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I would love to get Ellerbe but I doubt he leaves Baltimore.
#1 on my list is Jared Cook TE. I think you guys know my thoughts on him by now.
I would go after Victor Butler OLb. I think he is a young guy that is about to come into his own and we can get at a reasonable price.
We will sign a Cb. Which one? Munnerlyn. I would love Keenen Lewis but I think that a lot of teams will.
I think we also bring in a veteran Wr. I would love Cruz but don't think that will happen. Donnie Avery
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Make that 3 out of 4 as all 3 of Lewis, Ellerbe and Quin will land contracts (and cap hits) north of 5mil/season
We can spend probably around 20-25mil if we want to, the rest will be needed for the draft and to re-sign our own guys (Mack, Ward, Haden)
That said, we can land one "rich" guy at 7-10mil, think Kruger...hope we stay away from the top dollar OGs and CBs and WRs...and Avril, would all be huge gambles imho. Kruger has the highest floor and I would be ok with, but would rather sign 2 more in the 4-6mil range than 1 in this tier
After that, we'd still have around 15mil...with that we can sign 2 in the 4-7mil range: think Lewis, Toler for CB or TE Bennett (hope we dont go Cook) or DL Bryant or FS Moore/Goldson or ILB B.Jones...if we "avoid" the big money guys, we can sign 4 and fill 4 needs with solid, above AVG players...I'd go for CB, TE, DE and ILB in this range...hoping to get one of the other FS a little cheaper later or maybe on a 1year-prove it deal, but FS and TE can be flip/flopped
I do not think we can spend as wildly as many on here think as we have to project the cap forward and contracts even for depth players in FA have gone north of 2-3 mil/season and pretty much any starter costs 4-5mil minimum, up to 10-12...and no, frontloading contracts isn't very smart, especially with FAs who you do not know how motivated they are. Say you frontload, you motivate the guy to go through the motion and cut you again...so that he can get another big fat signing bonus elsewhere...frontloading is always a risk and for that you have to trust and know the player...I'd consider that with our OWN guys when re-signing them and even then, there's risk attached to this strategy
We have to find some "bargains" in order to fill most of our needs....we need starting caliber players at DE, OLB, ILB, FS, CB, FB, TE...and then we'd all like some competition (at least borderline starter caliber) at QB, G and WR....thats 10 needs (12 if you add K and P) and we can at best address 4-6 of them in FA and 1 or 2 max in the draft...we have to "punt" 3-4 of those positions and I'd say G, WR, TE should be punted because of bad FA value and the youth we still have there
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Jared Cook has undeachived in College and in the Pros and he thinks he should be paid like a WR...red flags galore. He has all the makings of a FA bust, he's in it for the money and whoever gives it to him will regret it imho...why should he all of a sudden play up to his talent if you reward his underachieving ways? He'll relax some more and just tease/flash enough to get that next offseason roster bonus...no thanks. If you want a guy like that, they're in every draft in rounds 2-4...as was Cook...and they'd be much cheaper
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Never saw him in college. But in Tennessee, they just always seem to put the TE position on the back burner. He had a young (not so good) Qb. And I think he had an injury if I recall correctly (I am not certain).
If I was him and Tennessee was trying to franchise me, I would most certainly argue that I was a Wr. Most of what I have read from "those in the know" suggest that he would have won that appeal. Doesn't suggest that he is in it just for the money.
As for price, perhaps he prices himself out of the market. It is hard to know what guys are willing/not willing to sign for.
I definitely agree with you that a lot of people think that we will be spending more money than we have/should. But again, it is hard to know what guys will be ultimately be signed for.
Don't blame the clown for acting like a clown.
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As a caveat, all my FA suggestions are with a fair and reasonable price. What team thinks that is and what the player thinks may be vastly different and may preclude a deal being made. While I like Cook, If he demands $10 mil/year (the Wr franchise number) then I wouldn't sign him.
