DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Johnny Manziel..continued...

I don't think it was cheap at all. In fact, I believe you earned every bit of it.

I make a football comment and I get "hypocritical". Nice, Vers...

Btw-----------you still haven't weighed in on Farmer's texting. You said you would wait until the league rendered its judgement. They have. He is guilty.

Are you still going to defend him?

Nothing to defend. He was determined to have broken the rules and was "sentenced". Case closed. Next...

Why is that? Dick LeBeau had been with the Steelers since 2004. Many teams have long time assistant coaches. Why is it we have to hire "inexperienced people who won't get hired away"?




It would have if Shanahan had left for an NFL HC position. But he took a lateral move just to get out of town.

Wow...

Here's an idea, why don't you guys make a "Shanny left because..." thread and argue all the crap about him there instead of IN EVERY FREAKING THREAD?

I can't be the only one getting sick of it.

I was hoping someone would start a thread asking for Shanahan's 32 points from his PowerPoint presentation.

29.) Cafeteria food here SUCKS!

Who are you to tell us what to talk about?

I'm nobody... but someone who is waiting for your biweekly suspension to come again.

Get used to it !! When the agenda driven guys sink their teeth into something then it gets brought into every thread regardless of merit .... Shanny left because the Browns/Haslam/Farmer are toxic - no-one will come and play for the Browns or work in the FO ever again while Haslam owns the team and Farmer is GM .... and by god they will keep reminding you!!

Well, my suspension was because I called a guy a liar. Of course, this was AFTER he called me a liar and I was trying to point out the truth.

Yes I do understand that, but the thread is titled Johnny Manziel, not Shanny/Heckert/Holmgren/people who just aren't associated with the team anymore. As with all the other non-Shanny related topics that have continuous Shanny discussion.

Hence why I made the suggestion of creating it's own thread, instead of consuming all the others. That's all, meant no offense.

i think dick is a rare example, because he doesnt have aspirations of headcoaching. i think a young up and comer type of guy, it his his ultimate goal to become a HC.

shanny left for what ever reason, but i am certain he would like to become a HC like his father. i dont blame him or anyone else with such ambitions, but my point is simply that unless we find someone very green (but hopefully talented), they will likely just be on there way to a HC gig.

i mean really, if you turn around the browns offense for 2 consistent years, youve gotta be a hot commodity!

I am in agreement for the most part. To me, it's not only THAT Shanny left, but HOW he left that poisoned the water for getting any OC of repute here. He quit, very publicly and loudly, then took the same job with another team. If he had waited for a job and quietly moved laterally, it wouldn't have been so embarrassing for the Browns.

Or maybe it didn't matter, maybe Flip was the guy Pet wanted all along. I like the hiring. I like the 'phoenix' imagery, that there is a new Browns emerging from the ashes the old, first time GM, HC, DC, & OC all working together to build a new team, culture and identity. Yes, there will be mistakes and growing pains. But if we stay the course, we could be looking at a winning franchise built from the ground up into something we can all be proud of. Patience...patience.

holy crap, i never even realized that, first time HC GM DC and OC, hell even owner is new.



yeah i agre how he left looked a bit embarrassing, but at the same time i think he kind of seemed like a little kid having a temper tantrum. it will be interesting to see how his career goes in atlanta. though, i imagine there it will be much easier to be content-- they have a QB which makes a hell of a lot of difference. i will say though, if they have another horrible record year, i would bet we hear grumblings from shanny once again. he doesnt seem like a guy who respects chain of command, nor hides his frustrations...

Bengals Head coaching record 2000-02 Dick LeBeau 12-33-0 .267 wp

Oh, geez.... I wish we weren't always the butt of a joke, but....

Because he failed as a HC with Cincy, and was fired.

I think there's another way to go about it.

If you have a guy for say two years, a successful guy and proven, you can have an understudy learn his system and be ready to step in when he leaves. I do see what you're saying, and I think there's a possibility your way could work.

I'm just pointing out that there's another way. A highly successful guy with a young understudy to learn. Yes, you still end up with that young guy, but he was taught the system you're running so there is stability in the system whether your top guy stays or not.

LB, here's the thing. Some try to paint Shanahan as some evil demon who wanted out so bad he simply snitched out Farmer because he wanted to leave. That Famers actions were no part of what happened.

