Googled to see his progress and found this lol.

Jones makes Grant look like he's about 11 years old-


damn, that dude is huge...

I gave AB a nice compliment and now I'll do the same for someone else; our owner Jimmy Haslam and Dee Haslam also as I'm sure she has some input into our Browns. When he first bought the team he came under some harsh criticism and maybe rightfully so. He was learning to be an Owner the way a head coach or GM learns their new job. I think we are fortunate to have the Haslam's too because they've shown they care about the team, a willingness to win and they are putting their money down to do it. Not many other owners will do what JH has done. He wants to bring a Super Bowl trophy to Cleveland and he's making a strong effort. JMO

I agree with what you posted but one thing that bothered me about Haslam - it’s not so much of an issue now because I think he recognized it wasn’t working - is that he considered an expert on talent evaluation, not just players but high-ranking FO people and probably coaches.

Sort of like Jerry Jones eh Lamp? LOL Just because you're very wealthy and can buy an NFL team doesn't make you an expert on football or anything else to do with it. You hire people to run the operation so let them run it. We had a guy that meddled for years when he was here. Art something or other At least JH learned. Maybe Dee told him. She seems like an intelligent lady!

Do you mean by people here or in general? I always that that expert label was self-appointed.

Both are intelligent. Like you said earlier, both have grown in to the job. The key to being an owner is the ability to hire the right folks around you, which has happened, being able to listen to what they are wanting to do, and open the checkbook. Both of which they have. There is really nothing else you can ask of an owner.

I meant he considered “himself” an expert , I just forgot that word in my sentence lol.

It is interesting that you brought Dee Halsam up. It could just be my perception but it seemed at the time she became more involved Jimmy let go of the reigns somewhat and allowed those he hired to delegate more of what you would think their job titles called for. It could have been a part of the maturation as an NFL owner or may have had a lot to do with her input. We'll probably never know.

You're perception fits the timeline perfectly. I think it's safe to say "we may never know... but we know".

She has been a huge resource to the team and the community.

She has. All the excellent Browns video content was driven by her. She is also a driven in the charity community.

It also stems from Jimmy is getting older and the family wants to keep the Haslam name involved in their sports holdings. It makes it much easier to transfer power no matter who dies first.

The Haslam family is building a sports empire much like they built a petroleum empire. Dee is involved. JW is involved with his wife. The grandkids will.
They are in a good position. I can see them owning a NBA team outright in 10 years. I wouldn't be surprised to see them get in to hockey at some point.

Some people just build a business. It doesn't matter what the business might be, it's just what they do.

Some take the risk and lose it all, some take the risk and reap the rewards.

It's the American way.

I noticed the same thing Pit that's why I brought it up. Things started to settle down after Dee's name was mentioned more and more. Again, if I had to guess I would say she is an intelligent lady with COMMON sense. Oh, and if I may add, probably a very nice person too considering all the charity work.

j/c:

Joshua Dobbs named Browns No. 2 quarterback behind Deshaun Watson heading into opener vs. Bengals

https://www.cleveland.com/browns/20...atson-heading-into-opener-vs-chiefs.html

P.S. Boo!!! This is actually upsetting to me.

They might want to bring DTR along slowly, so we don't ruin his career like we did other QB's.

I think it's pretty telling that she stepped down ten days before the 2018 draft.

New GM, assets out-the-wazoo, about to draft the franchise QB...

Dee to herself: "I better step aside and go babysit -- before Jimmy sends this thing sideways again." 🤣

DTR showed up and took the QB2 role. It sucks....I liked Dobbs but he gets a chance to start the season in ARZ.

Looks like we now have (3) 5th round picks in next years draft:

Round 2 (own)

Round 3 (own)

Round 5 (own)

Round 5 (Acquired from Panthers in Baker Mayfield trade)

Round 5 (Acquired from Cardinals in Josh Dobbs trade)

Round 6 (Acquired from Texans in Watson trade)

Round 6 (Acquired from Ravens for 229th overall pick in 2023)

Round 7 (own) ~or~ Round 7 (Acquired from Falcons in Jones trade)

And Kellen Mond is now staying...

I'm surprised we got that pick swap for Dobbs. Arizona stinks and is tanking lol

j/c:

Freed up $1.5MM as well.

I'm not sure I understand why they would tank to get another new QB Murray did ok

Seems like a good move

announce Dobbs as the back up

to get more value

knowing DTR may move into the back up position

I like it a lot

DTR needs to bulk up his skinny ass a bit

they've all but said that Murray has been a terrible leader, teammate, and worker. And Caleb Williams is an ELITE QB prospect

Seriously not to compare in a bad way

but he is the Baker the Browns had great hopes

with let downs

Every "Next Year's Guy" is an ELITE prospect.

Kenny Pickett vs. the Browns on Sept. 18th, 2023.

And watch Arizona pair Williams with Marvin Harrison Jr..

David Grayson

2 Fumble recoveries
INT
2 TD

Great move. I think the trading of Dobbs was more or less the plan when we signed him. Or at least the hope. A 5th works just fine. That puts some trade up options on the table and the 5th round still offers quality players who aren't total luck of the draw picks.

The deal is it doesn't really matter who is backing up Watson. It is all about Watson. If we end up having to play the back-up for any length of time, things aren't going well. Except in very rare cases, playing the back-up QB doesn't end well. DTR has looked good, but in very limited action and against limited opposition. I liked what I saw, but am not going to buy in to the hype just yet. The chances are good we end up trading DTR before he is ever the starter for the Browns.

What a difference a day (or two?) makes! Pretty good article:

What I’m hearing about Browns trading Joshua Dobbs to Arizona – Terry Pluto

https://www.cleveland.com/guardians...joshua-dobbs-to-arizona-terry-pluto.html

thanks for posting that quick recap. Clearly Arizona hates their QB options. And I'm not surprised to see that teams have called about DTR

I have no issues with the move - it is what it is. However, I cannot honestly believe that Stefanski and Berry would even consider entering the season with a QB room that has its backups having 1 game of experience total between them with 3 passes thrown resulting in 2 completions for a grand total of 5 yards - PERIOD! I mean think about it, a QB room where your 2 backups have a grand total career passing of 5 total yards passing in the NFL.

I certainly realize that Watson is the QB and the Browns are all in with him as the starter. I also realize that injuries are part of the game and any number of QB's will go down this year. I just find it impossible to believe that with a $307,268,291 actual cash spend in 2023 (thus far), that the Cleveland Browns ownership, GM and HC would even consider entering the season with 2 backup QB's that have a combined grand total of 5 yards total passing in an actual NFL game.

I would suspect that Berry is beating the bush for some type of experienced QB to pick up before the start of the season. At least I hope that is the plan. My worry is that - not unlike last year - when Berry refused to address the DT position during the season which made it appear (that has been argued here) that the Browns were throwing the season - hopefully that same attitude isn't being used now with the thought that if Watson does indeed go down that the Browns have no chance in winning (with their bolstered roster) without Watson and with any backup QB so they'll save the money for next year.

I could be wrong but I expect Berry to announce a QB deal soon.

With no first round picks "throwing the season" didn't make sense last year and doesn't make sense this year. The Browns didn't even have a second round pick last year so throwing the season made zero sense at all.

I agree that it seems odd to go with a back-up that's never played a snap in an NFL game and whose only competition has been against second and third string NFL talent in preseason. But then again teams draft rookie QB's early in the draft and start them at the beginning of their rookie season much less make them the back up QB.

So, what veteran do you like out there?

Not sure who's available or will be available but actually - that's Berry's job.

If I was just throwing out a few names:

Winston NOS
White MIA
Rudolph PIT
Mullins MIN
Heinicke ATL
Minshew IND

Nice, wasn't aware of the list, those all seem like veritable prospects in a back-up situation... just in case.

I don't see a single one that screams at me that they could 'save a season', when called off the bench. More specifically, nothing that really makes one stand out over the other in that respect. So, here's my question... do you think all those dudes will be gone when Watson goes down with his season-ending injury?

Or, is it just a situation where you see a spot-start going in the win column with one of them vs the loss column with DTR? With that conclusion based solely on experience in the NFL?

While they may not e gone, if in fact it gets to the point the team may need one of them, it would certainly be nice of they were prepared and knew they system rather than having to be rushed into service in less than a week. As an aside I don't really care much about whether the team signs another backup or not. But the difference in having one prepared and knowing the system and having one that does not are two totally different scenarios.

Yeah, nobody want to crash-course that week's starting QB.

DTR has responded to the program and has shown great preparedness and execution. I think, regardless of what "vet" we bring in, he's the number two. If Watson has some injury ('nagging' or season ending), it would be two or three sub-par starts by DTR (or an injury) before we would turn to a #3. By definition that would already mean two or three losses by DTR. Now you're turning to #3 to save the season. At that point, your chances of success are slim (from a 'great expectations' standpoint, anyway). I think the Browns value the 3-5M dollars more than selling themselves on 'prevention', when prevention likely means a lost season anyway. And that's looking purely from a standpoint of 'if he wasn't here all season, we're doomed'... which isn't necessarily the case anyway.

I understand the concern and even the criticism, I just don't think it's, by any stretch, reckless. The second Watson goes down, Berry is on the phone... and number three basically has 4 weeks to get up to speed.

5th round picks are 5th round picks but with good scouting we can find some players that can be developed for the future. The Steelers did that for years drafting guys in the 4th or 5th round and they became starters 2-3 years later usually OL or DL. We can always package a couple and move up a round or 2 also. Prudent move on our part. The play of DTR allowed us to have this flexibility. I really like the kid.

Then that begs to question why they are they restructuring all of these contracts to put off paying players in future years in order to have more cap room for this year?

I agree with you.

From Pluto's article there was no intent to trade Dobbs. They called.

In the end DTR beat him out. Other teams called about getting him. He has been really impressive.

At first I thought I wanted Dobbs experience. But I don't have any problem with the trade.

Berry knows what he is doing. There is a plan and they are working that plan. The cap management plan with the DW contract and the others. That was in place when the DW trade happened IMO. Berry planned on restructuring.

Rudolph? Maybe he could room with Myles.

This is essentially the start and end of it.

The Browns believe he performed better and I don't disagree. It would have been nice to have Dobbs and DTR on the roster for QB depth, but when the team was able to get a mid-round pick while keeping the player they like better of the two, it made sense.

