Nice Special Teams signing considering we lost Tae Davis the other day.

I really hope we sign him.

He may not be an all pro but he is the type of guy that teams need. When he was with the Colts all you heard was how great he was as a teammate.

Players respect Walker. It is plain and simple.

Washington is not a good destination. That place has been an eye sore under Snyder.

We can find another middle linebacker that is not the issue. The issue is Walker is known and is a plus player.

Browns doing a nice job of improving this off-season.

He is known for special teams.

Here is what ESPN's Michael Rothstein [I'm guessing he is paid by ESPN to cover the Falcons] had to say about Ford:





https://www.espn.com/blog/atlanta-f...ght-do-with-each-of-their-25-free-agents

The type of signing that will go unnoticed by many.

Most special teams players are unheralded. Yet over the full season they are important.

Our special teams over the last two seasons was poor overall. Priefer paid the price. When you sign a guy like this for $2 plus you expect him to make plays.

AB has been methodical about improving the areas that needed to improve.

A GM should try to make upgrades to all positions on the team whenever it makes sense and can be done. ST's are no different and neither is depth at all positions. I think he will be used as the gunner on ST's and should be a huge improvement in that capacity.

Not sure if these have been posted:

Dalvin Tomlinson contract:
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cleveland-browns/dalvin-tomlinson-21796/

Juan Thornhill contract:
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cleveland-browns/juan-thornhill-29099/

Ogbonnia Okoronkwo contract
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cleveland-browns/ogbonnia-okoronkwo-25261/

@Bull_Dawg the contract updates for the players noted, because the moneys become guaranteed, those moneys now get spread across the remainder of the contract for salary cap purposes. While this is "kicking the can down the road" it does open up those moneys to be used this year.

I agree. I always find these signings "interesting" because I've thought of many STers as being bottom-of-the-roster guys who make the team because of the ST ability...and are unlikely to see the field otherwise. This guy isn't a total project, so he may see the field if circumstances dictate...so that's good. With our luck, we will draft a late-round guy/flyer with promise who will have to make the team on Sts while developing into a contributor otherwise...and we will be "stuck" with (2) guys who will only play Sts in '23. It won't affect the cap...it won't stymie the growth on O, D, or STs...but it could make the 53 even tighter to crack. I'm sure the coaches and FO would welcome that "problem".

Man...I do not get the love for Walker. He's a good guy and all...but he doesn't do anything special to my (admittedly untrained) eye.

I don't think all guarantees get pro-rated. Signing bonuses are guarantees that do. The option bonuses do, also, get pro-rated, it appears. I think the money becoming guaranteed, by itself, just means we'd still have to pay them that if we cut them now. For example, before only 10M of Myles' contract was guaranteed, now the full ~$17M is guaranteed. It doesn't change anything on the cap. I'm still trying to figure out if the option bonuses change anything capwise or if they were already assumed for cap space projection purposes. Before we could have gotten out of them, but now they've been paid and the cap hits are fixed as they were spread out as projected, I believe.

He had a $1.2M contract last year playing behind Lockett and Metcalf. Can't imagine any deal being more than one year for much money. Clearly, the Browns are trying to find a speedy/deep threat WR. I'd rather have someone like Chark or Hardman for a little more. Maybe he is in town because the other options fell through in some form or fashion??

Could be an option as a slot receiver. Good speed. Catches the ball. Injured last year w/Seattle. I think he missed about 5 or 6 games. I don't think I watched him last year in Seattle. I liked him in SF. I remember him taking a knee in honor of his son who was born prematurely and died. Not sure about the money? I do think we could use help in the slot.

👎

Why a thumbs down - this guy fits the Berry Mold to an absolute tee. Talented, ubber athletic - underachiever so far in his career. That's been the Berry MO with several signings. Some have worked out some haven't but we have never given away much to try them out and see if they can turn their careers around.

I think a lot of fans are expecting an answer instead of what you described as an " underachiever so far in his career". Someone who is actually a more proven WR. Which could still happen. At this stage I think a lot of fans are looking for more of a proven commodity at the WR position than placing odds on another "Some have worked out some haven't."

Like I said that could still happen. Hopefully Goodwin is being considered for someone further on down the depth chart than the answer some people are hoping for if he's signed. I could see him as a further on down the depth chart guy which may be an upgrade in that role. Which this FO should still be striving to accomplish so if that's how it works out I think it would be a good signing.

He is 32 years old. His best days are long gone. To me this is like throwing in the towel on signing a WR.

I respect your football knowledge, so I will give my opinion and then ask you a question. I don't like this FA WR class. At all! I have said it numerous times. I have maintained we should concentrate on the defensive side of the ball in FA and go after a WR or two in the draft. I think the FA WRs all have huge question marks and will cost way more than they are worth. If we do go after a WR, I would target a lower tiered guy like Goodwin. I liked Thielen, but even he got more than he is worth.

Now the question: Do you really think it would be wise to spend significant money on any of the FA WRs out there, especially given their injury history and inconsistent production?

j/c...

I would rather see a trade for a WR or sign one (Hardman) that could be with us for more than a year.
The roster spot he would take up would be better spent (imo) on a player who has a future with us past this season, especially with DPJ possibly hitting FA next year.

I understand what you are saying about, "I liked Thielen, but even he got more than he is worth." But that's a common misconception a lot of fans have. They often look at signings from the past off season and see this years salaries as being too high. We both know that the price tag for WR's has been escalating so that was to be expected. Then there's the increase in the salary cap which means in general the price tag for skilled players simply continue to rise. It's just the price of doing business. An NFL FO has one of two choices. Either keep up with the cost of the market or refuse to sign mid to upper level FA's.

So far the Browns FO has been managing that fine line between doing both and a good job of it at that.

j/c...

More toys for Ventrone.

He was with Ventrone in Indianapolis.

Please let the player be Schwartz. Please.

I hope there's something to this. It would seem odd to me that the Browns would go all in on watson and then be stingy in regards to the WR position.

If true, I don't really get the "why" of pursuing this trade. That's a lot to give up for a guy who is "okay." Also, I'm pretty sure that 2023 is the last year of his rookie contract and he is almost certainly going to want a big dollar contract.

The hard part when looking at Jeudy is judging his time with Denver.

He is 23. Still very young.

The Denver qb situation has been unsteady. Jeudy went into a tough situation. If there is interest on the Browns part. They have to look at him as a long term investment who would take over for Cooper at some point.

Always hard to tell what Jeudy's true potential is? If they look at him and see more than he has done so far.

Then he may be worth their second rounder.

I don't have an opinion on him.

I hear you. I think he is a good player. I think he has the ability to be upper echelon. I worry because we have already traded away picks for Watson. My biggest concern is his contract status. Imagine giving up a #1 and he leaves after a year. That's scary.

Pick up Jeudy's 5th year option in 2024. By the time Jeudy is due for a big contract, Cooper's contract has expired following the 2024 season in which Cooper will be 31.

Since we do not have a first rounder this year or next.

We would only make this deal with what we have. Some kinda of package of second rounder plus.

I don't think we really need a "A list" guy.

We have Chubb. He will get his. Cooper and DPJ will get targets. I think we will throw more to Njoku and Akins.

We really do not even know what we have in Bell. He has good numbers against man. He was ok for a first year player playing with two qb's.

No way he was going to get many targets last year. We do not know what we have in Woods and Weston.

Jeudy would be a big add. But I am not counting on him. I think we can get a guy to fill a role. We don't need a guy to get 80 catches and 1000 yards.

And he would only cost us just over 17M for the first two years. Jeudy was also used in the slot at Alabama, I m not sure if he has been used in the slot with Denver too.

I think the question for the Browns FO and coaching staff is do they think Judy is going to be better next year than any rookie they draft?

I do think there is a sense of urgency in the office and while long term thinking hasn't been totally eliminated, there is a small window in front of them. The thinking may be you worry about Judys next year contract, next year. Do you bank on a veteran player or do you bank of a rookie?

I am 100% confident that Haslam has communicated to everybody that counts that next year is very important for them. I am 100% confident that the coaching changes were made at the "suggestion" of the owner, and I am 100% behind Jimmy Haslam on this.

The guy has spent hundreds of $millions in support of his staff and now he expects to see a return. We haven't spent anything towards the Browns....well, I did just send off near $5000 for my season tickets, and we expect to see returns. I suspect that the Haslam group who just spent a quarter $billion on a QB and had to endure the PR backlash expect to see a return too. Don't you think? I think so, and agree they should expect a ROI. They don't just throw money down the drain just like you or I. They have pride just we have pride in our team.

No, I don't think the FO is looking for a rookie receiver to answer their needs. Maybe it's not Judy, I have seen Godwin being mentioned. I don't know who it is, but we will try hard to bring in a vet receiver.

Then we can draft one as well. Then the draft is wide open to bring in good players who might help immediately and in the future.

Just Win, Baby, as Al Davis used to say. I think that is what Jimmy has communicated to the staff.

Picking up the option should cost the Browns around $13 million. He will want more after that. Look, I have scoffed at all the drama about salary cap hell, but you have to manage the cap. Having guys on rookie deals is a good thing for the cap. It gives the team flexibility.

We paid Watson big bucks. He should be able to elevate others. This isn't a Baker Mayfield situation who had to be carried by others. If Watson can't return to elite status, the team is doomed and a guy like Jeudy won't change that. I'd spend the money elsewhere.

I'd trade for Jeudy and still draft a WR. Watson will be restructured again next year. Garrett and Ward could be as well. Chubb may be gone or extended and restructured. Next year is likely Teller's last year if he's not traded in the offseason. I do not think a $13M cap hit in 2024 would be an issue. I certainly understand your POV, however.

Here's some entertaining media on media crime as this devolves into quite the back and forth.

I understand your POV, as well. It's an honest debate, which I will always welcome. No insults, no misrepresenting one another's message. Just a slight difference of opinion. I wish all contrary opinions would follow along these lines.

One side note. I am not in the Daryl Ruiter camp. I think most of us know that Dallas dealt Cooper because of his contract, which I believe was about $20 million and Jones was ticked at him for getting Covid and missing some time.

Judey hasn't even hit 1,000 yards receiving with a 16 game schedule.

not exactly inspiring numbers for 2 high picks and an additional player.

We may as well ask for 14 first-round picks for Chubb.

Not sure where Cory got Jeudy as the top YPRR WR. PFF has ten other guys in the top 10.

PFF WR YPRR Rankings Link

My issue with Jeudy is the cost both in the trade capital and cap space as well as questions around his durability. He's missed time with ankle injuries the past two seasons. Had nagging rib and shoulder injuries his rookie year. Also tore a meniscus at Alabama. His build is on the slight side which doesn't inspire confidence in his suddenly staying healthy.

If I'm going to gamble, I prefer that it's cost controlled.

I posted this link earlier, but click on it and scroll down a bit until you see the green and red bars. Jeudy did not have the highest YPRR, but it was very high.


https://www.rotowire.com/football/player/jerry-jeudy-14458

I don't know my friend.


I am not hopeful..

I don't even understand Felton being on the team last year, and definitely not this year.

Rooting for Felton. Like to see him putting in the work regardless of if it ever amounts to anything.

Re: Felton -

I'm not sure what saves him - our new ST coach believes in his utility as a KR/PR ?

Beyond that, it might be a long shot.

Imo

I'd much rather have DPJ than Jeudy their stats are very similar and we don't have to give up anything to keep him.

Who said it’s an either or situation? I assume both would be on the roster. I expect the Browns to run a lot of 11 personnel next season. I anticipate Watson throwing the ball 35+ times per game.

I don't know if we don't have room for another playmaker. We have 3.
Cooper
Chubb
DPJ (close enough and should be this year)

Juke is our perfect tier 2 receiver (most teams only have 1 of these)

Tier 3 We have
Ford/Felton/Bell

We attempted 32 passes a game and KC throws it 37 times a game

KC didn't have a single 1,000-yard WR
Minnesota only had 1 1k receiver
The chargers didn't have a 1k receiver

The Dolphins had 2 1k receivers but didn't have a 1k RB
TB had 2 1k receivers but didn't have a 1k RB
The Bengals had 2 (barely) 1k receivers but didn't have a 1k RB

the point is there is only so much ball to go around.

Chubb and Cooper and DPJ are out 1k players


So... yes, it is one or the other.

As we do not have a 1st, the ask is a 2nd and a player. Of course, that is the ask and not necessarily what they would get. But thinking of a 2nd + a player, they are going to want someone with value. So no Schwartz, Bryant, or Togiai. Who would it take? I have seen on social media where some are suggesting Newsome. I am sure Denver would be ok with that. Me, not so much. I think starter quality CBs are much more difficult to find than starter quality WRs.

j/c:

I think it's been mentioned here but not enough, IMO. The talent for Jeudy is there, but I think his age plays a HUGE factor in all of this. The upside to have your #1 WR for the next 5+ years must be appetizing to the FO. I guess it comes down to whether or not the juice is worth the squeeze regarding what you'd have to give up.

There just seems to be too much smoke around these two teams to ignore that the Browns are serious about it. Whether or not a deal is consummated is a different matter entirely.

I am not confident that Felton can become this type of guy, but it would be huge for the Browns if he could become a reliable slot WR and gadget guy.

Offense: Watson remotely as good as all are saying. One of the best O's in the NFL

Defense: DL looking excellent plus Schwartz as coach we should be a top 5 D and a bigtime turnover machine.

Special Teams: We are stacking this team with specialists - Man o Man

If we didn't make the trade and Baker did not heal as expected - I think we would have gone after Aaron Rogers Plus we would have had last years #13 pick Jordan Davis Oh my Gosh!!! But it is what it is still dont like the pediphile situation....smh rather have rogers!

