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At least the Browns play tonight. Even if it is crappy unwatchable preseason football.
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Wow, Mark Reynolds DFA'd.
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saw that...guess that's what happens when you bat .215 and strike out more often than you get on base.
"It has to start somewhere
It has to start somehow
What better place than here?
What better time than now?"
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Quote:
I don't see McAllister and Kluber as 4s or 5s at all. I think that's ridiculous.
McAllister's underlying numbers are not good (xFIP of 4.49, he doesn't strike enough guys out, and he has average control).
Kluber has never had this kind of success at any level. So while he has been good this year it is unlikely to continue. Guys usually don't start succeeding at age 27 and sustain it very long.
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Masterson has an off game now and then, but he has been nothing short of outstanding this season. He goes deep in games, and averages more than a strike out per inning pitched. He is almost at a 3-1 ratio strike outs to walks. That's outstanding. He averages almost 7 innings per start. He has an ERA of 3.46. He is tied for 5th in wins in all of MLB. He is 4th in innings pitched. He is 6th in strike outs.
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He is tied for 5th in wins in all of MLB.
Wins. 
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What is it about him that makes you see him as only an "OK #2"?
Everything you just described screams #2 starter. And being a #2 starter is not a bad thing. How many true #1 guys are there in the league right now, 10? 15? (Kershaw, Wainwright, Harvey, Strasburg, Darvish, Scherzer, Felix, Fernandez, Lee, Sale, I would still place Verlander here because of his track record, and Price. That's off the top off my head, forgive me if I missed a few).
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I consider wins to be an extremely important part of being a #1 pitcher. Don't see many 6-12 "#1" pitchers.
As I said, Masterson eats innings, he averages a strike out per inning pitched, and he has an excellent ERA, Maybe we have different definitions of a #1 starter. Are there better pitchers than Masterson? Sure. Does that mean that he's not a #1? I don't think so. He's not a top 5 starter in baseball ..... but he's right there in many important categories. I think that he has proven that he can beat any Cy Young pitcher thrown against him. That's a #1 to me.
I like McAllister for a #4, borderline #3 guy. He does walk too many guys, but isn't afraid to go after anyone. I think that he'll continue to develop, and could be a #3 ... maybe as soon as next year.
As I said earlier, I also really like Kluber. He changed his grip and his fastball now explodes. He has 116 strike outs and only 26 walks in 122 innings. That's beyond solid.
I look at our young guys, and I am amazed at how well they do at not beating themselves.
Masterson: 163 IP, 3.46 ERA, 166 K, and 60 BB
Kluber: 122 IP, 3.54 ERA, 116 K and 26 BB.
Salazar: 13.2 IP. 3.29 ERA, 17 K and 2 BB
McAllister: 83 IP, 3.47 ERA, 59 K and 27 BB
While Salazar is still very young, his stuff is just explosive. We don't have a huge Major League track record to review, but his arm is just incredible. He has a plus level fastball and excellent change up. I read somewhere that he can go from a 97 MPH fastball to a sub 80 change up with exactly the same arm motion. That's impressive. I saw that in his 1st start too. He had guys screwing themselves into the ground like Bug Bunny pitching. lol He also hits his top end pitching speed right out of the chute. I heard today on a PD show that he was throwing 95 MPH in the 1st inning against the Tigers. That's powerful stuff there. If I was a MLB pitcher, I would almost try to blow out my arm so I could have Tommy John surgery. lol Seriously though. it almost seems like every pitcher who has surgery comes back stronger than before these days.
Yeah, I like our rotation, and they are young to boot. They should continue to grow and learn more about their craft. I am excited for the future.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I agree with that. Aces don't have letdowns like he did the other night in a game where you had your heart ripped out the night before, by a division foe nonetheless.
He's a really good #2 on a legitimate contending for a WS team.
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I consider wins to be an extremely important part of being a #1 pitcher. Don't see many 6-12 "#1" pitchers.
Are you kidding? You know pitcher wins is among the worst stats in sports, right? It literally tells nothing about how a player performed.
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Maybe we have different definitions of a #1 starter.
If you are saying Masterson is the the #1 of the Indians, then yes, I agree with you. If you are saying Masterson is a prototypical number one starter, then no, I don't agree with you and you are wrong.
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he has an excellent ERA
Masterson is 36th in the majors in ERA. Behind greats like Hector Santiago, Kyle Lohse, and Travis Wood.
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I think that he has proven that he can beat any Cy Young pitcher thrown against him. That's a #1 to me.
Seriously?!?! What does Masterson have do with the opposing pitcher? His teammates are the ones that have to face him. Are you saying he tries harder when he knows he's facing a good pitcher?
