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For what it's worth, Mel Kiper gave the Brown's draft a rating of B (safe and solid). And as I said in a different thread, Kiper grades based on NEED.. he thinks we needed a WR, we didn't draft one, therefore our grade gets reduced. So a B from Kiper doesn't mean we drafted B level players, it means he would have conducted the draft differently.
yebat' Putin
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For what it's worth, Mel Kiper gave the Brown's draft a rating of B (safe and solid). And as I said in a different thread, Kiper grades based on NEED.. he thinks we needed a WR, we didn't draft one, therefore our grade gets reduced. So a B from Kiper doesn't mean we drafted B level players, it means he would have conducted the draft differently. Late round picks not making the roster could be looked at as a good thing. It means we have accrued depth along the way.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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I love the people that are mad about this draft merely because we drafted players they've never heard of. I follow a few Browns groups on Facebook and all weekend long I had to read "Fire Farmer" posts because he wasn't drafting every single wide-receiver available. Flashy receivers and players the media tells you to like don't necessarily make a team better. I understand the frustration with losing, but from top to bottom this is a pretty solid draft. We addressed a handful of weaknesses (Defensive line, pass rush, offensive line depth, Kick/Punt return) and we have a handful of projects that have potential to evolve into solid starters (The kid from Oregon whose name I'm not going to butcher, the USC tightend, Campbell and that Vince Mayle kid).
I would give this draft a very solid B+
If the 2016 draft hits, and we avoid offensive talent for the third straight year, then I might be spitting nails at Farmer.
Realistically the ONLY stinkin' way we have any chance in hell at being competitive this year in 2015, it's if we can run the football and control the line of scrimmage on both sides. Farmer and Pettine took steps in ensuring we can do that this season.
Dwayne Bowe, Brian Hartline, Tramon Williams, Randy Starks.
Danny Shelton, Cameron Erving, Nate Orchard, Xavier Cooper and Duke Johnson.
We've added 9 players that will start and or push for play time immediately (Not counting the day 3 draftees cause they're all likely backups).
The QB situation sucks, and we still need a #1 WR and TE, but other than those three spots, I think this team looks pretty damn good.
I trust Farmer. I believe that Haslam does too, and I think him and Pettine are here at least another two years (hopefully longer).
If you're butt hurt about the draft, go root for the Steelers.
Last edited by MrKelso; 05/04/15 12:20 PM.
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I love the people that are mad about this draft merely because we drafted players they've never heard of. Vocal minority.
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I love the people that are mad about this draft merely because we drafted players they've never heard of. I follow a few Browns groups on Facebook and all weekend long I had to read "Fire Farmer" posts because he wasn't drafting every single wide-receiver available. Flashy receivers and players the media tells you to like don't necessarily make a team better. I understand the frustration with losing, but from top to bottom this is a pretty solid draft. We addressed a handful of weaknesses (Defensive line, pass rush, offensive line depth, Kick/Punt return) and we have a handful of projects that have potential to evolve into solid starters (The kid from Oregon whose name I'm not going to butcher, the USC tightend, Campbell and that Vince Mayle kid).
I would give this draft a very solid B+
If the 2016 draft hits, and we avoid offensive talent for the third straight year, then I might be spitting nails at Farmer.
Realistically the ONLY stinkin' way we have any chance in hell at being competitive this year in 2015, it's if we can run the football and control the line of scrimmage on both sides. Farmer and Pettine took steps in ensuring we can do that this season.
Dwayne Bowe, Brian Hartline, Tramon Williams, Randy Starks.
Danny Shelton, Cameron Erving, Nate Orchard, Xavier Cooper and Duke Johnson.
We've added 9 players that will start and or push for play time immediately (Not counting the day 3 draftees cause they're all likely backups).
The QB situation sucks, and we still need a #1 WR and TE, but other than those three spots, I think this team looks pretty damn good.
I trust Farmer. I believe that Haslam does too, and I think him and Pettine are here at least another two years (hopefully longer).
If you're butt hurt about the draft, go root for the Steelers. Great Post!!! I agree with everything you wrote.
Romans 10:9 "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and believe in thy heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved."