[video:youtube][/video]

Dennis Dropcutt or Quincy Morgan anyone?

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2022/05/31/charges-against-jerry-jeudy-dropped/

Charges against Broncos wide receiver Jerry Jeudy have been dropped, three weeks after he was arrested and held overnight for second-degree criminal tampering, with a domestic violence enhancer.

I agree for the most part. But not sure getting Jeudy means you replace Cooper in 2024.

He was an amazing college WR. He got hurt I believe and I guess lost his confidence - An amazing turnaround with these drops. He will get back together again.

WR is one of the most riskiest position to invest in. Once the fantasy football hit the scene all this got to invest in WR, WR, WR bs has gone off the books. Yes the rare amazing WR makes a difference , but the draft each yeaer gives you around 12 guys to add to the roster and make a good shot for us.


QB, LT, Edge rusher, Cover Corners are still the rare commodities to go after and make a difference to the team.

Go Browns!!!

Not throwing shade at Duffin, but I think the Browns have more than two options at WR.

It was vs. Man Coverage which Cory was not clear on .

Cory
@realcorykinnan
-Top receiver in yards per route run last year
-Creates more separation than almost any receiver in the league
-Already a top 5 route runner in the NFL (comfortably)
-7 less drops and 4% lower drop rate than the Browns' WR1 last year

https://twitter.com/realcorykinnan/status/1638511407657369600

Averages 3.7 yards of separation.

https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/receiving#average-separation

Browns' trade target Jerry Jeudy well worth the asking price
Cory Kinnan
March 22, 2023 9:39 am ET

The Cleveland Browns are making a concerted effort to get more explosive in the passing attack in 2023. And the smoke is visible between the Browns and Denver Broncos as they continue to float out their former first round wide receiver as trade bait. As the Browns continue to pursue Jerry Jeudy on the trade market, with the asking price likely the 42nd overall pick in the draft and an additional pick, this price for Jeudy is well worth it.

Here we take a look at data provided by SIS, PFF, ESPN Analytics, and Next Gen Stats to break down exactly what makes Jeudy such a tantalizing trade target for the Browns.

A weak draft class of wide receivers and a surplus of day-three picks

If there is one thing I am certain of with the Browns as the 2023 NFL Draft nears, it is that they are not making six picks on day-three of the draft. With two fourths and two fifths, it makes sense to take one of those picks with the 42nd overall pick to make the deal. With only four picks in next year’s draft, this makes more sense than trying to pull a pick from that pool.

Compared to the three classes before the 2023 crop of receivers, it is just not a good class at the top. In this wide receiver class, where the most tantalizing targets with that pick are North Carolina’s Josh Downs or Cincinnati’s Tyler Scott, flipping 42 for Jeudy would be a home run.

It is doubtful the Browns want to go into the draft without a pick until the 98th overall pick. But if they can reframe and tell themselves that Jeudy was their second round pick, it may smooth out a bit of the thought process.

Jerry Jeudy flat-out gets open

According to Next Gen Stats, Jeudy is the best separator of any target who is not a tight end or a pure slot receiver with over seven yards of cushion. Additionally, Jeudy is the top receiver in yards per route run against man coverage, proving to be more than capable of torching cornerbacks one-on-one.

When going against man coverage in 2022, Jeudy posted a massive 21 yards per route run, no drops, a 150.5 rating, and an EPA and points earned that would rank him fifth of all wide receivers in the NFL (according to SIS).

He possesses explosive hip sink, plays the game in slow motion to create and hunt out blindspots of defensive backs, and is unbelievably sudden at the top of routes. Even with Cooper on the roster, Jeudy would be the best route runner on the team in Cleveland.

https://twitter.com/JetPackGalileo/status/1613233584936042497

Jeudy can do something no Browns receiver could do a year ago: create after the catch

There is not a receiver on the Browns roster that has shown the ability to create lightning in a bottle with the ball in their hands after the catch. The only name currently on the roster that may be able to do so is Jaelen Darden, but he is not a lock to make the roster and struggled to find the field after he was claimed by the Browns late in the season.

Enter Jeudy.

Sixth in yards after the catch in 2022, Jeudy is an incredibly hard man to bring down in the open field. Elusive and explosive, Jeudy can break angles in the open field on his way to the endzone and shows the ability to stop on a dime and change directions losslessly as he reverses the field.

On screens, manufactured touches, and creating after the catch down the field, Jeudy has a skillset that is desperately needed on this team.

The drop issues of Jeudy are vastly overblown

Sure, Jeudy had a rough time catching the football as a rookie, but since then his hands have been around league average. In 2022, Jeudy was charted with six drops according to PFF. This was the same as his teammate Courtland Sutton, Amari Cooper, Davante Adams, DeVonta Smith, and Ja’Marr Chase.

His drop percentage was 26th in the NFL, below the likes of Diontae Johnson, Alec Pierce, Brandin Cooks, Jaylen Waddle, and Christian Kirk.

SIS has Jeudy charted at just a 6.5 percent drop rate this past season. Beyond his rookie season, the drops and drop rate of Jeudy have trended toward the league average more than any sort of outlying or glaring number.

Drops happen to everybody. Guess who has a consistently staggering drop rate that nobody cares about because he produces? Kansas City Chiefs tight end Travis Kelce, but attention is not paid to that because he produces.

And Jeudy produced in 2022 despite playing with a quarterback who was among the bottom five in the NFL a year ago.

Closing the book on Jeudy

Amari Cooper is pegged as having a great year for the Browns a year ago. And he did! Setting career marks, or coming even with career marks almost across the board, Cooper left a ton to like on the field in 2022. However, Jeudy produced just as well as he did across the board in two fewer games and 32 fewer targets.

He is an elite receiver at beating man coverage, and his drop issues have trended more toward the league average than anything else. With two years of control on his rookie contract still, before Jeudy would need a new deal, the Browns would have a cost-effective WR1B to Cooper’s 1A in 2023.

As the Browns have to deal with the reality of Cooper’s cap hit beyond 2023 as well, Jeudy gives the Browns a pure top option even if they have to part ways elsewhere. For the price of the 42nd overall pick and an additional day three pick (of which the Browns have six), the price of admission is with it for Jeudy.

https://brownswire.usatoday.com/lists/browns-jerry-jeudy-trade-worth-it/

Thanks for posting that article is informative.

Now I want Jeudy.

It looks to me that his upside pushes this to; we should get him.

Make this happen.

His potential is way higher than the receivers I have seen in this draft. His impact on our roster will be way more than what I would expect from pick 42.

He is young. He will make the offense cook. He is a good longer term investment. The situation that has been Denver is giving us an opportunity we would not have had.

My hope is we resign Walker and trade for Jeudy.

j/c...

Welcome back.

Yes!

Who was the other? Pocic?

Would have guessed Dobbs.

Duh, of course it was.

That's my brain fart.

They got a very productive RB and probably on the cheap.

Glad we resigned Walker.

Now Let's get Jeudy.

Agreed. We still need another DT as well as a speedy WR whether it's Jeudy or someone else.

Perion Winfrey.

Not sure if I said this already on here but this is probably the best roster, on paper, that the Browns have had since the return......by a large margin.

Don't know a better place to put this...but...if we run a Pistol-heavy offense, does that mean good news for Felton the RB? I didn't like him in the standard backfield set of pre-'23...just wondering if he translates better as a pistol RB.

Didn't want to start a new thread and was unsure where to put this, but it could lead to good conversation. Checking out the link will allow you to see the charts and make this easier to read.


Predicting The Cleveland Browns 53-Man Roster
ByJACK DUFFIN Mar 24, 1:05 PM


In this article, we are going to look at who the Cleveland Browns currently have under contract for every position room, some final free agency names they might add as well as who are the most likely guys to make the final 53-man roster.

There is going to be competition across the roster for who makes the final team which is really healthy because it will get the best out of the players plus if someone goes down injured there is a solid player behind them rather than having a giant hole in the team.

At the time of writing, we are still waiting on contracts for Josh Dobbs, Marquise Goodwin and Anthony Walker. A player's status is more dictated by guarantees than what they offer as a rotational or special teamer. I would believe Goodwin is on the veteran salary benefit but we won't know this until the numbers are released.

No free agency is coming to a close I will dig into the draft more and start providing you with some more information on likely players they target over the coming month.

Below is the current Cleveland Browns roster as of today and their status as where I see it on the team.

Locks - Players who I have 99% confidence will be on the final 53-man roster unless they are traded

Bubble - Players who are fighting to make the final team, those that don't might get picked up by other teams on waivers rather than making it to the Browns practice squad


Practice Squad Candidates - These players are unlikely to make the final 53-man roster and instead are trying to show enough that they can make the practice squad and continue developing


CURRENT SALARY CAP SPACE
The Cleveland Browns current cap space stands at $8,963,016

Here are the moves that have happened:

Watson Restructure +$35,936,000

Tomlinson $4,288,177

Thornhill $2,264,000

Okoronkwo $2,180,000

Pocic $2,064,000

Akins $1,565,000

Ford $1,500,000

Green $1,400,000

TakiTaki $1,232,500

Kunaszyk & Adams $1,092,500

Hill $1,055,618

Hurst $940,000

Still waiting on final contract structures for Dobbs, Goodwin & Walker.

Based on the Cleveland Browns' current draft picks they only require $1,186,237 of cap space to sign their rookies so this should easily be achievable.

Here is a list of potential restructures and an explanation of how they work. I wouldn't expect them to do one of these unless they really need to.

Cooper +$15.068m
Garrett +$12.936m
Teller +$9.136m
Bitonio +$7.868m
Chubb +$7.816m

On June 2nd the Browns will gain an additional $9.75m of cap space for John Johnson and $1.165m for Jadeveon Clowney. It is no issue waiting for this space as they will need a fund of $5-10m for injuries and the practice squad so this coming later is fine.

REMAINING CASH BUDGET
This offseason, I have written on how tracking cash spend is a good way to see how much else Andrew Berry is likely to do. Here is the initial article explaining why this is so useful. The projected number looks back at how Andrew Berry has operated in past years so explains why defensive tackle is so low and you will increase due to more investment there.

To give an example of how this would work; if they sign Calais Campbell for $5m a year, he would likely replace Jordan Elliott's $2,743,000 so it would be $2,257,000 net.

I have factored in $2.5m for Walker and $2m for Dobbs but we don't have finalized contract numbers yet so this could move around slightly.

They might look close to their maximum spend but they can continue upgrading the team especially if they are willing to move off of Elliott, Bryant, and Haeg which each free up space if replaced by a rookie or minimum contract player.




QUARTERBACK
Locks
Watson
Dobbs

Bubble
Mond

Practice Squad Candidate
N/A

Potential Free Agency Names
N/A

Potential Draft Addition
Rounds 6-7

This room is more or less set now, with Dobbs having a guaranteed deal to back up Watson. I would expect them to roll into next season with just the two quarterbacks because rostering a third one would likely come at the expense of a special teams linebacker and it doesn't seem like this is something they are willing to do now.

They might try to get Mond to the practice squad but there is a chance another team will snap him up.

Final 53
Watson
Dobbs


RUNNING BACK
Locks
Chubb
Ford

Bubble
N/A

Practice Squad Candidate
Kelly
McCrary

Potential Free Agency Names
Jerick McKinnon
Darrel Williams
Latavius Murray
Justin Jackson
Ty Johnson

Potential Draft Addition
Rounds 4-7

Chubb is locked in as your starter but I worry about relying on Jerome Ford to be your backup running back because if Chubb goes down in camp and misses the first four weeks of the season can he be relied on as the main guy for that stretch. During the 2022 season, he played in 14 offensive snaps with a stat line of 8 carries for 12 yards and 0 targets. His being on the sideline when the season was over and watching Hunt playing was incredibly frustrating as it was the perfect opportunity to see what they had.

I don't want to spend on a backup running back but if they can use the veteran salary benefit to get someone cheap who has experience such as a Jerick McKinnon or Latavius Murray then it would be a really nice floor if injury strikes. This certainly wouldn't stop Ford from beating them out in camp but I would rather make it a challenge than give him the role.

Then it seems like a lock they will add a running back during the draft, Deuce Vaughn is a direction they could go. Rookie running backs are usually very young and athletic so expect lots of names to show positively on my age & RAS guardrails board.

Final 53
Chubb
Free Agent
Ford
Rookie


WIDE RECEIVER
Locks
Cooper
Peoples-Jones
Moore
Bell

Bubble
Woods
Goodwin
Schwartz
Felton
Grant
Darden

Practice Squad Candidate
Baldwin
Stevenson
Harley
Weston

Potential Free Agency Names
N/A

Potential Draft Addition
Rounds 3-7

I would say the first four names are all locks for the roster and Cooper now has a shot at seeing his final two years out in Cleveland. They likely try to get an extension done with Peoples-Jones in June/July time. Moore has to play one more year before he can get around the negotiating table with the team. Bell showed a little bit in year one and keen to see what he can bring to the table in year two.

The Goodwin move is interesting to work out as it could go many different directions. My first thought is that Grant is knocked off the bottom of the roster but it could also be an indication that they don't think Woods is going to have a long term future with the team. There is a complete wildcard that they are looking to potentially trade DPJ and don't view him as a long term player here with the focus being on adding as much speed as possible.

They could then go ahead and draft someone which would then mean Goodwin, Woods and Grant are battling it out for one spot. We have no idea where Grant is at health-wise, he took a pay cut instead of being cut so he certainly isn't entering camp from a position of strength.