Now I don't believe that. I don't believe Haslams issues with hires lay squarely on the shoulders of the Shanahan situation at all. I believe when you combine Haslams proven quick trigger finger for firings and compound that with the Shanahan situation, Farmers texting to the sidelines, it probably certainly isn't what one would consider the best opportunity from the outside looking in.

It's a cumulative effect. I believe anyone willing to ignore all of that isn't being very realistic.

ESPN's Chris Mortensen: Browns "90 percent" Done with Manziel

By Joe Ginley  @JoeGinley on Apr 1, 2015, 10:34p 11
Bob Donnan-USA TODAY Sports

Will Johnny get another chance? ESPN's Chris Mortensen doesn't seem to think so.

Would it be an offseason without national media members weighing in on the Browns' futility?

ESPN's Chris Mortensen became the latest expert to express his views on Johnny Manziel, Ray Farmer, and Textgate in a guest appearance on ESPN's Mike & Mike radio show on Tuesday.

Mortensen took a fairly pessimistic stance on the current state of affairs in Berea. According to the ESPN reporter, the Browns have largely moved on from Manziel, Farmer's reputation is damaged, and the first four weeks of the season could be treacherous without a general manager at the helm.

Several other prominent members of the media (looking at you, JLC) have dished out criticism of the Browns in the past year, but Mortensen's words carry considerable weight.

Mortensen began the Browns segment by talking about the club's commitment to Manziel:

"I think about 90 percent that they have moved on [from Manziel] in their own minds except that they really don't know who they're going to get when Johnny leaves rehab, which has been an extended stay — a two-month stay. He should be getting out sometime in the first week of April if they're satisfied that he's ready to go out and get into society and that whatever deep-rooted problems that he had has been addressed. OK, now he's part of your depth chart. You have Josh McCown."

The ESPN NFL Insider then delved into the Browns' fascination with Eagles quarterback Sam Bradford.

"Yes, the Browns were the team, with the second first round pick, 19th pick, that talked to the Rams about that pick in trying to acquire Sam Bradford. But there was no quarterback they could send to St. Louis in return. Nick Foles was the obvious one and Bradford is somebody that the Eagles and [head coach] Chip Kelly have Mark Sanchez as a placeholder until Sam Bradford is healthy, and so I don't think Bradford is going to be available. They would like him to sign an extension, something he wouldn't have done had he gone to Cleveland. So I don't see why Cleveland could sit there and give up a first-round draft pick for somebody who's not inclined to sign an extension. All of these things are in discussion. If we were sitting around the living room, we'd be kicking all this stuff around."

Mortensen ended his view on the Browns' quarterback situation with this interesting nugget of information:

"The bottom line is that Johnny Manziel's future with the Browns has been in question. When they were putting together half of a new offensive staff, Manziel's name barely even came up in conversation."

If Mortensen's reporting is correct, this is a telling piece of intel. If the Browns have written off Manziel as a quarterback, how far will they go to acquire one in the upcoming NFL Draft?

Speaking of the draft, Mortensen explained the NFL's decision not to take away picks from the Browns for Textgate.

Some NFL teams are reportedly frustrated that the Browns didn't receive a stiffer punishment. However, in Mortensen's eyes, the punishment was just right.

"I don't think it was lighter. [With] Ray Farmer's reputation, forever, when people look up Ray Farmer, they're going to see that he was suspended for four games ... People will say 'It's during the time when they don't do much.' In September, well, we don't know who their starting quarterback will be, what if they lose their staring quarterback? What if they lose their left tackle, Joe Thomas? What if you lose a couple of other players? You always have something that comes up that involves the general manager. Now, they're fortunate that Bill Kuharich and Ron Hill both have been in that seat before, that they can work through that. But, to me, Ray Farmer loses a month's pay, he has his reputation stained, probably forever. His text messages that went to a coach or two in the booth were deemed not to be a competitive matter, kind of like you would say, 'Why aren't we throwing deep?' Shouldn't we be playing #2?' ... I don't think it merited anything greater than this."

Mortensen brings up a valid point. An NFL general manager is less active in September, but Farmer might miss out on critical decisions during his suspensions. Also, Farmer's reputation is forever damaged. However, Farmer's image can certainly be repaired if the Browns win under his watch.

As a whole, Mortensen's words are a bit sobering. Manziel's opportunity might have already passed him by, and Farmer's transgressions might cost the team more than just $250,000.

What will the future bring for these troubled men? Only time will tell, but the upcoming NFL Draft will certainly lend some clues.

http://www.dawgsbynature.com/2015/4/1/83...ne-with-manziel

Good read. A seemingly fair and balanced article...