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One think I did notice and I guess it shows growth..
I did not read one report, one sentence, one anything that even remotely suggested Haslam had a part in deciding these picks.
Maybe, at least he has decided to let his managers, manage their positions.
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A wise person knows whether or not to say it.
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I agree with you up to the part of TE...I think Housler can give us the pass catching aspect Cameron gave us and Barnidge and Dray made plays when presented with the opportunity (and they actually block too...lol)
But to add....I am actually offended when they say that Shelton and Erving were "safe picks". I mean yes we needed a run stuffing DT and we grabbed the best on in the draft....yes we needed a guy who could push either Schwartz or Grecco to start and can take over for Mack if needed ....so we grabbed the best C in the draft who also was the most versatile(and who many see Pro Bowls in his future). But SAFE??? was Vic Beasley a SAFE pick for the Falcons??? How about Leonard Williams for the Jets or Kevin White for the Bears??? Just because we didn't do something stupid doesn't mean the pick was SAFE....
I liked this draft...I wasn't all excited about the QB's in this draft....If we made a play for Mariota..I was OK with it but not at #2...I have to admit, I wanted to see Tennessee pass on Mariota just because it would have thrown the draft into FRENZY mode and it would be a lot of fun to watch whether we got him or not....LOL
But in looking at QB....Look at next years drafty....in the Big Ten ALONE we have 4 QUALITY QB's coming out...Hackenberg, Cook, Miller, and probably Jones.... again...that is JUST the Big Ten.....There is going to be someone available...and it looks like we will be finally built to a point where adding a rookie QB can't do too much damage nor will he get too overwhelmed as the team can do MUCH to alleviate things...
I thought I was wrong once....but I was mistaken...
What's the use of wearing your lucky rocketship underpants if nobody wants to see them????
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Good post Pete except for the Braxton Miller being a quality QB....I'd be surprised if he's drafted injury or not
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2nd String
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I love the people that are mad about this draft merely because we drafted players they've never heard of. I follow a few Browns groups on Facebook and all weekend long I had to read "Fire Farmer" posts because he wasn't drafting every single wide-receiver available. Flashy receivers and players the media tells you to like don't necessarily make a team better. I understand the frustration with losing, but from top to bottom this is a pretty solid draft. We addressed a handful of weaknesses (Defensive line, pass rush, offensive line depth, Kick/Punt return) and we have a handful of projects that have potential to evolve into solid starters (The kid from Oregon whose name I'm not going to butcher, the USC tightend, Campbell and that Vince Mayle kid).
I would give this draft a very solid B+
If the 2016 draft hits, and we avoid offensive talent for the third straight year, then I might be spitting nails at Farmer.
Realistically the ONLY stinkin' way we have any chance in hell at being competitive this year in 2015, it's if we can run the football and control the line of scrimmage on both sides. Farmer and Pettine took steps in ensuring we can do that this season.
Dwayne Bowe, Brian Hartline, Tramon Williams, Randy Starks.
Danny Shelton, Cameron Erving, Nate Orchard, Xavier Cooper and Duke Johnson.
We've added 9 players that will start and or push for play time immediately (Not counting the day 3 draftees cause they're all likely backups).
The QB situation sucks, and we still need a #1 WR and TE, but other than those three spots, I think this team looks pretty damn good.
I trust Farmer. I believe that Haslam does too, and I think him and Pettine are here at least another two years (hopefully longer).
If you're butt hurt about the draft, go root for the Steelers. Great Post!!! I agree with everything you wrote. I agree with MOST of what MrKelso wrote... Other than ONE resounding statement... "If the 2016 draft hits, and we avoid offensive talent for the third straight year, then I might be spitting nails at Farmer." I don't know how you can defend this statement... How exactly did they "avoid" offensive talent? 2014 by pick: #8 Justin Gilbert #22 Johnny Manziel, OFFENSIVE TALENT #35 Joel Bitonio, OFFENSIVE TALENT #71 Christian Kirksey #94 Terrance West OFFENSIVE TALENT 5 picks in the first three rounds, 3/5 were offensive talent 2015 by pick: #12 Danny Shelton #19 Cameron Erving, OFFENSIVE TALENT #51 Nate Orchard #77 Duke Johnson, OFFENSIVE TALENT #96 Xavier Cooper Once again, 5 picks in the first three rounds, 2/5 were offensive talent. So in the only two drafts by this regime, 50% of the first three rounds have been offensive talent, 50% defensive talent. I'm confused on the ignore part?? I was under the impression, we wanted them to take the best available players regardless of need...