Final 53
Cooper
Peoples-Jones
Moore
Bell
Goodwin
Rookie


TIGHT END
Locks
Njoku
Akins

Bubble
Bryant

Practice Squad Candidate
Mitchell-Paden

Potential Free Agency Names
N/A

Potential Draft Addition
Rounds 3-7

I have believed all offseason they would look to move on from Byrant as has been a nice player but not one you would want to pay $2.7m to for 2023. They might look for a Mack Wilson/Chase Winovich-style trade where they swap him with another team's bubble player in the final year of a rookie deal or they could look to cut him as we get closer to a final 53 and know there have been no injury issues.

It will be important to add a rookie tight end as they take a year to develop and they have an out in Njoku's deal of $10m for 2024 as well as the option to move off of Akin's saving $2m. So getting a young player who can develop behind them in 2023 is ideal.

Final 53
Njoku
Akins
Rookie


TACKLE
Locks
Wills
Conklin
Hudson

Bubble
Haeg

Practice Squad Candidate
Wheatley

Potential Free Agency Names
N/A

Potential Draft Addition
Rounds 3-7

The two starters are locked in and I expect Wills's 5th-year option to be picked up before the 1st of May. This will make him a below-average costing left tackle at $14,175,000. While he is only providing average play it gives them two years to work out a long-term plan at left tackle because an extension feels unlikely.

Hudson is now a lock, he was only on the bubble encase they added a veteran swing tackle, now this has passed I expect him to be safe for the swing tackle position.

I expect them to draft a left tackle potentially as high as pick 74 because if you have someone who you believe might be an 8-10 year answer at the position then you grab them and have 1-2 years to develop them to replace Wills.

Don't be surprised if Haeg is around until the end of camp as injuries to Conklin will remain a concern. They could then be able to trade him off so they aren't left with $500,000 of dead cap as teams will always have the need for swing tackles, multiple teams offered him when the Browns did the deal last year.

Final 53
Wills
Conklin
Hudson
Rookie


GUARD
Locks
Bitonio
Teller

Bubble
Forbes
Deaton

Practice Squad Candidate
N/A

Potential Free Agency Names
Michael Dunn

Potential Draft Addition
Rounds 3-7

The two starters are locked in but they could look to move on from Teller next offseason so this might come into play with how they build the room.

While Forbes is okay they might want another veteran to be the third guard, Michael Dunn would be a prime candidate. They didn't offer him the $2.7m restricted free-agent tender but that wouldn't stop them from bringing him back on a cheaper deal.

What they do in the draft will give us a big indication of how they view Deaton. If they add someone he is likely to be forced off the roster but if they don't then it leaves him a nice route to develop as the team's fourth guard for the 2023 season.

Final 53
Bitonio
Teller
Free Agent/Forbes
Deaton


CENTER
Locks
Pocic

Bubble
Harris

Practice Squad Candidate
N/A

Potential Free Agency Names
N/A

Potential Draft Addition
Rounds 5-7

Pocic is locked in as the starter and there is a good chance Harris is kept on for his final rookie contract season as the backup. They could look to bring Deaton over here and add a guard in the draft because he would have three rookie years left versus one for Harris.

While there is the chance they draft someone I don't know if we see it in 2023, because Pocic has two guaranteed years before a team option to get out of the deal for the 2025 season. I would assume they look to draft a center next offseason and then start developing him to fill that role after Pocic.

Final 53
Pocic
Harris


EDGE DEFENDER
Locks
Garrett
Okornkwo
Wright

Bubble
Thomas

Practice Squad Candidate
Kamara

Potential Free Agency Names
Justin Houston
Melvin Ingram
Carlos Dunlap
Trey Flowers
Shaq Lawson

Potential Draft Addition
Rounds 3-7

While I would really like to see another free agent addition here to strengthen the room I'm not sure it happens. Personally, I would even add a cheaper name like Trey Flowers or Shaq Lawson to force Thomas out of the room, even if it is a camp battle between the pair to see who wins the roster spot.

I will discuss a defensive line free agent addition under defensive tackle who could be of use to the edge room on obvious run plays when you want a pure run-stuffer rather than a pass rusher like Okornkwo.

I think we might only see one defensive line draft pick but if they can work out a way to bring in two then it would be smart to take advantage of the strength of the draft.

Final 53
Garrett
Okornkwo
Wright
Rookie
Thomas/Cheap Free Agent


DEFENSIVE TACKLE
Locks
Tomlinson
Winfrey

Bubble
Elliott
Hurst
Hill
Stille
Togiai

Practice Squad Candidate
Perry
Dwumfour

Potential Free Agency Names
Calais Campbell
Matt Ioannidis
Shelby Harris
Chris Wormley

Potential Draft Addition
Rounds 3-7

Personally, I think the best realistic player the Browns could add that would complete free agency would be Matt Ioannidis or Calais Campbell which would be around $5-6m for a one year deal.




If they want a cheaper defensive tackle then Chris Wormley could be a really cheap one-year deal. He might start the season on PUP but then you have upside and an extra body joining the team.

The issue with drafting defensive tackles is that the rookie year is mostly a write-off as they develop physically to be ready for the NFL. That is why I would be happy rolling with cheap veterans in the position room who have proven they can perform in the NFL than almost red-shirting a player for a year as your 4th defensive tackle.

They can then let Hurst and Hill battle it out with Togiai for the fourth defensive tackle position. Moving on from Elliott makes a lot of sense considering he is due $2.7m this year.

Final 53
Tomlinson
Ioannidis
Winfrey
Hill/Hurst


LINEBACKER
Locks
Walker
Owusu-Koramoah
Takitaki
Kunaszyk

Bubble
Fields
Adams
Phillips

Practice Squad Candidate
Jackson

Potential Free Agency Names
Reggie Ragland

Potential Draft Addition
Rounds 3-7

The top three starters are now locked in with Walker, Owusu-Koramoah, and Takitaki. The question is going to be how long it takes for Takitaki to come back from his injury. This could be 4-9 weeks depending on how they use the PUP list if he isn't ready for week one. For this reason, I would be keen to add Ragland just as a solid depth veteran.

The contract for Adams includes $300,000 of guarantees which makes him very likely to make the final 53-man roster but I wouldn't call it a 99% certainly lock just yet. I would assume Fields is effectively now your Takitaki cover until he is healthy as he won't take a roster spot if he starts the season on the PUP list.

Kunaszyk's contract includes $500,000 of guarantees so he is locked in to make the roster as a special teams player rather than a pure linebacker.

Final 53
Walker
Owusu-Koramoah
Takitaki
Rookie
Adams
Kunaszyk


CORNERBACK
Locks
Ward
Newsome
Emerson
Green
Ford

Bubble
Graham

Practice Squad Candidate
N/A

Potential Free Agency Names
N/A

Potential Draft Addition
Rounds 5-7

The top five names are all locked in on the roster due to their guarantees. Since Ford has $925,000 in guarantees there is no route where he would get cut. This means Graham feels unlikely to make the final 53 based on where we are at currently. Ford can play slot corner if you need him to cover injury but he isn't your starter there and that is likely to remain with Newsome.

I can see them adding another cornerback later in the draft too, this might be a versatile corner who can potentially start in the slot in 2024 if he develops well. But they could stick to their more common philosophy of 5 corners and 5 safeties which would mean no draft picks here.

Final 53
Ward
Newsome
Emerson
Green
Ford
Rookie


SAFETY
Locks
Thornhill
Delpit

Bubble
Bell

Practice Squad Candidate
Bolden

Potential Free Agency Names
Joshua Kalu
Andrew Adams
DeAndre Houston-Carson
Rodney McLeod

Potential Draft Addition
Rounds 3-7

I think it would be risky to go into the 2023 season with only two proven safeties on the roster so replacing Ronnie Harrison with a proven veteran option like Kalu or McLeod would be a smart move. It also means if Delpit struggles for a stretch they have a legitimate option to bring in plus for three safety sets.

Where they have signed CB Mike Ford he is likely to be a special teams defensive back which takes away a large part of the role D'Anthony Bell had last season. So keeping 6 corners and 4 safeties would make it hard for him to make the final 53-man roster. I wouldn't rule them out not drafting a corner this year though, so what they do in the draft will have a significant impact on how the defensive backs balance out.

I think it would be smart and highly likely for them to add a safety in this draft because Delpit hits free agency next season so adding a rookie who can hopefully develop into this role gives you much-needed options next offseason. While they might like Delpit they can't keep everyone so he might be one they try and turn into a compensation pick by allowing more free agents to leave than they re-sign.

Final 53
Thornhill
Delpit
FA
Rookie

SPECIAL TEAMS
Locks
York
Bojoquez
Hughlett

Bubble
N/A

Practice Squad Candidate
N/A

Potential Draft Addition
N/A


This room shouldn't be changing this offseason so expect them to run it back unchanged. The key difference in 2023 special teams will come from the other roles like improved gunners etc.

Final 53
York
Bojoquez
Hughlett


HOW MANY ANDREW BERRY DRAFT PICKS GET CUT IN 2023
People have said Andrew never cuts his draft picks but part of this comes from inheriting a roster that had several nice starters but really lacked depth. Over several off seasons he has added more depth and this means draft picks will continue to get pushed off the bottom of the roster. Here are the draft picks who are getting cut/traded this offseason as they continue adding talent:

WR Schwartz

WR Felton

TE Bryant

DT Elliott

DT Togiai

LB Phillips

LB Fields

Plus WR Woods & ED Thomas who I have as 50/50 change of being cut


CASH SPEND STATUS
So based on my projected final 53 man roster we would be spending $260,145,290 in cash on the final 53 which is more or less identical to my projection of $259,419,200 at 115.4% of the 2022 NFL salary cap.

Where it has some projections for Walker's, Goodwin's & Dobb's contract it will end up very close to what we see for the season. The one thing to keep in mind is a DPJ extension which would see a significant jump in his 2023 cash despite not moving the salary cap this year very much.


FINAL 53
Here is my predicted 53-man roster for the Cleveland Browns

Key

14
COMMENTS
Green - A Free Agent addition

Yellow - A camp battle that is too close to call currently

Blue - A rookie pick


https://247sports.com/nfl/cleveland...ns-53-Man-Roster-207120421/#207120421_18

What's the deal with Kareem Hunt? I am really surprised nobody has signed him yet. Maybe he is asking for too much money and/or wants to be a featured back? He is only 27 (the same as Chubb). I still would like to see him in a Browns uniform.

Ekeler is on the market also and he is a better back imo. I feel it is a money thing.

3.8 yards/carry and only 3 TD last year. He also only had 210 yards receiving. He looked a bit slower at times last year.

One sportsbook released their Over/Under for team win total. Browns at 9.5.



Bengals 11.5 and Jags 10.5 seem high. Then again, Jags division is pretty weak.

Our staff needs the over.

At 9 wins we probably miss the playoffs. At 10 wins, even if we miss the playoffs they probably keep their jobs.

Berry is probably safe. I think his work the last few years has been solid. He also holds a card that says he never did get to hire "his" coach.

Just a question. If we did move on from Berry, I wonder if we would still get picks if we hired Raiche from her position as asst GM or does that only work if she goes to another team?

Just thinking out loud.

IMO Haslam likes his staff.

We would have to burn down for Haslam to make a change. We have to remember Haslam's history to this point.

A long string of coaching and FO firing and hiring. I don't think that was his wish. He has seen what poor organization looks like. I think Berry and Stefanski both fit what he wants. I believe he is encouraged by what he has seen.

DW was a major decision. Part of that decision was based upon AB and KS. In order for that investment to pay off.

It is important that the staff stays together. The goal is to win a Super Bowl and soon. Changing the GM and HC is not the way to reach the goal.

A couple of thoughts:

--Kareem Hunt: I heard a report on ESPN that while E. Elliot is looking to be signed asap, Hunt is intentionally waiting and wants to sign later in the process.

--I know it can't be stopped, but I absolutely despise talk of firing people at this time of year. We had to listen to the constant agenda-driven talk from around this time last year all the way up through the beginning of free agency. It's been refreshing to actually talk about football for a little while.

I wasn't comfortable giving up that much for Jeudy. I think the Browns were fiscally responsible in the way they handled the WR room.


Insider Report: Browns never got close with Broncos on WR Jerry Jeudy

Cory Kinnan
March 26, 2023 10:35 am ET

The Cleveland Browns struck a trade this week with the New York Jets for wide receiver Elijah Moore. However, before that, the Browns reportedly maintained steady communication with the Denver Broncos on former first round wide receiver Jerry Jeudy. According to Cleveland dot com’s Mary Kay Cabot, however, the Browns and Broncos never got close on Jeudy despite the smoke that infiltrated the internet.

“The Browns checked in on a number of possibilities, but weren’t prepared to meet the Broncos’ asking price”

Asking for a first round pick, the Browns would have likely had to surrender the 42nd overall pick and more for Jeudy compared to just moving back 32 picks in the draft for Moore.

https://brownswire.usatoday.com/202...medium=trueanthem&utm_source=twitter

Teams do find more money after June 1 and the realities of needing a player at a position become critical. Unless you are one of the top guys or you aren't that good and start looking for anything the minute FA begins, it makes some sense to wait.

I can see how you might get a bump over jumping at the first offer.

Another sportsbook as us at 9.

Click on the tweet to read article that includes actual clips of Stefanski talking.

Jimmy Haslam: No ultimatum for Kevin Stefanski but 'we have expectations'

Cory Kinnan
March 28, 2023 10:31 am ET


The Cleveland Browns are looking to get back into the playoffs for the first time since 2020, and so is owner Jimmy Haslam. Speaking to the media at the NFL owner’s meeting in Phoenix, Arizona, Haslam talked about his expectations and what he expects from head coach Kevin Stefanski.

