|
|
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,358
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,358 |
If Manziel is a boom I'll take all the rest of it.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475 Likes: 136
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475 Likes: 136 |
I'm souring on the draft the more I watch the guys we picked and normally, it's the other way around. That would actually scare me if you ever worked as a scout or even been remotely involved in an NFL draft before.
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 49,965 Likes: 352
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 49,965 Likes: 352 |
It depends on your defensive scheme and how you use your CBs.
Pettine has said that his CBs are cover only guys. They do not have run responsibility in his defense. Who cares if Gilbert, for example, cannot break down a RB and perform a form tackle, if he will never be asked to do so? He is a cover guy almost exclusively. he also has the speed and size to be an effective blitzer ...... and he has hands to intercept the ball. I do think that his technique needs refined, but he is more physically talented than any other CB in this draft. he also has the size that many teams want.
As for Desir ..... I love the kid. Is is somewhat inexperienced? Yep. Is he a track runner? Absolutely not. Watching him run out of the blocks was painful. Watching him flip his hips and run in coverage was not. He's not a track athlete. No biggie. I love the pick, because he could potentially be a "co-starter" at CB in a year or so, when Shrine leaves. (and I do not expect is to re-sign Skrine) He's quick, and he has experience in both zone and man schemes, from the video I have seen. He should fit this defense well. I love the pick.
I share your concern about Kirksey, but he was supposedly a guy who Pettine really wanted, so giving the coach his guy in the 3rd isn't the end of the world for me.
I would have gone WR in the 2nd, and would have jumped to draft Lee immediately, but the Browns went OL instead. I do think that Bitonio will be a plus level pro, but I wold have preferred a WR there. Oh well, I don't always get what I want.
I love the West pick. He reminds me a great deal of the Bus with those huge thighs. He doesn't have flat out speed, but he looks moderately elusive. I think that he'll start next year, if not this year.
The riskiest picks I see are Kirksey and Manziel. I would take the chance on Manziel every time, especially given that we picked up another 1st round pick next year just in case. Kirksey was a big question for me, but like I said, suppodely Petttine really wanted him, so give the coach a bone.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,358
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,358 |
Quote:
They do not have run responsibility in his defense. Who cares if Gilbert, for example, cannot break down a RB and perform a form tackle, if he will never be asked to do so?
That's cool. When do the Browns have to send the memo to the league that they can't run to the outside?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,313 Likes: 35
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,313 Likes: 35 |
When asked, Pettine already explained that in his defense he assigns outside run support to other defenders so that his corners' who will primarily be in man/press can focus on that main responsibility. So, Gilberts strengths as a defender mesh with the responsibilities Pettine will expect of him.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 49,965 Likes: 352
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 49,965 Likes: 352 |
Quote:
When asked, Pettine already explained that in his defense he assigns outside run support to other defenders so that his corners' who will primarily be in man/press can focus on that main responsibility. So, Gilberts strengths as a defender mesh with the responsibilities Pettine will expect of him.
Exactly.
Think of a guy like Deion Sanders. How often did he come charging up in run support? I think that we're still waiting for the 1st time. He was a "horrible tackler". However, he shut down almost every receiver he ever played.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 67,672 Likes: 1337
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 67,672 Likes: 1337 |
Quote:
That's cool. When do the Browns have to send the memo to the league that they can't run to the outside?
Not only that, but if a guy catches a 10 yard stop route, it would be nice to know your CB will be able to wrap him up and tackle him so the YAC doesn't kill you.
The fact is, CB's can't defend every pass that comes there way. A big factor to consider is what they do if someone they're covering actually catches the ball. That's a big part of a CB's game.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 67,672 Likes: 1337
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 67,672 Likes: 1337 |
That's great YTown if you think we just drafted Deion Sanders.  That's a very long way to dig back for a reference isn't it? Kinda like Fran Tarkenton?