If that's your definition of a #1 then you're right, we don't agree at all. Because you are wrong.
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Indians DFA'ed Mark Reynolds. Link The Indians wouldn't be where they are now if it wasn't for Reynolds crazy hot start. But he has been awful lately.
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Indians DFA'ed Mark Reynolds.
Link
The Indians wouldn't be where they are now if it wasn't for Reynolds crazy hot start. But he has been awful lately.
Funny enough that he still has more RBI than Nick Swisher.
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That's because Nick Swisher doesn't have Nick Swisher batting in front of him (and Carlos Santana).
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How is it that Giambi still has a spot ??
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Quote:
While Salazar is still very young, his stuff is just explosive. We don't have a huge Major League track record to review, but his arm is just incredible. He has a plus level fastball and excellent change up. I read somewhere that he can go from a 97 MPH fastball to a sub 80 change up with exactly the same arm motion. That's impressive. I saw that in his 1st start too. He had guys screwing themselves into the ground like Bug Bunny pitching. lol He also hits his top end pitching speed right out of the chute. I heard today on a PD show that he was throwing 95 MPH in the 1st inning against the Tigers. That's powerful stuff there. If I was a MLB pitcher, I would almost try to blow out my arm so I could have Tommy John surgery. lol Seriously though. it almost seems like every pitcher who has surgery comes back stronger than before these days.
.
Salazar has an amazing fastball, i'll give you that, but his change up is anything but excellent..it never dipped sub 80, it was like 86-88 last night, thats not good enough change, and detroit teed off on it all game. He needs another breaking pitch, i think he could add a slider and it would take him to another level.
Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday. -John Wayne
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Quote:
Quote:
While Salazar is still very young, his stuff is just explosive. We don't have a huge Major League track record to review, but his arm is just incredible. He has a plus level fastball and excellent change up. I read somewhere that he can go from a 97 MPH fastball to a sub 80 change up with exactly the same arm motion. That's impressive. I saw that in his 1st start too. He had guys screwing themselves into the ground like Bug Bunny pitching. lol He also hits his top end pitching speed right out of the chute. I heard today on a PD show that he was throwing 95 MPH in the 1st inning against the Tigers. That's powerful stuff there. If I was a MLB pitcher, I would almost try to blow out my arm so I could have Tommy John surgery. lol Seriously though. it almost seems like every pitcher who has surgery comes back stronger than before these days.
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Salazar has an amazing fastball, i'll give you that, but his change up is anything but excellent..it never dipped sub 80, it was like 86-88 last night, thats not good enough change, and detroit teed off on it all game. He needs another breaking pitch, i think he could add a slider and it would take him to another level.
Take a look at his first start this year. His change-up dropped under 80 on occasion, yet he maintained the same arm motion and slot as his fastball that hit 97. It was incredible. His change-up is a quality pitch. Maybe he was off a bit yesterday ... I dunno ..... but he has a Major League level change-up. His fastball is electric, and it moves.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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So they say ! .. Well then what is Swisher there for or Rayburn or Aviles ..
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j/c
Looks like this game is over already! McAllister just doesn't have it tonight and the Tigers just can't seem to miss. What a crappy series..... Our playoff chances may have just been crushed!
#gmstrong.
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I talk up McAllister ..... and he implodes.  Ugly game tonight, for certain.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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This series should motivate Antonetti to make a few big offseason moves. He has to do everything in his power to get a cleanup hitter. We will never beat Detroit with the lineup we have in place. Even against teams like Boston, we are outmanned on offense. But I am very confident Salazar will be our ace by sometime next year. Even cynical Bill Livingston was writing that Salazar could be the next star in Cleveland. This guy has a Justin Verlander arm. Those don't come around very often. He will be a huge addition to our staff next year. Just need to find a hitter.
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I blame Perez for this whole series. And Francona. Ugh.
Need to pick up the pieces somehow.
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/Punchsmack/punch.gif) “...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
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2nd String
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Time for a players only meeting. Then come out with another 8 game win streak.
Last edited by Slimdog; 08/09/13 12:55 AM.
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Just watched the video of Raburn showing up the pitching staff.
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Well,
they play an awful Angels team this weekend, get 2 of 3 and get back on track. Detroit is going to NYY where they historically have struggled in the regular season (not necessarily the playoffs though) and if they lose 2 of 3, we get back one game.
We just have to be within 3-5 by the end of this month. September is an easy schedule, including a large number of games against division teams in which we are 24-10 (also 3 against Detroit).
Survive this month and be in striking distance and we're there. We're 1.5 out of the wild card
"It has to start somewhere
It has to start somehow
What better place than here?
What better time than now?"
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What does historically struggling have to with this season?