Don't blame the clown for acting like a clown.
Ask yourself why you keep going to the circus.
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j/c NFL | David Akers plans to find new job Wed, 06 Mar 2013 17:48:21 -0800 The agent free-agent PK David Akers (49ers) (hernia) said Wednesday, March 6, that his client has no intention of retiring. His agent also said Akers had a "minor surgical procedure" within the last month to further address the lingering media issue that plagued him throughout 2012. web page For those of your who weren't certain whether the media is intrusive or not... I'm guessing this "procedure" had something to do with removing them from a southern anatomical region. 
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/hfMNC7T.jpg) "I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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The Chiefs just released RT Eric Winston. Werent the Browns looking at him last yr? ps: My first reply so im not sure how to just reply to the board and not a person 
There's always next year
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Welcome aboard.
Just type j/c (just clicking) or NRTU (not responding to you) to post in general.
There was chatter about him last year... I don't know how serious it was. Hindsight is 20/20 and we came out okay drafting Schwartz.
"I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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My wish list:
FS Dashon Goldson
K Phil Dawson
DE Mike Devito
OG Brandon Moore
WR Brian Hartline
ILB Dannell Ellerbe
We have to spend some money to hit the cap floor, which I believe is $109.2MM
We're currently at $83.5MM.
If we get Goldson or another FS, we could cut Usama Young which would clear up $2.2MM. Gocong is our 6th-highest cap hit, and cutting him would free up $4.2MM. If McCoy is sent packing, that's another $2.3MM
I really don't think Gocong is a LB. He's an undersized run-stuffing DE. Every good play he's made has been when he is allowed to just attack the LOS. He is embarrassing in space.
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I'm 99.999% sure you can forget about Hartline & Ellerbe.
"I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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I will be ecstatic with anyone we sign,but I'm not interested in either of them. Avril
turned down $30 million from Detroit last year.so how much is he going to want from
us? Krueger has a short resume for the cost,in my estimation.We could get more
bang for our bucks targeting other players.The position that they play is the one most
likely to be filled thru the draft.
Ellerbee is the LB we should be targeting from Baltimore,not Krueger.The pass
rusher we can get in the draft The savings here could be used in solidifying another
position.
I would rather see us get another guard(Vasquez/SD,Moore/Pats,Thomas/Jets),
cornerback(Lewis/Pitts,Cason/SD), and a TE(Myers/Oak), than spend all of our
cap space on 1 player.We are not 1 player away.In another year I would agree with
you,but not now.
Avril and maybe even Krueger would be luxury players for us. I think this is all just
part of the smoke screen teams and the media put out to cover their true
intentions. My out look on this years free agency is that the sum of many small
riipples equals a big splash.
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Good breakdown Tuna...thought I was reading an article till it hit me this was too indepth to be made by a Bozo  ( my term for Sport Journalists of this era) 
DL : not much need possible young guys out there who are aggressive...Big n can run. Was that Horton's term we need depth. No big expenditures in FA or Draft...Mid to late round picks n 2nd tier guys.
LB: I like DQ - JMJ who knows seems to have the tools for ILB n probably our best youngster to make the grade. One guy that probably I might be the only one excited about is (if healthy) Gocong. I think throughout his career he has been used incorrectly. WlLB in Mangini's 3-4, WILL in Eagles 4-3 D n Jauron's 4-3 here. All read n react. Due to injuries he was moved to the SAM side...Steelers game - 1st down n Goal to go from 2??? We attack with him...he dominates the series of downs. It was like a new LB was born...after that unlike a Jauron D we saw Gocong attacking more n more n looking very successful at it. Now finally we are in an ATTACK D...Gocong at the SOLB position. I think we will be very surprised with the results. Almost like Miller when he finally got to play in an Attack D for the first time of his career (2001)
Sheard who knows...I hope we get our WOLB in the draft or w/Avril n still draft one. If so I can see Sheard a draft day trade to a 4-3 D especially a new one like Cowboys who probably will lose Spencer.