No one is questioning what DTR has done on the field this preseason. DTR sitting and learning behind Watson is a good move also. The elephant in the room is the total lack of experience by any of the backups. The main reason for having that experienced guy (outside of being a viable replacement in case of injury) is that you have another set of veteran eyes on the field that can relay things they see that Watson might be missing. The Browns will be sacrificing those eyes by only having DTR and Mond on the sidelines. A veteran eye who can communicate what they see to Watson may only result in 3-4 plays the entire season but those 3-4 plays could be the difference between a win and a loss or a potential playoff position. I know a lot of people think the backup just carries the clipboard and charts the plays, but an experienced vet can see things the starter might not see and could be the difference between winning and losing. Just my opinion but adding a solid veteran presence to the Browns QB room would be an asset to Watson as well as DTR.

Hi guys! Great comments. From what I have seen from DTR in the preseason, I agree. He certainly showed out more than Mond and Dobbs.

Obviously it is only preseason, but I think this kid has great potential whether it be with us or some other team a few years down the road.

They can roll the money over to next year. These moves were made with next season in mind, where we are currently projected to be over the cap. It's just the cap game.

They will probably keep calling.

Watson isn't going anywhere for at least 4 more years, and the probability is he is here for maybe 8 years. Robinso will get some selected play time, but he will remain under wraps and be the carrot at the end of the stick. At some point some team is going to make an offer we decide to take.

New England did this when Brady was there. They had 2-3 QBs they dangled in front of the league before eventually trading them.

I understand Steve's point, but in the end, if Watson gets hurt and misses a significant amount of time, the season is done. DTR could fill in for a game or two and we might be able to win those games. If it is a longer stretch, he or anyone else isn't going to drive us to enough wins.

I will also add that at QB, you really need them around to learn the system. You can't sign a QB on Wednesday and start him on Sunday and expect things to go well. No doubt it is a bit of a toss of the dice, but the reward isn't going to be much different than if we signed a vet.

I get your point and normally I would agree.

However, each case is different. Ideally, you want a veteran backup. You would love to have a guy who has established himself as a backup like Jacoby.

Dobbs is trying to become what Jacoby is, but he is not there yet. He has not played very much and he doesn't have the record.

The Browns were approached by Arizona. They made an offer. The Browns then had to look objectively at DTR and Dobbs and ask:

If DW goes down in a game and then may miss a few weeks. Who gives us the best chance to win Dobbs or DTR? Their answer based upon all they had seen was DTR.

As far as eyes on the sideline? That is the job of the quarterbacks coach and AVP. AVP was a backup in his day.

I don't think you can look at what is ideal because you can not always have that. You look at what you have and decide upon the best option.

So what's the difference? It appears from your post you think they're simply "moving money around" with no actual reason behind it. If you restructure to pay players more in future years, then just roll over that money from this year to next year it all adds up to the same amount of money.

Quick question regarding all the cap discussion: if a high paid QB such as DW, Lamar J, Herbert etc were to get injured week one, do their remaining salaries count against the cap if they are out for the year? Or...... does that free money up to sign a replacemen?

With watson his salary is 100% guaranteed.

How can you be sure of that ?

Idon't believe in that type of thinking much

The reason I don't believe in it

Because of a player named Brock Purdy, you know Mr. Irrelevant !

Other players who came off the bench to take their team to a SB or great season

Nick Foles Tom Brady Trent Dilfer Doug Williams Jeff Hostetler Jim Plunkett Earl Morrall

Saying DTR isn't going to is just an opinion and you really don't know if he can or cannot

I would hope he could be susseccful if called to do so

The odds against it are enormous. But hey, it could happen.

If I understand your question.

If players get injured they still get paid.

I think I would play against the odds

and hope for a

Big payout !!!

Fingers crossed saying

Purdy Purdy please !!!!

LOL !!

A lot of gamblers that have lost everything have followed your philosophy.

Generic odds don't necessarily apply to specific circumstances.

note.
There is NOTHING NEW TO THE OFFENSE an offense we know couldn't take adv. of big plays if they had hall of famers at all fifty three positions including the practice s@uad.

Kevin Stefanski could finish in 4th place in the div, if he had Randy Moss, Jerry Rice, Dion Sanders, keep going, keep going, all in the prime of their careers

BECAUSE the SYSTEM IS FLAWED
when it comes to getting big play on Offense

and not giving them up on Defense

How are ...................... the Cleveland media, and the team going to react when they aren't any closer to the playoffs
than last year.

Vested veterans receive the benefit of fully guaranteed salaries if they are on the Week 1 roster on game day. So to answer your question, Watson would get paid and yes - it counts against the cap.

While that’s a terrific incentive for long-term service, players on the roster bubble can be put at a disadvantage because of the guaranteed timeline.

For example, if a player is set to make $4 million in base salary but is being outperformed by a second-year player, even by a smidge, a team is likely to cut the experienced player to avoid guaranteeing his $4 million salary. That’s partially why some teams try to beat the system by releasing vested veterans during final cuts only to bring them back in Week 2 without guaranteeing their salaries for the season.

We're going to win 11 or 12.....and we'll be in the post-season. If not, drinks are on Purp.

More likely with DTR than Mond....

I hope you are right I do. sigh. ...
^ does that eleven include beginning one and 3 after a blowout loss to cincy, and a "they played so well" in a loss to the week 2 bleh,
and another 30 points scored 2 point loss to Baltimore,
We've seen this movie before, FIX the offensive coordinator or HC, I miss Butch Davis whom I also didn't appreciate at the time.

If only we would have known, we were looking at the glory days with Butch Davis in 200I.

That's another thing gamblers convince themselves of right before they lose their house.

j/c…

Thanks for the memories, Cade!

While York's final FG attempt was blocked...the reason it was blocked was it was coming out too low.

he has had a lot of kicks blocked

No, I realize they still get paid, at least within certain collective bargaining agreement parameters. MY question was regarding the cap. For instance, if a team has no cap room, and a 30-million-dollar cap player gets inquired and out for the season after game 1, can the team sign other players because that inured player's cap money becomes available to the team again. I hope that's clearer.

Super...yep, too many missed and blocked...he cost us game last year and if the goal of this franchise is to make the playoffs and a shot at a Super Bowl..the Browns can't afford to lose one game because of their FG kicker.

If I am reading you correctly when you say the injured player counts against the cap, then if a team has no cap space, and any player gets hurt, they are stuck one player short for the rest of the season, unless they cut a higher salary guy to sign 2 lower salary player? THat doesn't sound right. I can only assume there is more to te hcap if an inury happens.

they have players on their practice squad to choose from.

They do...and those guys get "real" NFL $$$ when called up.

Browns released Anthony Schwartz.

A failed experiment that had to happen.
https://www.yardbarker.com/nfl/articles/browns_releasing_anthony_schwartz/s1_16697_39181074

Whatever scout convinced Anthony Berry that Anthony Schwartz was worth drafting
In RD 3 should be fired. What a true definition of draft bust
Hopefully Mary Kay Kool Aid will stop making excuses
For him now

My understanding (so please confirm) is that the top 53 salaries count against the salary cap.
As for players on IR - no recollection but my guess would be that they do not

His release was a year too late as far as I'm concerned although at this time last year, we probably didn't have anyone better to replace him.

I have no idea about the salary stuff. That would make sense though

This was going to be his 3rd season. You don't cut a drafted player after 1 season unless they are discipline type problems. We cut him at the right time. If we kept him this season, that would be a sign that ego was interfering with making sound decisions.

It was a bad pick.

Blown picks happen and can be forgiven. Sticking with it can't.

We didn't. We washed our hands and moved on.

I have followed the Browns a long time. If you follow the team long enough, you can list off dozens of bad picks, and there will be dozens more. It's just the way it goes. Over time you learn to not expect perfection out of an imperfect process.

Yeah I agree. He had two full seasons and a third TC to prove his value. Good luck to him but it shows yet again there’s more to being a good football player than your time in the 40 or how many squats you can do.

I think Wypler had similar stats though in fewer snaps

Not sure who tracks and publishes preseason stats but found this from august 13th 2023
This would be from the 1st two preseason games

Dawand Jones: 1 pressure on 36 snaps
Luke Wypler: 0 pressures on 22 snaps

https://www.dawgsbynature.com/2023/...ustin-watkins-ronnie-hickman-luke-wypler

No doubt.

One can't forget that Schwartz played at Auburn. That is big time football no matter the standard. It's not like we drafted a nobody from nowhere.

It just didn't work out. Time to move on.

If I had to guess it was about conditioning. He is a guy who is going to have to pay attention to that. When you are that big, the odds are you are going to get bigger as you get a little older.

If he works hard he can keep his weight in check. If he is like most people, he is going to gain weight.

I see this and then get angry that we can't accelerate his progress to start for Wills right now haha

Auburn is not a college that produced high end NFL WRs
Hello anyone recall Sammie Coates or Ricardo Louis ?
If Schwartz was any good then Bama Georgia or UT would
Have been recruited him heavily

Cedric Tillman, Dawand Jones & Dorian Thompson-Robinson... if Siaki Ika -or- Isaiah McGuire work out, this could end up being a great draft. Not bad for not turning in a card 'til pick 11 in the 3rd round.

I said the same thing too. All of the rookies have had a good preseason. Throw in the CB we drafted from NW too.

With Jones, the issue was never physical skills, the concerns were always conditioning and weight.

The Browns look like they made a good pick. Callahan is a great coach. Stars align and maybe there will be a role for him in the future.

Callahan is a really valuable asset to us. He can develop them better than anyone

The Cleveland Browns have made the following roster moves:

Placed on injured reserve (1):

WR Jakeem Grant Sr.

Waived (9):

CB Caleb Biggers

LB Cam Bright

TE Miller Forristall

TE Thomas Greaney

CB Gavin Heslop

T Derrick Kelly II

S Nate Meadors

WR Anthony Schwartz (injury designation)

WR Jalen Wayne

Contract terminated (2):

G Colby Gossett

RB Jordan Wilkins

All NFL teams must reduce their active roster to a maximum of 53 players prior to 4 p.m. on Tuesday.

https://www.clevelandbrowns.com/new...iZN2FuhtbUt97HL01lRQQkNOyvkKSs4_0iNhEIuA

Browns’ commitment, confidence in Cade York appears more shaken after kicker’s latest miss

BY TOM WITHERS
ASSOCIATED PRESS
AUG. 28, 2023 2:59 AM PT
link

CLEVELAND — Cade York may no longer have a powerful leg to stand on with the Browns.
York’s struggles this summer have eroded Cleveland’s confidence in him and coach Kevin Stefanski’s failure to commit to the second-year kicker for the season opener has raised more questions about his future.

Despite York’s misses in exhibition games, the Browns had been adamantly supporting York, a fifth-round draft pick who had an underwhelming rookie season in 2022.

That changed Sunday.

