Is Cleveland Browns cornerback Joe Haden overrated?

by Chris Fedor, Northeast Ohio Media Group
September 15, 2015 at 11:32 AM

(There's a video in there I don't know how to share)

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- While numerous players struggled on Sunday for the Browns, cornerback Joe Haden was the primary target of criticism.

He was burned repeatedly by the bigger, more physical Brandon Marshall, who finished with six catches for 62 yards, including a leaping touchdown grab over Haden in the third quarter.

On the day, the Browns secondary, which has spent the off-season making bold proclamations, allowed 179 yards through the air and two TD's.

Is Haden, a two-time Pro Bowl cornerback, overrated or did he just have a bad day?

Michael Reghi, Bud Shaw and I debated that as part of our Monday morning Browns show. Check out the video above. We'll have more videos coming today at cleveland.com/browns.

When it rains for Joe, it pours. I feel like he really has a hard time overcoming adversity and showing up in the clutch. Great guy, and he's solid most of the time. Probably not a better guy in the league at covering AJ Green, but when it's all on the line, he's not my guy.

As of this very moment in the season, Joe is getting a C- and IMO, that's with lots of generosity...

Jimmy O'Neil needs to go away from the game plan when it's not working. Whoever was on Marshall, should have had help at times. We switched up people covering him, all with the same result. Sometimes you can't just go majority man press, especially when you're being torched. Gotta make adjustments, I didn't see any but I killed the game middle of the third.

Haden is a little overrated. He also had a bad day.

I say he's overrated.

But that doesn't mean BAD.

He's always been grabby, usually been overrated, played out of his mind last year, got beat like a drum on Sunday. He's athletic, has skill, competitive fire and a decent work ethic. I expect him to bounce back after he completes the next few weeks of training camp.

I think Haden is one of the top 7 CBs in the league he just had an unlucky day going up against one of the league's better WRs. A couple of those catches Haden actually had good coverage on but Marshall just made very good catches, plus that out of bounds catch Marshall made should have been ruled incomplete.

He's better against bigger WRs (usually) because he can get away with pushing and grabbing easier..

He gets beat by the smaller guys, like an Antonio Brown, because he doesn't have great speed..

He's very good.

He's also really good at giving up one big play late in the 4th quarter of a close game, usually because he gets caught looking in the backfield and thinks he's faster than he is..

Joe always seems to have at least 1 game every year that he doesn't do so well. I'm hoping he'll bounce back.

Some of those passes where just perfectly placed, that I'm not sure any CB would be able to defend, especially against someone like Brandon Marshal.

I can't blame any cb when there is no pass rush. If a QB has time to throw the ball, they will beat any CB even all pro CBs.

While we're on this topic I found this article interesting.

http://www.scout.com/nfl/jets/story/1584848-jets-buster-skrine-compares-revis-joe-haden

Yeah this is not spoken on too much, but Ryan delivered up some very crisp passes. Hard enough dealing with someone bigger than you height wise, but you factor in well placed balls and it gets outta hand. This is why I would've liked to have seen some safety help on Marshall against the Jets.

OVERRATED !

joe seems to have a few REALLY bad games each year. It seems like he's either very good or below average. I think he's a very emotional player and confidence is a big key to his success

As I said in a different thread, I don't think he had a good game... I think it was very noticeable because our whole defense couldn't stop the Jets and we needed somebody to make a play... hoping Joe would but he didn't...

As far as him getting torched or beat like a drum... 21 guys had the same or more catches than Marshall... 35 guys had the same or more yards... and a dozen guys had more receiving touchdowns....

If we played the Steelers and Antonio Brown had 6 catches for 65 yards and TD and we won, people would be saying it was a pretty respectable effort by Haden...

That's why I say Revis is the best. He really doesn't even look all that athletic ... he actually looks a little puffy ... but he's a super technician. He plays man to man better than anyone I've seen in a long time.

I think when Joe is good Joe, he's the second best corner in the league. But I agree with D4Life, Joe's confidence seems to wane. When he's going good, he's great. When he starts getting beat a little, the wheels fall off.

Mr. Overreactive Fan would say things like "overrated" I like to think he just had a bad game. Last year he started slow but ended as one of the best in the NFL. Lets not go crazy and try to convince ourselves that Joe isn't one of the best when he actually is.

Here's the flip side on the subject: Maybe, just maybe, Brandon Marshall had a great game!

And I know I've never seen Fitzpatrick throw the ball that consistently well in the times I've watched him.

I think Fitzy surprised a lot of us on Sunday. I would have rather them played Geno over him. Dang you Enemkpali!