Last edited by IrishDawg42; 05/04/15 02:57 PM.
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Not to take this thread too far afield...I think Braxton Miller would be wise to move to wide or slot receiver. He's not going to be drafted in the NFL as a premium QB, and is enough of an athlete to be valuable as a receiver.
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Irish, check your numbers. You highlight 2 and say 3/5 both times. I see with your point, just your numbers are off.
1. #GMstrong
2. "I'm just trying to be the best Nick I can be." ~ Nick Chubb
3. Forgive me Elf, I didn’t have faith. ~ Tulsa
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Dude. I loved the draft. I can complain about not getting a top WR in a deep WR draft, but I can't complain about who we actually drafted. He draft 4 guys in the first 3 rounds that will play from Day 1. There's no projects in that draft until you start hitting day 3.
![[Linked Image from pic18.picturetrail.com]](http://pic18.picturetrail.com/VOL905/3216203/6567769/349897772.jpg) "The Browns' defense is kicking mucho dupa."
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I like how the team picked players that you can see fit with their stated philosophy. Shelton was a ~360 lb NT flying around the field every play. I see plays like Erving driving his man nearly out the back of the end zone on a goal line running play. You can correct technique, but you can't instill effort, desire, and love of the game. These two seem like guys who play for love of the game, and not the things it can bring them.
![[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]](https://i.ibb.co/fkjZc8B/Bull-Dawg-Sig-smaller.jpg) You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
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Irish, check your numbers. You highlight 2 and say 3/5 both times. I see with your point, just your numbers are off. Haha, thanks and fixed...I am at work and tend to post quickly in between phone calls...I need to slow down
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I like that too.
I absolutely despise the "play like a Brown" mantra. It seems so silly to say something like that for a team that perennially loses double digit games every year.
But if they can stick to their plan, which is bring in high caliber, high work ethic, high intensity guys and that starts translating to the field, then I'll back of the silliness of that statement.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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"If the 2016 draft hits, and we avoid offensive talent for the third straight year, then I might be spitting nails at Farmer."
I don't know how you can defend this statement...
How exactly did they "avoid" offensive talent? None of them were a legit #1 WR.. let's just say what it is, it's not about running backs, it's not about OL, people are mad because we didn't draft a big #1 WR.. and because of that, we are likely to never win championships like teams with Dez Bryant, Calvin Johnson, Julio Jones, AJ Green, Brandon Marshall, Demaryius Thomas, Larry Fitzgerald, and Victor Cruz.
yebat' Putin
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It appears to me Farmer is waiting to retool the skill spots on the offense when he gets his FQB.
He has addressed the line ..now I'm not liking he didn't get one of the better wideouts or get a pass catching TE like Williams.
So that remains to be seen.
What he is doing is something a lot of us have wanted..he's finishing the defense.
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"If the 2016 draft hits, and we avoid offensive talent for the third straight year, then I might be spitting nails at Farmer."
I don't know how you can defend this statement...
How exactly did they "avoid" offensive talent? None of them were a legit #1 WR.. let's just say what it is, it's not about running backs, it's not about OL, people are mad because we didn't draft a big #1 WR.. and because of that, we are likely to never win championships like teams with Dez Bryant, Calvin Johnson, Julio Jones, AJ Green, Brandon Marshall, Demaryius Thomas, Larry Fitzgerald, and Victor Cruz. uhmmm .. how many championships have any of those receivers won ? 1 by the Giants in 2011 ( Cruz )
The Cleveland Browns - WE KNOW QUARTERBACKS ( Look at how many we've had ... )
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"If the 2016 draft hits, and we avoid offensive talent for the third straight year, then I might be spitting nails at Farmer."
I don't know how you can defend this statement...
