DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Hoyer/McCown Debate and Scheme Fit/Cohesion

Just for the sale of debate ..... what was Hoyer's record as a starter before he came to the Browns?

Mac is a whole lot closer to being right then most of the apes on this board are.

The reason I say apes is because most of the people on this board just repeat what they read whether its the truth or not. In fact they repeat lies to the point where it becomes the truth. I don't see Mac doing that.

But his true value is he thinks for himself and presents it well. He pulls in facts and uses those facts to bolster his opinion I fail to see why you seem to be belittling him for having his own thoughts.

I guess if your not partaking in the mob, your some sort of nut job.

And the part I really don't get is you also seem to be putting him down for repeating himself when I see most of the posters on this board doing it and most of the time their repeating the lies they made up between them.

You speak well and you write well, and you seem to be able to present yourself well why wouldn't you also admire those same qualities in others.

Put me down as confused by your remarks to Mac.

I admire folks that stand for something, and think for themselves. I don't always agree with his remarks but I admire the fact that he thinks for himself, why are you devaluing that?

0-1 I think, started one game against the 49ers while in AZ

I didn't see him fleecing Houston

This implies Hoyer had some kind of leverage. I don't recall any bidding wars for Hoyer's services.

Browns no Villian no guarantee to be a Brown as we knew he was going to shop around...can't wait and be without a QB...first one popped up was a decent one things looked good similar O as Chicago (I don't know for sure) extra compensation pick. He good for the Browns. It could end up a mistake by the Browns...- you take chances with anything.

But the Browns had exclusive negotiating rights to Hoyer, and never made an honest effort to re sign him if what I read is to be believed. Which is that prior to the start of FA the Browns would sit down with Hoyer and make an offer, even at the point of having an interest in McCown they didn't try to do a deal with Hoyer and I find that queer as hell. But then again I think Hoyer is worlds better then McCown.

Brian Hoyer's salary negotiations could use Andy Dalton's contract as a model and Browns have been given a gift: National Perspective

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2014/11/brian_hoyer_will_look_to_benga.html

Put me down as confused by your remarks to Mac.

I admire folks that stand for something, and think for themselves. I don't always agree with his remarks but I admire the fact that he thinks for himself, why are you devaluing that?

The reason I say apes is because most of the people on this board just repeat what they read whether its the truth or not. In fact they repeat lies to the point where it becomes the truth. I don't see Mac doing that.

I guess if your not partaking in the mob, your some sort of nut job.

You speak well and you write well, and you seem to be able to present yourself well why wouldn't you also admire those same qualities in others.

Brian Hoyer's salary negotiations could use Andy Dalton's contract as a model and Browns have been given a gift: National Perspective

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2014/11/brian_hoyer_will_look_to_benga.html

I get your point but if I take your POV I must vilify Hoyer and I don't know who the villain is, but you seem convinced you do and it isn't the FO.

I don't think the Browns ever put a formal offer on the table to Hoyer other than the one last summer...



Hoyer made rumblings late in the season that he didn't really want to be here in this constant battle with Manziel

Just that it was out there. And in a lot of places it was out there. Could it be incorrect? Yes it could. Does your assertion mean it isn't correct? I mean you said anyone who helped spread that was spreading such speculation was helping spread a lie.

We don't know that it's a lie either.

I actually believe Vambo's post under mine shows that the Browns did approach Hoyer about negotiating and it was Hoyers camp who delayed it. At that point, the Browns had no way of knowing what Hoyer wanted or if he would sign.

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Browns coach Mike Pettine and general manager Ray Farmer each called Brian Hoyer on Friday to inform him that they were signing 12-year veteran Josh McCown.

They didn't say it was goodbye, but they didn't have to.

Hoyer likely knew that at hello.

The Browns' agreement with McCown, 35, on a three-year deal Friday virtually guarantees Hoyer, the hometown favorite, will be moving on as soon as he hits the free agent market on March 10.

Teams can begin talking to the agents of unrestricted free agents on March 7 and wrap up deals on the 10th. Hoyer's agent's phone is likely to ring early and often on the 7th with so many teams looking for quarterbacks and so few good ones available.

McCown's deal, on the other hand, is worth an average of roughly $5 million a year, meaning the Browns are viewing him as a likely starter in the event Johnny Manziel can't cut it coming out of rehab or they don't land a top rookie such as Oregon's Marcus Mariota.

Hoyer figured he was going to meet face-to-face with Farmer before the start of free agency, but the meeting never took place. It seems the two got their signals crossed, with Hoyer waiting for a call from Farmer, and Farmer expecting Hoyer to stop into his office in Berea.

"I know Ray had texted me about meeting,'' Hoyer said on Feb. 7. "That hasn't gone anywhere to this point. I'm sure he has other things on his plate. But hopefully I get a chance to do that. I'd like to sit down and talk to him.''