I agree with this 100%.

You can't give a QB all day in the pocket and blame the CB's

Marshall had 26 receiving yards in the first half.

...said he was overrated for years, even when he is able to mask his stimulant use.

I think Haden is in a league of his own when compared to our other 1st round corner Justin Gilbert...Haden is far from our problem...Blame goes to our coaching and management and constantly putting an inferior product together (drafting, assembly of coordinators/coaches, Free agency, GMs, switching of schemes yearly, etc)

I posted it on Facebook last year, and I posted it again Sunday.


Joe Haden is the single most overrated player in the entire National Football League.

That's not to say he's terrible, he's an average corner, but not worth they hype he gets, at all.

Pro-Bowl Caliber ... Everyone can have a bad game, if he picks Mariota a couple times this week you will all love him again

He's been to two Pro Bowls in four seasons, so his peers think he's pretty damn good.hes one of the best corners in football.

That's it in a nutshell.

This is not true.

That distinction belongs to Patrick Peterson.

If you want to put Haden second, I'm fine with that, but the love that Peterson gets is baffling.

Rated "Highly".

Not part of the problem, he's part of our solution. With the dearth of good top quality defensive back play since the return I got no issues with Joe getting high praise.

We got quite a few other folks to fix before we get to the likes of Haden. I'm glad he's a Brown.

He's a top five CB.

Top 5 CB that had a bad game sunday.. I wouldn't read much more that that into it.

He's always had detractors here. To see his worth, and to hear them really bleat, ask this: if the Browns let him go, how would you feel to see him line up for one of our divisional rivals? People lost their minds when Big Phil visited the Steelers......

Don't care where you posted it, it's wrong

Wow...tough crowd.

1. Marshall is one of the most athletic WRs out there.

2. Joe Haden has done well in the past with Tall WRs.

3. Haden had been nursing a Hammy for most of Camp/Preseason.

4. As Skrine noted Haden's primary asset is his Athletic ability. I thought he didn't quite have the same Explosive vertical leap I've seen from him in the past.

5. I don't unerstand some writer's/fans definition of Burned. Cromartie was burned by Benjamin...that is my definition of burnt. Haden was there with his man but when it came time to leap and explode he was beat every most times by Marshall...and not by much. It was a match up that normally Haden does well with. Sunday he just seemed to be a dollar short. But I didn't see a wide open burnt. I saw a fade route with a well place ball and one of the most athletic explosive WR go up and get it.

6. Before anyone excuses me of being an apologist. I am very real with what I see. I don't mess with that its not opinion it is what I SEE. Point Blank Haden was in position to battle. He lost just about every Battle this week.

7. Either he has reached a stage in career where he just doesn't have it physically...or he was just a little shy of 100% health and the hammy is all about explosion/vertical leap. I think its the latter. Some of you guys are to quick to throw a player a good player Under the Bus.

jmho

who was mccown throwing to at the bears in 2013? hmm.....

Hey I agreed with Pit who convinced me earlier in the year we needed some size for the Red Zone.

But personally I have always been wowed by Marshall - I think he is the best and he seems to have gotten his head together which was the only negative in the past. Shame we had too many head case problems to risk another.

He was one WR when guys would say got to get that guy...I would not have minded one bit. Go look at his career. In my eyes he is tops.

Getting somewhat off-topic here, but Mitchell Schwartz draws more than his fair share of criticism as well. But that is the subject for another thread...

The thing with Marshall isn't just his 6-4 height or his leaping ability, he has to have the longest arms in the league. His arms look 4ft long. On any given fade pattern in the end zone, if the pass is well thrown, he is going to beat most CBs 10 times out of 10 - not just Joe Haden. Which may be why Joe had such trouble with Marshall, but always seems to handle AJ Green - the two receivers are very comparable; their respective QBs are the difference. I know Fitzpatrick isn't highly regarded by a lot of posters, but he threw some beautiful balls last Sunday, right where they needed to be thrown. You couldn't say the same about Andy Dalton the times we faced him.

this. Marshall is no bum.

/thread

I see a pattern with Joe, to me, it seems, and I may be mistaken, but it seems every season his first game or two are not so great. He starts the year slow. He takes some flack and then lights it up. Like was posted earlier, Its hard enough covering a player like Marshall, but add in some of those perfectly placed passes and it doesnt matter who the CB is.