After York missed an extra point (it was nullified by penalty) and had a late field-goal attempt blocked (it looked low) in a 33-32 loss to the Kansas City Chiefs, Stefanski was asked if the 22-year-old will be Cleveland’s kicker in the Sept. 10 opener against Cincinnati.

He didn’t say yes. He didn’t say no.

“We always keep those internal as we get through this week,” Stefanski said on a Zoom call. ”But I’ll reiterate I think Cade is very, very talented.”

Talent has never been the problem with York. Accuracy is the issue.

While York has looked as good as ever in practice, he’s not carrying it over into games. He went just 4 of 8 on field-goal tries in Cleveland’s four preseason games, and missed potential game-winners the past two weeks.

On Saturday, York, who briefly left with a shin injury in the first quarter, had his 43-yarder with 57 seconds left deflected by Chiefs defensive tackle Phil Hoskins at the line of scrimmage. Stefanski was vague in pinpointing what went wrong.

“Obviously didn’t hit it like we wanted to and that’s something I know we want to be able to finish there as a team, so it was disappointing,” Stefanski said. “But it doesn’t change our mentality that each one of our players is going to continue to work at this thing and get better.”

That’s been the company line for weeks as York’s situation has spiraled further off course. The Browns’ stance is that he’s like any player working on his craft in the runway up to the regular season.

However, York’s inconsistency last season — he went 24 of 32 on field goals — along with the team’s attempts to protect him from outside criticism, seem to point to there being deeper complications.

During the TV broadcast, Browns general manager Andrew Berry, who used a fourth-round pick on the former LSU standout, reiterated his supported and indicated the team was prepared to begin a critical 2023 season with York.

But that endorsement came before the latest late-game failure, and now Berry may be forced to sign a veteran or at the very least have one on standby as a backup plan in case York continues to be off the mark.

Veterans Robbie Gould and Mason Crosby headline a group of proven kickers available to the Browns. There could be others for Berry to choose from this week as NFL teams trim their rosters to 53.

To his credit, York has remained confident in his ability and that he’ll turn things around.

“I want to be a weapon,” he said in Kansas City. “I know how good I am. That’s been the most frustrating thing the last month, struggling with that.”

York also grew testy with a reporter when he was pressed about why he’s not performing as well as hoped.

Stefanski said he understood York’s frustration.

“He works very hard, wants to come through,” Stefanski said. “So of course he’s going to be frustrated. I’ve been in that situation when you have to answer some questions when you’re frustrated, so we have to be pros in that situation. But these are human beings, so we do sometimes let frustrations get the better of us.”

Cleveland thought its long-term kicking situation was solved when it drafted York.

At the moment, that seems short-sighted.

___

AP NFL: https://apnews.com/hub/nfl

That doesn't mean anything.

I have posted the link, but quoted all you need to know.

https://fantasyintervention.com/anthony-schwartz-draft-profile/

Peen...the following paragraph from the April 22, 2021 story from the link above, that stands out is below...

...

Quote

Schwartz is far from a finished product. He is still raw as a route runner and often gets pushed around at the point of contact in press coverage and occasionally has focus drops. His ball tracking skills on deep passes leave a bit to be desired as well. He will ultimately get manufactured touches at the NFL level, much like Curtis Samuel does, but needs to work on nuances of his game to become a consistent, polished receiver.

...The key moment for anyone who wants to make their living catching passes while playing football is what the receivers body does when the pass and pass defender show up at the same time. Obviously from this April 2021 article, some were pointing out Schwartz's issues staying focused on securing the ball from the time Schwartz became an NFL prospect.

So far, Schwartz has not overcome the issue.

I agree. I am not so much sticking up for Schwartz. I am not sticking up for him at all. He hasn't gotten better. He needed to be cut. I was just posting that to answer another poster that him going to Auburn isn't why he is a poor pro player. It was simply to show he played at a big time program and had offers from other big time programs.

He wasn't just some fast guy one football program decided to put him in a helmet and pads.

Warren Sharp
@SharpFootball
% of snaps in empty this preseason:

43.8% - Deshaun Watson

<huge gap>

18.8% - Trevor Lawrence
17.4% - C.J. Stroud
16.7% - Mac Jones
14.3% - Geno Smith
11.4% - Sam Howell
10.0% - Daniel Jones
9.1% - Justin Fields
7.1% - Colt McCoy
6.7% - Baker Mayfield
6.7% - Kenny Pickett
6.5% - Bryce Young
5.9% - Anthony Richardson
5.6% - Josh Allen
5.6% - Patrick Mahomes
5.4% - Jordan Love
4.5% - Russell Wilson
0.0% - Aaron Rodgers
0.0% - Jimmy Garoppolo
0.0% - Derek Carr
0.0% - Tua Tagovailoa
0.0% - Brock Purdy
0.0% - Desmond Ridder

(projected 2023 starters only)

did he take any 1st team snaps against starters in these games or was this record compiled against backups?

Thank you!

it had to be done

Bravo

Any terms released on the Hopkins trade? Obviously it had to be one of those trades to avert getting nothing for a player the Chargers were about to cut. Teams don't trade their keeper kicker.

Just looking around, a 7th rounder. Next year I guess. Cheap enough. Not a big leg, but pretty soild out to 45 yards.

Thank God!

The Cleveland Browns and Los Angeles Chargers have agreed to the following trade:

Browns receive:

K Dustin Hopkins

Chargers receive:

2025 7th round pick

Hopkins is entering his 10th NFL season out of Florida State. Originally a sixth-round pick by Buffalo in 2013, Hopkins has appeared in 109 career games with the Commanders (2015-21) and Chargers (2021-22). He has converted 190 of 224 field goal attempts (84.8%) and 221 of 234 extra points (94.4%) for 791 total points. Last season, he connected on 9 of 10 field goal attempts and all 12 PATs in five games with the Chargers before being placed on injured reserve with a hamstring injury. He was named the Special Teams Player of the Week for the third time in his career following a four field goal performance, including a 39-yard game winner during Week 6 in 2022.

I would have rather signed dawson

Thank God!

Agreed. Would've been nice for him to figure out whatever was the issue. Having a weapon at K is really really nice (Justin Tucker). Thing is... Tucker is a stone cold assassin with a big leg attached.


Still, your kicker can't have the yips going into a season with expectations like we have.

His career numbers are more in line with what you'd expect a reliable kicker to be. A very good and much needed move. Thanks AB!!! I'd like to add our FO has been very pro-active since the end of last season including a very promising draft class. Good job!!!

D4...you are 100% correct, it had to be done.

We have 52 other players busting their butt to win games and York has received nothing but 100% support from his teammates and our coaches regardless of his struggles.

Guess we missed something when judging Yorks ability to kick.

that's how I feel too Mac. You can't let one guy be THAT much of a detriment

I don't think we misjudged much there. Like many kickers it just didn't work on the first stop.

I wanted to draft the guy, and really hoped he would be the guy. I also know we have too much riding on the season to hope he gets his head cleared. A new start somewhere else is what he needs. I don't know that he will get a shot this year, but he will be in somebodys camp next year.

I wish him well. Hopkins is young enough we can ride him(hopefully) for several seasons.

Is York still on the roster?

we have to wait to see if he clears waivers

Does anyone have any stats on Hopkins kicks from 50+ yards? ?

I'm sad that both York and Schwartz didn't cut it. Schwartz was so damn fast.. that could have been fun to watch...

Hopkins is like 92% from 49 and under but only 50% from over 50

He doesn't have the range of the great ones, but he's a solid guy

He had plenty of opportunities.

I'd say most of us thought he was fortunate to be on the team LAST year

My bestie is a hardcore Chargers fan and he said Hopkins is pretty good.

York was from LSU wasn't he. I think we should put a temporary hold on drafting guys from LSU. We haven't had much luck recently.

Ironic you say that because just today, in my face book memories, I had posted a year ago: I don't care how fast you are. If you are a receiver in the nfl, part of that contract should include actually being able to catch the ball.

bingo

Cincinnati 💔
@CincyProblems
·
2h
BREAKING: DE Joseph Ossai suffered a high ankle sprain in the #Bengals last preseason game and is now doubtful to play Week 1, via the
@Enquirer

About time!

Dustin Hopkins: 3 things to know about the new Browns kicker
Published: Aug. 28, 2023, 8:46 p.m.

The Browns acquired kicker Dustin Hopkins on Monday to replace Cade York.AP
By Irie Harris, cleveland.com


CLEVELAND, Ohio -- After his blocked field goal in the Browns’ 33-32 loss to Kansas City on Saturday, it was evident the chapter of Cade York in Cleveland was coming to a close sooner than we thought.

The Cade York era ended Monday after the Browns traded a 2025 seventh-round pick to the Chargers for kicker Dustin Hopkins. York is expected to be waived Tuesday.

The most anticipated moment during the Browns’ season opener on Sept. 10 will be Hopkins’ first kick. But until that moment comes about, what can we expect from Hopkins’ arrival in Cleveland?

Here’s three things to know about the new kicker.

Terrific Efficiency

Hopkins ranks 20th all time in field goal percentage (84.8%), and his 94.4% rate on extra point attempts also looks good on the resume. Through eight seasons so far, Hopkins has only finished one season below 80% in field goal percentage, which was 2020 when he was 27 of 34 (79.4%).

But his best season statistically came in 2018 with Washington, where he completed 89.7% of his field goal attempts (26 of 29) and 96.2% of his extra point attempts (25 of 26). It was during that same season he finished fifth among kickers in field goal grading (81.1), per Pro Football Focus. He also took more field goal attempts of 40-49 yards than any other area on the field, draining 10 of 12 for 83.3%, tied for 13th with Adam Vinatieri.

By the Range

From anywhere between 20-39 yards, Hopkins is money.

In his career, he’s completed 98.1% of his field goals between 20-29 yards (53 of 54) and 93.4% of his attempts 30-39 yards (57 of 61). Between 40-49 yards, he’s still kicking a solid 81.8% (63 of 77), but he’s only converted half of his 30 attempts between 50-59 yards (15 of 30).

Last season with the Chargers, Hopkins drained 9 of 10 field goal attempts and made all 12 of his extra point attempts through five games. He also went 6 for 6 in field goal attempts between 30-39 yards on the year, which tied for 23rd.

His fifth game of the season was his best, and eventually last, of the season. Hopkins drained all four of his field goal attempts coming within 30-39 yards on an injured hamstring, including the 39-yard game winner to beat Denver.

Injury Issues

The first signs of injuries for the 32-year-old vet occurred in 2017 after suffering a partially torn hip muscle. The injury kept him out from mid-October to mid-December, allowing him to play only the last three games of the season. But he played in every regular season game from 2018-21.