Other guys Maiava...UFA I think unless he is a RFA n we low tag him? Fort, Robertson back up stuff n ST...I think Tank Carder has a 3-4 body???
High on my FA list is Ellerbe - he n DQ would make a solid ILB unit. Kruger for some reason I'm not wowed by him either. Avril at least is a WOLB candidate to eliminate "NEED" come draft day.
Draft Ziggy Ansah or Jarvis Jones!
DB: 4 in FA? I think 2 quality FAs will be good. Talib? Answahgwa (you know  ) or another...I'll leave it to Horton. Also a FS...aging CB? Draft...definitely a corner somewhere? BPA develop the youngsters here for the rest.
OL: FA? None move me
Draft - Long is available w/our 3rd...jump on him I think he might start at LG n be a lock there for a long time. See so much ES in him but he is naturally bigger.
TE: Isn't Alex Smith a UFA? If so that leaves only Cameron.
Hoping for Finley to get the boot especially if Long FA LT unbelievable first time a top LT hits the FA market...man o man....Bears, Packers...heck even Pats.
Keller...I'd stay away with...cannot remember a season he isn't hurt as in even if he's on the field he's hurt. maybe too small for the hits? Cook...amazing raw talent I remember from the draft...had to learn something since then???
Draft obviously not at #6 which leaves 3rd round??? If BPA we jump on it I guess.
Carey (Texans) for HB if we go that route instead of FB?
RB: No need unless we are talking about upgrading FB but if so won't be a big investment.
WR: wanted Cribbs but looks like he is gone. Gordon, Little, Benjamin, Norwood...FA 2nd tier...One of the few times I wouldn't have minded going for the big gun...Wallace. Godon, Little n Wallace in the slot...I thought pretty good!
Cooper easy to upgrade we could settle on him but Weeden don't carry the weight he did with the last regime Draft rounds 4-6 if BPA go ahead.
QB...If we can move Colt for a pick...then sign DA in FA
draft. Glennon in the 3rd Peter Lalich in the 6th. ???
Top of my FA list. Ellerbe LB, Talib CB, FS??? would like one, TE Cook or Finley (if released) WR Wallace?? But I doubt it.
Mourgym thanks for the list.
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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How much do you think Andy Levitre is going to ask for? It's not like the Browns can't currently pay the price to obtain one of the premiere guards in the NFL.
Where will Warmack go in the draft? I'm not be confident that he would be there in the mid-1st round to be had. It's not like if you missed on Warmack that it would be the end of things because Warford could be gotten later.
I'm not so much concerned by Phillips age at 32. He was more productive of a pass rusher than Kruger and Barwin (who fell off the face of the earth from 2011). Avril wouldn't be that bad but he's likely to cost more than Phillips and Turner might be able to persuade Phillips to come on over.
Matt Moore would be in to push Brandon Weeden. He's got more time in the league and he's a year younger. When he was thrust into the starting role, he did more than a capable job. Bringing Moore in would force Weeden to earn the job because Moore would be a real threat to win the job from Weeden.
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ON NFL network they are all projecting Sheard to WOLB (right side). Now they talk to Lombardi enough that I am pretty sure this was in the plan combined with the fact the FA players we were supposedly interested in play on the strong side (left side Usually). Kruger and Avril
PFT also had an article a day or two ago about the Broncos were asking Dummerville to take a pay cut. They want to sign Freeney and need to clear some money. My thinking is they will be shopping Elvis and I would love him in this scheme.
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Quote:
According to a report from the Denver Post, the Denver Broncos want defensive end Elvis Dumervil to take a pretty serious pay cut, and they may release the three-time Pro Bowler and one-time first-team All-Pro if he doesn't agree.
Link
Dumervil is a guy I would go after for sure.