I think this coming sunday Joe will look a lot better. He is so competitive, I am sure he is pretty ticked that he got beaten so soundly. I would not say he is overrated, he is deserving of the term lock down corner. He usually shuts down the opposing teams best receiver, even if they are named Green or megatron.

just my two cents worth

I like Joe. I do think he is one of the best DB's in the game. His bad games are bad, just like everyone else's. Talib is considered one the better DB's too and do recall Josh eating him up, so they all have bad games. What makes Joe's bad games more glaring is that we lose and other guys that have bad games, well, their teams find ways to overcome and win. Winning forgives a lot of mistakes.

^^ This

We seem to have everyone have a bad game on the same day. Sadly even seems week after week.

j/c

Joe is fine. He's been battling a hip/hamstring injury going into the game. Wasn't he questionable/probable on the injury report?

Marshall is a badass. But 62 yds and a TD is not beating the hell out of anyone.

Way too much over reacting on here going both directions.

j/c:



T. Williams = Tramon Williams, FYI.

https://twitter.com/PFF/status/647413730125463552

I think Williams has been playing well for us. Thus far, I'd even go as far to say he provides more for us than Buster did. Seems like he's another leader in the locker room too!

Williams has been our best corner

Speaking of Williams, I would LOVE to hear him compare Browns camp and Packers camp . . .

I would too, but I don't think he would ever make a public statement. He has been a fantastic fill in opposite of Joe.

Yeah, he's a true professional. Might be able to ask him on social media after he retires though

as a DB he probably prefers Browns camp. I mean, who would YOU rather go up against ... Aaron Rodgers or Josh McCown?!

I feel Joe Hayden is a good NFL player, not a great one. Cornerback is one of the toughest positions to play in professional sports when you consider you must defend a superior athlete on every play. I would rate Joe a 7 on a scale of 10.

not smart for me to answer this question right now

Me either. Opinion is lowered at this time.

Haden has been bad to start the season. He is still a good player though. He was always overpaid.

He's a notoriously slow starter...

I'm not sure why.

He always seems to play his best football when the team is playing poorly. (at the end of the year).

I hope he turns it around though, but right now he's certainly not a top 5 CB...

Haden seemed to play his best when he was amped up on Adderall.

He's a reactive player, not an instinctive player, who plays with zero technique. I'm not a professional so take that with a grain of salt, but watch Revis play and compare that to how Joe plays, and I think you'll see what I'm talking about.

My impression is he works very little on his craft. And if is working on his craft, he's working on the wrong things.

Please,
everyone here is asking if Haden is OK, but won't say anything about the lack of a pass rush?? How many sacks or even QB hurries does our front 7 have?? You cannot cover a receiver all day with no pass rush!!

The lack of a pass rush is a huge problem.

Haden is also overrated.

The two do not have to be intertwined.

Also, Whitner is one of the worst safeties I've ever seen right now.

Slowest DB in the league most likely

Rishuz,
A pass rush and the amount of time you can to cover someone are ALWAYS INTERTWINED!! Especially when we are playing pure man-to-man with only single safety help over the top!. Lack of pass rush gives the receivers more time to get open!

Receivers don't need a lot of time to get open on Haden. That's what I'm saying.

Teams actually pick on the guy and he's supposed to be one of the best.

Just curious, did you get this after reading Skrine's comments the other week? It's very similar to what he stated.

Joe isn't nearly as athletic and he can't use it to make up for the fact that he doesn't have any technique at all, slow hips, gets beat in bump coverage, falls for the double move constant..Joe is overrated because he's a nice guy, but he's not even top 10

and he starts slow

I think it depends on who his coach is. Under Horton he played at a very high level. Under Oneil he seems lost. Of course so does the entire defense. Mingo is a bust. We have no linebacking to speak of. ZERO pass rush today. Hard to play corner on an NPD. Two games now we've had zero sacks. We got a bunch last week and we won. Coincidence? I think not. Every QB in the league will beat our ass if we don't get in their face.

I don't think these guys know what they want to do on Defense. We run a base 4-3 a lot. Yet we didn't bother bringing in any 4-3 centric defensive ends.... We let Sheard walk.... I really don't get what they are trying to do on D. Almost looks like they are determined to seldom if ever rush more than 4. Well, that can be done IF you have a BAD ASS 4 man line. But you better have some stud DE's. Guys that will get you double digit sacks. And we don't have any of those guys. Kruger playing with his hand down does not make him Deacon Jones.

Question on this. Is Haden in good position most of the time and is just beat by better throws [or height difference] or is he flat out beat due to being out of position? Only 1 of these can be fixed...

