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I don't know ... the more I read about the issues of all the top Quarterback options. The more I'm willing to just sit back and take Watkins at #4
Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
We passed on Big Ben for a receiver.
We passed on Rodgers for a receiver.
We have spent more high draft picks on receivers than any other position, and it isn't even close.
Yeah, let's do it again.
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I am not for drafting Watkins, but the more I think and read about it I think we should pass on the QB. If we do take a QB I think it should be Manziel.
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Pro Days should NEVER EVER override what a guy does in games.
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I agree.
But I was skeptical of Bridgewater before the Pro Day. I kind of talked myself into him because many people were saying he was the best. The more I read the more it sounds like Bridgewater will be falling.
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Okay. I respect that.
Of course, you know I disagree w/you about Teddy. I fear that once again we are going to miss on our franchise qb and we will continue down the same long, lonely road that we have traveled since 1999.
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Pro days dont override but they can Magnify concerns. There were concerns about his accuracy and also concerns with arm strength. After the pro day those have been magnified to the point that he is probably looking at 2nd round possibly but late first at the earliest.
I also think it magnified concerns with Bortles accuracy. I thought he had a better showing than many others but teams are backing off, although I thought he was a 2nd rounder and showed enough to move into late 2nd for me.
Manziel has a chance to lock himself into the top 10. I think Carr helped himself majorly today and will continue to climb.
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I've said before, Manziel is going to blow up his Pro Day. George Whitfield will not let him fail.
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Of course Carr will climb, just as deficient QBs such as Weeden did. Teams are almost as stupid as fans. They place way too much value on measurables rather than intangibles. They value size over intelligence. They value inflated numbers by throwing WR screens to a guy who can go through progressions. They overlook a chicken-crap QB because he looks good as opposed to a smaller qb who will stand in there and deliver the ball.
And that is precisely why you get guys like Weeds, Ponder, Gabbert, Leaf, J. Russell, etc getting drafted earlier than guys like Brady, Rodgers, Brees, and Wilson.
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Dawg Talker
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Quote:
Of course Carr will climb, just as deficient QBs such as Weeden did. Teams are almost as stupid as fans. They place way too much value on measurables rather than intangibles. They value size over intelligence. They value inflated numbers by throwing WR screens to a guy who can go through progressions. They overlook a chicken-crap QB because he looks good as opposed to a smaller qb who will stand in there and deliver the ball.
And that is precisely why you get guys like Weeds, Ponder, Gabbert, Leaf, J. Russell, etc getting drafted earlier than guys like Brady, Rodgers, Brees, and Wilson.
While you run down the street yelling to anyone and everyone that all teams are stupid if they pass on Bridgewater, you better start resigning yourself to the possibility of Garrop or Carr.
This would be a superb draft.
Bortles, Bridgewater
Fuller CB
Mathews WR
Guard
This would be a great 1st round draft, getting a potential future QB to sit.
Watkins WR
Fuller CB
Garrop
Guard
Rag on taking Watkins all you want. If we don't like a QB at 4 then he is the way to go. We need a CB opposite Haden and WEAPONS on Offense. Simple as that.
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Rag on taking Watkins all you want. If we don't like a QB at 4 then he is the way to go. We need a CB opposite Haden and WEAPONS on Offense. Simple as that.
If Robinson is there he would go along way to helping our offense.
We have "WEAPONS" on offense. We have Gordon, Cameron, and Tate. Not many teams have a Pro Bowl combo at wide receiver and tight end.
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Who died and made you the end all? Seriously?
And why does it bother you so much that I am expressing my opinion.
"Running down the street yelling..." and "Rag on..."
WTH don't you say that to the multitudes who are ragging on Teddy? Stop that stupid nonsense.
You want Watkins........fine.
You don't want Teddy........fine.
I don't care. However, I am permitted to express my opinion. Too many of you get bent out of shape if someone disagrees w/the majority. Are you really that insecure that you can't tolerate an opposing opinion?
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"There were concerns about his accuracy" Really, from who? Bridge waters accuracy is his strong suit. His ability to get to the line, read the D, and deliver an accurate ball is what he does best. Look at his completion percentage, it's like 70%. Have you really seen him play, his accuracy is friggin phenomenal. As Browns fans we have suffered through the crappiest QB stretch in the hx of the NFL. If Teddy is there at 4 we would be dumb not to take him. I will agree with you about his arm strength, but his arm isn't weak by any stretch. This guy was ranked the #1 QB and it wasn't due to arm strength, the Jamarcus Russell's, Leafs, Weedens, Derek Anderson's of the world can throw it a mile and 100mph, but they are dead from the neck up. This is where Teddy excels and why he would have been the #1 QB if he came out last year.