How exactly did they "avoid" offensive talent? None of them were a legit #1 WR.. let's just say what it is, it's not about running backs, it's not about OL, people are mad because we didn't draft a big #1 WR.. and because of that, we are likely to never win championships like teams with Dez Bryant, Calvin Johnson, Julio Jones, AJ Green, Brandon Marshall, Demaryius Thomas, Larry Fitzgerald, and Victor Cruz. uhmmm .. how many championships have any of those receivers won ? 1 by the Giants in 2011 ( Cruz ) I took that as his point.
1. #GMstrong
2. "I'm just trying to be the best Nick I can be." ~ Nick Chubb
3. Forgive me Elf, I didn’t have faith. ~ Tulsa
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I took it as.. the Browns will never win championships with their WRs, like teams with these players do...
Bryant.. none
Johnson.. none
Jones.. none
Green.. none
Marshall.. none
Thomas.. none
Fitzgerald.. none
Cruz.. 1
Granted.. Fitzgerald and Thomas have been in the Super Bowl, but no rings. Out of the group listed.. only Cruz was on a Super Bowl winning team.
The Cleveland Browns - WE KNOW QUARTERBACKS ( Look at how many we've had ... )
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I don't look for this team to put up big numbers : so we have to move the chains and pick up first downs and keep the D as rested as possible.. RUN SLANT RUN
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Right, which if you think about it suggests having a widely recognized 'top' WR isn't the difference maker many seem to think...which I took as his point.
Last edited by W84NxtYrAgain; 05/04/15 03:57 PM.
1. #GMstrong
2. "I'm just trying to be the best Nick I can be." ~ Nick Chubb
3. Forgive me Elf, I didn’t have faith. ~ Tulsa
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If Haslam fires Pettine and/or Farmer, we are going to be an Al Davis type situation. No legitimate coaching candidate will want to coach our team and we will end up with someone like Lane Kiffin, Tom Cable, or Hue Jackson. I agree w/this. It reminds me of Farmer being so stupid that he alienated Shanny and we ended up w/an OC and QB coach that nobody wanted.
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uhmmm .. how many championships have any of those receivers won ? 1 by the Giants in 2011 ( Cruz ) I do believe that was exactly his point. Nicely done, DC.  Made me smile for sure. As I read that list of superstar names, I immediately knew what they all had in common....
"too many notes, not enough music-"
#GMStong
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I took it as.. the Browns will never win championships with their WRs, like teams with these players do...
Bryant.. none
Johnson.. none
Jones.. none
Green.. none
Marshall.. none
Thomas.. none
Fitzgerald.. none
Cruz.. 1
Granted.. Fitzgerald and Thomas have been in the Super Bowl, but no rings. Out of the group listed.. only Cruz was on a Super Bowl winning team. Man, you people are so narrow minded. You can do that w/any position. How about playoff games? Or, don't they count? Exactly how many playoff games have the Browns won since their rebirth?
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I will say this-------I did not study this draft, but I have read a few articles that have graded the draft and most seem to saying the Browns did a good job.
I'm good w/that.
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I will say this-------I did not study this draft, but I have read a few articles that have graded the draft and most seem to saying the Browns did a good job.
I'm good w/that. Hold on a sec. Vers......... runs outside...... Sure enough...the seas are boiling and the moon has turned to blood  Just ribbing ya man, keep up the good work.
Dawginit since Jan. 24, 2000 Member #180
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I will say this-------I did not study this draft, but I have read a few articles that have graded the draft and most seem to saying the Browns did a good job.
I'm good w/that. havnt even seen them play. dont know how people can say good or bad?
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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I thought I stated that I did not study the draft??? Didn't I????
I am just happy that some publications are praising the Brown's draft. What is wrong w/that?
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I thought I stated that I did not study the draft??? Didn't I????
I am just happy that some publications are praising the Brown's draft. What is wrong w/that? nothing. just a general comment. not really at you. got to see them play in the nfl before you can say good or bad. jmo.
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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I will say this-------I did not study this draft, but I have read a few articles that have graded the draft and most seem to saying the Browns did a good job.