“You all know how hard it is to win in the NFL… We certainly do. So I think everybody has a sense of urgency that we need to play well this year.” (via Cleveland dot com’s Mary Kay Cabot)

While Haslam did not give Stefanski an ultimatum to make the playoffs or he’d be fired, the owner added, “I don’t want to say that, but I think that we have expectations to go to the playoffs.”

The Browns and Stefanski are out of excuses. They rightfully moved on from Baker Mayfield, they no longer are starting a backup quarterback for 11 games and have plugged significant holes on their roster. They have a full offseason with their $230 million quarterback and all 17 games.

The time is now for the Browns.

https://brownswire.usatoday.com/202...medium=trueanthem&utm_source=twitter

j/c...

But which is which?

I post this in jest!

It's funny Stefanski happened to be there to greet OBJ when he stepped out of the car.

Greet or just terrible timing as he was waiting for an Uber?

Dee and Jimmy Haslam remain 'committed to redoing' FirstEnergy Stadium, upgrading City of Cleveland waterfront property
The Haslams said at the NFL Annual Meetings they remain committed to helping the City of Cleveland upgrade their waterfront property, which could include a renovation of FirstEnergy Stadium

Mar 28, 2023 at 04:40 PM
Employee Headshots on June 24, 2021
Anthony Poisal
Staff Writer

032823_HaslamStadium
PHOENIX — Dee and Jimmy Haslam said Monday at the NFL Annual Meetings they remain committed to upgrading the Browns' stadium — with the primary goal of renovating FirstEnergy Stadium in accordance with the City of Cleveland's plans to upgrade waterfront area between Lake Erie and downtown.
The Haslams, who have focused on upgrading the stadium since they became owners of the Browns in 2012, have remained in communication with Cleveland Mayor Justin Bibb and the city as plans for upgrading the waterfront come together.
"Cleveland would benefit tremendously from the development of the waterfront," Jimmy Haslam said. "Having the stadium down there seems to be in everybody's best interest, so we're committed to redoing the stadium. In all likelihood, it's not going to have a dome, but it'll be a substantial remodel of the existing facility, and we're probably three, four, five years away from that happening."
The Haslams expressed excitement for how the waterfront transformation would impact the city, which would benefit from having more attractions, businesses and community spaces located near the water.
"I think the mayor has a really good plan," Jimmy Haslam said. "He's working really hard. We're loving working with him and his team to put forth the best plan for Cleveland. And we want to be part of the story and help out any way we can. We believe it's critically important for the development of downtown to be an attractive city. The best cities in the country have great waterfronts, and I think it's really critical."
The Haslams and the city are currently in the process of building those plans based on community feedback, and they expect a more concrete plan to be built by the end of the year.
"I think it's a year-long phase," Dee Haslam said. "We're hoping to help out in any way we can. It's a long process, but I think they're doing it right because they want to make sure they have a lot of community input on how it works and what the community wants."
Once the city has a foundation for how it plans to renovate the waterfront area, the Browns will be able to make a stronger push forward for how they could upgrade FirstEnergy Stadium, which has served as the home of the Browns since the franchise returned to Cleveland in 1999.

"There's a lot of infrastructure that has to go into connecting downtown, which is the first thing that has to happen," Jimmy Haslam said. "We've got to connect downtown to the waterfront, right? Everybody knows that. So you've got to relocate the highway … I do think the city, the county and the state are working together well, but there's a lot of hoops to jump through."
The Haslams will continue to provide their full backing to the city throughout the process.
"I think we're just going to support the mayor and their plan," Dee Haslam said, "and I think whatever they ask us to do, we will. We'll be willing to help out in any way we can.

https://www.clevelandbrowns.com/new...-redoing-firstenergy-stadium-upgrading-c

I still believe that Jimmy and Dee Haslam are good owners. It may have taken a little while to learn and get used to it but they now seem to have straightened things out. No one can question their commitment to winning.

I think the dome is still a possibility, but the comment signals that is going to be up to the community to get done,not something he is going to spearhead.

I suppose he doesn't care enough to toss in X $millions more when he already has a place to play. Just fix that up. After that, it is up to the city and surrounding area to decide if they are happy with a partial use facility or want a full use facility on the lakefront. If the city and county(s) feel they can't get enough use the remainder of the year, then it doesn't make sense.

As for me I have said I want a dome, but recent health events make it clear my days of going to 7-8 games a year are nearing the end, so I suppose it doesn't matter much to me. No, I am not talking about kicking the bucket any time soon. Just getting and feeling older. The thrill of the trip just isn't as alluring as it once was. It just happens.

I wanted a dome also. Still do. If you want a shot at a Superbowl coming here, you'd need that.

j/c:

I am happy the signed Walker.

He is a respected leader. The kind of player needed on a team.

Former #Seahawks DT Al Woods is visiting the #Browns and #Jets this week, source said. One of the most durable and valuable DTs for the last several years.

Ian Rapoport

Woods could help. He is older, so it would probably be a 1 year contract w/a club option for the second year. He has size. Played the nose in Seattle's 3-4 D last year. Classic Interior D-linemen. We would probably line him up inside the guard and our other DT would line up outside the guard on the other side. His PFF grade was solid at 68.2, w/his run and pass grades being very close. I read a few articles from sites that cover the Seahawks. They were surprised by his release and wanted the Seattle to bring him back. His salary was not bad. Around $4.5 million last year. I still think we need to bring in one other starting IDL. If not, I suspect the Browns are projecting Winfrey as a starter. That could be risky.

That's some Bad news!

.

Yikes. I hope he is ok and it just a bad scare.

NOW I think we should trade for Tyreek Hill!

It can happen that quickly...snap your fingers and the depth the Browns thought they had ... it is suddenly gone!

Planning and preparing for a worst case scenario might seem like an impossible task but it should be a consideration when developing roster depth.

The only good thing about Woods situation is it happened in April, giving the Brown enough time to come up with a solution. Maybe the injury is not as bad as we think it might be...

I hope Woods is okay, but he wasn't a lock to make the roster.

He was not but he did have a fighting chance. This could kill that entirely if it pans out. Ugh.

Yeah, this sucks for him. I was actually rooting for him to be the 6th WR. I just brought that up because of mac's post.

I think that he had a high probability of making the 53 man roster and a lower probability that we take a WR in the Draft, (late round flyers excluded) but now I think that this injury will raise the probability for taking one in the Draft.

Hopefully Woods gets healed up and is ready to fight for a roster spot in that room for the 2024 season.

Yep. WR depth is suddenly all gone now and this is what did it.... A guy with 5 rec on 45 yards.

We're screwed.

In another thread I had predicted that either Bell or Woods gets the 6th WR spot on the roster and the other ends up on IR. Now I feel bad.

You should. It's your fault!

Just kidding.

j/c:

peen posted a link on the WR Room thread that states Woods is out for the season. Tough break for the kid. Luckily, we have quite a bit of depth. Also, it's good to hear Watson is working out w/at least one receiver. Maybe more????

Seems super cheap.

Great deal for the Browns. It's almost like that is a misprint.

Current Contract
Anthony Walker Jr. signed a 1 year, $1,232,500 contract with the Cleveland Browns, including a $152,500 signing bonus, $652,500 guaranteed, and an average annual salary of $1,232,500. In 2023, Walker Jr. will earn a base salary of $1,080,000 and a signing bonus of $152,500, while carrying a cap hit of $1,092,500 and a dead cap value of $652,500.

I hope he came back just to flatten the stooler that dove on him when he was injured last year.

Huge loss. Guys who can teach players to get fitter and stronger don’t grow on trees. It’s worse than letting Froholdt walk. I’m very miffed.

He was an assistant strength coach.


One positive is I found this random team report card while looking his information up. Nothing game breaking or anything. It is interesting to see the overall survey results from Browns players about the Browns staff and facilities.


Browns Team report card


Edit:

Here’s the rest of the league

All teams report cards

The Jets signed DL Quinton Jefferson.

It is expected to clear the way for the Browns to sign DL Al Woods.

Al Woods and Tomlinson would add serious beef up front. Both guys play the run very well.

We could have a good rotation working if we sign Woods.

All 700 lbs of them....lol

I still would prefer A'Shawn Robinson. He's far from a rookie, but he's still something like 8 years younger than Big Al.

I don't mind signing proven role players on one year deals.

We can draft a DT in the third or later and hopefully develop a guy.

My goal is to have a DL rotation to keep guys fresh. Nobody is Myles but Myles. As long as the others are effective Myles will have impact.

IMO there has been much discussion internally to address the DL. Schwartz must have had effective input.

Berry brought Tomlinson as the stud. The others are hopefuls. Guys who have some good tape but have had adversity.

There will be good competition at camp. That should help. The jobs last season were penciled in.

I like the changes so far in FA. We will have better starters and better depth.

It's not bad to have a goal where a rotation keeps players fresh.
The problem might be the Browns,
The team should focus on getting better play out of a small group instead of endlessly piling on more players.

No doubt Tomlinson was the big get. He is a proven "plus" player. He will be seen as a bust by some to many because he won't have a lot of sacks. The reality is that it is rare a DT gets a lot of sacks, and the ones they do get are usually mop up sacks. With him and some of the others we have brought in or that are already here, I am comfortable we will end up with 5 DT's who will be a big improvement over last season.

That would work great if there were no injuries in the NFL. Maybe that's why the NFL has a 53 man roster and why teams consistently work in upgrading not only their starters but work on upgrading the quality of their depth at all positions as well.

I agree w/you in general, but I think we need one more DT starter on this roster.

NRTU bone as I continue to appreciate your optimism...HOWEVER...

Why is it always that Myles needs others to be effective for him to have impact? He's perennially in the running for DPOY yet he has to have Robin(s) to be Batman. I don't read that for Watt, Bosa, Hendrickson et al...those being three guys off the top of my head who impact the game much more than does Myles.

Exactly. A FO should always be on the lookout for talent to upgrade the roster. Additionally, we should be on the lookout for developmental talent so we can replace aging players or players that may become too expensive. Talent evaluation and the acquiring of better players is a 365 day a year job. I really believe we have the right man for the job in Andrew Berry.

j/c:


Full article: https://sports.yahoo.com/myles-garr...nxbdjLKbQHa4ggHaFjh885wkByxdlUKYI6L8Zulw

There is more to being a perennial DPOY candidate than rushing the passer. There are also those pesky running plays and QB runs where Myles is 3-5 yards up-field looking only for the glory. Ask that head case Clowney about that. I simply expect more from cornerstone positions/players.

j/c:


Ranking the 25 best edge defenders from the 2022 NFL regular season

By Jonathon Macri
Feb 23, 2023


• Tight at the top: The top three players are separated by the thinnest of margins, with Myles Garrett leading the group for 2022.

• Pushing it to the Maxx: Maxx Crosby played more than any other player at his position and finished with a top-five rank as a dominant edge defender for all 1,000-plus of his snaps.

• A second-year breakout: Miami’s Jaelan Phillips emerged in Year 2, posting elite pass-rush metrics and ranking among the top run defenders at his position.

ESTIMATED READING TIME: 11 MINS

This list is based almost entirely on PFF’s final defensive grades for every edge defender during the 2022 regular season. The grades take into account every defensive snap played in every game. This list also allows for some wiggle room in the final rankings based on the number of snaps or games played but leans heavily into the final grades from the end of the regular season.

Keep in mind that sacks typically represent only a small percentage of snaps for an edge defender in a season compared to the quality of every single play, which the grades take into account, so not every NFL sack leader will be represented adjacent to their sack totals.



1. MYLES GARRETT, CLEVELAND BROWNS (92.5)
Sixteen sacks in 16 games combined with a league-leading 25.6% pass-rush win rate (min. 50% of pass-rush snaps) earned Garrett the best pass-rush grade in the league (93.5). This marks the second year in a row for Garrett as the league leader in pass-rush grade and is the primary reason he landed the top defensive grade in the league. Garrett also finished second in wins above replacement (0.58) for the position, behind only Maxx Crosby and his 1,000-plus defensive snaps.

2. MICAH PARSONS, DALLAS COWBOYS (91.6)
Parsons’ 90 total pressures were tied for the most in the league, and his 19.27% pressure rate was the highest at the position among those who played at least 50% of their team’s pass-rush snaps. Parsons’ dominance as a pass rusher during his rookie year was impossible to ignore, and he made the shift to a full-time edge role in Year 2, managing the second-highest pass-rush grade (92.1) and third-best win rate (22.9%) among qualifying edge defenders.

3. NICK BOSA, SAN FRANCISCO 49ERS (90.9)
The reigning Defensive Player of the Year tied with Micah Parsons for the league lead in total pressures (90), thanks to the second-highest win rate (24.8%) and the third-highest pass-rush grade (90.9) among qualifying edge defenders. Bosa not only led the NFL in sacks (18.5), but he also managed a top-five run-defense grade (81.1) among qualifying edge defenders, having not missed a single tackle against the run.

4. MAXX CROSBY, LAS VEGAS RAIDERS (90.1)
Crosby was the only defensive lineman in the NFL who played more than 1,000 defensive snaps in 2022, and he did so at an incredibly high level, earning a 90.0-plus overall grade for the second consecutive season. Crosby dominated as a pass rusher, with 12.5 sacks (tied for eighth) and 81 pressures (third), and did the same against the run, with an 82.5 run-defense grade that ranked third among qualifying edge defenders. As a result, Crosby generated more wins above replacement (0.62) than any other player at his position.

5. JAELAN PHILLIPS, MIAMI DOLPHINS (87.7)
Phillips broke out in his sophomore year with impressive grades, including an elite 89.8 pass-rush mark (sixth). The 2021 first-round pick played all 17 games and finished in the top 10 at his position in total pressures (70), run-defense grade (75.1) and PFF WAR (0.42). While Phillips actually recorded fewer sacks (seven) than in his rookie year (8.5), when considering his elite excellent underlying metrics, the best may be yet to come for the former Miami Hurricane.