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Practice Squad
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I want a QB who is smart and can read a defense. Brees, Brady and P.Manning all have talent for sure but each of them know how to read a defense and have an idea of what the D is trying to do when the step up to the line.
I don't have to have the 6'6" guy with a rocket arm and all the measurements of a stereotypical QB. Just give me the smartest QB at reading defense and studying film. Any ideas of this years QBs as to who that might be? I have no idea.
Signing Steinbach - $49.5 million
Signing Lewis - $5 million
Drafting Joe Thomas and Brady Quinn - millions more
Restoring the Browns to champions - priceless.
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Quote:
I want a QB who is smart and can read a defense. Brees, Brady and P.Manning all have talent for sure but each of them know how to read a defense and have an idea of what the D is trying to do when the step up to the line.
I don't have to have the 6'6" guy with a rocket arm and all the measurements of a stereotypical QB. Just give me the smartest QB at reading defense and studying film. Any ideas of this years QBs as to who that might be? I have no idea.
Teddy Bridgewater. That and his above 70% accuracy in a pro style offense are his strongest attributes. And some of us, myself included, agree that those are the traits we most wish to see in the QB we draft.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Quote:
Who died and made you the end all? Seriously?
And why does it bother you so much that I am expressing my opinion.
"Running down the street yelling..." and "Rag on..."
WTH don't you say that to the multitudes who are ragging on Teddy? Stop that stupid nonsense.
You want Watkins........fine.
You don't want Teddy........fine.
I don't care. However, I am permitted to express my opinion. Too many of you get bent out of shape if someone disagrees w/the majority. Are you really that insecure that you can't tolerate an opposing opinion?
So are the rest of us,, you might want to keep that in mind
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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If the texans do not take a qb with the first overall pick i think they will take Garrapolo with the first pick of the 2nd round. If we dont get bortles then i would love to take Garrapolo. I know i know...he comes from a small school...but its the same small school that toney romo pled at and he broke all of his records. If we took himin the 2nd round i would be ecstatic.  
Last edited by slick; 03/22/14 12:17 PM.
" Now here you are running these dirty old streets tattoo on your neck fake gold on your teeth, got the hood here snowed but you can't fool me, we both know who you are"
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~ Legend
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To help get this back on track, it's kind of crazy to see how far Kenny Guitton has dropped.
Bumping as looking back I just see that his biggest problem at OSU was not being as athletic as Pryor or Braxton.
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A side bar about Jimmy G. his former offensive coordinator had this to say about JG's cerebral approach to the game: He said " Jimmy can diagram every offensive players assignment for every play and the situational adjustments".
One thing I really like about him is he sells pump fakes like Big Ben does. You rarely see that with college players.
I have no doubt he will be drafted in the first or second round. If he slipped to the third and the Browns took a QB at 4 I would draft him there.
If the Browns do not take a QB at four I would take him at 26 and be thrilled.