I think his reputation kept QBs from looking his way, but they've figured him out. He's good, not great. He's not quick or fast enough to contain speedy/shifty receivers, and he's very susceptible to the big play...especially in the 4th quarter...constantly losing his balance or biting on the double move.

Just clicking, not replying to you.

I said this on a thread in the Gameday forum. If you took someone who didn't know the players and had them watch Haden v Cooper, more often than not they would guess Joe was the rookie.

Joe is playing like a bottom end corner. He's quickly becoming the goto corner when teams need yards or to convert 3rd down.

He just cannot handle elite WRs. Against Raiders, I think Jimmy scraped his entire game plan because of Joe's inability to cover. We were a zone team mostly.

Iove Haden and all, but damn he's playing like crap and getting paid like a king for it.

He is a good CB. Brandon overpowers a lot of CB's. He has always had problems covering shifty or super agile receivers. It's his one major weakness.

Yup. The big striders has always been his bread-n-butter. The quick shifty ones lose him (and most everyone) too easily and he has to play catch-up.

I would have thought that we would have tried to put him on one of their other guys, but it seems like this young WR they have is just going to abuse most DB's.

Amari is going to be one of the greats at WR. His hips are so fluid it's just sick.

Yep, Antonio Brown come to mind?

last year it took him 5 games to get going.

Can we add missing tackles to the list. No jam, and he is falling and slipping more than I care to see.

Certainly needs to improve. Rush would help mightily.

Hard to fault a guy for slipping.

Technique... Haden has loosened his technique to make up for not being able to jam or stall, in any way, a WR coming off the line. I'm not a Pro or a coach, just opinion here, but I thought this was why Haden is so good at defending AJ Green, because AJ hates being jammed and has a hard time recovering to run his route.

Joe getting beat up at the line this season, and looks like a high schooler trying to recover. All JMO.

The play I was thinking about was when Cooper caught a ball and then Haden whiffed on the tackle (because of a slip) that allowed many more yards.

Oh I thought we was talking about his season thus far as a whole and not a specific play. My apologies....

He's slipped more than once.

People slip, it happens. By the same token, on a dry field (your OWN field), quite often a slip is more because he was not set or balanced or prepared to make the move he had to make... which is a technique issue.

Joe Haden is the most overrated CB in the NFL. The same could be said for our defense as a whole before the season started. Don't believe me just go read some of their preseason quotes. Now they are rated just right-BAD.

He didn't play because of a "hand?" Really?

He's a corner back. And he doesn't play because of a hand? McCown hurt his hand and he played..........and he's a freaking qb.

Haden is part of the problem w/this team. Loser mentality.

I think we are paying him a ton of money for the next 3 years as well...Maybe he is taking a lead from Bowe...ugh

I agree with this.

We all know that the difference between 2 and 2 and 1 and 3 is HUGE!!!

And he sits out w/a hand injury. He's not a qb. He's not a WR. He's not even a RB. He's a freaking corner.

He was inactive due to "ribs/finger". cbssports

If it was ribs......then, I take back what I said.

I saw on the screen that he was inactive due to a hand injury.

But, obviously, the ribs change everything. That is a legit injury.

Even the announcers were baffled as they had talked to Haden the night before.

I think corners are like RBs. You can find them later in the draft. I would see what Haden would bring back in a trade.

I completely disagree with you on Desir though. I think he has shown a lot of improvement. Good position even on catches. You would hope with continued experience he will continue to get better.

Back to Haden ...one thing I would like some inside knowledge on. How much work does he do on the technique aspect of the position and how much film study does he do?

I didn't mention DeSir on this thread. I think he played pretty good today. I just don't think he played better than Whit. I don't even think it was that close. I was just making a point on the other thread about predetermined opinions and he got his little feelings hurt.

One comment spoke to me loudly last year. Joe was talking about Manziel after yet another picture came out of JM doing something stupid. Joe said something like, we all like to party, but just like a DD, you gotta have to be aware of the phones. He was referring to the cameras on the phones. He was talking about how guys like him might not be recognized, but Johnny would be.

So, it wasn't about living a clean lifestyle, it was about not getting caught. I thought.........that's exactly why he is not one of the top corners. There are guys who want it. There are guys who are satisfied and love the life, rather than the ring and jacket.

Yeah I don't get the impression Haden is all that competitive. Lacks the fire to want to get the best of his man. Doesn't necessarily hate to lose.

Do you remember when you and I had a conversation about competitiveness of the players when Chud was here? Joe was one of the guys I was referring to.

I think it's been a problem on this team with a lot of players for a long time, including Haden and Thomas.