6. JOSH SWEAT, PHILADELPHIA EAGLES (86.6)
While he didn’t get the same attention as teammate Haason Reddick and his 16 sacks among Eagles’ pass rushers, Sweat posted top-10 marks in both run-defense (80.5) and pass-rush grades (82.1) among qualifying edge defenders. He also generated a top-five run-stop rate (9.8%) with an average depth of tackle of 1.3 yards, which ranked tied for second among edge defenders with at least 50% of snaps played.

7. MONTEZ SWEAT, WASHINGTON COMMANDERS (86.4)
Continuing the conversation about edge defenders named Sweat who lead their position in average depth of tackle against the run, Montez Sweat posted the best mark at the position in 2022 (0.8 yards). Not only did Sweat finish with an 80.5 run-defense grade, which was seventh at the position, but he added another top-10 mark among qualifying edge defenders with a career-high 79.6 pass-rush grade.

8. DANIELLE HUNTER, MINNESOTA VIKINGS (86.3)
Hunter has now posted at least an 80.8 overall grade in each season he's played since 2019 after having not hit that mark in any of his four seasons prior. Concerns about Hunter’s durability heading into the year after he missed a season and a half were put to rest as he racked up a career-high 905 defensive snaps in 2022. Hunter’s 70 total pressures were tied for sixth most at the position, and he led all defensive linemen in pressures that resulted in a sack for his teammates (10).

9. TREY HENDRICKSON, CINCINNATI BENGALS (85.0)
Hendrickson has emerged as one of the better pass-rush specialists in the league over the past few seasons, improving his pass-rush grade every year since 2019. His most recent improvement landed him among the top five players at his position in terms of pass-rush grade, and while that didn’t translate into the sack production of others in that range, he still made a significant impact with 18 quarterback hits (fourth most among edge defenders) and a 17.03% pressure rate (eighth).

10. HAASON REDDICK, PHILADELPHIA EAGLES (81.1)
Reddick actually finished the year ranked 21st among edge defenders in overall grade but moves up significantly for the purpose of this list, considering his snap volume (816), his career year as a pass rusher and his league-leading six forced fumbles. Reddick earned a top-five pass-rush grade (90.0), posting 16 sacks and 68 total pressures — all career highs.

Where his ranking takes a hit is in run defense, where his 59.9 grade placed 35th at the position (min. 50% of run defense snaps). And his 32.3% missed tackle rate against the run ranked second worst among edge defenders. That being said, his impact solely as a pass rusher should be considered and is a big reason why he ranks 10th in PFF WAR at the position.

11. BRANDON GRAHAM, PHILADELPHIA EAGLES (89.8)
The 34-year-old hit double-digit sacks for the first time in his 13-year career and posted his best defensive grade since 2017. What moves Graham down this list is snap volume, as he shifted into more of a part-time role for the NFC champions and played less than 500 defensive snaps in a non-injury year for the first time since 2013. However, it shouldn’t be understated just how well Graham still performed, posting a top-eight pressure rate (17.14%), win rate (22.86%) and pass-rush grade (89.1) among qualifying edge defenders, keeping him in the top 12 here.

12. JOSH ALLEN, JACKSONVILLE JAGUARS (82.9)
Allen has consistently improved since being a top-10 pick back in 2019, most recently posting 82.0-plus grades in run defense and overall while adding a 79.4 pass-rush grade (17th). His impressive run-defense mark ranked second at the position among those who played at least 50% of their team’s run-defense snaps. Allen did all this while playing nearly 900 defensive snaps for the Jaguars — also a career high. That led to him being one of the most valuable players at his position, ranking sixth in PFF WAR (0.40).

13. VON MILLER, BUFFALO BILLS (85.8)
Miller had a chance to finish higher on this list if not for injury, but his season was cut short after just 11 games. Prior to the injury, Miller was having his best pass-rush year since his last All-Pro season in 2018. His 45 total pressures were tied for the eighth-most among edge defenders, while his 78.8 run-defense grade also ranked eighth through the first 12 weeks before his campaign ended.

14. GREGORY ROUSSEAU, BUFFALO BILLS (83.6)
Rousseau made great strides in Year 2, specifically as a pass rusher, improving his pass-rush grade to 82.7, which ranked among the top 12 edge defenders and helped him double his sack total from his rookie season. While Rousseau missed four games with injury, he was still able to post top-20 marks for the position in pressure rate (15.16%) and win rate (19.49%) — also significant improvements from his rookie year.

15. JOSH UCHE, NEW ENGLAND PATRIOTS (83.1)
Many would likely expect a different Patriot edge defender in this spot, but when it comes to the overall defensive grades, Uche outperformed Matthew Judon — specifically as a pass rusher, albeit on a smaller sample size. Judon’s 15.5 sacks shouldn’t be overlooked, but when it comes to every pass-rush snap played, Uche was more consistent, ranking fourth in win rate (23.68%), second in pressure rate (20.68%) and eighth in pass-rush grade (87.8). He added 11.5 sacks of his own on nearly 200 fewer pass-rush snaps than Judon.

16. JOHN FRANKLIN-MYERS, NEW YORK JETS (82.6)
Franklin-Myers is easily one of the more underrated defensive linemen in the league, having posted solid grades across the board in each of the past two seasons. While he doesn’t have flashy pass-rush numbers, never exceeding six sacks in a season, he has posted a minimum of 50 pressures and a 74.1 pass-rush grade in each of the past three years as a starter. He cracked the top 10 (min. 50% of snaps) as a run defender for his position this season, as well, earning a career-high 76.8 run-defense grade.

17. ZA’DARIUS SMITH, MINNESOTA VIKINGS (82.2)
One of the better Comeback Player of the Year candidates who didn’t quite get that particular attention during the year, Smith went from playing just 18 defensive snaps in an injury-derailed 2021 regular season to a resurgent year at age 30 with a new team in 2022. Smith got back to his double-digit sack ways with 10 and finished fourth among all edge defenders with 78 total pressures.

18. T.J. WATT, PITTSBURGH STEELERS (82.1)
Watt missed seven games in 2022 and didn’t quite get back into the groove that made him 2021’s Defensive Player of the Year, finishing the season with his lowest pass-rush grade (71.5) since his rookie year. Even without the strong underlying pass-rush metrics that he typically boasts, Watt still found a way to be productive, posting 5.5 sacks and 31 pressures on an 83% defensive snap share through 10 games.

19. RASHAN GARY, GREEN BAY PACKERS (82.9)
After a breakout year in 2021, Gary was looking like he could push to surpass his Year 3 totals before tearing his ACL in Week 9. Prior to the injury, he ranked among the top 10 edge defenders in pass-rush grade (83.0) and total pressures (38). His six sacks and 20.9% win rate also placed him among the top 15 players at his position. With a full recovery, Gary has a great shot to be higher on this list following the 2023 season.

20. DENICO AUTRY, TENNESSEE TITANS (82.8)
With Harold Landry out for the year, the Titans leaned heavily on Autry to power their defensive line, and he delivered with a career year across the board, including a 74.3 run-defense grade and a 75.0 pass-rush grade. Autry dealt with injuries of his own, missing five games, but still managed to play 66% of the team’s defensive snaps when he was active while ranking among the top 20 edge defenders in pressure rate (14.88%) and run-stop rate (8.9%).

21. AIDAN HUTCHINSON, DETROIT LIONS (80.7)
The second overall pick in the 2022 NFL Draft immediately became a significant contributor to the Lions’ defense, playing the second-most defensive snaps at the position (953) and thriving, posting a top-25 grade among edge defenders. Hutchinson totaled 9.5 sacks, 53 pressures (tied for 24th) and 22 run stops (sixth) on the year. His presence on this list after his rookie season should provide plenty of optimism that he can continue to surge as he develops in the NFL.

22. DEMARCUS LAWRENCE, DALLAS COWBOYS (78.1)
While not quite at the elite level that he’s been playing at in previous seasons, Lawrence continues to be a consistent threat off the edge as both a pass rusher and a run defender. Entering his 30s, a drop-off in pass-rush production wouldn’t be much of a surprise, but he still earned a 74.6 pass-rush grade (26th), which led to 55 total pressures (tied for 19th).

Lawrence remained dominant as a run defender, leading the position in run-stop rate (12.5%). He has landed among the top 10 in that metric in four of the past five seasons.

23. ALEX HIGHSMITH, PITTSBURGH STEELERS (78.0)
With T.J. Watt missing several games due to injury, Highsmith stepped up in a big way, playing a career-high 941 defensive snaps (fourth among edge defenders) and setting new highs in sacks (14.5) and pressures (55). Highsmith’s high sack total was good for sixth in the league, a significant reason that he cracks this list. His contributions outside of the sacks can be described as nothing less than solid, as he posted 70.0-plus grades in four of five defensive categories during his big Year 3.

24. ARDEN KEY, JACKSONVILLE JAGUARS (81.3)
Key ended up being Jacksonville’s second-most productive pass rusher, according to PFF’s pass-rush productivity model, which combines sacks, hits and hurries relative to how many times a player rushes the passer. His success comes even as the team spent the first overall pick on Travon Walker, who played significantly more snaps, and the Jaguars also leaned on Dawuane Smoot slightly more while he was in the lineup. Key still produced top-25 marks for the position in pressure rate (14.38%) and win rate (18.30%), landing 4.5 sacks as a pass-rush specialist.

25. CARL GRANDERSON, NEW ORLEANS SAINTS (80.4)
Granderson posted a career-high 5.5 sacks in 2022, but it wasn’t his pass-rush ability that landed him on this list. The former undrafted free agent out of Wyoming earned the highest run-defense grade at the position (min. 50% of run-defense snaps) with an 84.4 mark thanks to 24 run stops (fourth) and an 11.6% run-stop rate (second).

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-final-2022-edge-defender-rankings

Myles is just plain great no matter how you look at him.

There is not an advanced stat that he does not dominate.

This coming season should really bring it into focus. I can not remember seeing DT play as poor as last year.

It was embarrassing.

Jim Schwartz runs a heavy DL scheme. Gap integrity and pressure. A guy like Tomlinson will allow a 3 tech guy like Winfrey to penetrate. Myles can play to either side and work favorable match-ups.

I think we fall victim to just watching Myles and not the rest of the DL. It is a unit. They should play together. How the unit plays affects all aspects of the defense. That is why all the off season changes and additions to the defense.

I hope we sign Al Woods. That will allow a consistent rotation of at least one run stuffer. We can rotate on down and distance and change calls.

I am very optimistic about Jim Schwartz.

j/c…

Happy sailing!

Somehow it seems that on plays where the call is to rush the passer he thinks Myles should be in position to stop the run at the same time. Physics dictates that's impossible.

Adding to Vers, Bone, and your comments about Miles.

- there was a chart on here for DE efficiency during the season Miles’s charting was ridiculously better than others in the league, especially with being double teamed and I think his winning percentage off of that was crazy good.

- the dude is in DPOTY talk every year WHILE: coming back from COVID and using O2 after series to be able to breathe, two years ago I think he was playing with a bad groin injury to finish the season. Last year dude rolled a car, came back two weeks later(?) and played despite a shoulder injury and visible weakness when trying to grab the ball carriers.

It’s like watching prime Lebron James playing with a team of scrubs. Dude is out there doing all he can for the team and his body taking a beating…but he’s still on that court playing. I am not about to complain, because his 3pt percentage is subpar/average or because he throws a few passes away. He’s not the issue, the issue is the talent of his supporting cast around him.

Now off the field, his interviews…I will criticize that, lol.

Miles is the current Joe Thomas of our time when he was playing. An elite player on our team, and every so often a few would criticize something about him. And look what we all are now saying about JT - HOF and one of the best there ever was.

Myles is an elite talent no question. That's why we needed to get a player on the other side whom the O has to worry about so Myles can be even more effective. I think we got that player in Ogbo.

I tried posting a chart from a tweet in my first post on Myles today. I don't see it. I'll try again. If it doesn't work, I'll just post the address.



Didn't work. Try this.


https://twitter.com/SethWalder/status/1580583088924467200?s=20

Thanks Vers, that is what I was referring in my post

Sure, I'll take another. Various places say we are still looking around. I suspect we will bring in one more.

One last thing in regards to Myles.

He gets held more than anyone I have seen. Ref's rarely call it as well. Hard to figure why they don't call it?

I am talking about obvious holding.

He still impacts plays.

Better tackle play will help IMO.

Agreed Bone along with a better edge rusher on the other side. I think we took care of that in FA with Ogbo.

Perhaps, it's countless number of NFL plays that look just like this:

https://scontent-atl3-2.xx.fbcdn.ne...ilAHaz1MB3BUootBbMC-7yRA&oe=6437312D

Pretty sure that this is why, Bro.

Crap like this happens multiple times per game/every single game.
And often, they happen with double teams doing it on Myles. Right in front of the refs.

It's actually been a real thing since 95 entered the league.


What CLE games have you been watching?

It blows my mind Clem.

Because just like the photo the ref is right there looking. It happens all the time.

And the NFL rules to "Not" replay qb hits???

When in some case it looks the qb is being hit by nothing but air.

I haven't missed watching a Browns game since I don't know when. I see the BS non-calls on Myles. I see the double-teams. I see that the guy is a stud and a freak of nature. I see a guy who is clearly more interested in the sack than anything else. I rarely see the guy make a game changing play...let alone a series-ending play. He's essentially a pass-rushing specialist...I simply expect more from a perennial DPOY candidate.