It was last season with the Chargers where the injury bug hit him again. Hopkins missed the Chargers’ Week 4 win over the Browns with a right quad strain. And during their Week 5 win over Denver, after draining his first field goal of the game, Hopkins could be seen letting out a scream while grabbing onto his hamstring.

Heroically, he made all his attempts and served the game winner, but missed the rest of the season due to the hamstring injury.


https://www.cleveland.com/browns/20...to-know-about-the-new-browns-kicker.html

hopefully those injury concerns stay away this year

I'd say he probably is pending Hopkins passing his physical.

I give them credit for addressing the issue decisively. I was thinking they were going to do the classic ignore and hope for the best strategy we’ve seen before. Maybe a little late but better late than never

Why is it late? Late would have been if we waited until we lost a game due to poor kicking. We could have waited another week + and it wouldn't have been too late. It's not like a kicker needs to learn a playbook.

On kickoffs, kick it right, left, pooch, or kick it deep. Point tries, just go work with your snapper and holder for a few hours down at the stadium. OK....maybe they need to learn the 2-3 different fake fieldgoal tries we might call once every 18 seasons. I don't remember the last time we tried one of those.

I remember Dawson scoring on a fake once ... and Tom Tupa scoring the first 2 point conversion in NFL history

An injured hammy on a kicker has to be brutal.

I hope this isn't a tangent, but the whole "it was Bojorquez" conspiracy is fascinating to me. I'm curious if there's actually anything to that (in terms of technique... always love to learn more about finer points of the game).

I was at the Tupa score. In Cincy. When was that, 25 years ago? Maybe 30.

love that play haha

Labor Day week-end in 1994. He scored three, two point conversions in 1994.

love it

Ahh, the days where the shoulder pads were 3 miles wide

j/c...

How did he last so long? No kicks made the entire kicking session!

he's the Titans problem or solution now

Injury Update: WR Jakeem Grant Sr. out for season with ruptured patellar tendon
Injury Alert: LB Jordan Kunaszyk suffers torn MCL vs. Chiefs
Injury Alert: CB Denzel Ward in concussion protocol following game vs. Chiefs
Siaki Ika exits early, but returns in 4th quarter vs. Chiefs
Caleb Biggers exits game vs. Chiefs with cramps

Ward might be headed to IR with another concussion. Could be why they claimed CB Kahlef Hailassie from waivers.

we dropped Green for Kahlef. If Ward was headed to the IR I would think we would have kept Green vs testing out some other players of interest.

j/c...

https://www.cleveland.com/browns/20...injury-as-a-brown-in-loss-to-chiefs.html

Denzel Ward started the preseason finale against the Chiefs Saturday afternoon along with most of the rest of the Browns starters, but now his status for the opener against the Bengals is in jeopardy.

A two-time Pro Bowler, Ward suffered a head injury in the first quarter and was placed in the concussion protocol.

This is a real concern for the Browns and their defense. If Ward is diagnosed with a concussion, it will be his fourth one in his six-year career with the Browns. The fact that he missed multiple games with his previous concussions means the same thing might happen in this instance, and he could be sidelined for the Bengals game Sept. 10 at Cleveland Browns Stadium. Players who have had concussions are more susceptible to them in the future.

Cash Money.

dangit

I hate it for the guy, but he is done.

He will miss 2-3 games with this one, then another....how many before he is a vegetable?

I am not saying this because it is a weakness, but some people just can't take a punch, so to speak. He is a good player, but he just isn't going to be able to keep playing the game without risking his long term health. The kid has the heart, but his head just can't take it. Tua is a brain bruise or two away from the same thing, but he isn't a defensive player and has to expose himself the same way. .

He needs to do everybody a favor and just retire rather than riding out his contract. Money is great, but what good is it when you are 55 and you are drooling on your feeding bib while some nurse is changing your diaper?

I'm surprised Denzel Ward's contract hasn't been restructured yet to free up more cap space.

4B in cap space!

milk, I think it's gonna happen soon

That's an obvious mistake but it's pretty funny.

Reading the above account of York not making a single kick in 30 minutes..it this is true and not an exaggeration, I'm wondering if York was doing all he could to make sure the Browns cut him.

York is from northern Texas and signing with the Titans puts York close to home.

Let's see if his kicking suddenly improves...

Nashville is 664 miles from Dallas. The only people that think that's "close to home" own their own private jet.

Then there's the fact that if and when a player is cut, they have no idea which team will pick them up.

How hard did you have to try to come up with this far fetched scenario?

I don't know. I don't think he would do that to get to Tennessee.

If his family is going to games, they probably fly, and Cade is probably paying. Tennesse is a long state and Texas is a big state. The drive from Nashville to even Dallas is probably about 11-12 hours, real driving time, not some mapquest estimate.

If north Texas means Lubbock or Amarillio stat adding 3-4+ hours.

Not a big Njoke fan. He's ok, but has been living on the potential promise for a long time.

Last year was a pretty good year for him, so maybe the worm has turned.

It does wonders when targets increase 51% in one season (2021-2022) and 176% since 2020.

I wonder if Chubb had any captain votes

Hayden Grove
@H_Grove
·
44m
The Browns have named their 2023 captains:

Deshaun Watson
Joel Bitonio
Anthony Walker
Myles Garrett
Charlie Hughlett

Last year there were multiple team captains named. I'm not sure if they've all been announced yet. Last year they were Myles Garrett, Nick Chubb, Joel Bitonio, Anthony Walker Jr. and Charley Hughlett.

I feel bad for John Kelly Jr, dude always plays his heart out in the preseason every year, only to be cut and maybe make the practice squad. He deserves an opportunity to ball.

He's from just north of dallas. Nashville is about halfway home from Cleveland. That theory makes about as much sense as the fake blood clots.

Every year he gets a shot....and comes up short- no dishonor there, just ain't good enough......I found it interesting
NFL.com has us picked for FOURTH in the division.....our history makes it a good call.....but, dang, I sure hope we make lots of these so called experts STUPID.....GO Browns!!!

jfan...what the hell are you talking about...who said anything about fake blood clots...?

I don't recall who reported the 30 straight misses, but this sounds like something made up. Does anyone know who reported it and is that person considered reliable?

Your mean you wouldn't sabotage your own career as a starting kicker in the NFL, take about an $800k pay cut going from your original rookie contract on the active roster to a practice squad deal all so you could save about an hour of flight time to get back home to exciting Prosper, TX?!?

Maybe I should have used quotation marks.

Similarly... I expect us to be top 2 this year... but frankly, I'd rather be the underdog...

Dawson was cut three times the year before he came to the Browns by three different teams. Did he suddenly get better because he came to Cleveland?
Our current kicker was Drafted by Buffalo in 2013, and cut by them in 2014. He then moved on the Saints and was cut again. Then signed with Washington and stuck as their kicker. Now would you say he and Dawson kicked better because when they went to Washington and Cleveland because of where they played, or because they like most kickers take time to adjust and learn how to be a NFL kicker.

Btw GM or anyone, is John Kelly Jr. on the PS or did we cut him?

We cut him. As of today he is unemployed still.

I like John Kelly and thought he should have been elevated last season. At this point, there is no real upside to keeping him on the practice squad. He has had his chance and for whatever reason couldn't crack the 53 roster. It's time to filter in some new guys and see where that goes. If they don't make it in a couple of years, bring on the new crop.

Agreed, I just couldn’t find anything on him and every site I perused said he was still a Brown. Thanks got the clarification.

Thanks for posting. I have no idea if that is true or not, but if I just listened to this for the first time and didn't know it was from a "sports reporter" this sounds like some of his drunk biddies told him this.


Again, could very well be true, but it reminds me of a time our HS girls' BB team beat a very weak team about 90-10 and on the way out one of their fans stated to another that they would win 5 of 10. Meaning, it sounds like guys (his friends, not trotter) with an agenda making exaggerated claims. I noticed his term that his friends said " I don't think he has made a FG, in like 30 minutes".

If I was at that practice and noticed he missed maybe 5 in a row, I would actually start counting until he made one, so I had a number. It just sounds exaggerated.

Not that Cade shouldn't have been released but be real.

It does seem very outlandish and if true I would have thought it would have been a much bigger story than this.

Not saying this is true, but if he had a 30 period when he didn't try any kicks, it could accurately be described as 30 minutes without making a single kick. JS

That's as true as the easter bunny, tooth fairy, and my good looks.

Browns sign CB A.J. Green to practice squad

https://www.clevelandbrowns.com/news/browns-sign-cb-a-j-green-to-practice-squad

So the X poster wasn't true or my "hypothesis" wasn't true.

Ward is not a that huge a loss, the pass D improved when he was not in the game last year.
When he was in the game the offense kept picking on him by throwing to the guy he was covering,
... in one game.

I'm not a big fan of him either. He's a decent player, but that's about it. I've always thought that his ego is bigger than his actual playing ability. However, he did make that great TD catch in preseason a game or two ago so maybe that might be an indication that he may very well be worth all that money this year? We shall see.

From the media group, a good beginning of the season @uestion, about the team,

What are you most certain of about the team,

What are you least certain of about the team, and

What do you most have to see to find out, about the team.

...
I'm the most certain that the Head Coach, is going to ruin trying to coach this talent, on gamedays and be the reason for a lot of unhappy game nights for at least more than a third, probably a half to more than half of the many losses ahead will be the coaches inability to get points b/c of boneheaded coaching decisions.

I'm 2nd most certain they had better Rb's behind Chubb, before they tried to rely on Ford and Strong.

.....ss
I'm least certain that the Browns can defend the pass, with anywhere near the ability they had in the past couple of years, when they were doing it well, in the past couple of years.
They don't any longer have Greedy, they don't have Troy Hill, they don't have R. Harrison, they waived A.J. for a guy named Khaleef, who we know nothing about,
I think they could be a great big colander / spaghetti strainer, in the pass defense, ... and I think that was Forseeable.

and we can blame the coach and GM , b/c , they could have addressed it in the last ten months.

.....

I'm most have to see and find out if the team can achieve anything other than 4th place in the Div, at any point of the upcoming year.

AND WHAT AN OPPORTUNITY, what an opportunity to begin the year,

TIED FOR FIRST PLACE IN THE DIV.
TODAY

.........

and I'm the most tired of hearing from Mary K, that Ogbo' Okronkwo is anything.

Ogbo, isn't anything of a factor, isn't going to be anything special on gamedays.
Ogoo is just a guy.

The Browns have a plethora of players who are all 'Just a guy'.

JOK, Myles, CB Ward, Teller, coach Kevin, and they have a ton of guys who are fragile unreliables,
Forbes, Nick Harris, J. Ford, J. Elliott, Greedy for 2 years, wr Schwarts J Phillips, the final 3 are not on the team anymore, but they had been, and for a while.