In addition, Hoyer's agent, Joe Linta, never met with Farmer at the NFL combine, which he anticipated might happen. Instead, the Browns laid the groundwork in Indianapolis for the signing of McCown, who's gone 17-32 as a starter in his 12-year career.

The major difference between McCown and Hoyer is McCown has stated publicly on several occasions since the end of last season that he's willing to mentor any young quarterbacks he lands with. Hoyer, on the other hand, has stated emphatically he wants to start, and that he wasn't going to be content backing up Manziel.

"I've proven that I can win in this league as a starting quarterback,'' Hoyer said in the interview Feb. 7. "I feel like 16 starts, I've shown that I can be a winning quarterback in this league. Especially at this point in my career, I want to go somewhere, whether it's here or wherever it might be, that I'm going to be able to have a chance to be on the field.''

Besides, it became clear as the off-season went along that Hoyer felt Farmer wasn't in his corner. He admitted that he wanted to know the outcome of Farmer's texting controversy before making his decision on whether or not to return and showed support for former offensive coordinator Kyle Shanahan, who asked out of the last two years of his contract, and quarterbacks coach Dowell Loggains, who was fired.

"What happened at the end of the season speaks for itself with Kyle and Dowell,'' he said. "I mean, you don't just leave a job to leave. So to say that I was unaware I think I'd be lying to you, but to the extent, I had no idea. Like I said, I'm just as interested as all of you to see what happens.''

But it appears Hoyer won't need to know the outcome of Text-gate before knowing his fate. If the Browns do offer him a contract -- which seems unlikely at this point -- it would be for backup money, and he won't take it. Several NFL teams, including the Bills, are looking for quarterbacks to compete for their starting jobs, and Hoyer will likely have some attractive opportunities.

His old Patriots offensive coordinator, Bill O'Brien, is in the market for a quarterback in Houston, although he touted Ryan Mallett at the NFL combine.

Even though Hoyer became friends with Manziel, he's not going to be content to sit behind him, and will benefit from a fresh start. Manziel Mania was a lot for him to deal with this season, and it promises to be more of the same in 2016 if Manziel can adhere to his rehab aftercare program and challenge for the starting job.

But of course, that won't be easy, and the Browns are prepared to start McCown in the event Manziel isn't ready. Even if they trade up and land Mariota, he might not start right away.

The Browns might also sign another veteran in free agency, but it's not likely to be Hoyer.

Just before Hoyer left the locker room on getaway day after the season, he slipped his nameplate out from the slot above his locker and tucked it into his bag.

It looks like he'll be grateful he did so.

He had some very nice moments, but he's a 30 year old backup with a below average NFL arm.

Brian Hoyer's Agent: Browns Had Called to Re-Sign QB About a Month Ago Mar 9, 2015, 1:23p


NFL agent Joe Linta, who represents quarterback Brian Hoyer, was a guest on WEIR Sports a couple of days ago to talk about his client and a couple of other things related to the league. Thanks to Brent Sobleski (follow him on Twitter) for making us aware of the interview and for requesting that the segment be published online.

You can listen to the interview below, or read the parts related to Hoyer that I transcribed.

The most interesting part is the fact that the Cleveland Browns actually called Linta a month ago with the intentions of re-signing Hoyer, prior to the hiring of the team's new offensive coordinator.

Hoyer's camp decided to wait, but things broke down somewhere along the way, whether it was the hiring of John DeFilippo, or Ray Farmer preferring to go a different direction when Josh McCown hit the open market.

The piece Vambo offered up has no link which usually means its from a rumor sight,

The mooks, or apes as you call them, have taken over. It's a shame.

That was mostly a good post except for this part.

How can you talk about rules and the intelligence of the board then defend someone who calls other posters apes?

How can you talk about rules and the intelligence of the board then defend someone who calls other posters apes?

Thanks BTTB just remember this is from Hoyer mostly after the Browns went to another direction. I'm sure the facts are correct but the timing is not chronicled except between Feb 2nd where he text with Farmer to meet and we never did - btw did it state that Farmer agreed to meet and did not. But possibly it soured with the as was said not towing the Browns line. If he was a 3 year starter for us I sort of can but he had the bad ending and lost his job...whether he was justified to have a lack of respect for Farmer or not...point is this is the guy who is going to want you on the team or not. I can see how Farmer just decided to make it a clean sweep - You don't have to agree but any lingering animosity would not be good. And its not like Hoyer left us as the Starter...he was demoted of that position. Did he want to be here...or did he not. There could be made a case for both. We just moved on and Hoyer just wasn't that great to hold onto I guess.

jmho

Besides, it became clear as the off-season went along that Hoyer felt Farmer wasn't in his corner. He admitted that he wanted to know the outcome of Farmer's texting controversy before making his decision on whether or not to return and showed support for former offensive coordinator Kyle Shanahan, who asked out of the last two years of his contract, and quarterbacks coach Dowell Loggains, who was fired.