Just a thought. I wonder if that helmet incident has the ref's showing some animosity towards MG. Let's face it, we are the Cleveland Browns!!!

I've got a great set-up in my office. (9) TVs...we watch up to (6) games at a time (4 DTV and 2 antennae)...lots of Browns and non-Browns fans attend regularly. Even the regular, non-Browns fans comment frequently on how the team gets the shaft at an amazing pace. The comment after a good-great Browns play is often "Wait for it!" They notice the BS calls on Myles as well.

Note: giving Cleveland, the state of ohio sports teams, or the Browns specifically,, giving them a raw deal did NOT start with the Myles Garrett helmet and Pittsburgh back up @uarterback incident, and largely has nothing to do with it since then.
They've always given
Ohio sports teams
and the Browns
and Cleveland a raw deal,
and it continues.

There is validity to it. We're not imagining or fabricating this stuff.

If anyone would know whether his skills were diminishing it would be the coaching staff who has worked with him on a daily bass.

I find it difficult to believe anyone on the team actually told Terry they thought he was "slipping in speed". At most they may say they have no intention of signing him, but I doubt they give any details.

I don't always agree with Terry's position, but I've never known him to make something up.

Going into the 2022 season I really expected Hunt to have a big year in total yardage.

However, as the season progressed it was clear Hunt did not have his previous explosiveness. I didn't see him hitting the hole like in the past.

In fact I was for trading him.

IMO Ford will do just fine. I do think we need to draft a back.

I have nothing in regards to looking at this draft really. I watched a few receivers and a couple of rushers.

But this year I will wait till the draft is over then go look at them.

I think that he said what we were all thinking anyways.


My problem is understanding the resaons why, because he has hardly been over used while with he was with us and he is only 27 ... so I think that some of his injuries and his running style might have prematurely effected his loss of burst.

I don't buy that Hunt lost a step. PERIOD.

He didn't lose a step. He lost 2 steps...

He's toast - running style (never avoid contact) and injuries have rendered him ineffective. Time to move on...

j/c...

This is part of the mess that Joe Woods left behind. He should have never been moved to the slot.

Well, if he didn't lose a step, he lost something.

I liked the guy, and he may still have something, but GM's know what is going on with backs. They have about 5-6 good years. There aren't many Fred Taylors or Water Peytons who just keep on going.

It's why I keep saying that we probably won't sign Chubb to another contract. Maybe extend him a year. Backs are like tires. You might buy 60,000 mile tires, but after 45,000, you are bouncing all over the road. You don't want to keep driving them until that blowout on I 75* or you bounce in to a ditch on some back road.

* Call it whatever interstate you run the most. For me it is I 75. Call it 71, 40, 10, 59...whatever

Brad Stainbrook posted something about Newsome wanting out, then had to retract after Newsome publicly said no, he didn't want one. Stainbrook apologized saying he didn't know why his sources told him otherwise.

I think something is there but it might not that bad at this point. Rosenhaus flying to Cleveland just after signing Newsome is interesting.

My opinion is since there seems to be no real interest in Hunt league wide that speaks for itself. And you are certainly correct in the average expectancy of an NFL RB performing at peak production being short.

If it were just the Browns not deciding to re-sign him and others in the league pursuing him my opinion may be different. But what we are seeing makes it very hard for anyone to make the argument he is still as good as he once was. Well, almost anyone.

It makes sense to me that a player would want to know what his role will be in a new system. Somehow I think some reporting this read more into it than that.

I love hunt, but he has been an ok player the last two years... his 2020 season was on fire... he's been solid, but I can appreciate if we want to move on and find younger talent...

Hunt might have lost some speed, but the main reason for moving on from Hunt is to give the other RBs an opportunity to prove themselves, especially Ford and Felton.

That could be it. I am no football strategist or analyst, but watching the last 2 years, he seems to have a lot of carries that end up as TFL or 1-2 yd gains. I watch all from TV so it is hard to really know the issue. Hopefully his replacements can handle Hunt's duties well.

The lack of interest in Hunt is a very telling and accurate
Example of how much the league is very much a passing league.
Want to get to the SB. Throw the ball well downfield.
For years and years all we heard we how the Browns had
The best RB tandem in the NFL.
Well how far did that get the Browns .?nowhere. No division titles.
Hunt will land somewhere. But it make take a injury.
It's better to have a loaded WR room than a RB room.
I think Berry finally got the memo

I think you touched on part of the reason but not quite all of it. Yes the NFL has become much more of a passing league. Yet at the same time you must be able to run the ball to keep the opposing defense on its heels to some extent. You can't simply allow them to sit back and ignore defending the run.

But what happens is that when you have a great QB and a very proficient passing game, you don't need someone like Nick Chubb to successfully run the ball. The opposing defense will still play pass heavy defense yet still have to account for the run. You do however still need a RB with a solid skill set and ability to be productive. If Hunt hadn't lost a step his services would still garner a lot of attention. He would still be sought after. It's not as though he would be cost prohibitive.

Andrew Berry might want to start drafting mature DTs for
The foreseeable future. Berry might be OK at contract extensions
Trades etc but he really cannot draft to save his life.

Here's a pic of everyone that's surprised by this.












..





..

It doesn't sound all that serious, BUT...the guy seems to always have something....like he follows trouble around.

The guy might have potential, but he might be more trouble than it is worth. At this point I wouldn't count on him for anything.

If we were starting to think we might be OK at DT, we might want to revisit that thought. Some of these guys have all the physical traits in the world, but so does a gorilla. They have brains, but just aren't all that smart.

There comes a point where you might just want to say "Good Luck".

Neeeds to grow up and become responsible for his actions. He's got talent and could be a good solid player for us; if he grows up!

This kind of stuff makes you crazy.

Of course we do not know what happened.

All we know is it should not happen.

The guy who is in deep trouble who you would not think of getting into trouble is Willie McGinest.

But hell life happens and people do things they will regret.

I was hoping Winfrey had matured and that was the reason we haven't signed another starting DT. I'll wait for more info, but given what happened last year......

There is a reason he dropped in the draft. So he was a crap shoot.

In his defense it appears he grabbed the woman and probably left bruises on her arm - probably someone looking for a pay day. Guy has to understand how strong he is we will see where this goes hopefully no suspensions involved.

I read something about the girl being someone he was dating. That is all I heard about that. Could be a HS sweetheart he has dated for years, could be a 1st or 2nd date or anything in between. I think I saw/heard this somewhere other than the article link I posted below but not exactly sure. I only posted the headline because the actual article requiresa subscription and I do not have one. Interestedly, the title of this article suggests that it night be a girl he previously dated but is not currently. What I saw did not give me that impression at all.


https://www.cleveland.com/browns/20...edly-injuring-someone-he-was-dating.html
Browns DT Perrion Winfrey arrested on misdemeanor assault charge involving a woman he was dating

j/c...

The House Bill 6 scandal was too much.

Did he at least get a massage..lol

Haha!

It's going to be a minute before Browns fans can get indignant about ANY player's off-field transgressions

One of the things I liked best about our team was the lack of corporate sponsorship.
It's nice to see us return to the Original Recipe.

Yep. Let's hope it stays that way.

The First Energy rights were about 10M per year. There is ample opportunity between naming the entrances, the club sections, the suites, etc, etc... to forego the stadium naming rights.

I believe this is wishful thinking and they will get a sponsor for the stadium sooner rather than later. Remember, this is a new stadium/renovations in the works. Every penny counts.

You don't give up $10 million/year unless you have a plan to replace that income with even more.

It's just as possible they were looking for more than 10 mil per year for the naming rights and First Energy wasn't willing to comply. I think back to Haslam's first press conference after he purchased the Browns. In that press conference he said, "It's a marketing world". NFL teams have to wait a minimum of five years to change primary uniforms and Haslam has made sure to use that minimum timeline to maximize sales in that regard.

Now don't get me wrong, I think any smart businessperson would do the same thing. The NFL after all is big business. But maximizing profits is the goal for someone with such a huge investment. That's why I would tend to lean toward Haslam finding anew stadium sponsor that's willing to pony up more cash.

What I found claims First Energy paid 6 mil. per year and there was some pressure on The Browns to drop them as a sponsor. How much that played into this is anyone's guess.................

Cleveland Browns end FirstEnergy stadium naming rights deal

The venue partnership wasn't due to expire until 2029.

The National Football League’s (NFL) Cleveland Browns have terminated their stadium naming rights partnership with FirstEnergy.
Confirmed:

Venue returns to ‘Cleveland Browns Stadium’ name
Deal wasn’t due to expire until 2029
Browns describe early end to partnership as “amicable”

Context:

FirstEnergy had served as stadium naming rights partner since 2013, in a deal worth a reported US$6 million a year. The Browns have been under pressure to cut ties with the electric services company after it admitted its role in paying bribes to Ohio lawmakers.

Comment:

“We’ve had a great association with FirstEnergy for more than two decades, and we appreciate this partnership and what it has created for our team and the broader northeast Ohio community,” said Dave Jenkins, Haslam Sports Group’s chief operating officer.

“We reached this amicable agreement that is consistent with the productive relationship we have always enjoyed, and we wish FirstEnergy success with their future initiatives.”

Coming next:

The Browns’ owners have said they are “committed” to renovating the team’s stadium in the upcoming years, which would likely pave the way for a new naming rights deal.

https://www.sportspromedia.com/news...ts-deal-terminated/?zephr_sso_ott=tjdI4I

https://scontent-ord5-2.xx.fbcdn.ne...A9pEbipSRmRIE6uU2eCssMwg&oe=643F1A2D

Oh, I have no doubt they will and it was 100% wishful thinking.

I won't even get out of bed for $10M

Bro- your bedsores must hurt something awful!

It's a tough life...

My only question would be ... what took them so long?!

Me too...he was hurt a lot last year if I remember correctly. I like him and am surprised no one else picked him up. Maybe we were waiting on some injury rehab?

Good move. He's versatile. He came in a lot when we went "Heavy" as an extra blocker. I like him better than Froholdt.

I don't know about injuries, but we do know what we are getting as far as a player goes with Dunn and we've seen him fill in acceptably at OG and OC. Harris is a OC only ... Forbes on the other hand is still an unkown commodity for the sake of a lack of opportunities and Martin is JAG imo.

Maybe they should call Charmin, cause that’s how we’ve played for years

I was thinking more like exlax.. You start the day thinking good things, but by the end your running for the crapper.

Don't know if this is the right thread for this. I hope the stadium renovation includes a retractable roof.

It will NOT. Did enough reading to establish the fact that the weight of the unit alone makes it a near-impossibility... That possibility only exists if the current stadium is demolished, the foundation "beefed up", and a new stadium built in it's place. There is no way to retrofit the current foundation and "bones" of the current stadium to allow for a roof.

"Historians note that Cleveland Browns Stadium was built on the foundations of the 1931-built Municipal Stadium, and that foundation reportedly consisted of driving utility poles into the landfill of reclaimed lake bed. Expanding the stadium and its concourses outward will likely require additional foundations to support the weight. However, no dome or even a retractable roof is apparently being considered due to the expense and additional weight, the sources said."

Thanks for the info Fate!

Nice to see so many veterans there. Chubb's not, but no one can doubt his work ethic.

Games are won and lost in the off season preparation. This is really good news to Browns fans!

I'm really happy Dobbs is back with this team.

I can shrug off Chubb and Bitonio, a little surprised by Tomlinson being absent.

Nice turnout!

AB Press Conference is going live and should be accessible here:

J/c

I said this elsewhere, but I’m growing tired of seeing Winfrey in the press for the wrong stuff

I had NFL Live on today. I have come to the conclusion that the people who are on there don't know a thing about the Browns.

Mina Kimes might be a nice person and all but if you look at her Wikipedia. I do not get where she is all of a sudden an expert analyst.

These shows cover the hot topics. It has become a "how can we entertain you variety show business format."

I don't think they know anymore than than the posters on the Board. They for sure don't the Browns.

They will pencil the Browns in for third or fourth place. They have no clue about how DW will play. Don't know a thing about the defense.

I mean I understand. Sure I would look at the Bengals first. But with the Lamar situation and where the Steelers are. And the questions surrounding the Browns. The North is unknown except for the Bengals.

I think you pretty much covered it but not so much the way you think you might have. You're correct that they don't really know much about the Browns. But then who does? It's an entire new D that none of us have ever seen before with a lot of new pieces to the puzzle. The only thing anyone has seen in terms of this offense is watson struggling for six games and if you look at Brissett's first six starts of the 2022 season compared with watson's 6 starts it would be hard to argue that Brissett didn't perform better. Is that any kind of sign for the future? No it's not. But what else would you expect others outside of Browns fans to conclude based on the evidence at hand?

Now don't get me wrong. That doesn't mean bad times are ahead for the Browns. But for most people outside the Browns fandom zone, you are who you are until you're not. And that applies to almost every team and everybody. I'm not sure how or why anyone would or should expect things to be any different than that.

Honestly, I have no expectations when it comes to coverage of the NFL.

The coverage is show business.

The reality is there are so many factors at play and the talent is so evenly spread through the league that whole "prediction game" that is played on all the NFL media coverage is comical.

You play the games and see what happens.

after your first conclusion I was laughing in agreement.
2nd. ... "blank is a nice person and all but", I love that expression

Maybe Arm and Hammer can sponsor the stadium with their name.

I respectfully disagree. Mina Kimes is extremely knowledgeable. She does deep dives into analytics and advanced stats. I could actually see her being a great asset to a team's FO that values analytics.

On the other hand, I think most of our posters know next to nothing about the game. I see posts regarding QB play, coaching, schemes, play calling, etc that are far beyond ignorant.