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The division is all but over. Detroit has whipped us every which way. Very concerned that series might have taken the wind out of their sails. They have a very legit shot at the wild card, but their holes are very obvious, don't think they have enough to get it done. See them winning 83-88 games.
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We really need to get this turned back around again. Losing 5 in a row hurts our chances at the postseason a lot. 
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Same old Tribe
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7 GB in the Central, 4 GB in the Wild Card.
Shut 'er down Virgil, she's suckin' mud.
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I'm not ready to do that yet. This team is just as likely to go win 15 in a row as they are to lose another 4 or 5 in a row. They are a textbook definition of streaky .... good and bad. lol
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Not with Kluber possibly done for the year and McAllister struggling to find the strike zone. I think Salazar can help, but I also think the Indians are concerned with his innings just a year after TJ surgery.
And then there's the offense, or should I say the lack of offense. The guys that were counted on to fill the heart of the lineup - Swisher, Cabrera, and Reynolds - are either under-performing badly, or gone.
The team made positive strides this year, but not enough to contend throughout the season.
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Yeah, probably ..... but I'm not ready to give up yet.
This team has a way of looking done, only to bounce back.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Biggest disappointment so far: Nick Swisher. I think the Indians underestimated how much it helped him to be surrounded by the likes of Jeter, Granderson, Cano, Rodriguez, Texeira, etc. The last three years with NY he averaged 27 HR and 88 RBI. This year he has 11 HR and 35 RBI, and projects to have 15 HR and 49 RBI at the end of the year. Clearly, he can be a nice piece of the offensive puzzle, but he can't be the main man. The Indians have to find their clean-up hitter this off season and, imo, he's not in the organization right now. Swisher needs to hit 5 or 6, not 2 or 4.
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I agree with you about him not being the main man. BUt
Also, of course his RBI are going to go down as a result of being in a weaker lineup. That's not his fault, but the fault of the rest of the lineup. His home runs are most likely down because he no longer plays half of his games at Yankee Stadium. The thing that is most concerning (and is probably an aberration) is that his OBP is down 20 points from his career average.
He's also lost a little bit of value because he no longer plays a corner outfield spot.
I would say the biggest disappointment is Asdrubal Cabrera. Dude can't even muster a 300 OBP.
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I'm firmly of the opinion that Swisher isn't healthy from his shoulder injury from early in the year. He's not been the same player since that injury and he was a real good player before it.
[color:"green"] "World domination has encountered a momentary setback. Please talk amongst yourselves." Get Fuzzy[/color]
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I disagree. To me the biggest disappointment, collectively, has been the bullpen. For so many guys with good track records to all implode this year is incredibly disappointing to me. The bullpen was a team strength coming into this season. Now it is probably the biggest question mark the team has, and an area that is certainly going to have to be addressed in this coming off-season.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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You can't really say that Perez and Smith imploded - Perez's meltdown vs Detroit notwithstanding. They have both been pretty much what they were last year, although Perez was on the DL. Pestano was also injured before his string of bad outings. I've said it before - the Indians should forbid their players from playing in the World tournament when it comes up next time - I think Pestano may have hurt himself there. The guy who really disappointed in the bullpen was Hagadone. I thought he might be something special - maybe he still will - but right now he can't throw strikes.
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Perez went through a point where he struggled to break 90 on the gun. He said that he wasn't hurt, but he couldn't get anyone our throwing 89 MPH fastballs. I don't know if he was hurt or not, but he definitely had problems. Same thing with Pestano ...... and Hagadone ..... and just about every other reliever they started to count on. (except for maybe Cody Allen) No matter who they started to depend on, they developed issues. It almost seemed to be contagious.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Was Perez really any good in the first place?
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Regarding Swisher having less opportunities for RBI's with the Indians weaker lineup; last year he hit .301 in 146 AB with RISP. This year, after about 2/3 of the season, he has hit .222 in 99 AB with RISP. He's tracking towards a roughly equal number of AB with RISP. I think Log might be right about his shoulder being hurt worse than we thought. I didn't discount the injury, but IIRC, he didn't even go the DL. Maybe he should have.
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In the past 4 years he has saved 115 games out of 130 opportunities. So, on average he has saved 28-29 games per season ... and has blown right around 4 per year.That's pretty solid, and about on par with most closers.
I know that people hate Perez because he creates drama. (to put it nicely) However, he has been very effective as a closer. (especially given that he has played on some pretty bad teams, and up to this year, some really bad defensive teams)
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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That is interesting and thanks for pointing it out. On the surface you would think the Yankee lineup would provide more opportunities for RBI.
I guess the bottom line is this, Swisher isn't hitting as well this year as his career averages.
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