many no-name players there are in the 3-4 DE camp. I did not list them stating they were all cheap players.
YOU said that. 
Quote:
If you don't like it, maybe you should be more careful next time.
I remember when a debate ended when one guy was right. Not only has your statement that 3-4 DE's are more expensive been thoroughly debunked, but instead of just letting it go you've now been cold BUSTED trying to cherry-pick the two pro-bowlers out of the larger lineup as proof of something.
I respect my elders. I know you just can't stand to not have the last word, so I'll give it to ya. It still won't change the fact...and it IS a fact...that 3-4 DE's are less expensive and easier to find than 4-3 DE's.
Edge-rushers who can get to the QB command the big bucks. Those aren't 34 DE's. In our defense, those are going to be the OLB's. Let's just hope this regime doesn't try and saddle us with any more Kenard Lang's and instead tries to get us real rushers...
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,936
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,936 |
Just clicking...
Talk is cheap. We've heard this sort of yapping before (ad nauseum). I used to get excited at this kind of off-season chatter. Not anymore. I've had it. I'll believe these guys when I see it actually play out on the field (and I won't be holding my breath waiting for it either).
I'll always be a Browns fan, but no longer will I be a gullible one. One can only drink so much unsweetened Kool-Aid before you realize how awful it tastes. It's time for this team to make a believer out me. For a change.
[color:"white"]"Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."
-- Mark Twain [/color]
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015 |
Based on your sig and your comments, you HAVE had it, haven't you, hehe.
Of course if you sell your seats this'll be the year we go to the playoffs, so...
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,936
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,936 |
Quote:
Based on your sig and your comments, you HAVE had it, haven't you, hehe.
Of course if you sell your seats this'll be the year we go to the playoffs, so...
Shhhh!! Reverse-psychology may be the the ONLY ploy I haven't yet tried in my 40+ years of conscious fan-dom to will the Browns to a championship before I kick the bucket. Don't mess it up by calling it out!
[color:"white"]"Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."
-- Mark Twain [/color]
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,027
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
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I'm really hoping he shows the 1-10 defense. Seriously, good luck throwing at that scheme.
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