One thing that I am miffed about with the guy is that he has played great in spurts. A good part of last year he was really pretty good. Has he just given up because the defense as a whole has way underachieved? The losing has finally gotten to him?

If you take away the first four games of last year, I thought Haden was the second best CB in the league after Revis.

He's a frustrating player because he's not consistent. And he has the pedigree and the ability to be dominant. At some point you have to wonder how bad he wants it.

Seems like we've been asking that question every year he's been in the league.

This team is in desperate need of winners. They are in desperate need of players who just hate to lose. I don't think Haden falls into that category.

When I was coaching, we occasionally had the conversation about which kinda player you would rather have. The guy who loves to win or the guy who hates to lose. The guys I respected most all agreed that it's the guy who hates to lose.

Guys who love to win are great when you are winning, but buckle when things get tough. Think about how many late-game completions Joe gives up. Guys who hate to lose, never give up. I know most everyone of you hates Ray Lewis, but I would have taken that guy on my team over almost anyone who wasn't a qb.

Joe Haden is living off holding A.J Green in check a couple games.
He doesn't create enough turnovers.
He's a very good CB.
But he's not in the same league as a Janoris Jenkins
Or Richard Sherman.

Of course it is. It's getting to all of them. Joe Thomas comments are pretty much defeatism. Who cares? We're a good team, but we're coached horribly. Of course they feel defeated.

Mike Pettine left it up to Joe Haden who decided 'he didn't want to' play with broken finger vs. Chargers

CLEVELAND, Ohio --- Browns coach Mike Pettine stressed Monday that it was Joe Haden's decision not to play in San Diego with his broken right finger.

Furthermore the NFL is looking into why Haden was listed as probable on Friday with his rib and finger injuries and then a surprise scratch on gameday.

"We left it up to Joe, and he made the decision that he didn't want to go,'' Pettine said Monday during his news conference.

Pettine said he didn't know Haden wasn't going to play until the morning of Sunday's 30-27 loss when he tested it in pre-game warmups.

"He went out with (assistant secondary coach/corners) Aaron Glenn,'' said Pettine. "They went ahead and covered [his finger] up. He went out and worked out before the deadline to turn in the inactives to see if he could go or he couldn't."

A league source told Northeast Ohio Media Group that Haden sat out the game not just with the broken finger, but the rib injury as well.

After the game, Pettine explained that the Browns had to do some last-minute scrambling against Philip Rivers and trio of quality receivers in Keenan Allen, Malcom Floyd and Stevie Johnson.

"Joe practiced with it during the week in some pain,'' Pettine said Sunday. "I just don't think that it ever lessened to the point that he could go. He came out early and tested it and decided that he couldn't go. So we had to adjust."

An NFL spokesman told NEOMG, "As is customary in these instances, we have checked in with the club on this to provide an explanation here. We are looking into it.''

Profootballtalk.com first reported that the league was investigating, which is standard anytime a player who's probable -- meaning there's a 75% chance they'll play -- sits out the game.

The Browns now have 48 hours to submit a written explanation of why Haden didn't play. Frankly, they might be a little puzzled about that themselves.

On Friday, Haden said he was going to play because he knew the defense needed him. It was already without nickelback K'Waun Williams, and safety Tashaun Gipson was questionable with a groin injury.

"I'm ready to go,'' said Haden. "I'm going to be fine.''

He added that he was banged up, but "just trying to fight through it."

He even appeared to be pulling his shirt on slowly before the interview, which indicated the ribs might still be bothering him.

"Definitely, you gotta do what you gotta do, man, when you're trying to get the defense right,'' he said. "I feel like I gotta be out there."

It wasn't the first time there was an apparent disconnect between Haden and the coaching staff over an injury this season. During last week's 27-20 loss to the Raiders, Haden suffered the rib injury on the first play of the game when he took rookie receiver Amari Cooper's helmet to his ribs. Haden stayed in the game, but gave up four straight passes to Cooper before the Browns went to more of a zone defense.

After the game, Pettine cut Haden no slack.

"We have our best corner on their best receiver, and they made plays,'' said Pettine. "We had to do some juggling, and I will be curious to see on the tape how it played out. ....There were times where they were going good against good and they were making plays, especially early."

The next day, Pettine said he made those remarks before he knew that Haden hurt the ribs on the opening play. Instead, he thought he first hurt them after making the tackle on a 54-yard run in the third quarter. Haden went to the locker room after that, but returned.

X-rays on the ribs were negative, but it was diagnosed the following day as a rib contusion, a source said.