Nothing; there is no "book" on him. If you believe in Pettine then you go on faith with his hiring of the coaching staff...

I think Mortenson's quotes are actually very hypocritical. On one hand, he says Manziel is pretty much done here in Cleveland but goes on to say he has a chance if he comes out of rehab alright.

But with that said, I do think there is more truth to Manziel being on the outs, but I could be wrong....there are tons of rumors going around town that not only are the Browns looking to move on from Johnny completely, but that the feeling is reciprocal in the Manziel camp.

We'll see. As much as some posters think that the FO is all in on Manziel, they clearly have been looking to replace him or at a minimum look for a legitimate starter to complete and probably win. Bradford is a perfect example. Mariota might be the next attempt if they can make the deal. That's a tough one though.

Yes, he did seem to hedge his bet on Manziel. At this point, we cannot count on him being in the lineup. I don't believe anyone can make a definitive statement to that effect, one way or the other...

Some of my close friends, who was riding the Manziel bandwagon in insane high fashions, have seemingly given up on him.

Jersey sales are dead. Manziel mania is dead. Factoring how the media went from writing four Manziel articles a week to almost nothing indicates the media has given up on him and the page clicks for such a kid has diminished.

It would not surprise me, actually be shocked on the opposite, if the Browns won't extend a bit of trust, faith and hope towards him. As someone said, trading for Bradford and etc is an indicator they don't feel a starter is on this roster.

Manziel, using his own words, likely made himself a "jackass" one too many times.

I do feel the door isn't fully closed, there's a small, tiny, barely visible cracking that will take heaps of dedication, heart, effort and perhaps a ton of luck for him to reverse the general outlook that people have of him. Me personally, I'm not expecting Manziel to be on this roster after this season.

All JMO

I would say the chance is the aforementioned 10%.

Manziel is going to go down as one of the most spectacularly failed first round bust QB's in modern NFL history.

If the 90% done comment isn't true, or we are even 'half-in' on him, we need to clean house.

All of this, of course, is being said in the vacuum of any real developments. We won't know anything until 4/20 (assuming he is out of rehab, which seems very likely) when workouts start. I can't know for certain, but I am positive he has a playbook and is working out in rehab. The Browns will have 10 days before the draft to see where JFF stands and if they can count on him for 2015.

Because people on this board would rather be able to say "I was right about Johnny, you were not" than be able to say "I was wrong about Johnny, and we have a good QB now".

People on the board have their own agendas and its to be keyboard hero's and know-it-alls and would rather be right at the expense of our team then be wrong.

anyone else see the irony in that???

Yeah, I caught that while proof-reading.

The only thing a Manziel discussion at this time will accomplice is a diversion from the real problem .. Haslam and his ( joined at the hip pal ) Farmer !

Let me ask this?

Now that Manziel is a confirmed alcoholic, how does the league alcohol abuse policy effect his future shortcomings?
Is there a contract violation in which the Browns can recoup compensation when they cut him?

I'm not absolutely sure, but since his treatment was voluntary and not a result of a rules violation, I don't think it constitutes a contract violation.

I really wish at this point, that they would move 100% past JM.. The trouble is, it seems wasteful to give up after 2 starts when it's pretty clear JM was facing demons. Demons I might add are his own doing.

So for me, If there is a better alternative, go with it, if not, then what choices do the Browns have.

What if one of his "demons" is he realized he was out of his depth in the NFL? I'm not saying that is the case, but its possible he came to a point last year where, for the first time in his life, it dawned on him that he wasn't all-universe, or maybe even NFL-grade. My point is that just because Manziel went to rehab - which I applaud him for - it doesn't mean he can play in this league. Its kind of like the saying: "Injustice is relatively easy to bear; its Justice that hurts.".

I don't get it.

Hitler's birthday?

Demons that it would seem most other teams were able to see in their pre-draft screening/research checks,and pass. He's put us in a rough situation. Manziel likely to get out 4/20 is what rumors are. That gives them what, a week before the draft to see where he's at and determine if they want to wheel and deal for Mariota, if they want to use a second rounder on a Qb, a later rounder on a more project Qb, trade for another and so forth.

Even though they supposedly been in touch with him while in rehab, I doubt anyone on the staff knows what type of person they are getting back. They'll have a week to determine that and plot their course of action.

JMO