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One of the FAs I would like to see come here is Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie. After being traded by ARZ, playing on a disastrous Dream Team, and not being re-signed by PHL, I don't think he's going to command a large contract. And with him being only 26 yrs old, I think there is the chance he could get better as our #2 CB. Also, with Joe Banner having a say in bringing him to PHL in the first place, I could see a natural connection here. There has been some inconsistency in production with DRC but the natural speed and talent is noticeable.
Captain Munnerlyn from CAR may also be an option because of Chud's ties there.
Another guy maybe under the radar is Jerraud Powers from IND. I did well at times last year and he is only 25. I imagine he wouldn't cost alot of money at all.
Either way, we will need to invest in a couple of CB in either the draft or FA. Skrine height just won't cut it IMO covering a legit WR. I really think the Browns will address the CB in FA with the very real possibility Milliner will be gone by the #6 pick AND we don't have a 2nd rounder to take the next best thing. I know reports are listing Kruger, Avril and Bryant but think a CB or two are high on the list as well.
Just my thoughts....
Tackles are tackles.
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Also think QBs like Chase Daniels or Brian Hoyer will be brought in to compete with Weeden. Then Colt will be released. People have tied Matt Moore to Cleveland but think they may take a shot with a QB with less of a track record and motivation to prove himself. We kinda already know what to expect with Moore. Nothing special and a large enough sample size to know that he would be nothing more of a stop gap, and who knows, Weeden may end up being the stop gap we already have if he doesn't work out.
I think the Browns let the two aforementioned guys battle for the chance to start. Hoyer is a local guy (St. Ignatius) and it would be a nice story coming back to Cleveland. He's 27 also.
Tackles are tackles.
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I see no reason to dump McCoy to bring in another McCoy. (Daniels)
I think that Hoyer could be a possibility, along with Moore.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Quote:
I see no reason to dump McCoy to bring in another McCoy. (Daniels)
I think that Hoyer could be a possibility, along with Moore.
+1
John 3:16 Jesus said "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."
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I'm thinking we sign someone and draft a guy in the later rounds.
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Quote:
I see no reason to dump McCoy to bring in another McCoy. (Daniels)
I think that Hoyer could be a possibility, along with Moore.
Haha. Fair enough. Although I think Daniels has a much stronger arm than McCoy but the height factor is the same. He'd probably cost less than what McCoy is scheduled to make this year as well.
Saints like the small QBs I guess in Brees and Daniels.
Tackles are tackles.
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If the Saints suddenly lost Drew Brees, I think that they would be in a mad scramble to try and find a real NFL QB. (assuming they still had Daniels) It's one thing to have a placeholder at backup QB when your starter plays every down ...... but it's different if you actually had to start the backup.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I got it.
Physical specs spells Edge rusher.
He was our lone Pass Rush specialist.
I can see the natural thought process of putting him on paper at the WOLB position.
I'm saying no way that can be counted on happening in reality.
1. We wanted to bring him to the RDE spot for the same reasons...and then he went back to the LDE spot cause he just was very uncomfortable on that side.
2. Now we got him moving there not only the side that made him uncomfortable as a DE...but now in a new position OLB? As well. Yeah I got high hopes. I mean heck if it works kudos I'm be very very happy. I just think it might be a tough road.
I am very curious on Lombardi's track record I even more curious on Hortons views...possibly the Attack format will have Sheard succeeding???
Who we are interested in? Well all the talking heads were saying Revis at 49ers.
No teams can talk to players yet nor their agents - Agents also might be the leaks to the Sports Networks saying this team n that team is interested in our Client. Ya think?
All I know is that we do have some needs...not too many so that we can fill those needs with some High value FA than 2nd tier Quantity fill for a under talented team. I think we can target 5 quality guys n fill a heck of a lot of needs.
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Would anyone be interested in Bradley Fletcher from the Rams? Only 27 and would look nice paired with Haden.