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'Browns hold private workout with Eastern Illinois quarterback Jimmy Garoppolo' http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2014/04/browns_hold_private_workout_wi.htmlBy Mary Kay Cabot, Northeast Ohio Media Group on April 04, 2014 at 3:35 PM, updated April 04, 2014 at 3:59 PM CLEVELAND, Ohio -- The Browns' pre-draft quarterback tour took them to Eastern Illinois Friday for a private workout with Jimmy Garoppolo, who's projected as a late first-rounder or early second-round pick, sources told cleveland.com. Garoppolo (6-2, 226) has impressed scouts and coaches all offseason with good showings at the East-West Shrine Game (MVP), the Senior Bowl and the NFL Scouting Combine and his Pro Day last month. In fact, Garoppolo has skyrocketed so much that ESPN's Bill Polian recently predicted on air that Garoppolo would go in the first round. "It's cool to hear that,” Garoppolo told Yahoo Sports. “My brother is getting more of a kick out of it than I am. I try not to listen too much to that stuff. They fill me in. But it’s kind of a distraction. He’s not going to be the one picking me. I try not to think about it too much.” Garoppolo is one of many quarterbacks the Browns are working out privately in anticipation of the NFL Draft May 8-10. They also put Derek Carr through the paces on Monday and Blake Bortles on Wednesday, sources told cleveland.com. They were set to also work out Teddy Bridgewater, Pitt's Tom Savage and Ball State's Keith Wenning this week, according to ESPN, and Johnny Manziel in a few weeks. By the time they're done, they will have seen most of the first- and second-tier quarterbacks in the draft, and should know which one they're taking to compete with incumbent Brian Hoyer. 49ers coach Jim Harbaugh conducted a mini-session with Garoppolo on his Pro Day and was impressed. “Well, he’s a four-year starter, for starters,” Harbaugh told Yahoo Sports' Eric Edholm. "You’ve got the two losing seasons [as a freshman and sophomore], and then they get to seven wins and then to 12. He helped them get there. “I really enjoyed watching him on tape. He’s got some fire. [He] goes out and beats San Diego State, really had Northern Illinois on the ropes. I enjoyed following him through the year. Wanted to see him in person. It all checked out really well.” Harbaugh noted that Garoppolo's release might actually be too quick at times and "you want to see him go through [the] whole throwing motion. But he can do it. He picks it up quickly. He’s got natural skill, and it’s obvious when you watch him." Garoppolo told the Chicago Daily Herald that former Browns quarterback Ty Detmer has helped him with his mechanics and in playing under center. "He worked with me for about three days, and he just broke down the game for me," Garoppolo said. "He taught me things that I really had no clue about until he explained it. Then you're like, ‘Oh, why didn't I think about that a long time ago?' Just how the fronts and the linebackers tie into the coverages, how different offensive formations dictate coverages.'' Garoppolo's claim to fame is that he shattered all of Tony Romo's passing records at Eastern Illinois. He also won the 2013 Walter Payton Award for the FCS's top quarterback after throwing for 5,050 yards and 53 touchdowns. He threw for 400-plus yards on five occasions and 300-plus 11 times. He also threw only nine interceptions in 568 attempts. (end)
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My sig says it all. I have wanted Jimmy G more than any other QB for quite some time now. Having him sit a while behind hoyer is such a perfect situation for us. He will devour Hoyers brain for everything it has and you just wait till bernie gets a chance to teach him some things about reading defenses. man oh man I would love if we take Jimmy anywhere in this draft.
You can't fix stupid but you can destroy ignorance. When you destroy ignorance you remove the justifications for evil. If you want to destroy evil then educate our people. Hate is a tool of the stupid to deal with what they can't understand.
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If he wants to learn from Bernie, what is he waiting for?
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Game tape is all important in the evaluation process.
However, when you have guys that did not play for the mega football schools that is when true talent evaluators make their pay. As Jimmy Johnson said: " it is not so much that you accumulated a lot of draft picks; you have to select good players with the picks".
The Browns are touring the quarterback circuit. I for one would love to go to those workouts. Comparing the guys one day after another. That we would be just too cool.
Garopollo could be a a guy that stands out. He has a bunch of the skills that pro coaches love to work with. His game film and numbers are good, but he did not play against the big boys. He started to grab attention at the East/West Shrine game and the Senior Bowl because he went against stiff competition and did well.
Jimmy G has visited the Ravens and the 49ers and has a bunch of scheduled workouts.
If Bridgewater is taken before the the fourth pick I would feel pretty good coming away with Watkins and Jimmy G.
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Level of competition isnt as important for a QB as it is for most positions to be honest. Most scouts have a checklist when it comes to evaluations of prospects and it is huge with QBs.
Size, arm, mobility, footwork, mechanics,, pre snap read, post snap coverage read, rolling left, rolling right, accuracy is graded to all levels of the field left, right center and short, mid, deep to each, time from snap to plant foot, time from plant foot to release for each of 3-5-7 step drops,
do they sell the playaction or bring the ball up to ear level to quick, do they pat the ball before the throw,
do they throw it away, take a sack or force it.
then they start grading each throw
Slant, screen, back shoulder throw, corner fade, deep out is a big one along with the skinny post.
Some of these guys have like a 3 page check list of things they grade them on. Level of competition is not really a prerequisite. Clutch, rivalry, game importance is pretty big though.
Often the last 3 things listed are desire to be great, leadership/team chemistry, ability to absorb and translate
its why a guy like Garoppolo goes from an unknown to such a high stature even behing small school. Who you play, just isnt as important as how you play and many just do not comprehend why scouts will be down so much on a guy that did so great at the college level.