I'm good w/that. I'm right there with you, Vers. I didn't really look into this draft very much. I couldn't recognize names after around the 10th pick (I did know who Shelton was). I think part of that was the nature of this draft, not a whole lot to get too excited about outside of that very upper crust. It took me a little while to get over taking a DT and a center in the first round. Our lines were, arguably our strongest units, and both only fell off when key injuries started happening. It seemed like Farmer and Pettine were being too reactionary to how last season ended up. The next thing I was expecting was to take a QB, specifically one that had never touched alcohol. As the reports started coming back, it put me at ease because it seems we just went BPA, pure and simple.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
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J/C ....
I was amazed at how many times I heard Mike Mayock saying "This is one of my favorite guys in this draft" about our picks.
I had no idea who some of the guys we picked were, but I could see why we took them after a little research. Will they work out? Time will tell.
I do wish that we would have taken an offensive weapon with out 2nd pick in the 1st ..... and I did not like the use of another 1st round pick on the OL. However, Erving is now a Cleveland Browns player, so I hope that he becomes a great one.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I thought I stated that I did not study the draft??? Didn't I????
I am just happy that some publications are praising the Brown's draft. What is wrong w/that? Well Vers, I am watching the draft and thinking damn, Vers has got to be loving this one. 1st pick big powerful nose tackle that while may not have the current skills of a Ngata probably has more upside. Then the 2nd pick, an offensive linemen with Tenacity and the best feet of any interior linemen. Now the rest of the drft. I knew u might hate but those first 2 picks, i thought vers is loving this. it is in the Mangini mold.
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Farmer again is showing he has no ability in gauging value or acquiring the best available prospect by position. I would think by next year, if Farmer is still the Browns GM, Haslam will have to decide if he gives Farmer total control of the draft again. I am grading this draft as a C-. The entire division out-drafted Farmer again. No one is in the position to tell definitively if Farmer has the ability to correctly select players to fulfill the needs of the team. What should be questioned is his ability to correctly identify and prioritize the needs of the team. That is a more fundamental question and the one that is of greater concern to me right now. I am pretty sure that Farmer will have a couple more years to build the team, because of the turnover that occurred in the past. This team has been too quick to change the GM, and that is part of the problem. I don't think that Farmer's position is at risk right now. Is that not a function/responsibilty of the coaching staff, not Farmer? I think it is both. Pettine and his staff have to have ideas about what positions are needed, but Farmer is the one making the selection from what I have seen. The whole discussion of BPA versus Need selection. I generally like the mantra of BPA that fits a need mantra. No need to draft a LT if you have a pro-bowler at that position. That is why a teams board will be stacked with consideration of need.
We miss you, Joe.
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Blocking those who argue to argue, eliminates the argument.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475 Likes: 136 |
Just because we didn't do something stupid doesn't mean the pick was SAFE....
SAFE in draftanese means: Not a Sexy pick, will not score touchdowns or help my Fantasy team. Will not give stats like Sacks. synonym - Sure thing to play.
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 13,882
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 13,882 |
History says that if Farmer was trying to "save his job" then he would of traded whatever Tennessee or Tampa wanted for one of the Top QBs..
The fact that they didnt gives me hope that we will get multiple years of a consistent system from top to bottom..
Very good point. And I'm glad he didn't mortgage the present and future too.
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/Punchsmack/punch.gif) “...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 12,635
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 12,635 |
I bet 100% of those commenters are eating Crow, and happily doing it lol. Watt is the best defensive player IMO. Motor never slows down, never...
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,106 Likes: 19
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,106 Likes: 19 |
The whole discussion of BPA versus Need selection. I generally like the mantra of BPA that fits a need mantra. No need to draft a LT if you have a pro-bowler at that position. That is why a teams board will be stacked with consideration of need. I greatly disagree with this statement. If I have a HOF LT and BPA on my board is a LT, I am not passing I'll find a spot. No way in heck I give up talent choosing lessor. There was reason I ranked him as such. I think Redskins made a grave mistake drafting Scherff over Leonard Williams. QB is the exception. Even there I must give considerable thought. Leonard Williams vs either Winston or Mariota takes some serious thought.
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums The Archives 2015 NFL Season The NFL Draft 2015 Farmer's Draft - Is it his last
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