.......
And they might have focused on the middle of the DL, but, what about the outside edge of the run defense? Run D of the "around the outside edge" plays?

I'm saying he never kicked field goals for 30 minutes without making one on that day or any other day he was with the Browns. It didn't happen. I have no clue for sure who is making it up, but somebody sure as hell is. Be it Trotter, or somebody else.

GM...so you admit that you "have no clue"...even though the source is credited to Jake Trotter...

Quote

@Jake_Trotter
told us that there was a practice last week where Cade York didn’t make a single kick for 30 minutes

Should Browns fans believe Jake Trotter...or YOU, gm...?

Like I said, if true, that Cade York did not kick a good field goal for a period of 30 minutes of practice, he might be doing his best to punch his ticket out of Cleveland...

GM has always had sources inside the team. Maybe you didn't know that or have forgotten. So I'm going to trust GM. I believe he has more than a clue.

Your free to believe whatever you want Mac. I'm only giving everybody the facts.

I believe GM.

Yeeeeeeeea…..I believe GM on this and pretty much almost all his posts, especially for the reasons Pit mentioned. Besides he’s always been straight to the point in his posts for a very long time.

Personally that tweet is one I put zero stock into.

Questions:

- 30 mins eh? That’s such a rounded off number. Does that mean at 30 min 1 second he finally made a kick? Who started this timer btw? Was it randomly after so many kicks this person said I’m going to start timing in case he starts missing a bunch in a row.

- how many kicks did he actually kick during this period? Was it rapid fire? Did he take his time between kicks? Was he 0-2 or 0-30? I mean, you’re timing him…why aren’t you counting the misses? That even seems easier to do.

- a big one to me: was Ventrone giving instructions to him? This easily could’ve been a case where they saw something in film or during practice and Bubba was trying to fix a hitch in his movements or follow thru. Practice is just that…working on different things to better yourself for game time.



There are 32 kicking positions available. Teams “might” carry a second kicker on the PS. This isn’t a normal game day backup position.

Cash paid in 2022 he made $1,434,640. His contract was terminated. His base salary was $705,000
He now signed with the Titans for $216,000.

“If” he was trying to get fired, that is one of the dumbest things to do. He took a huge pay cut for such a young player with minimal starting positions.

jc...

Whatever York is said to have done, his performance in the Pre-season was poor enough to punch his ticket out of Cleveland.

My source, my own eyes.

At least you've boiled it down to a known and not speculation. He certainly needed to be replaced if that's the point you have been trying to make.

[quote=ScottPlayersFacemask]Yeeeeeeeea…..I believe GM on this and pretty much almost all his posts, especially for the reasons Pit mentioned. Besides he’s always been straight to the point in his posts for a very long time.

Personally that tweet is one I put zero stock into.

Questions:

- 30 mins eh? That’s such a rounded off number. Does that mean at 30 min 1 second he finally made a kick? Who started this timer btw? Was it randomly after so many kicks this person said I’m going to start timing in case he starts missing a bunch in a row.

- how many kicks did he actually kick during this period? Was it rapid fire? Did he take his time between kicks? Was he 0-2 or 0-30? I mean, you’re timing him…why aren’t you counting the misses? That even seems easier to do.

- a big one to me: was Ventrone giving instructions to him? This easily could’ve been a case where they saw something in film or during practice and Bubba was trying to fix a hitch in his movements or follow thru. Practice is just that…working on different things to better yourself for game time.]

I agree with your points. It just seems odd and the claim of, "I don't think he made a kick for 30 minutes", sounds so vague and made up.

Yea, it was a really odd tweet. Especially coming from Trotter.

[video:youtube][/video]

Good to hear a report from him.

I have high expectations fro the defense.

Ward back at practice but Stefanski says he is still in protocol.

Teller restructured for 9.1 million freed up. Per Field Yates

We've rolled over so much cap space lol

Going to keep the window open as long as possible.

If Jimmy is willing to spend the money up front, it makes sense to do it.

yeah I agree

Starting Free Safety Thornhill did not practice Thursday due to a calf injury. 50/50 he misses the game on Sunday.

we need all the secondary help we can get this game

j/c...

Browns defense is committed to coming together off the field, and it's already paying off
Nate Ulrich
Akron Beacon Journal


CLEVELAND — As Anthony Walker Jr. sought one last bonding experience before the Browns began the 2023 season, the proverbial light bulb went off for the linebacker and captain.

Instead of each position group gathering for a separate dinner, a common practice among Browns players, Walker thought the entire defense should meet and watch “Thursday Night Football.” The idea came to fruition when the defensive players rendezvoused at Marble Room Steaks and Raw Bar in downtown Cleveland, enjoyed a meal and watched the Detroit Lions upset the Kansas City Chiefs.

“You never want to take that camaraderie building for granted,” Walker told the Beacon Journal.

Did the defense deciding to indulge in fine dining lead to its dominant performance in Sunday's season-opening, 24-3 win over the AFC North rival Cincinnati Bengals at Cleveland Browns Stadium?

Let's not get carried away.

But has the defense taken steps to ensure the players are developing the trust and chemistry needed to capitalize on their talents?

There are reasons to believe the answer is yes.

“I think that's what it was all about,” Walker said. “That's what I wanted to get. Obviously, we've got to keep doing it. It's not ever going to be a finished product until we win the Super Bowl.”

Overreactions are rampant after Week 1 in the NFL, so it's important to remember it's too early to know whether the Browns have a franchise-changing defense with new Cleveland coordinator Jim Schwartz at the controls.

The first impression could not have been stronger, though, and it resulted in the Browns winning a season opener at home for the first time since 2004.

The Browns held the Bengals to 142 yards of offense (75 rushing and 67 passing), six first downs and a 13.3% third-down conversion rate (2 of 15). The Bengals punted 10 times and never reached the red zone.

Bengals star quarterback Joe Burrow went 14-of-31 passing (45.2%) for 82 yards without a touchdown or an interception and posted a career-low rating of 52.2. He absorbed two sacks and 10 quarterback hits.

The Bengals lamented poor communication on offense, and Burrow said missing training camp because of a strained calf causes such breakdowns.

Rain on Cleveland's lakefront didn't help either quarterback — the Browns' Deshaun Watson went 16-of-29 passing (55.2%) for 154 yards and a touchdown with an interception for a rating of 67.3 but masked some of his woes by rushing five times for 45 yards, including a 13-yard TD.

Some Browns players were fired up about Bengals wide receiver Ja'Marr Chase's “Cleveland is Cleveland” and "the elves" trash talk last week.

Yet, the truth is the schemes and strategies devised by Schwartz and execution of his defenders proved to be the main reasons the Bengals struggled so mightily.

The Browns blitzed Burrow on 53% of his drop backs in the first half, according to ESPN Stats & Info. Walker said he couldn't recall blitzing at any point in his career as much as the Browns did in Schwartz's regular-season debut as their defensive coordinator.

Defensive ends Myles Garrett, Za'Darius Smith and Ogbo Okoronkwo and defensive tackles Dalvin Tomlinson, Shelby Harris and Jordan Elliott moved around to create matchup issues. At times, Garrett lined up in front of the center in a two-point stance.

“It was really fun just to see the O-linemen confused and not knowing who was going where,” Okoronkwo said. “It worked out exactly how Coach Schwartz said. So we listen to Coach Schwartz, and in Coach Schwartz we trust.”

Garrett and Okoronkwo each had a sack, with Garrett's causing a game-clinching turnover on downs with 10:27 left in the fourth quarter. Garrett and Smith had four quarterback hits apiece, with several Browns defenders saying Smith knocking down Burrow on the first play from scrimmage set the tone for the game.

“I see Burrow on the ground,” Garrett recalled. “I'm thinking, 'Who the hell?' I see Z, and he's got that big, old grin. I'm like, 'Oh, I can't wait to get there myself. He's already set the tempo for the game.'”

The defensive backs held up their end of the bargain, winning many battles on 50-50 balls thrown by Burrow and making sure the pass rush and coverage complemented one another.

“That's like Kobe-Shaq,” said safety Grant Delpit, who likely played his best game since entering the NFL as a second-round draft pick in 2020.

The secondary limited the Bengals' dynamic trio of receivers — Chase (five catches on nine targets for 39 yards), Tyler Boyd (two catches on three targets for 10 yards) and Tee Higgins (zero catches on eight targets for no yards) — to virtually nothing despite Browns starting safety Juan Thornhill missing the game with a calf injury.

“We wanted to establish our identity today. I think we sent a loud message across the division, across the league and what they can look forward to from this Cleveland defense this year,” said Rodney McLeod, who started at safety in place of Thornhill.

The Browns have had a talented roster for years, but it hasn't translated to the field frequently enough. Cohesion has been missing far too often.

“When you have all that talent, everybody wants to make plays,” cornerback Greg Newsome II told the Beacon Journal. “And on every play, someone has to sacrifice.

“When you can trust somebody on a more personal level, you're willing to do more out there to sacrifice your body for those players. So I think that definitely shows where we're at together, and we've just got to continue to keep doing it.”

It's why Newsome and Walker explained they view the whole defense hanging out Thursday night as a significant development and a continuation of what the Browns started to create when they spent nine days and eight practices of training camp at The Greenbrier in White Sulphur Springs, West Virginia.

“It's only you, football and your teammates,” Walker said.

Garrett accurately stated the Browns must continue to prove the “hype is real” surrounding their defense.

“It's only one,” Walker said. “We don't want to overdo it, but it's a huge one.

“You see the potential. We see how good we can be.”

The ingredients of an elite defense are there for all to see.

The Browns will need the right mix of personalities and leadership qualities throughout this season to keep them from going to waste.

https://www.beaconjournal.com/story...-myles-garrett-grant-delpit/70816613007/

Liked story, like humble Defense stating obvious- ONE GAME- stay humble and hungry. The O- one game/in the rain- best- Nick was Nick, worst- fumble early- same old Browns, second best- 3/3 FGs, super. On to Pittsburgh- give them NO smack talk, they will be hair on fire due to their loss and Browns win. Go Browns!!!

There you have it. Now we lose on Monday.

This is why there should be no NCAA football polls until week 5 or 6.

I wish analysts would keep our name quiet for a few more weeks or months haha. It doesn't do any good

He's always hated on us when we suck and praised us when we are good.

We just have to live up t the hype

The commentators have to "earn their money"- sample size of one- enough said/typed. Go Browns!!!

Week 3 is already up on DraftKings and it's Browns -4.5 over Titans.

The Titans are a weird team. They will play physical and tough, but don't have a lot of firepower

Good stuff Bull, thanks for sharing...