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,358
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,358 |
While that may be their plan, the corners are still going to have to tackle. Last year the Bills' third-leading tackler was CB McKelvin
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,263
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,263 |
Geesh you guys. It's not like we drafted a CB with no arms  I'm sure they will practice all the things they need to do. Yeah, how many armless CB's do we have?
Dawginit since Jan. 24, 2000 Member #180
You can't fix yesterday but you can learn for tomorrow
#GMSTRONG
I want to do it as a Cleveland Brown because that's who I am.”
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,263
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,263 |
The Moon is blood red and the stars fell. Vers. just said that he was warming up to this pick. So take that you waskaley wabbitt
Dawginit since Jan. 24, 2000 Member #180
You can't fix yesterday but you can learn for tomorrow
#GMSTRONG
I want to do it as a Cleveland Brown because that's who I am.”
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 67,672 Likes: 1337
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 67,672 Likes: 1337 |
Quote:
Geesh you guys. It's not like we drafted a CB with no arms I'm sure they will practice all the things they need to do. Yeah, how many armless CB's do we have?
Well if all they need to do is have arms, we could have waited until the 7th round or UDFA to get them.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 16,195
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 16,195 |
Quote:
Quote:
Geesh you guys. It's not like we drafted a CB with no arms I'm sure they will practice all the things they need to do. Yeah, how many armless CB's do we have?
Well if all they need to do is have arms, we could have waited until the 7th round or UDFA to get them.
Why do you think they call it an arm y? 
#GMSTRONG
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,358
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,358 |
I don't think he is bad, I just don't think he played like a first rounder in the cotton bowl. he's got what seem to be some big holes in his game and I think there was a much better option at the position. I hope I'm wrong and he turns into a Pro Bowler.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,363
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,363 |
Run support and tackling a receiver after the catch is a different animal. I've seen nowhere that it says he's a bad tackler.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 252
2nd String
|
|
2nd String
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 252 |
Quote:
What's that tell you about the worth of tape watching and evaluating with this FO?
It tells me that you overvalue your own opinion... I have read pre and post draft analysis quite extensively and have not seen anything to substantiate your claims...
It's one thing to offer your opinion, but when it comes to statements like this... to me it renders all of your other comments invalid...
Don't get me wrong... this is a massage board and is driven by views, comments and opinions.. many good and many bad from all perspectives.. but I compare this to getting a second opinion on an intricate medical procedure from car salesman... JMHO 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 67,672 Likes: 1337
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 67,672 Likes: 1337 |
Quote:
Don't get me wrong... this is a massage board
I've been on this board from the very beginning and had no idea this was an option!
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 67,672 Likes: 1337
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 67,672 Likes: 1337 |
Quote:
Don't get me wrong... this is a massage board and is driven by views, comments and opinions.. many good and many bad from all perspectives.. but I compare this to getting a second opinion on an intricate medical procedure from car salesman... JMHO
On a serious note, while this FO has not been doing the drafting until this year, many of the, as you put it, care salesmen on this board have a better track with their second opinions on medical procedures than the experts.
I would have preferred many of the mock drafts posted on this board in years past than the ones the "experts" picked for us.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,370
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,370 |
Quote:
Quote:
Don't get me wrong... this is a massage board
I've been on this board from the very beginning and had no idea this was an option!
Browns fans are a talented group. 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 252
2nd String
|
|
2nd String
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 252 |
Quote:
Quote:
Don't get me wrong... this is a massage board and is driven by views, comments and opinions.. many good and many bad from all perspectives.. but I compare this to getting a second opinion on an intricate medical procedure from car salesman... JMHO
On a serious note, while this FO has not been doing the drafting until this year, many of the, as you put it, care salesmen on this board have a better track with their second opinions on medical procedures than the experts.
I would have preferred many of the mock drafts posted on this board in years past than the ones the "experts" picked for us.
I agree Pit.., its just when I see someone acting "holier than thou", just gets my goat... that's all...
And the car (not care ) salesman reference was made in the singular sense... not plural... 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,098 Likes: 134
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,098 Likes: 134 |
Quote:
Quote:
Don't get me wrong... this is a massage board
I've been on this board from the very beginning and had no idea this was an option!
are you saying you didn't get the memo?