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Quote:
Kruger has the highest floor and I would be ok with, but would rather sign 2 more in the 4-6mil range than 1 in this tier
I'd say G, WR, TE should be punted because of bad FA value and the youth we still have there
Djhango Could you please explain to me why you feel Kruger has a "higher floor" than Avril?
Kruger 4 year Career stats: 69 Tkls 15.5 sacks
Avril 5 year : 168Tkls 39.5 sacks
Avril has been the more consistant player over his career. I like both guys but I was confused by your statement.
I somewhat agree with you on punting at WR, I still think we need to bring in something at the position. But there are some very good OGs and TE available in both FA and the draft.
I couldnt agree more with you on Resigning Mack, Haden and Ward.
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He got massively overpaid.
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Depends on how it's structured.
That's always the key.
If he had $12 million in guarantees over the first 4 years, and then 4th and 5th year salaries of $10 million each, then it's not too bad.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Quote:
Djhango Could you please explain to me why you feel Kruger has a "higher floor" than Avril?
Kruger 4 year Career stats: 69 Tkls 15.5 sacks
Avril 5 year : 168Tkls 39.5 sacks
Avril also started 60 games for the Lions because they had nobody at DE, whereas Kruger only started 7 games in 4 years, so sack or pressure/per snap would be a better indicator and even then it wouldn't be a fair comp since Kruger was standing up
Stats aside, I think both are obviously very good talents in their prime and both would represent a huge upgrade at SOLB for us. The higher floor comment was two-fold: for one, Kruger already played in a 3-4 his entire NFL career....it took him a while to reach the level he's at today, but he's now there and you'll know what you get. Avril otoh is a projection, although he played LB in College, but when was the last time he had to cover a TE? 5-6 years ago? You can have all the athleticism in the world, but you won't learn a feel for zone coverage overnight, you need reps and he does not have them at the NFL level, that takes time.
Secondly, just looking at the type of player I think Kruger is more of hustle guy: his best pass rush move coming into the league was a bull rush, he's always been an overachiever and thus I think he's the better team player and slightly better player against the run, even though far from good.
So, since I don't think that we'd get Avril cheaper than Kruger, I'd go with Kruger, but I don't feel very good about giving any of them 10+mil/year. Avril has the stats and will have a bigger market since both 3-4 and 4-3 teams will line up. Kruger should be slightly cheaper and has a higher floor for 3-4 teams imho
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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Quote:
ON NFL network they are all projecting Sheard to WOLB (right side). Now they talk to Lombardi enough that I am pretty sure this was in the plan combined with the fact the FA players we were supposedly interested in play on the strong side (left side Usually). Kruger and Avril
PFT also had an article a day or two ago about the Broncos were asking Dummerville to take a pay cut. They want to sign Freeney and need to clear some money. My thinking is they will be shopping Elvis and I would love him in this scheme.
Sign Avril
Sign Toler
Sign Phillips or Quin
Trade down no lower than 10 or 12
Xavier Rhodes FSU Corner. Major defensive moves. Turn Horton loose with 2 corners who excel at tight man coverage and a FS that can cover the entire field.
And still have a boatload of Cap Space and at least a 2nd rounder. (TE, OG in 2 and 3)
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#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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Well, there goes that option.
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
#gmstrong
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Another person also tied to this article is Desmond Bryant who I am becoming more and more intrigued with. If there is any truth to the Browns' intentions, I assume he would be moved to DE and expected to start. Who would be punted? My quick reaction is Rubin. He's 6'6' 310lbs and looks to have similar build to JJ Watt in the fact he looks to be really long in stature. I think we are seeing more of a shift in 3-4 DE where they're not just big-bodied gap pluggers but also legit pass rushing threats. Particularly in Horton's assumed style of attacking. I haven't seen much tape on the guy so I'll defer to someone else better judgement on him, but this is my growing suspicion on him. Hopefully, if we would sign him, he doesn't fall victim to Corey Williams Syndrome, in that we target a 4-3 DT that can't make the switch- But at least here we wouldn't lose a 2nd Rounder.  If we don't sign Bryant, I would expect future DEs in this system to be brought in with that similar style and build.