Thank God you came back to save us all!

j/c:

Not sure where to put this and I didn't want to start a new thread.

j/c:



Not a shocker as I think many assumed this would happen.

Glad he is staying, but I was hoping we could reach a multi-year deal that would be financially friendly for the team.

I was as well. I am not sure how much flexibility a team has concerning the option, but it might still happen.

I anticipated us picking up the option. Now it’s in his court about beyond that

Expected.

He is a young player who had to make a position change while learning to be a NFL player.

Drafting this giant Jones and Holmes before will provide competition. It will be up to Wills to continue to improve his craft.

This is a big year for him to show management that he is the future.

Agreed. We had no choice but to pick up his option. However Wills has played the last few years we, at this time, have no one better to put at LT.

j/c:

Apparently, Nathan Zegura said the Browns tried to trade for RB D'Andre Swift.

Wills is proof that you can be a lazy half stepping OT and still get paid.

I don't get this take. Dude had an ankle injury for the past two years

I don't get your take ... Is it wrong to have higher expectations from a player with his traits and skill set, being selected with the 10th overall pick in the Draft?

The past two years my big toe.

I’m not surprised that we were in on Swift

Yeah, his salary is low and Detroit only got a 4th for him.

We’ll most likely sign another RB that will be Chubb’s backup and get 30% of the carries. Drake, Fournette, etc. someone who fits our offense

See, that's something I thought the Browns had covered. D’Ernest Johnson had proven he could fill that role. The only true sample size we had to look at was 2021. He had a total of 100 carries for 534 yards. 5.3 yards per carry. He had three rushing TD's and 19 receptions. I thought that eventually Hunt would be let go and Johnson would step right into his shoes. For some reason that simply didn't happen and I have no idea as to why.

For whatever reason our staff doesn’t love Johnson’s game. That’s apparent … he gets little chance unless it’s an injury situation. You wonder if it’s blocking, intelligence, etc

Yeah, as fans we only know a small portion of the big picture. And looking at it from a statistical perspective that's the conclusion I drew. But Johnson signed with the Jaguars back in March so obviously the Browns had other plans.

I agree.

Not sure why we kicked DErnie to the curb. I thought he played well when given the chance.

Yeah he really did. One of those situations where the coaches’ knowledge of a player or situation is much deeper than ours as fans

We didn't kick him at all. His contract was up, and he wanted to play more often, so he went elsewhere.

I expect Jerome Ford to step into the backup RB slot...

Not a very positive outlook for our Browns.

NFL power rankings: Steelers, Seahawks rise while Patriots, Raiders drop after 2023 draft; Ravens recover with Lamar Jackson
Vinnie Iyer 2 hours ago 9 min read.

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl...rs-patriots/pmkxqudlixhu7hiz8d2rucyn?utm


18. Cleveland Browns (12)

The Browns had limited draft capital after the Deshaun Watson trade and focused on some depth for his receiving corps and taking care of defense. Based on the competition in the North, however, they look like a fourth-place team.

Translation: Vinnie Iyer from the Sporting News thinks the Browns suck and will finish last in our division. He has the Bengals as the 3rd best team in the land and Steelers and Ravens at 13 and 14. Obviously, in his world, the Bengals will run way with the division and the Cleveland will be the North's whippin' post.

The value of Power Rankings before Week 8 is about three notches lower than your daily racing form at Thistledown.

In conclusion everybody knows nothing.

People love to predict. One of the reasons is nobody is ever accountable.

Predict the draft. Predict who will reach the playoffs. Predict who will win the Super Bowl. Each week predict the games. There are so many predictions that just by law of averages someone should be right. Kind of like the lottery.

Myself I am out of the prediction business. Nobody would care if I happened to be right. It would only prove I was lucky.

We have a team that should compete. The North has good teams. The Steelers probably have the biggest question because we just don't know enough about Pickett yet. Ravens, Browns and Bengals all have quarterbacks capable of winning.

I would not care if every outlet in all the media predicted that the Browns would win the Super Bowl this year. Or, predicted that we would lose every game.

Play the games.

Yet at the same time you have posters who bolster every good prediction and attack every bad one. Not saying that's you. There are so many self proclaimed talking heads these days it's hard to wade through it. I think some be taken seriously even when we all know they won't always be right. They just know the game and have sound reasoning for their opinions. And some just throw out crap as click bait or strictly to cater to a particular fan base. Everybody is on Twitter these days being some self proclaimed expert. And it seems the trend is to give validity to those people believe and like what they say and trash those who don't.

It gets harder to wade through the muck as time has gone on.

I have no problem w/predictions. They can be fun. I'm not dumb enough to let them guide my thinking, so I take them for what they are. Entertainment while discussing the sport you are following. Personally, I don't make a ton of predictions. That's just not my thing, but it doesn't bother me if others do.

McLeod is old, but he is a solid signing at this point in time. He had a good year last year in Indy and earned a PFF grade of 80.1.

That is some good news.

I agree. I think many fans treat players as if they are fantasy draft players. IT is almost as if they look at stats, and just assume he fits a position, regardless of the type of offense and defense the team plans to implement.

While I agree with that to some extent, in the case of players like D'Ernest Johnson we actually saw him on the field of play with which to help determine how valuable he was on the field.

Rodney McLeod IS SMART and EXPERIENCED at playing the defensive scheme that the Browns defensive coordinator Schwartz wants to play.

Looks like AB is working with JS to get the players he needs and wants. Good conscious effort to improve the D. Working together to bring a winner here!! That's what we need!!!

The Browns needed to add another safety after not taking one in the draft. Good depth signing.

Agreed...they needed a viable option at 3rd safety, and a long tenured veteran like McCloud fits the need. With his experience in various roles and fronts, I'm hopeful he can pass along some tutelage to the young core...Will only be a benefit to the locker room, and that's something we lacked last year.

The ubiquitous "veteran that knows the new coordinator scheme, but will probably be the backup" signing.

How much of a "backup role" McLeod plays will be determined by Schwartz.

McLeod started 15 games for the Colts last season...clearly not playing "a backup role".


Browns agree to terms with S Rodney McLeod on 1-year deal

TOM WITHERSAP
link
CLEVELAND (AP) — The Cleveland Browns added needed experience and depth to their secondary Thursday, agreeing on a one-year contract with veteran free agent safety Rodney McLeod.

The 32-year-old McLeod has started 138 games in his NFL career. He spent last season with Indianapolis, finishing with 96 tackles, eight pass breakups and two interceptions, returning one for a touchdown.

Terms of McLeod's deal were not immediately known.

With Cleveland, McLeod will be reunited with defensive coordinator Jim Schwartz, who was hired in the offseason to fix a unit that woefully underperformed last season. McLeod and Schwartz won a Super Bowl together with Philadelphia in the 2017 season.

McLeod played six seasons with the Eagles after breaking in and spending four seasons with the Rams.

NFL Draft Hub: Latest NFL Draft mock drafts, news, live picks, grades and analysis

McLeod's familiarity with Schwartz and his system will be a major asset to the Browns. He'll also fit in nicely with expected starters Grant Delpit and Juan Thornhill, who signed as a free agent after winning the Super Bowl with Kansas City.

McLeod has played both strong and free safety.

___

AP NFL: and

Strikes me as a smart move. A luxury in some ways. Knows this defense as played; he can help explain and implement what I fervently hope will be a more aggressive D. He can be added as an extra onto the field as an extra cover in multiple positions. He can help assure correct communications are made onto the field. And he can play, so he pushes some of last year's lagging achievements. This add bumps up a "smart bar" pushing individuals to a higher standard. Feel better about this D changing for the better.

He is almost certainly going to be a backup, but that doesn't mean it isn't a really good move. Like Milk said, we needed that third safety after the departure of Harrison. Personally, I think Delpit sucks in coverage and I am not sure he deserves to be handed the starting job. However, he was Berry's high draft choice and I doubt he has to compete for the starting gig. I will say that Delpit can be a lot better if we just play him at SS and that is a possibility now that Thornhill is here.

This move probably ends Hickman's chances of making the team.

I think he has a fairly good chance to start. Both Delpit and the other Thornhill will probably start, but if they start screwing up, you never know. There is something to be said for a coordinator to know his safety in the middle has everybody on the same page.

Safety is one of the few positions where experience trumps raw talent, at least to a reasonable degree. If nothing else, Mcleod adds something to the room. Not unlike having a Jim Leonard in the room or a Ken Dorsey in the QB room. They may not change games in to wins, but they aren't going to lose you games either.

Maybe call him a player coach. The other guys did that, and both became very good coaches after they stopped playing. It's where the guardrails can indeed expand. You don't build teams with players like that, but you can finish a team with players like that.

We are by and large built, so adding the finishing touches is the proper move.

I never understood why they don't swap out safeties or CBs to let them catch their breath like they do with DL.

Ward gassed vs Green or Emmerson at 100% can't be that much different. The bonus would be that Ward would have time to recover.

Can't do that. The threat of a big play is just too great. Also, those guys are almost always in way better shape than guys on the DL.

Why not? They do it on Offense with WRs, TEs, and RBs.

Because putting a backup corners on guys elite WRs who can run like the wind can lead to an instant 6 pts in a blink of the eye.

Ok[video:youtube][/video]

6'1" / 245 / 29 years old. Originally drafted by the San Francisco 49ers in the sixth round of the 2017 NFL Draft.

This is a good time to buy as players begin to panic over not being signed.

Another good period to search for talent will be after the last cuts, just before the regular season starts.

Agreed. We picked up some decent LB's on the fly last year to fill injured guys. They played well for us. I'm sure we can get a few before TC.

There are a lot of really good players still available. Especially on the DL--both Edge and Interior.

This from a mid-March but here its PFF's reaction to the first couple of days of Browns' FA.

How much of the Browns really good ranking in pass defense in 2022 was due to teams being able to run over the Browns defensive line,
meaning that if they didn't have to pass the ball, they didn't need to,
so it inflates how your defense looked against the pass because teams were content to run instead.

I have always felt that your rankings could be a result of either poor play at one method, or even on offense successful running reducing your dependency on passing. Also passing so well you have leads late and run the ball to run clock in the 4th quarter.

June 1st, and additional cap space to play with, is just around the corner.

I thought this was pretty pretty interesting.

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-power-rankings-chiefs-eagles-jets-2023-nfl-draft


Post draft PFF rankings the Browns rise up from 21 to 9th.

Ahead of the Ravens. Bravo.

I guess they liked what changes have happened.

That is true. The pass defense numbers were inflated because the run defense was so poor. But how many more sacks would Myles Garrett have gotten if the run was stopped? If the other teams' offenses were in more predictable downs and distances? How many more turnovers would have been caused strip sacks, rushed passes being picked off, etc.... Running the ball and stopping the run. It is still the fundamentals of the game. When a team can run the ball, it forces the defense to place another defender in the box, it causes the pass rush to be a step slower reacting to the play action, etc... Opens up the passing game! On defense when a team stops the run the defense puts the offense in predictable scenarios and allows the pass rush to tee off, forces more mistakes by the offense, etc... I feel that is where the Steelers and Ravens have been better than the Browns for most of the time this team has been back in existence. They have had better QB play also but their running game and run defense has been superior most years since 1999. If the run defense is fixed, I expect to see a much-improved team. A defense that can get off the field, time of possession in the Browns favor, and winning the turnover battle.

j/c…

Thanks for the memories, Ben!

Nice move by Berry. Browns needed another veteran pass rusher and they got him.

PFF grade last year was 82.2

Woah. Could be a steal!

Wow!

This is huge!

I'm starting to get sick of these PFF grades and how its taken as GOD's truth of a players worth.
What happened to film. And talking of full games not just Hi-Lites.

How can we have good Pure football discussion when all you got to do is put up the PFF grade and say - there you go what else do you need to know.
I want to see his first step and how does it compare with Garretts.

jmho

What makes you think they don't look at film? Or that they only look at highlights?

What are you talking about and just who are "THEY" I'm talking about us as posters it use to be we would get good links for film and back our opinions with that now its PFF grades.

What I'm saying is I don't want the grade but the data that got them to that GRADE. Sorry if I rained on your parade somehow???

"They" is PFF who you referenced. It's a bit hyperbole that it is taken as god's truth as many people here question it. I think disagreeing with the grades and knowing how they grade are two important distinctions.

Haha....rain on my parade? EO, that would be impossible for you to do.

On paper our DL is much improved. let’s hope it shakes out that way

I guess my question about PFF's grade is: How are they qualified to evaluate a player's performance?
How are these guys doing the PFF grades any different than a dozen of us getting together and coming up with the grades?

WHO IS DOING THE GRADING?
PFF employs over 600 full or part-time analysts, but less than 10% of analysts are trained to the level that they can grade plays. Only the top two to three percent of analysts are on the team of “senior analysts” in charge of finalizing each grade after review. Our graders have been training for months, and sometimes years, in order to learn, understand and show mastery of our process that includes our 300-page training manual and video playbook. We have analysts from all walks of life, including former players, coaches and scouts. We don’t care if you played.
https://www.pff.com/grades

Not enough qualified individuals doing the grading and the comment, "we don't care if you played"... emphasizes what a lack of professionalism PFF operates by.

j/c
Prior to Smith trade, Browns roster ranked worst in the AFC North

Browns have a lot to prove going into 2023 after Andrew Berry’s busy offseason

The Cleveland Browns were obviously unhappy with their defense last year. It started with the firing of DC Joe Woods immediately after the season ended and continued through free agency, the NFL draft and this weekend’s (reported not official yet) trade for DE Za’Darius Smith.

The defense, along with the putrid play (based on his past, expectations and trade/contract compensation) of QB Deshaun Watson led to a last-place finish, a full two games behind the Pittsburgh Steelers, in the AFC North.