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 67,672 Likes: 1337
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 67,672 Likes: 1337 |
Quote:
are you saying you didn't get the memo?
Well YEAH!
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 252
2nd String
|
|
2nd String
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 252 |
Quote:
Quote:
are you saying you didn't get the memo?
Well YEAH!
About the care salesmen?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 67,672 Likes: 1337
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 67,672 Likes: 1337 |
No, about this being a massage board!
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,098 Likes: 134
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,098 Likes: 134 |
Quote:
Quote:
are you saying you didn't get the memo?
Well YEAH!
are you going for Deep Tissue with a happy ending?
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 67,672 Likes: 1337
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 67,672 Likes: 1337 |
Quote:
Quote:
No, about this being a massage board!
Did you really have to take me out of context... or are you a closet reporter?
No, just trying to have a little fun. It was meant in a light hearted way. I certainly didn't mean it in an offensive way. We just tend to debate heavily sometimes on this board and IMO, bringing a little lighthearted fun into things helps people understand that you aren't mad or upset when you're posting.
If you took offense to it, I'm sorry. That certainly was not my intent.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 252
2nd String
|
|
2nd String
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 252 |
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
No, about this being a massage board!
Did you really have to take me out of context... or are you a closet reporter?
No, just trying to have a little fun. It was meant in a light hearted way. I certainly didn't mean it in an offensive way. We just tend to debate heavily sometimes on this board and IMO, bringing a little lighthearted fun into things helps people understand that you aren't mad or upset when you're posting.
If you took offense to it, I'm sorry. That certainly was not my intent.
GOTCHA! Actually, this place needs a little more lightheartedness... please continue!
Last edited by Lairdawg; 05/17/14 01:14 PM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 67,672 Likes: 1337
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 67,672 Likes: 1337 |
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,370
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,370 |
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
No, about this being a massage board!
Did you really have to take me out of context... or are you a closet reporter?
No, just trying to have a little fun. It was meant in a light hearted way. I certainly didn't mean it in an offensive way. We just tend to debate heavily sometimes on this board and IMO, bringing a little lighthearted fun into things helps people understand that you aren't mad or upset when you're posting.
If you took offense to it, I'm sorry. That certainly was not my intent.
I think you just wanted LairDawg to give you a massage.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 49,965 Likes: 352
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 49,965 Likes: 352 |
There is no "raving" about his tackling, but most of the big sites just say that he doesn't tackle with as much abandon as the rest of his game would indicate. Here is what CBS said about his tacking: http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1785829/justin-gilbertHe has a bit of a cover-corner mentality when it comes to run support. He flashes the competitive drive to fight through blocks and make the play but is often willing to allow teammates to make the play if they nearby. Gilbert will also lower his shoulder and lunge occasionally, missing tackles he shouldn't. NFL.com: http://www.nfl.com/draft/2014/profiles/justin-gilbert?id=2543473not as aggressive or physical in run support as you would expect for his size. Can do a better job shedding blockers. Too often lets teammates arrive first at the scene. Spent time in the doghouse as a young player. Has some growing up to do -- maintains a lockdown corner's ego, at times coasts on his natural talent and is not immune to mental errors. BOTTOM LINE The most talented cover corner in this year's draft class, Gilbert has size, speed and flexibility to blanket receivers at the next level. Also brings impact ability as a kick returner. Is capable of stepping into the starting lineup from Day 1 and playing at a high level if he adheres to a professional approach to the craft. Could stand to improve in run support. http://walterfootball.com/scoutingreport2014jgilbert.phpGilbert contributes in run defense, too, and is tough on the perimeter. He is strong in zone coverage, but there is little reason to take him out of man coverage. Gilbert could also contribute as a kick returner, but whatever team drafts him will probably use a different player to protect Gilbert from injuries. http://www.bigblueview.com/2014-nfl-draf...new-york-giantsCons - Not as physical as you'd like to see in run support http://nfl.si.com/2014/04/18/2014-nfl-draft-top-64-justin-gilbert/Effective as a tackler, but not overly eager to get involved, especially in the run game. Considering how physical he can be in man-coverage, it would be nice to see him translate that edge over to tracking ballcarriers -------------------------------------------------------------------------- As far as draft boards in January .... well, we don't know, because we don't have access to team's draft boards ....... but most mocks had Bridgewater as one of the top players in this draft, and unlikely to make it maybe to, or definitely past the Browns at 4. http://www.nfl.com/draft/2014/mock-drafts/matt-smith/175604This January NFL.com mock had Gilbert going 10th overall to the Lions. (we took him at 8th overall) It also had 3 QB going in the top 8. Back to team's boards ..... the Browns said that they put little emphasis on Pro Days and the combine, which I believe given that they attended very few key workouts, like any of the QBs, for example. Given that this was the case, I doubt that they were swayed at the last second by some amazing combine work. That would go completely against the way they seemed to work the combine.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,370
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,370 |
Quote:
That's great YTown if you think we just drafted Deion Sanders.