Last edited by MemphisBrownie; 03/08/13 12:44 PM.
Tackles are tackles.
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Legend
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JC Didn't see this posted,, But Hartline is off the market as well http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000...veyear-contract
#GMSTRONG
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"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Cliff Avril Open to 3-4 Switch. Cliff Avril has been a 4-3 defensive end for all five years of his professional career. He's set to hit free agency next week since there have not been significant talks with the Detroit Lions. At 6-foot-3, 260 pounds, Avril isn't the most physical end in the world. He's a pass-rush specialist. The Cleveland Browns have shown an interest, but they're converting to a 3-4 system under new defensive coordinator Ray Horton. Avril is open to the switch, he told MLive.com's Anwar Richardson. "I think I can do it. I thought I was going to be a 3-4 coming out, obviously," Avril said. "I ended up getting drafted to the Lions at the defensive end position. The weird thing is all the guys out of Purdue from the last few drafts who played end became 3-4 ends. I'm the only one out of all of those guys who played linebacker and became a defensive end. Maybe I'll join that club, if it's the case." Avril will be one of the more interesting free agents to watch. He views himself as an elite pass-rusher, but has never surpassed 11 sacks in a single season. That's why the Lions franchised him in 2012 and will let him test the market now. Avril has actually talked about approaching the numbers of Buffalo Bills defensive end Mario Williams (six years, $100 million). There's no way that happens and even Avril knows that deep down. He turned down a three-year, $30 million deal before being tagged. There's a wide gap between what Avril wants and what the Lions think the 26-year-old is worth. We'll see what the market determines. http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000...reeagent-search
Tackles are tackles.
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Hall of Famer
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Quote:
Another person also tied to this article is Desmond Bryant who I am becoming more and more intrigued with. If there is any truth to the Browns' intentions, I assume he would be moved to DE and expected to start. Who would be punted? My quick reaction is Rubin.
Why would we let go of Rubin? He's been on the team since he was a rookie, but he isn't that old, and he can play DE or NT for us? Isn't he a probowler too? I mean, he's probably the second best player on our defense after Joe Haden......
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Quote:
Another person also tied to this article is Desmond Bryant who I am becoming more and more intrigued with. If there is any truth to the Browns' intentions, I assume he would be moved to DE and expected to start. Who would be punted? My quick reaction is Rubin.
Nobody would be punted, as Winn isn't a 3down player/starter in this league. Horton wants a heavy rotation and we still need a 3-4 DE for that. Bryant would be his new Calais Campbell...Taylor-Rubin-Bryant with Winn and Hughes and maybe Kitchen rotating in...I'd be ok with that depending on the $ he gets...we still have a DL need folks. If Bryant is too rich, I'd try DeVito next...problem is, we have chosen (yet again) a bad timing to do this switch as many other teams are switching too, so it becomes a player's market, which will probably drive up the price...same applies to the pass rushers, but they're always a player's market anyway
We will see...cheap depth options at DE are T.McDaniel and McBean
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Legend
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Legend
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Quote:
Quote:
Another person also tied to this article is Desmond Bryant who I am becoming more and more intrigued with. If there is any truth to the Browns' intentions, I assume he would be moved to DE and expected to start. Who would be punted? My quick reaction is Rubin.
Why would we let go of Rubin? He's been on the team since he was a rookie, but he isn't that old, and he can play DE or NT for us? Isn't he a probowler too? I mean, he's probably the second best player on our defense after Joe Haden......
Well, we have Phil Taylor to play NT and it could come down to what we could get in trade.. So I could see it as possible. Hope not, but who knows.
If someone offers us a 2nd this year and a 2nd next or something like that, I'd think it would be worth it. I'd still hate to see it. But I think at this point, anythings possible. Short of trading Joe Thomas and Joe Haden and Probably Richardson, anything is possible.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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