Just watched today's presser; Chubb, Watson, Jones, and Walker.

Nick is clearly uncomfortable talking about himself.
DW was wearing his usual knit cap, this one with Brownie the elf front and center. (Aside, it's a brownie, not an elf. It's a similar but different mythical creature. Making it an elf named Brownie is a compromise.)
Dewand Jones if really friggin big. He appears humble. That may wear off, but I aways appreciate humility.
AWalk carries himself like a leader. I understand the respect his teammates show for him.

I love Gregg Williams. I love how blunt he is about everything.

Talking about being called for the HC interview (early morning, New Years Day), he asked Dorsey... "Am I just here so you can ask me a bunch of stupid questions you already know the answer to?". 🤣

His outlook was simple. If he's the HC, he's in charge, everyone else can just stay in their lane. If you want him to answer to someone else -- he'd just as soon be a coordinator.

Dorsey didn't want to answer to Gregg... Freddie was a yes man. John and Jimmah both like yes men.

He said he thinks the world of Paul DePodesta, "he's a very, very intelligent man". Says he's just another piece in the puzzle. "It's my fault if I don't understand what Paul is bringing to the table." "He's very useful in helping you do your job."


Cool interview, thanks for posting.

It's why he chose Cleveland, obviously.

j/c...

New Browns video production called Sideline to Sideline...

From the article...

Jim Schwartz wants Browns defense to 'bring that swag'

The Browns defense didn't need another reason to talk on the field. However, new defensive coordinator Jim Schwartz provided it by essentially establishing a system that penalizes players for not showing emotion and celebrating big plays.

"It’s the standard, man," Emerson said. "He actually has a system where if you don't celebrate after you make a play or celebrate with your teammate, it's a loaf. So he wanted to celebrate our great plays and just bring that swag and passion to have fun."

There's a viral video on social media showing defensive end Myles Garrett lining up in a two-point stance over the middle of the Bengals offensive line. While Garrett is waiting for the snap, he's clearly mimicking dribbling a basketball between his legs before rushing Burrow at the snap.

Those kinds of things are all part of what Emerson said is a Schwartz defensive mindset.

"Passion, effort and swag," Emerson said. "Three words I can break it down. Passion, effort and swag. That's the idea. Have fun, play fast, play physical, play together."

This talented defense loves them some Jim Schwartz.

It is a cool interview - but I can't decide if Williams is full of bluster and peddling an agenda - or if he's spitting out the unfettered truth. Certainly his comments about Baker being an escape goat was a direct slap at Stefanski. I do believe the comments about reducing the pass protections when he took over and I guess I should go check sack/pressure numbers in those early games after he took over.

The bottom line for Browns 2018 season...

Coach: Hue Jackson (2-5-1) and Gregg Williams (5-3-0)

Obviously the Browns brass were not impressed with Williams as a potential HC who produced winning record...as Williams hinted that the Browns brass, John (Dorsey) and Jim (Haslam) wanted a HC they could control, meaning Williams, who could not be controlled was never going to get the HC job.

This brief look at the inside workings of the 2018 Browns brass is not surprising to me...

I don't think it surprised anybody. Haslam gave Dorsey the reins, and Dorsey is who wanted a yes man. In a way, Haslam was a yes man himself by saying yes to Freddie and not pressing Dorsey on the hire.

Obviously, neither were the 31 other teams in the NFL. His entire NFL career after leaving the Browns consists of being fired after a partial season as the Jets DC.

remember when Williams said he had multiple teams trying to interview him lol

Peen listen for yourself, beginning at the 16:58 mark, Williams notes that there were things going on behind the scenes and he names John (Dorsey) and Jim (Haslam), noting that Jim, the owner, he's involved in all kinds of things.


Link



I believe Williams clearly names TWO individuals who preferred to hire a yes man HC (jmo)

He may have. But again, lots of teams are looking for yes men. It is largely (entirely?) billionaires making hiring decisions. They aren't used to being told no.

To me, it is not hard to believe teams were intrigued by his ability to "turn around" the Browns during his interim HC stint. It is also not a surprise to me that his bluntness didn't go very far with owners.

It is odd how a message like that is received totally dependent upon who it is that made the comment.

That's kinda always how I've felt about him.



Can someone provide a quote of what Williams said, or at least the timestamp of when in the interview he said it? I tried to listen, but could get it to hold my attention.

DT Siaki Ika in a walking boot today - no info on the seriousness of injury.

If it were easy to quote, I would. Dude rambles a bunch of half sentences at that point.

That segment starts at 12:27

He's talking about his impact on the offense during his time as interim HC - talks about reducing the number of pass protection calls, talks about telling Kitchens at the begining of drives when and how far he needs to be to go for it on 4th downs and telling Baker to get rid of the ball faster etc. Then says he loved Baker - the interview asks what went wrong with him in CLE and that's when Williams goes on to say how coaches needed a scape goat and someone to blame. It's a very direct and explicit criticism of Stefanski. There's no other way to interpret it.

He then goes on to talk about Dorsey and Haslam wanting yes men under them. Talks about the hierachy a bit - sugggests that an experienced HC needs to have the GM report to them. Says Podesta is super smart but analytics is just part of the decision making process. He loves Schwartz and couldn't gush over Schwartz enough. Finally says Deshaun needs to get back to being comfortable and be what he was. Says Stefanski needs to identity what Watson can do. A mention of how good Chubb is.

I walked away from that interview with a clear understanding of why Williams is unemployed. He's certainly the type to wear out his welcome quickly and it's hard to believe a word that comes out of his mouth.

Right, and I named both of them. Freddie was Dorseys choice. Jimmy agreed with Dorseys choice.

At least you didn't say something about DePodesta being the Oz behind the curtain, pulling all the levers.

Exactly.

No doubt he can have an abrasive personality. Generally, that isn't a personality that works well in upper management.

Or with people, in general.

Report is Cooper tweaked hamstring at practice and now is questionable for Monday's game.

It's his groin, not his hamstring.

One Year ago, in week number 2

The Browns lost a game that they had won if only the Browns rb had gone down inside the I0, so they could have taken 3 knees b/c the Jets didn't have any timeouts
what happened,

the Browns scored, went up 30 to seventeen? with under 2 min to play in the game,
and the opponent
scored on a long throw,
and recoverd their onside kick
and scored again, both touchdowns to win 3I to 30 over the Browns

to deny the Browns from beginning with a 2 and 0 record, in 2022.

Cooper will be out until after the bye IMO. We will need Tillman, Moore, and DPJ to step up

Coop will be out several weeks? Are you sure about that?

No, that's why I said "IMO" ... he's had soft tissue stuff in the past and we have a week 5 bye, so I'm just doing some math

He certainly wants to take a lot of credit for a lot of stuff. Some of it might be authentic - he has done decently as a disgraced former DC. He did phenominal as an interim HC. The coaches around him as the interim HC have amounted to sweet FA elsewhere - the QB was someone you think poorly of ... so somewhere there is a little kudos earned/due. But yeah - I wouldn't buy a car or house off the guy and would take everything with a grain of salt.

I think he did a really nice job as the interim. We also had a very easy schedule that year. But he did a nice job.

I just don't think his personality is sustainable in an environment over a period of time.

If he was easier to get along with my guess is he would be employed. He's a good DC.

But I listened to that interview and my first thought was I wouldn't enjoy being around that guy.

Like I said. He has an abrasive personality, and that doesn't often work in the top floor offices unless it's "The" office.

j/c

I think his involvement in bounty gate probably made him a tough hire ... and his personality can wear thin, especially without a lot of wins.

Nah. Watching the people sought after and signed to big contracts these days, Bounty Gate was a walk in the park.

every time you see the Whole Browns team dance,
the hopes for the year end, immediately.

Jarvis Landry lead a dance, in 202I?, and then the year went bad,

then tonight,

the all danced,
needlessly, and then...

We will.see if it's true or not...

It almost seems it was going to happen, Hunt turned down some offers I believe

He must of been hoping to come back to the Browns

It's an unfortunate circumstance on how he did, if true

Will wish him the best and hope he can help the team win

I mean, I'm not gonna be mad if we resign Hunt.

A lot worse options and not too many better free ones if any

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-statistical-review-week-2-team-tiers-dropback-outcomes-2023

This has some really interesting charts that paint a very accurate picture of what we've seen in 2 games so far. Very interesting. Having played a Bengals team that didn't seem like they were going at full speed yet and a weak Pit team, I expect the defense to regress a litttle from where they are at the moment statistically and in comp to the rest of the NFL ... but they are definitely a stand out at the moment, rushing and passing.

our defense is dynamite, especially with health at all three levels. I'm not worried about that unit at all, even if there is some regression.

The only thing I'm worried about is health. We started to get really dinged up.

yeah that's going to be an issue for Ward, Delpit, Newsome, etc

well, it's probably all we can do honestly. Nobody else can hit the ground running faster with the offense

I'm glad Hunt is back. I don't know what was going on last year. Dude took a STEEP dive performance-wise. I know he's aged a bit since his rookie year, but I don't think he's got that many miles.

I'm hopeful the extended off-season helped freshen up his legs a little bit. He's (usually) fun to watch on the field and he seems like a really likable dude who's turned his life around.

Hopefully Hunt is in good football shape and ready to go. But I expect him to be idle this week and maybe next, while getting his body ready. I wonder if he will split duties, be RB2, or RB1? I expect Ford to continue getting RB1 carries as he seems to be in the future plans at this point.

If you're actively seeking to be signed in the NFL as a FA one would think he would have kept in shape. I don't think that will be an issue.

there is a huge difference between being in shape and being in "NFL" shape. It will take him a few weeks to get back into NFL shape

I would be willing to wager he doesn't sit out the next two games. They wanted to sign a RB who was ready to roll. If you're interested PM me.

I don't think we need to wager anything. he may be in shape but, he is definitely not in football shape. He will need time to be the best version of himself and get used to contact again. He will be definitively be on a pitch count the first week.

The one thing that stands out to me is just how bad our Passing Offense is given how bad the two Passing Defenses are that we've faced.

looks like I should take that bet LOL

LOL It's like Stefanski took the words right out of my mouth

I would say you're probably right about him having a pitch count for the first week or two.

Hardly any of the players around the league are in football shape

Due to the rule changes that allowed them

Weak practices

Irritates the heck out of me !

Pit ! You ready to roll ?

What jersey number you wearing ?

I can see you tearing it up

Of course he looks in better shape. He has dropped 10 pounds and is down to 206 (he was 216 last year) As I said when we let him go. It looked like he lost a step last year, this is his way of being able to hit the hole quicker.