I thought we drafted Leon Sandcastle.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015 |
Glad you compiled all that. Saved me from doing diggin'.
Frankly, not concerned with his tackling. If any corner just happens to be an elite tackler, it's a bonus. I'm quite content if they can cover, as that's what they get paid to do. Now if the reports said he shied away from contact anywhere on the field I'd be concerned. What you laid out showed a guy who does tackle but doesn't dive into the gig like Nate Clements used to.
I've watched more recordings of the guy. He's got some very serious, elite talent. He was no reach.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,284
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,284 |
I love the talent on our defense. Our secondary will be much better than last year. Whitner is better in pass coverage than TJ and I am still a TJ fan. It's going to be a gauntlet trying to earn a spot in our secondary.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,370
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,370 |
Quote:
I've watched more recordings of the guy. He's got some very serious, elite talent. He was no reach.
After your statements about Jason Campbell, I might have to rethink things about Justin Gilbert now. He could very well be a total bust.
Just kidding.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 32,659 Likes: 673
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 32,659 Likes: 673 |
Quote:
Quote:
I've watched more recordings of the guy. He's got some very serious, elite talent. He was no reach.
After your statements about Jason Campbell, I might have to rethink things about Justin Gilbert now. He could very well be a total bust.
Just kidding.
Poor, poor Toad. Makes one little mistake in his football "gurunesslike board famedom" (had to make up words for that) and this is what he gets...
Toad I still believe in you.
But there is truth in what anarchy said. lol
Your feelings and opinions do not add up to facts.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 12,635
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 12,635 |
Thank you for this post... good info/reads!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 38,550 Likes: 813
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 38,550 Likes: 813 |
And speaking of Gilbert, what's the hold up in getting this guy signed. The players on each side of him are signed. This makes him one of two first rounders yet to sign.
It doesn't seem like our FO has been hardballing guys, so I wonder what Camp Gilbert is seeking?
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065 Likes: 1
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065 Likes: 1 |
I believe its the "offset language"
Aka, if we cut him before his contract runs out, he wants to be paid by us AND if he signs somewhere else..
I see both sides of the argument as being dumb, 1. Don't draft a guy at 8 if you think you may cut him in his first contract 2. Have more beliefs in your abilities and not assume you're going to get cut...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 12,635
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 12,635 |
Exactly the last I heard too, it's the offset language.
I don't have any concerns, we'll get him locked up and by time practice rumbles around - it'll be go time!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,398 Likes: 280
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,398 Likes: 280 |
Quote:
Exactly the last I heard too, it's the offset language.
I don't have any concerns, we'll get him locked up and by time practice rumbles around - it'll be go time!
And what is the precedent on that? Is that what most top 10 guys are getting and we are balking at it or is he asking for something unusual?
yebat' Putin
|
|
|
DawgTalkers.net
Forums The Archives 2014 NFL Season NFL Draft 2014 Browns select Justin Gilbert with
the 8th overall pick
|
|