On Thursday, defensive coordinator Jim O'Neil also said he didn't know Haden had hurt the ribs on the first play.

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2015/10/mike_pettine_said_joe_haden_de.html

The dumpster fire continues to burn out of control. Man!

as far as i am concerned this could have just as easy gone into your team morale thread.

will probably need its own thread when Pet gets suspended.

something is amiss with this whole Haden not active thing ... whether he spouted off, decided to make a statement and not play, or something else ... something seems fishy (per usual)

Haden was upset with the fans after the Oakland game.

Maybe it has something to do with that.

I think he was upset because Pet called him out for not doing a good job of covering Cooper in the Oakland game.

If that is true, Joe should be traded immediately. I am not saying he needs to be happy w/Pet's criticism, but to sit out a game because of it is inexcusable.

It's a loser's mentality.

I agree. The fact that Pettine would say Joe "chose" not to play is very telling. Say what you want about Pet, but he rarely (if ever) makes his players look bad in the media.

To me, it sounds as if Pettine was rather blinded by Haden's decision not to play, especially after practicing all week with the injuries and with Haden saying Friday, he was going to play.

There could be more to this story but it sounds like Haden "suddenly" felt much worse on Sunday morning. Just what did Pettine do that needs to be investigated?

I'm sure there is more to the story that might become public in the future...then again, we may be left to read between the lines.

IMO, Pettine sounded like he was surprised with Haden's decision, not to play.

vers...given the way officials are calling the game, not allowing defenders to get away with as much as they did in the past, it puts Haden at a disadvantage.

Haden suddenly looks very average once you take his "hands on" style away. If a team is willing to give up a first round pick, it might be best to let Haden go.

A finger injury is one thing, but a rib injury is a whole other thing. I know from experience that when you have bruised ribs, everything hurts. Every movement, every cough, every laugh, or even just breathing hurts - a lot. I can't imagine playing football well when you're in that kind of pain. Haden has probably earned the benefit of the doubt here because whatever problems any of us ever had with his performances, I've never seen him dog it.

This right here.

No doubt about it ... if it's a bad bruise/crack to the ribs he wouldn't be a wimp for sitting out (and I understand the incentive to NOT let other teams know that his ribs are hurt ... and a finger injury is a good way to hide that)

BUT ... the fact that he was listed as PROBABLE and Pettine's words made it sound like Joe decided not to play make it seem weird. If he was listed as QUESTIONABLE and Pettine said he was "too hurt to go this week" (whether a finger or rib injury) I'd accept it and move on.

I agree w/you in regards to rib injuries. The problem is that it was his finger that was the concern and not the ribs.

From the article posted by PBlack above:



I don't understand why Pettine is making it sound like the finger prevented Haden from playing, when apparently the Browns reported both the finger and ribs as reasons for being out of the lineup. Maybe he doesn't want it known that Haden is playing with injured ribs? I wish the Browns would stop being so weasily about injuries, like they're putting something over on somebody. Pettine had to know this would reflect badly on Haden. Its a good way to lose your locker room, dissing vets to the media.

I think there is certainly a problem between Pet and Haden. No doubt.

I mentioned earlier that I read another article yesterday that talked about the finger being the issue w/Haden and not the ribs. It was written later in the week. You can choose to believe if I am making that up or not.

But yeah, the main point is that there is a problem between Pet and Haden. That seems pretty obvious.

I'm starting to believe Haden was okay to go, but whatever reason(s) decided to sit it out.

You got JT, pro bowler all pro, playing through mcl issues and injuries, and your corner you paid a ton to cannot play because "his finger?"

I think there's more to this story, and the roads will lead to more shame. JMO

NFL looking into Joe Haden sitting vs. Chargers despite being probable

Link

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- The NFL is looking into why Joe Haden was probable for Sunday's 30-27 loss to the Chargers but was ruled inactive for the game that morning.


Haden was listed as probable with rib and finger injuries suffered during the 27-20 loss to the Raiders Sept. 27th, meaning he had a 75% chance of playing.

Coach Mike Pettine revealed after the Chargers game that the finger was broken.

An NFL spokesman confirmed for Northeast Ohio Media Group Monday that the league was investigating, which was first reported by profootballtalk.com.

"As is customary in these instances, we have checked in with the club on this to provide an explanation here,'' the spokesman said. "We are looking into it.''

The Browns now have 48 hours to submit a written explanation of why Haden didn't play.

Haden was limited in practice all week, and had two of the fingers on his right hand taped together when he walked out to the practice field on Friday. After practice, after pulling his shirt on slowly, he said he'd play, in part because nickelback K'Waun Williams was ruled out with a concussion and safety Tashaun Gipson was questionable with a groin injury.