I wear #73. What number do you wear?

44

I'm following you !

Browns -2.5 this Sunday against the Ravens.

The Browns need to win this game a lot more than it will probably feel like.

some of the keys will be field goals, the field goal kicker, the Browns Field goal kicker and being able to kick field goals.

Another key will be having the better TE on the day, getting better play out of your TE than the ravens get out of their TE's
because it is an AFC North game.

The Ravens WILL limit your number one WR, and throwing will not be for easy completions because,
if anyone has been paying attention or been even
alive for the past 20 years they'll know, the Ravens always do that to the Browns.

the team that wins the AFC North usually has the best TE. more often than usually.

If the Browns lose to the Ravens at home, they likely will not make the playoffs in any way, b/c it will be even more difficult to beat them in the 2nd game, on the road, if you lose to them in the first game, at home, therefore,
you'll likely get swept by the Ravens and be no better than 2 and 3 in your div going into week I8 at cincy and at that point, you'll likely miss the playoffs.

It' would be WAY easier to get the win, this week at home, if trying to keep up in the div. because
the steelers aren't going away as long as the league remains an unfair league.
Which means
The Browns desperately need to win this game just as much as they did need to win the opener, and last week, and week 2.

j/c...

For those who like play breakdowns. This is good.

Aaron Wilson
@AaronWilson_NFL
#Browns to work out offensive tackle Chim Okorafor per a league source
@KPRC2

The Vikings signed him on August 14th and then waved him on August 25th.

The latest issue...

I think the achilles heal on our Browns is the O-line. If we stay relatively healthy we should be OK but any serious injuries and we will be in trouble. JMO

I keep hoping that Wills comes around. I am not seeing it.

It is a shame because he has the physical capability. I don't see the consistent effort. He will win a play. Then look lazy.

Something is missing in him. Overall his weakness is not catastrophic. If he can be average we will be ok.

Agreed Bone. You'd think he would be working hard so he would get a better contract. Doesn't seem to have much incentive.

I'm Glad Wills is the Tackle, b/c he's loads better than Hudson currently.

Better at this point in time, but not loads better.

Dov Kleiman
@NFL_DovKleiman
·
34m
The Lowest QB rating allowed by Safeties in the NFL entering Week 4 (min. 9 targets):

1) #49ers Talanoa Hufanga - 8.3
2) #Browns Grant Delpit - 28.5
3) #Cowboys Jayron Kearse - 35.8
4) #Panthers Vonn Bell - 36.2
5) #Falcons Jessie Bates - 37.5
6) #Bills Micah Hyde - 39.2

Interesting. #s 4 & 5 were the 2 starting safeties the Bengals let go after last season.

Delpit has had a great start to his season.

his whole thing will just be staying healthy

I'm wondering if the Browns should try moving Wills to RT (Natural position) and Jones to LT (Played last year at tOSU)that may solidify the edges better.

...Did Jones play some LT? I don't remember much of it if so. Paris Johnson held down the left side as I recall.

I think more reps where they are at will have better results in the short term (this season.) Preferably with somebody figuring out how to consistently motivate Jed/allow Jed to maintain internal motivation. I do think his issues are more of the yips variety than physical ability. I don't think switching sides would correct that but might just give him one more thing to get lost in his head about.

Kash, I think that ultimately happens. The question is: Is that an in season move or an off season move?
I think we keep the status quo through this season then they flip sides during the off season
Just my speculation

I could be wrong but I am thinking out loud.

RT for a right-handed quarterback was the side that the qb looks as he sets up. The LT was always considered the blind side. So, the better tackle with better technique and pass blocking skills played there. Once at LT the kick foot is your left foot.

The RT everything is reversed. However, today it is about matchups from the defensive side. TJ plays from the right side. Myles moves back and forth.

Both tackle positions today require the same skills. It is a matter of reps and comfort. Wills has the tools to play both positions. The issue is consistency. He is now used to LT. If he remains a Brown. I would guess he remains at LT.

Jones is a new guy. He is proving that pass blocking is his strength. He is learning the running game.

Wills most likely moves on from the Browns. My guess is Jones becomes the LT. He seems to be a quick study. His length and quick feet are a problem for pass rushers.

Hudson will play RT and Jones moves the LT.

I have never understood the RT for a left handed Qb is the same as a LT for a right handed Qb.

Yes, both protect the blindside which is more important because the Qb cannot see the backside rush. However, technique is different. Everything is reversed. You move in opposite directions, 1st step is with the opposite foot, primary punch is with the opposite arm. You can learn to do both but switching should not be considered easy and the ability to do so should not be assumed. Many have been successful but as many or more have failed.

JMO

It's reversed but not different. Still only those with the best skill sets, mobility and footwork will play the OT positions. I certainly do agree with you that success certainly is not insured when you have to retrain a player to play in the opposite direction. Muscle memory is not always so easy to retrain.

But you will always play your most talented OT to protect your QB's blind side whether you have a right handed or left handed QB.

I think Wills will be here next year. Currently, I imagine they'll stay on the sides they are on. A lot can change in a year, though.

I also think Jones' "quick feet" are somewhat misleading. He's being described that way by lots of people. Yet, there's an important caveat that is easy to forget. He has quick feet for his size. We'll see how he holds up as teams get more film on him in this offense. He could keep holding up, but again, we'll see. Sample size still isn't that big for Jones at this level yet, and the line has been "exploited" elsewhere. If those issues get cleaned up, we'll have to see where the next "pressure point" is looked for.

If we're going to be mostly in shotgun, LT and RT distinctions are less important. There isn't as much of a blind side when the "vision cone" starts further back. In some ways, Jones actually creates blind spots with his size, so maybe the "backside"/LT will ultimately be his ideal position.

I also think there's a pretty good group of OTs supposed to be in this upcoming draft, so that will likely be a factor in who ends up where going forward.

Being something of a "mad scientist" type, I actually wouldn't be against moving OL around more so they don't develop a dominant side. That would have to start earlier than mid season and preferably at a lower level of football, though. Training "ambidextrous" OL would allow the offense to potentially exploit matchups in the trenches.

So far Jones has been good in pass protection. It takes time to learn how defenders will come at you. How guys like TJ will set you up for future moves.

Jones does not seem to have a problem staying in front of his man. Using his arm length to keep the defender off him.

I remember when Hubbard played RT against TJ and got ruined. TJ was past him before he moved. Jones having played basketball is used to moving his feet. His upside is really good as a pass blocker.

Run blocking is different. Bodies are moving. You are trying to get to a place. His size may work against him in run blocking.

Usually guards are the guys who pull. Guys who are faster in space.

We know Callahan by reputation. Bitonio as a veteran leader. You would think that Jed is getting plenty of direction. We forget Wills is just 24.

So I am not ready to pull the plug on Jed ---yet.

I think we've all played with those players that get advice, get talked to, are given patience, etc ... have a lot of talent ... but just don't have the fire

Njoku now questionable for tomorrow after suffering burns at home CBS is reporting!

sounds like he'll play

Watson out today with sore shoulder.

The restof the team decided to take the game off as well.

Our OL has gone from elite, to crap.

It would appear that the AFC North has went from elite to crap. PIT (who beat us) loses to Houston. CIN has serious issues right now. Only 1 team in the Division with a winning record.

It's a little scary that our Browns are halfway through their Division games and we're 1-2 in AFC North games and now 1 1/2 games behind the Ravens with them holding the head-to-head Division tiebreaker with the Browns only having 3 Division games left to play (2 of which will be on the road). 23.5% of the season over and sitting in 3rd place.

that's why it was imperative to go 2-1 at minimum ... there's a good chance we can't win the division now. Baltimore has such a head start now

Still trying to find a weekly place for this.

I don't care where you post it as long as you post it. I find it hilarious!

Not that you needed my permission or anything, but these absolutely deserve their own thread.

For whatever reason I have no explanation for. I am losing interest in football.

I start to watch games on Sunday night, Thursday night, and Monday night; I never get very far. I lose interest and thoughts of "I don't care" enter my mind.

I find myself muting the pre-games shows. Thinking what a crock. The games come on and are loaded with commercials. If you can't record and fast forward it becomes nauseating.

All the endless talk shows on football. Everyone's opinions. Everyone is an expert analyst. I mean I like the plays but the rest?

The seasons begin with promise. Then injuries begin. It is almost who will make it to the end? It really bummed me when Nick went down. I knew how much depended upon him. Then DW can't play. After the first series of the second half. I shut it off.

Maybe if had that one magical season I would snap back and become the fan I used to be.

Us older fans are so invested, it sucks, but it is what it is. Rooting for this team under DW feels dirty to me, but I’ve loved them for over 50 years. How are we supposed to feel watching this debacle unfold year after year, endlessly?

I love her videos

im not to that point Bone, but I'm starting to get the "meh' feeling during games. I'll still watch, but I kinda see through it as just entertainment

Yup, pretty jaded about it here, too. I blame getting a business degree. Seeing the financial side of everything kind of sucks. So much money "wasted" on games/sports and entertainment and using sports and entertainment primarily as vessels to sell even more stuff is pretty off putting. Especially when considering good things all that money could go towards and all the problems that could be addressed instead.

...I mean Jed Wills gets paid how much to play like that?

I mean I get up for opening day.

But as the season goes on. It never meets what you want it to be. All I want is one season where we win the division with a record like 14-3. Then dominate through the playoffs and win the Super Bowl. If the next year was the opposite. I would be ok with that.

Sure it would be great to have a dynasty going like the Chiefs. But in football that is really hard to do. You need a great qb and you have to be real lucky with injuries.

I am so sick of firing coaches and starting over. Like the grass is always greener. When in fact it is not. Look at all the new hires that are bombing. Tomlin is a good coach. In Pittsburgh there are plenty who want him gone. You don't look so hot when a qb like Ben hangs it up.
Winning nine games is not going to make people happy.

Losing stinks. Not fun at all. We went 0-16. How can you watch that?

I watched the Braves all year. It has been a blast. Super exciting team to watch. You lose a game. So what. You play tomorrow. If the game is out of hand. You do something else. Football you wait all week. Every game is important. You get ready. And unless you win. It is more like aggravation. When you lose again. You are pissed.

I guess it is just the losing. I don't know how Joe Thomas did it? Losing eats at me.

I am so glad the Braves are good. I love baseball. I know the Braves will continue to be good. They may not win the World Series. But I will be ready for a new season come April.

You guys need a tissue to wipe the tears from your puddlin’ eyes? Maybe need mommy to rub your belly, kiss your boo-boo?

Only joking but stop being such Wendy Whiners. A week ago we were all giddy as heck, except maybe Rish. ;), now some of you are bailing on the season, the game of football, maybe even life itself.