Despite that, Pro Football Focus ranked the Browns No. 9 in their power rankings last week. With the Cincinnati Bengals the top-ranked team in the AFC North and the Baltimore Ravens one spot behind Cleveland, three of the four teams in the division were ranked in the top 10.

Somehow, PFF’s newest ranking, looking only at the team’s roster, has a different order with the Browns having the worst roster in the division at No. 14. Published before the Smith trade, it is interesting to note where they saw the team’s biggest weakness:

Biggest weakness in 2023: Defensive Line

Aside from Myles Garrett and Dalvin Tomlinson, there isn’t a ton of depth on the Browns’ defensive line following Jadeveon Clowney‘s departure. The Browns will look for players like Ogbonnia Okoronkwo and rookies Isaiah McGuire and Siaki Ika to step up and take some of the pressure off their star defenders.

As we shared through a FanShot, PFF is high on the Smith acquisition so maybe the Cleveland roster would be able to catch up to the Steelers (12) or Ravens (8). The Bengals are ranked as the third-best roster in the NFL.

While different authors were in charge of this ranking and the power rankings, it is interesting to see the difference between the two. For Browns fans, concern remains with HC Kevin Stefanski and Watson’s return to greatness. PFF notes Watson in their “X-Factor” section of the roster rankings and takes the under on 8.5 wins for the team this season.

Cleveland has a lot to prove on the field before respect will be earned at a national level. With talented teams in the division and conference as a whole, 2023 will be a slugfest. Many Browns fans think the roster is ready for it but PFF wasn’t buying in before the Smith deal.

https://www.dawgsbynature.com/2023/...Ych64ltP5AoeVxfMatkRWAmZ12zkGXYfJ4YB2taw

Rankings such as this are totally subjective and total BS.

Wins and Losses matter.

PFF is credible. However, it is not all knowing.

Tab is right there is are many subtle things that can not be put into analysis.

Rankings are something the media loves to do especially at this time. It is a way to stimulate discussion and interest during the off season.

Does it mean much? No.

There are so many factors at play that trying to rank teams and predict records is nothing more than a fun exercise.

We do not know how teams will play until we see them play. Rosters change. There are coaching changes. Players improve and decline. Injuries lurk waiting to disrupt seasons.

Rankings lean heavy on last years results.

The Bengals are a good team. Their record against the Browns. Not so good. When we play division games you can flip a coin and predict as well as any analyst.

When the schedule came out. I looked at it and thought that there was one game we should win. We should be the Texans. The rest I thought could go either way. There have been so many times that we have played when we were "favored" and got beat. I gave up predicting.

When a game begins anymore. I just cross my fingers.

What I find amusing with the PFF grades is that when it's a good grade (aka Garrett, Cooper and Chubb) we have posters on this forum swearing the legitimacy of the grade yet when it's a poor grade (aka Watson, Wills and Ward) the grades suddenly become subjective and total BS.

So you're saying it's the same posters on both sides? Otherwise your "muse" makes no sense.

Brandon Little

@BrandonLittleFB
#Browns are one of two teams that have a good chance at landing RB Ezekiel Elliott, per report


Don’t love that

Honestly wouldn't mind him for short yardage situations and pass pro if the money is not bad. Would fit in with the diversity of skillsets approach we've heard about at WR.

If you go to Brandon Little’s tweet it links to his Fan Sided website where he is aggregating this Zeke rumor from Sportskeeda. The Zeke rumor was started by some dude in CT named Robert Gullo who has 33 followers on Twitter and writes a blog on Sportskeed.

It’s a non-story.

Have the worst LB group in the NFL but sure let's keep adding DB's

j/c:



Cool little graphic. Of all the rookies I could see Ika replace Elliot or they might still add a veteran to the interior. Could see a lot more CBs too with Emerson subtracting Takitaki (or other LB) as well.

Yeah, I don't see much sense signing him. I suppose on a vet minimum or something like that but I'd also like to see what we have in some of these younger guys too. Namely Ford.

Zeke has been rode hard and put away wet. He has endured a lot of punishment. I don't see any upside at all in signing him.

Agreed, PFF is credible. Dawgs by Nature is not.

The article referenced was by Dawgs By Nature.

As each day passes and more positives come out from PFF about the moves the Browns have made.

Other media outlets are starting to pick up on it. By the time camp starts and pre-season games begin. IMO The Browns will start to get this "dark horse" label.

Of course the big if will be DW. But when reports start coming out about how sharp he looks. There will be a buzz about the Browns.

I am going to be in wait and see mode because I have to see the defense. I am pretty confident about the offense.

You do realize they were quoting PFF's rankings, correct?

I could see taking a year flyer on him... granted he had his worst year last year but still had over 800 yards and 12 TDs...

I'd prefer we look at our younger guys and see if someone can develop into a solid #2... but I can understand if why we'd take a look at Zeke...

Two PFF guys have the Browns making the playoffs and the Ravens not making it.

https://www.yardbarker.com/nfl/arti...rowns_to_make_playoffs/s1_16697_38824165

Interesting is that is based upon DW rating at 75.

"This is interesting because according to their grading, Jacoby Brissett graded out with a 76.3 overall grade. So if Watson can simply play as well as Brissett did last year, they should have enough to make the postseason per Monson."

My my how the world turns.

I hope DW plays like he did 3 years ago but if we get 80% of what he was he'll be the best QB we've had since Bernie. That should be enough with the talent we have now for a playoff run. JMO

I don't know how well Watson will play, but he will play better than last year.

I can't think of any QB, at his basic age, simply losing the ability to play unless some injury impacts his ability to play, or he was a 1 year wonder QB who had that one big season, then went back to what he was before.

Watson played at a high level for 3-4 years, so age hasn't hurt him, injury hasn't hurt him, so unless he does something no other QB has, he probably hasn't forgotten how to play.

Again, I don't know if he will be the best QB in the league....lot's goes in to that, but he should be more than good enough to not only win games, but actually carry the O several times a season.

A very plausible assessment of the subject matter Ball.

I agree with this assessment Ballpeen!!!

The only argument against Watson being a good QB for us: the fact that we never have any good thing happen for us haha

But I’d agree … he SHOULD end up being a good QB if his history proves itself

Hopefully only some of his history proves itself. I'm sure none of us want the sitting out demanding a trade part or the massage therapist part of history to repeat itself. But if people are going to talk about his history you can't pick and choose which parts to include and which parts to leave out. No wait, I guess people can because they do it all of the time.

I know it sounds strange, but sometimes people just want to talk football.

They were discussing the QB and his history. I know bringing up the entirety of his history rather than selective history isn't endorsed by some. Or are you suggesting that a player sitting out and demanding a trade or being suspended doesn't impact football? You might want to ask the Texans about that. Or even Brissett having to start 11 games last season. Let me guess, that does have a huge impact on your team but that's a part of football you and others don't want to talk about.

So I guess that means that others only want to talk about football as long as it doesn't include the part of football they want to talk about.

Thanks for playing. Every word I posted is true and all you have in response is a mindless meme.

Now it could just be coincidence, but every workout tape I have seen of him in mini-camp.....Dawan is working from the LEFT side. I don't want to put too much into that. But I did find it interesting. Could just be seeing if he can be a versatile backup allowing for a roster spot for elsewhere...Plus the Browns value versatility. But it was interesting none the less.

Actually, while not the biggest fan of MKC, I liked this article. And liked his response to his first adversity.

Interesting overview of the Browns by two PFF guys.

Watched, very positive off season grades- BUT, as others always state with truth- you are what you are when the games count--we nothing until they count. DW- he ain't what he use to be, until he is. I'm hopeful.

Can some historian post the exact length of NFL halftimes prior to or around the year nineteen eighty three? Thanks

I'm sure it used to be more than fifteen minutes, maybe a full half hour, but was it more than a half hour.
all I can find is it switched from fifteen to twelve minutes in nineteen ninety.

Can some historian post the exact length of NFL halftimes prior to or around the year nineteen eighty three? Thanks

I'm sure it used to be more than fifteen minutes, maybe a full half hour, but was it more than a half hour.
all I can find is it switched from fifteen to twelve minutes in nineteen ninety.

I really don't think it's ever been more than 15 minutes. I've scoured the internet because the question seemed intriguing enough to do so; I see absolutely nothing to even hint that halftime was ever a different length before 1990.

Just going from memory, but for some reason I recall 20 minutes for halftime. Did not look it up though.

in the old days, it was common for a team getting blown out to turn the tables after halftime,
and I'm sure they had more time to rest than fifteen minutes
I'm thinking of nineteen eighties redskin games and raider games.
Vikings teams, it was a different game.

The NFL had 15 minute halftimes until the change to 12 minute half times. They have never been longer than 15 minutes (unless you count the superbowl)

It's because nobody wanted to watch some crappy HS band performing, or if it was a TV game, maybe "Up With People".



Come on, some of you remember "Up With People", lol

Same here. It was 15 minutes before 1999 and was cut to 12 minutes until this.....

All halftimes will be 13 minutes, 30 seconds

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/03/24/all-halftimes-will-be-13-minutes-30-seconds/

After looking at several sources it seems the answer most often times vary from 12 to 13 minutes. According to this source 13 minutes is the official rule on the length of halftime....

Regular season game halftimes are 13 minutes long, as explicitly stated in the NFL's rulebook. The rules also state that the back judge times each game's halftime to ensure it's the full 13 minutes. Feb 10, 2023

https://fanbuzz.com/nfl/how-long-is-nfl-halftime/

I'm at the who the hell really knows stage in all of this.

Yep. Lol. It's definitely ambiguous and falls into the "who the hell knows" category. I skimmed numerous sites last night and most said "twelve to fifteen minutes". Didn't see the site you posted that clearly says "the rulebook states thirteen minutes" until now.

I even looked through old rulebooks to try to answer Throw's question and not a single one even mentioned halftime length. There are a bunch of sites that talk of it changing to "twelve minutes in 1990". When did it change to thirteen? I have no idea.

Here's my conclusion... There are officials outside the locker rooms telling teams to "hit the tunnel!" at twelve minutes. Sorry, that's the best I can guess. 🤣

Here's what I do know in reference to the original question: There is no evidence anywhere that halftime was ever over fifteen minutes.

Anytime I think of the old Up With People performances, I remember a very old Simpsons episode where a group called "Hooray for Everything" (a pretty funny parody) sang and danced to a severely censored version of "Take a Walk on the Wild Side."

Good stuff.

But, God Bless that positive-thinking group anyway.

Browns Host RB Darrell Henderson Jr. on Visit
https://www.si.com/nfl/browns/news/browns-host-darrell-henderson-jr-on-visit

And that would be a good move IMO. A better than average back, young enough....do it if we can. He could fill in nicely if pressed in to starting.

Hopefully JOK didn’t hear what D’Qwell had to say about him on the Ultimate Cleveland Sports Show. Could be awkward!

The Athletic's Zac Jackson believes RB Jerome Ford "appears headed for a much larger role this season.
Ford, according to Jackson, impressed the team's decision makers as a rookie in 2022, functioning mostly as a kicker returner as Nick Chubb and Kareem Hunt shared the Cleveland backfield. Hunt is not expected back with the Browns, potentially putting Ford in the RB2 role behind Chubb to start the season. Head coach Kevin Stefanski in March said Ford is capable of working as the team's No. 2 back this season, and the second-year RB functioned as the top backfield option in OTAs this week with Chubb sidelined. Ford, 23, profiles as a reasonable late-round pick for Zero RB drafters this summer.
https://www.nbcsportsedge.com/football/nfl/player-news/11179566?category=headlines

I respect D'Quell. He played in the NFL.

However, in my experience in listening to ex-players is that they view things through themselves.

What I mean by that is this. In his case he views the linebacker position from his frame of reference. Play the position the way he played it.

The game and position changes. The linebacker position has become more about passing support than run support. Today with the use of TE's and running backs in the pass game. Some linebackers need to be able to cover backs and TE's. JOK can do that.

Linebackers are getting smaller and faster and need to cover. Others are specializing in pass rush like Devin White and Parsons.

JOK struggled some last year. Part of that was because guards and centers were getting to the second level and blocking. Some of it was bad angles. Some because of failures in gap responsibilities.

I think this year will be a different story.

This.

I thought last year would be JOK's break out year. Even before the injury, maybe Woods wasn't utilizing him correctly. I don't know.

The truth is that whether we have 2 or 3 LBs back there, they need to learn how to tackle better.

Imo

My take on defense is based upon the integrity of the unit.

The secondary(the back unit), the linebackers (middle defense), and the "front unit" (DL).

The units are dependent upon each player contributing to the unit play. The front unit must apply pressure and protect the gaps.

The "middle unit" has to protect the middle in pass coverage and support the DL in gap protection.

The "back unit" acts like an umbrella. Deep protection, boundary protection, and middle support.

Last year the front unit was inconsistent and it led to the failure of the defense as a whole. Myles was the front. The interior stunk. The opposite edge to Myles did little.

The front unit failure caused problems in the middle unit and the back unit.

Enter Schwartz. Schwartz gets with Berry. The defense is upgraded. They immediately upgraded the front unit. And then adjusted the back unit.

I think they looked at linebacker and felt it was ok. That conclusion was reached because they identified the front nuit as the problem.

I think it will be clear as a crystal when we see this defense play. Versus what we saw last year.

None of that is the problem

the "Coordinator>>>Ness," coordination of the offense is the chief problem
AND
they've don't little or nothing to fix it since "head coach" got hired in 2020.

That will be the main contributor to you remaining in 4th place in the afc north, and welcome to the vacuum. another year of fixing the wrong things, not seeing the forrest for the tree frogs
yippee, go team, hooray.