"What happened at the end of the season speaks for itself with Kyle and Dowell,'' he said. "I mean, you don't just leave a job to leave. So to say that I was unaware I think I'd be lying to you, but to the extent, I had no idea. Like I said, I'm just as interested as all of you to see what happens.''

That was mostly a good post except for this part.

How can you talk about rules and the intelligence of the board then defend someone who calls other posters apes?

Yes, yes that's right. So anyway, back to my story. So there I was in Teaquano and this guy comes up to me and says, "How'd you like to be in show business, and that's how I met Dicky Vittenburger. Horrible agent but a beautiful man.

Question: "The Browns went out and signed Josh McCown. What was your reaction, and did you ever meet or sit down with the organization to discuss any hard numbers over Brian?"

Linta: "They had called me to re-sign him about a month ago, before they had hired Flip, the OC (offensive coordinator). I had suggested, 'Before we get too far down the road with this, let's give Brian a chance to meet with Flip and meet with Pettine, and then sit down with Ray [Farmer]. The numbers guys agreed with that. Brian did have a chance to meet with
Pettine and Flip, but that meeting with Farmer never took place. But, he knows exactly how the coaches feel about him."

Question: "When you look at the Browns' situation, is there a feeling that they never gave him the full support to be successful in Cleveland?"

Linta: "I don't know if I would say the full support, but he knew there was an elephant in the room, so-to-speak. When you draft a quarterback in the first round, whether his name is Manziel or anything else, there's going to be that pressure to get that guy on the field at some point. Brian also knew he wasn't afraid of any of the rookie quarterbacks coming in and felt he would have beaten anybody out. Brian's a really confident guy, and as I predicted [last May], he did win the job and led them to a playoff run to the point where they were 7-6, and I think everybody in Cleveland would've signed up for the chance to be in the playoff hunt at 7-6."

Question: "So there was no ultimatum that either he start, or he's going somewhere else?"

Linta: "No, that was someone with an agenda putting that in the media, that's ridiculous."

Question: "What are the main priorities for Hoyer looking forward?"

Linta: "An opportunity to start. He knows that he's a quality starter in the league. He doesn't have to be validated now. Everybody that knows football knows, he may not be in the top three or five, but he's a quality starter who is the only quarterback in the last 20 years for the Browns whose had a winning record. He knows he's a quality starter, so he's looking for an opportunity to compete. He doesn't expect anything to be handed to him, so that's going to be first and foremost. Secondary is the ability for him to get along with the coach or the offensive coordinator more specifically."

The Browns have expressed interest in resigning quarterback Brian Hoyer, his agent told ESPN.com Thursday.
"We've left the door open both ways," agent Joe Linta said.

Hoyer is expected to meet with general manager Ray Farmer and new offensive coordinator John DeFilippo in the coming weeks, according to the report. The quarterback had contract extension talks with the team fall through last summer, and negotiations were not picked up during the 2014 season. If Hoyer, who went 7-6 as the Browns starter, were to return in 2015, he would likely compete with second-year quarterback Johnny Manziel for the starting role.

Brian Hoyer could be back in Cleveland next season. The Browns have reached out to the veteran quarterback about a new contract, Hoyer's agent told Ohio.com.

"We never got to the numbers part," the agent, Joe Linta, said on Saturday. "They called and said they were interested in bringing him back."

Hoyer, who started 13 games for Cleveland in 2014, is scheduled to become a free agent on March 10. He has repeatedly said he would like to return to the Browns, but his decision will hinge on whether the team is willing to give him a shot to compete with Johnny Manziel for the starting job.

Johnny Football

Johnny Manziel's rookie year was a trainwreck

Jeff Gray

"I think the only thing that would make him not [want to] come back is if they said Manziel or whoever we take in the draft or whoever we sign in free agency is going to be the starter and you will only be the backup," Linta said. "I think that would probably drive him away a little bit.

"If Pettine said, ‘Hey, it's going to be an open competition again between you and Johnny,' great, let's go. ... [Hoyer] wants to play. The kid wants to have an opportunity to compete and play."

Given Manziel's poor play on the field and repeated issues off of it, the Browns are far from committed to the 2014 first-rounder. A report published by ESPN on Friday revealed that Manziel's rookie season was marked by immaturity and unpreparedness and team owner Jimmy Haslam said earlier this week that he's unsure whether next season's starter is currently on the roster.

OK, let's look at this logically:

From that point of view it was pretty dang obvious to everyone, obvious to everyone, obvious to everyone, that we weren't going to be able to upgrade our QB situation by much if at all.

The FO did everything they could do other than re-signing Hoyer who saw himself as sitting in the catbird seat and to some extent I deem that as his downfall in regards to re-signing with the Browns. There are many versions however.