Shaddap with the cry-cry. Our starting QB was out, rookie backup struggled. We’ve got 13 games to go….

I don't find her videos funny whatsoever. Actually, I think they suck quite a bit.

j/c...

Enjoy the process, folks! Results....eh...

Kevin should be feeling the heat ... the GM referring to him as "the coach"

just make a Week 'x' in Review thread, lol... this is the best part of the season, so far.

You're now where I was perhaps four or five years ago.... or, maybe even just a year or two ago. I watch out of habit now, and as nothing but an excuse to stop myself from going out and doing chores on a Sunday. That's it. Even when the team does well, which isn't often, I'm not cheering or gaining extra enjoyment. Mostly, the game is on, but I'm not watching intently. I'm doing other things while it is on.

CleveTA is misconstruing the question.

The question from Grossi was: "If Watson could not even throw the ball all week and DTR was a rookie starting his first game, why were the first scripted plays so pass heavy."

I'm not a Grossi fan but didn't think the question was unreasonable.

Unfortunately, without Chubb, our pass catchers are our best weapons. We don't have an advantage in the running game any more. Nick could make the OL right even when they were wrong. Now, when they are wrong, we're generally losing yardage.

We need to use Moore as strictly a WR IMO. Him behind the line does nothing for us ... let he and Cooper just get open

In theory, it sounds good. In practice, he's not the most QB friendly target and the OL hasn't been holding up for very long. He's been ineffective along the sidelines mostly so far and the middle of the field has been crowded. Yet, he's probably our most dynamic player with the ball in his hands. They're still trying to figure out how best to get him more touches in live games. So far we've found some stuff to cross off the possibilities, or at least clean up a lot first.

I imagine if the OL comes together, he'll catch more passes. It all works together.

yeah I get it ... there are a lot of moving parts .. I think we can really use him on some deep overs or crossers ... and he really excelled with the comeback stuff last year in NY

That's putting it mildly.

lol I still can't fathom it

and it is things like this that aren't Coach or QB that kill us so often.

Yep.

Feel like this graph is somewhat misleading. Separation per route run would be more informative. One blown coverage can skew things a lot if your sample size is only based on targets. Plus, receivers are generally targeted when they are open rather than when tightly covered. I'm also not sure if this is just against man coverage or all coverages. Ability to settle in holes in zone coverage isn't really the same thing as being able to separate against man coverage.

That's not to say that Moore isn't separating well, and he should be used more as a receiver. I'm not sure what this is really telling us, though. He was wide open on a target at some point, but how, why, and how frequently could vary a lot.

DPJ can't separate, but he can catch under duress. Our WR corp is good enough to win. We need our OL/QB play to match it (and yes, our coaching as well)

j/c:

Nick Chubb future status means Browns should trade for Jonathan Taylor

https://dawgpounddaily.com/posts/ni...hould-trade-jonathan-taylor-01hbynay2qr2

I think Moore can be a good player, but we aren't using him right. We keep using him in the role we hoped Schwarz would fill.

Forget all that. Use him as a receiver. If we use him to take a reverse 2-3 more time this season, cool, but lets quit the rinky dink stuff.

I am starting to think Stefansk's idea of offensive football is about 5-10 years in the past.

I think Moore can be a good player, but we aren't using him right. We keep using him in the role we hoped Schwarz would fill.

Forget all that. Use him as a receiver. If we use him to take a reverse 2-3 more time this season, cool, but lets quit the rinky dink stuff.

I am starting to think Stefansk's idea of offensive football is about 5-10 years in the past.

We attack the edges too much and don't attack the middle. Under center, play action pass doesn't work anymore. It's old, and tired. D's figure out how to defend the wishbone. Thay have figured out how to defend what we do.

We have to evolve.

I want to see more of Strong (and Hunt) before I go there....

I think we were putting Moore in the category of Deebo Samuel when really we should be using him as Devonta Smith

He may end up more like Andrew Hawkins than either of those guys.

haha hopefully not on a podcast in 12 months tho

Too late, he's already been on the team produced, "player-led" "Dawgs Only" podcast.

https://www.clevelandbrowns.com/audio/dawgs-only

LOL

Hunt is done and Strong is not a every down back.

JMHO: I think Taylor could still get 100 yards a game.

j/c…

Seriously just shut him down this week against SF. It's not like this team is going to do anything against that machine anyway. But PLEASE do not send out DTR. If Stefanski does that, he should be FIRED immediately after the game ends. Period.

Uh... then who is he sending out? DTR is the backup.

not good

Bitonio, Piocic, ans Njoku as well.

just imagine DTR against San Francisco HAHAHA

If the defense that played the Ravens shows up, it won't matter which QB we trot out there. I don't think either QB is good enough to put up 28 on the 49ers.

no doubt. It would be a 42-0 game

That would be PJ Walker
Currently on our practice squad

What I'm saying is....

So a guy that (IIRC) was available for anyone to sign all off-season and just recently signed to our PS is going to fare so much better than our guy who won the backup job in camp?

That may sound snarkier than I want. I'm just saying that if that's the case then it doesn't reflect too well on a number of things.

Better? Probably not a ton. But we probably don't need to worry as much about potentially "breaking him." Or, at least we don't have as much invested in him if it so happens that he does get broken by the 49ers. Plus, I think PJ Walker is "Temple Tough." (little bit /purple on that last bit)

In his first start, DTR did much more sinking than swimming. Maybe he figured out how to better stay afloat, maybe not. Hard to tell from the outside. If he still isn't ready to swim on his own, we probably shouldn't throw him into the deep end. Probably not the best analogy. Maybe more you have to teach a SERE swimmer (Search and Rescue--already a good swimmer) how to survive in a storm before you can expect them to save other people, too. DTR might still be in that middle phase. Maybe he's figured it out now. Walker might not be as naturally talented, but at least he's been in the league long enough to complete "SERE school."

For the record , I have not weighed in my opinion on the matter of DTR vs Walker.
I was just providing information to answer your question.

Lovely. I don't think that will help the line play better.

Then again, maybe the injury was why it wasn't playing so well in the first place.

my vote would be for Walker

Walker has to be better than DTR right?...Lol!

you would think

Bitonio related is my guess.

Our OL has quickly gone from a strength to a concern. Maybe having a better LT fixes the issues of our interior play, but I don't know

Not good news when you’re retooling the OLine during the season. We knew Wills wasn’t playing well last season. We knew Conklin is injury prone yet we didn’t try to get any veteran players to back them up. We didn’t pay as much attention to the OLine this season the way we didn’t address the DLine the previous offseason. Same mistake but at a different position group. Not good!!!

The problem last year was that our starters on the (interior) DL were bad. On the other hand, this season we have about the most expensive OL in the league, and on paper it was good. Unlike DL, who rotate players through, you want your OL to be the same 5 guys the whole season through.

Doesn't really seem like the same mistake to me.

Unfortunately, there aren't Pro Bowl linemen sitting around wanting to be underpaid Browns backups. We drafted 2 OL and brought in a former 1st rounder as a project on the PS. We kept last year's projected starting center as a backup. Injuries happen, and there aren't enough good OLinemen for some teams to even have decent starters. There's only so much teams can do. Good OL are hard to find. Frankly, the job kind of sucks. Put at a disadvantage on most plays, and mostly only get your name called when something goes wrong.

as we see around the NFL, you have no team if your lines are bad ... last year our DL was bad, and this year our OL is bad

I don't think they are bad but I don't think they are healthy.

We lost Conklin.
Bitonio is on crutches and who knows if its been something beyond just a week that he has been dealing with it.
Piocic has been battling an injury and left a game (more than once?)
Who knows....maybe Teller is still dealing with something from his injury last year??

If Bitonio doesn't go Sunday, would Nick Harris go in? Michael Dunn?

I would prefer Dunn to Harris .. but, obviously neither is good against SF lol

LOL, surely you jest! The biggest glaring weakness on the o-line is Wills and has been Wills for the last 3 seasons (current included). Bitonio, in his defense, spends half his time covering for Wills so Watson doesn't get broke in two.

There are clearly other issues with the offense besides just the line. First and foremost, the Browns continue to award contracts to players underserving. Secondly, after 4-games and nearly 25% of the season gone, the Browns have players performing at the bottom of the league for their position.

Just a snapshot of how some are playing thru 5 weeks of the season:

LT Wills, 45.4 PFF Grade, Rank of 66th out of 72 tackles ranked - just given his 5th year option fully guaranteed of 14.124M.
TE Njoku, 56.2 PFF Grade, Rank of 40th out of 68 TE's ranked - given a new contract that pays him a APY of $13,687,500
TE Bryant, 61.1 PFF Grade, Rank of 31st out of 68 TE's ranked - final year of contract 1.010M (outperforming Njoku and making 12.6M less)
WR Moore, 59.1 PFF Grade, Rank of 75th out of 110 WR's ranked
WR DPJ, 52.8 PFF Grade, Rank of 97th out of 110 WR's ranked - final year of contract
QB Watson, 68.7 PFF Grade, Rank of 18th out of 33 QB's ranked - 46M per season
RB Ford, 64.8 PFF Grade, Rank of 33rd out of 53 RB's ranked 

None of the above players are playing close to the level of expectation. Some of these players have multiple seasons of underperformance like the above.

Add in the fact that Bitonio, Teller, Cooper have slipped some from their normal grades - we have a rookie RT trying to fill some pretty big shoes on the OL - the Browns have an offense that is grossly underachieving. There's more wrong with the offense than some will admit and let's not forget that Stefanski has a whole lot to do with this underachievement and the old "Kubiak Offense" he continues to deploy.

well I think he's insinuating that Bitonio is injured

I was just going to let him run with it. He put a lot of time into that post!

Yea, I missed that and it certainly is very bad news if Bitonio is out. My bad, but it still doesn't change anything with Wills. I wonder if these o-line issues have anything to do with Watson not practicing, hmmmm.

It's more about looking to trade FOR a lineman. Not trade one.

j/c...

was the bruised rotator cuff reported last week? it seems like the phrase "rotator cuff" has suddenly been included

I don't believe so. Seems like some strange injury reports this year around the league.

The specifics as to what his injury was didn't seem to be reported last week as far as I know. Now it has been. Not everything is a conspiracy theory. Well I guess these days it is. But not every conspiracy theory has merit.

Last week they reported fluid around the rotator cuff.

During the CBS broadcast of the game, Evan Washburn reported that Watson told him he had fluid buildup around his rotator cuff making it painful to drive the ball.

The Browns organization never mentioned rotator cuff, they only said shoulder bruise/contusion.

Okay thanks guys ... I didn't remember

j/c...

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