He also said he wouldn't need to wear a flak jacket to protect the ribs.

"Definitely, you gotta do what you gotta do when you're trying to get the defense right,'' he said. "I feel like I gotta be out there."

But Haden went out and tested the finger in pre-game warmups and was ruled inactive shortly thereafter.

"We left it up to Joe, and he made the decision that he didn't want to go,'' Pettine said Monday.

Pettine said Haden went out onto the field with assistant secondary coach Aaron Glenn to test the finger. A source told NEOMG that Haden was also struggling with the rib injury that morning.

"They went ahead and covered (his finger) up,'' he said. "He went out and worked out before the deadline to turn in the inactives to see if he could go or he couldn't."

Gipson also left the game with an ankle injury and did not return, leaving the Browns without Williams, Haden or Gipson on the Chargers gamewinning field goal drive.

Pettine said he hoped to get some of his injured players back for Baltimore this week, and "hopefully Joe can get more comfortable with the finger injury so we can get him back out there as well.''

Joe Banner ‏@JoeBanner13 29m29 minutes ago
Luckily I worked with Joe Haden for 1 1/2 yrs. I don't know what happened in this situation, but he is a great player & person. Top notch!!!

lol @ CaptainIrrelevant
Why even bother posting that guy's drivel? He's an idiot, and he's not even in the league.

some posters liked him. ofcourse the guy is a idiot. the proof of that is the hire of farmer.

Makeup by Banner after calling Haslam a moron. With Banner you never know if he's telling the truth or BSing for a reason only he knows.

There is no reason for Banner to make something up. His Bedside manner wasn't always the best but he did know Football and players along with coaches.

As for the injuries. The ribs were not an issue cause he had Xrays and it shows no breaks.

This is not a coaches call nor should it be. Every player knows their pain to an injury especially one that is not black and white but more individual.

You can have a broken finger and it is more NUMB than painful. Then you can have the slightest fracture in a certain spot that is like torture as in pain.

Ribs...it is up to the individual.

Haden, just guessing. But he didn't complain at all about the ribs and the pain. His concern was the Finger. They didn't even have the ribs down as an injury for this week. I'm sure Haden wanted to go but the pain probably got worse instead of better. So between the ribs and stretching and then knocking down a pass with the hand that had the finger....he thought best not only for himself but for the team to go without him.

His background is not that of a wimp and he's been a straight up guy always working hard for us. I think this current scrutiny and implications of him just dogging it is well on called for.

jmho

I believe many posting on this thread are either using cheap drugs or simply wish to put a negative spin on anything and everything.

Haden had a rib injury. Now unless I'm missing something, only the player knows the extent of the pain and restrictions that injury is placing on himself. Who else would you ask besides the player and who else would know but the player?

I think a lot of this speculation is silly at best.

Haden is good. And maybe right now he's hurt and has been hurt in the first 3 games.

But we have seen it in the previous years where he has these dud games a the absolute worst times.

And he still can't cover Antonio Brown.

Browns coach accepts blame for criticism toward Joe Haden


AP 1:44 p.m. EDT October 7, 2015
link

BEREA, Ohio (AP) — Browns coach Mike Pettine accepted blame for the heavy criticism directed at Pro Bowl cornerback Joe Haden for not playing with a broken finger.

Haden chose not to play in Sunday's loss at San Diego because of a broken finger on his right hand, an injury he sustained a week earlier against Oakland.

Following the game, and again on Monday, Pettine said it was solely Haden's decision not to play, saying "Joe made the decision that he didn't want to go."

Those comments prompted Haden being ripped by some fans and media members for choosing not to play.

On Wednesday, Pettine called any condemnation of Haden "unwarranted" and said he should have done a better job explaining the player's decision not to dress against the Chargers. Pettine said he met with Haden after learning of the "flak" he's taken.

"I will bear some of that blame just in detailing the procedure and how it went," Pettine said. "But Joe made the decision based on he didn't feel he could be 100 percent and he felt it would hurt the team if he played. So it's something that I've talked about it with him and I'm comfortable with where we are with it."

Haden, who also hurt his ribs against the Raiders on Sept. 27, tested his finger during pregame warmups before choosing not to play. Without Haden, Chargers quarterback Phillips Rivers passed for 358 yards and three touchdowns in a 30-27 win.

Pettine called Haden "one of the faces of our franchise" and that it's unfortunate he has been subjected to any ridicule.