The problem occurs when GMs or coaches take it upon themselves to ignore the red flags.
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"Size, arm, mobility, footwork, mechanics,, pre snap read, post snap coverage read, rolling left, rolling right, accuracy is graded to all levels of the field left, right center and short, mid, deep to each, time from snap to plant foot, time from plant foot to release for each of 3-5-7 step drops,
do they sell the playaction or bring the ball up to ear level to quick, do they pat the ball before the throw,
do they throw it away, take a sack or force it.
then they start grading each throw
Slant, screen, back shoulder throw, corner fade, deep out is a big one along with the skinny post. "
====================================================
I agree with the criterion of evaluation. Jimmy G. grades out well in all categories.
Guys like Flacco, Ben and Romo are all products of small schools.
However, no matter the position scouts like to see how do you fare against top level competition. It is not like playing for a small school dooms a prospect. But playing let's say in the SEC they get to see how you do against more guys who will make NFL rosters.
The Senior Bowl practices are good to watch just for that alone.
Quarterbacks to some degree are almost like pitchers in that high 90"s with movement and command you get watched. If you have the goods you get drafted.
Carr, Mettenberger and Jimmy G. all came from different conferences. Mettenberger and McCarron played in the SEC against schools competing for National titles. How much it all means as far as when they get drafted certainly not as much as the other factors.
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One thing I would add. When playing against smaller schools which are less talented, it's not just good enough to win.
In that case, you must dominate. Without that, a QB prospect would have to be highly questioned.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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My sig says it all. I have wanted Jimmy G more than any other QB for quite some time now. Having him sit a while behind hoyer is such a perfect situation for us. He will devour Hoyers brain for everything it has and you just wait till bernie gets a chance to teach him some things about reading defenses. man oh man I would love if we take Jimmy anywhere in this draft.
I agree i want jimmy g also.....but the thing is i wish we could get him in the 2nd round....but i dont see it......because i really think we need to go wr and then cb in the first round
" Now here you are running these dirty old streets tattoo on your neck fake gold on your teeth, got the hood here snowed but you can't fool me, we both know who you are"
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So having two stud WRs is more important than having a stud QB?
You guys never learn.
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I don't think anyone is saying that.
The disconnect is that you and I think Teddy can be a stud Qb in the NFL. Others disagree. So while you are Comparing 2 stud Wr's to a stud Wr and a stud Qb, others are comparing 2 stud Wr to one stud Wr and an okay Qb.
Am I perfect? No
Am I trying to be a better person?
Also no
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Quote:
I don't think anyone is saying that.
The disconnect is that you and I think Teddy can be a stud Qb in the NFL. Others disagree. So while you are Comparing 2 stud Wr's to a stud Wr and a stud Qb, others are comparing 2 stud Wr to one stud Wr and an okay Qb.
Well I'm onboard with you guys. Teddy's my stud QB as well.
But if it's someone else they feel good about, that's who I want them to go with. What I do know, is if they feel good about a QB, that's who I want to get.
As was said, I'd rather have a good QB and a Great WR than two great WRs and an okay QB. That's for sure.
Bad/Mediocre QB play really leaves a team stagnant.
I'm not sure Teddy's going to be a star, but I do think he has the ability to be a starting NFL QB for a long time. And that's something we haven't had in a long time. Stability at the QB position. We can use our 2nd 1st round pick (unless we trade that to move up) on a CB or a WR. And Sammy Watkins will probably be a star, but Hoyer just makes me nervous. It's the Matt Flynn, Matt Cassel, Kelly Holcomb thing. Just haven't seen enough of him. I'd like to have a darn good backup plan. And Teddy is probably the best. All the right intangibles, a guy that's going to work his butt off to be the best player he can be.
But as I said, I just want whoever the front office feels best about. Grabbing a 2nd rate QB in the draft sucks. We are picking at the 4 spot, and I do think these QBs look better than Geno Smith and EJ Manuel. Gotta use our opportunity when it's there. Never gonna improve without taking any chances
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I'm just not sure what people see in Garoppolo. The guy is a mediocre QB who thrives throwing short to medium passes and struggles when pushing the ball down field.
In a lot of ways, he's basically Derek Carr. The only difference is that Carr has a great arm, whereas Garoppolo's is above average.
The only guys I really like with plan B are Carr, Savage, and maybe Murray much later.
you had a good run Hank.
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I haven't seen a tremendous amount of Garappolo, but one thing that stands out immediately when I have seen him is his release, which is rifle quick. He seems to have solid short to middle accuracy and placement. It seems to me like he has some NFL level tools to work with.
I don't think that he's a day 1 starter, but I do think that he can legitimately be a developmental guy.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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"The guy is a mediocre QB who thrives throwing short to medium passes and struggles when pushing the ball down field."
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His numbers are far from mediocre. Granted the conference he played in was hardly big time but he dominated.
He has decent size with a strong upper body. He moves well in the pocket and shows good pocket awareness. Has excellent quick feet and uses that asset to position his body to throw. Natural throwing with a super quick release. Uses the pump fake really well. (Something you just do not see much in young prospects.) He throws well off the run. He makes plays when they matter most. Won the Walter Peyton Award which is a big deal. His former offensive coordinator said he can diagram every offensive players assignment on every play with situational adjustments. He has a very high football IQ. I do not think he will have any problem adjusting to playing more from under center because he has quick feet. By all accounts he is very coachable.
I read somewhere that Urban Meyer are was preparing for a game against a team that played against Eastern IL. and saw Jimmy G. for the first time and said he was the best QB prospect he had seen.
He is a guy who if coached and brought along right meaning a year or more on the bench (behind Hoyer) has the potential to be really good. He has skills that coaches love to work with.
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Quote:
I haven't seen a tremendous amount of Garappolo, but one thing that stands out immediately when I have seen him is his release, which is rifle quick. He seems to have solid short to middle accuracy and placement. It seems to me like he has some NFL level tools to work with.
I don't think that he's a day 1 starter, but I do think that he can legitimately be a developmental guy.
I know what is meant by the terminology, but 'developmental'. Can we please just understand that you NEVER go into a situation in the draft saying that a drafted person is developmental. You always think that the person you are drafting can start, Day 1. If they can't, you don't draft them.
It's all the common terminology of talking heads and nincompoops like Mel Kiper and Mike Mayock and many others like them.
If the player has skills, you work with those skills. You might help them learn or alter their mechanics a little bit to assist them to have more success, but every one of these players had better be able to play on Day 1, even start.
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Quote:
I haven't seen a tremendous amount of Garappolo, but one thing that stands out immediately when I have seen him is his release, which is rifle quick. He seems to have solid short to middle accuracy and placement. It seems to me like he has some NFL level tools to work with.
I don't think that he's a day 1 starter, but I do think that he can legitimately be a developmental guy.
In the mock I have been doing with 32 other owners, I couldn't get Manziel (Houston traded up to get him mid 1st round) or Bridgewater (Jacksonville). I ended up taking Jimmy G at the top of round 3, which is where I think he belongs.
I've done a couple of write ups on his, the game film online is grainy and almost un-watchable but he reminds me a lot of how Brian Hoyer played last year. So while Bill Polian might feel he is a 1st rounder I do not agree. I think he would be a great fit for us, to sit (and I am NOT an advocate of sitting a guy) behind Hoyer for a season.
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And this is why I hope we don't try to one-up other teams and pass on a QB we like at 4 thinking we'll get him at 26.
If there's a QB you plan on making the centerpiece of your offense, and you think there's even a possibility he gets drafted before your next pick (whether by a team that's there or from one trading up) you take him where you are.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,821
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,821 |
I agree with that. I think sometimes GMs try to think too much and end up screwing up.
In some ways, less information is better.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,545
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,545 |
I have this sneaking feeling that Carr will be our guy, and we will take him at 4.
I have no idea why, just a feeling.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,864
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,864 |
Food for thought. Every single time we have been "Linked" to someone this offseason, it has not happened.
Revis
Desean Jackson
Carr would be on that list as well.
Seems like Mr. Farmer likes mis-information.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 43,086
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 43,086 |
Don't forget Burleson or Tate... oh, wait, we signed them 
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,864
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,864 |
Quote:
Don't forget Burleson or Tate... oh, wait, we signed them
We weren't rumored to sign Burleson, he just came in, and we signed him. Tate was the same, only difference being that the old regime had been talking about him during the season.
We'll work out or already have worked out, every single top QB in this draft, yet all we hear about is how much we love Carr. I'm not buying it.
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums The Archives 2014 NFL Season NFL Draft 2014 QBs Plan B?: Carr, Mettenberger,
Garoppolo, etc
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