"Nobody questions his toughness, his leadership, how important the Browns are to him, what football, what being a Cleveland Brown means to him and vice versa," Pettine said. "So I think it's unwarranted, and I misspoke. Joe wanted to be out there. He wanted to play. But just in his assessment, did not want to put the team at risk knowing that he could not be at the percentage that in his heart he knew couldn't get to."

The Browns were required to provide a written explanation to the NFL, which is investigating why Haden didn't play after being listed as "probable" on the injury report.

Pettine downplayed the issue.

"I don't know how often this happens, but we don't see this as a big deal," he said. "I doubt the league will as well."

A league spokesman said the matter is still under review.

___

I still think Haden is one of the top corners in the league...Not too worried about him...I just find it odd that we played awful the first what 5-6 games last year...and this year seems to be the same...I don't know why it takes so long for him to find his groove...maybe with the touchy rule changes last year he had to redefine his craft and settle in...seems like its bothering him again...But heck even Patrick Peterson got burnt alot last year too

I see no reason for Pettine to accept any blame for Haden choosing not to play last Sunday, due to his sore ribs and broken finger.

As a leader of the team, you set an example by the way you conduct yourself during tough times..not sure what kind of example Haden is setting by claiming he would be ready to go on game day and practicing all week with his injuries..then when game day arrives, Haden blindsides the coaching staff by changing his mind about playing.

No need for Pettine to accept any blame for Haden's actions.

At all levels of football, football players play hurt, even with sore ribs and a broken finger.

Oh oh Pit...blind squirrel alert again.

Article by Mac just after your post...almost exactly what I said.

Pettine is backtracking.



http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-foot...FTAG=YHF7e3228e

Joe Haden: Realization he had to sit vs. Chargers ‘the worst feeling ever’

Link

The pain Joe Haden felt in his broken finger Sunday wasn’t anywhere close to the kind he felt as he watched his teammates from the sidelines of San Diego’s Qualcomm Stadium.

“It is the worst,” Haden said. “It is the worst feeling ever.”

Haden’s decision didn’t come lightly.

All throughout the week, Haden expressed confidence in his ability to fight through the pain because he’s done it before. Just last year, with the Browns officially out of playoff contention, Haden pushed through the flu and a lingering shoulder injury to play in the regular season finale at Baltimore.

Haden knows his limits, though, and he realized during a pre-game workout Sunday he wasn’t going to be able to help his teammates. The pain he experienced in his finger wasn’t any better than it was at practice, where he was limited. A cast didn’t help.

Haden talked to a number of his defensive teammates one-on-one, including veterans Donte Whitner, Karlos Dansby and Tramon Williams, shortly after the decision was made.

“I felt like I was playing with one hand,” Haden said. “So when it came down to that, I felt like I would be letting the team down if I was out there bracing myself and only playing with my left hand. It came down to that decision and that is why I ended up not playing.

“If I am hurt, I am hurt. If I can’t go, I can’t go. Hurt is different than injury. I play hurt all the time. If I am injured and I feel like I am going to hurt the team I am not going to go out there.”

Haden continued Wednesday from the locker room, his passion increasing with each answer.

“That is why I kept it until the last minute. I wanted to go. I want to play. Me not being out there I understand – I am a guy that we need for this defense,” Haden said. “I am out there and we are in zero and we are rolling coverages away. It is really not a one-for-one swap … Where I was coming from was I want to be out there. I want to help my guys. At the end of the day when I am going to hurt them not being able to use both hands and only being able to play with my left hand, it is not going to be good.”

Haden’s decision wasn’t questioned by his teammates in the locker room or coach Mike Pettine, who said any criticism of the decision was “unwarranted” and apologized to Haden for any role he played in eliciting it from those outside the facility.

“Nobody questions his toughness, his leadership and how important the Browns are to him and what being a Cleveland Brown means to him and vice versa,” Pettine said.

Haden, who is also battling a rib injury, was limited at Wednesday’s practice. He holds the same optimism he carried throughout last week’s practices about his status for Sunday’s game at Baltimore.

If Haden is back, he’ll team with nickel back K’Waun Williams, who is set to return from a concussion, to give the secondary an injection of depth after playing without three starters during most of last week’s second half.

“I just want to be out there for the squad,” Haden said.


Video on link page.

Joe Haden needs to quit crying. Just get ready for Baltimore. Enough of the drama already. Get out there, make an effort, play some damn ball already. Every week demands you go out and prove yourself. No one gives a crap about what you did last week. Your opponent could care less and will test you if warranted.